Guests: Steven Bates, Adam Helliker, Kathryn Eisman, Ruth Hilton, Dickie Arbiter, Richard Johnson, Charles Wolf, Camilla Hellman, Daniel Fagen, Cassie Fevello, Ray Scro, Dickie Arbiter, Martin Lewis
RITA COSBY, HOST: Good evening, everybody. It‘s a royal invasion. Prince Charles is making his first official visit to the United States in more than a decade, and he‘s brought the new wife, Camilla Parker-Bowles, and her 50 dresses and 40 staffers to help glamour up. The whirlwind trip began today in New York, one of the first stops a memorial dedication at Ground Zero for the dozens of British subjects who died on 9/11. And now it‘s onto some big welcoming parties.
In this next hour, we‘re going to give you all the royal fix that you need. Charles and Camilla, the story behind their fairy-tale love story, a story about sex, lies and also royal scandal.
Let‘s begin with Steven Bates with the UK “Guardian” newspaper, who was at the royal party in New York tonight. We also have with us Adam Helliker. He‘s a columnist with Britain‘s “Sunday Express” newspaper, who joins us across the pond in London.
Steven, let me start with you. How is the party going tonight?
STEVEN BATES, “THE GUARDIAN”: Well, I think it went very well. There were a few celebrities which we thought were coming who didn‘t show. But they got a pretty good turnout, several hundred people here at the Museum of Modern Art, and it seemed to go very well and they seemed to be very happy and well welcomed by New York.
COSBY: Yes, what was the kind of reception they got? Was there a lot of press? Was it very sort of open and warm spirit, Steven?
BATES: Yes, and there‘s a lot of press interest, more probably our side of the pond than yours, but it‘s been very warm and there‘s a lot of interest in Camilla, what she‘s like, what she looks like, how she behaves, how she carries herself. And of course, inevitably, this side of the pond, a lot of comparisons with Diana.
COSBY: All right, well, let‘s go to the other side of the pond.
Adam, how is the trip playing out over there so far?
ADAM HELLIKER, “SUNDAY EXPRESS”: There‘s a lot of interest, and everyone is very keen to see how Camilla is doing because this is a big test for her. She knows it. She‘s been very nervous. She‘s had all sorts of training, including lots of yoga sessions to get into the mood for this. And I think she‘s doing very well so far.
COSBY: All right, well, both of you, hold on, if you could, guys, because we want to look now at how this couple really came together after their 30-year love affair. NBC‘s Hota Kotb has all the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This family is so dysfunctional, they make the Osbournes look completely functional.
HOTA KOTB, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Remember 1981? Now that was a royal wedding, when Prince Charles was Prince Charming, and 20-year-old Lady Diana was the eye-popping princess in an apparent real-life fairy tale that enchanted 750 million TV viewers around the world. But the marriage didn‘t work out, and fans of Diana blame a certain woman who was in the congregation that day, Camilla Parker-Bowles.
(on camera): Diana described her as this evil Rottweiler, husband stealer, home wrecker. Was she all those things?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was all those things and more.
William Shawcross: “Oh, that‘s just nonsense. She‘s not a home wrecker. She‘s not a husband stealer. I don‘t think that Charles‘s marriage with Diana foundered because of Camilla. That‘s just a myth that the press likes to create and perpetuate.
KOTB: So who is this woman who stole the prince‘s heart? Unlike Diana, whose story is famous all over the world, Camilla Parker-Bowles has never told her story. So we tracked down some of her lifelong friends, friends who took us right back to the beginning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don‘t say she was a bossy person, but she commanded a sort of aura and respect, even as a small child.
KOTB: Camilla Shand grew up in a wealthy wine merchant family in the south of England, a member of the British rural elite. Childhood friend of Camilla Broderick Monroe Wilson (ph) says he remembers a girl who was always the life and soul of the party.
(on camera): So was she someone who had lots of friends?
BRODERICK MONROE WILSON, CHILDHOOD FRIEND: Lots and lots and lots of friends. Very popular person, yes.
KOTB (voice-over): He says she was skilled and competitive on horseback.
BRODERICK MONROE WILSON: Horses and ponies and hunting. That was our lives.
KOTB (on camera): So what made Camilla back in those days different or unique compared to the other girls?
BRODERICK MONROE WILSON: She was certainly different. I mean, she had a lot of spirit. She was very, very lively.
KOTB (voice-over): And apparently very bold. He says he was at a polo match in 1970 when 23-year-old Camilla went up to 22-year-old Prince Charles and hit him with this.
BRODERICK MONROE WILSON: She says to him, Oh, you know, your great-grandfather and my great-grandmother were lovers. You know, How about it?
KOTB (on camera): Was it surprising to you that Camilla and Charles started just talking and hit it off that day?
BRODERICK MONROE WILSON: Not at all because she‘s very easy and very relaxed.
KOTB (voice-over): And it wasn‘t long before Charles apparently fell for Camilla‘s charms, says royal watcher and Camilla critic Christopher Wilson.
(on camera): So do you think it was one of those love, instantly, just like that, between Charles and Camilla?
CHRISTOPHER WILSON, ROYAL WATCHER: It was sex, instantly. Most of his other relationships with other women did not have that sort of potent thrill.
KOTB: Why on earth didn‘t those two just go ahead and get married in the first place?
CHRIS WILSON: First, she wasn‘t a virgin, and back in the early 1970s, weird as it may seem, we wanted to have a Princess of Wales who‘d never been to bed with anybody else.
KOTB: And, says Wilson, the royal elders hoped Charles would marry a princess from another country to create some kind of royal super-dynasty. And finally, he says, some of the advisers around the queen didn‘t approve of Camilla.
