updated 6/13/2005 2:00:23 PM ET 2005-06-13T18:00:23

Guest: Elena Fondacaro, E.L. Woody, Mickey Sherman, Jo-Ellan Dimitrius, Iva Bradley, Candice DeLong, Anita Van Der Sloot, Linda Allison

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVE HOLLOWAY, FATHER OF NATALEE:  I get a lot of encouragement, you know, just people who tell me that they are included in their prayers. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST:  Natalee Holloway‘s family continues to hold out hope, as the desperate search for the Alabama teen continues tonight in Aruba.  Tonight‘s top headline, Aruban police continue to grill the suspects, trying to dig for information that will lead them to Natalee Holloway. 

Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, no passport required, only common sense allowed. 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT, MOTHER OF SUSPECT:  We all want this case to be solved, that we know that Joran is 200 percent innocent, that he only wanted to help. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCARBOROUGH (voice-over):  We will speak to the mother of the suspect who may have known Natalee best and could have been one of the last people she ever saw. 

And we will go live to Aruba to get the latest on the investigation, on the suspects, on Natalee‘s family and the desperate search that goes on into its 12th day. 

Six days, no verdict.  Is the jury deadlocked?  We will ask our legal experts. 

Also:

JACKSON SUPPORTERS:  Michael is innocent.  Michael is innocent.

SCARBOROUGH:  It is getting ugly in Neverland.  What are the extreme security plans now in place when Michael Jackson‘s verdict finally comes down? 

Plus, the paparazzi, some say they killed Princess Di.  Teen queen Lindsay Lohan just escaped death by paparazzi on the road, as Seal and Heidi Klum have their run-in with aggressive photographers.  Now celebrities are fighting back, saying enough is enough.  Are the paparazzi going too far?  Or are celebs biting the hand that feeds them?  That is a SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY debate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER:  From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all.  Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, it‘s been 12 days now since 18-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared on the island Aruba.  Today, her family made it clear that they think that the three young men surely know something about what happened to Natalee, obviously, those three young men that picked her up on that night she disappeared. 

Let‘s go live now to Aruba and NBC‘s Martin Savidge, get the very latest on the search.

Martin, what news do you have for us tonight? 

MARTIN SAVIDGE, NBC CORRESPONDENT:  Good evening to you, Joe. 

Well, the biggest news is that those three newest suspects will appear before a judge tomorrow, including the 17-year-old.  That‘s Joran Van Der Sloot.  And it‘s expected that what will take place is, the judge is going to basically listen to the evidence so far against them, the suspicions, primarily, of murder and kidnapping, and determine whether or not it‘s justified continuing to hold all three.  It is anticipated he will say it is justified.

The searching goes on.  The size of the team searching on a daily basis fluctuates.  They are still out there looking.  Many times, it is family members. Many times, they are bolstered by a lot of volunteers that show up.  Sometimes, they are looking just in places they have not been.  Other times, they are site specific.  It could based upon a lead or a tip that investigators have received. 

And speaking about that, hardly a day goes by that authorities do not receive some sort of phone call saying that Natalee was seen alive on the island.  Each one of these sightings is quickly investigated.  Sadly, we can only report tonight obviously none of them have come to fruition. 

The government has pledged that finding Natalee is the number one goal.  For the family, though, every day, it gets more and more difficult.  Still, they are bolstered by the support of the people of Aruba.  This is how the father of Natalee Holloway described all of it. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLLOWAY:  I spoke with the prime minister last night, and we had a heart-to-heart talk from the perspective of being a parent and losing your child.  And he was very receptive. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE:  And then, on top of that, you had the heartbreak of the Holloway family and then you have the heartbreak of, say, the Van Der Sloot family, a 17-year-old boy who, like Natalee, honor student, who is loved by so many on this island, now sits in a prison cell charged with suspicion of murder and kidnapping, arrested at 6:00 in the morning on Thursday, the day he was supposed to graduate from high school—Joe.

SCARBOROUGH:  Martin, it is a tragic story.  Obviously, in America, a lot of people are talking about the possible favoritism that could have been shown to that 17-year-old young man.  But is that something that the authorities on the island of Aruba now are very sensitive to and are going to make sure that they play it right down the middle and that, whether they are approaching handling him or whether they‘re talking about these two security guards that were taken into custody soon after Natalee disappeared? 

SAVIDGE:  Everyone knows about the controversy here.  The young man‘s father is not just a prominent official.  He‘s a prominent official in the judicial system. 

