updated 8/17/2005 10:23:17 AM ET 2005-08-17T14:23:17

Guest: Nola Foulston, Harris Faulkner, Richard Lamunyon, John Silvas, Bertha Propst, Hubert Propst, Brian Propst, Carrie Propst, Oliver Glenn Boyer, Ann Reynolds, Beth Holloway Twitty, Jim Moret, Jessica Canseco, Gene Simmons, Mike Sibley, Walter Long

RITA COSBY, HOST:  And good evening, everybody.  We have another big exclusive show coming your way tonight, a lot.  First, a LIVE AND DIRECT exclusive, evidence you‘ve never seen against BTK, the homicidal sociopath who bound and tortured his victims before killing them.  Dennis Rader has confessed to murdering 10 people and terrorizing Wichita, Kansas, for decades.  His sentencing hearing is set to begin in just a few hours from now.

But tonight, we have something you will not see anywhere else.  Joining me now is Wichita district attorney Nola Foulston.  Nola, I understand you have actually some of the paraphernalia that Dennis Rader used, and that‘s going to be shown in court tomorrow.  What do you have tonight?

NOLA FOULSTON, WICHITA DISTRICT ATTORNEY:  Honestly, Rita, there‘s so much evidence, you wouldn‘t believe it.  I just brought down a slice of it with me today.  Take a look at this kind of information.  What I‘m holding on my lap is one of Dennis Rader‘s actual books.  He was so organized that he put all of his information into books like this, and that information included photographs that he took of every piece of information that he had.

What I‘m showing you right now is a photograph from his home collection, including information on his handcuffs, individual photographs, even a story that says something about BTK.  He was so enamored with what he was doing and photographed all the items, photographs and information that he had in his storage facilities at home.

There were thousands of documents, what we call slicks ads and other things he would prepare for himself to just get ready to go out and commit another homicide.  And in doing so, he‘s contained or kept logs and photographs not only of what he had at home but actual photographs of victims after he had killed them.  These are the kind of things Dennis Rader was known for, being meticulously organized and following each and every killing before, during and after the homicides.  In addition to this...

COSBY:  Now, Nola, as we‘re looking at those pictures, if you can kind of hold them up one at a time?  Which crime scene is this?  I mean, this is stunning.  This is our first glimpse at it.

FOULSTON:  This is part—this is actually part of his “home stash,” as he called it, or what we would refer to by Mr. Rader‘s nomenclature as his “mother lode.”  This was information that was taken after a search warrant at Dennis Rader‘s home and at his office.

He had buckets and barrels and tubs of information, including photographs of deceased victims that he would take after he had killed them, in addition to photographs of his own individual personal items, including handcuffs, knives, ropes, leather, individual clothing items, gloves, ropes, anything you could possibly imagine.

This is what he was talking about.  We‘re talking about detective magazines.  We‘re talking about other types of items that kept in a collection.  We‘re talking about items such as knock-off Barbie dolls that he would dress on his own and continue to use them for bondage and hostages, photographs, items from the newspaper, other information that he would keep in his stash and look at and review.

In fact, some of the things that he got involved with we call “slick ads.”  These were taken right from magazines that you might find on Sunday morning in your newspaper.  Well, for Dennis Rader, these were ecstasy.  He would take these, clip them out and put information on the back of significant sexual fantasies.  He is not only a rapist and a killer, he‘s also a pedophile.  These are the kind of things that he would use to regenerate his sexual fantasies over and over again.  This is the information that Dennis Rader lived by and continued his sexual fantasies.

COSBY:  Now, Nola...

(CROSSTALK)

COSBY:  Nola, when you‘re showing us those pictures—he actually would put markings on them signifying bondage and doing other things to these ads that everybody else would just see, but he would interpret it in a different matter, correct?

FOULSTON:  Right.  Rita, I don‘t want to read you what‘s on the back of these because it is absolutely pornographic, but he would give a name to these and talk about exactly what he intended to do with these child victims and witnesses or individuals in this case.

This particular one talks about what he was going to do with this young girl, who was an innocent model, perhaps.  And this one, this came from a K-Mart ad.  This one came from a different kind of ad in another local magazine just showing underwear or clothing or swimwear.

In addition, we have a very prolific serial killer who likes cereal in the mornings with his breakfast.  Mr. Rader had a collection of hundreds of boxes of cereal.  What did he use it for?  Well, this was one of his glib responses to getting communication to law enforcement, emptying out cereal boxes, filling them with knock-off Barbie dolls in various stages of bondage, hanging them and putting with it various items he had taken from victims, including items and perhaps their Social Security number, jewelry, showing them in various stages of bondage and identifying them as victims he had killed in our community, taking these boxes, putting them out in the country and leaving clues with local media as to where they might be found.

The last thing, of course, in showing you this—this says that this is one of Mr. Rader‘s books.  I hope I have it in the right direction.  This is called his master book.  This is one of about 50 different books that Mr. Rader had, and I‘m just showing you one.  These are absolutely the link that shows that Mr. Rader is not just an ordinary serial killer, he‘s an individual who planned and carried out before, during and after, showing how he trolled and looked for victims and made sure that he knew everything about them prior to the time that he killed them and documented everything after he killed them, looking for attention in our national and local media until he got what he wanted.

COSBY:  It‘s incredible to see this stuff, Nola.  And thank you for sharing it with us because it is really disturbing and gives us insight into his mind.  Do you think he is also going to speak in court in the hearing in the next two days?  Will we hear from him?  And what do you think he could say?

FOULSTON:  Well, I don‘t think he can say much.  At the sentencing hearing on June the 27th, he gave a very sanitized version of the killings.  You know, Mr. Rader has always suggested he did not want to be portrayed in a negative light.  I find it quite amazing that a serial killer would conceive that he could be portrayed in not a negative light.  He‘s a serial killer.  How else would you portray them?

