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'Up with Steve Kornacki' for Saturday, October 31st, 2015

Read the transcript to the Saturday show

Date: October 31, 2015
Guest: Michael Kay, John Goglia, Anthony Roman, Tara Dowdell, Sahil Kapur,
Robert Traynham, Dan Cantor, Gordon Chang, Richard Murphy, Stephanie Minor,
Jorge Elorza


RICHARD LUI, MSNBC ANCHOR: Plane crash in Egypt.

A very good morning to you. Thanks for getting UP with us this morning,
I`m Richard Lui. I want to start the hour with some breaking news, a
Russian plane carrying more than 200 people which we have been watching for
you here on MSNBC on this Saturday morning. And it`s crash in Egypt`s
Sinai Peninsula in an area in which Egyptian security forces have been
battling Islamic militants. Let`s first get the very latest on what we
know about this aircraft.

Let me go right to NBC`s Ron Mott in London with the very latest
information on that. Ron?

RON MOTT, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Richard, good morning. Russian air
carrier Metrojet Flight 9268 I should mention crashed after disappearing
from radar this morning. We should tell you that Russian President
Vladimir Putin is declaring tomorrow, November 1st a national day of
mourning in that country. And the flight was bound for St. Petersburg in
Russia after departing the Egyptian resort city of Sharm El Sheikh. Radar
contact with the fight as lost 23 minutes after departure. And the plane
ultimately went down in the Northern Sinai Peninsula of Egypt which I
should mention Richard has been the scene of clashes between terrorists
groups and the Egyptian military.

There is no official suggestion or confirmation that anything sinistered
(ph) happened here can emphasize that enough according to flight radar 24.
The plane was descending at a rate about 6,000 feet a minute when it`s
radar signal was lost and had slowed dramatically from 400 plus knots down
to about 62, that is very, very slow for a plane of that size. The
Associated Press is quoting an Egyptian aviation, official is saying the
pilot made a distress call and reporting some sort of a technical problem
and announced an intentions to land at a nearest airport.

The plane was carrying a total of 224 people, 217 passengers and seven crew
members and NBC News has learned that 17 of those 217 passengers were
children. Egyptian officials say, 45 to 50 ambulances were dispatched to
the crash scene as there have been some unconfirmed reports about the
possibility of survivors. And we have not seen anything official this
morning Richard suggesting that there are in fact survivors. We do know
from Reuters, Reuters is reporting that search and rescue teams on to the
ground have confirmed 100 plus bodies have been recovered including five
children. Now this morning families of passengers of Metrojet 9268 are
gathering at the airport there at St. Petersburg as we mentioned Russian
President Putin declaring tomorrow, you know, a national day of mourning
there children as we latest hear from London. Back to you.

LUI: Ron, as we know, it is about 2:00 in the afternoon there in the area
of Sharm El Sheikh as well as in Russia, the area which you`re talking
about. You`ve been watching this story overnight and the information that
has been coming in over the last several hours, how has that changed and we
have also heard about, this is a very common route, similar to I guess in
the U.S. and the eastern seaboard when it gets cold and you go down to
Florida, this is what many Russians do do in Sharm El Sheikh.

MOTT: Right. Yes. We suspect that many if not most of those passengers
were in fact returning home from a vacation there in Sharm El Sheikh as a
very popular tourist`s destination for Russians there when they boarded
this flight. Now, we understand as well that President Putin is sending
down his emergency officials to get to the crash site immediately. He also
say that his minister, emergency minister will coordinate the search and
rescue there and obviously there`s going to be a lot of questions about
this plane. It`s a very reliable plane. The airbus A321 about 18 years
old. According to flight, the radar 24, that is not very old in terms of
aircraft that are flying commercially around the country. Now, we also
have heard some unconfirmed reports about the black boxes being recovered,
we don`t have any official --

LUI: -- confirmation about that. But there will be a lot of information
that investigators can glean from that. But I am looking at the -- and
have been looking at for the last hours. So, Richard this radar returns,
this flight radar 24 and again as we suggest the airspeed dropped
dramatically, so we don`t really know what that means. But this plane was
level just under 31,000 feet when something went wrong.

Sticking with the data, we know, thank you so much. NBC`s Ron Mott, I
appreciate that.

Joining us now here at the table, former British senior officer and pilot
Michael Kay. We also have with us, former NTSB board member John Goglia.
And Anthony Roman, CEO and founder of Roman and Associates and
Investigation and Risk Management team. I start with you. First here,
Anthony, the speed that Ron Mott was talking about decreasing, what`s your
thought if the data turns out to be true from flight radar 24?

to be true, it would indicate that they were having extreme difficulty
controlling this aircraft. Even in a descent. The normal profile in a
descent is to raise the attitude of the aircraft, raise the nose up a
little bit so that the airspeed does not increase as the airplane is
descending. But to have the airspeed that low --

LUI: Right.

ROMAN: -- would indicate perhaps a stall configuration or some other
problem in controlling the plane.

LUI: Mike, you`re a pilot. When we get this data of the flight decreasing
in speed, perhaps losing altitude 6,000 feet per minute, if that turns out
to be true, in what situation would a plane be doing that?

any pilot or crew has during emergency is to aviate, navigate communicate
which is flood the airplane then the co-pilot would look for the nearest
diversion. And then one of the crew would put out a distress call. That
could be a pan call which would indicate an emergency, it could be a midday
call which would indicate a very, very serious emergency. So, that would
be the first thing. We knew, our reports indicate that the (INAUDIBLE)
from Sharm El Sheik. He reported that he had technical problems. If we
look on the map, a closer a bit to the Sinai, we knew from flight radar 24
that the track of the aircraft, on the eastern side of the Peninsula.

LUI: Right.

KAY: And then came left up into the center of the Sinai Peninsula --

LUI: Right.

KAY: -- climbing to 31,000 feet.

LUI: Yes.

KAY: And then we know that all the reports certainly indicate that the
pilots put out a call to Arish which is a small town on the northern part
of the Peninsula, just on the Mediterranean and was attempting to make a
diversion landing into that. And it was between those technical problems
being put out on the radio transmission. The kink left at 31,000 feet and
then the descent that appears to have come to sort of a problem.

LUI: North Northeast and then turned North Northwest. And it seems like
it was going to do what it did probably every day as that flight did, and
then we have at least reports of that call for help.

KAY: Yes. I mean, certainly if you look at the pattern on flight radar
24, it seems to have been following a normal path to -- the airway, to take
it out over the Mediterranean, talk to (INAUDIBLE) and then going up north
to Turkey. I think the interesting point for me is that, if I was a pilot
and I had a very serious problem. I would be putting out a mayday pretty
much straight away. And then I`d be looking to divert that aircraft back
into Sharm El Sheik --

LUI: Uh-hm.

KAY: -- depending if I had the guidelines or putting it to Cairo
International. So, for me, it seems sort of like the reports indicates
that there was a technical problem, but it wasn`t serious enough to either
put out a mayday call or to turn a 180 about and comeback into Sharm and
going to Cairo. And then possibly the problem may have escalated into
something a little bit more disastrous.

LUI: So, John, the National Transportation Safety Board, former board
member, a board member, excuse me. And when you look at the data, because
all we have got is that at around 28 to 31,000 feet, at least from flight
radar 24, and we have seen at least in the last the 20 seconds according to
them, a lot of deviation in terms of speed as well as altitude. What are
you looking at right now? And we`re just hours into this, as have been

JOHN GOGLIA, FORMER NTSB BOARD MEMBER: Well, the speed has certainly been
called into question as an aerodynamic stall. The airplane didn`t have
enough speed to keep itself in the air. So, why did we get into that mode?

LUI: What could have been the causes?

GOGLIA: Well, we have an air dynamic stall in Air France. We have pilot
error in that case. We can`t rule it out at this point in time. So,
that`s the possibility, the fact that it`s climbing and diving a little bit
if that`s accurate is going to change that some.

LUI: An Air France was different though because that was at least the
reports were in the middle of the storm, the P2 tubes got clogged. It
didn`t know the speed, it didn`t know its height. So, in this case, at
least there are early weather indications, that doesn`t appear to be
perhaps the same condition.

GOGLIA: Well, we still could have problems with the crew or with the
instrumentation on the airplane.

LUI: Talk about the instrumentation and the crew what you might be looking

GOGLIA: Well, we have multiple computers that fly this airplane.

LUI: Right. It`s a fly by wire, one of the very first planes to do that.

GOGLIA: Right. It`s been refined in great deals since the very beginning.

LUI: Right.

GOGLIA: So, it`s a very reliable platform, as you said from the beginning
of the show.

LUI: Right.

GOGLIA: So, it`s right now the airplane itself is low on the list of

LUI: Looking itself. At least from your perspective as a former NTSB
board member. And then Anthony, when we look at the age of this -- the
flight safety organization which just been around for decades tracks these
sorts of things. And they were saying that this particular tail number may
be as old as 18 years or so. That`s not necessarily old in this industry.
This plane, if you get on a Southwest Airlines flight here in the United
States, that`s most likely a Boeing 737. The equivalent popular plane used
throughout the word is this air frame which is A-320, this is a very
popular plane that has a great safety record.

ROMAN: And let me preface what I`m going to say by concluding. It is a
very, very safe aircraft. But it is a very complex aircraft. And all
aircraft have histories of some mechanical anomalies, electrical anomalies
or -- anomalies. And in this particular case the airbus A-320 has had its
share of series of incidents and accidents as a result of problems. For
example, the FAA in 2013 issued an airworthiness directive for cracks
around the cockpit windows which could cause an insidious depressurization
or in worst case scenario an explosive depressurization. They`ve also had
some problem with their fly by wire system. Now I`m a software designer as
well as a commercial pilot and investigator. Now all computers simply have
computer code in them. And when programmers are programming that computer
code, they do make a series of errors every now and then.