However, the family members and those who are working on this case say it will not help him.  In fact, it will probably go against him, as authorities are that much tougher, that much stricter, because they know people are going to be measuring the yardstick by which he is treated—

Joe.

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Martin Savidge, thank you so much for your report.  As always, we greatly appreciate it. 

And we are going to be talking to that young man‘s mother in just a few minutes. 

Now, back in Natalee‘s hometown of Birmingham, Alabama, her friends and family have put up a wall of hope that we told you about last night.  That is where people in Birmingham and in Mountain Brook go to pray and share stories about Natalee.

Now, relatives are saying that strangers have taken to stopping by the wall and they‘re writing messages for Natalee, very heartfelt.  And, as we‘ve said, you know, we are in Aruba.  And the search for Natalee continues tonight.  You know, we have heard that there have been up to 700 people searching throughout the day.  They have been bringing out dogs, divers.  You‘ve had tourists.  The government in fact last week started allowing government workers to get off to search for Natalee Holloway. 

Well, the search has been called off for the night.  And one of those people out there searching desperately as anybody else is Natalee‘s aunt, Linda Allison. 

Linda, I know it has been a terrible time for you and for the family, very difficult.  But we thank you so much for being with us tonight. 

What can you tell us about the search today?  And what can you tell about Natalee‘s family?  How are they holding up tonight? 

LINDA ALLISON, AUNT OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  I have actually not been

able to speak with any of the other family members.  They are still all out

searching.  I

came in for this interview and plan to go back out tonight.  Sometimes, we are out very late at night.  And we get a few hours rest and then we‘re back out the next day, because our goal, again, is to find Natalee and bring her home. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Where are you searching now?  The search obviously has been going on for 12 days.  This is—as we have been telling our viewers, this is an island that is about the size of Wichita, Kansas.  Is there any ground left to search there after 12 days? 

ALLISON:  There are areas of this island I don‘t think people can appreciate until they see this island, that you—normally, in pictures are or on the Internet, you see sandy beaches and resort areas. 

But there‘s areas that are very—the terrain is the cacti, the thorns, very difficult to get through.  There are mountainous areas.  None of the streets, hardly any of the streets have any street names.  So, we just have to guess, driving through some of these areas and finding new areas that we haven‘t looked before to search to see if we can find her. 

Natalee, yesterday, of course, was the subject of a conversation between her father and the prime minister of Aruba.  Did you get any information on that meeting?  Obviously, the family wants to find Natalee.  What do they think the government can do?  What else can the government of Aruba do to help this search move forward to try to find the young woman that you and the family love so much? 

ALLISON:  I attended that meeting last night, a private meeting with the family.

And the prime minister has given us his word that the Aruba government is making this their number one priority, is to find Natalee.  And we have asked for specific things.  We have asked for FBI held from help from the United States, specialists, experts in investigation and in the questioning the—how they would go about interrogating these three young men, because these were the three men, or boys, that were last seen with Natalee. 

And the family feels that this is the link, that we need to find out from those boys where Natalee is. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, Linda, that was going to be my next question, because if I were in your situation, the main thing I would want from the Aruban government would be to allow the FBI interrogators to get in there, divide up these three boys and keep hammering away at them until I got to the bottom of this story. 

How important is that to you?  How important is that to Natalee‘s mom and dad, that the FBI run this interrogation and not the Dutch government in Aruba? 

ALLISON:  Actually, we would like for them to work together, jointly.  We feel like the Dutch law, there are areas obviously that are different from our laws in the United States.  So, we need their expertise, as well as the FBI, having their expertise in interrogations. 

And we feel like that, with them both working together, that we can hopefully resolve this situation. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, Linda, there are so many rumors out there. 

And, of course, any time a tragedy like this comes up, you hear rumors. 

And, of course, 99.9 percent of the stuff out there you can dismiss. 

Tell us about Natalee.  What type of young woman was she when she was in high school?  What type of young women have you grown up knowing? 

ALLISON:  I—just the same things that you‘ve been hearing, is that she is just very intelligent, very beautiful, very outgoing young lady. 

And my daughter has always been very close to Natalee, as well as another of her cousins in Jonesborough.  And we are just all very hopeful that we are going to find Natalee and bring her home. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right.  Linda, thank you so much for being with us. 

Good luck. 

ALLISON:  Thank you. 

