Guest: Dorree Lynn, Jossy Mansur, Benvinda De Sousa, Jim Solomans, Cyril Wecht, Rod Wheeler, John Padden, George Malim, Brian Harpole, Tom Morton, Bob Sansevere RITA COSBY, HOST: Good evening, everybody. Tonight, a shocking case, a pregnant mother is cut and beaten with a baseball bat, apparently so her attacker could steal her baby. Find out what drove one woman to do this horrible crime.
And at this hour, a massive manhunt is on for a fugitive accused of shooting a cop. That cop's whole family is in the force, and they want your help to catch the man deemed as armed and dangerous.
And pyro panic. Rocker Tommy Lee is hurt in a fiery stunt. We've got the exclusive pictures tonight.
But first, we want to start with a truly awful crime right out of Pennsylvania. Tonight, police say that this woman that you see here, Peggy Jo Conner, a mother of three, tried to kill her pregnant neighbor and steal her unborn child. They say the pregnant woman, Valerie Oskin, would have died except for a 17-year-old boy who happened to stumble upon the gruesome crime scene.
In just a few minutes, we're going to talk live to the man in charge of this troubling investigation. But first, NBC reporter Allen Jennings (ph) has the very latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THOMAS WILKS, SUSPECT'S BOYFRIEND: No, that's totally a lie. I'll tell everybody right now, that's a lie.
ALLEN JENNINGS, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tom Wilks lives with the suspect, 38-year-old Peggy Conner of Manor (ph) Township. State troopers have spent hours removing evidence from the trailer home the couple shares here on Franklin Avenue. Wilks claims Peggy Conner and their neighbor, victim Valerie Oskin, were close friends.
WILKS: They was real good. They had a close friendship.
JENNINGS: But troopers say Conner tortured and beat her friend with a baseball bat at Oskin's trailer, then used this vehicle to drive her to a remote dirt road and attempted to cut Oskin's baby from her womb.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears from our investigation that this was something that was well thought out.
JENNINGS: Dressy (ph) said Valerie Oskin suffered severe head injuries and a large laceration over an existing prior C-section baby delivery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had approximately a 6 to 8-inch cut in the abdomen area.
JENNINGS: Wilks said he's in shock, calling Peggy Conner a loving mother of her own three children.
WILKS: Yes, sir, I am. They won't let me talk to her. They won't let me see her. Once I talk to her, I'll know what's going on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: And that was Allen Jennings reporting.
And joining me now live with the latest on this investigation is Armstrong County district attorney Scott Andreassi. Mr. Andreassi, just describe for us—this was a particularly brutal crime, right?
SCOTT ANDREASSI, ARMSTRONG CO., PA, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It really was, from the very beginning until the police arrived on the scene.
COSBY: Yes, walk us through exactly what this woman did to this other woman, what she's accused of.
ANDREASSI: Based the investigation, what we've pieced together is that sometime yesterday morning, the attacker, Ms. Conner, hit Ms.—hit her victim over the head with a baseball bat while her back was turned to the attacker. At some time thereafter, she transported her victim to a secluded area, where she apparently attempted to remove Ms. Oskin's fetus from her abdomen, cutting her in about a 6 to 8-inch gash in her abdomen. She was happened upon by a 17-year-old, who was riding his 4-wheeler. Had that young man not appeared on the scene, it's quite likely the victim would have bled to death.
COSBY: You bet. What is the victim—what did she look like when this 17-year-old just happened to stumble upon her? It's a pretty remote area, too, right?
ANDREASSI: It's a very remote area. And when we went back to the scene of the initial attack, there was a great deal of blood from the initial attack, and Ms. Oskin was very brutally beaten again at the secluded area. And clearly, when the 17-year-old came upon the scene, what he saw was a—an individual who had been beaten severely and was very bloody.
COSBY: Now, I'm confused a little bit as to whether this woman is accused of attacking this other woman who was pregnant. I want to show a little comment. This is from her boyfriend, her long-time boyfriend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILKS: She is pregnant. I got a sonogram saying she is pregnant. I've felt the baby kick numerous of times. I've felt the baby kick in her stomach.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Mr. Andreassi, was she pregnant?
ANDREASSI: No. Tests at the hospital this afternoon indicated she was not pregnant. There was, in fact, a sonogram found in her trailer. However, we've established that was not a baby that belonged to her.
COSBY: So she did this whole big ruse to her boyfriend, pretending that she was pregnant. She also is a mother of three, isn't that correct?
ANDREASSI: That's correct, ranging in age from 9 to 15.
COSBY: Tell us about the relationship. What I think is so troubling
· I mean, this is not even just a stranger. These two women knew each other, right?
ANDREASSI: They were neighbors, in fact, lived just a few feet apart in the same trailer park.
COSBY: And were they friends?
ANDREASSI: By all accounts, they appeared to be friends, yes. And I think that's one of the items that the attacker used to her advantage when she attacked her victim.
COSBY: Now, what could this woman, Peggy Jo Conner, get in terms of prison time, if she's found guilty? What's she facing?
ANDREASSI: Well, what we're looking at right now is criminal attempt first degree murder because we believe she planned this event out, based on the evidence we found and the statements she's provided. So she would face the same penalties an individual would face who actually committed first degree murder.
