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All In With Chris Hayes, Wednesday, November 4th, 2015

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Date: November 4, 2015
Guest: Quentin Tarantino


CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN --

QUENTIN TARANTINO, FILMMAKER: I have to call the murdered the murdered and
I have to call the murderers the murderers.

HAYES: Quentin Tarantino joins me for his first TV interview since those
comments at a rally against police brutality. Why he`s not backing down as
police unions call for a boycott of his film.

Then, what fueled the Republican wins last night?

MATT BEVIN (R), KENTUCKY GOVERNOR-ELECT: This is a great night for the
Republican Party in this state of Kentucky.

HAYES: And what it may or may not say about the 2016 race.

Plus, a stunning twist in the death of an Illinois cop known as G.I. Joe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are no winners here.

HAYES: Why investigators say the officer staged his suicide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gliniewicz committed the ultimate betrayal.

HAYES: And Jeb Bush hits a new low.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This morning, 4 percent. Did you ever think you`d be -

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don`t even care. It`s not

HAYES: As Ben Carson dethrones Donald Trump as front runner.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need strength now. We don`t
need Ben Carson.

HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.


HAYES: Good evening, from New York. I`m Chris Hayes.

With one year before the presidential election and yesterday`s off year
election now officially in the books, the bewildering paradoxes of American
politics and never more evident. On the surface, the Republican Party
appears to be in chaos. Front runners in the GOP presidential race are a
reality TV star and a former neurosurgeon with no political experience,
with a few clear policy positions and a penchant for offensive historical
analogies and extreme statements.

And last night, Donald Trump retweeted a photo collage affixed with the
words "adios Jeb aka Jose", which included a swastika and a photoshopped
image of Jeb Bush in a sombrero. Trump has since deleted it.

As for Jeb Bush, the anointed candidate of the GOP establishment, the man
who is supposed to be able to win the general election, he is polling in
the single digits. And the GOP controlled House is being led a speaker who
had to be cajoled into the job and who must contend with the far right
contingent drawn to overreach and ideologically oppose to compromise.

Yet despite all that, the Republican Party still has a whole lot to feel
good about, including what happened yesterday in Kentucky which had one of
the last bastions of Democratic governance in the south. Tea Party aligned
Republican Matt Bevin won a big victory in the governor`s race despite
concerns he was too extreme to win a general election.

Bevin, both an economic conservative, who`s threatened to reverse
Democratic incumbent Governor Steve Beshear`s implementation of Obamacare
and a social conservative who threw his support behind anti-gay Kentucky
county clerk Kim Davis who he visited in jail.


BEVIN: I`m proud for the fact that this is a great night for the
Republican party in the state of Kentucky. I`m also --


I`m also grateful for the fact that more importantly this is a great night
nor conservatives in the state of Kentucky.


HAYES: It`s also a great night for social conservatives in Houston, Texas,
where the message "no men in women`s bathrooms" was used a successful
campaign to get voters to block by a wide margin an anti-discrimination
ordinance protecting gay and trans people, as well as other people.


ANNISE PARKER (D), HOUSTON MAYOR: This was a campaign of fear-mongering
and deliberate lies, deliberate lies. This isn`t misinformation. This is
a calculated campaign of lies designed to demonize a little understood


HAYES: And there`s a larger story, which the cold hard numbers made clear.
In addition to controlling both houses of Congress, Republicans control 70
percent of state legislatures, more than 60 percent of governors, 55
percent of attorneys general and secretaries of state. Republicans have
unified control of 25 states, that`s both houses of the state legislature
plus the governorship, while Democrats only have unified control of seven

Consider this: under President Obama, Democrats have lost more than 900
seats in state legislatures across the country -- 900. With one year until
the presidential election, both major parties have reasons to feel
confident and both have reason to be terrified.

And who better to join me to discuss that than the party`s two prospects
are people that understand them, MSNBC political analyst Michael Steele,
former chair of the RNC, MSNBC political analyst Howard Dean, former chair
of the DNC.

Gentlemen, the two of you both excelled I think in your respective
chairmanships in listening to and building out the grassroots, building

Governor Dean, you were in charge in the run-up 2006, 2008, which saw
tremendous Democratic victories and a real build-out of the party`s
capacity in 50 states.

Michael Steele, you were in charge in the run-up to 2010, which sort of
began the big Tea Party backlash and taking back of the House.

So I want to get your sense of where the parties are and I`ll start with
you, Governor Dean. Given some of the numbers we have seen, the 900 state
legislative seats, the 25 parties unified control, the numerous House and
Senate seats lost. What is going on in the Democratic Party at the local

HOWARD DEAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Nothing. That`s the problem. I
mean, we had a 50-state strategy when I came in. We didn`t control the
House, the Senate or the presidency. By the time I left, we controlled all

If you want to -- you have to sustain that. You can`t just have a
Democratic president and say, oh boy, this is just great and now we can do
something else. You have to have resources in state parties. You have to
have organizations in state parties, even places you don`t think we can
win, because if you don`t do that, we`re never going to win those states.

