updated 8/9/2005 10:47:26 AM ET 2005-08-09T14:47:26

Guest: Rachel Maddow, Curtis Sliwa, Max Kellerman, Kristene Whitmore

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST, “SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY”:  Greatly appreciate you being with us.  THE SITUATION with Tucker Carlson, starts right now.  Batting clean-up.  And I'm excited. 

Tucker, we're all excited.  Great to have you here. 

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST:  Great Joe Scarborough, thank you very much. 

It's 11 p.m. in New Jersey, 8 in L.A., 5 in Maui, 11 in the morning in Koala Lumpur.  This is THE SITUATION, the only live national news program in America right now.  Welcome. 

A lot to update you on, plus, our own crime blotter, and your voice e-mails.  But first, here's THE SITUATION at this hour.

If you thought Michael Jackson was guilty of molesting children, you are not alone.  At least two jurors who acquitted him agree.  A little less than two hours ago on the debut of MSNBC's “RITA COSBY, LIVE AND DIRECT” former jurors Ray Hultman and Eleanor Cook went public with their second thoughts. 

Here's Ray Hultman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY HULTMAN, MICHAEL JACKSON JUROR:  The thing that really got me the most was the fact that people just wouldn't take those blinders off long enough to—to really look at all the evidence that was there. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON:  One significant footnote, both Hultman and Cook are writing books about what it was like to acquit a man they believe molested children. 

You won't hear Harry Belafonte, singing praises of Bush administration tonight or ever.  At a march in Atlanta over the weekend, commemorating the 40th anniversary of the Voting Rights Act, the singer turned activist attacked black members of the Bush administration as, quote, “black tyrants.”  He went on to compare them to Jews serving in Hitler's Third Reich. 

TV Judge Greg Mathis, meanwhile, passed his own heavy sentence on GOP leaders at the even.  He says all they needed to be locked up, because in his words, they are all criminals and thieves.  In this case, though, the judge's verdict, not legally binding. 

And a possible explanation for one of the most common battles of the sexes, lack of communication.  Scientists at the University of Sheffield in England may have let the men off the hook.  It turns out the male brain is not tuned to the frequency of a woman's voice.  For men, women literally difficult to listen to. 

Incidentally, the study also may explain why people who hallucinate usually hear male voices. 

It's another lonely vigil night for Cindy Sheehan.  At this very hour she remains camped outside the president's rambling in Crawford, Texas.  She won't leave, she's says, until she's exchanged words with Mr. Bush about the war in Iraq. 

Mrs. Sheehan has a few thoughts on the matter because her son was killed in battle there. 

The president's spokesman say the president has no plans to meet with Mrs. Sheehan. 

Well, a good team effort by a group of apparently memory challenged cheerleaders.  After witnessing a hit and run accident, the pom-pom shakers had to resort to what they do best, in order to remember the suspect's license plate number.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Seven, 6, 3, 4, 0, 0.  Seven, 6, 3, 4, 0, 0.  Seven, 6, 3, 4, 0, 0.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Seven, 6, 3, 4, 0, 0.  Seven, 6, 3, 4, 0, 0.  Seven, 6, 3, 4, 0, 0.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Seven, 6, 3, 4, 0, 0.  Seven, 6, 3, 4, 0, 0.  Seven, 6, 3, 4, 0, 0.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARSON:  Well, unfortunately, 2, 4, 6, 8, not part of the tag number.  Still, the gimmick worked.  The suspect may now face a misdemeanor charge. 

Well, war is hell.  It might also quite profitable for the proud owner of Ariel Sharon's blood-stained head bandage.  Yes, the very one Israel's current prime minister wore after being injured in the 1973 Mideast war.

The identified owner is now offering his prized possession on eBay, the starting bid, 10 grand.  If you're not interested, how about Moshe Dayan's sweat stained eye patch?

Finally, Harry Potter has found a captured audience in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.  It seems that J.K. Rowling's whiz kid has become a must-read subject for Islamist terror suspects at the U.S. prison there. 

The prisoners still love the Quran, but then again, they already know how that ends. 

Well, to break down our favorite topic tonight, let's welcome the co-host of MSNBC's “CONNECTED COAST TO COAST,” taking a brief break from her wild night out on the town, Monica Crowley.

And from Air America radio, taking a break from prepping her crack of dawn radio show, Rachel Maddow. 

RACHEL MADDOW, AIR AMERICA RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:  Hi, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  The offensive—hi.  The offensive thing about the Michael Jackson verdict, or the over the top part, I thought, was that neither of these jurors who were on this kind of amazing interview on Rita Cosby's show tonight seemed in the slightest apologetic about what they did, acquitted a man they believed committed child molestation. 

The quote from Mrs. Cook, was, quote, “They can be as angry as they want to,” the other jurors.  “They ought to be ashamed.  They're the ones that let a pedophile go.”  Huh? 

MONICA CROWLEY, CO-HOST, “CONNECTED COAST TO COAST”:  Isn't she part of the group that let the pedophile go?  I mean, I cannot believe now they tell us that they think that Michael Jackson was guilty of these crimes. 

Somehow something tells me that this is not a sudden attack of conscience by these people.  They both have books coming out, and they want to sell them.  They've got a movie in development.  So you know, I'm finding it hard to believe that suddenly now they're saying, “Oh, well, now we think he's guilty.” 

MADDOW:  Yes.  Because the thing that's strange about it is that they not only didn't persuade their fellow jurors to vote not guilty, or to vote guilty, and they're regretting that their persuasion powers—they didn't even themselves vote guilty.  It was unanimous. 

CARLSON:  Are you surprised?  When that verdict came down, we were sitting right exactly in these chairs.

MADDOW:  That's right. 

CARLSON:  I was, not to brag, shocked by it.  I thought, this is amazing, the evidence just that had filtered down to the press that we read about in the paper every day suggested this guy was guilty. 