COSBY: And real quick, why do you think she planned it out?
ANDREASSI: She planned it out because she wanted to carry through with her plan, which was to get Valerie's baby.
COSBY: And it sounds like she was preparing this, pretending that she was pregnant for a while.
ANDREASSI: She clearly was.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREASSI: Yes, when we executed the search warrant on her residence, it was apparent she was preparing for the arrival of a child.
COSBY: Mr. Andreassi, what a horrible story. Thank you very much for being with us. Good luck with your investigation.
So what would drive a woman to kill in order to steal a baby, again, from somebody that she knew, especially when this woman had three children of her own? We're joined now by Dr. Dorree Lynn, a leading psychologist. Dr. Lynn, what would drive a woman to do this?
DR. DORREE LYNN, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Rita, the first place I would look as a professional is into the relationship. And I'm guessing—since none of us really know—but I'm guessing that there was a relationship problem, and that she felt in some way, her relationship was threatened if she wouldn't bring home a baby. And that would the driving, motivating force, the first place that I would look.
COSBY: (INAUDIBLE) crazy. It sounds like she got to know this other woman better and better, sort of eased into it as she knew that the other woman was pregnant, saying, Look, I'm pregnant, too.
I want to show a comment, Dr. Lynn, and have you respond. This is the long-time boyfriend of the woman who is accused of attacking the other woman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILKS: ... close friendship. It was getting closer as the days went by. They was pregnant together. They was helping each other out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: What do you make of that? She was sort of befriending this other woman.
LYNN: Well, that's the way it works, more often than not. She gained her confidence. She gained her friendship. And then she used her to end her—you know, to her own means. So that is not uncommon, Rita, at all.
COSBY: Do these women actually think they're going to get away with these crimes?
LYNN: Yes, they do. They're so off base and so desperate—and it's desperation that drives them—that they actually think, in some way, they will get away with it, sadly so, of course.
COSBY: You know, we were looking at how many cases there were, and I think we found it was four high-profile cases sort of similar to this of attempted fetus thefts. This was in just the past three years.
LYNN: Right.
COSBY: Is it becoming more common? Do you think people are getting copycat ideas?
LYNN: I don't know if they're getting more copycat ideas, but it's certainly getting more public. It's an atrocious crime, as we know, and it is happening, unfortunately, usually not successfully.
COSBY: Dr. Lynn, thank you very much for being with us. We appreciate it.
And now on to Aruba tonight, where there are new developments. A former suspect in Natalee Holloway's disappearance is reportedly thinking about suing the teenager's mom. Steve Croes was arrested early in the investigation. The party boat deejay was released just days after being taken into custody. But now he apparently says Beth Holloway Twitty has damaged his reputation and he might demand that she pay for that. He may be taking her to court.
LIVE AND DIRECT tonight from Miami is Jossy Mansur. He is with the Aruba “Diario” newspaper and has been breaking a lot of angles on this story from the beginning. Jossy, what do we know about Steve Croes thinking of going after Beth Holloway Twitty?
JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, “DIARIO”: Well, we heard that it's been confirmed from people very close to him that he feels that his reputation has been damaged in this case by Natalee's mother, and he has consulted with some legal advisers as to how to proceed with a case against her.
COSBY: Does it sound like he's going to go forward, or does it sound like this is just blustering?
MANSUR: I don't know. That's very hard to say because from a man who just voluntarily went to the police to offer an alibi to save his friends, I mean, you can expect anything, whether he goes through with it or not.
COSBY: Well, you know, Jossy, you hit it on the head because that's the reason that this guy came in. He made up this story to begin with. Is your sense, from what you're talking to—you know a lot of those authorities down there. When I was down there a while back, a few weeks ago, they were strongly suggesting to me, some people on the island, that maybe he knows Joran, maybe he knows Deepak better than he's alleged. Maybe he knows a little more about this case than he's alleged.
MANSUR: Well, I'm convinced he does know the two suspects or three suspects very well, much better than he's admitted so far or anybody has inquired into. Whether he knows more about the case, whether he's more involved in the case or not, I don't know. That—we would have to (INAUDIBLE) the police or the prosecution to find out the real facts on that.
COSBY: You bet. Now, you have some new details, I understand, on at least sort of the status of Joran's family and what his father can and can't do in court.
MANSUR: Yes, ma'am. I understand from talking to “Diario” today that parents, the family of Joran, came back. Remember, they went to Holland with him to settle him in school. Now that's been done, and they've come back to Aruba. They're all in Aruba now. And I understand that the father, Paul Van Der Sloot, cannot enter or set foot into the building where the courts function while his son is a suspect. And he will be a suspect for the next two years.
COSBY: So he is not allowed to come in because of all this. Do you get a sense, Jossy, that there's a stepped-up effort because there's been so much talk of a potential boycott?
MANSUR: Well, perhaps it is, and perhaps it isn't because it's hard to really correlate the two things now, I mean, the possible boycott and what is happening now in the case. The case is going forward. The police are investigating. The prosecution is preparing its case, regardless of what anyone else thinks. It is going forward.
COSBY: Well, that's good to hear. And Jossy, you keep us posted, as always.
