updated 8/18/2005 10:14:21 AM ET 2005-08-18T14:14:21

Guest: Racehl Maddow, Mac Kellerman

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST, “SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY”:  That‘s all the time we have tonight in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.  In the words of Ron Burgundy, stay classy, San Diego, because THE SITUATION WITH TUCKER CARLSON starts right now with Alison Stewart. 

Alison, what‘s in THE SITUATION tonight?

ALISON STEWART, HOST:  Thank you.  There is so much, Joe.  Thanks a lot.

It‘s 11 p.m. in Hohokus, New Jersey, 9 p.m. in Tukamari (ph) -- or something like that—New Mexico, 8 in Rancho Cucamonga, California, and we are live at MSNBC world headquarters with the latest news and info, including a former child actor accused of murder, actor Jude Law‘s desperate need for a pair of pants, and new poll that is good news for chubby, hairy guys. 

Here to help make heads or tails or at least help me with the big words. 

RACHEL MADDOW, AIR AMERICA RADIO HOST:  Tukenkari (ph).

STEWART:  Thank you.  From Air America Radio, Rachel Maddow.  Which you know, Tucker, who is not here tonight, you and I all have something in common. 

MADDOW:  I can‘t imagine.

STEWART:  It is the riddle of the night. 

MADDOW:  What is it?

STEWART:  We have all hosted a show called “Unfiltered.” 

MADDOW:  You hosted a show called “Unfiltered” too?

STEWART:  For years. 

MADDOW:  You were first?

STEWART:  I may have been.  This was about 10 years ago, on the MTV. 

MADDOW:  Well, when Tucker had his “Unfiltered” show on PBS, I challenged him on Air America to a boxing match, and whoever won would keep the name.  He never responded. 

STEWART:  Well, I might want to get in on that action.  A three-way match.

MADDOW:  Maybe in a cage.  Maybe in South Carolina, this could be great. 

STEWART:  Ratings bonanza. 

MADDOW:  Yes.

STEWART:  First up, another suggestion that the United States missed a chance to prevent the terror attacks of September 11.  Recently declassified documents provided to the “New York Times” revealed back in July of 1996, State Department analysts told the Clinton administration that Osama bin Laden‘s move from Sudan to Afghanistan would embolden the al Qaeda leader. 

The analyst went on to say his operations could become more dangerous and increase the likelihood of his striking targets outside of the Middle East. 

So as I read this article, Rachel, couple things struck me.  First of all, it was the organization that supplied the document to the “New York Times,” was Judicial Watch, which is a conservative legal group. 

MADDOW:  Right. 

STEWART:  So my question was, why did they supply the documents?  Why the “New York Times” not do this reporting independently?  Those are my two first ones, which I‘ll throw out to you. 

MADDOW:  Well, why did Judicial Watch provide the documents?  Because there‘s a way to blame Clinton.  There‘s a way to blame Clinton.  That‘s what they want to do able to do.

I mean, Clinton was warned that bin Laden might become a threat, so he tried to get him out of Sudan.  He launched failed military strikes in Afghanistan to try to kill him.  That‘s what we have from Clinton in ‘96. 

Bush in 2001, warned in August when he was on vacation in Crawford that bin Laden was determined to strike in the U.S.  Now we had 9/11 a month later, and now we‘ve had failed military strikes to try to kill bin Laden in Afghanistan.  What‘s the difference?  Time passed, but there‘s way to try to blame Clinton for this, and so of course, they‘re trying for it. 

STEWART:  So why is the blame so important?  Why is it important to us to assign this.  I mean, in terms of liberals will also point to that PDB of August 6...

MADDOW:  That‘s right.

STEWART:  ... that says bin Laden poised to strike in the United States.

MADDOW:  Right.

STEWART:  Conservatives will point to this idea that Bill Clinton should have known better and had the information.  Why is blame so very important at this point?  Shouldn‘t we be beyond this, really?

MADDOW:  Well, I feel like 9/11 happened, and if anybody in the United States could have stopped it, I‘m not a conspiracy theorist about this, I think everybody would have stopped it. 

But the fact is Bush was president on 9/11, and he‘s actually benefited from that.  He decided after 9/11 to go and invade Iraq, which makes no sense, but he has benefited from being the wartime incumbent president since 9/11.  No wartime incumbent president in U.S. history who wanted to get re-elected ever failed.  He came closer than everybody, but he‘s benefited from that.  It‘s worth talking about the fact that just being in office doesn‘t necessarily give you an asset here. 

STEWART:  But of course, there are people who would say he has done a fine job, as well. 

We are moving on to another story, Chris Hackett in Brooklyn, New York, an artist with a talent for creating controversial, maybe dangerous art.  Mr. Hackett is in the process of creating a new work, which will be a functioning suitcase bomb from materials bought at chain stores.  It will be part of a show at a lower Manhattan gallery, shortly before September 11 of this year. 

The device, he says, will have the explosive power of four sticks of dynamite and perhaps more in the figurative sense. 

Is this bad taste, or is this emotionally trying work?

MADDOW:  I think that the issue here is that the curator of the show says that he‘s got Mr. Hackett to swear up and down. 

STEWART:  Part of the article.   It‘s like double pinkie swear this isn‘t going to blow up. 

MADDOW:  And he‘s really hoping that everybody in the gallery is going to be safe.  And come on, I mean, the gallery, like a store or a school or anything has to be sure the people there are safe.  So obviously they need to make sure that it‘s not going to go off. 

But I don‘t have a problem with using a weapon as art.  I mean, I just don‘t.  Conceptually, you can use anything as art, as long as there isn‘t somebody going to get hurt in the process. 

STEWART:  But I want to go back to the danger aspect, because this artist nearly blew off half his face. 

MADDOW:  Broke his jaw.  Yes.

STEWART:  He broke his jaw and an orbital socket fracture, because he was not able to handle a confetti cannon, which is funny, but so not. 