LUI: Right.

ROMAN: We know them as bugs, glitches and they`re very, very annoying.
But in aircraft, it is a very dangerous thing that can happen.

LUI: Those orange boxes will be key to all of this. Well, they`ll not be
because they`ll give us a lot of information that will tell us what
happened in those final minutes as we walk up. I just want to update all
three of you as well and those who maybe joining us just now. Egyptian
officials now saying there are and they`re reporting, Egyptian officials,
there are no survivors and of course NBC News will work to confirm that and
we`ll have the very latest here. We of course will be talking about this
throughout the hour, I want to thank all three of you for stopping by at
the top here. Michael Kay, John Goglia, Anthony Roman. Stick around, I
know we`ll be talking to you throughout this morning on a Saturday. I
appreciate it.

We`ll stay on top of this story as I was saying all morning. Coming up
next for you, Republicans rumble in Iowa today, the last big cattle call
before the caucuses.


LUI: Well, the final Republican cattle call before the Iowa caucuses is
just set to begin in just a few hours. Ten of the 14 Republican candidates
will attend the Iowa GOP`s growth and opportunity forum today in Des
Moines. But the two candidates leaving the state polls. Ben Carson and
Donald Trump, they`re not going to be there.

For more, we have MSNBC political correspondent Kasie Hunt live from Des
Moines this morning. They`re not going to be there. This is the last deal
as we were just saying here Kasie, what`s the thought behind that?

from these caucuses, Richard, and they are leading in the polls, so Trump
and Carson have held their own separate events in Iowa, there is some
argument behind the scenes that standing up on stage with the entire field
sometimes, you know, wraps you into something that you don`t necessarily
want to be brought down by some of these other people in the field, Trump
had two rallies in Iowa earlier in the week. So, this is going to be a
little bit more on the fun side, there`s booth set up inside. Marco Rubio
has a place where you can play cornhole, it`s a tailgating team, he`s going
to be serving bear as the Des Moines Register reported. So, it should be
an interesting day with the ten candidates who are here.

LUI: Cornhole as you and I both know a real favorite there in the Midwest,
does something that you and I may have both learned to do well in Michigan
at some point. But they`ll be doing that while another billionaire, let`s
talk about another billionaire for a second, Paul Singer, signing up behind
Marco Rubio, maybe they`ll be throwing around bean bags full of dollar
bills or gold at this moment because Paul Singer is now going to be backing

HUNT: This first major peace of fallout from this Republican debate where
Rubio really stood out and where Bush struggled. And where Paul Singer is
a very well-known New York financier bundler investor who has spent a lot
of time both giving his own money but also wrapping together contributions
from utterers. For many of these politicians for many years and he`s
somebody that was assiduously courted by the Bush campaign and by the Rubio
campaign. And he had been said to be considering both of them up until
this point. He had been leaning towards Rubio anyway.

But that debate performance from Bush made it clear that this was the time
to come out publicly for him for Rubio and he wrote a letter to his network
making the argument that Rubio is the best position both to lead the
country in foreign affairs due to his experience on the Senate Intelligence
Committee and also domestically because of the way he talks about domestic
issues and the way his message seems optimistic. So, it`s really a
significant blow to the Bush operation and it`s yet another sign of the
tension between the two of them and the way in which it`s shifting from
mentor to protege here, Richard.

LUI: MSNBC`s Kasie Hunt there for us in Iowa at 7:00 in the morning.
Thank you so much for that, Casey.

All right. Let`s get over to the numbers, we have a new NBC News online
poll conducted by Survey Monkey. It shows a tie between Donald Trump and
Ben Carson at 26 percent support nationally. Senator Ted Cruz jumps to
third place with ten percent hits the double digits. Twenty four percent
of the Republican voters polled believe that Cruz did the best job in this
week`s debate. Twenty percent believe the same of Senator Marco Rubio.
While 38 percent of those polled believe Jeb Bush displayed the worst

Let`s get into that to our panel. We`re joined by Democratic strategist
Tara Dowdell. Bloomberg Politics Sahil Kapur. And former Bush/Cheney
senior advisor and MSNBC contributor Robert Traynham. Since Robert flew in
from London --


Shall we let him go first on this?


LUI: You`re very, very vibrant as always here Mr. Traynham. So Paul
Singer, billionaire, certainly means a lot to the Rubio campaign. Bush,
who theoretically one would think well financed based on its connections
and family, is this more symbolic than it really is actual?

TRAYNHAM: I think it`s both. Look, you just said it very well, Richard.
And that is that the Bush campaign raised $115 million. Six months ago we
had the shock in all presentation by them. They sucked up all the money a
couple of months ago and the reason why is because of the name and because
of the network.

LUI: Right.

TRAYNHAM: What we now see because of Jeb Bush`s unfortunate performance
early this week is that there will be a dry up in funds. He`s laying off
staff, he`s reshipping a lot of folks. And what`s going to happen is, is
that people are going to say, this is kind of a bad investment here. And
so therefore I`m not going to give money right now. So I think what`s
going to happen over the next two months is that we`re going to see a huge,
huge dip in Bush`s fundraising. So possibly going to Marco Rubio is very
big symbolically.

LUI: All right. So we`re talking about a cattle call in Iowa here Tara,
so the question might be, money following talent, right? Because now that
Rubio has the backing of Paul Singer the billionaire and who knows whether
Shelley Ounce (ph) and Mike Quinn (ph) because we`re talking about that
what about a month ago. Now when we see the talent that Rubio needs to
really breakthrough in a way since he had what many have called a great
performance during the debate.

TARA DOWDELL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, campaign staffers certainly
look for a paycheck so I would imagine that some of the more talented
operatives would start to gravitate to his campaign. Particularly given
the fact that there are a lot of people because of people that have already
dropped out of the Republican race. Those staffers -- some of those
staffers are freed up and still looking. So, you have that dynamic. I
think for Rubio though, he benefits from these endorsement because it is an
endorsement. It`s a financial endorsement and it`s a public endorsement.

LUI: And a real endorsement to the pocketbook. Yes.

DOWDELL: And a real endorsement. Exactly. So what happens is, he`s also
getting earned media from this. So he had that very strong debate
performance, because he`s very quick on his feet, he benefitted from that.

LUI: Right. And then he moves into now this publicity of this major donor
now saying that he`s going to throw his heft behind Rubio. So, you`re
going to see I think more donors start to shift in his direction as well.

SAHIL KAPUR, BLOOMBERG POLITICS: It`s a sign of the winds changing I think
in a major way in the republican establishment. Bush came in as we
discussed in the beginning in January. He actually started revealing in
December with sky high expectations, a hundred million dollars in the
campaign war chest. He was supposed to be the man to beat and he was for a
long time. But now he`s in a bit of a death spiral where, you know, he
hasn`t been performing as well in debates and hasn`t been kind of getting
the traction he needs on the campaign trail. Donors are getting a little
jittery and he`s had to hold two meetings in just the last week reassuring
them that things are going okay, don`t runaway just yet.


It`s very important thing to know is that the Republican subs and the
Republican elites who want to win look at Marco Rubio as the best person to
contrast with Hillary Clinton, he accentuates his weaknesses as someone who
is young, who is charismatic, who is Hispanic, who looks like the future
and the fears that Jeb Bush neutralizes her weaknesses because he carries
the baggage, he carries the family name and less popular family name.

TRAYNHAM: But the most fascinating about all of this, you know in the
eight hour flight back from the UK --

LUI: You had some time to think.

TRAYNHAM: I actually watched the debates twice, and Marco Rubio was not
actually substantive in the debate, he was energetic, he was very forward
thinking he was very upbeat, but he wasn`t very substantive. But that says
a lot about the republican electorate right now, they want a winner. They
want -- that`s positive. And I think that`s why it speaks to a Donald
Trump and also to Ben Carson. They`re not very substantive. Let`s be
honest about that.


TRAYNHAM: And so the reality is that Jeb Bush -- and I disagree with Tara
just a little bit here. And that is that, look, campaign operatives, I was
one of them for many, many years. But they want to believe in someone,
they`re willing to kind of paycheck or not to get a paycheck where they
need a vision there for someone, and Jeb Bush does not inspire that right

DOWDELL: I was a staffer too. And they`re certainly -- those of us who do
want to support and have a vision. But there are other people who are in
it for the money. Let`s be very clear.


LUI: Right.

DOWDELL: But what I would say that with Jeb Bush, the problem is for him
is that he never had the base of support. He was booed by the money. He
was booed by the establishment support. The base had never been with Jeb
Bush. So even if you take these poor debate performances, they have hurt
him more, but his support was never that strong to begin with. And that`s
a bigger problem for him.

KAPUR: The harshest thing I`ve heard said about Jeb Bush came from one of
President Obama`s former staff -- he`s essentially Jim Gilmore with a
famous last name. That might be a little too rough. But, you know, some -
- remember the last time he ran for office, Facebook, Twitter and YouTube
didn`t exist and the fear is that he might be, you know, he might be a bit
rusty and not be used to politics in the modern with the way as Marco

TRAYNHAM: There`s no fight in the game. There`s no fire in the belly.
Jeb Bush right now does not inspire his individuals. Look, I hate to hit
the rewind button here, $115 million during the primary. People were
inspired by him six months ago, in fact why would you give the money to

DOWDELL: The activists in the base.