And let's get the Holloway family attorney in here, if we could. On
the phone right now, live from Aruba, is Benvinda de Sousa. Vinda, let me
· you I haven't had the pleasure of talking for a bit. But first, let me ask you about Steve Croes. The audacity that his guy, who lied to authorities, he even came out and said that, now he's even thinking of going after Beth?
BENVINDA DE SOUSA, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, that's what I've heard, like Jossy just said. I haven't had any confirmation on that. But if he's thinking of doing that, it is an audacity because he voluntarily provided a so-called alibi for the three suspects. Nobody asked him to, unless it was the three suspects. So it is an audacity on his part.
COSBY: One of the things we've been hearing, Vinda, is that they're sort of requestioning a lot of the characters, even going to far as to talking to, like, a bus driver, almost sort of anybody involved in the case. Are you getting a sense that they're taking things seriously, or is this just all show for us?
DE SOUSA: Rita, you know, they've taken this seriously from the beginning. Contrary to maybe all the reports we hear to the contrary, but this has been taken very seriously from the beginning. And if you'll remember, a while back, I already informed you that they were going to go back to basics and review the whole case. They are interviewing people who were already interviewed, old witnesses and old persons of interest, new witnesses and new persons of interest, as well.
This is something that has been going on, and the investigation never stopped. It was never the case that this was completely closed and nothing was being done. The investigation is ongoing. There are several searches taking place, dives, as well. So what can I tell you? It's ongoing, and it has been taken very seriously and it will be—continue to be taken very seriously.
COSBY: I'll tell you, I've been very impressed with some of the comments—the deputy police chief was on Dan Abrams's show yesterday. He made some very strong comments. I want to show a little clip and get your sense from it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALD DOMPIG, ARUBAN DEPUTY POLICE CHIEF: Once this is verified, and if it's legitimate, the case will turn around (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And Vinda, he's, of course, talking about that interview that Deepak did, one of the potential suspects, also with Dr. Phil. Are you getting a sense there is momentum now, that they—again, if the tapes are verified, they said they're going to bring them all in for questioning.
DE SOUSA: Of course. First of all, let's see if when—whenever these tapes are verified, if they're the real thing, if they're the raw tapes and it is clearly established that Deepak stated what he stated, then of course, they will be brought back in for questioning. That was said from—right from the beginning when—when the Dr. Phil show was aired, that's what the authorities informed me.
COSBY: All right, Vinda. Thank you. We're hearing a lot of things could come down as early as next week. We appreciate it.
And coming up, everybody, news in the death of a Virginia teen who turned up in a shallow grave in the middle of nowhere. And that's not all we have on store tonight. Take a look.
Still ahead: Rocker Tommy Lee hurt in a pyrotechnic nightmare. We've got the exclusive pictures and the witnesses who saw it happen.
And nabbed by nanny-cam. It was supposed to protect kids. But instead, these cameras busted a bunch of burglars walking out with one family's loot.
And he's armed and dangerous, accused of shooting a cop. His family pleads for him to come clean.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFERY FORBES, SR., FATHER OF MANHUNT SUSPECT: I want him to turn himself in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Tonight, could cops find him first? We'll have the latest on the massive manhunt all LIVE AND DIRECT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: Tonight, rocker Tommy Lee hurt in an apparent pyrotechnic accident. We are just getting the exclusive pictures from that accident in. We're putting them together, and we're going to bring them to you in just a few moments.
But first, a developing story. There's an APB out tonight for a suspected man who is accused of shooting an Orlando police officer. Authorities are stepping up the search for Jeffery Forbes, accused of shooting and also wounding a cop after a suspected drug deal on Monday. If you see this man that you're seeing here, do not approach him. He is considered armed and dangerous.
Last night, in an exclusive interview right here on the show, his family made a dramatic plea for the fugitive to turn himself in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORBES: I love my son and I don't believe he did it, but I want him to turn himself in because if he did (INAUDIBLE) you know, he need to turn himself in, either way it go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And joining us now live on the phone is spokesman Jim Solomons from the Orange County, Florida, sheriff's department. Mrs. Solomons, give us some of the latest. I understand you're expanding the search area for this man.
JIM SOLOMONS, ORANGE COUNTY, FL, SHERIFF'S OFFICE: Well, there is an old axiom in this type of a business that a criminal can get away—you know, it's a mile a minute. So as time goes on, he could certainly be further from the area of the—where the event occurred. So we have expanded our area of concern, based on some tips we've received. And again, we're taking all these tips and leads, assigning them to investigators and following up on them.
COSBY: When you say you've gotten tips, anything that could be near a sighting or someone who may be assisting him?
SOLOMONS: Well, that's a possibility because if he got out of town, we believe he had to have some assistance. But again, those are just tips and leads we're receiving, and as we get these tips, they're evaluated by the folks on the task force, the folks from the command post, and each viable tip is passed on to an investigator for a complete follow-up.
COSBY: Now, you say he had to have help to get out of town. Why is that?
SOLOMONS: Well, it's—we have such a tight lid on the area, right -
· you know, immediately after the event or after the shooting, quite a show of force in the area, and from my standpoint, I'm amazed that he was able to get away, so he had to be hidden out for a period of time, and when things scaled down, after the search pretty much—at least the concentrated search ended at about 2:00 AM, he may have had an opportunity to find assistance to get out of the area.