So tomorrow, when we start our hearing, we‘re going to be putting on the truth about what happened in this case.  Mr. Rader does get a chance for what‘s called allocution, being able to talk to the judge.  I‘d like to plug my ears when he talks because there‘s nothing he could say that could change anybody‘s mind in this community.  He‘s bound and determined for a lengthy sentence, and we hope that‘s the last that we hear of him.

COSBY:  Now, luckily, we will hear from the victims because, boy, do they deserve their time in court.  You just left some of the victims‘ families.  Are they ready for tomorrow?

FOULSTON:  Yes, I did.  They certainly are.  And those individuals have suffered for so long.  We‘ve been working with them.  They are expecting to see and know that there will be some very graphic details, but they have resigned themselves to know that it is the best thing for them to have this portrayed in court, so that Dennis Rader‘s image will finally be brought to the public attention and that this individual, who wants to portray himself as a gentleman serial killer, will walk away with a very tarnished reputation and one that he rightfully deserves.  You know, he said the other day that he was a star.  Let me tell you something, Rita, his meteor has crashed!

COSBY:  Well, and I agree with that.  I think it crashed a long time ago.  And good job going after this guy.  We‘ll be watching you.  We‘ll be there tomorrow.  Nola, thank you very much for sharing us—share with us all this information, as tough as it is to look at.

FOULSTON:  Thank you, Rita.  And welcome back—welcome back to

MSNBC.

COSBY:  Thank you very much.  I‘m glad to be here.  Thank you.

And Dennis Rader‘s crimes really terrified the Wichita area for three decades.  And as you‘ll see in this exclusive jail interview obtained by “DATELINE NBC,” shockingly, the admitted killer shows no signs of remorse.  Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENNIS RADER, CONFESSED SERIAL KILLER:  I don‘t think it was actually the person that I was after, I think it was the dream.  I know that‘s not very nice to say about a person, but they were basically an object.  They were just an object.  That‘s all they were.  I had more satisfaction building up to it and afterwards than I did the actual killing of the person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  And joining us now is Wichita former police chief Richard Lamunyon.  Chief, I got to ask you—first of all, it‘s great to talk to you again.  I know I met with you a few months ago.  We just saw these incredible things from the DA.  What does this say to you about the mind of Dennis Rader?

RICHARD LAMUNYON, FORMER WICHITA POLICE CHIEF:  Well, I think, as Nola put it, you know, he‘s trying to tell us, you know, what a great guy he is.  And he—what he‘s done all his life is he has built himself into this frenzy, into this fantasy, and everything else that he‘s done, but he is a murderer 100 percent.  The fact that he has a family, the fact that he has been a church goer and the fact that he‘s done Boy Scouts and has a job—that‘s all a mask.  That‘s all just a smokescreen.  What this guy is, is a murderer.

What I hope and I think what Nola will bring out tomorrow and the next day very clearly is the fact you‘re dealing with an evil, mean, deceptive, vicious individual, and on the pecking order of humanity, he‘s at the very bottom.  He would have you believe otherwise, that he couldn‘t control this.  I can assure you that‘s the furthest thing from the truth.

COSBY:  Now, what do you think it‘s going to be like for the victims‘ families?  Unfortunately, you‘ve gotten to know them over the decades that you‘ve covered this case.  How tough is it going to be for them to look this guy in the eye who did these horrible things to their family members?

LAMUNYON:  Well, when this first came about, you know, my first reaction was it‘ll be hard on them, and it will be hard on them.  But by the same token, I think they have the same desire as we have in law enforcement and in the prosecutor‘s office and in the community at large is to get the true picture of Dennis Rader out.  And in order to do that, these facts have to be made known to the public.

I mean, if you listen to just what he says, he coats everything with roses and honey.  And we need to let people know that this guy is, in fact, a mean, devious person.  And I think the families understand that.  They need the opportunity, and I‘m glad that they‘re going to get it.

COSBY:  I am, too.  And Chief, thank you very much.  I‘ll probably see you tomorrow.  We appreciate it.

And everybody, we‘re going to have a lot more exclusive details tomorrow when I do report LIVE AND DIRECT from Wichita, Kansas.  I‘m going to take you exclusively to the scene of some of those brutal crimes.  Again, that is tomorrow night.  So be sure to watch when we are there on the scene.

And now to a shocking new evidence that has taken place in the search for a Connecticut man who went missing from his honeymoon cruise, a story we‘ve been covering a lot.  More tonight on a new witness.  The first working member of the cruise ship is speaking out.  He says that he saw the newlywed couple in a bad state right before George Smith vanished.

Joining me again is Harris Faulkner of the TV show “A Current Affair.” 

Harris, tell us real quickly, who is this person again?

HARRIS FAULKNER, “A CURRENT AFFAIR”:  Well, Rita, as you just mentioned, he was someone who was working on board the cruise where Jen and George Smith were celebrating their honeymoon.  And I just want to mention real quickly, this is a couple that had spent, you know, a beautiful, picture-perfect wedding in Newport, Rhode Island.  So as I paint this picture by this crew member, keep that in mind.

They went their separate ways that night, according to so many witnesses.  But now this one witness who was working that night, as far as we know sober that night, which sets him apart from anybody else, really, that we‘ve talked with who saw him that night inside the bar with many, many other people—we know that couple had been drinking very heavily.  Other people have told us that.

But what makes this particular witness special and important is his accounting of who George was with specifically and where Jennifer was in the wee morning hours of July 5 after George went missing, or during that time.  First of all, this crew member told us that there were three guys, at least, who were with George.  One he described as a young man from southern California, the other two possibly of Russian decent, one from New York, one possibly from Florida.  As we‘re learning more about them now, their names are Josh, Rusty (ph) and Gregory (ph), in that order.