HAYES: Is that -- I mean, what are -- but be explicit here. Was the
trajectory altered after you left the DNC?

DEAN: Oh, sure.

HAYES: Strangled off?

DEAN: Here`s what happens. There`s nobody I blame for this.
Historically, when a Democratic president or a Republican president for the
RNC comes in, the party becomes the election -- re-election vehicle for the
president and this is why the senatorial committee and congressional
committee exist because the Congress people and Senate people got tired of
the DNC, taking the resources for the president`s campaign and happened
again, and this is the result.

Now, let`s not hang crate. We had some big wins.

HAYES: Right.

DEAN: Democracy for America was very involved in getting the Pennsylvania
Supreme Court re-elected so that they can stop gerrymandering.

HAYES: Big wins in Pennsylvania supreme court, the school board race that
was much noticed in Colorado.

DEAN: Yes.

HAYES: Where progressives were able to successfully recall some folks.

DEAN: Seattle, there was some progressive stuff passed there.

So, this is not -- tonight is not a disaster but the four years or the six
years has not been great.

HAYES: So let`s flip it around to you, Michael Steele, because at the
state level, right, here`s the map. That shows the GOP dominance of state
legislatures across the country. Much of which has been a product of the
Obama era.

But here`s, you know, here`s -- here`s the question, right? I mean, Mitt
Romney lost Latinos by 40 points. The Electoral College is such that the
next Democratic nominee can lose three or four states that Barack Obama
won, and still win the presidency, right?


HAYES: In that way, it`s an uphill battle at the national level and if you
go back and you read that postmortem by the RNC after 2012, very little of
that has been implemented. Where`s the Republican Party right now?

STEELE: Well, it`s funny. Howard and I in our 50-state strategies have
had exactly polar opposite effects and results. In the case of Democrats,
what Howard did was laid doubt the predicate to win nationally and they
did. He made the Democratic Party competitive in parts of the country
where they weren`t before, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, and
they won. They won presidential races.

When I got into the RNC, I had very much like Howard had inherited -- a
mess. And so, we focused on grassroots and building from the bottom up.
The result was winning state legislative races, mayorships and
governorships across the country. But not being able to seal the deal if
you will at the national level, winning the presidency.

So now both parties are at this cross roads where they have to figure out
how Democrats can begin to take some control at the grassroots level and
Republicans to win those legislative seats back, and Republicans have to
figure out how we win a national presidential campaign again.

And so, what that -- what that leaves is the party`s in a state of
confusion almost --

HAYES: Right.

STEELE: -- in how to do that, and you`ve seen that played out quite
honestly in both parties right now.

HAYES: I completely agree. Part of this has to do with turnout, right? I
mean --


HAYES: Kentucky last night turnout 30 percent, right? Now, to be clear,
Conway, the Democratic nominee, that`s Kentucky voter turnout the last few
elections, right? Thirty percent in the off year election.

Now, nationally, turnout has been -- has been lower in off year elections
than presidentials. Democrats have done very well in the years, the last
presidentials and getting people out, but have completely failed. I mean,
I had a former Democratic organizer who e-mailed me today sort of reeling
from this and saying, no one is showing up to talk to these folks about
coming out to vote four months ahead of time.

What are your issues? They`re showing up a week ahead of time with a knock
saying, you live in a census track (INAUDIBLE) Democratic.


DEAN: This is the weakness in the state parties, which is happened because
of the abandonment of the 50-state strategy.

We used to -- our deal with the 50-state strategy is creating a nationalist
with IT money and paying for that stuff and then synchronizing the list
across the states and each state, and we gave five staff members. They got
to train them but -- I mean, they got to hire them.

HAYES: You paid for them.

DEAN: We paid for them and trained them and what we trained them to do is
what the organizer you talked to did. You cannot win an election in the
last week. You have to start -- Obama presidential election is the
template. You start a year before. And it`s personal connections.

HAYES: And here`s my question to you, Michael, on this note: Has the
Republican Party laid the groundwork in the states and among the
constituencies they need to outperform essentially Mitt Romney in a year
ahead of the election? I mean, are there inroads and organizing being done
say among Latinos or in a state like North Carolina, Colorado and others?

STEELE: I -- you know, I have to give Reince credit to the extent that he
has kept in large part a lot of the 50-state strategy that we implemented
in 2009 and 2010. That was sort of the ground for the autopsy report and
their subsequent efforts. The problem here, Chris, is message.

HAYES: Right.

STEELE: It`s brand.

HAYES: Right.

STEELE: So, you can have all the foundation in the world --

HAYES: Right.