MADDOW:  But the principle of the matter.  So there is the issue, can this guy make something safe?  Can the curator guarantee the people in the gallery are going to be safe on the one hand?

But there‘s the principle of the matter: can you use a weapon as art?  There is a kooky congressman who wants to be the head of the homeland security committee in the house, Curt Weldon of Pennsylvania, who carries around a fake nuclear suitcase bomb around the Capitol and keeps one in his office.  I mean, if Curt Weldon can do that in the Capitol, this guy can do one in a gallery.  I‘m not going to vote for Weldon, but if that fake bomb makes him feel better, makes him feel more secure, he can carry it around. 

STEWART:  Mr. Weldon has a supporter as well as Mr. Hackett in Rachel Maddow. 

California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger approval ratings have fallen fairly drastically since election.  Could this be the reason for his bold stance on an emotional issue?

He has proposed a slate of strict laws for sex offenders, including lifetime monitoring of paroled offenders by global positioning satellite, GPS.  A similar proposal for convicted pedophiles was rejected by the Democratically controlled state senate in June. 

Too cynical to suggest it‘s a political ploy or just is this a dad of four kids who sees something that he feels passionately about?

MADDOW:  Maybe he feels passionately about it, but the timing is a little weird.  I mean, A, it‘s $500 million a year that he wants to spend on this program.  The people in California need to know that‘s how much it‘s going to cost them. 

On the other hand, it‘s less than a week ago that the “L.A. Times” said that the company—the publishing company that paid Schwarzenegger $5 million to be the fake editor of those steroid magazines...

STEWART:  Right.

MADDOW:  ... also paid $20,000 to keep the latest “I had an affair with Arnold” story out of paper.  So if this guy is trying to distract from his problems, his political problems, it was weird that he chose a sex thing. 

Concern about this, as I was reading, part of 52-page bill, just toward the end of the session, so the idea people wouldn‘t have the time to read through it.  They did this in Missouri, as well.  They have very, very strict laws, and it happened just at the end of the session.  That was 178-page bill.  Something this important, to get buried in these crime bills doesn‘t strike me as right. 

MADDOW:  Especially on such a hot-button issue.  There is ongoing hysterical and occasionally important debate in this country on what to do about sex offenders, but the way to do it is not to cram something through at the end of the session, 52 pages in the middle of a political crisis, trying to distract people.  It‘s not the way to make this kind of law. 

BRYANT:  And there is no way to make turn this gracefully, so I‘m just going to go for it. 

MADDOW:  All right.

BRYANT:  It seemed like Jude Law was in every new movie last spring, as she knows the story.  And you had to wonder if he was risking overexposure.  There‘s no question about it now: some lucky paparazzi caught Jude with pant down.  Literally. 

Nice pixilation.

MADDOW:  I was just going to say, the art department wins for this one.  Wow. 

BRYANT:  Wow.  The mercilessly worldwide tabloid media are decidedly and clearly unimpressed with what they‘ve seen.  Today‘s “New York Post” quoted one lady media type as saying he‘s no Tommy lee. 

Law‘s misfortune follows his involuntarily made public affair with his nanny, which may have cost him that fiancee, Sienna Miller.  So the big discussion among THE SITUATION peanut gallery was... 

MADDOW:  Don‘t say peanut gallery. 

STEWART:  Point taken. 

MADDOW:  Sure.  Sorry. 

STEWART:  Our fine production staff.  The big question was is the picture, bigger detriment to Jude Law‘s career or the affair with the nanny?

MADDOW:  Well, the—Jude Law‘s God-given endowment, or lack thereof, shall we say, you can blame on God.  He didn‘t have anything to do with it.  It just happened. 

The nanny, sleeping with the nanny, there was no God in the room or on the couch or wherever they were.  He can‘t blame anybody for himself for that.  That shows that he‘s a heel, that he‘s a bad guy, that he cheated on his fiancee.  The fact that he was born with something not too exciting, that you know, you can‘t really blame yourself. 

STEWART:  Is he still going to get chicks?

MADDOW:  Of course he will. 

STEWART:  You think so? 

MADDOW:  I think he‘s a zillionaire.  He‘s going to get chicks. 

STEWART:  You know what I told the guy upstairs?

MADDOW:  What?

STEWART:  I know somebody who had relations with Jude Law.  So if I in Secaucus, New Jersey, know someone, that means this man has had a few relations along the way. 

MADDOW:  Yes, he‘s been dealing the hand that was—playing the hand that was dealt him by God, but he plays it a lot. 

STEWART:  You‘ve got to work with what the good lord gave you. 

MADDOW:  Yes.

STEWART:  Still to come, Mr. Max Kellerman, a.k.a “The Outsider,” joins us so we can get a sneak peek into the way his brain computes the day‘s news and events.  Max, are you ready for the workout?

MAX KELLERMAN, ESPN:  No, not really, but these are juicy topics. 

STEWART:  Ahead, suspect nearly mowed down by police moments after he was caught.  The details from California.  Next.

Plus, he bought toys to distract the kids while he killed their parents.  Those kind of details revealed at the sentencing for the BTK serial killer.  We‘ll check in with MSNBC‘s own Rita Cosby, who will be live and direct from Kansas when THE SITUATION returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Still to come, a former child actor faces murder charges in California. 

Plus, why chubby, hairy men are now the hot items with the ladies. 

Want to stay tuned for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEWART:  And welcome back to THE SITUATION.  Time for tales of wrongdoing and justice served.  It‘s THE SITUATION “Crime Blotter,” our nightly summary of who done it and who caught them. 

First up on the blotter, car chase, California police, and videotape, you know the drill.  Except in this case, something went spectacularly wrong.  Earlier today, L.A. police chased an alleged car thief.  The driver lost control, stopped.  At one point, he tried to get out of the car.  And that is when the pursuing police cruiser nearly ran him over. 