COSBY:  Now, Harris, I got to interrupt you real quick.  These are the ones we‘ve always heard about, sort of these two Russian guys.

FAULKNER:  Right.

COSBY:  But he confirms them with them.

FAULKNER:  Absolutely.

COSBY:  OK.

FAULKNER:  Confirms them and saw them before and after they left the bar in a very, very drunken state, rode the elevator more than once with them early morning of July 5, said that they were the people who took George back to his cabin.  So...

But the other thing, Rita, that is so critical here is what he says about Jen, according to security and other crew members that he talked with.  And here it is.  Jen apparently left the bar and was found later, around 5:00 o‘clock in the morning, drunk, asleep on a deck by another crew member.  We‘d heard rumors about that.  Now we know from this crew member.

She was then escorted back to the cabin at that point.  So now we‘re starting to kind of link this together.  We‘ve heard stories that she might have gone to the gym the next morning.  We know from other witnesses that she might have been headed to the solarium, same type of area.

But you know, more than likely, she may not have seen anything.  And now this witness points to the fact that probably didn‘t see anything, probably doesn‘t remember much, which takes her somewhat off the suspect list.

COSBY:  What a mess.  All right, Harris, thank you very much.  Good work.  Keep us posted on this story.  We appreciate it.

FAULKNER:  Absolutely.

COSBY:  And of course, we reached out to Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines, whose ship that George Smith was on.  They would not comment on the specifics of the case but did tell us, quote, “Royal Caribbean continues to cooperate fully with the FBI and its ongoing investigation of George Smith‘s disappearance.”

Stay tuned, everybody, because there‘s still a lot more ahead tonight, including help from some big-name Hollywood celebrities in the search for Natalee Holloway.

Coming up, news from Aruba.  Natalee Holloway‘s mother and her next tactic, as money for the searchers is running out.  And an inmate orders a hit on his ex-wife from behind bars.  Find out how playing dead saved her life.  Plus, why this woman is telling everyone she is not Arnold Schwarzenegger‘s mistress.  And Jose Canseco‘s ex-wife tells me what she knows about her husband, steroids and their shrinking effect (ph).  It‘s all ahead LIVE AND DIRECT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSBY:  Imagine having to die to protect yourself from your own ex. 

That‘s what Marsha Hoar (ph) did to avoid a hit by her former husband.  Take a look at this, Hoar covered in blood in her own home.  There‘s one twist, though.  She‘s not really dead.  The picture was a key piece of in evidence a murder-for-hire scheme.

LIVE AND DIRECT tonight from Florida is Sergeant John Silvas from the Martin County sheriff‘s department.  He was the undercover hit man.  Sergeant, this is a fascinating case.  First of all, tell us about how you heard that there was going to be a hit on this woman.

SGT. JOHN SILVAS, MARTIN COUNTY, FL, SHERIFF‘S DEPARTMENT:  Yes, we heard there was going to be a hit through a correspondent source at the Martin County jail.  And he contacted me in July.  And I received several correspondents, and at one point, I needed to visit the source and confirm how serious this man was.

COSBY:  And in fact, I want to read a quote from the affidavit.  This is from the arrest affidavit.  It says—this is you—“I asked him when he wanted it done by, and he stated, quote, ‘As soon as possible.‘  I informed the defendant that I was going to throw the trash out in the water, meaning the body, so no one would know anything was wrong, and he agreed.”

How did he react to that conversation when you told him that?

SILVAS:  He was very direct, and I think, at one point, he said, That‘s cool.

COSBY:  That‘s cool?

SILVAS:  Yes.

COSBY:  Well, and no sign of nervousness?  No regret?  No remorse?

SILVAS:  None whatsoever.  His breathing was a little heavy.  I thought he was a little excited about what was going on.  But that was it.

COSBY:  Let‘s talk about this picture, if we could.  Let‘s move on to the picture of her covered in blood because I think this is incredible.  You get the word.  You play, quote, “the hit man.”  Then you go to the wife, and what do you tell her?  How do you arrange this photo?

SILVAS:  Well, I spoke with her, and I told her that it was necessary for her to play dead in order to complete the transaction on what this man wanted because he wanted her dead.  Basically, I told her she needs to die in order so she can live.  And we mixed the items together there in her house, and it just took about five minutes to get that photograph.

COSBY:  And then you go back to him and show him the photo.  And what does he say?

SILVAS:  Well, the photograph was introduced to a source at the jail.  And I had that on audio and video, where he‘s—I can see both the source and Mr. Hoar speaking, and Mr. Hoar is very excited.  He smiles and shakes my source‘s hand, and he stated that he had the best alibi, that was he was in jail at the time.

COSBY:  Whoa.  Now, Sergeant, what‘s happening to Christopher Hoar now, as we‘re looking at a picture of him?  What‘s his fate?

SILVAS:  Well, he needs to go—he was charged seven months ago with the same thing.  So he hasn‘t gone to trial in that yet.  But now he has a new, additional charge.  And because of his persistence, he‘s solitary with no contact with anyone other than his attorney.

COSBY:  Wow.  Thank you very much.  Good job on your part, and an interesting twist, how to catch this guy.

FOULSTON:  Thank you.

COSBY:  Thank you, Sergeant, very much.

SILVAS:  You‘re welcome.

COSBY:  And tonight, there is a desperate search for a missing woman who is nine months pregnant and nowhere to be found.  The only clue to Amanda Jones‘s whereabouts is her car.  It found near a St. Louis civic center unlocked.  The 26-year-old was last seen on Sunday.  Investigators are focusing the search right now outside of St. Louis.