SCARBOROUGH:  I know you are going back out there this late tonight searching for Natalee.  Know that our thoughts and prayers are with you and also with the entire family and the search squad. 

You know, there are so many angles to this story.  We just heard from Natalee‘s family.  Next, we are going to talk to the mother of the 17-year-old that is being held in this case about what she has to say about this ordeal. 

And, also, there is another case of a missing girl in the Caribbean.  And we are going to be talking to a mother who can relate all too well with Natalee‘s parents. 

Plus, the Jackson jury goes home without reaching a verdict.  What does it mean, and why is it taking so long to come down and rule on one side or another for the prince of pop?  We will sort that out.

And, also, later, paparazzi doing anything to get that picture.  Now police and the stars are starting to work together to try to turn the tables on the photographers.  Should we feel sorry for Hollywood stars? 

Stick around.  SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY is just getting started.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, we have been hearing for the past 11 days about the well-connected judge‘s son in Aruba.  Well, tonight, I talk to his mother.  We‘ll have that story straight ahead when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, since we first broke this story last week on TV, there has been a great deal of attention about the 17-year-old young man who apparently was with Natalee the night she disappeared.  We heard it in fact from police reports that he had been intimate with Natalee on the night she disappeared. 

Well, earlier tonight, I spoke to his mother, Anita Van Der Sloot, and I asked her to tell us about her son. 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAN DER SLOOT:  Joran is a 17-year-old teenager.  He is a fantastic tall guy.  He‘s a sporter.  He plays tennis on the island, soccer, volley ball, softball.  He is a boy who will come out of his bed and give his mom a hug.  And, hi mom.  How are you?  Have a nice day.  He is a very warm young boy. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Obviously, the eyes of America and Aruba are on your son and the other men who have been arrested in this case.  How is he doing right now through this ordeal? 

VAN DER SLOOT:  It is really tough.  It‘s—I got a chance to talk to him for 10 minutes this morning, 10 minutes only. 

He had a very pale white face.  He was complaining about a toothache, because we had an appointment at the dentist he couldn‘t go to.  And you much understand, he got picked up by the police on the very early morning of his graduation day.  So, we were all preparing for him—sorry—to get ready. 

I had his robe hanging there.  And we would have a nice celebration yesterday night.  And, of course, I know it‘s important.  The investigation is important.  We cooperate totally.  Joran is very open.  He wants to do anything to help.  But that was very tough on him.  And that brought up a lot of emotions.

He is very strong, because he says, mom, I‘m—that, I‘m innocent.  I know I‘m innocent.  I know the truth will come forward or the girl will come forward.  And he tries to hang in there.  But it is really tough.  And we cannot approach him, none of us. 

SCARBOROUGH:  What has he told you about Natalee? 

VAN DER SLOOT:  He hasn‘t told me anything, because, on the Monday, he went to school, like any normal boy.  And he wasn‘t aware of—he was totally surprised when the police asked him to come to the—or picked him up for interrogation.  He was totally surprised.  He really thought that the girl would be safe in the hotel and there was no reason to talk about her at all. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, thank you so much, Anita Van Der Sloot.  We greatly appreciate it.  I know this has to be a terribly difficult time for you.  But we appreciate you coming out and telling us about your son. 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, now let‘s turn to former FBI profiler Candice DeLong. 

Candice, let‘s have a little reality check.  A lot of people tonight at this late hour are still coming to the island of Aruba.  As an FBI investigator, profiler, tell me, what are the chances that she is still alive? 

CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI PROFILER:  Pretty unlikely. 

Primarily, I say that because it is an island, not a terribly big one.  There‘s only two ways to leave the island, air or by boat.  This is a hugely—I‘m sorry.  The coverage on this case is huge, international coverage.  No pilot of a boat or an airplane has come forward and said, hey, this was my passenger Monday.  She paid me to take her out of here.  Or, she was with two guys.  I took them to Caracas, Venezuela. 

No one has come forward to say that.  And the two original men that were picked up, the magistrate found 48 hours ago reason enough to hold them on suspicion of kidnapping and possibly murder.  So, it certainly is not looking good. 

SCARBOROUGH:  And, Candice, if you are trying to get to the bottom of this, if you‘re trying to find out exactly what happened, how do you do it?  Do you—you obviously want—we would want—if I were the parent, I would want the FBI conducting the interrogations and not the Dutch authorities.  But what do you do? 

You separate them and then what do you do to get to the bottom of this mystery?  Where is Natalee Holloway? 