Let‘s wait a minute.  This fellow is going to exit the car.  There you go.  That suspect was taken away on a stretcher. 

Another case of when child actors attack, a former Power Ranger is charged with murder.  In California, Skylar DeLeon and his wife believed to have tied a wealthy couple to a boat anchor and thrown the husband and wife overboard.  Police think the murder was part of a plot to steal the luxury yacht back in November.  An alleged accomplice has confessed. 

And now to Indonesia, where 19 people convicted of terrorist attack will get out of jail early.  All were involved in the 2002 Bali nightclub bombings that killed more than 200 people. 

The government cut their sentences by several months as part of Indonesia‘s independence celebrations.  Even the spiritual head of terror group Jama Islamiya (ph) had four and a half months slashed from his prison term. 

But the biggest crime story of the day and maybe the year, is the capture, confession and today, the sentencing hearing for the BTK killer.  Prosecutors laid out chilling details of 10 murders committed by Dennis Rader between 1974 and 1991 in the Wichita area. 

And MSNBC‘s Rita Cosby is covering the story, live at the courthouse. 

She joins us to give us her reporter‘s notebook. 

Rita, thank you so much for taking the time today. 

RITA COSBY, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT:  You‘re welcome. 

STEWART:  A nuts and bolts question for you, for folks who‘ve been working all day and really haven‘t been up on this case.  What was the purpose of today‘s hearing, and what was the business of the day?

COSBY:  The business of the day was just incredibly graphic testimony, Alison.  We saw some pictures that I have never seen.  I‘ve been covering crime for a long time, been a reporter for about 18 years, and some of these pictures were stunning, to see women bound, to see just some of the ropes that he used to bind the women, just to see how he tortured these people time and time again. 

And Dennis Rader, as we‘re seeing pictures of here, sat there stoic in the courtroom.  And I think that that was what was so chilling.  You would have thought he was just waiting in line at the DMV, just thought that it was another day in the park as we‘re looking at this very powerful testimony.

And the reason it was presented, also, Alison, the prosecutor felt it was critical because tomorrow—tomorrow, or maybe even Friday, depends, but it could be as early as tomorrow, he could actually get his sentence handed down. 

He‘s confessed to these crimes.  But prosecutors want to show how gruesome, how grisly, how he tortured these people, so this man, he‘s not eligible for the death penalty, but he could get life in prison.  And they want to make sure that he never sees the light of day because of what he did to these people—Alison. 

STEWART:  Something that was so interesting on your show earlier tonight was you showed the juxtaposition of the grotesqueness of his murders versus the very normal life he lived, the average home he lived in.  Describe his house.  I know you visited it earlier. 

COSBY:  Yes, it was incredible, Alison, and I‘ve been covering this case for a while.  To go out to his house today, ordinary neighborhood, nice neighbors.  You know, well manicured lawn.  And if you drive up, you know, there‘s basically three bedrooms in the house.  There‘s one bathroom, very crammed quarters. 

One of the other things that struck me is how nobody in the house knew.  Remember, he was married for over 30 years, had two kids.  They lived in this house with him.  His wife lived with him for at least, you know, the last bulk of these last few decades in this tiny little quarters.  And yet, she never suspected she was married to BTK, and they just have one single bathroom. 

We also went to the back shed.  There‘s a little shed behind his house, and that‘s where authorities found some Jewelry, some photos, some other things.  It was very chilling to go in there.  It‘s about 50 yards or so from his house, and to see how close it was from his home, and to know what was kept, some of the trinkets from the killings, were just kept in his back yard and nobody knew about it. 

STEWART:  And something that was also so interesting is you spoke to one of his life-long friends, a man who has known him for 30 years.  Let‘s take a little bit of a listen to that part of that conversation. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COSBY:  When you saw his chilling confession in court, what went through your mind?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  That that was not the Dennis Rader that I had known for 30 years.  He sounded cold; he sounded calculating.  He didn‘t sound like the Dennis Rader that I knew.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART:  That gentleman really had no idea. 

COSBY:  Had no idea.  And this guy was the president.  He was the former president of the church.  In 2004, Dennis Rader was the vice president of the church, and then took over for him and became the president this year. 

Dennis Rader was incredible, but all the people that I talked to here, Alison, that knew this guy, Dennis Rader truly lived two lives.  You sort of always hear this, but you hear from a lot of experts, who said there was sort of this twilight period.  This guy had no twilight period.  He literally saw black or white. 

On one hand, he was president of the church, loving husband, great father by all accounts.  And then on the other hand, this horrible, sadistic serial killer at other parts of the day.  Nobody had any clue that he was weaving between these two horrible worlds. 

STEWART:  There was no 20-20 hindsight?  Nobody said, well, there was that one time he mentioned X, Y, or Z?

COSBY:  There was none of that.  The only thing that we‘ve heard, and the experience that I‘ve heard in the last few months, a couple of the neighbors said, “He got testy with me,” that he was sometimes derogatory towards women. 

Ironically, the person who bought his house, because they put it up for sale, is a woman, a female business owner, and I spoke with her.  We‘re going to show that tomorrow on the show at 9 p.m.  

But some of the neighbors said he was a little testy, a little sort of anal, to use the word, sort of peculiar on things.  But overall, they said he was a really good guy.  And I think that‘s what makes this case so chilling. 

Tomorrow, Alison, we will hear from the victims.  The families finally have their chance to speak, to look this man in the eye and say what he did to their family, to their loved ones.  And also, Dennis Rader himself may speak, as well, so we may hear from him again one more time. 

STEWART:  Rita Cosby, we thank you so much for sharing and reporting with us here on THE SITUATION. 

COSBY:  Thank you, Alison. 

STEWART:  We appreciate it. 

Coming up on THE SITUATION, Nike breaks new ground by selling thunder thighs.  Is selling the achievable body better business than marketing perfection?  Max Kellerman thinks he knows. 