COSBY: You know, I know you saw our show last night. You were on it. We had the father and also the grandmother of the fugitive on. I want to show a little comment from the father, who came on and said, Look, son, please turn yourself in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORBES: The way they talking, they going to shoot first and ask questions later. Being a black man and doing something like this, they're accusing him of doing something like this (INAUDIBLE) you know, he running scared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: What do you make of the claim, Shoot first and ask questions later? And if the fugitive's watching tonight, Mr. Solomons, what do you want to say to him?
SOLOMONS: Well, I'm in total agreement with his family because they,
in a sense, they're victims, too. But you got to understand we're
professionals, and we're not in the business of taking a life. But it is
our obligation to find the suspect, bring the suspect into custody and
question him. I mean, that's the ultimate goal here. So if Mr. Forbes can
· by chance hears this or talks to somebody that hears this broadcast, it would be in his best interest to turn himself in. Again, I want to stress, we're not in the business of hurting people.
COSBY: Let me show also, if we could, a picture of Deputy Adam Pierce because he is, indeed, the victim in this case. He comes from a law enforcement family, right? His dad is in law enforcement. His twin brother is also—there they are—is also in the force. How is everyone holding up? How is Deputy Pierce holding up, and his family?
SOLOMONS: Well, it's a very emotional thing. I happen to know the Pierces very well, and I can tell you, you know, you hear this sort of thing all the time, but these are genuinely great people. The father's a great man. I watched the two kids graduate from the academy. I didn't even know Perry (ph) had sons. He says, Those are my boys, and you could tell he was very proud. And in the five years that the brothers have been on the force, they have been exemplary deputies. They're very good at what they do. They volunteer for the toughest assignments. And that's why they were—you know, they both worked the area where this happened because it is a tough area for us to police.
COSBY: Well, I'm glad Deputy Pierce is again alive tonight. And again, anybody at home, if you have any information, have seen this man, any sightings, be sure to call the numbers that you see there up on the screen as soon as you can. Again, do not approach him. He is armed and dangerous.
Virginia college student Taylor Behl would have turned 18 years old today, but instead, her family and her friends are planning to lay her to rest, with the visitation taking place, I think, right now, and the funeral set for tomorrow. Behl's remains were found last week in rural Virginia after she went missing on Labor Day.
Meantime, investigators are still waiting for the results from her scattered remains to help them figure out how she died. Joining me now is forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht and also former homicide detective Rod Wheeler.
Dr. Wecht, let me start with you. They said that her remains was scattered. What does that say to you, that it was just bones?
DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: That means to me, yes, that these were bones. It reminds me of the Chandra Levy case, in which we had to examine the bones subsequently that had been retrieved from all over that hillside. That definitely indicates, as you and I talked earlier, Rita, a few days ago, that the body had undergone extensive decomposition during that period of about a month. There was a lot of heat, a lot of humidity. You probably have many small animals in that wooded forested area. And without getting too ghoulish, let's just say that there would have been nothing left but bones.
Also, the fact that they were scattered, that tells you that small animals were at play because there's no other way in which the bones are then going to be scattered. The killer did not wait around while the body was decomposing and then—and move the bones to different places.
So this presents a real problem for the medical examiner's office. It's a very good office down there in Virginia, and if they tell you that they haven't come up with the cause of death, you can be sure that the X-rays have been negative, there's no skull fractures, there's no evidence of bullets, there's no evidence of stab wounds, through bones anyway.
And now you've got a real problem. If body was found out in the open, so to speak, and not buried, then who can say definitively—you can think what you want, but how can you establish legally that she just did not wander off under the influence of drugs, that it was not a suicide? So they can't even make a move on a presumptive manner of death, namely homicide.
COSBY: That's a great point. Let me bring in Rod Wheeler. Rod, what do you do? Do you do, like, toxicology reports? Is there anything that they can do now?
ROD WHEELER, FORMER HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: Exactly, Rita. As a matter
of fact, that's the reason why there has been somewhat of a delay in trying
to determine the manner of death and the cause of death in this case. Now,
I can tell you from many years' experience, Rita, there have been cases
where it's taken up to three months, over the 90 days, more than 90 days to
· for the determination to come back from the medical examiner's office as to the cause of death.
It's not really highly unusual in situations like this, especially, Rita, when the body has been outside exposed, as Dr. Wecht clearly explained earlier. I mean, that happens pretty often, actually.
COSBY: And let me show a statement also, Rod. This is Ben Fawley. We're hearing now some of these comments that he made in the early days, when she was missing. And this is a quote from Ben Fawley. He said, “After she”—referring to Taylor Behl—“borrowed my skateboard, she said she wanted to drop her purse off, so we walked her. I asked her—I walked her back to the dorms so she could drop of her purse. And after that, I kind of lost—I kind of lose,” rather, “track of time.”
I got to go back to “we.” That was the first thing that stood out in my mind, Rod.
WHEELER: That's right. You know, obviously, at that point, Ben Fawley was searching rapidly to try to find an excuse, a justification, if you will, to try to show where he was at various points throughout this investigation.