STEELE: -- if your message stinks, if people aren`t buying it, you`re not
going to be able to sell that. You`re not going to be able to grow that

HAYES: If you have your candidates saying to deport 11 million people as
an example.

STEELE: Right. That`s something Howard and I both understood is you have
to marry up the process, the effort with the resilient message that people
responded to.

DEAN: See, I don`t quite agree with that because in Kentucky had the
turnout been 45 percent, we would have won that race. The thing that kills
me about Kentucky is 460,000 people --

HAYES: Right.


DEAN: -- because they didn`t go out and vote for their own health

HAYES: That`s the question. That`s no one`s fault but the party. I mean,
you can say it`s --

DEAN: Voters` fault.

HAYES: Well, but it`s the party`s fault. Look, that`s the party`s job to
get people to vote.


STEELE: -- draw them out.

HAYES: Yes, right.

STEELE: I mean, I understand it and nothing to draw them to the polls.
You have to have something to say.


DEAN: Health insurance.

HAYES: Michael Steele and Howard Dean, I can do this for an hour -- thank
you gentlemen both. That was illuminating.

DEAN: Thank you.

HAYES: All right. Coming up, as Ben Carson dethrones Trump in the
national polls, Jeb Bush seems to be an afterthought. Why New Hampshire
could be the campaign saving grace.

Plus, director Quentin Tarantino will join me live to respond to the
national protest he`s now facing after comments he made at a rally against
police brutality.

Those stories and more, ahead.


HAYES: Officials are now looking into the possibility of the Russian plane
that went down over the Sinai Peninsula killing 224 people was brought down
by an explosive device with the suspicion that it was the work of ISIS or
an ISIS-affiliated group.

A U.S. official, single official, tells NBC News that evidence indicated it
was likely a bomb but that it could have also been a mechanical failure.
The suspicion, according to the official, is that the bomb was placed on
board by ground crew or baggage handlers and that ISIS is responsible.

I should emphasis here, at this point, it is a strong suspicion, not a
conclusion, and no evidence of a bomb has been found yet in the debris.
That said, the British government has temporarily halted flights between
the Sinai Peninsula and Britain as a precaution while investigators move

The flight`s data recorder is not yet fully analyzed but American military
officials said yesterday satellite surveillance indicated a flash of light
as the plane went -- got broken up. A missile had been ruled out because
of the heat signature.

We`ll keep monitoring the story and bring you updates as they develop.


HAYES: Filmmaker Quentin Tarantino has a major film coming out in December
"The Hateful Eight". But right now, police organizations around the
country are calling for a boycott of that movie. That`s after comments
Tarantino made at a rally in New York City in late October protesting
police brutality.

At one point during the seven-hour rally in March, this is what Tarantino
told the crowd in footage recorded by Democracy Now.


QUENTIN TARANTINO, FILMMAKER: I got something to say but actually I would
like to give my time to the families that want to talk. I want to give my
time to the families.

However, I just do also want to say, what am I doing here? I`m doing here
because I am a human being with a conscience. And when I see murder, I
cannot stand by and I have to call the murdered the murdered and I have to
call the murderers the murderers.


HAYES: That comment caught the attention of the New York City Police Union
which said in a statement, "It`s no surprise that someone who makes a
living glorifying crime and violence is a cop hater, too. The police
officers that Quentin Tarantino calls `murderers` aren`t living in one of
his depraved big screen fantasies. They`re risking and sometimes
sacrificing their lives to protect communities from real crime and mayhem.

New Yorkers need to send a message to this purveyor of degeneracy that he
has no business coming to our city to peddle his slanderous cop fiction.
It`s time for a boycott of Quentin Tarantino`s film."

Similar boycotts have been called for by police unions in New Jersey,
Philadelphia, Chicago, Houston, and Los Angeles, as well as the National
Association of Police Organizations who represents over 200,000 officers.

The controversy has been covered by a wide spectrum of media from FOX News
entertainment programs and outrage over the comments has reached to
Congress, which we will get to in a moment. Tarantino`s remarks at that
rally in October 24th within days of the shooting death of New York City
Police Officer Randolph Holder. Some critics of Tarantino like the head of
the L.A. Police Protective League, Lieutenant Craig Lawle, are pointing to
that timing of that, calling it a, quote, "stunning lack of sensitivity".

Tarantino says he is not backing down, telling "The L.A. Times", quote,
"All cops are not murderers. I never said that. I never even implied
that." He added, "I`m not a cop hater. That is a misrepresentation. That
is slanderous. That is not how I feel."

Joining me now to tell us how he feels, Director Quentin Tarantino.

A pleasure to have you on. Thank you very much.

I want to read for you the transcript of that statement that has gotten so
much attention.


HAYES: And just ask you to elaborate. So, this is what you said. You
said, you now, "What am I doing here? I`m doing here because I`m a human
being with a conscience. And when I see murder, I cannot stand by and I
have to call the murdered the murdered and I have to call the murderers the

What do you mean by that?