DELONG:  Well, in terms of the five men in custody, some of them very young men, admittedly, divide and conquer. 

One of them—any time you have got a group, gang mentality working in a crime of interpersonal violence, it certainly was my experience—and I did work cases like this—one of the person in the group was the strong leader.  And it was his idea to do whatever it was that was primarily done.  And the others went along with it to various degrees. 

One person may have just simply been along for the ride and only observed.  And he is afraid to say anything.  Eventually, the weakest link in the chain is going to be the one to tell the police what happened, as much as he knows, because he is not going to want to be punished or go to prison for the rest of his life for something he didn‘t do or that somebody made him do. 

So, this, I think, the fact that there‘s five men that have been brought in, if they are all participants in one way or another of her disappearance, they probably know exactly what happened to her and one of them is going to raise his hand and eventually tell the police exactly what happened. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You are exactly—you are exactly right, Candice.  I mean, the more that are involved, the more I would guess it is easier to divide and conquer.  And somebody who had nothing to do, if there is a tragic death here, is not going to want to go to jail for the rest of your life. 

Hey, Candice, stay with us, if you will, because I want to bring you back and ask you a follow-up question. 

But, right now, I want to talk about one family who understands all too well about the Natalee Holloway story and how it is a painful reminder of their own Caribbean nature tragedy.  Seven years ago, while on a cruise with her family, 23-year-old Amy Bradley vanished one morning just as the ship was docking on a Caribbean island.  She has not been seen since.  Her parents have never given up the search.  And tonight, Amy‘s mother, Iva, is with us. 

Iva, Iva, I guess this is bringing back a lot of painful memories for you and your family, isn‘t it? 

IVA BRADLEY, MOTHER OF MISSING WOMAN:  It is very painful.

But nothing has changed for us in the way we feel and the pain that we feel every single day when we open our eyes and we don‘t have Amy.  And Amy is still out there.  And we are asking anybody who knows anything to contact us.  And there is a $260,000 reward.  And we believe that somebody saw her, took her. 

And when Natalee wasn‘t found in two or three days, my husband and I, we looked at each other.  Bottom line, on a clear day, you can see Venezuela.  And there are boats that come and go and you don‘t have to pay a fare to put somebody on a boat and drive them over there. 

SCARBOROUGH:  So, you are afraid, as some FBI profilers and investigators in the past have said to us, you are afraid she may have been kidnapped and taken over to Venezuela. 

There was a remarkable story that came out.  A Navy sailor went to a brothel in the Caribbean and came back saying that a woman, a young woman in there said: “Please help me.  Please help me.  I‘m Amy Bradley.”

Can you tell us about that? 

BRADLEY:  Yes.  We were notified by this gentlemen in February of ‘99.  And he contacted us after he had seen Amy‘s picture on the front cover of a major magazine. 

He went into a brothel.  He was in an authorized area.  He is a petty officer.  You have to understand, he got off of the ship.  That is not where they‘re supposed to go and that is where he went.  He said he went in and sat down, and he immediately saw an American girl or a white girl in there.  And she sat down at the table and she leaned into him and said her name.  She said: “I am Amy Bradley.  I need your help.  Please help me.” 

And he didn‘t do anything because he told her to go out the door.  She could go to a ship five minutes down the walkway.  And she said: “I can‘t do that.  I can‘t get out.”  She was then motioned away.  And he said, as she went to get up from the table, she leaned away to him and put her head down and said: “My name is Amy Bradley.  Please help me.”

After he retired, when he saw the article, that is when he contacted us. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Iva Bradley, thank you so much.  We are going to be following this story.  And I know this can‘t be easy for you.  So, thank you so much for being with us tonight.  We greatly appreciate it. 

And, also, we are going to be talking to Candice DeLong on the other side of this break. 

Plus, a lot of people out there thought the Michael Jackson jury would finish deliberations today, in time for the weekend, but guess again.  This case is taking a lot longer than people thought.  And what does that mean?  Does it mean that Jackson is in trouble?  Does it mean there is a hung jury?  We will ask our all-star panel straight ahead.

Plus, celebrities are all smiles when they pose for the pictures on the red carpet.  When they are getting chased down by out-of-control paparazzi, are their lives on the line?  We will talk about that and we‘ll talk about how some celebs are fighting back. 

That is when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  Coming up, more on Aruba.  Plus, as the Jackson jury

deliberates inside the courthouse, it‘s the scene outside that is

making all the news.  We are going to have that.  Also, paparazzi gone wild, the new push to crack down on photographers who go too far.