TRAYNHAM: If you take a look at the FEC numbers over the months ago, those
were the activists, those were the grass tops people.

LUI: All right. Robert, you`re running the show now. I love this.
Robert, thank you. Tara as well, thank you so much. And I also appreciate
your time here today Sahil. And we`ll talk to you guys against soon. No
doubt. What`s on the ballot for this Tuesday, we`ll fill you in on what to
expect on Election Day 2015. And next, we`re learning more details about
the Russian Airliner that crashed over the Sinai Peninsula. We`ve got all
that this morning. Stay with us.


LUI: We`re going to update you right now on the breaking news that we have
been following this morning that Russian playing with more than 200 people
onboard has crashed on Egypt Sinai Peninsula. And Egyptian officials now
reporting there were no survivors who just learned that within the last 30
minutes again. Egyptian officials saying no survivors.

NBC`s Ron Mott has been following this flight and the latest details all
morning for us from London. And let`s start with that because Ron, as we
know, there in Russia, and most of those passengers were from Russia are
watching the reports on television, in Russia, they don`t want to hear

MOTT: They certainly don`t, I mean this is a heartbreaking day for all
those families. In fact President Vladimir Putin is asking that the nation
join him and the rest of the government tomorrow for day of mourning now
that we have learned that there are no survivors in this crash. There was
some hope earlier because there were some unconfirmed reports that there
may have been voices, the first search and rescue force that got there on
the scene claimed that they heard voices there. And so as a result, there
were some close to four dozen ambulances dispatched to that area.

But if the reports is true now that is confirmed that there are no
survivors of this crash, there`s a lot of question obviously they`re going
to go into this particularly, this particular airline. It`s a very small
carrier, a value, a -- carrier if you will operating out of Russia and this
flight was heading up to to St. Petersburg again and did not make it very
far out of Sharm El Sheik this morning when they disappeared off a radar.
And Richard a lot of questions about the flight data returns that we have
been able to download from flight radar 24 that shows that something
happened just under, looks like they were at level fly just turned at
21,000 feet when something happened. They descended that at a very rapid

Six thousand feet per minute over the next 20 or 30 seconds before losing
radar contact. And then obviously the plane crashing in that hostile area
in that Sinai, Peninsula where Egyptian military and tourists have clashed
overtime including a pretty big clash this summer. So, there`s a sad news,
indeed. We`ve seen some pictures on social media and family members
comforting one another in the airport there in St. Petersburg but a lot of
questions to get answer here as to exactly what happened here. We do
understand according to the Associated Press that the pilot did in fact
made a distress call recording some sort of technical problem now with the
aircraft and indicated his intention to try to bring the aircraft down at
the nearest airport. We were told that that would have been Cairo, but
looking at the radar returns, the last radar returns it seems that the
plane stayed in a northwardly heading and never made a u-turn as it were.
So, that`s the latest here from London. Obviously there`s a lot to be
learned here in the next day or days there in Egypt.

LUI: Okay. Thank you so much. In Egypt right now, 2:30 in the afternoon
local time. Ron Mott with the very latest.

And again, if you`re just joining us, the information we`re getting from
Egyptian officials there reporting, no survivors in this flight. And of
course, we will continue with the data coming out of Russia from Ron Mott
and he`ll bring that to us when he does get it.

And now, I`d like to bring on the phone with us, former NTSB board member
Kitty Higgins. So, that`s the information we`re getting right now Kitty is
that they`re reporting no survivors but this is early.

KITTY HIGGINS, FORMER NTSB BOARD MEMBER (on the phone): Right. It`s very
early in the investigation, the good news if there`s can be any good news
in this kind of tragic accent is that they`ve located a wreckage, they`ve
located it very quickly -- thanks to the data that was available. They are
getting reports of the pilots need to land. There are -- they would have
teams on the ground as I understand it. There seems to be good cooperation
so far between the Egyptian government and the Russian government who will
-- to lead here. They will recover the black boxes. So, we should know
very soon what actually happened and what the cause and effect there was.
And it will take a while to get those leads up in those boxes. But the
good news is that there are resources that planes look at it, that
certainly hastily the ability to make some conclusions.

LUI: So, Kitty you`re hitting on what we have heard so far. What we are
getting in from those who followed information like flight radar 24, flight
to where, and the data that comes in from them. The black boxes as orange
flashing boxes. Hopefully they`re out there right now and that can be
found and we`ll look for data. So, that`s key based on what we know.
You`re looking at perhaps the input of what humans did in the situation.
The pilots or others, you`re looking at the mechanical and in third,
perhaps ill intent. And as you look at all three of those potentials and
there are obviously could be more. What are you thinking as an NTSB

HIGGINS: Well, again, the first rule aboard is to not jump to any
conclusions until you actually have the information that`s available. But
the investigators will look at the weather which has not seen to be a
factor. They will look at the mechanical record of this aircraft, there
maybe questions there in terms of how, not only how it was constructed.

LUI: Right.

HIGGINS: And this is a very -- as to how it was maintained. They will
look at the training of the pilots, their experience, and any other factors
that would likely have contributed to this factor.

LUI: Well, and on that Kitty, if you can very quickly, what are the
processes there in Russia that are different from the way we are used to
hear in the United States, the NTSB, the FAA, overseeing the way pilots are
trained as well as the way that aircraft are maintained. What`s the

HIGGINS: Well, I am not perfectly familiar with how the Russian approach.
But let me just say that there are international protocols to the
International Aviation Organization that really are the guidelines and the
-- for how these kinds of everything that happens in the aviation industry.
It really is why the aviation -- because the country have -- adopted, the
practices and protocols that have proven to be appropriate over all these
years. And so, I think in terms of -- again, you see this cooperation
coming together in terms of this investigation. So, I can`t see
specifically to the Russian program. I can`t tell you that the
international standards are followed by Egypt. They`re followed by Russia.
They`re followed by most countries around the world.

LUI: And those are some -- FAA and NTSB regulations.


LUI: Okay.

HIGGINS: We are part of that.

LUI: Okay. Correct. Kitty Higgins, very informative. Thank you so much,
former NTSB board member, I appreciate it.

HIGGINS: Thank you.

LUI: And of course stay with us right here on MSNBC. We`ll continue to
follow what is happening there with that Metrojets crash and we`ll have the
very latest. We`ll be checking in about the next 10 or 15 minutes, Ron
Mott of course reporting for us from London as well.

Next, Election Day just three days away. We`ll take a look at what is at
stake across the country.


LUI: With all the drama around the presidential race this week, it might
be easy to forget. You know, there is another election going on right now.
One just three days away that we`re watching. Motor in four states will
choose control of their state governments. Louisiana, follow suit later
this month. Republicans head into the election with an overwhelming
advantage at the state level. They have the total control of state
governments. In 24 states compared to just seven for Democrats. Facing
this tough legislative terrain, progressives are turning to the ballots
putting their issues directly to the voters and states across the country.
Ohio for instance will vote whether to legalize marijuana, Houston will
vote on a ban on LGBT discrimination. Portland, Maine and Tacoma,
Washington will vote on a $15 minimum wage.

So will this valid initiative strategy work for progressives on Tuesday
joining us right now, Working Families Party National Director Dan Cantor.
Dan, this is just some of what`s being decided across to the country. And
it would appear that, you know, we were talking a second ago and it looks
like those progressives out there pushing these initiatives will get some
voters to register and get out to vote.

initiatives call that way because citizens initiate what the questions they
want to put before their fellow voters are always to sort of motivate the
citizenry to turn out. There are also, you should back up and understand
why people do it in the first place, it`s because state governments are
seen as corrupt or greedy or sluggish, nothing`s happening in Washington.

LUI: California, a good example of that.

CANTOR: So we want to put before the voters, what should the minimum wage?

LUI: Right.

CANTOR: Marijuana decriminalization about mass incarceration, that`s what
started. How many black and brown people do we actually want to lock up in
the country? So, do we want to ban fracking, and to do something about
climate? That`s what initiatives are about? It gives the voters a chance
to say eventhough our elected leaders --

LUI: Right.

CANTOR: -- are controlled by money, we`re going to take these topics on

LUI: So, if all these were in California, they will pass by the way.
Because initiatives just work on that state.

CANTOR: That`s not true. Only about 40 percent of initiatives pass
overall, even in California, some of them go down.

LUI: So, that`s the question. How are we going to do?

CANTOR: You know, it depends. I don`t know what`s going on in the
campaigns in those places. Minimum wage initiatives around the country
have -- done pretty well. Marijuana decriminalization pretty well.
Fracking bans quite well. So, you know, what has to be somewhat
optimistic, the big fight will be next year, when there`s state wide
initiatives. Not just the city ones. The city ones are quite important.
You can do this in about 24 states. But in more cities allowed citizens to
do this. But it`s really to be, you know, it`s not like it does away with
the need for governments and legislators to be more responsive. So, this
is good that people are doing it and trying to make policy themselves.
It`s a shame that money limits politics and limits political discourse,
this is a way to get outside the limits of the political discourse.