CROWLEY:  But that's what I think explains just what happened.  I think that what happened was the prosecution didn't prove their case to the jury.  The jury voted unanimously not guilty. 

MADDOW:  Then these people get out of the trial situation.  They realize Michael Jackson has been convicted in the court of opinion, that people like you are absolutely shocked by the verdict, and so they're trying to have it both ways.  They're trying to say, “Oh, some group dynamic took advantage of me.”  I just think that they got shocked by the court of public opinion. 

CROWLEY:  Right.  I mean, when you agreed to sit on a jury, when you're chosen for a jury, you have a lot of responsibility.  You are there to vote your conscience, based on the evidence as it was presented. 

If these two jurors felt, based on their conscience, based on the evidence that Michael Jackson was guilty, then they had an obligation, then, to vote that way. 

CARLSON:  And I think the rest of us have an obligation to point that out every single day that their book is on—is on the bookstands, personally, and not to buy it, by the way. 

On now to remarks made by Harry Belafonte and Judge Greg Mathis at this march over the weekend in Atlanta.  The Harry Belafonte remarks were so completely over the top, and I think he can get a pass, because he's kind of demented. 

He in fact, called a white reporter a black tyrant, which tells you where he's coming from.

I was more interested in Nancy Pelosi, right, leader of the House Democrats, shows up at the event and tells the crowd that, in fact, there was intentional racism on the part of authorities in Ohio, that the election was stolen because voting booths were moved out of black neighborhoods in Ohio. 

Well, that is, in fact, demonstrably untrue.  Voting booths are allocated by county, by bipartisan commission in every county in Ohio allocates a position of voting booths.  There was no conspiracy.  And for her, a person in a leadership position like that to tell a volatile crowd that, yes, there is conspiracy against you is wrong. 

MADDOW:  I don't think that it's—I don't think it's demonstrably untrue.  I think that the way that voting worked out in Ohio in this election, black people did have a much longer time in line to vote than white people. 

CARLSON:  I'm sure...

MADDOW:  You can talk about whether or not that was a conspiracy or not, but it happens to be the case. 

CARLSON: But she was suggesting it was a conspiracy.

CROWLEY:  She was contesting widespread fraud in the state of Ohio, which I think is totally irresponsible for the leader of the Democratic Party and the House of Representatives.  It was like she was pandering to this constituency, and as Tucker points out, a very heated environment here, which I think is reckless. 

MADDOW:  But if you accept the fact—if you accept the fact that black people did have to wait a lot longer to vote in Ohio in this election than white people did, I think it's irresponsible for the Congress not to make that fact. 

CARLSON:  OK.  But we're not talking now about the Congress.  We're talking about something specifically that happened last Saturday, this past Saturday.  These people get up, Harry Belafonte and Judge Mathis, among them, Dick Gregory, got up and literally denounced the United States as an evil country.

Get up and say these completely over the top inflammatory things that actually hurt race relations in this country, and there's Nancy Pelosi, who I know is a decent, very smart person, doesn't say, “But hold on, slow down.  There is not conspiracy to hurt you.  There isn't.” 

MADDOW:  James Dobson last week said that stem cell researchers are Nazi doctors.  Your friend, Rick Santorum, has said that Democrats are Nazis for the nuclear filibuster.  I mean... 

CARLSON:  For which—for which he apologized.  But I'm not—and I'm not defending any of that.  I think all of that is...

MADDOW:  But who came down on James Dobson for saying that about stem cells?

CARLSON:  I actually wasn't—I absolutely wasn't even aware of it.  I'm talking something—about something very specific here, and I'm merely saying that Nancy Pelosi, if she's going to associate with people like that, ought to say something about it.  And not...

CROWLEY:  Nancy Pelosi is an elected representative.  She's the leader of the Democrats in the House.  And for her to use that kind of incendiary language is just completely reckless and over the top. 

(CROSSTALK)

MADDOW:  I think that...

CARLSON:  Wait, I don't mean to...

Hold on, Rachel.  I can't even hear you.  I've got to be honest.  You know why I can't hear you? 

MADDOW:  Why?

CARLSON:  Because a new study has shown that I can barely hear anything you say, because you're a woman.  That's true.  It's true.  It's totally true.  Apparently, now we have scientific proof that there's a reason. 

MADDOW:  But I will start sending you memos instead about James Dobson Nazi analogies. 

CARLSON:  Send an e-mail.  But don't you think this explains very much—researchers have found there's something about the female voice, the octaves in which it carries, that just goes right past men. 

CROWLEY:  You know, you guys are not off the hook on this research, and by the way Rachel and I both want to point out, that it's because the female voice is much more sophisticated... 

MADDOW:  That's right.

CROWLEY:  ... than the male voice.

MADDOW:  We are in cahoots on this one, don't even try. 

CARLSON:  Well, actually, the studies...

CROWLEY:  You're outnumbered here. 

CARLSON:  If you ask the average man, who do you listen to more carefully in your life, the women in your life or the men in your life, of course it's the women in your life, because there are consequences to not listening.  So men always listen.

MADDOW:  But this is supposedly this great excuse for men to not listen to their wives when they tell them to take out the trash and everything. 

The other side of this, though, like you mentioned in the intro here, is that this study also proved that crazy people have only male voices in their heads.  So women, whenever they hear men say something stupid or inane, you can just say, “I just assumed it was an auditory hallucination.” 

CROWLEY:  Crazy person. 

MADDOW:  Only in my head. 

CARLSON:  Well, two people I consider very real, Monica Crowley and Rachel Maddow.  Thank you both very much. 

CROWLEY:  Thank you. 

CARLSON:  Finally tonight, before we go, something you already know.  Peter Jennings died last night of lung cancer, at the age of 67. 

