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'The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell' for Monday, November 30th, 2015

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Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL
Date: November 30, 2015
Guest: Vicki Cowart, David Cohen, Eli Berman, Jacob Shapiro, Jonathan
Allen, Maria Teresa Kumar

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC: That does it for us tonight, we`ll see you again
tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good
evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST, THE LAST WORD: Rachel, you`ve got to give it to
those editors, they are not afraid of picking a loser.

(LAUGHTER)

MADDOW: That`s right, and in New Jersey, they are not afraid of picking on
their governor.

O`DONNELL: That`s right --

MADDOW: It makes for a very exciting stuff. Thanks Lawrence --

O`DONNELL: Thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Well, terrorism has a new face tonight in America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The suspected Planned Parenthood shooter appears in
court.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Told he is been held on suspicion of first degree
murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Though authorities are not making a direct connection
as far as motive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a form of terrorism and maybe in some way it`s a
function of the acclamatory rhetoric that we see.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: The media probably wants to blame him on the pro
life movement, when at this point there`s very little evidence to indicate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is typical left-wing tactics.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People have to understand that hateful rhetoric and
words and harassment of doctors and harassment of women going to health
centers have real implications.

DONALD TRUMP, CHAIRMAN & PRESIDENT, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATIONS & FOUNDER,
TRUMP ENTERTAINMENT RESORTS: We had a meeting today that was amazing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The private meeting with 100 black pastors and
religious leaders as some of the attendees took issue with the Trump
campaign`s claim that the pastors were meant to endorse Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His campaign abruptly canceled the planned press
conference.

TRUMP: I don`t think we had backlash. I mean, I saw love in that room, I
see --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes --

TRUMP: Love everywhere I go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: The man accused of murdering three people at a Planned
Parenthood clinic in Colorado, Springs, Friday, made his first court
appearance this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The initial charge against you is murder in the first
degree. The penalty for that charge is (INAUDIBLE) of life in prison and
maximum of death. Do you have any questions about any of these rights,
sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Nothing more on that, just no questions. Fifty seven-year-old
Robert Dear`s court appearance was via closed-circuit television from the
jail where he`s being held without bond.

Robert Dear is expected to be formally charged next Wednesday. Robert Dear
is accused of killing a police officer and two people who were visiting the
clinic and wounding nine others during a five-hour standoff that ended when
he surrendered.

Two law enforcement sources told Nbc News that Robert Dear ranted about
politics and abortions during questioning and at one point said, "no more
body parts."

That apparently in reference to Planned Parenthood. Robert Dear`s neighbor
reported repeatedly hearing him attack President Obama. Hillary Clinton
had this reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: The shooting on Friday was at,
as you know, a Planned Parenthood clinic.

A place where lots of women get healthcare they need; breast exams, STD
testing, contraception and, yes, safe and legal abortions.

We should be supporting Planned Parenthood, not attacking it.

(APPLAUSE)

And it is way past time for us to protect women`s health and respect
women`s rights, not use them as political footballs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Bernie Sanders said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), VERMONT: I am running for president because in
these difficult times, against vitriolic Republican rhetoric, we must
protect a woman`s right to choose.

(APPLAUSE)

And we must defend Planned Parenthood. And I know, I know that I speak for
every person in this room when we send our condolences to the families of
those who were killed in Friday`s attack at Planned Parenthood in Colorado.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Here is the frontrunner for the Republican presidential
nomination on "Meet the Press" yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, MODERATOR, MEET THE PRESS: We have reporting that he was
talking about baby parts and things like that from law enforcement
officials during --

TRUMP: Well --

TODD: His interview --

TRUMP: I will tell you there is a tremendous group of people that think
it`s terrible -- all over the videos that they`ve seen, with some of these
people from Planned Parenthood talking about it like you`re selling parts
to a car.

I mean, there are a lot of people that are very unhappy about that. Now, I
know some of the tapes were perhaps not pertinent.

I know that a couple of people that were running for office or are running
for office on the Republican side were commenting on tapes that weren`t
appropriate.

But there were many tapes that are appropriate and in terms of commenting
on and there are people that are extremely upset about it.

It looks like you`re talking about parts to some machine or something and
they`re not happy about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: And here is what Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz had
to say in Iowa today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: This was a despicable homicide. This was an individual who is
deranged. And I will say it`s unfortunate to see so many folks in the
press bending over backwards to try to use this horrible crime to advance a
political agenda.

This man is a deranged murderer. We don`t know at this point what his
motivations were, although we can see the press eagerly salivating to
suggest that this particular murderer might have been a Republican.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Joining us now Vicki Cowart, President and CEO of Planned
Parenthood, Rocky Mountains. This happened under your jurisdiction there.