TARANTINO: Well, we were at a rally that was dealing with unarmed people,
mostly black and brown, who have been shot and killed or beaten or
strangled by the police. And I was obviously referring to the people in
those type of situations.

I was referring to Eric Gardner. I was referring to Sam Dubois. I was
referring to Antonio Lopez Guzman. I was referring to Tamir Rice. That`s
what I was referring to.

HAYES: You`re referring to specific cases in which a police use of force
has taken the life of someone in a way you feel was murder?

TARANTINO: Yes. I believe -- yes, in those cases in particular we are
talking about, I actually do believe that they were murder.

Now, in the case of Walter Scott who is the man running in the park and was
shot in the back and the case of Sam Dubois, I believe those were murder
and they were deemed murder. And the reason and the only reason they were
deemed murder because the incidences were caught on video.

However, if they had not been caught on video, the murderers would have
gotten away with their murder. In the case of Eric Gardner, in the case of
Tamir Rice, I believe that those were murders but they were exonerated.

HAYES: There`s something about that word, obviously, which has set off
police unions and many police officers. Why do you think -- were you
surprised by the -- frankly, the vitriol with which they have responded to
those comments?

TARANTINO: Yes. I was surprised. I was under the impression I was an
American and that I had First Amendment rights and there was no problem
with me going to an anti-police brutality protest and speaking my mind.

And just because I was at an anti-police brutality protest doesn`t mean I`m
anti-police. And, basically, you know, there was a lot of people at that
rally and we were all crying for -- we were crying for a lot of things but
there`s one thing in particular which was, stop shooting unarmed people.
We want justice. But stop shooting unarmed people.

But they don`t want to deal with that. They would rather -- they would
rather start arguments with celebrities than examine the concerns put
before them by a citizenry that has lost trust in them.

HAYES: So, I was -- when I first saw the news of this, my first thought
was, what was Quentin Tarantino doing at this -- at this march in New York
City? How did you come to be at that event?

TARANTINO: Well, the organization who put it on was -- it`s called Rise Up
October. And they got in touch with me because I had made statements in
some interviews, you know, along the way, that has suggested that I`m on
their side when it comes to this issue of -- you know, ultimately, what I
feel is a problem of white supremacy in this country.

And they realized -- they gathered that I was on their side and they
approached me about it and they explained the situation to me and I was
happy to show up. And the reason I was happy to show up and what we were
doing there was -- it was a three-day rally. I took part in two days of

The main thing that we were trying to do there was stop -- there`s a lot of
statistics going around about how many people have -- unarmed people killed
by the police. But we want them to stop being numbers. We want them to
stop being statistics, and start being people who were once living and
breathing and now dead, and the idea to go there and say their names and to
show their pictures and to send the families over to New York and tell
their stories about what happened, and really, for us to bear witness to
those stories.

And the other day of the rally, which was the march, was the demand justice
and demand that the police stop shooting unarmed people.

HAYES: Do you think -- I saw a number of people talk about this, a number
of critics, and police officers reference the shooting death of Officer
Holder which had happened a few days beforehand and was obviously
tremendously tragic, and awful for the city, and for police officer`s

Do you think that you were being insensitive by saying this, as some have
alleged essentially, you know, with this being within a week of this

TARANTINO: Well, the timing was very unfortunate. And his death, that
officer`s death, is a tragedy. I acknowledge that 100 percent. And my
heart goes out to him and goes out to his loved ones.

However, the point of the rally was to bring these families. We had over
40 families, not 40 people but 40 different families this has happened to
come out and tell their stories and say their -- say their loved one`s
name, and that`s what`s not being talked about.


TARANTINO: And so, what? Because that happened we`re going to say, oh no,
no. Don`t tell your story. I know we flew you out here. We`re going to
fly you back and do it another time. It`s just not convenient.

HAYES: You were the subject of a fairly interesting speech on the house of
-- the floor of the House of Representatives today from a Texas
congressman. I want to play you a little bit of that if you would like to

This is Congressman Ted Poe of Texas inveighing against Quentin Tarantino.
Take a listen.


REP. TED POE (R), TEXAS: He referred to peace officers as murderers. His
hateful rhetoric called for violence against law enforcement, saying, I
have a call -- I have to call a murderer a murderer and I have to call a
murder a murder. And that he adding that he is on the side of the ones who
confront and are confronted by police.

His comments encourage mischief and crimes against peace officers. For the
haters to justify lawlessness in response to perceived lawless acts by the
police is idiotic.


HAYES: A response to the congressman?

TARANTINO: Well, that`s not what I said. You`ve actually -- you -- it`s
easy enough to find out what I said because I didn`t say that much. You
actually had my entire speech there on your thing.