But let me just also tell you, Rita, this case, I think, is going to be pretty much a slam dunk, as we say in law enforcement, because there's been so much evidence that the police have gathered with this guy, including the fact the recent evidence that came out that Ben Fawley's vehicle or a vehicle had gas purchased on Ben Fawley's credit card between the city or the county of Mathews County and Richmond, which, again has got to be clearly direct evidence that's going to be used against this guy.
So I think with this kind of statement and some of the other statements, including the alleged beating that Ben Fawley said he endured, all of that is just excuses he's trying to make up to try justify his whereabouts at given times throughout this case.
COSBY: Yes, and again, inconsistencies even in that statement that I just showed, right? It's all these wacky—he has one alibi here, another story here.
You know, Dr. Wecht, you got all this stuff against this guy. But as you point out, they do not have an exact cause of death. Do you think they're going to wait until these toxicology reports come in? What's been your experience, Dr. Wecht?
WECHT: They shall wait. But of course, the problem is, Rita, without soft tissues and body fluids, you're not going to get toxicology. Toxicological analyses from bones yields results only when you've got chronic poisoning and things that have been administered over a period of time, such as heavy metals and so on. You're not going to get things like alcohol, morphine, sedatives, tranquilizers, et cetera, from bones. So the toxicological analysis is not going to give you any results. The medical examiner's office is properly waiting, and they'll put it all together.
COSBY: All right, guys. Thank you very much, both of you.
And still ahead, everybody: Parents install a nanny-cam to watch after their kids, but look what they caught instead. Here it is, crooks robbing their house. But did the cops catch them? We have some new details tonight.
And the Minnesota Vikings sex scandal is making waves. But we're asking could what happened on the boat be illegal?
And sparks fly as Tommy Lee is hurt in a pyrotechnic stunt gone horribly wrong. Tonight, we have exclusive pictures. You're only going to see them here. They're coming in right to us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: Well, we have some exclusive photos tonight of a stunt gone wrong involving a big-named celebrity. It happened last night when rocker Tommy Lee got burned during a Motley Crue show in Wyoming and ended up in the hospital.
Joining me now live on the phone are two eyewitnesses to talk about the flying sparks during a pyrotechnic incident. We've got Tom Morton. He's a reporter with the “Casper Star-Tribune” newspaper. And also Tomi Thompson, who shot these exclusive shots.
Tom Morton, let me start with you. I know you're a reporter. But you were there just for fun, right?
TOM MORTON, “CASPER STAR-TRIBUNE”: Right. Yes, I just had a ticket at the last minute. And never saw him, and wanted to have some fun.
COSBY: And when did you know, Tom Morton, that things were going horribly wrong?
MORTON: There was a point at which he was playing drums on one of his elevated sets and, you know, a lot of sparks. Something didn't seem quite right. Then he goes down, plays on the drum kit on the stage. It looked as if somebody was attending to him.
And it just had kind of a weird feeling to it. And then they did this song stop—they did band introductions. And then, I believe it was Vince Neil who said they weren't able to—he wasn't able to come out and he may have been injured.
COSBY: Yes. Tomi Thompson, you took these great pictures that we're looking at right here. What did you see when the pyrotechnics stunt was going on? What did you see?
TOMI THOMPSON, TOOK TOMMY LEE PHOTOGRAPHS: I actually was trying to take the pictures during all of the light effects. And then, as he was coming onto the last elevated set, he started moving around and moving some of the components. And it started a light show and a lot of sparkler-type effects.
And then it turned into him actually pushing on one of the keyboards in kind of an aggressive way, just as an act of the set. And when it finally came to an end, a big flash of light occurred. And then that's when smoke caused him to kind of disappear for a moment.
And then we found him down on the stage in the center set where he said, “Well, boy, how did you like that?” And we got a reaction from the crowd. And he said, “Wait while I get naked for a minute.”
And the guy was taking off his harness. And then some of the intros came in. And we kind of saw him just kind of fade out from that set. And they faded the lights out.
And then, eventually, Nick—excuse me, Vince Neil and Nikki Sixx came out. And they said, “Sorry, guys. Unfortunately, we're going to have to stop the show tonight because Tommy's been injured and he means a lot more to us than this show does. And unfortunately, we'll have to catch you another time back in Casper, and we'll make up for it. But until then, thanks for coming out, and I hope you enjoyed the show.”
And then that's how it ended.
COSBY: Wow, and that's when you found out—Tom Morton—and, again, as we were showing those pictures before, I want to explain to everybody those are from a cell phone. You know how you take those small photos.
So it's really incredible that Tomi Thompson was able to capture those. And we appreciate you bringing them on.
Tom Morton, what kind of condition is Tommy Lee in? I do want to show one statement, and this came from sort of the official Motley Crue official fan club. And it says that “Tommy Lee suffered minor burns on his arms and face while suspended 30 feet above the stage during a pyrotechnic explosion.”
Tom Morton, do you know what kind of condition he's in? And has he been released?
MORTON: No, I'm sorry. We had tried very hard to get responses from the hospital. And another reporter who is following up on this today—basically all those reporters got was, “Well, there's no Tommy Lee here registered at the hospital.”
So we really do not know anything else. I wish we did. You probably know more than we do.
COSBY: Yes, in fact, I was read some report that he may have already been released from the hospital, which we do hope is, indeed, the case, meaning that it wasn't that severe.