And apparently you made -- you had some expectation of this possibility via
training and various precautions you had taken. Could you tell us about
that?

VICKI COWART, PRESIDENT & CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, PLANNED PARENTHOOD,
ROCKY MOUNTAINS: Well, good evening, let me make it clear.

We had no advance warning of this event, but at Planned Parenthood, we are
very concerned and careful about the safety of all of our employees.

We place the well-being and safety of our patients and our employees at the
top of our list. And so, yes, we do have security measures and we do take
our training around those security measures very seriously.

The group -- in fact, all of our group, all of our health centers and even
our administrative offices do intruder training, shooter training, if you
will, and all of our folks do go through this on a fairly regular basis.

O`DONNELL: When did you start that? I mean, I imagine 25 years ago Planned
Parenthood did not have a training like this.

COWART: You know, we`ve been doing it as long as I have been with the
organization. And I will admit that we have gotten more serious about it.

We track, we make sure that everybody goes through it. But I`ll stress to
you that we also do tornado training.

So, this is about making sure no matter what happens, our patients and our
staff are protected and they`re safe. We want to provide a safe, warm,
welcoming, confidential setting for healthcare.

O`DONNELL: What about the staff? Have you at Planned Parenthood had any
experience with people deciding, you know what? This is just too dangerous,
I`m not going to work here anymore?

COWART: I think people do leave the organization for a variety of reasons.
And probably some of them may think that -- most of us walk past some
protesters every day, and we hear the nasty comments, the terrible things
they shout at us.

But I will -- I will say to you, I`ve been with a lot of our staff today
and been in touch with some of the folks down in Colorado Springs.

The commitment that Planned Parenthood people have to the mission of
providing the women and men in our communities, good, high-quality
reproductive healthcare is astonishing.

And despite those taunts, despite some of the dangers that may be
perceived, people come in. Our health centers in Colorado and across our
region were open on Saturday.

And again, today, people proudly posted over the weekend on their Facebook,
I`m going in, I`ll be at work on Monday. And they were, we were open today
across our system.

O`DONNELL: And do you have plans for reopening the clinic in Colorado
Springs?

COWART: Absolutely. We`re doing a lot of care-taking with the people
there. We will rebuild. We don`t actually have access to the site yet.

We hope that we`ll be able to take it back, the police will hand it back
over to us at some point this week and we`ll be able to assess the damage.

We know that the damage is pretty extreme. But we absolutely are committed
to that community. We`ve been serving, Colorado Springs for decades.

And we feel a really strong -- I mean, Colorado Springs is our community.
We are of that community. And so we are definitely committed to reopening.

O`DONNELL: Vicki Cowart, thank you very much for joining us tonight,
really appreciate it.

COWART: You bet.

O`DONNELL: We`re joined now by Joy Reid, Msnbc national correspondent and
David Cohen, a Professor at Drexel University`s Kline School of Law and the
co-author of "Living in the Crosshairs: The Untold Stories of Anti-Abortion
Terrorism".

Joy Reid, we`ve come to the point where working at a Planned Parenthood in
America is a dangerous occupation.

JOY REID, MSNBC NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, and as somebody
who grew up in Denver, Colorado, knows Colorado Springs very well, it is a
highly evangelical community.

It`s sort of interesting -- Denver is a sort of liberal community and then
you have Colorado Springs, we have this big evangelical base.

And I grew up in the era of operation and rescue where you had the really
scary confrontations between anti-abortion activists, in a lot of cases who
were threatening violence against clinic workers.

And somebody who got my basic healthcare from Planned Parenthood -- when I
graduated from college, I had no money.

And so, even in New York, you know, Planned Parenthood was where I got all
my healthcare, whether it`s birth control or not.

It`s eerie to sort of think about the danger to which these clinicians who
I just became used to it, just normal healthcare providers.

The fact that they go to work every day under that kind of fear and duress,
that kind of actual terror. That is the essence of what terrorism is,
being afraid to go to work.

And as somebody who has used Planned Parenthood, I can tell you, women are
going -- that get basic healthcare.

The idea you have to do that in fear because there are fellow Americans who
are threatening violence against you and against your healthcare providers,
it`s sort of surreal.

O`DONNELL: David Cohen, some people don`t want to use the word terrorism
in association with this event.

They just want to say, this was one deranged gunman and it could have been
anywhere, it could have been a movie theater, it could have been anywhere.

DAVID COHEN, LAW PROFESSOR, DREXEL UNIVERSITY, THOMAS KLINE SCHOOL OF LAW:
You know, that`s just an absolutely wrong way to look at this.