KAPUR: This is a bit of a way rare bright spot for Democrats. They have
been decimated on the state level no doubt. In the last five or six years,
but even in 2014, when the Republicans won broadly across the country, that
is to control the Senate as well. A number of progressive ballot
initiatives including in red states won. You had a number of states --
minimum wage. You had same-sex marriage legalized in a number of states.
Of course the Supreme Court legalized it everywhere now. Marijuana was
legalized in two states. So, you know, progressives do have demonstrated
an ability to get some progressive ballot initiatives through even in red

DOWDELL: And there were some ballot initiatives that sort of forced the
hand of republican government as well. State legislators to make moves on
those issues to avoid having a ballot initiatives that might actually have
even a greater impact, or bigger effect. So, the ballot initiatives are
very powerful tool. I would say, you have seen on the right that they`ve
been used very effectively as well. And so, we`re starting to see the Left
now take on these initiatives and to push these initiatives and to use them
to motivate voters but also to move policy, very important policy agenda

TRAYNHAM: And then the questions become is, can that state power if you
will translate to the federal level. Because, look at the end of the day -

LUI: Right.

TRAYNHAM: -- voters -- table, I assume that one of the reasons why you want
to register these individuals is clearly the vote on the issues that`s on
the table. But also hopefully that same sense of passion will translate to
running for president. And so, that`s really the real question. We saw
that in 2004 with same sex marriage on the ballot in Ohio.

LUI: Right.

TRAYNHAM: George W. Bush won by 100,000 votes. So, there`s a translation

LUI: Dan, final word to you on this. So, what do you think what it says
about 2016. What does this say about both parties nationally?

CANTOR: These ideas are very popular with voters, if the Democrats really
run on $15 and as the fast food workers have put forward, they`ll do very

LUI: Dan Cantor, thank you so much. I appreciate that. My thanks to you
for coming by on this morning. And have a doughnut by the way.

All right. They do. All right. Just ahead for you right here on UP.
U.S. boots on the ground in Syria. We have the details and the major
change in U.S. policy. We`ll get the view from our panel here.

Next Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders they all square off on a brand-new
issue this election season, we`ll also talk about that.


LUI: If you`re just joining us here on MSNBC, we`ve got some breaking news
that we`ve been following, this morning, Russian plane with 224 people on
board has crashed in Egypt`s Sinai Peninsula. Egyptian officials saying
just this hour, no survivors, we`ll have much more on this story throughout
the morning as we continue to monitor that coming out of Sharm El-Sheik in
the Sinai Peninsula. That plane headed to Russia. But we`re going to
switch gears at this moment, the democratic primary entering new territory
this week. Hillary Clinton fielding a question about her position on the
death penalty for the first time this election season. Take a listen.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a lot of evidence now
that the death penalty has been too frequently applied and very
unfortunately often times in a discriminatory way. So I think we have to
take a hard look at it and a lot of states are doing that. I do not favor
abolishing however because I think there are certain egregious cases that
still deserve the consideration of the death penalty but I would like to
see those be very limited and rare.


LUI: Now, Bernie Sanders wasted no time in drawing a clear distinction of
that with the democrat frontrunner.


western industrialized country has chosen to end capital punishment. I
would rather have our country stand side by side with European democracies
rather than with countries like China, Iran, Saudi Arabia and others who
maintain the death penalty.


LUI: Other democratic presidential candidate, former Governor Martin
O`Malley also calling for an end to the federal death penalty. He
abolished that in Maryland in 2013. Now capital punishment has come under
increasing scrutiny in the wake of batch executions in the shorter --
drugs. Two Supreme Court justices suggested earlier this year that the
death penalty may be cruel and unusual punishment. So, how is this issue
playout on the campaign trail this year? We`ll start with Tara. Tara,
what do you think about this and why is this being brought up now?

DOWDELL: Well, first of all, Bernie Sanders has been talking about this
for decades. Bernie Sanders is not anything --

LUI: He`s not consistent.

DOWDELL: He`s not consistent. Exactly. So this is not something that
he`s just started to talk about. Also, this has been an ongoing issue that
he`s gotten picked up a lot of steam in recent years. The Democratic Party
as a whole has moved more to the Left. I think that`s not the case for
everyone. Because we`re very, we`re not a monolithic party, there`s a lot
of diversity within the party. But on the whole, generally speaking the
party has moved more to the Left. You look in Connecticut. The governor
of Connecticut also abolished the death penalty, there are other states in
the country where that`s happened as well.

So, I think that it`s gaining momentum and getting more traction, also not
just because of the botched executions, but with all these data that`s
Hillary Clinton pointed out. All this data that has come out that`s been
verify that shows that it is used more frequently on people of color, in
particular black Americans, in particular Latinos. And so, that is an
issue that has gotten much more media attention. It`s on the forefront and
I think there is a big push now for people to see that change.

LUI: Everyone, look at the numbers there, Robert. Seventy five percent
down to 49 percent --

TRAYNHAM: Well, I would talk about that for a few moments. Seventy five
percent in 1994, and look at this, here`s why --

LUI: Yes.

TRAYNHAM: Because Bill Clinton, her husband was talking about the crime
deal in 1994. This was and this is something that she`s very -- left out
and I understand why. Her husband was pushing this back in the mid-1990s.
He signed it into law and in all fairness to President Clinton and
Secretary Clinton, the Republicans were also getting, quote-unquote, "tough
on crime." Here`s why, in the 1990s, we have the whole, you know, driving
while black stuff. We also had a rise in cocaine use. We also had the
carjackings and so forth. So, the context of the 1990s, it was probably
appropriate at the time. To Tara`s point, what we now know about Ferguson,
about Baltimore, about Black Lives Matter. I mean, Trayvon Martin, you go
on down the list, we see a very disproportionate number of people that look
like me, that look like her, as well that are getting pulled over for very,
very minor misdemeanors if that. And probably the most guiltiest thing is
that because they`re people of color.

LUI: Sahil --

KAPUR: It`s a very different time, right? For the reasons you`ve talked
about, we were having a racial justice moment at this point and Democrats
as we just saw in that poll have moved very dramatically and they care --

LUI: Overall in fact, Sahil?

KAPUR: Right. Overall --

LUI: Yes.

KAPUR: -- and on issues of criminal justice. It`s not only the Democrats,
you have younger Republicans, Libertarian and Republicans like Mike Lee,
people in the Senate, Rand Paul who want to, you know, who want to change
mandatory minimums, who support a lot of what progressives want to do on
criminal justice. So, a lot of what, you know, a lot of what the
Republicans wanted to do in the `90s, their own party is not quite unborn
in the same way, I don`t think to keep in mind, Hillary Clinton has
essentially disowned her husband`s legacy on criminal justice issues.

DOWDELL: Bill Clinton has his own. His legacy on criminal justice issue.

LUI: So Democrats aren`t supporting it and those numbers have gone down
and overall they have gone down from 80 to 61 percent. I mean, quickly,
why is Hillary Clinton bringing this up right now?

DOWDELL: Well, I think part of why she hasn`t wholeheartedly just said I`m
against the death penalty is because of terrorism. I don`t think that`s a
big part of what she`s thinking of. And there are certain acts, you`ll see
in this country. It`s an interesting dynamic. And if you mind the
polling, around the time when very egregious things happen, the polling
shift a little bit on the death penalty. So, it is not a black and white
issue. When egregious things happen, you`ll hear people. You`ll hear the
rhetoric changed. You`ll hear the shifting and the Democratic Party, while
majority support it in those instances, the people will shift and people
will make exceptions.

KAPUR: People like the idea of the death penalty when you know the person
as guilty and done something heinous. The problem is that people who have
not committed those crimes are theoretically and probably as we`ve seen in
some cases being put to death and that is a very good argument for ending


LUI: Right. The latest on that plane that we`ve been watching in Egypt
Sinai Peninsula. We`re watching that story as well here on MSNBC. We`re
hearing from authorities, we`ll going to tell you what they`re saying.

Also next, China seeing a dramatic shift in policy. We`ll tell you what --
why it made international headlines.


LUI: We`re still following that breaking story coming out of Sharm El-
Sheikh, that crash of the Russian airliner, Metrojet is the name of the
airline, happening in Egypt`s Sinai Peninsula just this morning. Egyptian
officials saying, just within this hour, no survivors. Airbus has released
a statement on the crash. It reads in part, quote, "The concerns and
sympathy of the airbus employee goes to all those affected by this tragic
accident." That airframe that belongs to Metrojet, one of nine that that
airliner holds is believed to be an airbus A-321, one of the most popular
planes in the world. So, hence the statement coming from airbus.

We`re also watching on the Saturday for you, what has been a historic week
in China. The government there announcing Wednesday it was scrapping it`s
famous, well known one child policy, allowing couples now to have two
children. The controversial one child policy had been in place since 1979,
but China communist party decided eased those restrictions just this week
amid some fears the country`s aging population could slow down its economy.

Joining us now, Gordon Chang, Forbes contributor and author of "The Coming
Collapse of China." 1.3, 1.4 million trillion people here going up to two
child policy from a one child policy. That policy and allow two children
per family. Going up to a two child policy from a one child policy, how
does that make sense when they`re the most populous country in the world?

GORDON CHANG, FORBES CONTRIBUTOR: Well, because they have an accelerated
demographic decline. Especially in a workforce was peaked in 2011 about
five years before everybody thought. And the country will peak in 2028.
And then there`s a sharp decline towards the end of the century where China
ends up just a smidgeon over a billion.

LUI: It`s just because they want to beat their chest and say, we`re the
largest country in the world for the next couple of decades.

CHANG: Well, the Chinese do that.

LUI: Yes.

CHANG: And we take great pride in being part of the biggest tribe in the
world. But I think the real problem is the economy, which people now
understand how bad it is and people are starting to put these story lines
together that the accelerated change in demography is bad for the economy.
Remember China prospered during the reform era, when you had this
democratic dividend, the extraordinary bulge in the workforce. Now, you
got a demographic headwind and that`s the real problem for China.