You know, that`s -- that`s their way. They`re being inflammatory. They`re
slandering me. I`m not a cop hater. But Patrick Lynch -- that`s the way
they attack me, is calling me a cop hater. That`s the way that Milwaukee
County Sheriff David Clarke who was on FOX all the time says that I`m
putting police in danger standing up for the rights of unarmed citizens who
have been killed by the police.

But at the same time, they say that about anybody that acknowledges a
problem of law enforcement in this country right now is considered by law
enforcement part of the problem, whether that be me, whether that be Bill
de Blasio, whether that be President Barack Obama who in the case of both
Patrick Lynch and David Clark have accused all three of us of this action.

HAYES: Yes. Is that -- is that what you think this is about and why you
have -- they have seized on this comment and given it as much life as it
has been given?

TARANTINO: Well, yes. Like I said, I mean, it`s much easier to feign
outrage and start arguments with celebrities than it is to deal with the
fact that they have -- the citizenry has lost trust in them also.

But there`s also another thing going on absolutely. There were 300 people
in that march. They`re not dealing with the issues that we were talking
about which you would think they`d want to deal with at least to some
degree or another. No. They want to demonize me, they want to slander me,
imply that I`m saying things that I didn`t say, and then, but -- for what

HAYES: Can I --

TARANTINO: And the reason is because they want me to shut up and they want
to make sure that no other people like me, prominent citizens, will stand
up for that side.

HAYES: Let me ask you this. You have a movie coming out and you`re
promoting it and been in the works and people have written a lot about it.
It`s widely anticipated I think it`s fair to say. Have you gotten pressure
from anyone to just basically shut up and apologize and keep it moving?

TARANTINO: No. Not necessarily. I mean, you know, I`m sure that the
company that`s producing the movie, I`m sure this is a pain in the butt
that they wish they didn`t have to deal with. At the same time, that same
company released the movie "Fruitvale Station". So, they`re very --you
know, they`re very aware of the problem. And they stand behind me.

HAYES: All right. I should make the point here, the statements that we`re
reading are from police unions which don`t necessarily always particularly
in tone or in sentiment encapsulate all police officers` thoughts on the
matter. There`s a sort of tone to police union statements that we have
come to expect after these that tend to be maximalist.

I mean, have you had conversations with police officers in the wake of

TARANTINO: Not as of -- not as of yet. I`m hoping that that is going to
start happening sometime -- you know, I`m hoping that`s going to start
happening sometime in the next week or so.

And I agree with you about these mouthpieces saying what they`re saying.
They`re calling for a boycott. And, you know, maybe that boycott will

But maybe it won`t, because I have a whole lot of police officer who are
big fans of my work, and they`re not going to take Patrick Lynch`s word on
what I said. They`re going to read what I said. They`ll watch this show.
They`ll hear what I have to say. And I think they`ll make up their own
mind and we`ll see what happens.

HAYES: All right. Quentin Tarantino, thank you very much for your time
tonight, sir. Appreciate it.

TARANTINO: My pleasure.

HAYES: All right.

Still to come, as Jeb Bush`s polling hits new lows, he faces a huge
battleground that`s still open for the taking as the candidates set their
sights on New Hampshire.

Stay with us.



DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So we picked the worst photo taken
of me. I would have loved to have had a beautiful, smiling picture but
somehow that doesn`t go with the title of the book or frankly the contents
of the book.


CHRIS HAYES, ALL IN SHOW HOST: On the very first page is the preface of
his brand new book, "Crippled America," Donald Trump reveals why he chose
his cover photo. "I wanted a picture where I wasn`t happy, a picture that
reflected the anger and unhappiness that I feel rather than joy." That`s
as far as we got in the book. Fortunately, Guardian and Rolling Stone
columnist, Jeb Lund, read the rest of it for us.


TRUMP: It`s selling like hotcakes so we`ll see.


HAYES: Joining me now is Jeb Lund, columnist of Guardian and Rolling
Stone. All right, Jeb. Your impressions of "Crippled America"?

like a natural analogy to you, but in many ways this reminded me of the
1980`s action film "Gymkata" which combined the discipline and timing of
gymnastics with the power of karate, in a sense that this combines the
empty gloriation of a campaign book with the sort of off the cuff wildness
of Donald Trump, which, you know, from a rational perspective it is not
fun and shouldn`t be and yet it really is.

HAYES: So, it was good read?

LUND: Yeah. I mean, unlike most of the these books, you get the sense
that Donald Trump really did write this and, in fact, he probably wrote
this, like, with an ear piece while driving a car or something, just
dictating to somebody down the end of the line.

Because it just sort of veers from topic to topic and, you know, he might
be taking on China and then he`ll just stop to air these grievances. And,
you know, you get the sense, really the only editing process was a guy sort
of going through and removing the moments when Trump said, "you know, we`re
going to fix this, the - the thing - the doohickey."

