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Meet the Press - October 2, 2016

Meet the Press - October 2, 2016

CHUCK TODD:

This Sunday, Trump's terrible week, a rough debate, 3:00 AM tweets, and an obsession with the 1996 Miss Universe.

DONALD TRUMP:

She was the winner, and, you know, she gained a massive amount of weight, and it was a real problem.

CHUCK TODD:

And now a report that Trump could have avoided paying taxes for 18 years. I'll talk to Trump supporter Rudy Giuliani and Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook. Plus how a lead opinion has lined up against Donald Trump, but to what effect? I'll talk to anti-establishment voices from the left and right, Michael Moore and Glenn Beck. Also, the VP debate, how much will Tuesday's Pence-Kaine face-off matter? And live from New York, it's SNL.

KATE MCKINNON (AS HILLARY CLINTON):

He hasn't released his tax returns, which means he's either not that rich--

ALEC BALDWIN (AS DONALD TRUMP):

Wrong.

KATE MCKINNON (AS HILLARY CLINTON):

--not that charitable--

ALEC BALDWIN (AS DONALD TRUMP):

Wrong.

KATE MCKINNON (AS HILLARY CLINTON):

--or he's never paid taxes in his life.

ALEC BALDWIN (AS DONALD TRUMP):

Warmer. (LAUGHTER)

CHUCK TODD:

Joining me for insight and analysis this Sunday morning are Amy Walter, editor of The Cook Political Report, Mark Halperin, managing editor of Bloomberg Politics, Maria Teresa Kumar, president and CEO of Voto Latino, and Rich Lowry, editor of The National Review. Welcome to Sunday, it's Meet the Press.

ANNOUNCER:From NBC News in Washington, this is Meet the Press, with Chuck Todd

CHUCK TODD:

Good Sunday morning. Surprise, it's October. Donald Trump's bad week may have just gotten a lot worse. Today's New York Times has a front-page exposé that Trump declared a loss of $916 million on his 1995 tax return, which means it could have allowed him to avoid paying federal income taxes on nearly a billion dollars' worth of income over an 18-year period, all legal, by the way.

The losses came from mismanagement of three casinos, his airline, and the Plaza Hotel in New York. The Times received the 1995 documents in the mail anonymously with a return address of Trump Tower. And his former accountant, who's now retired, verified them.

The Clinton campaign jumped on the news saying, quote, "There it is. This bombshell report reveals the colossal nature of Donald Trump's business failures..." Trump's campaign told The Times that Trump has paid hundreds of millions of dollars in state, local and federal taxes. And then Trump tweeted this, this morning: "I know our complex tax laws better than anyone who has ever run for president, and am the only one who can fix them." As you can see, no specific denial of anything in The Times report.

This news comes at the end of a week when Trump followed an unsteady and unfocused debate performance with a parade of outbursts on Twitter, on television and on the trail. And all came just as he was closing the gap with Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN TAPE)

DONALD TRUMP:

I don't even think she's loyal to Bill, if you want to know the truth. And really, folks, really? Why should she be, right?

CHUCK TODD:

Just when he looks competitive, Trump veers off message.

DONALD TRUMP:

That person was a Miss Universe person, and she was the worst we ever had. The worst.

CHUCK TODD:

Trump's inability to control his own emotions is standing between himself and the presidency.

DONALD TRUMP:

What's happened to our jobs--

CHUCK TODD:

Instead of talking about jobs and trade, Clinton's e-mail controversy, or admit he's spinning out of control, Trump spent five days this week attacking 1996 Miss Universe winner Alicia Machado.

NATALIE MORALES:

What were the names that he called you?

ALICIA MACHADO:

Miss Piggy, Miss Housekeeping, Miss Eating Machine.

DONALD TRUMP:

She was the winner and, you know, she gained a massive amount of weight. And it was a real problem.

CHUCK TODD:

When the controversy was dying down, it was Trump who kept it alive in a 3:00AM Tweet storm. "Did crooked Hillary help disgusting (check out sex tape and past) Alicia M become a U.S. citizen so she could use her in the debate?"

SEC. HILLARY CLINTON:

His latest Twitter meltdown is unhinged, even for him.

CHUCK TODD:

Tony Schwartz was Trump's ghostwriter for his 1987 memoir The Art of the Deal.

TONY SCHWARTZ:

He's like an untrained Rottweiler. And every time they let him off his leash, he ends up biting someone and putting himself in jeopardy.

CHUCK TODD:

Every scientific poll shows Trump lost Monday's debate. But Trump isn't buying it.

DONALD TRUMP:

Every single online poll said we won, which is great.

TONY SCHWARTZ:

From very early in his life with his father, and later when his mentor became Roy Cohn, the advice was the same, which is never surrender, no matter what.

CHUCK TODD:

But Trump is acting as if he lost, attacking the Clinton's marital history in an interview with The New York Times, saying, quote, "She's nasty, but I can be nastier than she ever can be."

SEC. HILLARY CLINTON:

Look, he can say whatever he wants to say.

CHUCK TODD:

Trump supporters embrace the idea of a flawed messenger who they say will shake up Washington. But even they had become skeptical.

FEMALE TRUMP SUPPORTER #1:

I wish he would talk about everything that he's gonna change, and that's it, and stop all this little petty stuff, you know. A beauty queen from how many years ago?

FEMALE TRUMP SUPPORTER #2:

Twenty.

FEMALE TRUMP SUPPORTER #1:

I mean really.

CHUCK TODD:

Even Trump's surrogates say Trump will lose if he does not reign himself in.

NEWT GINGRICH:

This last week, I think, has been frankly a lost week, a week which has hurt him, which has shaken his own supporters. And you can't tweet at 3:00 in the morning, period. There's no excuse ever, not if you're going to be president of the United States.

(END TAPE)

CHUCK TODD:

Joining me now is the former mayor of New York City and a top advisor to Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani. Mr. Mayor, welcome back to the show.

RUDY GIULIANI:

Thank you very much, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

Let me get you to respond to Newt Gingrich there. He basically said this has been a lost week. Do you disagree with that?