LUI: We look back and not too long ago here Gordon, we might say the
manufacturing era is why they succeeded so well. But we`re in a different
economy as I look forward. Numbers don`t necessarily make sense here.

CHANG: Yes. Well, now they`re moving towards a service economy but only
because manufacturing is collapsing, it`s not that services are really
taking off, it`s not that consumer spending is taking off, it`s just that
by arithmetically, they`re becoming a much bigger part of the economy
because everything else is shrinking. That`s a real issue for China.
Money is coming out of the country, almost a half-trillion dollars in the
last calendar quarter. People in Beijing are worried about the economy.
And it`s no coincidence that this announcement on the two child policy came
at the end of a four-day economic meeting.

LUI: Hmm. Okay. What a story, moving to a two child policy there in
China. We will no longer be able to say a one child policy coming out of

Thank you so much Gordon Chang for joining us this morning on that very
topic. Another full hour of news and politics straight ahead. Stick with


LUI: Following breaking news for you this hour. Crash over the Sinai.
And thanks for staying with us this Saturday morning. I`m Richard Lui.

Want to get right to the breaking news this morning on UP. That Russian
plane carrying more than 200 people that crashed in Egypt`s Sinai
Peninsula, Egyptian officials saying just within the last hour, no
survivors of the crash. We have this story covered from a number of
angles. We have a panel of aviation experts here. NBC`s Tom Costello also
with us. But we want to begin with the latest details from NBC`s Ron Mott
in London. And, Ron, when we last spoke what we were getting from at least
out of Russia was new video of families learning the information as we`re
getting it, that Egyptian officials saying no survivors. And what are you

MOTT: No survivors. A very sad day obviously for the community in St.
Petersburg, all those folks waiting, family members waiting for their loved
ones to return home. We believe and suspect that most, if not all, the
passengers were Russian, coming back from vacation perhaps in Sharm El-
Sheikh, which is a very popular tourist destination for Russians. As the
plane left early this morning, the weather we`re told was, was really good,
so that should not be a factor when all of this is said and done in terms
of the investigation. By some, 23 minutes or so, after departure the radar
signal was lost. And, looking at some of the returns, and Tom and I, Tom
Costello and I, were talking off line just a few moments ago, there are a
couple, there are a lot of questions obviously that investigators are going
to pose here. But one of the things that`s interesting is the fact that
the last radar return was in the 27,000 feet area when the plane
disappeared off radar. I was just looking at some of the mountain ranges
in that region of Sinai, the peaks don`t go anywhere near 27,000 feet. So
that is one interesting thing. Also very interesting is the fact that the
plane slowed considerably from 400 plus knots down to 62 knots was the last
radar return. Which would indicate to me, as a pilot, that that looks like
a stall position where you`ve got a nose-high attitude and the plane
essentially no longer flying in the air.

Now we should mention there were 224 people aboard this aircraft, 217
passengers, a crew of seven. We understand that 17 of those passengers
were children. We have not seen any sort of official reports about
survivors. As you mentioned, Richard, there`s confirmed that there are no
survivors, but earlier this morning there were some reports, unconfirmed,
that there were survivors, and so that the Egyptian officials felt they
were substantial enough and credible enough that they dispatched closed to
four dozen ambulances to the scene. And obviously, unfortunately, that`s -
- those ambulances won`t be needed in terms of transporting people to
hospitals that were put on standby to look for possible survivors coming
into their trauma centers.

So 224 people dead in this, in this crash. Russian President Vladimir
Putin is calling on a day of national mourning there tomorrow across Russia
on November 1st. He`s also sent down some emergency officials to
coordinate and take lead of this investigation down there in the Sinai
Peninsula. Richard.

LUI: NBC`s Ron Mott watching all the mechanics for us all this morning in
London. We`ll check back with you a little bit later this hour on this
developing story. I just want to bring in NBC news correspondent Tom
Costello. The beat that he has carried over the decades here, aviation. A
lot of information coming in here, Tom. What are you looking at?

TOM COSTELLO NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, here`s what I`m looking at.
Actually, can we bring Ron back up on line because Ron and I have been
talking about this data. You can`t see this very well, but it`s a spread
sheet and essentially, it`s the radar returns on this particular plane.
And, and here`s what`s fascinating. Ron and I were -- he`s in London -- he
and I just had a phone conversation a minute ago. Ron, if I`m -- if you
and I are ready this correctly, at 41300 Zulu time, 413 Zulu time, the
altitude was 32,000 feet, the speed 404 knots. By 41321, in other words 21
seconds later, if I`m reading this correctly, he`s dropped from 404 knots
down to 62 knots. Is that accurate? Is that the way you read it also?
And down to 28,000 feet on the altitude?

MOTT: Correct. And it sounds to me, Tom, as we were mentioning on the
phone earlier, and I mentioned earlier this morning, that the plane seems
to me to have had a pitch control problem where the elevators on the tail
of the plane were forcing the pilots to try to fight it to, to maintain
control. So you will see the last radar return that was sent by that
aircraft was in a positive rate of climb.


MOTT: Which were indicate that they were in this altitude, or this
attitude I should say.


MOTT: .before obviously they went on to crash. So, there was a lot of
oscillating going on and it seems to me that the pilots were struggling to
maintain some, some pitch control over that aircraft.

COSTELLO: Yeah, this is the data we`re looking at here and it`s just a
spread sheet showing everything from the last radar contact time, the
altitude they were at, whether they were climbing or descending, and it
really does appear that at least in the last minute or so of this flight,
maybe even the last 30 seconds or so of the flight, things suddenly went,
went very badly for them as they. And it would appear that they`re
fighting to control this airplane. This is an Airbus A321. This is really
a work horse of a plane, it is flown around the world. It is the, the
stretch version, if you will, of Airbus` A320 family. It has a very good
safety record worldwide. It is highly unlikely -- let me say that again,
highly unusual that you would have some sort of a problem at altitude,
which is why this is so puzzling. In, in fact very few of the incidents
and accidents that we have reported on and covered over the last 40 years
involve a plane that is at altitude. The most recent one that I can think
of at cruising altitude was of course Air France 447 that was lost over the
Atlantic Ocean. But, and in that case, we know that they flew into
terrible weather conditions, the, the crew got disoriented, and they were
supposed to have been -- well, essentially, they put the plane into a
stall. That does not appear, just based on this data.

MOTT: Right.

COSTELLO: .that does not at, at face value appear to be what`s happened

MOTT: Flight radar 24 showing us that data here, Tom. And, and are you
saying then, and of course this is an initial, that the plane was porpoise-
ing in a way, trying to maintain its altitude as, again, Ron was indicating
here, Tom. But, but also, when you look at the next steps, and those black
boxes which we know so well, what will that tell us in terms of what
happened during this very moments? Will it give us better data than, than
what we are getting right now?

COSTELLO: Yes. Yes. We don`t -- this may not be the complete picture
here. In fact, I would assume it`s not. Not what we will get from the
flight data recorders and, and the cockpit voice recorder, we will get all
of the pieces of telemetry, all the data. We`ll find out exact air speed,
heading. We`ll find out what the flaps were doing, what was the
orientation of the configuration of the flaps? Engine performance. Was
there any problem with the engine? Did it degrade at all? What about the
tail? Do we know anything about the performance of the, of the entire tail
structure? All of that will be part of the flight data recorder.

MOTT: Right.

COSTELLO: And then the cockpit voice recorder very often can be so
critical because you will hear the cockpit conversations. You`ll hear the
pilot and the co-pilot discussing whatever their emergency might be. So
that`s going to be critical for them to get a handle on it as quickly as
possible. You know, one update also, you know since our last conversation
about an hour ago on MSNBC, prior to the news that nobody survived this,
there were, there was some original reporting from the ground, some
rescuers thinking that they had heard voices amidst the rubble, the rubble.
We now that that wasn`t true, that everybody appears to have died. So why
is it that the last radar contact is at 28,000 feet? That, that`s unusual,
candidly. I mean, you know, and the first thought you might have is, well,
did they experience some sort of a catastrophic mid-air breakup, and what
might have caused that? And we simply don`t have the answers.

LUI: In, in what case might that happen? Because at what altitude would
they drop out of radar? You`re saying at that level that`s very uncommon.

COSTELLO: Oh, no. They should be able to -- the radar should be able to
track them all the way down to the ground, especially in the Sinai.


COSTELLO: .assuming that they`ve got pretty good radar coverage over the
Sinai. And I got to tell you, you know, there may be no other area of the
world that is more heavily blanketed by radar.

LUI: Right.

COSTELLO: And, and with all -- you know, with Egypt, Israel, and everybody
watching the Sinai. What could happen here? Now listen this is totally in
the realm of speculation, but I think you have to look at whether there was
some sort of a complete breakup of the fuselage in some fashion. Did we,
did we see a mid-air disintegration of the fuselage and/or I don`t think
you can take off the table.

LUI: Mm-hmm.

COSTELLO: .although it seems unlikely, I don`t think you can take off the
table the possibility of some act. Although I want to underscore that
seems unlikely. And we should also point out that there is some reporting
out of Russia that the pilot may have radioed that he was having some sort
of technical problem, that`s the translation that we`re getting, technical
problem. That doesn`t tell us a whole heck of a lot, so.

LUI: Right. Very general.

COSTELLO: So there`s an awful lot here to suggest that whatever happened,
it happened very quickly indeed and at altitude, which again is very

LUI: While I`ve got you, I have to ask you, what do we know about
Metrojet? It`s website showing it only has nine planes, pretty much all
from the same family here, Tom.