Plus, a new poll suggests that body hair and love handles on men are A-OK with the ladies, so take off your T-shirts, fellows, quit sucking in your gut and stick around for the details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEWART:  Time to welcome “The Outsider”, a man whose only phobias are mayonnaise and news of the world, yet he enters the MSNBC fray nightly to play devil‘s advocate to paid professionals on a series of actual news stories.  Fresh from his nightly session of self-Googling, here is ESPN Radio host and HBO Boxing host Max Kellerman.

Did you find anything out interesting about yourself?

KELLERMAN:  I would love to say that any of that wasn‘t true, but everything you said just then was true.  And the answer is no, somehow the Google hits are going down.  They‘re like eliminating me from Google somehow. 

STEWART:  You just go outside and do something, work on that. 

KELLERMAN:  Got you.

STEWART:  First up, Pope Benedict has asked the U.S. government for diplomatic immunity from being deposed by an American lawyer in a church abuse case.  The suit contends that before becoming pope, Cardinal John Ratzinger conspired to cover up the abuse of three boys by a seminary student that happened in Texas in the mid-1990‘s. 

Attorney Daniel Shea held a press conference in Rome to call on President Bush to deny the pontiff immunity. 

Now, as someone who believes in rules, and I do. 

KELLERMAN:  Yes. 

STEWART:  He is the head of state.  He should be granted immunity, as the head of the city state of the Vatican.  Thems be the rules. 

KELLERMAN:  All right.  Now I have to take devil‘s advocate position. 

In this case, I actually believe the devil‘s advocate position. 

If you‘re looking at it as domestic issue, there‘s a separation of church and state in this country, and a lot of people just think that means the church can‘t tyrannize the state.  It goes vice versa, also, and churches are tax exempt. 

I‘m not sure it should be.  I don‘t think that the Catholic Church should be able to say, a boy may or may not have been molested.  We‘re going to handle it internally.  Because the laws of the state should supersede the laws of the church domestically. 

BRYANT:  So you‘re not buying this pontifical secret that I keep talking about. 

KELLERMAN:  No, no.  Not at all. 

Now internationally, if you‘re talking about international law, the pope as head of state, I have a problem with the Vatican being considered a foreign state. 

If you mean to tell me—because it almost puts American Catholics in a position where they‘re committing treason by being Catholic.  You mean to tell me that the head of a foreign state dictates the behavior of tens of millions of Americans?  I have a problem with that.  I don‘t have a problem with the head of a religion dictating, because there‘s separation there. 

STEWART:  Isn‘t there any part that says it‘s the pope?  Can‘t do that to the pope?

KELLERMAN:  No, I think in fact one of the great things about this country, and it should be one of the great things about the world is, you know what, heads of state can be impeached, Bill Clinton...

STEWART:  You want to impeach the pope?  Is that—you think you should be able to?

KELLERMAN:  The point is that, in the eyes of the law, we‘re all the same, and I think that should extend internationally as well, yes. 

STEWART:  Elliott Stein and his girlfriend had some sushi, a drink at the Park Hills Waterfront Grill at Jersey shore, happened in early July.  So when the check came, the Stein party of two was identified, literally written on the bill, as “Jew couple.” 

As shocked as he was, Stein was further stunned when his credit card statement identified the charge the same way weeks later.  The restaurant‘s manager says the identification wasn‘t meant to be offensive in any way, but New Jersey attorney general civil rights division is investigating. 

So, Max, you had a bar mitzvah.  Am I right?

KELLERMAN:  I did a secular bar mitzvah. 

BRYANT:  You speak Yiddish.

KELLERMAN: (speaking Yiddish) 

BRYANT:  OK, I hope you didn‘t say something bad. 

KELLERMAN:  No, I said, “I‘m a Yiddish speaker.”

BRYANT:  OK.  Good.  So it‘s fair to ask you.

KELLERMAN:  Yes.

BRYANT:  Are you offended by this?

KELLERMAN:  I take racism very seriously, and discrimination toward genders and sexual preferences and ethnicities seriously.  However, racism is scary when it‘s coming from someone in a position of power.  When it‘s coming from your waiter, it just doesn‘t offend me the same way. 

Also, Jew instead of Jewish, I think that‘s the problem. 

BRYANT:  That‘s kind of the issue, right?

KELLERMAN:  I don‘t like when people say, “Hey, you know what about blacks?”  I would rather hear black people.  I don‘t like, “Hey, Jew.”  I‘d rather hear “Jewish.” 

But I‘ve worked in a restaurant.  You write shorthand.  If there‘s something that screams Jewish about the guy—if he‘s wearing a yarmulke, if he seems exceptionally well read, I don‘t know, if there‘s something about him that seems—that identifies him, you might just write, just as shorthand. 

And it was never—I don‘t think it was ever meant to get back to the couple.  And even if it was meant as sort of a derogatory joke, I visited with Muhammad Ali on his farm a couple of years ago.  Everybody knows Muhammad Ali‘s significance as a civil rights figure.  What did we do all day?  He loves telling and hearing racist jokes.  It doesn‘t mean he‘s a bad guy. 

BRYANT:  Well, yes, it does.  If the story, you read it some other time, and it was a very flamboyant, gay couple.

KELLERMAN:  Yes.

BRYANT:  You saw on the bottom of the check that they had written “sissy boys” or “queer”...

KELLERMAN:  Yes.  Yes.

BRYANT:  ... would you be offended?

KELLERMAN:  You know, that‘s a very interesting question.  I‘m not gay, so I don‘t feel that I have the moral high ground.  Maybe because I am Jewish and I am personally not offended, I feel that I‘m allowed to say it‘s not offensive.  I don‘t know.  Ask a gay person. 

BRYANT:  Should the couple—what should the couple do?