RUDY GIULIANI:

Yeah, I disagree with that. I think that Donald Trump did really well in the debate. I think he accomplished what he had to accomplish, which is he showed that he understands the economy better than Hillary Clinton. She demonstrated she has no understanding of the economy at all. She was just completely lost in her answer to how we're going to bring back jobs in America is just to tax people more, which, of course, is the very reason they've been driven out of America. And I thought, on foreign policy, he displayed a better understanding of Islamic radical terrorism. Now--

CHUCK TODD:

That's not what-- Mr. Mayor, that's not what you thought on Monday. On Monday, you tweeted, "This debate was not Trump's best, but there are--

RUDY GIULIANI:

I didn't--

CHUCK TODD:

--still two more."

RUDY GIULIANI:

I didn't tweet that. That's not my tweet.

CHUCK TODD:

Okay. Fair enough.

RUDY GIULIANI:

My-- that--

CHUCK TODD:Fair enough.

RUDY GIULIANI:

I never said that. That's somebody pretending to be me. There are about four of them out there that pretend to be me.

CHUCK TODD:

Okay. So you thought everything went just hunky dory on Monday night? You thought that was the best he could do?

RUDY GIULIANI:

No. I think he can do better. I think he can do a lot better. I think that there-- look, we're all debaters, and we all-- I'm a lawyer, so I can always find four or five more things you could have done. I thought, for example, when she brought up cyber security, it was an excellent chance to point out how she's been the worst violator of cyber security so far in the history of the United States. She's exposed more of our top secret documents than any--

CHUCK TODD:

Right.

RUDY GIULIANI:

--Secretary of State in history. There are-- If I were to analyze that debate, I would say he won it. And then there were two or three opportunities where he could have delivered a knockout blow and he didn't take them.

CHUCK TODD:

Let me go to, go ahead finish your thought--

RUDY GIULIANI:

But we have more debates coming, so--

CHUCK TODD:

Fair enough. Let me ask you about The New York Times story this morning where now there is some evidence that he legally avoided paying federal income taxes on almost a billion dollars' worth of income because of losses he attained in his businesses. Is it important now for Donald Trump to release his tax returns? Many even if his supporters, including a guy like Roger Stone, even thinks he ought to release his tax returns.

RUDY GIULIANI:

Well, you know, this points out one of the reasons why releasing tax returns is so bad. The New York Times writes this long story. And then somewhere around paragraph 18 they point out there was no wrongdoing. Now, people have a hard time understanding how taxes work.

If Donald Trump hadn't taken those losses, he could have been sued by his investors. He could have been sued by his business partners. When I run a business, and I run a business, if I don't take advantage of the five deductions that are available to me, even if you think those deductions are unfair, then I've violated my fiduciary duty. So I have clients, and I have clients that take losses like that, and I advise them, "You have to take those losses. Otherwise, you're not doing your job."

CHUCK TODD:

But the very people--

RUDY GIULIANI:

What he--

CHUCK TODD:

The very people he wants to work for, when they basically fail at their jobs, or their job goes away, you know, they don't have this kind of ability. I mean this is basically a deduction that benefits wealthy businessmen. He failed at his businesses. Those first three businesses were failures. And then he was able to get a tax break for that failure on the next billion dollars of income. Look, it's all legal. Should it be?

RUDY GIULIANI:

That's a good question. But it is, and it was, and we're talking about 21 years ago. And if he didn't take advantage of it, he would have been sued. And that's why maybe somebody doesn't want to put out their tax returns, because somebody will distort it that way. I mean the reality is he's a genius. What he did was he took advantage--

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

RUDY GIULIANI:

-of something that could save his enterprise. And he did something we admire in America, he came back. The Art of the Deal is all about that. He talks about it. So did Steve Jobs. So did Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill was--

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

RUDY GIULIANI:

--thrown out of politics twice and came back. Great men have big failures.

CHUCK TODD:

All right.

RUDY GIULIANI:

And then they take those failures and they turn them into great results. I'd rather have a genius like Donald Trump running this country than someone like Hillary Clinton. And all she seems to do--

CHUCK TODD:

So you think it's--

RUDY GIULIANI:

--is to produce jobs for the F.B.I..

CHUCK TODD:

You think it's a good example to avoid-- to basically being able to avoid paying federal taxes, to take advantage of loopholes where somebody wealthy can avoid paying actual federal taxes. I understand that it's legal. And we--

RUDY GIULIANI:

Look.

CHUCK TODD:

--debating whether it should be. But is this the right thing we should have in a president?

RUDY GIULIANI:

Well first of all, a lot of the people that are poor take advantage of loopholes and pay no taxes. Those are loopholes, also, and they pay no taxes. And also, no matter who you are, if you have a $30 operating loss, you can carry it forward to the next year. And poor people do take advantage of that, also.

Now, do I think the tax code should be simplified? Absolutely. Will he do away with things like this? He probably is better positioned than anyone to figure out how to do away with it, because he understands the tax code better than anyone else. I'd rather have a genius who understands the tax code--

CHUCK TODD:

Right.

RUDY GIULIANI:

--that wants to reform it. He's the one who's against giving hedge fund guys the big break they get--

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

RUDY GIULIANI:

--in paying only 15 percent tax. So you've got to figure out who you're working for. There, he was working for private interests.

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

RUDY GIULIANI:

He has to take advantage of those rules, no wrongdoing.

CHUCK TODD:

Right.

RUDY GIULIANI:

If he were to-- if he can have these kinds of results for us in America, we wouldn't be having 1.5 percent recovery, we'd be having five percent recovery.

CHUCK TODD:

All right.

RUDY GIULIANI:

Plus, he did pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes, state taxes, local taxes.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, we don't know this until--

RUDY GIULIANI:

--excise taxes.

CHUCK TODD:

How do we know this without him releasing his tax returns?

RUDY GIULIANI:

Because if he didn't, he'd be in jail. That's why. Because he'd be sitting behind bars if he didn't pay taxes, if he didn't pay sales tax, if he didn't pay excise tax, if he didn't--

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

RUDY GIULIANI:

--if he didn't pay property tax.

CHUCK TODD:

I understand that. But we don't know how much--

RUDY GIULIANI:

He'd be sitting in jail.

CHUCK TODD:

We don't know how much it was.

RUDY GIULIANI:All you have to do--

CHUCK TODD:

We only can take your word for it.

RUDY GIULIANI:

All you have to do is look at his--

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

RUDY GIULIANI:

--104-page financial disclosure form. Look at the property--

CHUCK TODD:

All right.