CHRIS WILSON: Courtiers were looking at her when she was going out with Prince Charles and going, We can‘t have that face on a stamp or a coin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: Ouch! Well, this trip will make history too. Today, Charles and Camilla made their first stop in New York. Tomorrow, they‘re going to head to Washington, D.C., where the prince plans to meet with the president, President Bush. Then they will head to New Orleans to tour damage from Hurricane Katrina. Then they‘re going to go all the way across the country to northern California, wrapping up their eight-day tour.
Let‘s bring back in my guests, Steven Bates with “The Guardian” newspaper, and also Adam Helliker with “The Sunday Express” over there in London.
Adam, has the press always been this brutal on Camilla? I mean, has it just been a constant?
HELLIKER: It has for Camilla. She‘s always suffered. She‘s never been popular probably with both newspapers and the people. So she knows she‘s got to work doubly hard to gain any type of acceptance both in Britain and America. She has really weathered a storm for the three decades she‘s been at Prince Charles‘s side.
COSBY: You know, you bet. And in fact, Steven, before I go to you, I want to show some of the headlines. I mean, they have really been brutal. I mean, you heard some of the comments before about Rottweiler (INAUDIBLE) “Royal Tour by Two Earnest Eccentrics Leaves Us Unmoved.” Also, there‘s a comment in “The Miami Herald” saying it‘s the un-Diana tour. And here it is in “The Mirror”—“Her Royal Who?-ness?”
Steven, what‘s the reaction of the press? Are they ever going to let up?
BATES: Well, I think the press in the United States has been harder in recent months and years maybe than the press in Britain. I think, over on our side, she‘s been accepted as an item for some years now, and there has been a degree of letting up. But here, the press has been very virulent these last few days, and she‘s sure aware of it. Today, she looked quite strained, and although she was smiling, it was quite a hard smile today. So I think she‘s very conscious that she‘s got some wooing to do over here.
COSBY: Yes, and you know, Adam, you talked about some of the stress that she was going for on her way here. In fact, as we‘re looking at more headlines here coming from “The Daily Telegraph” on Camilla—“A Wicked Stepmother”—you talked about she‘s enduring some stress. You said she‘s even doing, what, some yoga on her way over here? Is this visit going to soften her, going to change her image at all, Adam?
HELLIKER: I don‘t think so. I think we‘ve still got a long way to go before we see Camilla accepted by—in the same way that Diana was, and she knows that. And Prince Charles and his entourage know that, too. So it‘s a long uphill climb, but it‘s the beginnings of something that‘s quite positive. So the more they work at it and the more she works at it, the better it will become.
COSBY: You know, and Steven, does it help her in the sense—you know, let‘s talk about the event. We just got some comments, and our producer was out there, talked to some of the celebrities who were there. I‘m going to show that. And then I want to get your reaction to sort of maybe the beginning of her sort of glamorizing herself. Let‘s first hear some of the celebs who are at the event that you‘re at, Steven.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOKO ONO, SINGER: Very nice. They‘re very expert people (INAUDIBLE) cordial to everybody. And I‘m very happy that the duchess is finally introduced in New York City.
BARRY DILLER, MEDIA MOGUL: I think it‘s nice because it makes people
or it makes everybody kind of—kind of get themselves together and it‘s—you know, there‘s nothing bad about it. I don‘t know that there‘s any actual significance.
DIANE VON FURSTENBERG, DESIGNER: I think she‘s wonderful, and I mean, it wasn‘t that important, but it was nice to come and pay respects.
STING, SINGER: Just to see them in New York—I think New York will take to them very well because they‘re (INAUDIBLE) very sweet people and very normal people (INAUDIBLE) And so nice to see New Yorkers get the chance to meet them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: SO Steven, will this sort of pump up the image for her?
BATES: Well, I guess so. I mean, I think there‘s more acceptance of
her these days than might have been a few years ago. Maybe 30 years ago,
it was more difficult. Maybe 20 years ago, it was more difficult. But
these days, both here and in Britain, most people know couples who‘ve been
divorced, couples who‘ve had long-standing relationships. They‘re less
judgmental, by and large, than they were. And I suspect, slowly and surely
the royals are being very, very cautious about all this. It‘s been a very slow dance towards acceptance.
I think there is going to be some acceptance of her. I think people realize that she makes Charles happy, and maybe that‘s good for him and maybe that‘s good for the country. It really depends, actually, long his mother lives for. If she dies within the next year or so, then it might be a bit more difficult to accept Camilla. If she dies in 20 years‘ time, which she might do, her mother lived to be 100, then Camilla will be pretty well accepted, I would guess.
COSBY: All right. Well, we‘re going to be following...
BATES: They‘ll also be quite old.
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: Yes, because what, she‘s—how old is she now? She‘s 58? Is that right?
BATES: Late 50s. Late 50s, yes.
COSBY: All right, guys. Thank you very much. I‘m told she is 58.
Thanks so much, both of you.
And everybody, our hour-long royal special continues. We‘re going to continue our coverage. Is Camilla Parker-Bowles trying to compete with the late Princess Diana when it comes to all this glam? Wait until you hear who is working for her behind the scenes.
And the tabloids and paparazzi have been brutal to Camilla long before she was even married to the prince. Have they let up? What‘s the future on that?
And we‘ve got the answer to a shocking question. What does the queen really think about Camilla Parker-Bowles? You just heard about her from Steven. What does she think? That‘s all ahead on LIVE AND DIRECT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: Well, Prince Charles‘s first official visit to the United States in more than a decade, as you can see, has the tabloids and the paparazzi ready to pounce. From London is Dickie Arbiter. He‘s a former spokesman from the queen. And also Ruth Hilton. She‘s the senior news editor with celebrity magazine “OK!”