Jennings was an articulate man with articulate friends, many of whom spoke today at eloquent length about what sort of man he was.  There wasn't much more to say except for two things: when it came to explaining breaking news live on television, Jennings really was the best.  Nobody did it more calmly, more clearly.  Probably nobody ever will. 

Jennings also was a very generous person.  I know this because he helped me get a job one time.  There was no reason for him to do it.  He did it just to be decent, which in my experience, he absolutely was.  Peter Jennings, rest in peace. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Former boss John Gotti, on trial for several crimes, including trying to kill a former Guardian Angel.  A key witness in the case joins me next to discuss THE SITUATION. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.  It's 11:13, and 28 seconds, and we're still the only live national news program on the air. 

Well, someone who spent years writing about crime, I found it hard to resist adding this segment, hereby and forever after called “THE SITUATION Crime Blotter.”  Every night, we'll bring you the most compelling who done its, why'd they do it, how they got away without getting caught. 

And in keeping with cable tradition, we begin in Aruba.  First up, an update on the Natalee Holloway case.  Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, today more than doubled the reward for information about her daughter's whereabouts.  It now stands at a quarter of a million dollars. 

Of Aruban investigators, Mrs. Twitty said quote, “The level of ineptitude has been incredible.” 

Also incredible, the claim of one Ashland Lee (ph) against police in Pend Oreille County, Washington.  Three years after her arrest for drunk driving in an accident that left her passenger critically injured, Ms. Lee has sued the cops for $1.5 million in pain, suffering, disfigurement, loss of enjoyment of life, medical expenses, and wage loss, probably among other things. 

According to Ms. Lee, cops pulled her over, knew she had been drinking, but let her go an hour before she drunkenly wrecked her own truck.  It's their fault. 

And alarming practice coming to light about a practice that is still legal in most places.  A TV station in Orlando, Florida, found more than one million web sites dedicated to the behavior known as upskirting, where men armed with recording devices secretly peer up women's dresses. 

As of today, upskirting is against the law in only 12 states.  Let it be said we looked for those sites, couldn't find any. 

And today in federal court in Manhattan, the trial of reputed mafia kingpin John Gotti Jr. began.  Junior Gotti faces multiple charges, including racketeering and conspiring to kidnap radio talk show host and founder of the Guardian Angels Curtis Sliwa.  Mr. Sliwa was shot while hailing a taxicab back in 1992.  Prosecutors say he became a target for criticizing John Gotti Sr. 

Joining me now, Curtis Sliwa.  Mr. Sliwa, thanks a lot for coming on. 

CURTIS SLIWA, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST/FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS:  My pleasure.  My pleasure, Tucker.

CARLSON:  I have to say, I remember this really well.  In 1992, you were in a cab in New York.  Someone started shooting at you from inside the cab.  The cab had been modified in a chop shop to make it hard for you to get out the door, and you fell out the window. 

And the “New York Times” subsequently and, I believe also “The New York Post,” ran stories suggesting that you made the whole thing up.  And I got to be honest, I thought you did, too. 

SLIWA:  Well, you were part of the majority.  At WABC Radio where I hosted the morning show, many of my colleagues throughout the day just couldn't fathom, couldn't imagine, first, that organized crime would attack a commentator, a talk show host, a writer, a cop. 

CARLSON:  Yes, why'd they do that?  Why'd they—I mean, no offense.  I think you're great, but why would the Gottis want to kill you?  I mean, a lot of people criticized them. 

SLIWA:  Yes, but you see, Tucker, that's all a myth.  It's been proven time and time again.  They've gone after prosecutors and cops and reporters and commentators. 

I grew up with them.  I took a different path.  They went through their deformative (sic) years and decided to become degenerates and enemies of society. 

Obviously, you know what I did.  Twenty-six years ago, I formed the Guardian Angels in New York City.  It's now a group that exists in 60 cities around the world.  And we're crime fighters. 

CARLSON:  Well, wait a second.  They didn't—I mean, they didn't just shoot you because you are a good guy and they're bad news. 

SLIWA:  Oh, no, no. 

CARLSON:  So what did you—I mean, honestly, there are a lot of reporters who spend a lot of time criticizing the mafia.  There are a lot of federal prosecutors who put them in jail.  Why did they choose you?  Do you have any clue?

SLIWA:  Tucker, because they were in the suites, the reporters, and they were analyzing the John Gotti Sr. trial.  Ultimately, he was found guilty and went away, triple life without parole. 

But you see, growing up in the streets, I knew street information about John Gotti Sr., John Gotti Jr., relatives of theirs, Gambino crime members who had committed crimes that had never been solved.  And I knew who had committed these crimes, and I knew the victims, who took the code of omerta because they were afraid of retribution. 

And I would go on and on, and literally detail the many crimes that they had never been accused of or prosecuted, and it drove John Gotti Sr. to the point where I believe he told his son, John Gotti Jr., who was running the family while he was in jail, “Silence Curtis.” 

And they tried to with baseball bats the first time in April of 1992, hit me 28 times.  Tried to turn me into a zucchini, a vegetable.  And when that didn't work, two months later, as you mentioned. 

CARLSON:  Yes.  They shot you in the cab.  Did you recognize the guys who shot you?  Did you know them?  Do you know them now?  Do you know who they were?

SLIWA:  Well, the government indicates that it's Yanotti, who was ordered by John Gotti Jr. to do it at the time of the shooting.  Now remember, Tucker, I'm sitting in the back.  I'm relaxing, reading the “Post,” the news.  I'm on my way to WABC. 

This guy pops up from under the dash board.  He's got a mask on, and an Irish walking cap, and the first thing I see is, “Take this, you son of a B,” and pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. 

Now you can imagine, at that point you're like, bing, bing, bing bing, Ricochet Rabbit, I got to get out of here. 

CARLSON:  How loud is a gun in the back of a taxicab?