RUDY GIULIANI:

--that he has. Figure out what the tax rate is in that community. You can figure out what he paid. And since they--

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

RUDY GIULIANI:

--didn't put him in jail, I can guarantee you he paid it.

CHUCK TODD:

Before I let you go, what did you mean when you talked about Monica Lewinsky and Hillary Clinton that if she didn't know what Bill Clinton was doing, she's too stupid to be president?

RUDY GIULIANI:

What I meant was, after the long, long history of Bill Clinton, Gennifer Flowers, Juanita Broaddrick, I don't know, 27 people making claims against him, including a settlement with one of them were it was obviously true, when she first heard about Monica Lewinksy, to pretend for five or six months that it was false--

CHUCK TODD:

So she was wrong to stand by her husband?

RUDY GIULIANI:

No, she was wrong to attack the victim. The woman who says--

CHUCK TODD:

Are you the right person to level this charge?

RUDY GIULIANI:

Yeah. I'm the right person to level this charge, because I've never made such a charge, and I've prosecuted people who've committed rape.

CHUCK TODD:

But your past, you have your own infidelities, sir.

RUDY GIULIANI:

Well, everybody does. And I'm a Roman Catholic, and I confess those things to my priest. But I've never-- I've never ever attacked someone who's been the victim--

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

RUDY GIULIANI:

--who's been the victim of sexual abuse. Not only that, I've put people in jail who've been the victim of sexual abuse.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, all right. Well--

RUDY GIULIANI:

And I've never participated in that. And I think your bringing up my personal life really is kind of irrelevant to what Hillary Clinton did. She's running for president, I'm not. A woman who pretends to be--

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

RUDY GIULIANI:

--a feminist shouldn't be taking money from countries where--

CHUCK TODD:

All right, Mr. Mayor.

RUDY GIULIANI:

--where women are stoned, where women are killed for adultery, where women can't drive, she's taken hundreds of millions of dollars from those countries.

CHUCK TODD:

All right, Mr. Mayor, I will leave it there.

RUDY GIULIANI:

Thank you.

CHUCK TODD:

Appreciate you coming on and sharing your views.

RUDY GIULIANI:

Thank you.

CHUCK TODD:

Joining me now from the other side, Hillary Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook. Mr. Mook, welcome to the show.

ROBBY MOOK:

Good morning.

CHUCK TODD:

I want to play a new ad that the Trump campaign is hitting on Hillary Clinton and get you to respond to it on the other side.

(BEGIN TAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON:

Why aren't I fifty points ahead, you might ask.

MALE NARRATOR:

Maybe it's because the director of the F.B.I. said you lied about your e-mail.

JAMES COMEY:

There was classified material e-mailed.

MALE NARRATOR:

Or maybe it's because your policies have allowed ISIS and terrorism to spread. Or maybe it's because you call Americans deplorable.

(END TAPE)

CHUCK TODD:

So it's that last part, the "deplorable," and, and everything they put together in that ad, anything in that ad that tells you it's not an effective hit on Secretary Clinton?

ROBBY MOOK:

Well, a lot of it simply isn't true. You know, the, the F.B.I. said that there was no wrongdoing that they would bring against Secretary Clinton. I think a lot of the people that stand by Donald Trump are deplorable. And the things that they say are deplorable.

You know, Trump has had a really bad week. He failed in the debate. He has spun out of control. Subsequent to that, insulting Alicia Machado. His 3:00 AM Tweet storm. You know, his campaign's just spinning out. They're grasping for anything that they can, that they can to, to throw mud back.

And Secretary Clinton's going to keep on the campaign trail, talking about how she's actually going to make a difference in people's lives. And, you know, this morning, we see Donald Trump is having to defend the fact that he may not have paid taxes for 20 years, which is something most Americans don't have the option to do.

CHUCK TODD:

Do--

ROBBY MOOK:

So we're just going to stay focused on how she's going to create jobs--

CHUCK TODD:

But are you--

ROBBY MOOK:

--and get wages rising.

CHUCK TODD:

Are you concerned-- you know, with everything that has come out on Donald Trump, all of the different hits that have come out on Donald Trump, and yet, you're not 50 points ahead. If anything, this is a close race. This-- he does have a path to 270. He can win. Everything that's happened, and he can still win. Is that a reflection on what the country thinks of Hillary Clinton?

ROBBY MOOK:

No, I think it's a reflection that the presidential campaign process is competitive. Our country, fortunately or unfortunately, is very polarized right now. People fall into their different camps. And people are, are concerned. And they, they want to see change.

But what's becoming clear, particularly since this debate, is that Donald Trump isn't going to present that change in any way whatsoever. We talk about the rigged system out there. Donald Trump embodies that. The idea that he didn't have to pay taxes for 20 years, or at least that's what The New York Times is telling us. So we feel very good about where we are. But this will be competitive up until the end, and we're going to have to work hard.

CHUCK TODD:

Are-- You guys are struggling to win over voters under the age of 30. New audio has come out from a fundraiser from earlier this year when Secretary Clinton was running against Bernie Sanders. And she described some of Sanders' supporters as kids that essentially are still living in their parents' basement. Was that meant to be a shot at Sanders' supporters?

ROBBY MOOK:

Well, Chuck, actually, I'm really glad you asked this question. And I really encourage everybody to listen to that full audio. The, the original piece that came out on it had to have the headline changed because it completely mischaracterized what she was talking about. She was talking about young people that she'd met who were frustrated that they graduated from college and went into an economy where they couldn't find the job they wanted or expected.

CHUCK TODD:

Didn't help that the folks laughed when she said that at the fundraiser. It made it seem like a pejorative.

ROBBY MOOK:

Well, when I listened to it, I didn't hear it that way at all. I heard her reflecting the things that she's hearing when she's out campaigning. And in fact, of these two candidates, she's the only one who's presented a real plan to--

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

ROBBY MOOK:

--create jobs and a real plan to help families afford college. She and Bernie Sanders worked together--

CHUCK TODD:

All right.

ROBBY MOOK:

--on a new college compact that will create tuition-free education for people and families earning under $125,000 a year.

CHUCK TODD:

Very quickly, I know you're not pulling out of Ohio. But it's clear--

ROBBY MOOK:

No, not at all.

CHUCK TODD:

-- it's clear that the numbers aren't, aren't great. Do you view Ohio as a must-win state anymore?