Both of you, thank you. And Tomi Thompson, thanks for bringing the pictures on, too. We appreciate it.
And tonight, everybody, we have learned that allegations of prostitution and lewd acts are behind the Minnesota Vikings sex scandal. Investigators want to know what happened during a party aboard a chartered boat.
Tonight, we now know that investigators have the names of 17 members of the Vikings who may have been on that boat and may have been part of the alleged, quote, “sex party.”
Joining me now live is Bob Sansevere. He's a sports columnist with the “St. Paul Pioneer-Press” newspaper.
You know, Bob, how bad did it get on this boat? I've heard just some pretty sick things.
BOB SANSEVERE, “ST. PAUL PIONEER-PRESS”: Well, I wasn't on the board, but what we're dealing with are all the allegations...
COSBY: You weren't on the boat? I'm glad we cleared that up for the audience.
(LAUGHTER)
SANSEVERE: I do live near Lake Minnetonka, but I was not anywhere near the lake at that time.
COSBY: What did hear happened on that boat?
SANSEVERE: There were two boats. And the allegations—frankly, it makes it sound like they were a couple of floating Sodom and Gomorrah. I mean, anything we could imagine—I don't know if we can even imagine some of the things that have been alleged, because they—and people out here obviously are—the first thing is shock.
It's almost like dealing with the different stages of grief, the shock, and then the—you know, you're dealing with—some people are certainly depressed by it, the fans. But I think then there's anger that comes up in some people, too. And it could have a ripple effect into the Vikings' attempt to get a new stadium.
COSBY: Well, that's why I want to ask even beyond that. And some of the things I've read—just horrible things of like oral sex. There was prostitutes on board. And people were sort of having sex with each other. It sounds horrible.
And the quarterback was involved. Also, the running back there's some allegations.
SANSEVERE: Well...
COSBY: Could we even see criminal charges, or is it just bad ethical behavior?
SANSEVERE: Well, you know, this is—I talked to the sheriff—the head of the county sheriff earlier tonight. I was actually on with them in an earlier show on MSNBC.
And he said it'll take several weeks to investigate. And once they've investigated, they'll turn over whatever they have to the attorney representing—it's the LMCD, which is the Lake Minnetonka Conservation District.
And, frankly, if you read their rules and regulations, they actually have a rule governing dancers and exotic dancing. And if the allegations are to be believed, I think that there would be some charges, if, you know, what has been said happened actually—or the authorities believe they did.
Because you can't be with—if you're exotic dancing on the lake, you can't be within 10 feet of the dancer, you can't give money to the dancer, and you can't touch or have any type of sexual activity with the dancer.
Now, according to the allegations, all of those things happened and many things beyond that.
COSBY: I want to show a statement from the Minnesota Vikings, because we did ask for a statement. And this is their comment about the whole ordeal.
It says, “The organization has been made aware of the allegations”—all the ones you're talking about there, Bob—“involving our players. And we take these allegations very seriously. We're working diligently to gather as many facts as possible. At this time, we have no further comment.”
Real quick, can the team do anything? Five seconds.
SANSEVERE: Well, what the team should do is, if they do find out that there are players who were involved, and it could be proved in an investigation, they should be suspended indefinitely. The team and the league have to deal with this harshly.
COSBY: We're going to be keeping an eye on it. Bob, thank you very much.
And still ahead, everybody, you're caught on candid camera. Some crooks thought no one was at home. Find out if they got caught by more than just one nanny cam. Take a look. There's a lot of them there.
Plus, Michael Jackson and his kids cause a raucous at one of the biggest tourist attractions in the world.
And talk about a fishtail. A lucky teenager now has a big story to tell his kids some day. But will they ever believe him? This is incredible. You got to stick around for this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: Tonight, three burglary suspects in Texas have been nabbed by nanny cam. Take a look at this amazing video.
Cameras rolled on this home robbery just a few days ago. The entire incident caught two men and one woman red-handed as their sticky fingers lifted stuff from the home. And joining me live is Lieutenant Brian Harpole with the Northlake, Texas, police department.
Lieutenant, first of all, the cameras captured them. How did they get into the home to begin with?
LT. BRIAN HARPOLE, NORTHLAKE, TEXAS, POLICE DEPARTMENT: They entered the home through a rear open window on the rear of the building. And they came around to the back side of the house and made entry through there.
COSBY: And what exactly did they take?
HARPOLE: They went in and took a couple guitars, some small electronic items, a safe containing some savings bonds, some fishing tackle, just all items that they could carry out easily out the front door.
COSBY: And I understand the family at first didn't even realize it, because they weren't—they had sort of stopped using the nanny cam. And then they realized, “Aha,” right? And then they came back and said, “Wait, I may still might have this”?
HARPOLE: You're correct, Rita. At first, when the caller first told me they had video of it, I couldn't believe it. And it's because he had it to watch his nanny. And she had since been let go. And then he had actually remembered that the nanny cam was still working. And he pulled it up, and there it was, the surveillance of the three suspects.
COSBY: Now, why did it start recording? Is it on all the time or was it like motion-activated?