SLIWA:  Oh, explosive.  And remember, this is nanoseconds, but to me, time goes on forever, until finally I realized there was one window open.  It was in the front next to the driver on the passenger side, where the gunman was.  I had only one chance and one chance only or I'd be room temperature. 

I dove.  I leapt through the window, only made it halfway out.  The driver smashed me up against the parked cars.  And that's what discharged me after being shot so many times. 

CARLSON:  That's pretty dramatic, even for New York.  Now tell me, finally, do you think Gotti Jr. is reformed?  I keep reading these stories in “The Daily News,” he's a decent guy.  You think that's right?

SLIWA:  What great revisionism.  Yes, he's a born again, right?  He's a law abiding God-fearing citizen. 

Well, even if that's true, that he converted in 2000, he did this to me in 1992, and we're not giving absolution.  I can't wait, Tucker, that he gets found guilty, gets put away, then goes straight to hell without an asbestos suit. 

CARLSON:  Yes.  You know, I'd be annoyed, too, if someone shot me in a cab.  Curtis Sliwa, I think you've got cause to be grouchy about it.  Good for you for being so.  Thanks for joining us.  Appreciate it.

SLIWA:  Well, thanks for being on my side on this one, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  Thanks, Curtis.

Still to come, “Outsider” Max Kellerman spars with me on three of the day's more shocking subjects. 

Max, are you prepared?

MAX KELLERMAN:  No, and I really appreciate you having me on after an American hero.  It makes me look great.  Thank you.

CARLSON:  It's all by design, Max.  And also, a New York radio station agrees to stop its Smackfest contest in which women voluntarily slop each other in the face for prizes.  Sure, it sounds brutal, but why did the state's attorney general get involved?  We'll tell you.  Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.  It's 11:23 and 25 seconds.  We're still on live. 

Our news at this hour, the Nikkei, up 1 percent, for those of you following the Japanese stock market. 

Time now, though, for “The Outsider,” a man who actively avoids the news of the world around him, but stays up late into the night, devising ways by which to play devil's advocate to any informed party on any topic, in this case, me, about three news stories of the day. 

Wake the kids.  They're not going to want to miss this.  It's ESPN radio and HBO boxing host, Max Kellerman. 

KELLERMAN:  Ready for you, Tucker.  Back from Vegas and ready for you. 

CARLSON:  Glad to see you back, Max. 

KELLERMAN:  Thank you.

CARLSON:  You look poorer, but happy. 

All right.  Starting, Max.  There will be no more women slapping each other for prizes in New York from here on out.  The parent company of radio station Hot 97 agreed to pay more than $240,000 settlement with the state of New York for staging 24 Slapfest promotions, in which female listeners would smack each other for prizes ranging from concert tickets to five grand in cash. 

New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, who talks a great deal about everything, came down on the station for what he called outrageousness, and possible violation of laws restricting promotion of a combative sport, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 

He said this, too.  This is what struck my eye, Max.

KELLERMAN:  Yes.

CARLSON:  “This is a wake-up call to those who think outrageousness is a marketing strategy.” 

Well, it turns out, Eliot Spitzer himself uses outrageousness as a marketing strategy.  He's marketing for his run for governor coming up soon.  This is completely voluntary.  These women were hitting each other because they wanted to.  He's claiming it's a kind of domestic violence.  He's pandering to soccer moms.  It's an outrage. 

KELLERMAN:  I love that connection.  The irony, Tucker, oh, the irony.  It's a very good argument. 

Here's the thing, though, they are fighting for prizes.  They are literally prize fighting.  When you prize-fight, you need a promoter's license, if you're going to stage it.  You need to run it by the State Athletic Commission.  You need—there are all of these kinds of regulations like there are regulations in any business.

Hot 97 did not jump through those hoops, and so technically they're in violation of the law. 

CARLSON:  Come on, this is not ultimate fighting.  It's lonely girls slapping each other.  Look, the real complaint here is that it's ugly, which it is.  It is ugly, I'll grant you that. 

KELLERMAN:  Yes. 

CARLSON:  We don't outlaw things because they're ugly.  You know what's ugly?  Power mad overly ambitious prosecutors with dreams of the governor's mansion, like Eliot Spitzer.  That's ugly.  And nobody's trying to make him illegal.

KELLERMAN:  You know, his reasoning is surprising.  His reasoning is outrageousness won't be tolerated.  “Hey, Buddy, this is America.  That's precisely what is tolerated between two consenting adults.” 

However, I think there are legal grounds to go after them, because as I mentioned earlier, it's an athletic competition.  They didn't go through the regulations you have to go through in order to stage that business, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  That's a broad meaning.

KELLERMAN:  Also, when you flog the law in public, the attorney general is forced to, you know—it's really a slap in the face publicly to flog the law.  You got to go after them. 

CARLSON:  Just for these pandering the female voters, which is what he's doing here. 

Well, they take their purple nurple seriously in Oregon.  In case you didn't already know, 15-year-old will serve three days of community service, pay a $67 fine and have misdemeanor on his record, possibly for life all for giving 13-year-old Matthew Cox what's widely known—pardon this here—as a titty twister.  As seen in this reenactment. 

According to a Jackson County juvenile—outlawed behavior includes wet willies, swirlies, wedgies, and noogies, and that's not a joke.  Now Max...

KELLERMAN:  You watch out for Eliot Spitzer, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  I know you probably spend some time hanging on the wedgie nail back in school.  OK?  There's no reason to criminalize behavior like this.  It's what little boys do. 

KELLERMAN:  Well.  Let's put it this way.  A wet willy is disgusting.  It's not hygienic.  It shouldn't be illegal.  Noogies and what do you call, when you pull up, come on, guys...

CARLSON:  Swirlies?

KELLERMAN:  Wedgies.  It depends on the force. 

CARLSON:  Indian burns. 