Let me start with you, Ruth. First of all, what‘s the relationship with Camilla and the tabloids?
RUTH HILTON, SENIOR EDITOR, “OK!” MAGAZINE: Well, I think Camilla has a very difficult relationship with the tabloids, not least because the tabloids loved Diana so very, very much. I think the British tabloids, especially, are, you know, incredibly good at trashing the most famous figures in the country. And unfortunately, Camilla has had a very, very tough ride. And that tough ride, I think, will long continue, actually.
But I do think that the palace is working very hard on creating a slow acceptance of her, and I think this visit will really be an absolute keystone in making that happen.
COSBY: And Dickie, do you agree? And do you also agree she‘s always going to be in Diana‘s shadow, there‘s always going to be these comparisons?
DICKIE ARBITER, FORMER BUCKINGHAM PALACE SPOKESMAN: I don‘t think it‘s going to be possible at all in her lifetime to remove her from Diana‘s shadow. You know, the very embodiment of Diana lives with us every day in the form of William and Harry. So as long as they‘re around, we‘re going to be living with Diana.
But I think she‘s doing a pretty good job in the U.S., on your side of the pond. It‘s been pretty difficult for her knowing that she‘s under the media microscope. Our British tabloids, they do trash anybody famous, anybody who‘s successful.
COSBY: Yes, they don‘t give anybody a break, do they, Dickie?
ARBITER: They don‘t give anybody, anybody a break. And your newspapers, by comparison, are pussycats. But what is quite reminiscent is when they went into the Museum of Modern Art this evening, the number of photographers outside, which is sort of fairly reminiscent of the days when Diana was there, but then, I think the photographers were there for a slightly different reason than they were for Diana.
COSBY: Yes, absolutely. Both of you, actually, if you could hold on, both of you, because I want to remind our viewers about “Camilla-gate.” That‘s when those secret tapes of Charles and Camilla‘s conversation were leaked to the press in the early 1990s, and also how it was covered in the media at the time. That, of course, was a spark plug for everything. Here‘s NBC‘s Hota Kotb.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAMILLA: I can‘t bear a Sunday night without you.
CHARLES: Oh, God!
CAMILLA: It‘s like that program, “Start the Week.” I can‘t start the week without you.
KOTB (voice-over): An intimate six-minute conversation between Camilla and Charles recorded in 1989, eight years after Charles married Diana, finally exposed the couple when it was made public in early 1993.
(on camera): On the Richter scale, how big of a scandal that was one?
CHRISTOPHER WILSON: It blew the Richter scale to pieces.
KOTB: Does the queen like Camilla?
CHRISTOPHER WILSON: The queen sees anybody who upsets the royal family as being a traitor. And to her, Camilla is a traitor.
KOTB (voice-over): Supporters of Diana were furious at Camilla.
CHRISTOPHER WILSON: They hate her. They resent her. They once threw bread rolls at her in a supermarket.
KOTB (on camera): Did they?
(voice-over): In 1994, after Charles and Diana had separated, the prince went on British national television and confessed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you try to be faithful and honorable to your wife when you took on the vow of marriage?
CHARLES: Yes. A basically.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you were?
CHARLES: Yes, until it became irretrievably broken down.
KOTB: As Charles and Diana‘s marriage crumbled, Diana shocked the royal family and the public by launching her own publicity campaign, blaming Camilla for her wrecked marriage.
DIANA: Well, there were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded.
KOTB: But long-time friend of Camilla‘s Broderick Monroe Wilson says Diana wasn‘t being entirely truthful.
BRODERICK MONROE WILSON: Princess Diana had the most fantastic publicity machine behind her. And of course, she was the master manipulator. I mean, Camilla Parker-Bowles has done none of that.
KOTB: And one of Camilla‘s closest friends, William Shawcross, agrees, saying Camilla has been misunderstood because she has declined to tell her story.
(on camera): Why do you think Camilla has never spoken publicly?
WILLIAM SHAWCROSS, FRIEND OF CAMILLA: She‘s always been discreet, and she has never sought to answer back. She has never sort of stooped, if you like, to say, I must have my day on the front of the tabloid press. And I think that‘s a terrific sign of strength on her part.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: And let‘s bring back in Ruth Hilton and also Dickie Arbiter.
Ruth, how come she hasn‘t responded and defended herself?
HILTON: Well, I think it‘s probably, actually, a testament to the fact that this love really is real between the two of them. They have a private space together. They have a private relationship, and they will keep that private. I actually think this is something that‘s rather dignified about the two of them, and I hope that that kind of thing will carry them far. I mean, they are a middle-aged couple.
COSBY: On the other hand, has it helped them with the press? I mean, I guess what I‘m asking, is someone in the press there, if they came out and spoke, if she did, in particular, do you think that that might turn some things around, maybe improve the relationship she has?
HILTON: One does wonder. I mean, unfortunately, every time she‘ll—if she speaks about it, unfortunately, will unearth absolutely everything that has gone before. So there would be a huge publicity blaze. I doubt that the time would be right now, maybe when they‘ve settled in, after this state visit, obviously, to the United States. Maybe they‘ve settled in, they will choose to do that.
But really, you know, the future of the royal family is Princes William and Harry, and I think that‘s where, you know, this—really, we need to start focusing, or that‘s—you know, that‘s where the focus now lies. These two are—you know, they‘re trying to do things in a much more low-key way than Charles ever did with Diana, and they‘re moving forward very slowly and very carefully. I don‘t think that doing an interview like that right at this minute would really help that particular campaign in the way that you need to wage it.