HARPOLE: Exactly. It's on all the time. It runs on a seven-day loop. And after the seven days, if there's nothing on it that you want it, it starts recording over itself. And the cameras in it of themselves are motion-activated. And so, once they make entry to the house, then the cameras started rolling.
COSBY: Now, this family didn't just have a nanny cam, they had nanny cams, right? How many?
HARPOLE: Correct. They had four nanny cams, one of them on the actual child's sleeping area, another one outside to the rear of the house, and then the other ones were in certain rooms inside the house.
COSBY: And real quick, I understand you have a woman and her son, right, and a third guy that you're looking for? What do we know about these potential suspects?
HARPOLE: We actually captured them just before I came up here to give you this interview.
COSBY: Oh, you did? OK, just in the last few minutes?
HARPOLE: Yes, we captured them about three hours ago. And they all have confessed to the crimes that they did. And as you said, one of them is a mother, her son, and a friend of the son.
COSBY: And what advice are you telling the residents?
HARPOLE: Well, this is just—the residents are very proud—are glad that they had the nanny cam working. And he's to be applauded for having the foresight to have the nanny cam in the first place, but then also utilize it as evidence after he called us.
COSBY: You bet. Well, Lieutenant, thank you very much. And interesting to see this video, too. And again, caught red-handed. And I'm glad you got all three of the folks responsible in the last few hours. Thank you.
HARPOLE: Thank you, Rita.
COSBY: Thank you.
And tonight, police are asking for your help in finding a California woman who went missing from a casino. Just moments ago, literally, we got some exclusive surveillance video. And here it is.
It was literally fed into us a few moments ago that police say shows 27-year-old Christie Wilson leaving a casino with a 53-year-old man. There they are. The man, whose identity has not been released, is now being considered a person of interest in the case.
And for the very latest, we're joined by Lieutenant George Malim.
He's of the Placer County sheriff's department.
Let me bring you in, George, first of all, Lieutenant, as we see—if we can show this video again. It's pretty incredible. What do we know about this guy who she's walking away with?
LT. GEORGE MALIM, PLACER COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: We know his name. We have interviewed him. We've interviewed him twice. He's since retained an attorney. But that's not going to hinder our investigation in any ways.
And he's considered a person of interest right now. Obviously, we don't have any crime at this point, but we are certainly interested. We recovered some items from his car that we believe have some forensic value to them. And they're currently at the lab being analyzed now.
COSBY: What kind of items in his car?
MALIM: We're not putting that out just yet.
COSBY: I thought I'd try anyway. It's a good shot.
(LAUGHTER)
What do we know about this guy?
MALIM: We know that he's 53. He's married. He's a Placer County resident, has been for years. And he works in the Sacramento area.
COSBY: And what do we know—did you talk to his family? What do we know about his whereabouts that night? What is he saying he did after he left with Christie, clearly, on this tape?
MALIM: Well, what he told us was that, yes, you know, he met her at the casino. They walked out to the parking lot. And he states that she said she lost her cell phone inside. She went back in the casino. And he left and went on his way. And he never saw her again.
COSBY: What do we know of what happened sort of inside the casino? Do we know if she won any big money that night, if she was drinking, or if this 53-year-old man was drinking?
MALIM: We're still researching to see if we can determine, you know, if she lost or if she won, as well as, you know, what he was—whether he was up or down. But we do see that, you know, they apparently meet for the first time in the casino at a card table. And then we see them moving around the casino to various card tables and then eventually walking out of the casino together.
COSBY: Do you absolutely believe now, based on sort of all the information you're looking at, sir, that this is foul play involved in her disappearance?
MALIM: Obviously, that is probably one of our prime targets right now. However, again, we're not rushing to any judgment on anything. And we're kind of keeping an open mind.
And we're not coming up with a theory and saying, “Well, this is probably what happened,” and make the evidence fit that. That'd be like putting a jigsaw puzzle together and jamming in those pieces that kind of look like they fit.
Well, at the end, you'd have some missing pieces and not a full picture. So what we're doing is we're just following the evidence and letting this—let that take us to where it goes. And that will give us the explanation.
COSBY: And, Lieutenant, I want to show everybody the video, because, again, we literally just got this in. If somebody is watching this at home and has any information, what kinds of things should they be looking for? And, obviously, where should they contact?
MALIM: Well, they can call the sheriff's office, first of all, at 530-889-7867. And that will go to one of our investigative assistants who's compiling this information and obviously getting it to us so we can do follow-up.
But we're hoping that this videotape jogs someone's memory. As you can see, there's people coming in and out of the casino. There's cars in and out of the parking lot. Even though it's a Tuesday night-Wednesday morning, the casino's constantly going. It's a 24-hour operation.
We're hoping someone that sees this, it jars their memory and they say, “Gosh, I remember seeing them in that parking lot. I better call.” And hopefully, we'll get a better picture of what happened in that parking lot beyond the camera range.
COSBY: Absolutely. Again, as we're looking at this picture of the two of them walking off that night. Lieutenant, please keep us posted. Thank you very much.
And now, a follow-up on a big story that we've been following all this week. There will be no prison perks for the BTK serial killer.
Prosecutors have successfully stopped Dennis Rader from living out his twisted fantasies from behind bars. According to the court's recommendations after a hearing late yesterday, Rader will now not be able to draw images of humans or animals for the rest of his life, which was one of the major ways that he fueled his sick fantasies.