COSTELLO: I, I can`t speak specifically to the reputation of that airline,
but I can tell you that, you know, the former Soviet Union has seen a
tremendous growth in commercial passenger service, jet service, because
you`ve seen this ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union. More and
more Russians are able to afford to fly. Although now, with the embargo
and also.

LUI: Mm-hmm.

COSTELLO: .of course with the, the drop in oil prices, many Russians don`t
have a lot of money. But this is a very popular place to fly to, Sharm El-
Sheikh, Egypt. It`s a popular tourist destination for Russians who can
afford to go. You know, the challenge in many of these nations that have
seen this growing and expanding commercial air service in which it, it`s
not been as fully and heavily regulated as it is in Europe and the United
States, the challenge has been to ensure quality is upheld, to ensure that
you`ve got good quality pilots, that they`re held to their same standards,
that the, the plane is maintained.

LUI: Mm-hmm.

COSTELLO: .according to the standards that we are expecting here in the
West. That has been a challenge around the world, so. I cannot speak to
the reputation of this particular airline.

LUI: And we will still be looking into that and it`s early. Tom Costello,
thank you for the very latest on that.

Joining us now here is former British senior officer and pilot, Mikey Kay.
Also with us is former NTSA board member, John Goglia, and Anthony Roman,
CEO and founder of Roman and Associates, an investigation risk management
firm. Anthony, we were talking about this the last hour and we have more
information from Tom Costello and Ron Mott, and it`s (jogging). If it
turns out to be that flight radar 24, they`ve got it right, and they
normally do, what does that tell you?

ROMAN: Well, it appears they have a control problem. Now there are
several reasons you can have a control problem in an aircraft of that type.
One is power (plant), one is mechanical.

LUI: Yeah.

ROMAN: ..we have a, a problem with the empennage, which is the tail, and
the small wing on the back with control surfaces that control the pitch,
and it could be less likely a computer bug problem which creates trouble
controlling the aircraft. Now it has five computer redundancies, as
unlikely as that it, there has been some history of that reporting, albeit
rare. So, any one of those.

LUI: So it`s a, it`s a fly by wire plane. And so, if you do have a
mechanical problem, even though you have computer redundancies, whether it
be three, four or five, how is this addressed then when, when you`re in
flight because the planes jogging, everything is digital, jet you have a
mechanical issue in perhaps the empennage, as you were describing, which is
the rear of the plane that controls whether it`s going up or whether it`s
going down?

ROMAN: Well I think, I think one of the issues here, Richard, is that
there was no distress call put out. So, picking up on..

LUI: No Mayday.

ROMAN: No Mayday call or (pan) call. And, picking up on Tom`s reporting,
the, there`s certainly indications that what happened happened abruptly.
And if I can pick on the radar trace, when we talk about tracking on radar,
there are two way of doing that. You can track it on primary radar, and
that is effectively a radar that sends out a piece of energy, it bounces
off the radar cross-section of the airplane, it comes back again, and can
tell you the distance.

LUI: That`s what we`re seeing here?

ROMAN: Right. But, no, no, what, what we`ve got here is, is the pattern
from what`s called the secondary surveillance radar. That picks up the
transponder. The transponder is this piece of equipment in the airplane
that has a four-digit code, and every aircraft is given a unique code so
the air traffic control can track that and then hand it over. So what`s
surprising is that at 28,000, according to Tom`s reporting and London`s
reporting, it appears that that`s just dropped off the radar, which is
unusual because primary radar can track out to 150 miles. And secondary
surveillance radar can track out to around 250 miles. If you then place on
top of that this has just disappeared at 28,000 feet, which is very
unusual, there`s no RT call, there`s no distress call, and also there is,
there`s no emergency code on the transponder. So it`s all kind of
indicating that something`s happened very abruptly at altitude.

LUI: John, quickly.

GOGLIA: The primary radar is typically military use in this area. And we
probably haven`t heard from the military, so they may actually have traces
of this airplane coming all the way down.

LUI: All right. Thank you all three for watching this. We`ll of course
be stopping by with you as we watch this story throughout the morning, here
on MSNBC, on this plane crash in Egypt`s Sinai Peninsula. First off though
for you next the fight in Syria is where go. What this week`s policy shift
means for our troops.


LUI: On this Saturday, we`re going to switch gears and discuss a major
policy shift in the war against ISIS. U.S. Special Operations forces are
now being deployed to northern Syria, the White House announcing on Friday.
The President authorized nearly 50 Special Ops personnel to advise
opposition forces in their fight against ISIS. They could be on the ground
within one month.

Meanwhile, overseas in Vienna, Secretary of State John Kerry announcing the
U.S. and Russia and more than one dozen other countries will work towards
establishing a cease fire in Syria. The talks wrapped up yesterday with no
demand for Syrian President Bashar Al Assad to step down. NBC`s Ali Arouzi
is in Vienna with the latest details.

ALI AROUZI, NBC NEWS TEHRAN BUREAU CHIEF: The broadest peace talks since
the conflict began in Syria have taken place here in Vienna. Iran, which
is widely seen as the missing part in these talks, was invited for the
first time, which pits them against arch rival Saudi Arabia. The two sides
have very different interests in this country. No although all the main
players involved in this Syrian conflict were here, there were no
representatives from the Syrian government or the Assad regime, a clear
indication that Iran and Saudi Arabia need to come to some sort of
understanding before there can be meaningful change in that country. Now
all the players involved here agree that there needs to be a new diplomatic
process in order to end the violence in Syria, but they couldn`t seem to
decide on the fate of President Assad. Secretary Kerry said that there`s
no way Assad could unite the Syrian people, and he said that Russia`s
position and Iran`s position was very different than that of the United
States, and they have to agree to disagree. Russian Foreign Minister
Sergey Lavrov said that there shouldn`t be any preconditions for the
removal of Assad or staying of Assad, and Iran said it was because of their
efforts that there was no timetable drawn up for the removal of Assad. Now
all the sides here agree that there needs to be credible, inclusive, non-
sectarian government, governance there which involves a new constitution
and fresh elections for all Syrian people, including the Syrian diaspora
and people of all ethnicities in that country. All sides have agreed to
meet back here in Vienna in the next two weeks to see if they can do
something about this devastating conflict. Back to you, Richard.

LUI: Thank you so much. NBC`s Ali Arouzi reporting for us there in
Vienna. Now, after the announcement, the White House quickly pushed back
against the claim the President broke a no boots on the ground pledge.
Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In September of 2013, the President was receiving
questions about what the United States was prepared to do given our
insistence that the Assad, that President Assad, had to go, that he`d lost
legitimacy to lead. And the President was making the point that he was not
prepared to put boots on the ground to take down the Assad regime.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, he was not going to put boots on the ground.
We`ve heard him reiterate that same idea multiple times. That he wouldn`t
put boots on the ground in Syria.

UNIDENTIFIELD MALE: Well, again, you`ve read one quote from that, to be
fair, is out of context. The situation that the President has described is
a, is a description of the kind of mission that our men in women in uniform
will have in our counter-ISIL campaign.

LUI: Criticism also coming from new House Speaker Paul Ryan, who blasted
the President`s Syria strategy during a one on one interview with NBC`s
Chuck Todd for this Sunday`s "Meet the Press."

REP. PAUL RYAN, (R) WISCONSIN: Well, look, if this means that the
President now has a serious strategy, good. I want to see what it is. He
doesn`t have a serious strategy, he has not had a serious strategy. That`s
part of our complaint. So if this now means that the President has come up
with a, with a comprehensive strategy for Syria, let`s hear what it is.

Syria, shouldn`t Congress weigh in on this?

RYAN: So let`s see what, let`s see exactly what it is that he`s proposing
and then, then make judgments.

TODD: So you think he`s authorized to do this without congressional

RYAN: I want to see what exactly it is he`s proposing before rendering


LUI: Joining us now from the White House, it`s NBC`s Luke Russert. Luke,
as we were just playing some of what has been said over the last 24, 48
hours, criticism seems to be coming from, from all sides. What`s the White
House saying now, this morning?

Richard, good morning, that this was necessary. That the security
situation had deteriorated to the point where they felt the 50 commandos
they`re sending to quote train, advise, and assist, not in a direct combat
role, could make a significant impact in trying to secure the country
through more anti-Assad forces, specifically those from the Kurdish forces,
as well as those moderate Syrian militias. They said this was necessary
because they viewed it as a opening that was occurring by how these forces
from Kurdistan -- rather the Kurdish forces that would be able to hold the
ground which they have taken.

Now all that being said, Richard, which is very here is that this comes
directly after Russia over the last few weeks has moved into Syria to back
up Bashar Al Assad. So a lot of people from where I work, usually on the
Hill, see this as a reaction by the White House to Russia`s continuing
involvement in Syria, as well as this belief that they want to be able to
hold ground that they have taken so far. However, I can also tell you from
my conversations on Capitol Hill, there is near universal belief that 50
commandos training, advising and assisting, whatever that means, is not
enough. If you`re really going to go in, you have to have more.

So it will be interesting to see how this plays out on Capitol Hill. I
thought Paul Ryan`s comments were pretty measured. A lot of liberal
Democrats I spoke to yesterday do not want to see this escalation. They
see this as a slow drip, drip, drip, drip. I heard Vietnam analogies a few
times yesterday. So this`ll be interesting to see how it all plays out,

LUI: NBC`s Luke Russert, thank you so much, Luke, there at the White House
this morning. Thank you.