COSBY: Yes, it is a very different style. I give you that. Dickie, should she talk to the press? Is there something you would advise her? You know, you were a spokesman there at the Buckingham Palace for a long time. What would you advise her, if you were strategizing with her?
ARBITER: Keep her mouth shut.
(LAUGHTER)
ARBITER: You know, she‘s waited 35 years. She‘s waited 35 years to get where she is today, and she‘s not about to ruin it by revealing all. And there‘s a lot to reveal. You‘ve got to remember that during the period when Charles and Diana were married and Camilla was standing there on the sidelines, and sometimes not even on the sidelines, the institution of monarchy was being rocked. It was being damaged. And the last thing we want is for the institution to be damaged again.
So the best thing they can do is keep their mouths shut, much the same advice that I gave when I was working for the Prince of Wales at the time that he did that television interview. The original plan was to do something fairly bland to celebrate 25 years as the Prince of Wales, jolly fine fellow, talk to the organizations. But then somebody got to him. They moved the goalposts, and we had the confession. And he said, yes, he did have a relationship with Camilla when the marriage irretrievably broke down.
But we have never heard is when did that marriage irretrievably break down? And judging by the comments made at the time of the engagement, when an interviewer said to Diana, And I suppose very much in love, and she said, Of course, and he said, Whatever in love means. So maybe it was broken down even before it started.
COSBY: Yes, certainly seems so. Everybody, stick around, if you could. Dickie, we‘re going to be talking with you later on in the show. And we want to get some more insights about sort of what‘s going on behind closed doors there in Buckingham Palace. And Ruth, thank you very, very much.
Also, the royal wives certainly had a very different sense of style. Joining me now to talk about the royal haute couture is Kathryn Eisman, who has been seen on many shows, including “Today” in New York and also our affiliate, WNBC, right here in New York. And also with us is humorist and host of his own Sirius satellite radio show, our pal, Martin Lewis.
And Kathryn, I got to go through this. This is amazing. I want to run down, this is who she has with her traveling on the trip. You know, I‘m glad if I have an extra person with me when I‘m traveling. Three personal dressers, one makeup artist, one full-time hairdresser, five full-time staff aides dedicated solely to her, packed 50 outfits. What do you make of this?
KATHRYN EISMAN, WNBC LIFESTYLE REPORTER: Well, I think that we—if we had been on the “worst dressed list” as much as she had, maybe we‘d try to get those people on with us, as well. You know, it‘s really about public perception, and that‘s what she‘s in the business of now, whether she likes it or not. And I think that she realizes that she has so much power and the way that she presents herself is really important now, so she needs help. And clearly, in the past, she‘s been criticized in a very cruel way, in ways that we would hate to have. So I think that now she wants to get it right and she wants to represent herself in the best possible light. And she‘s getting the experts in to help her do it.
COSBY: And boy, it is costly. In fact, you know, we were just talking about it with Kathryn here. But Martin, this is amazing, half a million dollars! It‘s 250 (SIC) pounds. It‘s about $440,000 for this eight-day trip. That‘s a whopping price tag, Martin.
MARTIN LEWIS, HUMORIST: It sort of reminds me of, you know, when somebody looked at Graceland one time and they saw how tawdry it was, and they said, Gee, I‘m trying to work out how do you spend a half a million dollars in Woolworth‘s? I mean, she spent all this money, but you really haven‘t got much result for it. I mean, even today, when she went out there, it was a blustery day in November. Hello! It‘s windy weather. Use some Aquanet, girlfriend! I mean, she really looked a terrible mess.
An look, when you‘re comparing, OK, this is—you know, look, it‘s a cheap shot to make fun of people‘s appearance, so let‘s go at it.
COSBY: In fact, Martin, let me bring in, if I could—I got to interrupt you because we don‘t have a lot of time. But I want to show—and I want to show our viewers—these are sort of the comparisons between the styles. This is the evening gown, first of all. This is the look of sort of Camilla versus Diana, if we can show sort of how this looked. Actually, this is the wedding here, first off. A total different look.
Total different look here, too.
Kathryn, what do you make of these?
EISMAN: OK. Well, I think it‘s very important that we look at—there‘s a big age difference between the two, and I don‘t think we want to see Camilla wearing those dresses. I don‘t think the public would accept it, and I don‘t think she‘d look particularly good in them. She‘s got her own style. She‘s—you know, she‘s (INAUDIBLE) wearing tweeds and Wellington boots. So this is a big departure from her. And yes, she‘s not the queen of style, but you know, she‘s trying.
COSBY: And Martin, what do you make of the hats?
LEWIS: She may be trying (INAUDIBLE) The thing is, of course, there is an age difference, and you‘re not expecting her to dress like Princess Diana.
EISMAN: No, you‘re not.
LEWIS: However, there are examples. The Duke and Duchess of Windsor, wherever—were debonair, elegant, suave. OK, they were Nazi sympathizers, but they looked good.
(LAUGHTER)
LEWIS: ... a very deep man.
COSBY: Yes, right. Your priorities are in the right place, Martin.
LEWIS: She looks like she‘s been dragged through the hedge backwards. I mean, and she‘s making an effort with the eye makeup now, but she looks like she‘s taking lessons from Kelly Osbourne.
COSBY: Is she doing any better?
LEWIS: Oh, she‘s doing a lot better. I think if she‘s been dragged through the hedge, it‘s a very nice hedge because she looks a lot better. I mean, she used to look shocking. Let‘s just put that out there. And now, at least her outfits coordinate. At least she‘s got the pearls on. She‘s adding a bit of rubies today, putting a bit of color in there. Yes, she looks a bit like the queen mother, but you know what? At least she doesn‘t look like the gardener.