ROBBY MOOK:

I-- I actually just don't even accept that premise. Ohio's a battleground state. I think either candidate can win it. We're working incredibly hard. I think Secretary Clinton can win it. And we're going, we're going to keep working to make sure that happens.

CHUCK TODD:

All right. Robby Mook, campaign manager for Hillary Clinton, I will--

ROBBY MOOK:

Thanks, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

--leave it there. Coming up, anti-establishment opinion is trumping the elites this campaign season. I'm going to be joined by filmmaker Michael Moore on the left and broadcaster Glenn Beck from the right to talk about it. And later, they're back, Saturday Night Live takes on the 2016 campaign.

(BEGIN TAPE)

KATE MCKINNON (AS HILLARY CLINTON):

He hasn't released his tax returns, which means he's either not that rich--

ALEC BALDWIN (AS DONALD TRUMP):

Wrong.

KATE MCKINNON (AS HILLARY CLINTON):

--not that charitable--

ALEC BALDWIN (AS DONALD TRUMP):

Wrong.

KATE MCKINNON (AS HILLARY CLINTON):

--or he's never paid taxes in his life.

ALEC BALDWIN (AS DONALD TRUMP):

Warmer.

(END TAPE)

***COMMERCIAL BREAK***

CHUCK TODD:

Welcome back. The panel is here with us: Rich Lowry, editor of The National Review, Maria Teresa Kumar, president and CEO of Voto Latino, Amy Walter, editor of The Cook Political Report, and Mark Halperin, managing editor of Bloomberg Politics. Little correction here, Rudy Giuliani was right, that was a parody account that we got that. What Rudy Giuliani said the night of the debate was he did think, as he clarified, and that night he said, "I would skip the next debates, if I were Trump." That is the correct aspect of Rudy Giuliani. Mark Halperin, tax returns. What we have this morning. How bombshell-y is it?

MARK HALPERIN:

It's the first of many October surprises. The Times chose to publish on October 1st. And I think we'll see more from both of them. I don't know if this is as big a deal as The Times has blown it up to be. I don't know that we learned anything new. We knew the guy took tons of deductions. They don't know for a fact he didn't pay federal taxes. The story says he could not, he might not have. And I think Americans are going to-- the Clinton campaign will continue to press on it. Americans who think this is a bad thing that he won't release his returns I think will continue to go for it. But I don't think it's some dominant factor. And I don't think it'll change the race very much.

CHUCK TODD:

Rich, how'd you think of Rudy defending it as smart?

RICH LOWRY:

Well, I wouldn't go with the "poor people exploit the tax system too," argument. But he--

CHUCK TODD:

Do you think that was a mistake? I was interested in that--

RICH LOWRY:

But did come around to the "he knows the system, therefore he can fix it." And that argument has, for Trump, had much more traction than I would have thought. "Look, I exploited a rigged system and I was inside it, therefore I can fix it." And that argument is more intuitive to people than I would have thought.

CHUCK TODD:

It--He had said that the whole time. The Times didn't change the narrative of what many people already--

AMY WALTER::

Already believed, right.

CHUCK TODD:

--believed.

AMY WALTER:

This is already baked in. I think those are the points here, they're already baked into your perceptions of who Donald Trump is. The question in my mind isn't, "Is this a bombshell report?" It's, "How does Trump react to it as we go forward?" And as we've seen in the history of certainly this week, but in the history of this campaign, it's Donald Trump's reaction to difficult stories or difficult situations that gets him in trouble. All right?

The story in and of itself, he can pivot off of this and make it about the rigged system and make it about that he's the only one who's going to change the system. Or is he going to get caught up in this and spin his wheels and go off topic?

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:

Oh, and I think that's the thing. This whole week has just been drip, drip, drip. He could have actually avoided this whole thing with the taxes had he just showed it. Because no one is surprised the fact that he hasn't paid it. But I think there is some-- there is hypocrisy in the fact that he keeps talking about that we don't have good education, that we don't have infrastruc-- you know, deteriorating infrastructure. And he keeps talking about undocumented immigrants. Undocumented immigrants pay $12 billion of taxes every single year. They pay their taxes. They have skin in the game. He is not contributing to a system that he says he's going to go in and fix.

CHUCK TODD:

What about, okay, if this is an-- I kind of think that, if you're the Clinton campaign, Mark, will you sit there and say, we miss the Machado story? Because it seemed to drive him crazier, in some ways, than even taxes.

MARK HALPERIN:

Right. Well, I don't know if that story is done. Look, just to be clear, I think his failure to release his returns and whether he paid taxes or not is a big problem for him. I just don't think it's a new big problem. It's an old new problem. Look, the Clinton campaign decided months ago, they had to pick their-- Donald Trump is a target-rich environment. What are we going after?

They decided, basically, on one thing, that he's not fit to be president, he doesn't have the right temperament, he's not someone who's great--is nice to people. The Machado story allowed them to go right to their message. This story does, to some extent, too. Because, as Amy suggested, he's set off. He's tweeting today, not about changing Washington, not about how Hillary Clinton's part of the problem, he's tweeting about his taxes. So I think this is another story they're happy with it, because it goes to the fact that he's so easily baited.

CHUCK TODD:

If they go the Monica route, I don't see--

AMY WALTER:I don't understand--

CHUCK TODD:

I don't understand it.

AMY WALTER:

I think that is a terrible--

CHUCK TODD:

Does anybody understand this?

RICH LOWRY:

Well, I think it's right that she was part of the defense against these women. And just given Bill's vulnerabilities, it was part of his political operation to discredit and basically smear these women when they got in the way. And a lot of them were telling the truth. But prosecuting that in a way that doesn't make it seem as though you're blaming Hillary for Bill's infidelities is going to be really difficult. And it opens up a can of worms for Trump and every surrogate who may have had problems in their marriage.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:

Well, and I think what he's been trying to do is basically open up his base. He needs Republican women to come in his camp. And going after a woman that basically said, "My marriage is important, my family is important," I mean that's really hard for him to face--

MARK HALPERIN:

The three people at the top of his campaign: Dave Bossie, Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway, have been talking about Bill Clinton's personal life for a quarter century. So it's no surprise that, as they look around to say what inspires us to say the Clintons shouldn't be back in the White House, it's no surprise that they would be tempted to turn to this.