He will not have access to crayons or writing materials. He will also be restricted from media accounts of his crimes and will not be able to give recorded interviews.
Rader was sentenced to life in prison in August for killing 10 people and terrorizing Wichita, Kansas, for more than three decades.
And still ahead, everybody, a big catch. We have the teenager with a story he's going to be telling for the rest of his life. He's going to reel you in with the amazing details. He's coming up next.
And later, Michael Jackson and his kids pop up in London with his kids wearing veils. But we have some details unveiled for you. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: Well, it was a colossal catch for one teenage fisherman. Seventeen-year-old John Padden hooked a giant swordfish off the coast of Florida and—get this—it weighed 527 pounds, measuring 13 feet in length from tip to tale. And he joins me now live in his first televised interview.
You know, John, first of all, I got to show you, you're holding—this is a similar fishing rod to the one that you used to catch the big fish. How long is this rod?
JOHN PADDEN, CAUGHT A 527-POUND SWORDFISH: Oh, it's about five and a half feet. It's very similar to what we used.
COSBY: It's exactly right, like, to catch 527-pound fish. What did it feel like when you first got the first big tug?
PADDEN: Well, you know, it didn't feel huge. We knew it was a nice fish, but we never would have thought it was 527 pounds.
COSBY: When did you realize how big it was? And were you bummed—I was reading some of the other records. You were a little short of the state record. And, actually, the world record's twice that size. I can't even imagine.
PADDEN: Yes, you know, it was big, you know? When it came to the boat, we knew it was big. But it's nowhere near a record. It's still a nice fish, though.
COSBY: How did you finally get it on the boat?
PADDEN: Oh, it took a lot of work. We had a lot of people trying to lift it over the stern of the boat. A lot of effort to get it on, and we finally did.
COSBY: And I heard, John, that you did most of it, right, and then, at the end, you got a little tired, right after a few hours?
PADDEN: After three hours, Allen Wilson (ph) took over the last half an hour. And we got him in the boat.
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: What did you do with the fish? What did you do with the swordfish, 527 pounds?
PADDEN: Well, we took it back and weighed it in the next day. And we filleted it. And we're going to eat most of it and give a lot away. And half the fish is going to get mounted, the head section, with the real bill from the fish.
COSBY: And where's the head going to go?
PADDEN: Oh, I don't know. Over my bed.
COSBY: You're going to keep it?
PADDEN: Yes.
COSBY: Now, you're part of the famous sort of Entenmann family. I know your grandfather is sort of the famous William Entenmann, the Entenmann pastries.
PADDEN: That's right.
COSBY: Did he give you any advice? Did he say this is sort of sweeter success than any of the pastries he's been a part of?
PADDEN: Well, you know, it's nice to catch a fish like that, but, you know...
COSBY: Was everyone cheering you on?
PADDEN: Yes.
COSBY: What was your reaction when you saw the size of it? I want to show a picture, you know, just when you look at this, this is enormous. Did your jaw just drop? Did you have any idea?
PADDEN: Well, yes, once we saw it, we realized it was big, and, you know, it was going to be right around 500 pounds.
COSBY: And you're going to be using that rod in the future again, right?
PADDEN: Oh, definitely.
COSBY: Tell us a little bit about that rod and what you're planning on doing when you get your next big fish.
PADDEN: Well, you know, hopefully, I can get him in myself next time.
COSBY: Why don't hold it up so—yes, we can see it, because it's pretty amazing, the size of it. This is huge.
PADDEN: Yes.
COSBY: And you built this, I understand?
PADDEN: Part of it.
COSBY: You built part of it?
PADDEN: Yes.
COSBY: And what are you planning—when you get your next big fish, what's your game plan?
PADDEN: Well, you know, just try as hard as we can. You know, hopefully we get something like that again.
COSBY: We hope so, too. And if you do, I promise we're going to invite you back on, John. I promise.
PADDEN: OK.
COSBY: Congratulations, John.
PADDEN: Thanks a lot, Rita.
COSBY: Great story. Thanks so much.
And still ahead everybody, the King of Pop across the pond. We're going to tell you why Michael Jackson's surprise appearance in London was a real thriller for the paparazzi. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: Well, they're rocking here in the studio.
After four months in seclusion, Michael Jackson is causing quite a stir. And he's being quite a “star” in England.
The pop star popped up in London where he is recording a song to help victims of Hurricane Katrina. This is his first public outing since being acquitted of child molestation charges back in June. Crowds are going wild outside of Jackson's hotel. There are reports that he checked in under the name of an 800-year-old British knight.
And Jackson isn't alone. His three kids are with him. There was some chaos when they showed up outside of Harrods department store, and you can see, wearing their veils.
And coming up here tomorrow night, it can be dangerous game of cat and mouse, the celebrity versus the paparazzi. Both sides are going to square off tomorrow night right here on LIVE & DIRECT. So be sure to tune in for that.
And that does it for me tonight, everybody. I'm Rita Cosby. Thanks for watching tonight. Former congresswoman and my pal, Susan Molinari, is in tonight in “SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.” She's filling in for Joe. She is now live in Washington.
Susan, great to have you here. Take it away.
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