LIVE AND DIRECT now is Jefferson County sheriff Oliver Glenn Boyer, and also Amanda‘s family.  We‘ve got her dad, Hubert, her mom, Bertha, her brother, Brian, and her sister, Carrie.  Thank you, all of you, for being with us tonight.  I‘m sure it‘s just very, very difficult, but I hope that we can help by getting this out.

Bertha, you talked to your daughter last.  What did she say to you? 

And when was that?

BERTHA PROPST, AMANDA JONES‘S MOTHER:  It was after church on Sunday.  And she said to me, Mom, I love you, and I‘ll see you in a few hours.

COSBY:  And what time exactly that was?  And when did you notice things were fishy, Bertha?

BERTHA PROPST:  I last seen her about between 12:15 and 12:30 on Sunday.  And when Amanda hadn‘t called all day, I knew something was wrong because it‘s not like her not to notify us.

COSBY:  And Hubert, how unusual is it not to hear from Amanda?  How...

HUBERT PROPST, AMANDA JONES‘S FATHER:  Very unusual.

COSBY:  That‘s not in her nature at all?

HUBERT PROPST:  It‘s not in her nature.  She calls—every time she‘s out away from us or away from her child, she‘s always calling to see how

her daughter is doing.  It‘s very unnormal.  She‘s just has to call because that‘s her nature.  She wants to know how mom and dad is doing and how their daughter is doing.

COSBY:  Yes, sounds like she has a wonderful relationship with all of you.  I want to go to Brian and Carrie, if I could.  Brian, what do you think may have happened to her?

BRIAN PROPST, AMANDA JONES‘S BROTHER:  I really don‘t know.  They‘re telling us not to really say a whole lot about the investigation right now.

COSBY:  Is there anyone they‘re pinpointing on?  Is there any, like, key suspect, or are they looking at a whole bunch of things?

BRIAN PROPST:  The one person they‘re looking for—one person they‘re looking at is Brian Westfall (ph).  He‘s right now the one that—that‘s being watched.

COSBY:  And is he the one, the father of the baby, or who is Brian?

BRIAN PROPST:  As I understand, he‘s the father of the baby.

COSBY:  OK.  And do you think that—is your sense that they‘re zooming in on him for some reason?  Because I know she went to meet with him at the civic center, right, Brian?

BRIAN PROPST:  That‘s my understanding, yes.

COSBY:  And Carrie, do you think that this could have something to do with it?  It sounds like that was the last person she was going to meet.

CARRIE PROPST, AMANDA JONES‘S SISTER:  Yes, I think he had something do with it.

COSBY:  You do?  And why is that?  Was there any tension with them before?

CARRIE PROPST:  No, just that, you know, when she first told me she was pregnant, he said he didn‘t want to have anything do with her or the baby, and he didn‘t talk to her at all until Sunday.  And you know, she never came home, and that was the last person to see her.

COSBY:  And Carrie, how tough has this been for you?  This is obviously a sister you loved.

CARRIE PROPST:  It‘s been very tough for me!  She‘s my older sister, and she‘s always looked out for me.  Now I couldn‘t protect her in her time of need!  It‘s just been very hard.  I want to find her and bring her home!

COSBY:  Carrie, if somebody out there is listening and maybe saw some clue or anything, what would you want to say to them tonight, if they‘re watching?

CARRIE PROPST:  I want to say to them, if you saw my sister or if you see her, to please bring her home, or call us and we‘ll come and get her because we love her and we miss her.

COSBY:  Obviously, she has a very loving family.

Let me bring in the sheriff, if I could.  Sheriff, any leads that you‘re looking at right now?  And this is just a beautiful family that obviously loves her deeply.

OLIVER GLENN BOYER, JEFFERSON COUNTY, MD, SHERIFF:  Well, certainly, we‘re hoping that she‘s found or she comes home and that she‘s alive and well and the baby is doing fine.  But once again, the family has indicated and friends have indicated to us that for her to disappear in this way is highly unusual.  She‘s never left her other 4-year-old child for any length of time, always calls and let‘s everybody know where she‘s at.  So that compounded with the fact that she is nine months pregnant has us very concerned.

We‘re looking for the male friend that she went to talk to.  At this time, it‘s a missing persons case because we have no physical evidence to lead us into any criminal investigation.  But certainly, the male friend is instrumental in our investigation, as he‘s the last one to see her and possibly give us leads as to her whereabouts.

COSBY:  Absolutely.  And Sheriff, to that end, has he given any information?  Does he have an alibi himself?

BOYER:  He‘s given us several statements.

COSBY:  Do they match up?  Do they match up?

BOYER:  Well, he‘s cooperating with us.  Right now, he has an attorney, so we‘re talking to him through his attorney.  And I have to say that he is cooperating.

COSBY:  And Bertha, let me go back to you.  I also want to let people know that if they are watching tonight, there is a tip line out there.  If we can put that up on the screen real quick because I think it‘s important for anyone who has any information to call.  The number is 636-797-5526.  That‘s the number that you see there on your screen.

Bertha, what would you like to say if somebody‘s watching here at home tonight and has some sort of clue, some information?

BERTHA PROPST:  Please, if you have any information or you‘ve seen our daughter, please just call.  Don‘t be afraid.  Try to help out this young girl because we love her, we miss her, and her daughter misses her.  And I want her home.

COSBY:  Well, we all do, and we‘re going to keep all of you in our prayers tonight.  And thank you for coming on.  We know it‘s tough, and I hope you get good news soon, all of you.  Thank you.

BERTHA PROPST:  Thank you.

HUBERT PROPST:  Thank you.

BRIAN PROPST:  Thank you.