And so that`s removed. But everything else, this sort of leaping from
topic to topic is still there.

HAYES: So, my question about this is, you know, he wrote this very
quickly, and I say wrote lightly. I mean, I think you`re probably right,
this was probably a dictated enterprise. But he`s got a stump speech now.
I mean, if you hear his, you know, he basically does the same (speech). Is
there anything different in the book than the stump speech?

LUND: Yeah. Actually, there`s a striking bit, sort of about two-thirds of
the way through which sounds very popular. He says, "A few years ago,
Moody`s, the financial investment agency, calculated that every $1 of
Federal money invested in improving the infrastructure for highways and
public schools, would generate $1.44 back to the economy.

If we do what we have to do correctly, we can create the biggest economic
boon in this country since the new deal. And it sort of reminds you of
those populous notes that he was hitting at the beginning of his campaign
what it sounded like he might go after other Donald Trump-like figures, and
you just sort of wonder what might have been.

HAYES: In the pantheon of campaign books, you`re now on your third, where
does this stack up?

LUND: Well, this book, this is the most beautiful, most exclusive campaign
book available on the market. It`s lovely. Everyone enjoys it. I feel
very, very bad for the haters and losers who can`t see that. But naturally
again, please don`t read the book.

HAYES: Jeb Lund, oh, man, doing the old man`s work. Thank you again. And
we got to figure out what we got up next for you. Thank you.

LUND: Thank you.

HAYES: Coming up, two months after the massive manhunt following the
shooting death of an Illinois police officer, today`s stunning announcement
about what really happened. That story is next.


CRAIG MELVIN, MSNBC ANCHOR: We continue to follow that breaking news on
the massive manhunt for three suspected cop killers in Fox Lake, Illinois.
It`s just north -- about an hour northwest of Chicago. An officer is dead.
The suspects are on the run right now.

HAYES: A little over two months ago, all eyes are on the small village of
Fox Lake, Illinois, where, on the morning of September 1st, a police
officer had been found unconscious with a gunshot wound after telling a
dispatcher he was pursuing two white males and a black male.

The officer, Lt. Joe Gliniewicz, succumbed to his wounds, and over a dozen
law enforcement agencies in the area launched an enormous manhunt for the
three suspects deploying helicopters, dogs and about 400 officers searching
door-to-door within a radius of over 2 miles.

Just a few days earlier, on August 28th, a sheriff`s deputy in Houston had
been fatally shot at a gas station while filling up his police cruiser.
And those two incidents in such short succession amounted to conclusive
evidence for some of a "War On Cops," (fueled) by President Obama and the
`Black Lives Matter` Movement.

Then presidential candidate, Scott Walker, penned an op-ed for HotAir,
blaming the President for "a rise in anti-police rhetoric" leading to
"disturbing trend of police officers being murdered on the job."

Pat Buchanan accused President Obama of being "a conscientious objector in
the "`War On Cops`" and Fox News trotted out the string of law enforcement
officials to incredibility to the so-called phenomenon.


of the United States because he waded into this and the days after Ferguson
with some inflammatory rhetoric where he breathed life into this anti-cop
sentiment that now exists in the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t talk about disparities in the criminal
justice system unless you talk about disparities of victimization. One
person could bridge that gap most effectively, so far he`s only talked
about half of the equation.

MATT LEWIS, SHERIFF, MESA COUNTY, COLORADO: You bet it`s open season on
law enforcement across this country. American Law Enforcement right now
are under siege. We recognize it. We see it everywhere we go and you can
rest assured as you all know this all started on the false lie, this
premise down in Ferguson, Missouri, hands up, don`t shoot. "Black Lives
Matter." All based on a lie.


HAYES: About a week after Lt. Gliniewicz`s death, the Lake County coroner
told a reporter, right now all unnatural deaths are up for suggestion, that
means, homicide, suicide, accident undetermined. That was a bit strange,
and then set off a new round of rumors and speculation prompting one of
Gliniewicz`s sons to give an interview defending his father, claiming his
father had never had a single suicidal thought. Investigators largely
remain silent citing the ongoing investigation. Today, after two months,
they finally announced their conclusions.


Gliniewicz`s death was a carefully staged suicide. We have determined this
staged suicide was the end result of extensive criminal acts that
Gliniewicz had been committing.


HAYES: According to the investigators, the man known in the community as
G.I. Joe had been embezzling money through a youth police program called
the "Explorer" for seven years.

Now, in the morning of September 1st, fearing he was about to be
discovered, Gliniewicz shot himself.

Two of those investigators join me now, Chief George Filenko, he`s
Commander of Lake County Major Crimes Task Force and Detective Christopher
Covelli, the spokesperson for the Lake County Sheriff`s Department.