KELLERMAN:  I don‘t find it offensive enough to make a big deal out of. 

BRYANT:  All right.  You heard it, Max said don‘t make a big deal out of it. 

By now, the soap buying public has seen Dove‘s ad of real beauty, featuring women of average size, instead of these rail-thin model types.  This week, Nike unveils a print and online campaign that goes a little step further.  The ads feature previously unfashionable body types, including a spot that announces, quote, “I have a big butt.”  Another model who says, “I have thunder thighs.” 

What‘s the better advertiser move?  Is it smart to show achievable bodies, or is it smart to show perfect bodies, if you‘re trying to sell something?

KELLERMAN:  Well, I don‘t think that they‘re different, necessarily.  First of all, I have a big butt and thunder thighs, I wish she‘d say that again.  I like even hearing that.  Those are not thunder thighs, by the way, guys, are those thunder thighs that we just saw?  Let me just hear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  No. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  No.

KELLERMAN:  You hear that?  Those are not thunder thighs.  They are shapely.  That‘s all it is.  And the fact that anorexia essentially is foisted upon the American buying public because this is what the fashion industry dictates is attractive, I have a problem with that, not with showing actually attractive body parts on women. 

STEWART:  Well, what if you were a guy and the ad was for something that said, “Hey, check out these guns,” and they were like chicken arms, you know, would that make you buy them?  You know, because you know you don‘t have nice guns (ph)?

KELLERMAN:  I would feel better about myself, I‘ll tell you that much. 

STEWART:  But also, I mean, what about the idea that, let‘s talk about body types, let‘s show a woman with gray hair, someone with extreme wrinkles, trying to sell something, trying to sell you a fashionable outfit. 

KELLERMAN:  See, my problem is, there‘s a false distinction being made here between looking normal, quote, unquote, and then on the other hand, being sexy.  I think if that‘s what normal is that is sexy.  The idea that super models are somehow—I find most super models to be unattractive, at least when you see them in life, when they‘re not air brushed. 

They‘re far too thin, usually kind of awkwardly tall and not all that attractive.  Striking looking, but not beautiful, usually. 

STEWART:  So Max is into the real thing. 

KELLERMAN:  I‘m into the real thing.  That‘s right.

STEWART:  Max Kellerman, thank you very much. 

KELLERMAN:  Thank you, Alison.

STEWART:  We‘ll see you tomorrow.  Everyone else, please stick around, because there‘s a lot more ahead on THE SITUATION. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PIERCE BROSNAN, ACTOR:  My friends cal me James Bond. 

STEWART (voice-over):  Not anymore, slicky-boy.  Brosnan, Pierce Brosnan, you‘re fired. 

BROSNAN:  Point taken.

STEWART:  Plus, why some women are just wild about hairy. Norway flips its troops the bird.

BROSNAN:  I know the feeling.

STEWART:  Dog lovers get physical.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Stretch out their arms.

STEWART:  And why Ugly Sam has a bone to pick with viewers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  We would really like to see side-by-side pictures of...

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  How‘s that feeling?

CROWLEY (voice-over):  Dog lovers get physical.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Stretch out their arms.

CROWLEY:  And, why ugly Sam has a bone to pick with viewers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:   We would really like to see side-by-side pictures of both the ugliest dog and Max together.

CROWLEY:  It‘s all ahead on “The Situation.”

PIERCE BROSNAN:  Sheer enjoyment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEWART:  At the fitness section at the airport magazine rack suggests men can be as body conscious as women but fellows some good news for those that prefer perogies to push ups.  According to a new Playgirl magazine poll, you don‘t have to be (INAUDIBLE) to have sex appeal.  Just look at the new cover of Playgirl.  We‘ll tell you all about that.

And joining me now Jill Sieracki, editor-in-chief of Playgirl, with the rest of the forgiving results, OK, so Jill, you guys had this poll.

JILL SIERACKI, PLAYGIRL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF:  Yes.  Us gals.

STEWART:  Gals, as you say.

SIERACKI:  (INAUDIBLE).

STEWART:  Look at Tucker, who knew?  And you said he was in Maine with his four kids.  He was posing for your magazine.  You decided to do a poll about what women find sexy.  How many women did you poll?

SIERACKI:  We have 2,000 responses that logged onto our website at playgirl.com and they voted on what kind of guys really turn their heads and we were really surprised but very happy with the results.

STEWART:  Very fine, it‘s been the big talk of the office today. 

Forty-two percent said they thought love handles were kind of sexy.

SIERACKI:  Absolutely.  You need a little something to pinch onto.  There‘s nothing wrong with that.  You know all us girls have been saying with those Nike ads and the Dove ads that, you know, there‘s a little meat on our bones and men love it.  We should love their extra little meat too.

STEWART:  It explained a whole lot that whole like King of Queens, fat guy with the hot girlfriend sitcom.

SIERACKI:  Right.

STEWART:  It all makes sense to me now.

SIERACKI:  Absolutely.  Guys are guys and, you know, us gals have been loving those boys next door for a long, long time and Playgirl is more than happy to let them have their moment in the spotlight.

STEWART:  It looked like metrosexuals just got bounced.  Was that just a fad?

SIERACKI:  Well, as you know as a girl, our hair products are way too expensive to be sharing with any boy and no girl wants to date a man who‘s prettier than her.

STEWART:  My rule is you don‘t date a guy who weighs less than you do.

SIERACKI:  Oh, absolutely.

STEWART:  That‘s top ten.  You also said that 47 percent of women approved of chest hair.

SIERACKI:  Oh, yes, absolutely.  That‘s a big thing with us is that when we shoot a model we‘re very specific.  Please don‘t shave your chest.  Now, if you look like you‘re wearing a sweater and you‘re at the beach you might want to try...

STEWART:  Like these fellows.

SIERACKI:  Like these guys.

STEWART:  Some lovely B-roll we got rocking on “The Situation.” 