CARRIE PROPST:  Thank you.

COSBY:  And a happy ending, fortunately, in the three-day search for an 11-year-old girl, a story that we talked about last night.  This is a girl from Brooklyn, New York.  We asked for your help in finding Jessica Saji.  Now, she disappeared from her home Friday night after her mother asked her to take out the trash.  The good news is New York police found her alive and unharmed.  Jessica is now reunited with her mother and her 6-year-old brother.  Great to see.

And coming up, we‘ve got a story.  A woman is telling the world that she is not Arnold Schwarzenegger‘s mistress.  So why does she think she was paid to keep quiet?  That‘s interesting.  Plus, we‘re LIVE AND DIRECT from Aruba with Natalee Holloway‘s mother, who now has some big names wanting to help out.

And if you have a news tip or some amazing video that you want to share with us, be sure to call us and tell us all about it.  The phone number for my brand-new tip line is 1-877-TIP-RITA, 1-877-TIP-RITA.  Stay with us, everybody.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSBY:  And new developments tonight out of Aruba in the search for Natalee Holloway.  Money to pay for two of the searchers was supposed to run out tomorrow, but late tonight, word that they‘ve secured more money for the search.  Also some big-named celebrities are now getting involved.  Word tonight that actress Courteney Cox and David Arquette are planning to help out. 

Live now from Aruba.  We have Natalee‘s mother Beth Twitty and also her grandmother, Ann Reynolds.  It‘s great to see both of you.  How are you doing tonight? 

ANN REYNOLDS, NATALEE HOLLOWAY‘S GRANDMOTHER:  Doing fine. 

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  Hi, Rita. 

COSBY:  Hi, Beth and Ann.  It‘s great to have both of you. 

I understand, just a few minutes ago, we just got word that Jim Knox, one of the folks with the search unit, got a couple more dollars and he‘s able to search for, what, another week?  Have you heard that, as well? 

TWITTY:  No, I have not heard that.  I knew that he was still looking for a backer late this afternoon.  So I‘m glad that that financial backing came through. 

COSBY:  Yes, it sounds at least some money to at least go for another week.  Well, money has been tight.  Has that been tough for you?  I mean, now, as it goes on, I‘m sure you just want to put out a plea for anybody to help, because it is getting tough as it drags on. 

TWITTY:  Well, Rita, I mean, the community of Birmingham has just been incredibly supportive.  And even, you know, Natalee‘s class, they have done such huge fundraisers over the summer.  And, you know, and not only that, I mean, some supporters from, you know, from all over the U.S. have just anonymously made donations.  And everybody‘s been very supportive, Rita. 

COSBY:  Are you worried, though, Beth, that, with time passing and money getting tight, that it‘s just got to be tough for you as a mom? 

TWITTY:  You know, well, you know, of course, that‘s always a concern.  And, you know, we just—you know, we know we want to continue forward, and we‘re just so grateful when fundraisers happen and things come through, Rita. 

COSBY:  Absolutely.  And, Ann, I‘m sure that, if anyone is watching tonight, there are a lot of people who this case has just touched them and they want to help out.  What would you like to say to folks who are listening tonight, Ann, about that? 

REYNOLDS:  Well, I don‘t really know.  I just want them to support Beth like I do and just do the best we can.  And she‘s got a lovely family and everything, so I really don‘t have—that‘s it.

COSBY:  It must be great for you to be down there, Ann.  How does it feel for you to be down there with Beth and everyone? 

REYNOLDS:  Well, I really wanted to come.  But I knew that I would probably get upset.  That‘s what I was afraid of when I saw her.  But I didn‘t. 

And we have been places today.  We had someone that was nice enough to take my niece and I.  We went around.  I mean, I think we saw everything in Aruba. 

And now I kind of know, well, what‘s what, when they talk about the pond.  I know what the pond is.  And I really wanted to see that prison.  And then we saw the—we just saw everything.  We‘ve saw the Internet grill, and we saw—I just can‘t even remember right now what—we were gone the whole day. 

COSBY:  Ann, if you could see any of those folks...

REYNOLDS:  It was really nice. 

COSBY:  ... you know, the folks with the Internet grill, I know Beth, you know, tried to talk to Deepak.  We‘re looking at some pictures of it.  If you had a chance to talk to any of these brothers or Joran Van Der Sloot, what would you want to say to them, Ann? 

REYNOLDS:  I would just beg for them, if you‘ll just tell us and give us some information, so we want to know where Natalee is and we get her back one way or the other, that I‘m sure this whole family would be glad to move out of here. 

And then the officials can take care of them.  We‘re just gone if they would just let us know something.  But we know nothing. 

COSBY:  Which is the hard part.  So hard.  And, Beth... 

REYNOLDS:  It‘s hard.  It is. 

COSBY:  It must be.  And I can‘t imagine what both of you are going through.

And, Beth, the good news is, is sounds like you‘re also getting some other help from some big-named celebrities, we were just hearing a few hours before the show, Courteney Cox of “Friends” fame and David Arquette, you know, her husband.  Courteney is from the same hometown as Natalee. 

How does it feel to know, you know, now it‘s getting even more attention, and hopefully this will put some more pressure and maybe get some more funds?

TWITTY:  Oh, I mean, I think it‘s incredible, Rita.  And you know, we are grateful for all the support.  And you know, this is something that my sister-in-law, Marcia Twitty, is instrumental in.  And we just—I mean, it‘s just incredible, Rita, absolutely incredible. 

COSBY:  How does it feel?  What would you like to say to all the folks who are thinking at home, should I donate, should I not donate, should I come to the fundraiser?  That‘s a great feeling, huh? 