This takes place amidst the context in which there`s been this kind of
violence and hateful rhetoric that`s been going on for decades.

There have been before Friday, eight murders in this country since 1993.
There have been arsons, there have been bombings.

There have been stalking of providers following them home, picketing their
homes, following their children to school. Abortion providers and abortion
clinics deal with this kind of fear on a regular basis.

And yet, they still create these wonderfully warm environments and caring
environments for their patients because this is basic healthcare.

And women will get abortions and find these clinics and find their
healthcare provider no matter what. But they shouldn`t have to go through
this. The patients who go see these clinics or the providers who are --
who stuff them.

O`DONNELL: Well, the -- and in terms of the terrorism in this particular
case, Joy, this wasn`t targeting a physician or someone --

REID: Right --

O`DONNELL: Who the person believes is actually performing the abortions.

REID: Yes --

O`DONNELL: This is, if you go anywhere near a Planned Parenthood, if you
just go as a friend, accompanying a friend --

REID: Right --

O`DONNELL: As one of the women who was -- the woman who was killed, you
are taking your life in your hands to go --

REID: Yes --

O`DONNELL: Anywhere near the place. That is terror.

REID: That is terror because remember, the George Tiller murder took place
at his church, it didn`t take place at his clinic. This was following the
person, the man to his place of worship.

In the case of going all the way back -- operation and rescue, and some of
these other groups that targeted the place of work, you`re actually talking
about 99 percent of the women who are going to Planned Parenthood are going
for either birth control, basic checkups.

You know --

O`DONNELL: Yes --

REID: Those of us who have used Planned Parenthood used them primarily for
basic healthcare; breast exams, just clinical checkups, your annual medical
exams that are required as a woman to make sure you don`t have cancer.

This is what women are going there for, and to have to walk through a
gauntlet of people who only see Planned Parenthood as some sort of
murderous operation that is forcing women into abortion.

You walk into a gauntlet of extremist. And what I think people are
forgetting --

COHEN: It`s --

REID: Is that it is terrorism because you`re terrorizing not just the
people who work there, but the women who are going there just to get care.

O`DONNELL: David, go ahead.

COHEN: Yes, it`s important to understand also that abortion is basic
healthcare. Almost one in three women in this country will have an
abortion.

It is basic healthcare. And whether it`s a Planned Parenthood that only
provides a small percentage of abortion or an independent abortion clinic
where almost everything they do is abortion.

All of those women should be able to walk in and get the healthcare they
need and everyone who works there should be able to work there without the
fear that there`s going to be some problem or at worse, some violence.

O`DONNELL: And David --

COHEN: And that is exactly what`s going on here.

O`DONNELL: David, quickly, before you go. Is this a new level of terror
since he was indiscriminately firing that gun in any direction, not
definitely targeting the medical personnel?

COHEN: It`s different, although we`ve seen things like this before. There
was a bombing in 1998 at a clinic that took place that could have gotten
anyone.

It got a security guard who was there, this was in Alabama. There have
been other violent acts that take place while people are there who are not
just the clinic workers.

But this is different. I mean, certainly, this is different in the other
murders that have taken place in the way that he was firing a gun
indiscriminately.

But it certainly fits with the long history of violence and the fact that
there are murders at these clinics.

O`DONNELL: David Cohen, thanks very much for joining us tonight. Coming
up, could the Islamic State fall, just fall on its own? Two authors who
have described that possibility will join me next.

And Donald Trump did not get the endorsement of dozens of African-American
preachers today as his campaign promised.

And on Twitter earlier today, I asked you to guess what this is --
@Briansneck(ph) tweeted some sort of a cart with a green covering.

OK, yes, that`s right, but, please, someone out there, try to guess what
that is. The answer is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: President Obama visited the site of the terrorist attack at the
Bataclan Theater where 89 people were murdered.

The President stood beside French President Francois Hollande and placed a
single white flower at the memorial outside the theater.

It was the President`s first stop during his visit to Paris. Coming up, a
new strategy for defeating the Islamic State, let the Islamic State defeat
itself, that`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: President Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin met on the
sidelines of the climate summit in Paris, they discussed the crisis in
Syria, according to the White House deputy national security adviser Ben
Rhodes said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN RHODES, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: A lot of the
focus with President Putin today dealt with the political process that has
been under way in Vienna.

The President reiterated that this is an area where we all need to work
together and that frankly, making progress with respect to a political
dialogue and a cease-fire inside of Syria will also enable us together as
an international community to focus on ISIL.

That has been the focus of the U.S.-led coalition in Syria. We think that
should be the focus of the Russian military action in Syria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Vladimir Putin said this to reporters after the meeting. "We
have an understanding how we should proceed if we talk about a political
settlement.