SIERACKI:  That guy may need a bit of manscaping (ph) but a little bit of chest hair isn‘t a bad thing.

STEWART:  Oh, wait, you have to define manscaping for me.

SIERACKI:  Well, you know, when you take it down an inch or two.

STEWART:  All right, so in this poll did you discuss what isn‘t sexy because the conventional wisdom is that a whole lot of body hair isn‘t sexy or maybe a guy has got 15 extra pounds, you know, maybe not so much?

SIERACKI:  Well, we never want to say anything is not sexy because, you know, your ideal man is totally different than my ideal man.  It‘s totally different than half of the girls that read our magazine.  So, you know, if she loves her big tubby guy, then who are we to say that‘s wrong?

STEWART:  All right.  One of the things that was in the survey, which some of the fellows in the office said, “OK, now I‘m not believing this survey,” is that four percent said the wallets don‘t matter.

SIERACKI:  Yes.

STEWART:  How much a guy makes does not matter at all.

SIERACKI:  Right.  Well, here‘s...

STEWART:  You heard the camera guy behind me.

SIERACKI:  Yes, I hear.

STEWART:  Do you hear him?

SIERACKI:  I hear your camera guy.  Look here‘s the thing, you know, I was brought up and, you know, I‘m definitely a daddy‘s girl, who taught me, you know, you balance your checkbook and you do your own 401K.  Us women have careers now and we do not need a man sitting there taking care of us.  We are just fine all by ourselves.  It‘s like we want a man in our life these days.  We don‘t need one.

STEWART:  But it also said that women want to be taken care of somewhat, which is sort of counterintuitive.

SIERACKI:  Yes.

STEWART:  To the...

SIERACKI:  Somebody‘s got to squash the bugs.

STEWART:  That‘s important.  You‘re right.

SIERACKI:  Exactly.  I will do—I will do the electric bill.  I will do all that but if I see a cockroach forget it.  That‘s it.  I‘m out of there.

STEWART:  And what is the 73 percent want a guy who is rough around the edges?  What does rough around the edges mean exactly?

SIERACKI:  Well, it‘s like the denim shirt with the shirt un-tucked or the denim jeans with the shirt un-tucked is a little more sexy than the buttoned up suit where he looks like he can‘t breathe.  You want a guy who‘s going to be a little bit fun.  You know you want a sassy date, you know, bowling, a movie, hiking, a good time, not necessarily dinner at the club, you know.

STEWART:  What about bow ties?

SIERACKI:  Well, we can make exceptions for certain guys.

STEWART:  Oh, she‘s a diplomat.  Another issue that came up as we were all noodling around on the story idea was there is a perception that Playgirl is often read by gay men.

SIERACKI:  Well, we like to say it is written for women but, you know, anyone who can appreciate a really good-looking guy is more than welcome in the club.

STEWART:  All right, so are we going to see some more chubby full-figured guys or a little furry in your magazine, the guys you want to go up and give them a big hug?  Is that going to happen?

SIERACKI:  We are going to see all types of guys in Playgirl and that‘s a big thing with our survey is that we‘re asking all these women if this is your guy send in his photo.  Who knows?  He could be the next Playgirl centerfold.

STEWART:  Where can they send it?

SIERACKI:  They can send it through our website at playgirl.com and it has our mailing address as well, so send it in.  He could be in Playgirl or on Playgirl TV.  You never know.

STEWART:  You do never know.  Jill Sieracki, thank you so much for joining us from Playgirl magazine.

SIERACKI:  Thank you so much.

STEWART:  I agree with your story by the way.

Still ahead, one voice mailer is concerned about the new law in Illinois that sets a daytime curfew for teenagers.  Hear her sound off when we come back.

Also, we showed you the ugliest dog in the world earlier this week. 

Now get ready for the most relaxed and centered canine you‘ve ever seen. 

It‘s doggy Doga (ph) and it‘s only on the “Cutting Room Floor.”

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEWART:  Welcome back.

Time to get tomorrow‘s news right now, for that we turn to our award-winning producer Willie Geist.

GEIST:  Award-winning?STEWART:  What did you win?

GEIST:  Nothing.  I don‘t know who put that in there, never have in my life.

STEWART:  No Little League trophy, nothing?

GEIST:  Actually I was an all-star one year, an alternative I think it was.

STEWART:  You‘re an all-star in my eyes.

GEIST:  Yes.  I want to thank first of all, Jill.  She renewed my subscription on the way out the door, what a sweetheart.  She threw in the year end double issue, the whole, the whole ball of wax.

STEWART:  Exactly.

GEIST:  So, thanks to her.  Actually, I found that interview a little discouraging because I‘m not particularly overweight and I‘m virtually hairless so if things are going the other direction...

STEWART:  Is that natural?

GEIST: ...I think I‘m in trouble.  I don‘t think it is actually.  I should be concerned.

STEWART:  Perhaps.

GEIST:  Let‘s get to the news of tomorrow.

STEWART:  Let‘s.  More than 3,000 documents from Supreme Court justice nominee John Roberts‘ past will be released by the National Archives tomorrow.  The documents from Roberts‘ time as an associate counsel to President Reagan covering topics including abortion, school prayer, the war powers of the president.  Senate confirmation hearings for Roberts are scheduled to begin September 6th.

GEIST:  That‘s right.  I think the American Bar Association gave their full endorsement today.  But the greatest thing that came out yesterday about Roberts, which to me is reason enough to confirm him, he told Ronald Reagan to steer clear of Michael Jackson in the ‘80s when he was working for him.

STEWART:  Wise move.

GEIST:  Jackson wanted some letter of endorsement about what a great guy he was.  Roberts said “Under no circumstances do you want to be associated with this guy,” clairvoyant I think.

STEWART:  I think you‘re right.

GEIST:  Confirm him at once.

STEWART:  At once. 