TWITTY:  Oh, oh absolutely.  And, you know, Rita, even from the financial support for just, you know, people that just send such personal letters, and cards, and e-mails are just—you know, all the support is just—it‘s so appreciated and it really is getting us through it. 

COSBY:  Well, that‘s terrific.  Well, we‘re here for you, whatever you need, Beth and Ann.  Thank you very much.  And we‘ll talk with you soon, both of you. 

REYNOLDS:  Thank you a lot. 

TWITTY:  Thank you.

COSBY:  Thank you, ladies, very much. 

And now we‘re going to go to California and a bizarre report about Arnold Schwarzenegger and infidelity.  Tonight, a woman is telling the world that she has not and never has been romantically linked to the governor.  Here is what she told the TV show “Inside Edition.”

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIGI GOYETTE, SAYS SHE‘S NOT SCHWARZENEGGER‘S MISTRESS:  Not only am I not his mistress, I didn‘t come forward. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  Well, very interesting.  Jim Moret is the chief correspondent for “Inside Edition.”  He‘s LIVE & DIRECT tonight from Los Angeles. 

Why did all these allegations come to light in the first place, Jim? 

JIM MORET, CORRESPONDENT, “INSIDE EDITION”:  Well, during the election and first of all, let me say congratulations on your new show.  It‘s good to see you again, Rita. 

COSBY:  Thank you.  It‘s great to see you, too.  Thank you. 

MORET:  During the election, there were allegations of infidelity regarding Arnold Schwarzenegger.  This woman was identified in a 2001 article from “The National Enquirer” that she was his mistress of seven years. 

And she came forward and was very clear with “Inside Edition” and said, “Look, I was not his mistress then.  I have never been his mistress.  I‘ve been his friend.” 

They were both body builders and actors.  They‘ve known each other for more than 20 years.  That‘s not the new disturbing element here. 

The disturbing element is a new allegation that she, this woman, Gigi Goyette, who, as I said, has been a friend of Schwarzenegger‘ for some 20 years, she says she received $20,000 from AMI, which is American Media, Inc., the parent company of the “National Enquirer,” two days after Arnold Schwarzenegger announced his candidacy. 

Why?  She says, first she believed it was to write a book.  Now she believes it was for hush money so that she wouldn‘t say anything negative during the campaign. 

Now, the link that‘s disturbing is that this same company, AMI, also entered into an agreement with Arnold Schwarzenegger just two days before he was sworn in as governor, and that was for a reported $5 to $8 million over years to serve as an executive editor of the health and fitness magazines, which some watchdog groups have successfully claimed that represented a potential conflict of interest. 

So that‘s the new twist here that some people are finding disturbing. 

COSBY:  No, very disturbing.  And you know, and even the way she describes it is also so wacky.  It‘s still unclear to me—I want to show a little clip of sort of how she described her relationship with Schwarzenegger.  Let‘s take a listen. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOYETTE:  I‘ve done it in front of Maria.  “Hello, how are you?  Good to see you.”  Kiss both cheeks.  There‘s a million fish in the sea.  Why would I want to pursue a man who‘s married with three children and a bun in the oven? 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  What do you make of her relationship? 

MORET:  She was describing her relationship, which some have called a rather intimate relationship.  She said, no, she‘s very friendly with her friends.  She didn‘t do anything untoward.  He never addressed her in a way in which that she felt was inappropriate. 

And nothing she did with him was anything that she wouldn‘t do in front of other people.  She maintains that she was friendly with Arnold Schwarzenegger and his wife, Maria Shriver.  But that after that 2001 article came out, alleging that she was his mistress of seven years, which, again, she refutes, she said that she was cut off and basically blacklisted, if you will.

She hasn‘t had any contact with Arnold Schwarzenegger.  She wanted to come forward and say to both Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver, one, she‘s not his mistress.  She is a very apologetic to any harm that any of this story has caused them. 

COSBY:  All right, well, thank you very much.  And I want to read a statement, if I could, Jim, before we go from the governor‘s press secretary.  It says, quote, “I‘m not going to characterize the relationship.”  That‘s as far as they would go when we asked them about this story. 

Thank you very much, Jim.  Always good to see you, my friend, thanks. 

MORET:  Thanks, Rita. 

COSBY:  And coming up, a risky rescue off the coast of Florida.  A plane crash, a fishing boat, and a dramatic tale of heroism. 

But next, LIVE & DIRECT with the ex-wife of Jose Canseco.  He expose in “Playboy” magazine dishes the dirt on her ex and steroids.  She has some explosive allegations.  Stick with us, everybody. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE CANSECO, FORMER BASEBALL PLAYER:  If it were a proper system, completely educating athletes and so forth, I truly believe that no Major League player would do steroids, absolutely not. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  And that was Jose Canseco back in March as the congressional hearings on steroids and baseball.  We all saw that.  Well, his ex-wife, Jessica Canseco, is now on the cover of “Playboy‘s” September issue, where she‘s doing an expose of her own.  She‘s talking about being married and divorced to the baseball legend. 

She joins us now live, right here in our studio.  Great to see you. 

JESSICA CANSECO, EX-WIFE OF JOSE CANSECO:  Thank you, Rita.

COSBY:  You look beautiful. 

CANSECO:  Thank you.  Thank you.

COSBY:  What was it like to pose for “Playboy”?  Takes a lot of courage.

CANSECO:  Yes, it was amazing.  They were great, so professional, and it was really fun.

COSBY:  Now, you‘ve got a child though.  Is that going to be tough to tell you child, “Look, Mom‘s in ‘Playboy‘”?

CANSECO:  I don‘t think so.  We‘re very open and close.  And when the time comes, we‘ll talk about it.