We need to work on a new Syrian constitution, new elections and control
over their outcome." Joining us now, the co-authors of a new "POLITICO"
article entitled "Why ISIL Will Fail on Its Own".

Eli Berman, "POLITICO Magazine" contributor and Jacob Shapiro, also of
"POLITICO Magazine".

Mr. Berman, make your case about just how it would work that the Islamic
State would collapse on its own and what models we might have for this.

ELI BERMAN, CONTRIBUTOR, POLITICO MAGAZINE: Sure, Lawrence, it`s good to
be with you. I mean, the basic -- the basic word here is unsustainable.

ISIS, when you think of ISIS as a state, not as a terrorist organization,
but as a state, then it`s a failing state. It`s got three sources of
funds, oil, perhaps antiquities and its ability to tax its own population.

And the oil is going to run out especially if they don`t have engineers to
take care of those wells. The antiquities have a limited market anyway,
you could only loot them once.

And so, what they`re going to fall back on or what they`re falling back on
already is their ability to tax or extort their own population.

And all the reports suggest that they`re overtaxing in a way that`s making
the people, the capital, and the human capital, just run and flee.

And so as a country, as an organization, they`re just not going to be able
to meet their bills.

O`DONNELL: And Jacob Shapiro, what do you make of Vladimir Putin`s
statement today about the way he thought they -- that they -- he could
coordinate in some ways with the United States?

JACOB SHAPIRO, CONTRIBUTOR, POLITICO MAGAZINE: I think that makes a lot of
sense, Lawrence. The basic issue I think in getting a durable solution in
Syria is not defeating ISIL.

That will happen with time to smaller organization with no tax revenue,
it`s trying to fight a three-front war. The issue is convincing the sides
fighting it that there`s a political bargain that they can become part of.

And that requires the kind of coordinated action that President Putin is
arguing for and that President Obama has been pushing for.

O`DONNELL: And Mr. Berman, as an economics professor in your piece, you
draw a comparison to the collapse of the Soviet Union. How is that relevant
here?

BERMAN: Absolutely. You know, the Soviet Union collapsed not because we
invaded them, they collapsed because they imploded on their own.

As an economic ideology it failed. Now, ISIS as an (INAUDIBLE) or a
dash(ph) as an ideology of governance, they`re trying something that we
know from experience fails.

Basically a bunch of thugs looting a local population, that`s not a way
that you could possibly govern. So, if we -- if we left it alone, it would
eventually implode.

O`DONNELL: Mr. Shapiro, Lindsey Graham and others calling for troops on
the ground in -- U.S. troops and other troops on the ground in Syria.
What`s your reaction to that?

SHAPIRO: So, I think there`s not a lot of evidence that you can achieve.
The aims that they`re suggesting those troops will achieve with the numbers
that are in play.

So, this organization has been in existence since at least 2006, and for
that entire time has had the capacity to attempt attacks like the one in
Paris.

And that was true when it had -- when the United States had 160,000 forces
on the ground, it`s true today when we have none on the ground.

And so sending 20,000 forces in, yes, you could pull down audacious flag
from Raqqah with 20,000 American forces and air power. But that doesn`t
solve the problem of being able to engage in terrorism overseas.

That`s the problem you`re trying to solve, you need a political settlement,
and experience in that region shows you`re not going to get that by simply
taking the capital.

O`DONNELL: And Professor Berman, what about holding the capital? There`s -
- after we`ve had this experience in that region, that after you take a
place like that, you`re going to have to hold it for, what? A decade or
obviously longer than a decade.

BERMAN: No, Lawrence, and this is a key point, I`m glad you asked. What
our experience and what we search are myself, by Professor Shapiro and by
others has shown is that what you really have to do is install or help
somebody govern by themselves.

The Sunni majority areas of Iraq and Syria need governance that answers to
their needs. They`re trying to get enough from dash(ph), that`s going to
fail.

And so, a sustainable solution in the region for Syria and for Iraq
requires that Sunnis have somebody governing them who is actually
responsive and cares about the people they`re governing. That`s the hard
part.

O`DONNELL: Professors Eli Berman and Jacob Shapiro, thank you both for
joining us tonight. Coming up, the endorsements that Donald Trump did not
get today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Donald Trump picked up an endorsement today from someone who
has not been a major player in presidential politics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DARRELL SCOTT, REVEREND MINISTER: We had a very productive,
constructive meeting. We made history today --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes --

SCOTT: Because we had a meaningful dialogue with Mr. Donald Trump --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you endorsing him? --

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: I support Donald Trump --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you endorsing him?