COSBY: Hey, you guys...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: You get the last word, Martin, 10 seconds. Real quick.
LEWIS: Yes, she looks like she‘s going to go to an oldies show in Branson with people aged 85. I mean, come on! That‘s not an elegant way to look.
COSBY: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Two esteemed fashion critics here. Both of you, thank you very much. Martin, I think we have you on later on in the show. Stick with us.
And still ahead, everybody: Will Charles ever be king? And what about the next generation of royals? Are William and Harry destined to make their own embarrassing blunders? And an emotional outburst as Charles and Camilla dedicate a memorial at Ground Zero. Plus, a man who actually met the prince just a few hours ago. He‘s going to join me on LIVE AND DIRECT. Stick with us, everybody.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE CHARLES: With this official business, it‘s quite difficult to just escape and go to places. It would be nice to do it privately, but I‘d have to wait for (INAUDIBLE).
STEVE KROFT, 60 MINUTES: But do you ever get to do anything privately?
CHARLES: Yes, but it‘s not so easy now (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And that was Prince Charles in a rare interview this weekend on “60 Minutes.”
Well, a lot can change after two decades. Prince Charles‘ last visit to the White House was 20 years ago to the month with the late Princess Diana. Today, the prince arrived with his new wife, Camilla Parker Bowles. The prince has some serious business on this trip, though.
Washington correspondent for ITV News, Robert Moore, has more on that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT MOORE, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, ITV NEWS (voice-over): In a gesture that will be widely appreciated in America, they began their tour with a visit to Ground Zero. The duchess, on her inaugural foreign trip, laying flowers at a site where nearly 3,000 people died on that September day.
“An enduring memory of our shared grief,” the royal couple wrote. And all around them, the memories of lives lost.
Sixty-seven Britons were killed on September the 11th. And Prince Charles and Camilla dedicated a small garden to their memory.
PRINCE CHARLES, PRINCE OF WALES: My wife and I were profoundly moved by what we saw there. And I think it is so fitting that their lives will be commemorated in this garden.
MOORE: If, over the next week, Americans tune into this visit at all, their curiosity will be centered on Camilla.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The American jury is still out on Camilla. I think, if you ask anybody, probably their first answer would sort of be a shrug of indifference. We are still a nation in love with Diana.
MOORE: But if the jury is still out, the recognition factor, as we found out today, is still very high. We showed Americans a photo of the duchess.
(on-screen): Do you know who this woman is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Camilla Parker Bowles.
MOORE: No hesitation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No hesitation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Camilla, oh, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Camilla.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Camilla. Camilla Parker something.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From her visit, I think we will slowly begin to fall in love with her, as we did Diana. But it will be slow.
MOORE: The duchess was clearly nervous at times today, aware she in on show for the next week, aware, too, that there is always the danger of public indifference.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: And, of course, there‘s a lot more in store on this trip. Remember, he‘s going to Washington. Also, the couple is then going to New Orleans and then to California.
Let‘s bring back in Robert Moore, if we could. Robert, first of all, it‘s going to be really interesting. Tomorrow, he‘s meeting with the president. And then they‘re having a dinner. But it‘s not a state dinner, right?
MOORE: That‘s right. They‘re not just meeting. They‘re meeting pretty much for a whole day. They‘re having a family lunch tomorrow at noon. And then they‘re meeting again at dinner.
So it‘s going to be interesting what they talk about. The concerns and the passions of the prince are certainly not shared, I think it‘s fair to say, in the White House. If you‘re asking what Prince Charles cares about, it‘s about the environment, about global warming. It‘s about trying to create a new dialogue between Islam and Christianity.
So, you know, it‘s been said a few times, perhaps a little ironically, that it could be a short conversation tomorrow. But, you know, the prince and the president are going to spend quite a bit of time together. And that‘s giving some pride to the Britons here.
COSBY: Who else is going to be at the dinner? Because a lot of us thought it might be a state dinner, sort of all the gallantry, all the elegance that we saw 20 years ago. Remember the famous photo of Diana dancing there at the White House, the Reagans there on hand?
What is the mood going to be like? And who else is going to be attending tomorrow?
MOORE: Well, I think they recognize they‘re never going to be able to duplicate that famous moment you‘re seeing there, the 1985 moment when the late Princess Diana took to the White House dance floor with John Travolta. They‘re not going to try and even get close to that.
So it‘s going to be a lower key, a more low-profile event. But it‘s an attempt to try and reestablish the links and re-enforce the links between Britain and the United States, trying to make sure that that great bond gets ever more secure.
But, you know, there‘s a recognition that the Reagan White House is no longer there. This is a president now who likes his early nights and who really doesn‘t share the prince‘s concerns, perhaps, on the global warming front. So it‘s going to be an interesting occasion. I‘d love to be in the Oval Office to hear what dialogue they‘re going to have.
But, certainly, the prince is keen to make his points tomorrow. How much of a detailed policy discussion they have, Rita, we‘ll have to wait to see.
COSBY: Of course. It would be interesting to be able to listen in on that one. Thank you so much, Robert. We appreciate it.
So what are Prince Charles and Camilla saying tonight about their visit? “New York Post” columnist Richard Johnson just talked to the royal couple, I understand, just recently. He joins us now live on the phone with the royal scoop.
Richard, what did they say to you?