KELLERMAN:  Indian burns, those all depend on the force with which they're done.  However, wouldn't the world be a better place without the purple nurple?  Do we really need the purple nurple?  Have you had ever had a purple nurple, Tucker?

CARLSON:  I've never.  But...

KELLERMAN:  Look at the reenactment.  Look at this guy.  He's on his knees. 

CARLSON:  Well, you know, those are two of our producers here.  I'm not going to lie.  Looking better than they ever have. 

Let me just make one point.  This boy's mother called the cops.  OK?  Can you imagine anything more embarrassing than having your mom call the law because you got a purple nurple?

KELLERMAN:  All I have to say is, if they made scratching a chalk board illegal, I wouldn't complain too much.  Purple nurples are the worst thing ever.  They want to get rid of them, I'm all for it. 

CARLSON:  Turning into wussy nation, as far as I'm concerned. 

Well, fresh rumors tonight about the hair stylings of Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi.  Silvio Berlusconi was reportedly spotted at a clinic in Ferrara (ph) over the weekend, the same clinic where he was believed to have had a hair transplant last year. 

Berlusconi apparently was irritated by the latest gossip about his hair plugs, but he also vehemently denied the initial gossip last year before his surgeon sold him out and admitted to transplanting some skull cover on the P.M. 

This is so sad, Max.  This is one of the richest men in the world, but all he really wants is some hair?

KELLERMAN:  Yes. 

CARLSON:  I mean, it is sad.  But also, look, the problem with hair transplants and wigs, and all that stuff, and I say that obviously as someone who wears a wig, is everybody knows it's false. 

KELLERMAN:  Wait.  People think you really do have a hair piece, Ticker.  Will you tell them?

CARLSON:  Indeed, it's real.  But look, the point is when someone is wearing a wig or has implants, everybody knows.  So it's self-defeating.  You look worse.  Go bald.  There's nothing wrong with it. 

KELLERMAN:  Yes, but first of all, the denial, thanks.  Again, props on the Gary Hart point the other day.  But Gary Hart, Rafael Palmiero, when you really vehemently deny something...

CARLSON:  That's true.

KELLERMAN:  ... at least do the Bill Clinton, the sexual relations, at least cover yourself in some kind of legalistic way.  But just to deny it and then get busted, that's embarrassing, and that speaks to character, Tucker. 

But if you can't pull off a baldy, what are you going to do?  What are your options as a guy?  You might not be a guy who can pull off the bald head.  What are you supposed to do?

CARLSON:  I totally agree with that.  And you end up looking weaker for all those plugs.  Plus, they're expensive and painful, not to judge. 

KELLERMAN:  As opposed to hair pieces, which work very well. 

CARLSON:  And you know what?  I don't judge people's hairstyles, Max. 

Thanks for joining us. 

KELLERMAN:  Thank you, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  Max Kellerman. 

Still ahead, our producer, Willie Geist, will join us next with tomorrow's headlines. 

Willie, what's up?

WILLIE GEIST, PRODUCER:  I hope you saved receipt, because that's not a pretty one. 

We've got a lot of breaking news over here.  Actually “New York Times” is reporting about what we knew and didn't do about Mohammad Atta before September 11.  So stay tuned for that. 

CARLSON:  All right.  Also ahead, an orgasmic new pill may hit the market, a curious situation involving female Viagra.  Don't miss it.  We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Well here's a situation we're all a bit curious about.  For the 43 percent of women experiencing sexual dysfunction is there finally a version of Viagra they can use?

A National Institutes of Health panel has okayed a clinical trial for an herbal remedy called Zestra.  Preliminary results have been very positive for women with sexual disorders, such as reduced libido and difficulty becoming aroused or achieving orgasm.

Joining me now to discuss Zestra, Dr. Kristene Whitmore.  She's the director of the Pelvic and Sexual Health Institute in Philadelphia.  Dr. Whitmore, thanks a lot for joining us.

DR. KRISTENE WHITMORE, PELVIC AND SEXUAL HEALTH INSTITUTE:          Good evening.

CARLSON:  Now the number that jumps out at me immediately is 43 percent.  Worldwide that would be billions of women experiencing sexual dysfunction.  What does that mean precisely?

WHITMORE:  Well, sexual dysfunction just means the inability to have—enjoying sexual activity.  You have to keep this in perspective.  Forty-one percent of American males have sexual dysfunction and it's 43 percent of American women.

CARLSON:  Doesn't it kind of depend on the man you're with though?

WHITMORE:  Well, there are certainly cognitive overtones but we can identify different forms of sexual dysfunction, desire disorder, certainly arousal disorder where you can't get excited and orgasm disorder and then there's also another category of women with sexual pain.

CARLSON:  Right.  Well, at least in a couple of those categories and certainly in the ability to become aroused it was my perhaps mistaken impression that it kind of depended on who the man was or maybe who the woman was but it depended on the partner.

WHITMORE:  It does not always depend on the partner.  Certainly there are women that have decreased sensation in the area of the clitoris and there are women who just cannot become lubricated or excited.  Having the appropriate partner is very helpful but we can certainly do nerve testing. 

In fact, recently in the American Journal of OBGYN there was an article that reported in women with arousal disorder indeed they had decreased sensation in the genital area, specifically the clitoris.

CARLSON:  So, I mean how do those nerves get dulled in the first place?

WHITMORE:  Well, one of the more common ways is after surgical procedures such as hysterectomy but it can also happen with aging and menopause.  It can happen with previous trauma.  It can happen also when you're taking drugs, such as antidepressants.

CARLSON:  Well, this just seems like a wonder drug.  Why has it taken it this long to come to this stage, to the clinical trial stage?

WHITMORE:  Zestra basically is made from two botanical oils and two extracts, dietary supplements considered safe by the FDA.  It's a small company and basically there was a very nicely designed small pilot randomized controlled trial studying 20 women.  Ten women had arousal disorder and ten women did not and they were told to use Zestra five times in two weeks and then they crossed over.