SCOTT: And everybody knows -- everybody knows --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And not listen to --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you endorsing him?

SCOTT: Everybody knows that --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, are you --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Endorse, yes --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Endorsement?

SCOTT: Yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: That`s Pastor Darrell Scott from Ohio who along with other
African-American religious leaders met with Donald Trump today in New York.

The Trump campaign canceled a scheduled press conference after discovering
that almost everyone else at the meeting with Donald Trump would refuse to
endorse him.

Joining us now, Maria Teresa Kumar, President and CEO of Voto Latino and
host of "CHANGING AMERICA" on shift by Msnbc.

Also with us, Jonathan Allen, co-author of "HRC: State Secrets and the
Rebirth of Hillary Clinton".

Ad back with us, Joy Reid. Joy Reid, who were those guys? Who were those
people at that meeting? I have never seen Pastor Darrell Scott before --

REID: Yes --

O`DONNELL: So --

REID: Yes. You are not familiar with the good right Reverend Darrell
Scott.

O`DONNELL: No.

REID: So -- So, when I heard -- first heard about this meeting that is
going to take place, I immediately called friends of mine in Cleveland,
because Pastor Darrell Scott has a church in Cleveland Heights, Ohio, not
Cleveland.

O`DONNELL: Uh-huh.

REID: And, no one could tell me who he was. They had not heard of him.
The folks I talked to were very politically involved. Did not know him.
But, apparently, he has a church in Cleveland Heights. He is a friend of
Donald Trump for quite a few years.

He actually became friends with Donald Trump`s business manager about five
years ago. They formed a bond. He, himself, is an endorser of Donald
Trump. Now, the rest of the pastors that he invited to that meeting, and
if you go back and look at what you just showed --

O`DONNELL: So, he was kind of the leader of getting people there?

REID: He can be.

O`DONNELL: OK.

REID: Most of the people who came to the meeting had never met Donald
Trump before.

O`DONNELL: Uh-huh.

REID: He was, actually, bringing together pastors he knew to try to get
them interested in the Trump campaign. He is an endorser. Now, I think
what was more important in that video that you have just showed was the
woman off to his left. I guess, stage left, which is Omarosa Manigault,
who you can actually see the video right there. Omarosa.

(LAUGHING)

O`DONNELL: Who he met on a reality T.V. show.

REID: Who, actually, is herself a pastor.

O`DONNELL: Ah!

REID: Omarosa since being on "The Apprentice" has become a minister.

O`DONNELL: The many roles.

REID: So, she is actually one of the pastors who was at the event. And,
the interesting thing for Donald Trump is will Omarosa who is well-known,
of course, to America through "The Apprentice" -- will she endorse Donald
Trump, because she would, actually be the highest profile endorser in that
group, not Pastor Scott, who is not well-known.

O`DONNELL: Well, Maria Teresa, she was on this network -- gee, I think --
It was on one of the weekend shows in the morning, months ago, saying, no,
she would not support him, that she was a democrat. And, so, there is
there is video of that somewhere in the tank here at MSNBC. But, so, here
is Donald Trump in his big appeal to broaden his base today.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR, VOTO LATINO PRESIDENT: So, I think --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have many, many endorsements
that came out of the meeting. I do not think we have backlash. I saw love
in that room. I see love everywhere I go.

OMAROSA MANIGAULT, FORMER "THE APPRENTICE" CONTESTANT: Are you going to
change your tone going forward?

TRUMP: Well, you know, the tone has taken me to first position in every
single poll, including state and including national polls. The beautiful
thing about the meeting is they really did not ask me to change the tone.
I think they want to see victory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Maria Teresa, can you imagine a meeting like that where they
would not ask him to change the tone?

KUMAR: Not at all. But, what I find really interesting is that it is the
old world way of doing politicking with the new world of politicking coming
to the head, right? So, even ten years ago, it would be very easy that he
could have met with African-American pastors. No one would have known the
better.

And, all of a sudden slowly creeping doing the politics behind closed doors
and actually gotten a few endorsements. Now, social media, got a wind of
it. In less than, you know, 72 hours, all of these pastors, actually, had
to stand down and recognize that, that whatever they said on behalf of
Trump was actually going to hurt them almost immediately overnight. Before
there is very rarely to have political consequences so quickly, but now
because of social media, he basically got -- he basically got stopped on
arrival.

O`DONNELL: And, Jonathan Allen, he continues his lying tour about what
happened in New Jersey on 9/11, continued it on Sunday shows this weekend.
He will not loosen his grip on that particular lie.