I‘m not sure the whole world will be talking about this tomorrow but Evan Longoria was injured on the set of “Desperate Housewives” today.  Longoria was shooting an episode for the new season of the hit show when a light pole fell and hit her on the head.  She was taken to a local hospital for treatment.  If that‘s their story and they‘re sticking to it, Willie, I say it‘s Terry Hatcher giving her one (INAUDIBLE).

Geist:  Yes, I think so.

STEWART:  One of these.

GEIST:  A little cat fight on Wisteria Lane.

STEWART:  Maybe.

GEIST:  I don‘t know where you come down on this but when I rank, which I come from a sports background you got to rank everything, here‘s where I come down on “Desperate Housewives.”  Terry Hatcher, one; Eva Longoria, two; there could be a little back and forth there. 

STEWART:  Yes.

GEIST:  Then the red-haired girl from “Melrose Place,” number three.

STEWART:  Marcia Cross.

GEIST:  Yes.  And, number four, the blond hair who‘s always disheveled (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSSTALK)

GEIST:  I love her as an actress.

STEWART:  So is that the order you‘d want them hit by a light pole?

GEIST:  No, no, no, no, no.  No.  You‘re speaking to a man so when I say it‘s a ranking I think you know what I mean.

STEWART:  I do.

GEIST:  The best looking and nicest gal.

STEWART:  From a hairless not overweight man. 

We‘ll be looking for a new James Bond tomorrow.  Pierce Brosnan‘s run ended unceremoniously when he received a phone call informing him that he was being relieved of his role as 007.  Brosnan played Bond in four films beginning with 1995‘s “Golden Eye.”  He tells Entertainment Weekly he never really felt comfortable as Bond because “You have these stupid one-liners, which I loathe.”

GEIST:  Well, let‘s look ahead to tomorrow, who do you think would be a good James Bond?

STEWART:  Before today I would have said Jude Law.

GEIST:  Why not today, Alison?

STEWART:  Well, Bon has...

GEIST:  Is he deficient in some way?

STEWART:  He has certain statues to live up to.  Those Bond girls they‘d be very sad.

GEIST:  Oh, poor buy.  I feel bad for him now.  I‘m going to throw out thee and this name was brought up years ago, Puffy, make him James Bond.

STEWART:  Excuse me, Diddy.

GEIST:  Excuse me, Diddy.  He‘s the real life James Bond.  He actually lives that lifestyle.  Give him a gun, some acting lessons, see what happens.

STEWART:  You don‘t have to give him a gun.  I don‘t think you have to give him a gun, perhaps, although he was acquitted we should say.

GEIST:  He brings his own, his own props to the set.

STEWART:  Willie Geist news of tomorrow heard it today.

GEIST:  See you later.

STEWART:  I‘ll see you in a little bit.

Still to come, it‘s the news you all been waiting for.  Is Britney having a boy or a girl?  The answer can be found, as always, on the “Cutting Room Floor” with Willie Geist.  Stay tuned for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEWART:  Hello to you too.  Welcome back.  Sitting in tonight for Shari Lewis and Lamb Chop, I‘m Alison Stewart.  Now that means I can call Tucker Lamb Chop without HR visiting me.

Time now for our voice mail segment where we encourage you to share your thoughts about a story in the news, the show itself or even Tucker, if you please so let‘s take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBBIE, PENTWATTER, MICHIGAN:  Hi, my name is Debbie.  I‘m from Pentwater, Michigan and I‘m calling about the story tonight about the daytime curfew.  The comment made by Monica was very insulting that she said what about the parents they have only one job?  Most families nowadays both parents have to work one or two jobs a piece full time.  We drop our kids off at school or make sure they get on the bus.  From there on in it‘s up to the schools to keep track of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART:  Good point she make about parents having so much to do but my question is kids who aren‘t allowed in public places between 9:30 and 2:30 I say you‘re just driving them into basement dens where they‘re doing who knows what—hey, our next caller.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH, BOCA RATON, FLORIDA:  Hey, this is Josh from Boca Raton, Florida.  I was curious what‘s up with Christopher Walken running for president in 2008, walken2008.com, is that true?  Is he really going to run for president?  That‘s awesome.  Thanks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART:  Apparently it is not true according to Christopher Walken‘s people but he does have three movies coming out in the next year.  I‘ll figure this out eventually.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINT, EL PASO, TEXAS:  My name is Clint and I‘m calling from El Paso, Texas regarding the Iraq war veteran who is being told that he doesn‘t qualify as a Texas resident to get the reduced college tuition.  I want this man to know that I will personally pick him up in my truck and we‘ll drive right to Crawford, Texas to tell the president how ridiculous this is.  It‘s totally unacceptable.  This man is a Texas resident like I am.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART:  Well, Clint, well I think he appreciates your offer.  I think he might appreciate some help with the tuition  just a little bit more—next one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILLY, PARTS UNKNOWN:  Hey, this is Billy.  I want to talk about the producer just insulted Elvis.  Elvis was the king, all right.  He‘s alive and he‘s waiting for everybody to welcome him back on stage.  You tell your producer to shake his hips like Elvis did and then we‘ll see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART:  OK, first of all, my dear friend if you‘ve got proof that Elvis is alive you need to e-mail us at “The Situation” immediately.  And, as you said, Willie should learn how to shake his hips like Elvis.  Clearly, you have never seen him at quesadilla night in the MSNBC commissary.  It‘s something to behold.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA, PLYMOUTH, MICHIGAN:  This is Lisa.  I‘m in Plymouth, Michigan and my daughter found the ugliest dog episode last night very upsetting and she pointed out to me how would Max feel if his mom entered him in a contest?  So, we would really like to see side-by-side pictures of both the ugliest dog and Max together.  Thanks a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART:  Oh, Lisa, you don‘t have to thank us.  Your wish is our command.  Kind of got the same attitude, maybe, I don‘t know.  Get the same agent.  They could be big.  Oh, Max.  That dog is really ugly.  There‘s just no way around that one.