Joining us now is former U.S. Ambassador to Syria, Richard Murphy. And
we`re here here (sic), Ambassador, thank you for being here this morning,
from Luke Russert and, and, and our others, other reporters on the Hill. A
lot of controversy behind this move. Luke just making that note that, you
know, 50 more boots on the ground, if you will, not going to really impact
what has been a, a four-year crisis for refugees there in Syria. What`s
your thought on these moves? Will this actually move things?

attention that first, this is the first the administration.

LUI: Mm-hmm.

MURPHY: .has committed to an open-ended mission involving our troops on
the ground. Now they`re not -- they don`t have a combat mission. It`s
advisory, it`s at the headquarters level, it`s not even advising on calling
in the aircraft strikes to improve the quality of those strikes. But it`s
significant. The timing is significant, that it happened. It was revealed
the day major conference started up in Vienna, to signal to the Russians
we`re here, our guys that we`ve been supporting we`re going to continue
supporting. And it`s a signal to friends and allies like the Saudis.

LUI: Ambassador, what would you say might be potential next steps if, as
the critics are saying, this is not enough to move things off center?

MURPHY: Well, I think this is op -- going on against the background of a
move to get diplomatic talks going, to get a political process going for a
cease fire. That`s really the big news, that they did agree in general
terms yesterday in Vienna to get going on the cease fire country-wide. And
this is in itself a marginal contribution on the military side, but it`s a
signal to our friends and to the Russians.

LUI: Former Ambassador, thank you so much for being here. Richard Murphy
on this Saturday giving us reflections on the moves by the White House
there in Syria.

Coming up we`ll give you the latest on the Russian airline crash in the
Egypt Sinai Peninsula. We`re watching that. NBC`s Ron Mott`s been
covering that for us from London. Later also Hillary Clinton expanding her
lead against challenger Bernie Sanders. We`ve got the new numbers.


LUI: If you`re just joining us here on MSNBC, we`ve been following the
breaking news all morning for you. Overnight that Russian airplane
carrying 224 people crashing in Egypt`s Sinai Peninsula. We`ve learned all
224 were killed in that accident. NBC`s Ron Mott has been following this
story and right now in Sharm El-Sheikh, where that plane did take off here,
Ron, it is 3:30 in the afternoon, and this happening very early in the
morning. You`ve been watching this. What do we know that`s new at this

MOTT: Well, obviously, Richard, there are going to be 224 heartbreaking
stories to emerge from this crash. We`re just seeing the first of those
now in St. Petersburg, Russia. There was a friend of a newlywed couple
that had gone away on vacation. They were returning home this morning,
back to Russia, when this plane crashed. And the woman said to her friend,
they really wanted to go to Egypt, and she asked, why do you want to go to
Egypt? And, and, and her friend responded this is a place she`s always
wanted to see. She is among the dead, as well as her newlywed husband. We
can also tell you, and this will be interesting going forward as the
investigation continues here, Richard, that Russian transport investigators
say they are going to be looking very carefully now at the maintenance
records of this airline, Metrojet. They last performed a safety inspection
there in March of 2014, found some violations, and gave the airline some
time to make corrections to those violations to make sure that it could go
back in the air, and apparently the airline did just that. But to see that
so soon after a crash like this, that the investigators want to go right to
those maintenance records to see if the airline was actually maintaining
these aircraft, and this particular aircraft, in the manner in which the,
the government would have liked to have seen it.

Now, we can tell you that when the plane took off, the weather was not a
factor. It was clear, it was just at morning dusk and the sun was about to
rise there in Sharm El-Sheikh. And sometime, 23 minutes after departure,
the radar signal was lost. Now I`ve seen conflicting reports on the
altitude, but something happened at altitude with this plane that, that
seems to suggest that there was a pitch control problem and the plane
obviously landing in rather hostile territory there in the northern reaches
of Sinai -- of the Sinai Peninsula, where Egyptian military authorities and
troops have been clashing with militants over time and there was a huge
clash there this summer. So we don`t suspect and have not seen any sort of
official confirmation that this was a sinister act brought about by
terrorism. It appears at this point that this might have been just a
mechanical disaster, and we`ll know in soon, in short order I suspect, what
that was, Richard.

LUI: All morning for us. Thank you so much, NBC`s Ron Mott watching the
details coming into us.

I also want to bring into the conversation NBC aviation analyst John Cox.
John, as Ron Mott has been reporting for us, that information, those key
pieces of data that we`ll be looking for, one of which very early on this
morning, flight radar 24. And what Ron did, as well as Tom Costello did,
is they went through that spread sheet, and maybe you`ve done the same
here, Ron, is, is, is that, Tom -- excuse me, John, is that -- they were
looking at how the, the plane`s altitude was changing, and that it may have
been porpoising, if you will, trying to stay up in the air. What does that
tell you if those pieces of data are correct?

CAPTAIN JOHN COX, NBC AVIATION ANALYST: If the flight radar 24 data is
correct, what it says is that the airplane, shortly after it announced to
air traffic control that they had a technical problem, started down at a --
in a controlled descent that increased up to about 6,000 feet a minute.
That is within the normal flight parameters of a commercial airline,
including the Airbus A321. Then what that says is that the technical
problem was one that required the pilots to descend quickly, and this would
-- this is a routine manoeuver, pilots train for it, and so we can`t really
conclude anything from the rate of descent.


COX: What it says more is what the technical problem was that caused it.

LUI: Talking about that rate of descent, if it is indeed 6,000 feet per
minute, compare that force, if you will, what we normally experience when
we are landing from a flight in the United States. What is that rate of
descent normally?

COX: Well, the rate of descent can be very variable and, if it is not
uncommon that if an airplane is descended, you may be very well at 6,000
feet a minute.

LUI: Huh.

COX: The thing that the passengers feel is the rate at which the nose goes
down and how you enter that descent rate.

LUI: Got it.

COX: You can enter from 1,000 to 3,000, to 6,000 feet a minute, and it
feels very normal.

LUI: Right.

COX: And then, at the back end of it, you reduce that rate of descent
gradually and this would be normal.

LUI: John, so, so when we`re -- again, going back to this radar data, is
it a problem with the back of the plane? You know, the empennage? Or is
it a possible problem with the flaps on the wings themselves when we look
out that window that at least this data is telling us right now.

COX: Well, what you wouldn`t see, would see to get this kind of to
separate in all likelihood is panels on the top of the wings known as
spoilers. They would extend, which helps increase the rate of descent for
the airplane and you`d feel a little bit of buffeting when those spoiler
panels go up. Otherwise, there -- you`d see the nose gradually come down,
the airplane power would come back, and the, the flight spoilers would come
up, and that`s what the passengers would feel. It would feel relatively
normal other than that, that bit of buffeting.

LUI: OK. Thank you for -- so great information. Aviation analyst John
Cox, thank you so much.

Still ahead, local leaders are fed up with congressional inaction on gun
reform. We`ll talk to two mayors about what they plan to do in their
cities about that. Also next, new poll numbers that show how Vice
President Biden`s decision not to run for President is impacting the race
for the Democratic nomination.


LUI: All right, let`s talk about the Democratic primary where a new NBC
News online poll conducted by SurveyMonkey showing that Hillary Clinton is
expanding her lead now to over 20 percentage points over Senator Bernie
Sanders. But Sanders maintains his command over younger voters, 48 percent
of those aged 18 to 29 showing support for the Senator. Hillary Clinton
leads with all the other age groups here. Now voter attitudes also
separate the two. Sixty-three percent of voters who are satisfied with the
government, they support Clinton. Forty-three percent of those who are
angry with government, they support Sanders. Now this is the first NBC
News online poll conducted since Vice President Joe Biden announced he
would not enter the race.

Our panel still with us. Who wants to get in on this? You know, Bernie
Sanders has compared himself to Barack Obama, at least by the young voter
support, he`s not wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, let`s go back for a second. I mean the reason why
Hillary Clinton is doing so well, two reasons. First and foremost,
something that was in control, something that not out of control. Out of
her control, Joe Biden decided not to run. And so obviously a lot of those
people that were riding on the fence now go towards Hillary Clinton.
Something -- and she couldn`t control that. Something that she could
control, one that she did marvelously, was the Benghazi hearings. I mean,
look, at the end of the day, she was very, very substantive, she sat there
for almost 10 hours and very patiently answered the Republicans` questions.
I think most objective people would say that the Republicans, my party, did
a horrible job of beating up on her and being very petty and very
vindictive, and she showed herself to be very presidential. The majority
of Americans looking at that said, you know what, I have, still have my
suspicions about Hillary Clinton on a lot of issues, but she looked
presidential, she seemed to be very substantive, and they just seemed to be
bullying up on her. So a lot of people are now going towards Hillary
Clinton. Now the question becomes is whether or not she`s going to be able
to maintain this going into the general. I still don`t know the answer to
that because it depends on who the Republicans nominate.

LUI: So (want to we buff) and Hillary Clinton getting all the benefit from
Joe Biden saying no?

DOWDELL: Well, yeah, because Bernie Sanders, his supporters are pretty
hardened. I mean those people are not people, oh, maybe I`ll go with
Biden, those are not who his supporters are. They are committed to Bernie
Sanders. So for Hillary Clinton, the folks who were thinking about Joe
Biden, were supporting Joe Biden, not to say that all of them have migrated
to Hillary Clinton, but they`re more likely to support Hillary Clinton, and
some of them have migrated to Hillary Clinton. So she benefited from them.
Also, she had a rough summer. But what she did in that debate, that first
debate, was she really established herself. She reintroduced herself to
people, talking about what her background was. There`s this perception
that she`s this wealthy woman that came from wealth. That`s actually a
perception that`s out there. She talked about what her real background
was. She was forceful, she showed passion, she showed fight, she was crisp
in her responses, and that`s what Democrats have wanted to see from Hillary
Clinton. People said they felt like she wasn`t having as good of a time.
She showed energy, she showed passion and enthusiasm, and people wanted to
see that and that helped her too.