But, we are now hearing from his supporters out there and his interviews
people are grabbing with him that they just think, "Well, OK. That, you
know, that is his lie but people in Washington are telling worse lies than
the lies Donald Trump tells." So, apparently, they have been worn down to
the point where they are willing to accept lies.

JONATHAN ALLEN, AUTHOR, HRC: Yes, we are going for the lowest common lie
denominator, I do not know. Look, Donald Trump says what he wants. He
says what he thinks will be popular, and the truth be damned. We have seen
it time and again.

And, tonight, it is not just about what would happen or did not happen on
new jersey rooftops after 9/11. He is not backing down at all. And, by
the way, I was on that show with Omarosa. She indeed is a democrat and I
believe she actually worked in the Clinton White House at one time.

O`DONNELL: Yes, yes, that is right. That is right. Yes. And, was it
Steve Kornacki show or was it Melissa Harris-Perry?

ALLEN: It was "Up."

O`DONNELL: It was a Saturday morning show. Yes. We are going to get that
tape and so, we are going to lock her in to that position.

REID: But, at the same, Lawrence -- if I may, there is an interesting sort
of back story that is going on. Within the African-American community, of
course, the pastor sort of world, that world of the church is the
centripetal force that moves the black vote traditionally.

And, you have under the radar, a riff between that part of the traditional
black vote and the Black Lives Matter Organizations, which are much younger
and disconnected from the black church.

So, I think the interesting thing is that Donald Trump, as, you know, wacky
as he is, is sort of exploiting a potential riff between the kind of old
school black preacherody, if want to. Call it that. And, sort of new
school, Black Lives Matter Organization.

Notice, he blamed the Black Lives Matter for that group not endorsing him.
He is trying to exploit something that is actually potentially there, which
is a generational sort of riff between these two parts of the civil rights
movement. So, that is sort of interesting.

But, I would watch to see if Omarosa, who is a democrat, who did work for
the Clinton campaign, does endorse. Because what Donald Trump right now
does not have are black validaters, who are well-known and with respected
among black people, or just well-known period. So, it will be interesting
to watch --

O`DONNELL: So, the best he could do is a well-known reality star?

(LAUGHING)

REID: Yes.

KUMAR: No. But, I think that he, actually, has that problem along the
lines of validaters that are women, that are people of -- that are Latinos.

REID: Yes.

KUMAR: That are African-American. The actual base that he needs in order
to get to the White House.

ALLEN: I think what Maria Teresa --

O`DONNELL: Go ahead, Jonathan.

ALLEN: I was going to say I think is what Maria Teresa is saying is the
reason that Donald Trump is going to win an overwhelming share of the
African-American vote, certainly not in a general election, probably not in
a primary but I think what he is trying to do is find a racial or ethnic or
any other type of minority that he can go to and not already have basically
poisoned the well, if you will. Latinos, if you look at Muslims in this
country, you know, you go through the groups and pretty soon he is
alienated a lot of them.

REID: Yes. You know, republican primary that is not about black and
Latino voters, because there really are not any in the republican primary.
That is about white suburban voters, who want permission to go with Donald
Trump. That is what he is trying to give them.

O`DONNELL: All right, quick break. When we come back, Chris Christie has
finally found something he disagrees with Donald Trump about, we will be
right back.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Chris Christie has finally taken on one of the lies of Donald
Trump. Chris Christie is calling out Trump for lying about having seen
thousands and thousands of people celebrating in New Jersey on 9/11. Here
is what Christie said about that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It did not happen. And, the
fact is that, you know, people can say anything, but the facts are the
facts. And, that did not happen in New Jersey that day. It has not
happened sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: It took Chris Christie quite a while to get up his courage to
say that. His first reaction to Trump`s lie was this.

"I do not remember that and so it is not something that was a part of my
recollection. I think if it had happened, I would remember it, but, you
know, there could be things I forget, too."

And, Jonathan Allen, maybe it is because he got a big endorsement in New
Hampshire today, the newspaper there, endorsing Chris Christie for
president.

ALLEN: They were saying that Chris Christie surge right now.

O`DONNELL: Yes.

(LAUGHING)

ALLEN: It might get all of the way up to like, I do not know, 10 percent,
15 percent. Look, Chris Christie is still toward the bottom of the
republican field. And, the endorsement from the New Hampshire paper is not
going to change that.

O`DONNELL: Let us take a look at the poll -- the latest poll in New
Hampshire, which shows Chris Christie way down there at 4 percent. Let us
get this up on the screen. He is way down at 4 percent below Jeb Bush.

And, the Manchester Union Leader decides to endorse Chris Christie, which
we should know that since 1980, the Manchester Union Leader has endorsed
one person that became president, that was Ronald Reagan. And, Joy, last
time around, 2012, they endorsed Newt Gingrich.