CHUCK TODD:

Well. it does hit the 30 year old argument.

AMY WALTER:It hurts-- right. It reminds people--

CHUCK TODD:

--Meaning that like it reminds people they've been around.

AMY WALTER:

It reminds people of that. But the number one concern, this goes to what Mark said, too, when you talk to the Clinton campaign and others around them, the number one concern that voters have about Donald Trump is his temperament and his judgment. If he is going to get this campaign back on the rails, it's on judgment and temperament, not on this.

CHUCK TODD:

Okay. I'm gonna leave it there for a minute. When we come back, we've just heard a bunch of elite opinion right here, right? We're going to talk about the fact, elite opinion around the country is lining up behind Hillary Clinton. And this year, it doesn't seem to matter. From stage left, filmmaker Michael Moore, and from stage right, TV and radio's Glenn Beck will join me next on why that is.

***COMMERCIAL BREAK***

CHUCK TODD:

Welcome back. Elite opinion in the United States is lining up against Donald Trump in ways we've never seen before. Consider this: neither President George H.W. Bush or President George W. Bush, nor any member of the Bush family, is openly backing Trump. Not a single CEO of a Fortune 100 company has endorsed Trump. Eleven of them are backing Clinton.

Not one major newspaper has endorsed Trump, and some are endorsing a Democrat for the first time in over 100 years. Even conservative thought leaders like The National Review, The Weekly Standard and George Will are, in some form, anti-Trump, and in some cases, a few have become pro-Clinton.

And yet, Republican voters right now are ignoring establishment opinion. They're sticking with Trump. We're witnessing a withering away of the power of the elites. Joining me now this morning are two people who have bucked the establishment themselves. From the left, filmmaker Michael Moore, and in a few minutes, I'll talk from the right to broadcaster and founder of The Blaze, Glenn Beck. But joining me first is Mr. Moore. Michael, welcome back to the show, sir.

MICHAEL MOORE:

Thank you.

CHUCK TODD:

Let me start with something you wrote a few months ago. You believe Donald Trump is going to win this election. You believed it before the convention. And you wrote this: "From Green Bay to Pittsburgh...is the middle of England-- broken and depressed, struggling, the smoke stacks strewn across the countryside with the carcass of what we used to call the middle class, angry, embittered working and non-working people, who were lied to by the trickle-down of Reagan and abandoned by Democrats..." And I know after the debate you were, unlike many, you thought Trump was successful in what he needed to do. Explain.

MICHAEL MOORE:

Yes, I-- which I don't want him to win. Let's just make that clear. I-- I've been trying to say for months here, I live in Michigan. And, and across the Midwest, across the Rust Belt, I understand why a lot of people are angry. And they see Donald Trump as their human Molotov cocktail that they get to go into the voting booth on November 8th and throw him into a political system that has made their lives miserable.

And, and so I think, at the convention, I was worried, Democrats, the Clinton campaign, were all doing an end zone dance when they were only on the 50 yard line. And, and the celebrating after the debate-- everybody needs to have their game face on here and realize that Trump can win. He can pull this off. And, and everybody has to, has to be full force here. Otherwise, it's, it has a chance of happening. And I've lived long enough to know--

CHUCK TODD:Right.

MICHAEL MOORE:

-- where I've seen, you know, I never thought a B actor whose co-star was a chimpanzee would ever be president of the United States. Or, or George W. Bush, who was just completely not there himself, that he could ever get elected. Well, I take this seriously now. So I don't just-- Trump is not just comedy to me. I, I, I think that, that people--

CHUCK TODD:

Yeah.

MICHAEL MOORE:

--see that he is maybe their messenger. Even though they don't necessarily like him or agree with him so much, I think that they--

CHUCK TODD:

Do you--

MICHAEL MOORE:

--they love the idea of blowing up the system.

CHUCK TODD:

Do you think every time a newspaper editorial comes out and denounces Trump, and every time a former cabinet secretary in a Bush administration comes out and denounces Trump, you think that has a-- Do you think that backfires? You think it oddly reinforces Trump's message?

MICHAEL MOORE:

I think a lot of people who have seen their livelihood vaporized, who are no longer part of the middle class, who are struggling to survive, pay no attention anymore to what the media or the people in power-- they've lost all credibility, I think, with a lot, with a lot of people. I mean just take what's happened from how we got into the Iraq War.

Where was the media on that before the war? Where was The New York Times, for instance? Putting Judith Miller's stories concocting weapons of mass destruction on the front page of their paper. Where was the media while, while Wall Street was, was creating this crisis that was about to happen?

I mean so people don't trust the media. They don't listen to it, and for good reason, because the, the media has let them down. The, the rich and the powerful have let them down. They used to believe in that. They used to vote for the rich and powerful. And a lot of them aren't going to do that this time. And they, for some strange reason, see Donald Trump as their, as their means to get back--

CHUCK TODD:They--

MICHAEL MOORE:

--at, at, at this system.

CHUCK TODD:

Will they ever see Hillary Clinton as somebody that can change the system and make their lives better?

MICHAEL MOORE:

I hope so. I, I, I really--

CHUCK TODD:

But how does she do it? How does she convince them? Or do you think that her, she just carries too much establishment baggage?

MICHAEL MOORE:

Yeah. Well, yes and no. I mean look, she's also creating history here. We have a chance to elect the first woman president in this country. This rarely gets discussed anymore. But I think that-- I mean I ask, people say, "Well, I don't trust Hillary," or, "She's not trustworthy." And I'm like, "What did she ever do to you?" "Well-- " you know, it's like, "Did you, did you, you know, she was going to water your plants for you while you were gone for the weekend and she didn't?"

CHUCK TODD:

But how do Democrats--

MICHAEL MOORE:

--so she's not trustworthy?

CHUCK TODD:

But clearly--

MICHAEL MOORE:

I don't. What is this--

CHUCK TODD:

But clearly-- Democrats--

MICHAEL MOORE:

--knock on her--

CHUCK TODD:

--let them down, right? I mean is that the issue here, and she's--

MICHAEL MOORE:

The Democrats--

CHUCK TODD:

--just another Democrat and they don't trust them anymore?

MICHAEL MOORE:

I don't think people do trust the Democ-- How else could a socialist win 22 states? I mean in my state of Michigan, Bernie Sanders won. If, if, if Hillary Clinton and the Democrats had a difficult time with him, that should have been the red flag to everybody that there is a, a, a mood out there where people are upset at the Democrats and the Republicans.