CARLSON:  Well, let me just stop you right there.  What does it mean to use it?  I mean how does it work?  How is it applied?  Tell me the process.

WHITMORE:  It's applied to the area of the hood of the skin over the clitoris or the labia or just the vaginal area in general and it produces its effect for about—within five to 20 minutes and it lasts for up to an hour.

CARLSON:  So, you don't think the application itself would be part of the reason it works?

WHITMORE:  No, because a lot of women don't apply it directly to the clitoris.  They apply it to the labia itself and it's a nice oil.  It's very easily applied in just a small stroke.  It's not—it doesn't take continued stimulation to apply it.

CARLSON:  Well, speaking of continued stimulation can men use it?  I mean could you steal your wife's supply and what would happen if you did?

WHITMORE:  Well, it really has not been tested in men but I'm sure that that's something that could be looked into in the future and certainly speaking of the male partner it doesn't, the taste is OK as well.  It's kind of a warming taste that's not bad.

CARLSON:  A warming taste what is that, like what does it taste like?

WHITMORE:  I don't know a little bit like ginger.

CARLSON:  A little like ginger?

WHITMORE:  Yes.

CARLSON:  Ah, parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme, interesting.  And what exactly does it, I mean explain, what does it do?  Does it heighten nerve sensation?

WHITMORE:  It heightens nerve sensation.  It increased blood flow because, for example, the barrage oil and the evening primrose (ph) oil both increase the concentration across the gland in E1 and then you've got an increased blood supply, blood flow.

CARLSON:  So, what happens if it doesn't work?  I mean what, you know, what should a woman do who believes she has a sexual disorder, is unable to become aroused for instance, tries Zestra, finds it's not very zesty in her case, you know what's the next step?  What do you do?

WHITMORE:  Well, traditionally physicians didn't ask their patients and their patients didn't tell their physicians or providers about sexual dysfunction.  That would mean it would be time to talk to your doctor because your doctor can order hormone levels, can do nerve testing, can also delve into any of the counseling issues that may overlap the situation such as partner issues.

CARLSON:  All right, thank you very much.  This sounds like the kind of thing that could change the world for the better.

WHITMORE:  Well, I don't know that it's going to change the world but certainly in our first study the placebo achieved 28 percent increase in sexual satisfaction and the drug achieved 85 percent in women with female sexual arousal disorder.  And in the normals, 73 percent of the placebo found in effect in 95 percent of normal women using Zestra found an increase in sexual satisfaction.

CARLSON:  Wait, 95 percent of the normal women who took it found an increase in sexual satisfaction and you with a straight face are willing to say it's not going to change the world?  That is understatement.  But I appreciate your coming on to explain it. 

WHITMORE:  Thank you.

CARLSON:  The rest of us look eagerly forward to it.  Thanks.

WHITMORE:  Thank you very much, Tucker.

CARLSON:  Well at this point it's essentially tomorrow on the East Coast, so it's time to look ahead to what the world will be talking about in the morning.  Let me now bring on someone you usually see only in the cutting room floor, our esteemed producer Willie Geist.

GEIST:  Tucker, I was just relieved to hear that it tastes like ginger because you can mix it in with bak choi or noodles or whatever you want.

CARLSON:  I actually wish I'd asked her the obvious question which is, of course, how do you know?

GEIST:  Testers, researchers.

CARLSON:  Yes.

GEIST:  It's very important work.

CARLSON:  You can't delve too deeply sometimes in these interviews.

GEIST:  That's right. 

CARLSON:  What's going on in the world?

GEIST:  Let's leave that in the past and look ahead to tomorrow, Tucker.

First of all, about five and a half hours from now we'll be expecting the space shuttle Discovery to touch down in Kennedy Space Center.  There was a little trepidation obviously because this is the point at which Columbia broke up a couple years ago.  Some debris did fall from the tank on this launch.

So, about one hour from now the crew will start to prepare for the landing.  Three hours from now they'll strap into their seats and we're hoping for the best, 5:07 a.m. Eastern Time tomorrow it should touch down.  It will be Kennedy Space Center.  They're expecting bad weather there, so it could be New Mexico or California.  They're going to land it one way or the other tomorrow.

CARLSON:  So, once they start bringing it in they can't stop it?

GEIST:  Right.  That's right.  One way or another the shuttle will land tomorrow.  We just don't know where, depending on the weather.

Now another and more late-breaking story, the New York Times is reporting, this is really interesting stuff, the 9/11 plotters including Mohamed Atta and three other hijackers, who you see in the old surveillance video here, in the summer of 2000, Atta and three of the other hijackers identified by a small military operation group and they wanted to tell the FBI about this. 

They were rejected, so basically they wanted to identify and attack this cell a year before 9/11 and they were rejected and the sources come from the Department of Defense and from the Congress as well.

CARLSON:  That is so painful that famous shot of Mohamed Atta walking through the...

GEIST:  It's haunting.

CARLSON: ...Magnetometer at the Portland Jet Port in Portland, Maine where I was this morning.

GEIST:  You bet.

CARLSON:  And every time I walk through that I think of that horrible picture.

GEIST:  Think about it.  It's a haunting image.  So, we'll be watching that tomorrow.

A little bit lighter story, Catherine Harris, our old friend, the former secretary of state who validated the 2000 election for George Bush will announce her run for the United States Senate tomorrow.  That will be exciting.  We'll see what kind of makeup she wears.

Now she, of course, she'll start her five day listening tour.  As you know, those are always exciting and the only problem with her listening tour is no one wants to hear what she has to say.  Karl Rove, Jeb Bush and others have begged her basically not to run.

CARLSON:  That is absolutely true.  The two things about this I would say, one, Catherine Harris is actually much prettier in person.