RICHARD JOHNSON, “NEW YORK POST” COLUMNIST: Well, you know, it‘s really just small talk. But they‘re very charming. And they‘re very warm. And they seem very relaxed. And I think that most of the people at the party at the Museum of Modern Art were thoroughly thrilled to meet them and to just be in the same room with them and to get a little face time with them.
COSBY: And what did you say to them?
JOHNSON: Well, I was introduced to Charles, you know, as a reporter for the “New York Post” who does the “Page Six” column. He goes, “How do you fill that column every day?” And I said, “Well, you know, it would be easier if you‘d come to visit New York more often.”
And he laughed. And that was about it. And then I was chatting a little bit with Camilla. She was talking to somebody else. And she was sort of praising Americans as being less reserved than the British and more generous with compliments and praise.
COSBY: And, Richard, do they seem at ease with the crowd, dealing with all these sort of different New York personalities?
JOHNSON: I was talking to a guy named Peter Brown, who has known Charles for many years. And he said that he was always trying to convince Charles to come to New York. And they actually would plan the trip every year. And then, every year, Charles would cancel, because he was afraid of the reception that he would get.
And I think after tonight he realized that it was a wrong move, because people here in New York are much—I think, you know, I think he‘s probably more popular here than he might be in London.
COSBY: Well, it certainly seems so. And it sounds like—in fact, we‘re looking at some pictures—quite a crowd. It looks like a lot of onlookers, too, just, you know, average citizens coming out to see royalty.
JOHNSON: You know what was interesting we...
COSBY: Yes, go ahead, real quick, Richard.
JOHNSON: ... was seeing these high-society people sort of jockeying for position just to meet them. It was like a high-society scrum.
COSBY: We like to see that. We like to see them fighting for the position.
(LAUGHTER)
Richard, thank you very much. A lucky guy got to talk to the royals.
JOHNSON: My pleasure.
COSBY: Well, the emotional part of this trip was certainly the royals couple—their first stop was Ground Zero. That‘s where 67 British citizens died on 9/11.
They visited with families who lost their loved ones on that day and also dedicated a memorial garden to the victims.
We‘re joined now by Camilla Hellman. She‘s the president of the British Memorial Gardens, who‘s been working on this for a long time. And also Charles Wolf, his wife, Katherine, was killed in the north tower of the World Trade Center.
You know, Charles, it must have meant a lot for you to see them there today.
CHARLES WOLF, MET WITH PRINCE CHARLES TODAY: It certainly did. It was not my first time meeting his royal highness, Prince Charles. He reached out to the families of the British victims and invited us to his country home in Highgrove in the summer of 2003. So this is the second time I met him.
COSBY: Oh, so you actually went over there? You actually...
WOLF: Yes, I did.
COSBY: What was that like?
WOLF: It was wonderful. I mean, the man is so gracious. He‘s so gracious. He‘s so warm. And he absolutely just makes you feel—when you are standing there talking with him, you are one-on-one with him, and it‘s just the two of you.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: And what does it mean—you know, here is his first visit, you know, to the states in such a long time. We‘re looking at a picture of Camilla there. I love seeing you out of frame there. That was great.
But here you are. You know, and he comes to see this spot, this sacred ground.
WOLF: Well, I think it‘s wonderful. I mean, the garden—this British Memorial Garden is a wonderful thing that‘s being built. And it really is—it‘s honoring the 67 British victims. But it‘s already exemplifying the strong ties between Britain and America.
And the fact that he came here, it shows how much he thinks of this and his respect. And like I said before, he‘s reached out to the families. Remember, his uncle was killed by terrorists. And so he has a special feeling for that. And it shows. It really, really does show.
COSBY: You know, Camilla, before the break, you were saying that, you know, it seemed like he was really touched by the visit to the gardens. What does it mean for you, after all this hard work? You and I talked about the gardens how many years ago now? It‘s been a number of years.
CAMILLA HELLMAN, BRITISH MEMORIAL GARDEN PRESIDENT: Two years ago, yes, right at the beginning when we were just starting. But he‘s been a very active patron to us. He‘s patron of the garden.
And the gardeners who won the competition to design the British Memorial Garden at Hanover Square are the Bannerman. And they‘ve done a lot of work for him in at Highgrove. So he loves their work and what they stand for.
And so he‘s been very involved and aware of the design and the progress of the project. So the visit today, when he came and he dedicated this wonderful stone, is a permanent reminder of the visit and of his involvement with it.
And I think it really showed—it really understands the message of the garden, which is this historic relationship.
COSBY: He seemed like he truly was moved by the event. And you even saw some of the shots of Camilla. Did you feel sort of the equal depth of both of them?
HELLMAN: Oh, yes. They were very connected to the whole thing. And they spent so much one-on-one time with everybody, didn‘t they, Charles? It was wonderful.
WOLF: They really did. I mean, Camilla is her own person. She‘s not...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Did you like her? What is she like?
WOLF: She‘s not trying to be a Diana.
HELLMAN: She‘s relaxed.
WOLF: Camilla is—yes. And she‘s an incredible support for Charles. That‘s the sense I got, because my Katherine was—she was the type of person, she was a support-type person.
You know, I was the one that was out there in front and she was in the back supporting me. You know, and she was fabulous at that. And that‘s the sense that I get out of Camilla, that she‘s there to be behind her man.
HELLMAN: But they went into the group today taking on separate parts of the room. They didn‘t—she did not go alongside him, working through everybody.—
COSBY: She was comfortable with kind of doing her own thing?
HELLMAN: She went off. So we divided the room. And they worked.
And so they managed to speak to so many people. It was wonderful.
COSBY: What a great day. And thank you both for sharing it. And what a great tribute to your wife and all those others there. Thank you very much.
WOLF: Thank you for having us.