But, first, here is the latest news you need to know. 

(NEWS BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  Let‘s bring back in former FBI profiler Candice DeLong. 

Candice, do young American women who act recklessly in the Caribbean or other tropical hot spots risk kidnapping, like Amy and possibly Natalee?

DELONG:  Well, I don‘t think being in the Caribbean is any different than being at home, whether home is Lincoln, Nebraska, or Manhattan. 

A woman—a young girl, young women, women have to exercise caution in their vacation life, as well as their at-home life. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Candice, do you think that there is a possibility that Natalee could have been taken to Venezuela, could have been sold into prostitution?  Or do you think that is farfetched? 

DELONG:  I think that is highly farfetched.

Based on everything that we know and the five men in custody and the judge two days ago saying there was enough to hold them over for possible evidence of murder, I think it is probably more likely that she never left the island.  Is it possible? 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right. 

DELONG:  Yes.  Is it probable?  No. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Candice DeLong, thank you so much for being with us tonight.  We greatly appreciate it.

DELONG:  You‘re welcome, Joe.  

SCARBOROUGH:  Now let‘s go to the Michael Jackson case.  Day six, no verdict.  A lot of crazy fans outside.  More firings from the Jackson camp, possibly? 

With now from Santa Maria with the latest on the crazy fans, restraining orders and fresh firing in the Jackson camp, NBC‘s Karen Brown. 

Karen, read us your scorecard.  What in the world is going on out there today? 

KAREN BROWN, NBC CORRESPONDENT:  Well, Joe, my favorite line of yours of the week is when you described the scene here at the courthouse as being like the bar scene in “Star Wars.”  And I‘m just really not sure you were too far off. 

I mean, truly, we have quite an eclectic, eclectic group of people here from all over the world that have gathered here to wait for the verdict.  And they are really very adamant about standing behind Michael Jackson.  And a lieutenant here described it this way.  Any time you get a large group together with nothing to do, like these fans have as they wait, there are going to be problems. 

And what we have been seeing is the fans turning their attention and their frustration at the media and, in particular, at Diane Dimond from Court TV.  One fan now has a restraining order against him to stay away from Diane Dimond.  Apparently, she was concerned about her safety.  Court TV has now brought in some extra security of their own to watch over her.

And I can you a little bit about this fan that goes by B.J.  I interviewed him back in February, when he first showed up here.  He told me that he took five Greyhound buses from Knoxville, Tennessee, just to get here.  He quit high school.  He quit his job.  And he is here because Michael Jackson needs him, Joe. 

SCARBOROUGH:  I know his family has to be very proud of him tonight. 

Karen, what about the jury deliberations?  You know, the legal chattering classes always say, as you get close to a weekend, well, this is when the jury is going to wrap it up.  This is when they are going to come down with a verdict because they don‘t want to go through the weekend and start back on Monday. 

That didn‘t happen here.  What are people suggesting that may mean? 

BROWN:  Well, Joe, what people are suggesting is that this jury is very well aware of the fact that the world is watching what they do.  They are also saying that because the jury foreperson is an engineer, he is leading these jurors through a very deliberate deliberation process. 

So, truly, because this case is so complicated and it was so long, this trial, it is not surprising to many legal analysts here that this is taking some time—Joe. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, Karen Brown, be safe out there.  We greatly appreciate your report. 

(LAUGHTER)

SCARBOROUGH:  NBC‘s Karen Brown.

With me now, let‘s bring in our legal eagles.  We‘ve got criminal defense attorney Mickey Sherman and also jury consultant Jo-Ellan Dimitrius.

Jo-Ellan, let me begin with you.

I guess, if you want an O.J. verdict, a four-hour verdict, you don‘t hire an engineer to be the jury foreman, do you? 

JO-ELLAN DIMITRIUS, JURY CONSULTANT:  Well, Joe, you don‘t do that, and you don‘t have a jury sequestered for nine-and-a-half months.  I think that is what the big difference is and why people are so surprised there wasn‘t a verdict today. 

These people have the good fortune, fortunately, of being able to go home every night to spend time with their loved ones.  They have a chance over the weekend to regroup and kind of get reenergized for what may be happening in the jury room.  So, I don‘t think it is unusual at all that they didn‘t come back today. 