What has to happen here, though, like with the Brexit vote in England, is that people, where I'm from, have to understand that, while they may not like Hillary that much or she may be a bitter pill to swallow or whatever, you better, you better take your medicine. Because the, the opposite is going to be much, much worse.

CHUCK TODD:

Okay.

MICHAEL MOORE:

And I also don't think it's-- To be picking on the millennials is wrong. The last-- We were all 19. The last thing that you want to do is wag your finger, your adult finger, at these millennials. They're upset at the whole thing. They're upset at the world that's been handed to them. And, and, you know, they didn't create the climate change. They didn't start the war. And, and now it's like they've got to fix this election? No. I think, I think-- I hope they vote for Hillary Clinton. But, but the rest of us have got to get out there and do what we have to do.

CHUCK TODD:

Okay. Michael Moore, appreciate you coming on. I know you're in the middle of doing a documentary on these very voters and what's going on. So it'll be-- we'll all look forward to that. Thank you for coming on.

MICHAEL MOORE:

Yes. Thank you.

CHUCK TODD:

Let's talk about this from another perspective. From the right, Glenn Beck, founder of The Blaze. Himself an anti-establishment type of guy. Mr. Beck, welcome back to the show.

GLENN BECK:

Thank you very much, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

You know, the last time you were on, you said the following to me. You said, "I don't belong to anything anymore, and I want to feel like I belong to something. I don't even like my country, is even the same. I don't belong to anything. Nobody's listening to me. And I don't have any levers that control my own life." You were sort of describing the way you feel as if there are people out there-- and I had somebody else describe it to me, they feel homeless in their home-- own country. Is that--

GLENN BECK:

Yes.

CHUCK TODD:

--what you were trying to get, get across?

GLENN BECK:

I, I-- Yeah. And that's not just describing me, I think that's describing a lot of people. And I, I can't actually bring myself to say that your last guest was right, only because then there will be a YouTube clip of me saying that. It will be used against me.

CHUCK TODD:

That's okay. That's-- By the way--

GLENN BECK:

But he is--

CHUCK TODD:

--I think Mr. Moore probably doesn't want-- is worried about the same thing for him, I mean--

GLENN BECK:

Right. I mean, right. But there is-- he has diagnosed the, the problem in the country. Nobody feels like they're listening. We're, we're, we're shouting over each other, and you know, everything-- I mean I was watching the first 20 minutes of the show. Gee, who would have guessed those guests, those guests would have said those things?

Everybody feels like there's a play going on, and we're just watching it and looking at each other and shaking our heads in disbelief. And nobody's listening to the hardworking American who doesn't feel like they belong to anything anymore. In fact, it's almost as if we're being, we're standing outside and we're not being invited to this party at all.

And, and it's, it's going to backfire. And it's interesting that you would have Michael Moore and me both on the same show talking about this. Because I think there's a lot of people that would claim that Michael Moore and Glenn Beck are responsible for a lot of this.

When, I can't speak for Michael, because I, honestly, I don't watch much of what he does, and I'm sure he doesn't with me. But I warned about this. You know, when they were mocking me for bringing up Nazis, the reason why I did, many of the times, was to warn about the rise of the uber right in Europe that would bleed into America. And it's happening. We, we have to change our, our course. And we have to change--

CHUCK TODD:

Well, let's--

GLENN BECK:

-- our course as individuals now.

CHUCK TODD:

You know, you and I were, had an interesting back and forth before this show when we were talking about this segment. And I think one of the challenges, I know you wanted to discuss, is how do you-- the eventual winner has to govern. Right? And the eventual winner is going to be governing a populace, 40 percent of which will maybe not accept the result, and 40 percent of which certainly won't listen to what anyone is saying out of Washington. So how to-- what's a-- give a recipe of how to start to fix this problem.

GLENN BECK:

No, I've been looking through history. And the only thing I can come back to is Gandhi and Martin Luther King. What we're going through right now is more of a Malcolm X attitude, where we don't understand reconciliation, we just want to win. We have to stop winning, and we have to start reconciling with each other.

And, and realize, we're not going to lose our houses or our jobs or our country. We're losing something much more important. We're losing ourselves. We're losing our civility. We're losing our decency. We're, we're losing our neighbors and our family.

How high of a price are we willing to pay before we say the idea that Martin-- that, that Malcolm X had, which was, "Get 'em" is not the path that we should go on? We have to start reconciling with each other. And unfortunately, right now, there's no leader to do that nationally. It's going to require each of us, in our own communities--

CHUCK TODD:

All right.

GLENN BECK:

--to stand and, and, and be shamed, and be, and be pilloried for it--

CHUCK TODD:

Well.

GLENN BECK:

--but actually stand and do it.

CHUCK TODD:

All right. Glenn Beck, I'm going to leave it there. But both you and Michael Moore proved why this was a segment that all of us here were looking forward to. I appreciate you coming on. Thanks very much.

GLENN BECK:

You bet.

CHUCK TODD:

Later in the broadcast, Tim Kaine and Mike Pence get ready to square off in the vice presidential debate on Tuesday. Can they do anything to make a dent into this campaign? But up next, conservatives are argued for years, there's a missing white vote out there ready to back a Republican nominee. Is Donald Trump the candidate who can get them to come out and vote? Stay with us.

***COMMERCIAL BREAK***

CHUCK TODD:

Welcome back to this week's Data Download. There's been the belief by some that in 2016, a working class white army is going to emerge for Donald Trump and swing key states for him. Well we've looked at the data in two of these states: Florida and Pennsylvania. And the numbers suggest there is a missing working class white vote out there. Working class whites who stayed home in 2012. But are these folks actually registering to vote for 2016? Well let's start with Florida. In the five counties with the highest percentage of white working class voters, places that should lean Republican this year, voter registration is up four and a half percent from last fall. But that's lower than the state's total registration increase of 4.7 percent.

And compare that to the five most diverse counties in Florida, which largely lean Democratic, where registration is up 5.7 percent. So there does not seem to be a Trump advantage in Florida.

Well let's go to Pennsylvania. In the five most white working class counties, voter registration is up a mere 2.8 percent. It's significantly lower than the state up-- updates overall: 4.8 percent. And again, lower in Pennsylvania than the five most diverse counties in the state, where voter registration has increased over 5 percent.