GEIST:  Is that right?  I'll have to take your word for it.

CARLSON:  She honestly is.  No, I had lunch with her not long ago.  She's very pretty and I think nice.  And, second, you can't overstate how unhappy the Republican leadership is about this.  They're embarrassed of Catherine Harris.  They don't want her to run.  They tried to force her not to run.  And for that one reason, I'm glad she's running.  Good for her.

GEIST:  They feel she can't beat Nelson, so we'll have to wait and see.

And, just minutes from now, about 20 minutes form now Madden 2006, I know you're excited about this, goes on sale for Sony PlayStation 2.  The last edition, 2005, sold 1.35 million copies in the first week.  I know you were frustrated last year, Tucker.  It was more of a wide receiver, running back oriented game.

CARLSON:  Yes, I was, yes.

GEIST:  This year it's about the quarterbacks.  Donovan McNabb is on the cover, so that is exciting.

CARLSON:  Now the guy on the cover, from what I understand not that I, you know, have PlayStation 2 or spend all my free time playing it...

GEIST:  Right.

CARLSON: ...right, but always is the guy who ends up sort of failing in the game right?

GEIST:  That's right.  Michael Vick, all kinds of people, hockey, Danny Heatley (ph), all kinds of people, it's a curse.  It's the EA curse they call it.

CARLSON:  Tell me quick what does Donovan McNabb get paid to have his picture on this, do you know?

GEIST:  I don't know what he gets paid but it's handsome.  Chunky soup is his other big one.  But we'll see.  People are lining up at the moment and midnight Eastern the doors open.

CARLSON:  All right, Willie Geist thanks.

Coming up, you may have thought Arnold Schwarzenegger was a man's man but a new revelation about the California governor may change your mind and give you chills.

Plus, the paparazzi is wounded by a pellet gun at the home of Britney Spears.  Did the guys who invaded the pregnant pop star's baby shower get what he deserved?  Opinions abound when “The Situation” returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Still to come on “The Situation,” news regarding Hillary Clinton's latest political foil.

Plus a cutting room floor story involving a man's padlocked testicles.  We'll have the men and the women who love them (INAUDIBLE).  Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back to “The Situation.”

Tonight, we begin a new segment.  We encourage you, the viewer, to share your thoughts about a story in the news, the show itself or, if you so choose under certain circumstances, me. 

We've already got a few voice-mails in the voice mailbox.  Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETHANY, FRESNO, CA:  Hi, this is Bethany calling from Fresno, California and I wanted to call and leave a message for Tucker Carlson and I wanted to call and tell him about the paparazzi who got shot outside of Britney Spears' baby shower.  I think the paparazzi got what they deserved. 

I mean Britney was just trying to enjoy her baby shower and I think Britney is going to make a really good mom and I don't think enough people are saying that and I just don't think it's fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON:  Well, I totally agree with you.  I mean there's clearly some sort of pro-celebrity vigilante group on the loose shooting paparazzi, at least with beebee guns and I can't say I disagree with them.

Every time people say they hate the press, us, they're thinking of, you know, grubby guys in Hawaiian shirts hounding Britney Spears or Lindsay Lohan, you know.  If one of them gets shot with a beebee gun, I don't have a problem with it.  As to your point that Britney Spears is going to make a great mom, ugh, I hope so.

All right, next call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL, WILMINGTON, DE:  Yes, my name is Bill.  I'm calling from Wilmington, Delaware about the Schwarzenegger story where he has a guard to watch his shoes.  This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.  First of all, who is paying for this?  Is this money coming out of Governor Schwarzenegger's own pocket?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON:  Bill, I think you're missing the real story.  The real story here is that apparently Governor Schwarzenegger has gold-plated shoes.  He's basically Elton John. 

So, at that point, once you've got gold shoes you need someone to protect them.  You could hardly fault him for that.  But I go back to the original crime, which again is the shoes themselves.  Next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRY, POUGHKEEPSIE, NY:  Hey, this is Terry calling from Poughkeepsie, New York.  I just wanted to ask you a question, Tucker.  I heard about this super computer named Max at NYU.  I'm wondering if it's named after the great Max Kellerman who is on your program every single night?  Not only is he on your program, Tucker, but he dominates you every single night.  Talk to you later, bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON:  Well, thanks Terry.  I mean, of course, the beauty of a computer named Max is you can just unplug him if you wanted, not so easy with the other version.  Look, we've got—you've got hurricanes named after people.  You've got ships named after people. 

Naming a computer after someone it's kind of creepy, you know what I mean?  It's just one step closer to computers taking us over, not that I fear that but let's just say I did, I'd be concerned.  All right, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK, YONKERS:  Hey, Tucker, this is Frank from Yonkers just calling up about Jeanine Pirro running against Hillary in '06.  I think this is great.  She's done a lot of good for Westchester and for the city and I think we need a real New Yorker in office representing New Yorkers.  Thanks a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON:  Yes, of course you do, Frank, but you're not going to get one because Jeanine Pirro is not going to win sadly.  But, look, she's not running to win.  She's running for a couple of reasons to raise her own name ID for whatever else she tries to do in the future.

Two, to possibly dig up something sort of interesting in '06, so the Republicans can use it against Mrs. Clinton in '08 when she runs for president.  And, three, to drain Hillary Clinton's bank account before she runs for president.  So, actually she's doing a real service to the Republican Party of New York, such as it is, but maybe not to herself. 

Do you remember the name of the last guy who ran against Hillary?  I covered it and I can't quite remember it, so that tells you what Jeanine Pirro may have in store.  All right, next up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENNIS, RACINE, WI:  Hi, this is Dennis from Racine, Wisconsin, a couple of suggestions for your show.  First of all, lose the bow tie.  Second of all, get a haircut.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON:  Hey, Dennis, I can't respond to you the way I want to because we're on live television.  First of all, I am getting a haircut tomorrow.  Second, it's because of people like you, and I mean this Dennis, that I will never lose the bow tie, ever because people like you don't care for it.  It insights you and therefore I can never change and I won't.  Thanks, Dennis, for helping me remain unreasonable.  I appreciate it.