HELLMAN: Thank you very much.
COSBY: Both of you, what a great trip. I know you worked hard.
HELLMAN: Working hard, but (INAUDIBLE) thank you.
COSBY: Thank you very much.
And still ahead, everybody, Prince William is known to be well-adjusted. And Prince Harry is known to play around. Will either of them be ready to play the same role as their father?
And speaking of next in line, what‘s happening to Camilla Parker Bowles‘ children? Will they ever be put in the same spotlight? What‘s ahead for them? Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: So what does the future hold for Charles and Camilla and, for that matter, the next generation of royalty, Prince William and Prince Harry? And the newest members of the kin, Camilla‘s children Tom and Laura Parker Bowles.
We‘re joined once again by ITV correspondent Robert Moore, also humorist Martin Lewis, and also former Buckingham Palace spokesman Dickey Arbiter.
Dickey, I want to start with Camilla Parker Bowles‘s. We don‘t know too much—the only thing I was reading—what was it, her son got in trouble for drugs at some point. There‘s a little controversy there, too, right?
DICKIE ARBITER, FORMER BUCKINGHAM PALACE SPOKESMAN: Yes, he got into trouble sometime ago, sort of on the cannabis kick. But he‘s kicked it. And he now is sort of respected writer on food in newspapers and magazines over here.
I think we‘ve got to move those two quite away. They‘re not royalty.
The stepfather happens to be the Prince of Wales, but they‘re not royalty.
They‘re very far removed.
Laura has a job in her own right. So does Tom. And they don‘t do anything on the royal front. On the other hand, you‘ve got William and Harry who very much are royalty. And as you rightly say, they‘re the next generation.
COSBY: You know, talk about both of the guys, if we could, Robert, because both of them are in the military. I understand—what is it, Harry is just joining. You got both of them—or actually William was just joining, I think.
But both of these guys, you know, very much, you know, trying to do the right thing, but then they stumble a little bit. Let‘s not forget about Harry, if we can show this picture about Harry—I‘ll never forget the Nazi decor. Then there was this question on whether he had a tattoo or not.
What is going with these guys, Robert?
MOORE: Well, you know, desperately unfortunate images and ones for which, you know, he has now apologized. But, you know, I guess many people in Britain relate to that. They know that, you know, growing up under sort of the media scrutiny is very, very tough. And there are going to be, as you put it, stumbles along the way.
So, you know, I think there‘s an empathy, a sympathy there, and a recognition perhaps that the media has been perhaps too harsh on them in the past. And now, I think, you know, let‘s look at this particular visit by the duchess of Cornwall, by Camilla and by the prince of Wales. You know, so far, so good.
This is going well. And I think although there‘ll be cynicism amongst the London tabloids about it, you know, I think the royal family will take some comfort that in the opening hours of this inaugural foreign trip by Camilla, it‘s gone well.
COSBY: Yes, it definitely has, it seems. And we‘re just showing pictures. We‘re looking at shots now. Lots of folks out there to cheer them on.
Martin, what‘s ahead for the next generation of royals, William and Harry?
LEWIS: Well, you know, I think you‘ve got to say in fairness to them that it‘s a very, very tough job. I mean, they‘re born forced to live in absolute luxurious circumstances, surrounded by flunkies, all at the taxpayers‘ expense.
And then the added pain of basically their job is to sit around waiting for their father to die in about 60 or 70 years so that they might have a job.
Now, this is a rather difficult life for them. And I think you should express some sympathy for them.
Now, Prince William, of course, has a future, because he has the high cheek bones, and the blond hair, and the good looks. And since they seem to be keeping the James Bond franchise going, I‘m thinking in about 10 or 15 years he could become the next James Bond, but one.
And, of course, Prince Harry, with his penchant for dressing up as a Nazi, he could be a bad guy in movies. So I think there is a future for them in movies.
COSBY: Dickie, what‘s the future for them, as you see it?
ARBITER: Well, the future is quite rosy for them. I take issue there. They‘re not kept by the taxpayers. They‘re kept by the duchy of Cornwall, which has nothing to do with the taxpayers.
And they‘re not surrounded by flunkies. In fact, I suppose I was one of those flunkies one day, and I objected to the use of that name.
But their future is good. Harry is in the army. He‘s at the Royal Military Academy, which is akin to your West Point. He‘s been there since May. He‘s still got a few months to do. William goes there in January. And he, one day, when his father dies, will become commander-in-chief. And he...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: And, Dickie, is he going to get married? Is he going to marry this woman that he‘s been seeing?
ARBITER: Oh, goodness me, gosh. He‘s only 23, for god‘s sake. You know, give him a chance to grow up. He‘ll probably have lots of girlfriends.
They‘re very close. They shared a house together when they were both at St. Andrews. And they are seeing each other. But he‘s always said that he probably won‘t get married until he‘s nearer 30. And that‘s another seven years to go.
And, hopefully, there‘ll be a lot more girlfriends on the way there.
COSBY: Yes, a lot can happen in seven years. Robert, what kind of relationship, as you understand it, do the boys have with Camilla? Have things warmed up? Have they accepted her over time?
MOORE: Well, they certainly have gone on the record in recent weeks saying that they, you know, they have accepted her and they, you know, are very happy that their father is now more sort of evidently a happy man himself.
So, yes, they‘ve reflected that. And, you know, the big fear, I think, in particularly in regards to this visit, is that it was going to be met by public indifference. That was the concern.
And, yet, you know, I was reporting on it from New York earlier today.
And clearly, there were crowds there. Clearly there was curiosity. Clearly it‘s done something in terms of building up and reestablishing, you know, links between New York and the royal family.