COSBY:  You have a lot to talk about, of course, about your ex-husband.  I want to show one of the quotes.  This is about his infidelity, OK?  He says, “Two girls in Detroit, strippers, brown hair.”  He‘d have to write down descriptions, because there were so many of them.  How did you handle his womanizing? 

CANSECO:  I got divorce, basically.  Yes, it was hard, yes.

COSBY:  Did you know it was going on at the time?

CANSECO:  I did.  And I kept getting stuck in it.  And I stayed, and left, and stayed, left, you know, go back and forth for years.  And it was very difficult, but finally got the courage to leave and get divorced.

COSBY:  And why did you stay, because he was a baseball player, because it was sort of common?

CANSECO:  No, I fell in love with him.  And we, you know—you stay in a marriage.  You don‘t leave.  My mom stayed in my dad‘s marriage.  And I wasn‘t taught to leave, and I loved him.  We had a baby, so...

COSBY:  You had a lot at stake at that point, too.

CANSECO:  Yes, yes.

COSBY:  I want to also show another quote you talk about.  This sort of describes him as a person.  It says, “Honestly, I don‘t think I ever said no to him.  Jose was always in complete control.”

What kind of a guy was Jose Canseco?

CANSECO:  Somewhat controlling.  You know, he wanted it his way.  And I was his wife.  So I let him do what he wanted, basically. 

COSBY:  How pervasive was that sort of, “I want it all.  I‘m going to do, you know, whatever I want to do, cheat on whoever I want to cheat on,” in the whole baseball regime, in the whole arena? 

CANSECO:  I think it‘s very common.  You know, I can‘t speak for all the other players and wives, but I believe it‘s very common. 

COSBY:  What about steroids?  Because he came out and obviously made a lot of headlines about his own steroid use.  How often did you see him do it?  What did you see firsthand? 

CANSECO:  All the time, since the time that I met him in ‘93, he pretty much came out and talked openly to me about it.  And all the years that I was with him, we openly talked about it.  And he did it all the time. 

COSBY:  What effects did it have on him, first physically? 

CANSECO:  I mean, his size.  First of all, he‘d get larger and smaller if he‘d go on or off.  And his body kind of deteriorated.  He had surgery after surgery.  And he was injured a lot.  I think that definitely affected him.

And his mind, it also affected him emotionally.  He was kind of depressed.  He would go back-and-forth from being depressed and up and down. 

COSBY:  Yes, that‘s what I heard.  I heard you said that you described him sort of as angry, that there was sort of this... 

CANSECO:  Yes, tension a lot. 

COSBY:  Yes. 

CANSECO:  Yes, so it was hard. 

COSBY:  What was life overall, like, for you with him, as you look back now?  How long were you two married? 

CANSECO:  Four to five years.  It was difficult.  It was a tough relationship.  And if I could do it again, I would definitely do it again. 

COSBY:  You would do it again? 

CANSECO:  I would do it again...

COSBY:  Even despite the highs and the lows you‘re telling me about here?

CANSECO:  I would do it again, but I would do it differently though.  I would definitely do it differently.  I would leave, and I wouldn‘t go back a million times.  I would have sought therapy, you know, earlier than I did, for him and I both, see if there would have been a chance, but you learn. 

COSBY:  Good to learn.  Well, good advice for other women.  Thank you very much for coming on. 

CANSECO:  Thank you for having me, Rita.  Thank you so much.

COSBY:  I appreciate you being here.  Thank you so much, Jessica. 

And still ahead, an amazing story.  Two fishermen in the right place at the right time make a daring rescue at sea.  They join me with their story.  That‘s ahead. 

And next, Gene Simmons is going to teach you how to rock.  The legendary lead singer of KISS joins me LIVE & DIRECT with his new reality show.  Find out what it is.  That‘s coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GENE SIMMONS, KISS LEAD SINGER:  I want to see that name up in the marquee, big lights.  “Presenting, tonight, live, on stage.” 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I‘ll have to think about that. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  Well, he is the rocker with the giant tongue, KISS front man Gene Simmons.  And he‘s got a new reality show called “Gene Simmons‘ Rock School.” 

It‘s a real school of rock.  He‘ll be teaching classically trained boarding school kids in Great Britain how to be a rocker, something that he knows a lot about.  And Gene Simmons, my pal, joins me now live. 

Great to see you, Gene.  You look terrific. 

GENE SIMMONS, KISS LEAD SINGER:  Hello, Rita.  How are you? 

COSBY:  I‘m terrific.  Why did you want to do this show, this reality show? 

SIMMONS:  Well, you know, I don‘t have a life.  There‘s nothing else going on.

COSBY:  Yes, no, I know that.  I only see your name all the time. 

Come on. 

(LAUGHTER)

SIMMONS:  No, you‘re very sweet.  The people are over in England, actually, offered me the chance to go back and maybe revisit the notion that perhaps I was a failed school teacher.  Because, over 30 years ago, I tried my hand at it, at PS-75 in Spanish Harlem.

And you know, I‘ve always—it didn‘t last long, because this group that had me wearing higher heels and more make-up than your mommy ever did, you know, sort of took off very fast.  And ever since then, I‘ve been sticking my tongue out and raising hell.

But I always wondered—I wonder if I was any good as a teacher.  So this was a chance to sort of get a second chance and see if I was any good. 

COSBY:  Now, how tough is it to turn someone into, quote, “a rock god”?  How difficult is it? 

SIMMONS:  Well, you know, rock and roll is a very bizarre job.  You don‘t need any qualifications.  In fact, most of the people that do this for a living, myself included, I have to admit, aren‘t qualified to do very much more than ask you if you want fries with that, which is to say, translation, in English, it means that we can‘t read or write music.