Gentlemen, let me ask you this. Over these last two months, can you give
us some sense of where in the timeline there started to be very strong
suspicions that this did not go down the way it was originally understood
to have gone down?

FILENKO: We started suspecting that -- we started moving away from the
theory that this was a homicide in a relatively short amount of time in the
last I`d say, two weeks or so.

We obtained a substantial amount of evidence, text messages, bank records,
primarily the text messages were interesting as to they were very
incriminating and it painted a picture over a six-month period of a person
who was beginning to feel trapped and a person that was making some
incriminating statements, very incriminating statements regarding criminal

HAYES: I want to make sure, Mr. Filenko, that I understand you here. When
you say two weeks, you saying in the last two weeks or in the first two
weeks you abandoned the homicide theory you started to move away from it?

FILENKO: No. We consider this a homicide investigation and we still kept
proceeding along for the last couple of months as -- as a homicide
investigation. We started receiving information based on subpoenas and
court orders that we had issued several weeks ago, and in the past two
weeks all of that information started to surface and we began an analysis
of that information. Including bank records and like I stated, over 6,500
deleted text messages that Gliniewicz have deleted we believe shortly
before the staged suicide.

HAYES: Mr. Covelli, there was an audit that was happening of the
department and that the theory, as I understand it as reflected in the text
messages, that Mr. Gliniewicz thought this would catch him.

One of the questions the people automatically have is, didn`t you guys know
about this audit? Weren`t people able to sort of put two and two together

DEPARTMENT: Well, the thing with the audit is he was asked to audit
specific Explorer equipments that he oversaw. He was asked to compile the
data and provide it to village management.

Through reading these text messages, and going back during that time, there
was no audit asked of any financials or any bank accounts or anything of
that nature. It was specific to actual physical items.

Going back to his text messages it became very clear, he was very concerned
that the next step from the village was going to be asking for some sort of
audit or verification of funds in the bank account.

So the task force subpoenaed those records and received records back which
it takes some time to receive subpoenaed responses back, but once we
started compiling these records and FBI forensic accountant assisted us
with the analysis of these records and it became very clear the past seven
years he`s been using this as his own personal slush fund

HAYES: You know, this case sent -- there was a lot of strange coverage of
this case. It was a very strange situation. It was a very pressing
national story. The manhunt was very pressing. It then appeared to kind
of just tail off with the supposition being that three people who had
murdered a police officer had managed to escape, and then September 11th.

In a news release, Thursday, high-ranking police who have provided limited
information about the 52-year-old officer`s death, September 1st, chastised
the coroner for his comments to the media in which he did not rule out
suicide, calling him unprofessional and completely irresponsible. Was that
a mistake?

FILENKO: The coroner`s office has had a gentleman`s agreement with the
Task Force and other law enforcement agencies in the county specifically
related to homicide investigations.

These are extremely sensitive cases, and a release of information prior to
being vetted through the investigators or the investigative units, could
lead to problematic issues down the road, if or when an arrest is made and
a prosecution is sought.

The statement got its point across. We`ve had an extremely productive
relationship with the coroner since. And I would say we`re moving forward
and continue to garner an extremely positive relationship with the coroner.

HAYES: The Chicago Sun Times editorial board has called for an apology
from you, from the investigators, from the police saying that the moment
Lieutenant Gliniewicz was found dead, the Lake County investigator
downplayed any notion he might have committed suicide lashing out of those
who did instead by means of selective pronouncements and a slowly-paced

They waited more than two weeks to get lab results on ballistics and
gunshot residue. They fed the hero story line. Do you owe anyone an

FILENKO: No. We conducted this case in a systematic, chronological,
investigative manner. You can look at this case as being a gigantic puzzle
with many pieces and no set map. It took quite some time to put the pieces
of that puzzle together and come to this conclusion. We`re never going to
rush to judgment. We`re never going to rush to judgment and completely
ignore facts and -

HAYES: Okay.


HAYES: Thank you, Chief George Filenko, Detective Christopher Covelli, for
joining me tonight. I appreciate it.

COVELLI: Thank you.

FILENKO: Thank you, too.

HAYES: All right. Just ahead, the crucial early state that right now is
wide open in the Republican race.


HAYES: Much more still ahead including the seeming flailing of the Jeb for
President Campaign and the increasing importance in New Hampshire in 2016.
We`ll go live to the granite state ahead.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you look at where you are, I mean --

JEB BUSH, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is not near. It is not near.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... you (fall out) this morning 4%. And did you ever
think you would be --

BUSH: I don`t even care. It`s not relevant.

HAYES: The certain theory I`ve seen floated about Jeb Bush which is that
deep down he doesn`t really want to be president. Evidence of this theory,
admittedly speculative, but just the other day, NBC`s Chuck Todd asked the
one-time frontrunner about it directly.


CHUCK TODD, MEET THE PRESS MODERATOR: Do you still want to be president?