All right, the Black Widow devours her way into record books again.  Find out how much bratwurst this Burger King employee left lying on the cutting room floor, the details, the gory details when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON:  Welcome back.  We did it at 9:00.  We're doing it at 11:00.  It's the Cutting Room Floor, time to sweep up all the odds and ends of news we couldn't pack into the previous hour, here to help us Willie Geist.

GEIST:  Congratulations to the new king of late night, Tucker Carlson and move over Dave and Jay.  Tucker, you know what I like about you, you're sticking with the answering machine from 1971.  You're not giving that up.

CARLSON:  That's why I'm conservative, Willie.  I hate change.

GEIST:  That's right.  It shows.

CARLSON:  Thank you, sir.

All right, Sonya Thomas is making quite a name for herself on the competitive eating circuit having already announced her arrival on the speed eating scene by finishing second to the great Kobayashi at this year's National Hotdog Eating Championship, an event we brought you here.  Thomas won the brat eating world title on Saturday.  Thomas, who is nicknamed the Black Widow, sucked down 35 bratwursts in ten minutes.

GEIST:  That is impressive.  Since we're on late night may I say what I'm thinking?

CARLSON:  Yes, you may.

GEIST:  I better not.  You know she only weighs...

CARLSON:  I'm a little slow at (INAUDIBLE).

GEIST:  She weighs 99 pounds, big hit, all the more impressive and we're looking to get her on this very show to demonstrate her eating prowess this week.

CARLSON:  I believe we were going to have her on but we couldn't get...

GEIST:  She needs an EMT on staff.  It's a true story.  She needs an EMT just in case.

CARLSON:  You couldn't make that up, though we might if we had to.

Well, if it seems like there's a Starbucks on every corner in the world that's because there is.  No one knows that better than the man who intends to visit every Starbucks on the face of the earth. 

He's known only by his pseudonym Winter.  When he set out on his mission eight years ago, the Houston man has had coffee at 4,775 Starbucks in North America alone, 213 in other places around the globe.

GEIST:  Do not provoke Starbucks.  They're going to build them faster than you can visit them.

CARLSON:  That's right.

GEIST:  Resistance is futile, just give it up, no. (INAUDIBLE) 6,000 in the world, good luck.

CARLSON:  All right, if you're like me, you love spiders and you love sumo wrestling and you've been wondering when someone was finally going to come along and put the two together, like a Reese's peanut butter cup.  Well, wonder no more.  Japan's sumo spider tournament has arrived.  Two spiders are placed on a 20-inch bar and it's all out Arachnid war until one spider falls off. 

GEIST:  That's actually pretty cool.  I would pay to watch that.  But you know how that's not real sumo wrestling?

CARLSON:  How?

GEIST:  They don't have the little dental floss thong up the butt.

CARLSON:  No.

GEIST:  Like they have on the 500-pounders in sumo wrestling.

CARLSON:  But you know knowing the Japanese I bet they're going to make some like micro underwear for the spiders.

GEIST:  Right.  I think you'd have to have eight thongs for the legs.

CARLSON:  He would.  Actually, yes, at least.  You think ahead Willie.  I'm impressed.

GEIST:  That's my job, Tucker.

CARLSON:  Well, a grocery store in Lithuania believes it has caught a ghost on its surveillance cameras.  The somewhat haunting videotape images show a shadow moving quickly around the store's supply room.

Watch the circles areas of your screen and you can clearly see the supernatural being.  The store's owner says he's sure it's a ghost and he just hopes it's the friendly kind.

GEIST:  Wow that is haunting stuff.  Actually the shadow was of a broom.  I don't know if they caught that.  That was actually not a ghost.  There were some supplies in the closet.  And, also in my experience, ghosts don't haunt the A&P.  It's more like cemeteries and mental hospitals or something.

CARLSON:  No, actually I think they do.  Now, I have gone into this before so I'm not going to humiliate myself on our show.

GEIST:  That's right you believe in them.

CARLSON:  I totally believe in that.

GEIST:  Go ahead, late night.

CARLSON:  I'm not going to no, no.  I'm going to control myself.

GEIST:  Everybody's asleep.  Just go ahead.

CARLSON:  You know what I recognize the beauty of the unexpressed thought, yes, and so I'm not going to share what I feel about it.

GEIST:  (INAUDIBLE.)

CARLSON:  OK.  Well, this next story will be very painful to our male viewers but not early as painful as it was for the man who went through it himself.

GEIST:  Oh, dear.

CARLSON:  A New Hampshire man was taken to the hospital last week with a padlock stuck around his testicles.  The man said his friend put the lock on him as a drunken prank.  The men first tried to remove the lock with a hacksaw before going to the emergency room.  Let me just say, before you say a word Willie, I don't believe word one.  This is like one of those light bulb or zucchini stories from the emergency room.

GEIST:  He walked into the emergency room.  It's true (INAUDIBLE).

CARLSON:  It was a drunken prank?

GEIST:  Oh, right, of course.

CARLSON:  Come on.

GEIST:  I have so many questions for this guy.  First of all, it took him two weeks to go to the hospital.  What exactly were you waiting for?  Did you not notice the lock in your groin?  And also the hacksaw, probably not the best way to attack that problem.

CARLSON:  Better than an acetylene torch, I guess that would be my one comment. 

Willie Geist thank you.

GEIST:  All right.

CARLSON:  That's “The Situation” for tonight.  Thank you for watching.

Up next, “Countdown with Keith Olbermann”—Keith.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

END   

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