They do, in fact, have a lot to go through.  And they have a wonderful foreperson to lead them through this, a 63-year-old Hispanic retired school counselor, who is obviously taking them through this very, very carefully.  And because they do know that the eyes of the world are on them, and I suspect we know at least one of those individuals has a book deal in the works, that they want to know for sure on the verdict.  And that is why it‘s going to take them a while.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  Yes. 

They obviously have to be very careful about it, especially if they are already signing book deals. 

Mickey Sherman, let me ask you.  If you are sitting out there and you are the defense attorney, you have got a jury that has been relatively quiet.  They have not sent out any questions for the judge.  What you are thinking?

MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY:  You are just totally nauseous.  You‘re out of control.  It‘s already done.  There‘s nothing else you can do.

And you are trying to rethink what you should have done or what you should not have done.  It‘s—the old wives‘ tale was that, the longer the jury is out, the better it is for the defendant.  But I think that is all out the window.  You know, the problem is—or the situation is that, in the post-O.J. world, no jury wants to come back quickly either way.

They don‘t want the stigma of having to appear as though they didn‘t really give a damn or didn‘t give it enough consideration.  So, no matter which way they are going, guilty or not guilty, they are going to hang in there for a long time just to—at least to show the world, if not themselves, that they really are going through every piece of evidence. 

SCARBOROUGH:  You know, Mickey, this jury obviously not sequestered, and yet we have been talking about the barroom scene in “Star Wars” outside the—out the courthouse. 

SHERMAN:  Yes. 

(LAUGHTER)

SCARBOROUGH:  They are seeing that every night. 

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  They are seeing Michael Jackson go to the hospital every night.  They are seeing us talk about this case every night.  What type of impact does that have on the deliberations?  It has got to have some kind of impact, doesn‘t it? 

SHERMAN:  You know, I think they knew what they were buying coming into this case.  They knew that they weren‘t there to watch a stockbroker being tried for manipulation.

They are dealing with a guy who is very strange, with people who are very strange.  You know, the big case brings out the big nuts.  And that is what you got out there.  It‘s just a fact of life, although I think some of those people are disgruntled Jackson family spokespeople, who have now been fired. 

But I just think that the jury is probably going to be not narrow-minded, but focused on what they should be dealing with and not really concerned with all the antics that are going on outside. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Jo-Ellan Dimitrius, we have been talking about how this jury has been very quiet and have not asked any questions of the judge.  Obviously, you are the one of the foremost jury consultants in America. 

What does that mean to you?  Which way does that break? 

DIMITRIUS:  Well, I think it is interesting that they have not asked any questions, or at least we know they have asked one question.  We don‘t know the content of the question that was asked. 

But I think it is unusual that to now have gone through basically a week worth through of deliberations and to have only asked one question, it seems fascinating to me, because, usually, certainly in my experience, you would have had many question.  So, maybe they are at this point sort of agreeing generally on some of the charges, and, you know, we‘re seeing some consensus along the way.  But, again, it has taken a week.  So, I guess only time will tell. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Only time will tell, indeed.  And we just don‘t know what that silence means. 

Well, Jo-Ellan Dimitrius, Mickey Sherman, thanks a lot for being with us tonight.  We really appreciate it.  And we will be following up, obviously, on the story next week. 

Now, tonight, bad news for residents of the Gulf Coast, as Tropical Storm Arlene approaches and hurricane watches are posted.  Arlene has already soaked Cuba.  It could be upgraded to a hurricane before it hits the United States tomorrow.

Florida, Louisiana and Alabama are bracing for the worst.  And some here in Pensacola who lost everything last summer in Ivan still have not recovered.  And this hurricane season is off to a tough start.  It is also not looking good for me and my back, still getting over coverage of Hurricane Jeanne last year. 

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCARBOROUGH:  I am standing out here getting blown around.  It makes for great TV.  It also hurts a lot. 

Now, the next thing we worry about, again, is going to be the tornado damage.  It is also going to be people going out tomorrow too early.  And there is usually one or two people that get electrocuted in every storm.  Now, I talked to Congressman Mark Foley, who represents this district, on the phone just a few minutes ago.  He has been in contact with Governor Bush. 

Here comes one of those surges. 

When you see a wind surge come and knock me off my feet, just imagine, north of the eye, it is at least 20 to 30 percent more powerful up there. 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCARBOROUGH:  What a jackass.

(LAUGHTER)

SCARBOROUGH:  I can‘t I believe I did that.  What a moron.