So in these places where Trump has the most votes to gain -- the voters who could potentially win him this election -- there's no evidence that people are registering to vote in droves. In fact, there's no evidence that anybody's in these counties registering people to vote. Many of the folks in these counties stayed home in 2012, and it's quite possible we'll see the same thing this November. Coming up, more from SNL's take on the election from an unbelievable season premiere.

(BEGIN TAPE)

KATE MCKINNON (AS HILLARY CLINTON):

He's spent his life cheating middle class laborers, laborers like my own human father, who made I-- I guess drapes, or printed drapes, or sold drapes, or something with drapes. And he was relatable and I am also relatable.

(END TAPE)

***COMMERCIAL BREAK***

CHUCK TODD:

Let's bring the panel back. Welcome back guys. I know all of you were curious about the Michael Moore, Glenn Beck conversation. Let me throw up one other statistic, which is about this opinion elite here. So far, major newspaper endorsements sort of from the top 100 newspapers. Sixteen for Clinton, four for Gary Johnson, Donald Trump has zero. We do not include the National Enquirer in our list of major newspapers.

MARK HALPERIN:

Coveted.

CHUCK TODD:

I know others do.This--look elite opinions have had I would say no new influence on this campaign. How about that?

AMY WALTER:

You could also argue they're having less and less influence every year. Whether you put this up in 2004 or 2008. When we've seen it now, the gradual decline, not just in elites in media, but in elites in everything. In business, organized religion, it's become much more diffused.

The question though, I think that didn't get answered in this was who's responsible for creating this? And people in the media also have a responsibility for that. And so, when I see folks coming out and kind of wringing their hands about how terrible and uncivil it is, they've been helping to-- they've been making a lot of money in helping to foment this kind of conversation.

RICH LOWRY:

You look at just a trust of the federal government, in 1964, it was about 80 percent of people thought it would do the right thing all or some of the time. Now it's in the teens. And that's true of almost every major institution. I think a lot of this is we live in a different, decentralized age. And we're probably never going back to a time when people have that sort of faith in big, centralizing institutions. The one institution that's held up very well, very notably, is local government.

CHUCK TODD:

Right. And the military.

AMY WALTER:

And the military. Yeah.

CHUCK TODD:

The military, also, I would argue, also draws from a more diverse pool of Americans. So that has helped.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:

But I think when you start looking at the effect within the media, you basically have a network for the last 15 years saying that you can't trust politicians, that our government is broken. And after that, people start internalizing that. And we end up in getting a candidate like Donald Trump, who's completely anti-establishment, completely populist rhetoric. And it's like, well, there is such a shift when people say, "Well, I don't trust government." But it's because we've actually had a propaganda machine for the last 15, 20 years, saying, "You shouldn't."

MARK HALPERIN:

There's a spiritual and cultural element to this. But to me, it's mostly economic. You look at Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, they weren't members of the parties whose nominations they ran for about a year ago. And both of them talked about the economic elites and the government elites being out of touch with what's happened to the American dream. And I think both parties have to get an understanding of why those two guys did so well, regardless of who wins.

CHUCK TODD:

I was just going to say, let's either one of these, particularly President Hillary Clinton, will have to deal with 40 percent of the country that may not think the election--

AMY WALTER:

Is even--

CHUCK TODD:

--is even--

AMY WALTER:

Legitimate.

CHUCK TODD:

--legitimate, and will not listen to anything she's saying. How do you begin to repair that trust? That was a question that I don't think either one of them could answer.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:

Right. Well, and I think that was very telling when Lester Holt, that was his final question, and I think it was one of the most brilliant ones. She was forthright. She said, "I will accept the results of the election." Donald Trump, on the other side, hemmed and hawed and kind of said, "Well--

CHUCK TODD:

I don't know, I would give him-- he answered the question, "I'll support her," and then later, say, "I'll support-- " but then the next day, pulled it back.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:

No, but when he answered the question, he literally said, "Well, there's a lot-- " and it was interesting watching his rhythm. When he first started saying, "Well, there's a lot of people that are supposed to be deported but now they're citizens."

So he said that, he was trying to say, like, "I'm going to try to delegitimize this, because at the end of the day, I don't like to lose." It's a real-- I think it's a window into how he feels about winning at all costs, even to the cost of our democracy.

AMY WALTER:

Well, and we know that, if Republicans, if Hillary Clinton wins, Republicans who compromise with her in any way, shape or form, will be completely demonized, will have no ability to win a primary. And it just is a self perpetuating--

RICH LOWRY:

Yeah. She'll probably win with under 50 percent. There'll probably be a Republican House completely opposed to her. The e-mail thing will drag on.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:

Yep.

RICH LOWRY:

And she's not a good politician. So none of this adds up to be an aspiring administration that's going to restore faith in government.

MARK HALPERIN:

The winner, the keeper, whoever wins, their election night speech, their appointments, their cabinet appointments, reaching out to the other side, and their inauguration address, those three things are always important.

CHUCK TODD:

I think you're leaving out one more, though.

MARK HALPERIN:

Yeah.

CHUCK TODD:

The concession speech.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:

Yep. That's right.

MARK HALPERIN:

But the winner can't control that.

CHUCK TODD:

No, but the concession speech--

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:That's exactly right--

CHUCK TODD:

--Might be more important.

MARK HALPERIN:

Yeah.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:

Well, and I think one of the things that we're not talking about with Donald Trump, he's low on the polls. But I actually think that we can expect almost a Bradley surprise, meaning that there's a lot of folks that may not feel that they want to publicly say in polls, that they want to vote for him. But when they get behind that-- when it's between them and the box, they actually might pull that lever.

AMY WALTER:

I don't buy that yet. I mean we've not seen any evidence of that in the primaries, people who said they're going to vote for Donald Trump voted for him. And the people that are saying, that we're hearing, "I'm not going to vote for Donald Trump," They're Republicans, if they come home and vote for Donald Trump, there's no surprise in that. The surprise would be those people that Chuck pointed out who don't vote, who aren't normally part of the process. If they come out, that would be the surprise.

RICH LOWRY:

Even though you don't see it in the registration data, and they don't have any ground operation to speak of, because I still would not be shocked if he can change the electorate somewhat by turning out these working class white voters who were missing in 2012. And his core message is built for those people.