So, you know, as I say, so far, so good. The concern, as Prince Charles put it to that CBS “60 Minutes” program, was that he was going to be a question of relevance. And, you know, you look at the images, you look at his trip down to New Orleans later in the week, and you have to say, he‘s looking relevant.
COSBY: Martin, really quick to get your final thoughts. Are they sort of, you know, bringing things up—I mean, look, it was very dignified today, beautiful turnout, did some beautiful things. Is it turning it around for them?
LEWIS: They‘re certainly doing the best they can. And in fairness to them, because of the good deeds and charity that Prince Charles does, I think you have to give them full marks.
But in terms of a great export for Britain, I think you would have to say that the Osbournes are at least a more functional family than the British royal family.
COSBY: And, Dickie, I‘m going to give you the last five seconds. You get to respond.
ARBITER: Well, I think the royal family are very functional. The prince of Wales and the duchess of Cornwall are there because the government wants them there representing U.K.
COSBY: All right, everybody. Thank you very much. It‘s really interesting. Lots of fun having all three of you.
And still ahead on this special coverage of the royal visit, Prince Charles gets a big American welcome in New York. What is it like performing for a prince? We‘re going to meet the marching band who just wrapped up their evening with the royalty. There they are. They‘re ready. They‘re coming up next. You can see them waving. They‘re coming up right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: And it‘s a performance fit for a prince. A high school jazz ensemble just wrapped up playing for Prince Charles and Camilla at their special reception tonight in Manhattan. And we‘re joined now live by Curtis High School band coordinator Ray Scro, and also two members—there‘s lots of them around there—but two key members we‘re going to be talking to in the ensemble, Daniel Fagen and Cassie Fevello.
First, let me start with you, Ray. You‘re the head guy there in the group. What was it like to perform for royalty?
RAY SCRO, CURTIS HIGH SCHOOL BAND COORDINATOR: It was a great honor.
COSBY: What did you guys play? How many songs did you perform?
SCRO: Well, we played for two hours. We must have played maybe...
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: Two hours?
SCRO: Yes.
COSBY: Oh, my gosh. How many different songs did you perform?
SCRO: Oh, it was at least a dozen songs. We actually had to repeat a few.
COSBY: That is great. And what was the reaction, Ray, from the royal couple?
SCRO: Well, they seemed to like it. They were very nice. They came up and they spoke to all of the kids individually and were very gracious. It was quite an honor.
COSBY: And, Ray, what‘s the background, why they picked—do they have a love of jazz?
SCRO: Oh, I‘m not sure why they picked. We were recommended by the mayor‘s office, because we do a lot of performances at Gracie Mansion, so that probably made a difference in their choice of us.
COSBY: Let me bring in Daniel and Cassie. Let me bring in Daniel first. What was it like to perform, you know, for the prince?
CASSIE FEVELLO, CURTIS HIGH SCHOOL JAZZ ENSEMBLE: I was really nervous before we came here. But when we got there, it was, like, really relaxed. And we had a lot of fun.
COSBY: And what did they say to you? We just heard from your teacher that they actually went up to each one of you and talked to you. What did they say to you, and what did you say to them?
DANIEL FAGEN, CURTIS HIGH SCHOOL JAZZ ENSEMBLE: Prince Charles approached me. And he was just kind of like, “Oh, what was that you guys were playing? I liked it.” So, I mean, that was kind of cool.
COSBY: And, Cassie, what did they say to you? What words did you exchange with them?
FEVELLO: Camilla was talking a lot. She just said that we did a great job. And she asked us how long everybody‘s been playing an instrument or—things like that.
COSBY: Wow. And, you know, Daniel, you obviously—both of you guys are very young. You‘re in high school. But, Daniel, no matter where you go in your career, is this probably going to be the highlight for you?
FAGEN: It‘s definitely going to be up there. I don‘t know if there‘s much that can top this. It‘s pretty big.
COSBY: And, Cassie, are all of your friends totally jealous?
FEVELLO: Were my what?
COSBY: All your friends totally jealous?
FEVELLO: They probably are jealous.
(LAUGHTER)
SCRO: If they see this tonight, probably.
FEVELLO: If they see this, I would probably be jealous, too.
COSBY: And now, you guys met Sting, too, is that right?
FAGEN: Yes.
SCRO: Yes.
COSBY: You guys got it all tonight. I am totally jealous. I‘m jealous. How‘s that? Thank you, all of you. And congratulations very, very much.
SCRO: Thank you very much.
FAGEN: Thank you.
FEVELLO: Thank you.
COSBY: Two hours performing for the royal couple. Thank you very much. Everybody, we‘re going to be right back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: And, everybody, coming up tomorrow night on LIVE & DIRECT, it‘s going to be the first part of our special series, “Murder on the Border.” I just got back from an incredible trip, riding along with authorities who are just trying to keep our country‘s borders safe from drug lords and also terrorists.
They took me along for a dangerous nighttime mission. You can see me there, had to wear a bullet-proof vest. They were heavily armed.
Plus, more than a dozen Americans missing from the border. Did Mexican police have anything to do with their kidnappings? That is all tomorrow night. We‘re going to have a stunning series this week. I hope that you will tune in.
And that does it for me tonight, everybody. I‘m Rita Cosby. Thank you so much for watching. Stay tuned, because “SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY” starts right now, with my pal, Joe Scarborough—Joe?
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Rita, by the way, I‘ll tell you, that special report looks fascinating. I‘ve talked to family members who have lost loved ones across the border, teenagers, women in their young twenties. It is such a tragic situation. I know that‘s going to be a great show. I‘m looking forward to it.
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