Coming up next, the paparazzi, they are willing to do anything for the perfect picture, a picture that looks a lot better than that.  But are some going too far?  Should there be a law to protect America‘s favorite celebrities and keep them out of the control of photographers? 

And an incredible story out of Chicago is this week‘s SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY champion.  I promise, friends, you are not going to want to miss this one. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  The work of celebrity photos has now turned the focus back on the paparazzi. 

Last month in Los Angeles, the paparazzi chased down Lindsay Lohan and crashed into her car, possibly to create a photo opportunity for other snappers.  That is what at least supporters of Lindsay Lohan are saying.  Supporters are now fighting back.  Celebrities are saying it has gone way too far. 

The photographer was charged with assault.  And, yesterday, LAPD said it‘s looking for new ways to control aggressive paparazzi, possibly even bringing felony conspiracy charges against groups of photographers who collaborate.

So, the question is, has the paparazzi crossed into criminal territory?  And what, if anything, can police do about it? 

With me now to talk about, we have a paparazzi photographer E.L. Woody and we also have Elena Fondacaro with Fonolli Management.  She represents Verne Troyer, also known as Mini-Me. 

Let‘s start with E.L. Woody.

E.L., you obviously know that there—and people have been talking about this since Princess Diana passed away in 1997.  But now, in California, because of the Lindsay Lohan incident, more and more people are talking about the need to clamp down on the paparazzi.  What do you think about that? 

E.L. WOODY, PHOTOGRAPHER:  The same old talk.  A lot of talk, no do. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, what do you think about the Lindsay Lohan incident?  Do you think that...

(CROSSTALK)

WOODY:  I thought it was a big—I didn‘t think it was any coincidence that the biggest story of the day, up until the wreck, was that Lindsay Lohan‘s father had been sentenced to four years in prison that day. 

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  So, are you suggesting that she may have actually staged this wreck to get attention off of her father‘s arrest? 

WOODY:  I didn‘t say that, but I am saying there is no coincidences in life. 

SCARBOROUGH:  OK. 

Well, we also—obviously, this week, we heard about Heidi Klum on the red carpet, Seal getting very angry, saying that she was pushed down.  You also have Reese Witherspoon, who claims that she was blocked in by paparazzi and that—there‘s almost like this conspiracy now, where somebody will block them off, so other photographers can get out and shoot the picture.  Does that happen? 

WOODY:  No, not that I have ever seen. 

My guys definitely are now allowed to break the law to get a photograph.  There is an element of paparazzi here.  And let me tell you that there‘s no new laws that need to be enacted.  The laws that are in effect, reckless driving, assault with a motor vehicle, are well—are plenty to enforce the—to stop this kind of stuff. 

The real law and the real danger that has come is from European and South American photographers working here illegally.  And they don‘t follow American rules.  We are just hardworking American schlubs out here trying to pay our taxes, pay our bills.  These guys are coming in.  They are just basically coming in, taking an all-American product, ship it to Europe, ship it to South America, never pay taxes, never pay a penny. 

They work until they get kicked out of the country by the INS.  The INS totally ignores them.  And it is one of the easiest ways for a foreign national to come and work in the United States and take money and never report it.  That‘s the main part.

SCARBOROUGH:  I don‘t want to talk about...

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  So, you have made that point.  OK.  But you say you‘re just a schlub trying to make a honest living. 

WOODY:  That‘s right. 

SCARBOROUGH:  But schlubs these days can make a lot of money snapping a picture of Lindsay Lohan, can‘t they? 

WOODY:  Well, yes.  And schlubs can make a lot of money sitting behind a desk and not getting out and getting their own stories, can‘t they? 

SCARBOROUGH:  Well, sure they can.  But some schlubs that sit behind desks don‘t ram into Lindsay Lohan, do they, E.L.?  They don‘t push pregnant women...

(CROSSTALK)

WOODY:  There are no high-speed chases...

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  They don‘t push pregnant women down onto red carpets, do they, E.L.? 

(CROSSTALK)

WOODY:  ... at a high rate of speed.  There‘s no chase unless there‘s a rabbit.

(CROSSTALK)  

SCARBOROUGH:  All right, E.L. 

(CROSSTALK)

WOODY:  You just don‘t want to hear what I have to say.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  No, E.L.  When I start talking, you start talking.  And I guess...

WOODY:  I am just trying to tell you what is going on.  I am honest about this. 

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  Maybe that‘s the most effective way for you to do it.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  OK, E.L., talk. 