REID: Come on.

O`DONNELL: No, it gets worse. It gets worse, OK? They endorsed McCain,
you know, who then -- the time before that he did get the nomination. But,
in reverse order, they endorsed Steve Forbes, Pat Buchanan, twice. Two
times in a row. In 1988, of course, they endorsed Pete Dupont. And, so,
you know, as I mentioned to Rachel when she was handing off the show to me
that they are not afraid of picking a loser.

REID: They are not afraid -- what? No, really? Rudy Giuliani? I mean
Chris Christie is the Rudy Giuliani of --

O`DONNELL: No. Newt Gingrich last time. Newt Gingrich last time.

REID: Yes. Chris Christie is about 0.0 chance of being the republican
nominee but bully for him that he got an endorsement from the Manchester
Union Leader.

O`DONNELL: And, Maria Teresa, the Ted Cruz surge seems as though it might
be a little more real. He is coming up in polls in Iowa and he might be
able to pull that off.

KUMAR: Well, I think he has, basically, been very closely following the
lead of Donald Trump and basically recognizes that his base is whoever
Donald Trump`s base is. And, he is playing that very closely to his vest.

But, I think what is interesting though is with the "Star Ledger" literally
called today the editorial board over New Hampshire and said, have you been
following this guy? Do you actually know what he has done as governor?
And, the guy is kind of shrugged and said, "Actually, we do not." So, that
was curious.

(LAUGHING)

O`DONNELL: Yes. They do not need information up there.

KUMAR: No.

O`DONNELL: Joy Reid, Maria Teresa Kumar and Jonathan Allen, thank you all
for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it.

Tonight on Twitter, I asked you to send your guesses, what is in this
picture? What is that? And "L" tweeted, "I helped raise money for one and
train a driver a few years back." She got it right. The answer is coming
up.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: A 35-year-old Jennifer Markovsky moved to Colorado from Hawaii
ten years ago when her husband Paul was reassigned by the United States
Army. Jennifer accompanied a friend to Planned Parenthood clinic in
Colorado Springs on Friday, where she was murdered just for being there.

Jennifer had two children, ages 10 and 6. The friend Jennifer accompanied
to Planned Parenthood was shot and wounded in the hand. Jennifer
Markovsky`s husband, Paul, released this statement tonight.

"I am shocked and deeply saddened by the tragic loss of my wife. She was a
very caring and compassionate person and patient and understanding parent.
She was deeply loved by all who knew her. She was always helping the kids
do homework and reading books with them. We will miss her, her cooking,
crafting, and adventurous spirit. We ask for privacy now as we try to
begin the grief and healing process."

University of Colorado Police Officer Garrett Swasey was one of the first
to arrive on the scene Friday`s shooting and he did the most courageous
thing you could possibly do under the circumstances. He ran toward the
shooter, toward the gunfire. Officer Swasey was shot and killed.

He was a six-year veteran of the university police. He was a Junior
National Couple`s Ice Dancing Champion in the early 1990s. Former U.S.
National champion, Nancy Kerrigan remembers that she skated with Garrett
Swasey in Boston when they were both kids there.

Officer Swasey leaves his wife Rachel, 11-year-old son Elijah and 6-year-
old daughter Faith. He was 44 years old. Officer Swasey`s wife Rachel
said this. "His greatest joys were his family, his church, and his
profession. We will cherish his memory, especially those times he spent
tossing the football to his son and snuggling with his daughter on the
couch."

A 29-year-old Ke`Arre Stewart survived the Iraq war, but he could not
survive a visit to planned parenthood. The Iraq war veteran was the father
of two girls, 11 years and 6 years old. He was shot on the parking lot,
but that did not stop him. He continued moving into the clinic to warn
others before he was shot to death. Ke`Arre Stewart accompanied his
pregnant girlfriend to Planned Parenthood on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENTANYA CRAION, KE`ARRE STEWART`S GIRLFRIEND: He sounded like an A-K, you
could hear like just gunshots. And, from there the bullets went through
the wall. You could see it. You could smell it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEYONTE CHANDLER, KE`ARRE STEWART`S BROTHER: He is the only brother that I
had, and he took that away from me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: So, I asked you to guess what this is. On Twitter earlier, I
told you it was -- it is made in Malawi and at least a couple of you got
the right answers. The big winners of tonight`s quiz are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O`DONNELL: Tomorrow is giving Tuesday. After all that spending on the
Friday after thanksgiving and today cyber Monday comes giving Tuesday,
which is ruled by the spirit of generosity. It is a day marked globally
and dedicated to giving back. It is a simple idea. Just find a way for
your family, your community, your organization to try to give something
more.