Let us know what you‘re thinking.  Call 1-877-TCARLSON.  That‘s 877-822-7576, love to hear what you have to say tomorrow night on “The Situation.”

But still ahead tonight on “The Situation,” a Scandinavian nation flexes its military muscle for all the world to see, the penguin and she waddles onto the “Cutting Room Floor” next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

STEWART:  It‘s time to sweep up the “Cutting Room Floor.”  As always our producer Willie Geist has collected the very best of the stories that didn‘t quite make the cut tonight and he‘ll bring them to us right now, hello.

GEIST:  Hello, Alison.

STEWART:  Hello again.

GEIST:  I feel terrible that I offended the man who thinks Elvis is still alive.  I‘m sorry.  But nobody loves Elvis more than I do.  At my house my dad was so Elvis crazy we used to have a party on his birthday, January 8th, every year.

STEWART:  And you know what I know your dad, so that‘s probably true.

GEIST:  It is true trust me.

STEWART:  Hi, Bill Geist.

GEIST:  Do you want to dance on Elvis?  Let‘s tango buddy.  I can hang with you.

STEWART:  All right, hit me, the first one.  We may finally know the answer to the question that has divided our nation for the last eight months.  Is it a boy or a girl?  Sources not that close to Britney Spears say she recently went on an after hours spending spree at a Beverly Hills baby store and she bought $10,000 worth of boy clothes.  Britney and her back up dancing husband Kevin Federline are expecting their first child sometime next month.

GEIST:  Wow.

STEWART:  Not his first child, mind you.

GEIST:  No, certainly not his first.

STEWART:  I think he has multiples.

GEIST:  I think he has a couple but he just wants to get that thing out at this point because once she has the kid she‘s into him for life, so I‘m surprised, I‘m surprised he hasn‘t started inducing labor.  Please, the golden ticket.

STEWART:  Next, (INAUDIBLE) there‘s nothing a dog loves more than a good yoga class.

GEIST:  Sure.

STEWART:  Dog yoga or doga is the latest trend for dog lovers who want to pamper their pets with a massage, structural relaxation.  Doga instructors say their peculiar art helps hyper dogs relax, encourages them to socialize with other dogs.

GEIST:  You know, Alison, I think this is a good litmus test for people.  If you‘re putting your dog in the yoga or the caballa (ph) or the Pilates whatever they are, it‘s time to re-ground yourself.  Go visit the house you grew up in or something.  Just get back to basics.

STEWART:  This is once again a reason why it‘s good to be a dog.

GEIST:  That‘s true and one more note, tomorrow night the Pilates or what is this, yoga instructor.

STEWART:  Doga.

GEIST:  Doga.

STEWART:  Doga.

GEIST:  The instructor will be on this very show.

STEWART:  Really?

GEIST:  And you will be talking to her, yes.

STEWART:  We‘ll be doing the down dog.

GEIST:  Stay tuned for that.

STEWART:  Dog in repose.  Norway sent the world a strong message about its military might today by appointing a new colonel and chief of its army.  His name is Niles Olav (ph).  He happens to be a penguin.

GEIST:  Oh, what do you know?

STEWART:  Niles inspected his troops in Edinburgh, Scotland this morning and he appeared to be satisfied with what he saw gentlemen although he remained stoic throughout.  Niles then shocked the diplomatic world when he announced his plans to invade the people‘s principality of Lichtenstein. 

GEIST:  Oh, unbelievable.  You know, Alison, I will say neutrality has its benefits.  When the last war you fought was on a Viking ship, you can afford to put a penguin in charge.  Nobody is really going to notice right?

STEWART:  But I hear that penguin has his own line of polo shirts.

GEIST:  Yes.

STEWART:  You know?

GEIST:  He‘s a tough cookie.

STEWART:  Oh.  If you lived through the depression you tend not to trust the local banks to look after your money.  Such is the case with the 87-year-old woman who police found over the weekend carrying $60,000 of cash in her purse.

GEIST:  Wow.

STEWART:  And this dramatic reenactment clearly shows the woman was snoozing on a recliner at a Wisconsin furniture store when police approached her.  After they couldn‘t wake her, they went through her purse to look for identification.  That‘s when they found the 60 grand, all in hundred dollar bills.

GEIST:  Wow.  I will just say this, a tip of the cap to “The Situation” players.  That was very well acted.

STEWART:  You know what this is a rough crowd.

GEIST:  They‘re getting better every time out.  We do need to talk to our prop department a little bit.  The costumes were kind of weak.

STEWART:  Do you have time for the last story?

GEIST:  Yes, go.

STEWART:  All right.  A wedding should be the best day of a bride and groom‘s life celebrated with close friends, family and guests for hire.

GEIST:  Sure.

STEWART:  An Indian company called the Best Guest Center is doing a booming business by renting out wedding guests.  The service caters to families who worry that their wedding numbers are going to turn out a little lower than expected.  The hired guests are briefed on the history of the bride and groom, so no one knows they‘re standing in.

GEIST:  The actual real life wedding crashers, that‘s cool.  Now that I think about it there were a lot of people at my wedding and I had no idea who they were.  I thought they were my parents‘ work associates but maybe they were hired guns.  This is a little fishy.

STEWART:  The only thing sadder than this story is people who don‘t take the pictures out of the frames and say they‘re their friends.  It‘s just so bad. 

OK, that‘s “The Situation” tonight.  Thanks for watching.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

END   

Content and programming copyright 2005 NBC.  ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED.  Transcription Copyright 2005 Voxant, Inc.  ALL RIGHTS  RESERVED. No license is granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not reproduce or redistribute the material except for user‘s personal or internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may infringe upon NBC and Voxant, Inc.‘s copyright or other proprietary rights or interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of litigation.

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