And so the very first thing I had to teach the kids, even though they can play cello, and oboe, and all kinds of o‘s, is that classical music, and being able to read and write has nothing the hell to do it.  It‘s all about charisma, and being able to grab people by the neck and demand their attention.  And then the music comes.  It‘s after the fact. 

COSBY:  Well, I want to show a little clip from the show.  This is a couple of the guys being asked about you.  Let‘s show this. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIMMONS:  Rock is about grabbing everybody‘s attention, grabbing them by the scruff of their necks, and making them do what you want to do, like this. 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I think he‘s really scary, because he‘s like really in-your-face and stuff. 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Never really met anyone as arrogant as him, really. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  Really scary.  Any fun moments, too, that you‘ve had with the show? 

SIMMONS:  Well, sure.  You know, I was reminded of how silly this whole thing is, that the actual best singer in the band didn‘t belong on stage, and that the guy who was tone deaf actually belonged as the lead singer in the band.  And that‘s what it‘s really all about.  Look at them, I mean, they‘re magnificent.  These people can...

COSBY:  This is amazing.  And I got to ask you before we close, Paula Abdul.  You were a judge on “American Idol.”  She‘s been cleared.  Did you see anything sort of hanky-pankyish going on, on that show, when you were there? 

SIMMONS:  Oh, my God, you‘re talking about Hollywood, which is populated by human beings, who tend to wander?  Look, there can‘t be a double standard.  If I‘m allowed to spread my seed the way all men do on the face on the planet, you girls don‘t believe that guys ever say, Paula should be able to do whatever she wants and with whomever she wants.  In fact, the more the merrier. 

COSBY:  I love the analogy, spread your seed.  Gene, thank you.  Always great to have you on, my friend. 

SIMMONS:  I am a big fan of yours.  You know that. 

COSBY:  Thank you, vice versa.  We appreciate it.

And coming up, two fishermen make a risky rescue off the coast of Florida after a plan goes down right in front of them.  They‘re two of my real heroes, and you‘re going to meet them, next. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSBY:  A real hero‘s story out of south Florida tonight.  Two fishermen save the lives of seven people from a small plane that crashed at sea. 

They were just about six miles off the coast of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, when the twin-engine plane headed for the Ft. Lauderdale airport crash-landed not far from their boat, and that‘s when they jumped into action. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  It happened so fast, you know?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  How are they doing? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Pretty freaked out.  I mean, I don‘t normally crash planes in the ocean every day, so... 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Were you a pilot? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Hell, no, I was a passenger. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  And joining us now, Mike Sibley and Walter Long.  They are our real heroes. 

Mike, tell us, first of all, what did you see?  You suddenly saw this small plane coming down.  What did you see before your eyes? 

CAPT. MIKE SIBLEY, RESCUED SEVEN PEOPLE AT SEA:  Well, actually we were having a really big time fishing, and we were hooking up our fish, and this plane came cruising in.  And it was very low, but we were kind of busy with the fish.

But we realized something was wrong, but it was heading toward the airport.  And we kept about fishing.  And Walter actually happened to notice it come on down and actual hit the water. 

COSBY:  Wow, Walter, what did it look like when you saw it come in? 

WALTER LONG, PLANE CRASH RESCUER:  Well, when it was coming in, you could tell that there was something wrong, you know, and it turned in front of the boat, so I walked to the other side of the boat and watched it.  And it just—he made a perfect water landing.  And at the very end, the nose tipped down. 

COSBY:  And I understand that a lot of the people didn‘t have life vests.  You‘ve got a life vest to show us, right? 

LONG:  Yes, I think we do.  

COSBY:  Yes, you are holding it up there.  But only some of them had life vests on, is that correct? 

LONG:  I know that the baby didn‘t have one on.  And I‘m not sure about anybody else. 

SIBLEY:  There were life vests stranded across the water when we arrived...

(CROSSTALK) 

COSBY:  There were.  But not on them?  Not on them, right? 

SIBLEY:  Some of the people had them on, and some of the people didn‘t. 

COSBY:  And real quick, you guys, you have a boat hook, which you actually used to rescue the people.  Can you show us and tell us how that works? 

LONG:  Well, this is a telescoping boat hook.  You know, you can extend it out, you know?  And I opened up the marlin door in the back of the boat and just reached out.  And the pilot grabbed it, and he pulled the lady that had the baby in first.  And I grabbed the baby, put the baby—you know, gave it to one of the girls that was on with us.  And then we got the injured lady on next, and then just continued from there. 

COSBY:  Wow, and Mike, you got one second, real quick.  How does it feel to be a hero, both of you? 

SIBLEY:  Great. 

LONG:  Real good.  Real good, Rita. 

COSBY:  What a great feeling to both of you.  Thank you very much.  And we appreciate all you did.  I know the folks—actually we talked to some of the folks who you saved, and they were so appreciative for all your efforts.  Thanks, everybody. 

SIBLEY:  Thank you. 

LONG:  Thank you, Rita. 

COSBY:  And that does it for me tonight.  I‘m going to see you tomorrow from Wichita, Kansas, where I‘m going to be reporting about the BTK sentencing hearings. 

Remember, they start tomorrow.  We‘re going to be live from Wichita with the very latest.  Stay tuned everybody.  Don‘t touch the dial.  “SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY” starts right now with my pal, Joe.

Take it away, Joe.

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST, “SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY”:  Hey, thanks a lot, Rita.  Greatly appreciate it.

Tonight‘s top story, a SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY shocker.  We‘re going to take you inside the missing honeymooner‘s cabin the night George Smith IV vanished.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

END   

Content and programming copyright 2005 NBC.  ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED.  Transcription Copyright 2005 Voxant, Inc.  ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce or redistribute the material except for user‘s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon NBC and Voxant, Inc.‘s copyright or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.]

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