LUI: But along the way, but by deducing this, it wasn`t young voters that
went to her camp, at least it looks like.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was always the case that she was a towering figure
in the Democratic party and by far the favorite to win this nomination. We
haven`t seen a political analyst who looked at the nominating process, have
not seen a candidate this strong at the outset in the history of the
modern, the modern primary. So that was always the case. What Bernie
Sanders did was he generated a lot of enthusiasm from young voters and from
voters who describe themselves as very progressive and simply don`t trust
Hillary Clinton. At the same time, Biden`s exit and the very good month
that Hillary Clinton has had from the Benghazi hearings you talked about,
from the, from her performance in the debate where she exceeded
expectations, and she was helped by the Republicans, particularly House
Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy who talked about this Benghazi committee not
as a fact-finding expedition -- or not as a fact-finding mission, but as a
little bit of a political expedition that ended up driving down Hillary
Clinton`s poll numbers. So the race has settled into an equilibrium now
and Bernie Sanders was always, you know, the underdog. He, he was never,
he never looked likely to win. It looks like he could win New Hampshire
and he`s going to give her a bit of fight in Iowa. It`s going to be a huge

LlU: But we`ve seen this movie -- we`ve seen this movie before, right? So
back in 2007 Hillary Clinton was up 31 points against Barack Obama, and she
had some self-inflicted wounds going into the late primary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, so it`s not the same and one very important

LUI: No, but if I could -- I`m sorry, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, so you like that, Bernie Sanders is comparing
himself to Barack Obama is what you`re saying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not an apt comparison, but the invisible primary
that people talk about, the elitist part, Obama got those. Bernie Sanders
is (inaudible) people.

LUI: You guys keep on going. We`re, we`re going to pay some bills. Keep
on talking. Up next for you right now on UP, what mayors of two U.S.
cities plan to do about gun violence in their own cities. Stick around.



the politics changes and the behavior of elected officials changes. And so
the main thing I`m going to do is I`m going to talk about this on a regular
basis. And I will politicize it because our inaction is a political
decision that we are making.


LUI: That was President Obama earlier this month, days after the deadly
shooting at an Oregon community college. It was the most recent example of
the President speaking out about the obstacles to gun reform. And now
mayors of major U.S. cities are voicing their frustration with Congress on
this very issue. Ninety percent of mayors in a political magazine survey
says Congress is doing too little on the issue of firearm regulation and
gun violence.

We`re joined by two of the mayors who are part of that survey. We have
Stephanie Minor of Syracuse and Jorge Elorza of Providence. Thank you both
for being here today. Stephanie, I`ll start with you. What`s your
reaction to this and what the President has said.

what the President said. This is an issue that mayors are fighting every
single day. Just this week in Syracuse we arrested a parole violator from
New York City. When he was arrested he was found with an AK-47, a nine
millimeter semi-automatic, and a .22. We chase these things down, but what
we have come to find is that these guns aren`t coming Syracuse, they`re not
even coming from New York state. They`re coming from other places which
have lax gun laws, they`re falling into the wrong hands, and there are
innocent victims across our country and families that are grieving because
of Congress` failure to enforce reasonable gun control or enforce the laws
that are already on the books. This is not something that`s going to go
away until the policyholders act on this.

LUI: Mayor Elorza, in this survey, as you know, here and I`ll just pick
one of the numbers here, 89 percent of the mayors saying that cities should
be able to implement independent tougher gun restrictions than surrounding
states. That`s one of the results of that. Are you part of that 89
percent, and do you agree with that assessment? And, if so, how would you
see that improvement being undertaken?

percent, and I agree with, with Mayor Minor. You know, we`re concerned at
the local level and we`re frustrated with the level of inaction that`s been
coming from Washington, D.C. And at the local level, we don`t, we don`t
have the luxury of being ideological about this. We have to be practical
and we have to act. So later this week I`m going to announce a -- I`m
taking executive action to take illegal guns off the streets, and getting
guns out of the hands of people who are violent offenders. This isn`t
about being hostile to the Second Amendment. It`s not even about tough on
crime, debates of decades ago. This is about, this is about being
practical and understanding that we face real issues, really concerning
issues, on a day to day basis at the local level. And by getting these
guns off the streets, about educating people about the dangers of guns and
letting them know how to inform law enforcement to get them off this
streets, this is ways at the local level we can make a difference.
Because, unfortunately, it`s not coming, it hasn`t come, and I`m somewhat
skeptical that it will come from Washington, D.C. So we`re going to
continue to put the pressure on but, at the same time, we`re going to
continue to act at the local level to make sure we address these very
practical concerns that we have. We have to keep our residents safe, we
have to keep our streets safe, and there are a number of measures that we
can take at the local level that are just common sense measures that we can
take to make sure these illegal guns are off of the streets and out of the
hands of violent offenders.

LUI: A lot of breaking news today. I apologize, Mayor Stephanie Minor,
Mayor of Syracuse, and Jorge Elorza, Mayor of Providence. We owe you some
next -- some time next time to talk more on the topics of the day. Thank
you both for stopping by though on this busy day, busy day and busy

MINOR: Thank you, Richard.

LUI: All righty.

ELORZA: Thank you, Richard.

LUI: Up next the costume that stole the show at the White House yesterday.
We`ll show that to you.


LUI: Continuing to get more information about that deadly plane crash in
Egypt. All 224 people on board the Russian jet have died. Just confirming
that within the last hour. The investigation, that is underway. Russian
President Vladimir Putin has declared tomorrow a national day of mourning.
We`re going to go live again later next hour to London to get the very
latest. Stay with us here on MSNBC throughout the day as we follow the
details as they now look at the wreckage on the ground there in the Sinai
Peninsula right here.

There`s a lot else, a lot more going on this morning, and I`m going to get
caught up on some of the other headlines making news with today`s panel.
And we`re going to have a little fun along the way. I`m going to start
with this. So we were talking about this before the break and it was
Halloween at the White House. (Tara), I think you were saying that it was
Pope Francis had returned.

DOWDELL: Oh, I can`t believe he came back so quick.

LUI: Yeah, they, they -- the President and the First Lady coming out, you
know, with candy to trick or treaters from local schools and (inaudible)..

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there`s a Fiat.

LUI: There you go, there you go. The Pope Mobile, or the Fiat itself.
President Obama got a kick out of that little Pope Mobile, by the way,
telling the media that child got the top prize. Cute kid, though, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, very much so.

LUI: This is another one. This is from the Hill, the headline reading
Clinton asked staff about smiley faces. It`s in an April 2012 e-mail that
was released by the State Department yesterday. Clinton writing to a
staffer quote, here you go. "Here`s my question on this new Berry. Can I
get smiley faces?" And the staffer, according to this e-mail, said, "Type
them out manually like this for happy or this if you want to express anger
at my tardiness." So, you know, we`ll all I guess having Blackberry
issues, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone`s got to learn emojis at some point. When
you`re running the world you can probably delegate it to (inaudible).

DOWDELL: Yeah, you can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s for sure.

LUI: Well, I want Gmail to have it. Like there sometimes I want to (fell)
like, you know, rolling, rolling eyes. And I just want to hit a button and
I can`t do it.


LUI: And they haven`t put it in yet, or at least I don`t know how to do

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it`s kind of fun that the Secretary of State
wants to maybe send a smiling face to Putin or something like that.

DOWDELL: Exactly, that`s -- it`s diplomacy.

LUI: It is. You know, a little sense of who they are as people, that they
encounter the same issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, the next generation keyboard will have emojis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I`m surprised she didn`t ask Chelsea or
someone like. Maybe she did.

DOWDELL: It kind of reminds me of my mom. I get these calls all the time
saying, I`m on my iPad, how do I do this? So it, it`s very endearing I
think. Those type of e-mails coming out are good for her I think. That
she`s a real person.

LUI: Shows humanity.

DOWDELL: .and people forget that. Yes.

LUI: All right. So next what I got to talk about. It`s Saturday so I`m
talking about Michigan football. ESPN with this headline, Michigan fans
meet in comment section, they fall in love, they just get married.
What a great way to, to end this show today. The newlyweds they met in
2012 on comments section of ESPN`s Big 10 blog, and they`re both Michigan
alumni, you know, go blue, and they made it happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like this may be the, the only good thing ever
to come out sports comments (inaudible).

DOWDELL: (inaudible) comments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, the comments sections. And I`m happy, I`m happy
for them and wish them the (inaudible).

LUI: Somebody getting married, all right.

DOWDELL: I had no idea that anything positive could come out of comments
section, so this is encouraging.

LUI: Forget the dating sites, just go to the comments section.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I live with a Michigan State person, so I can`t
really comment on this.

LUI: Well, you`re still a nice guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re still a lot of fun.

LUI: Thank you all three for being here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks for having us.

DOWDELL: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we going to have a donut now?

LUI: Now we all can dig in the donuts as, as we go to break. Thanks to
Tara Dowdell, Sahil Kapur, and Robert Traynham for joining us this morning
on "Up," and thank you for getting up with us this morning. Melissa
Harris-Perry coming up next. Definitely stick around for that. Have a
great Saturday.


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