MSNBC has decided to get a head start on giving Tuesday right now by
officially launching giving Tuesday on this program with my suggestion
about how you can contribute to giving Tuesday. I asked you to guess what
this is earlier tonight. And, we have a couple of winners.

A few of you -- a couple of you guessed that it is an ambulance. Seal Anne
and Mike Graham are the big winner on our Twitter contest tonight. Here is
another view of that ambulance with the top open.

The patient in distress is placed on that stretcher and then the roof is
lowered over the patient to offer protection from the intense African sun
or from the intense rain during rainy season.

There is a cheaper version of this ambulance that does not have a roof on
it. The ambulance can be hooked to the back of a bicycle but in a lot of
cases, it is simply pulled by someone on foot.

Now, we are lucky enough to live in a country where if we ever do have to
ride in an ambulance it will be a lot fancier. But, in most parts of
Malawi, you would be lucky if this ambulance showed up to get you.

Most villages do not even have an ambulance like this. But, more of them
do now. Thanks to the K.I.N.D. fund, Kids In Need of Desks, the program
that we created here on this program in partnership with UNICEF five years
ago, to build these desks in Malawi and to deliver them in schools that do
not have any desks.

The K.I.N.D. fund did not pay for that ambulance. I do not want you to
think that. But this ambulance is made in one of our factories in Malawi
that make desks for the K.I.N.D. fund, such is the synergy of the
marketplace.

Because that factory has a large order from the K.I.N.D. fund to make
thousands of desks, that factory has ordered large amounts of supplies of
steel and wood. That factory is now in an active supply chain that makes
it ready to produce other products, to expand its business, to hire more
workers.

Building desks is still the primary business of that factory, but they are
now also capable of filling smaller orders from time to time for ambulances
like the one we showed you and hospital beds made of steel. The steel they
have imported from South Africa primarily to make the desks.

The K.I.N.D. fund is an education program. Our mission is to get desks in
the schools that otherwise would never have desks. And, also to pay for
the continuing education of girls in Malawi where girl`s graduation rate
from high school is a fraction of the boys` graduation rate.

But, before the K.I.N.D. fund creates a desk it creates a job. Many jobs.
Making those desks. When we started the K.I.N.D. fund five years ago,
Motion hired a handful of workers to make desks in the small space behind
his hardware store in Lilongwe, the capital city of Malawi.

Motion is now making those desks in a large factory out on the edge of town
and he plans to move to an even bigger factory that he is building right
now. Steve Musali is one of the factory workers whose lives have been
changed. Thanks to your generosity to the K.I.N.D. Fund.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE MUSALI, FACTORY WORKER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

O`DONNELL (voice-over): Steve dropped out of high school and his youngest
sister, who is still in school, thanks to his ability to pay her high
school tuition fees.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL (on camera): Public high school is not free in Malawi. And, if
the family can manage to pay tuition for a student, that is more likely to
be one of the boys in the family, who gets that support than one of the
girls. Steve told me his life changed when he got this job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE MUSALI, FACTORY WORKER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

O`DONNELL (voice-over): He said before he got the job, he could not afford
to stay in a house. And, food was, as he put it, a bit of a problem. Now
he says, "I can stay in a respectable house and I can afford to feed my
family."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL (on camera): Steve lights up when he talks about his 2-year-old
son, Stanley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE MUSALI, FACTORY WORKER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

O`DONNELL (voice-over): He said that he is proud to know that one day
Stanley will be sitting at a desk that he made. Steve said Stanley will be
able to tell his classmates, quote, "This is my father`s work."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL (on camera): You can help Steve Musali continue that work by
contributing to the K.I.N.D. Fund at Lastworddesks.MSNBC.com. You can
contribute a desk or girls` tuition in the name of someone on your
Christmas gift list. That is someone who has everything.

And, if you cannot afford to contribute this year, perhaps you can help us
by tweeting about the K.I.N.D. Fund or mentioning it on Facebook. I have
never seen more pure joy and excitement than when these desks that you have
contributed arrived at the school.

Imagine the excitement for Steve Musali, a few years from now when he walks
his son, Stanley, to school for the first time. Imagine Steve`s pride when
he watches Stanley sit at that school desk for the first time.

Those magical moments will all have been made possible by your continuing
generosity to the K.I.N.D. Fund. Imagine the day that little Stanley
Musali sits at his desk for the first time. The first day of school is
going to be exciting enough for Stanley.

But, he is going to experience something else, something very special that
we hope all children can feel about their parents. As Stanley studies his
new desk, feels it for the first time, imagine how proud he will be when he
turns to the kids beside him and says, this is my father`s work.


END

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