WOODY:  You don‘t want to hear us.

All right.  The deal is that can be no high-speed chases unless the person that is being chased drives at a high rate of speed.  I advise all celebrities...

SCARBOROUGH:  OK.  Let me bring...

(CROSSTALK)

WOODY:  ... if they feel threatened, drive immediately at a legal speed to the nearest police station.  They will take care of the situation. 

SCARBOROUGH:  All right.  Thank you, E.L.

WOODY:  Driving at a high rate of speed by a celebrity is just as dangerous as the paparazzi driving.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  Elena—if you could cut E.L.‘s mike off.

WOODY:  Well, you‘re biased.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:  Elena...

ELENA FONDACARO, FONOLLI MANAGEMENT:  The bottom line here is...

E.L., E.L., we have got four minutes.  You have taken three-and-a-half of it.  I‘m not biased.  I have just given you way too much time. 

Elena, respond.

FONDACARO:  The bottom line here is, people are paying way too much money for these photographs.  If we can stop the magazines from paying all this money for these perfect photographs that they want of celebrities doing things that are just maybe out of the norm, we wouldn‘t have these problems. 

But when they are stalking people and when they‘re chasing people in vehicles, when they are lying down on people‘s front lawns, trying to take a photograph between fence slats to get the one picture that they know is going to sell and make the front page of “The National Enquirer,” that is where the problem is.  So, it‘s not just the photographers.  It‘s not just the press.

SCARBOROUGH:  Elena, also, the problem is that we have an appetite, though, right?  Elena, we all have an appetite to look at these celebrities, don‘t we?  I mean, there are more and more magazines out there and they—they continue to sell. 

FONDACARO:  But they continue to sell because of the fact that these other—the magazines themselves are putting such a high price on the picture.  So, now we have kids with camera phones.  And they are all looking around.  And, if they get the right picture, the magazine is going to pay for it.  Yes, there is this undoubted...

SCARBOROUGH:  All right. 

FONDACARO:  I‘m sorry, but there is a line.

SCARBOROUGH:  Elena, I‘m sorry.  I‘m sorry.  We are out of time, unfortunately.  E.L. took most of it, said we are biased. 

E.L., thank you for being with us.  We greatly appreciate it. 

Elena, thank you so much.

And you know what?  I have just got to say this.  I mean, yes, some schlubs make money sitting behind desks, but schlubs sitting behind desks, they don‘t knock pregnant women like Heidi Klum down on a red carpet to get a picture that could land them $10,000. 

We‘ll be right back in a second with our SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY champion. 

And it is not a member of the paparazzi. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  If you want to find out more about what is going on in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, you can do it by starting your day with my morning read on my Web site, Joe.MSNBC.com.  Or you could just hang in out in Times Square.

We‘ll be right back for a different kind of SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:  Welcome back. 

Now it is time for our SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY champion.  In a Chicago neighborhood, a pit bull got loose and went after a group of kids heading toward their school.  One 12-year-old boy stopped to help.  The pit bull, though, attacked him. 

And that is where our SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY champion comes in. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAWN MONTIEL, DOG OWNER:  The dog just came rushing.  It just charged the boy and jumped on him. 

SCARBOROUGH (voice-over):  Dawn Montiel and her son, Michael, were watching the attack from inside their house.  They grabbed a stick and headed for the door. 

D. MONTIEL:  We were going to come out and hit the dog to get the dog off the boy.  But she heard the boy screaming.  And when I put my hand on the doorknob to open the door, she knocked just me down, knocked him into the wall.  And she didn‘t hit—she didn‘t touch one step. 

SCARBOROUGH:  Maya, an 80-pound black Lab, attacked the pit bull, saving the boy. 

D. MONTIEL:  She just jumped onto the pit bull and she did bite the—you know, the pit bull.  And that is what made it release the boy.  So, we made the boy—we told the boy, run.  You know, run to school.  They will call an ambulance.  They will take care of you.

SCARBOROUGH:  Maya had saved the boy, but she still had trouble of her own.  The pit bull dragged her inside the house.  Then police showed up and saved Maya by shooting the pit bull. 

MICHAEL MONTIEL, SON OF DAWN:  She is the best dog ever.  I mean, she is wonderful.  She does—she is smart, very smart. 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Good girl. 

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCARBOROUGH:  Now, that is a champion.  That is all the time we have for tonight. 

Have a great weekend.  See you Monday.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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