BUSH: I do. I do. I see great possibilities for our country. I honestly
believe we`re on the verge of greatness. We have to fix some really big
complex things and I have the leadership skills to do it and I`m fired up
about that. That`s -- that`s what motivates me.


HAYES: Bush is in New Hampshire today taking part in what "The Associated
Press" has called Jeb Bush`s campaign revival tour. Traveling in a blue
tour bus with a slogan Jeb Can Fix It plastered on each side.

And so far, hasn`t really been much of a resurgence. Yesterday, Jeb
appeared to walk back the wisecrack about the French workweek he made
during the last GOP debate, telling "Time Magazine," "I made a mistake of
saying that congress operates on a French workweek." That really did a
disservice to the French.

As an aside apologizing to the French is generally not the best way to win
a GOP primary. Then there are his national poll numbers which are in the
low single digits.

The most recent Quinnipiac University survey released today, Jeb Bush has
dropped to just 4%. Although I will say this for Jeb, three months before
the Iowa caucuses, national polls are not what you should be worried about.
He`s right about that.

Currently, the national frontrunner spot belongs to Ben Carson, who, for
the first time, has dethroned Donald Trump from atop the real clear
politics national polling average where he sat ever since July 19th, a full
107 days.

But if you ignore national numbers for the moment and zero in on New
Hampshire, you will notice it`s a very tight wide open race where even John
Kasich is within striking distance.

Today was the start of sign-up day in New Hampshire and candidates
officially file their papers for the State`s presidential primary.
According to New Hampshire Union leader, Donald Trump was the first
Republican to file and we will take you to the granite state next.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re seeing you in New Hampshire today with Iowa
last week. Iowa, a huge crowd, big reception. Which city are you focusing
on the most as you look ahead?

luxury. We want - we want to be successful in as many places as possible.
We love being in New Hampshire and Iowa, South Carolina, too, Nevada. So
we`re going to be getting around but we`ll be here quite a bit.

HAYES: Joining me from New Hampshire tonight, Sabrina Siddiqui. She`s
reporter for the "Guardian" and she has been following around Marco Rubio
and other candidates.

So here`s my analysis, Sabrina. I want you to tell me how it feels there
on the ground. Basically, Iowa voted for Huckabee, voted or Santorum, the
last two go-arounds. No one is looking at it to crown the frontrunner.

It makes New Hampshire that much more important particularly if you price
in someone like Ben Carson or Donald Trump might win Iowa and the (weight)
it is polling, if we can show it, shows that New Hampshire is still totally
wide open, 18 Carson, 16 Trump, 11 Rubio who shut up, 10 for Kasich.

It really does feel like it - that is going to be a huge moment in this
campaign of who can take that state.

mentioned that poll so you do see outsiders like Ben Carson and Donald
Trump still leading the pack over here. But Marco Rubio in that same poll,
his support has tripled since where he was in September.

So you really do see that shift that has occurred since both the second and
the third presidential debate, and you could feel that here on the ground,
too. He packed the town hall here in New Hampshire. There are people
watching Rubio from outside in an overflow area.

They were very -- he was very warmly received and at the other end of the
stage, Jeb Bush was trying to revive his own campaign, acknowledging that
he has to get better, whether or not he has the time to do that remains to
be seen.

HAYES: Yeah. And if you`re Jeb Bush, I mean, I honestly think that he is
right to ignore national polls. We should note that New Hampshire has not
been very kind to the Bush family. George H.W. Bush lost it to Patrick
Buchanan, George W. Bush lost it to John McCain. So it`s not like there`s
a well of good feeling, but he is still - he is not out of it in New
Hampshire, point being.

SIDDIQUI: Oh, absolutely not. A lot of voters I spoke to that saw Jeb
Bush`s event last night and this morning said they haven`t made up their
mind, and although a lot of the media attention is around his campaign
struggles, his weak performance in last week`s debate, it`s way too soon to
write anyone off.

Jeb Bush also got a pretty resounding welcome in a town hall that he did.
One of the things he clearly has done is he really was speaking with a lot
of energy for lack of a better way of putting it. The attacks from Donald
Trump that he lacks energy, he was so fired up at these events, Jeb Bush,
that he was practically shouting in some of those moments and he really
wanted to at least project that he wants to win this thing and he vowed
that he will be the candidate who were going to win New Hampshire.

HAYES: That`s a great phrase, Sabrina. He wants to project that he wants
to win this thing. Sabrina Siddiqui in New Hampshire. Thank you very

All right. That is "All In" for this evening. Now, tomorrow night, we
will have Elizabeth Warren on the show, so you want to make sure you`re
tuned for that, and on Friday, do not forget (in catching) Democratic Forum
hosted by the one, the only, Rachel Maddow, exclusively on MSNBC and the
aforementioned Rachel Maddow, her show which begins right now.


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