MARK HALPERIN:

And with his current trajectory, he could get to 265 electoral votes and some honest Democrats would admit that.

CHUCK TODD:

Right.

MARK HALPERIN:

He's five electoral votes away. And once you're five away, any--

CHUCK TODD:

No, anything can happen. My favorite parlor game, though, is more hidden Hillary vote or more hidden Trump vote? I think it's more even--

AMY WALTER:

Yeah.

CHUCK TODD:

--then you guys might think.

AMY WALTER:

I agree.

CHUCK TODD:

I'm going to quick pause here. Moderator prerogative. Back in 45 seconds with our Endgame segment and some more SNL. We'll be right back.

***COMMERCIAL BREAK***

CHUCK TODD:

Back now with End Game as we try to land the show plane here. VP debate-- good news is I put a compilation of the most memorable moments from VP debates. Here it is.

(BEGIN TAPE)

LLOYD BENTSEN:

Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.

BOB DOLE:

If we added up the killed and wounded in Democrat wars in this century it'd be about 1.6 million Americans. Enough to fill the city of Detroit.

SARAH PALIN:

Nice to meet you. Hey, can I call you Joe?

(END TAPE)

CHUCK TODD:

And there you go. And by the way all these most memorable moments--

AMY WALTER:

They all had one thing in common.

CHUCK TODD:

Yeah?

AMY WALTER:

None of those candidates ended up winning.

CHUCK TODD:

Correct. That's the point. You can win the VP debate and it does your ticket that much good. Right Mark?

MARK HALPERIN:

I think there's one way this debate will get attention and break through, which is if Tim Kaine pulls out his cellphone and tweets about a Mike Pence sex tape. That's the only way they're going to get any attention.

CHUCK TODD:

Look it can stop a bad news cycle and Donald Trump desperately needs to stop a bad news cycle.

RICH LOWRY:

No one is anticipating this vice presidential debate like the Trump campaign. It cannot get here soon enough just to change the media conversation. Otherwise, it'll be perhaps one of the most earnest presidential debates in American history and one of the least consequential.

CHUCK TODD:

You know, Maria, it is interesting talking to Clinton folks. They don't--they want to try-- Kaine's goal is apparently to make Mike Pence defend everything that Donald Trump says. And Pence's goal is to normalize this debate, make it about issues. That's a-- it's an awkward position for Kaine to be because he has to be the guy that says 'no, no, no let's not talk about trade, let's talk about Trump.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:

Right. And well what they don't want to do is they don't want to make it seem like the angry person going after Mike Pence, right? Mike Pence is very reasonable. He's the one that actually normalizes Donald Trump. So that is going to be something that I don't actually think that Mike Pence actually wants to get into the issues either, he just wants to say "look he just gets off his handles a little but he's actually a really good guy. That's why I put my political career on you and I think that's going to be a challenge for them.

MARK HALPERIN:

I think there's one other thing Pence can do, in all seriousness, he can energize the base of the Republican Party. He can through dog whistles but also some pretty direct statements about the center right movement. I think he can inspire people to vote for the ticket.

CHUCK TODD:

You know there was no-- of the many things Trump forgot to do at his debate, the biggest one I've heard from some actually is he forgot to talk about the Supreme Court. That was actually a-- because it is how you get skeptical Republicans-- that's been like how you yank them onboard. AKA Ted Cruz.

AMY WALTER:

And again I think Mike Pence is going to go in very prepared. He knows how to do this. He's going to be on message and we'll talk about how incredibly on message he was. And then by the next day we may be off on another tweet storm.

RICH LOWRY:

I mean he's had a very tough job.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:

Who knows.

RICH LOWRY:

He's the defender in chief of Donald Trump. He has to constantly deflect, defend, explain away and he has not had a hiccup. He has done an exemplary job.

CHUCK TODD:

With a smile on his face--

MARK HALPERIN:

Whatever happens, almost certainly we wake up Wednesday morning and the next presidential debate's just a couple days away so--

AMY WALTER:

That's right

CHUCK TODD:

And we know he's prepping for that. Alright last night SNL was back obviously they waited to set their sights on the campaign. Here you go.

(BEGIN TAPE)

ALEC BALDWIN (AS DONALD TRUMP):

Gina, Gina, huge, Gina.

MICHAEL CHE (AS LESTER HOLT):

Secretary Clinton, what do you think about that?

KATE MCKINNON (AS HILLARY CLINTON):

I think I'm going to be President.

LARRY DAVID (AS BERNIE SANDERS):

Senator Clinton is the prune juice of this election. She might not seem that appetizing but if you don't take her now, you're going to be clogged with crap for a very long time.

MICHAEL CHE (AS LESTER HOLT):

Secretary Clinton, did you have a response?

KATE MCKINNON (AS HILLARY CLINTON):

Not a uh-- not a response, more of a request. Can America vote right now?

(END TAPE)

CHUCK TODD:

Look, we laugh about SNL, but it-- when it stamps the campaign, the candidates don't shake that image.

MARIA TERESA KUMAR:

Well, I mean Tina Fey basically sealed the fate of Sarah Palin and I think that's what they're looking for right now-- Alec Baldwin. Is he going to seal the fate of Donald Trump once and for all?

CHUCK TODD:

What'd you make of the Alec Baldwin? I was skeptical-- better than I thought.

MARK HALPERIN:

Genius.

CHUCK TODD:

He really a--

MARK HALPERIN:

He's got it totally nailed. Look, the reality-- we all see this-- you talk to any voters around the country, there's not a great deal of happiness about these being the two choices and I think that's what the SNL thing tapped into as much as anything else.

CHUCK TODD:

I-- to me that prune juice line might be the most accurate line--

AMY WALTER:

I think it's how many voters are feeling--

CHUCK TODD:

Poltifact may fact-check that line and say--

MARK HALPERIN

Zero pinocchios.

CHUCK TODD:

Right, zero Pinocchios on that one. Alright before we go quick programming note-- NBC News will provide live coverage of the vice-presidential debate on Tuesday. It begins at 9:00 Eastern Time. And one more thing-- I want to say thank you and all of us here at Meet The Press want to say thank you and good luck to the great Jim Miklaszewski, who's leaving NBC after 31 years. Mik, enjoy retirement, enjoy that golf game of yours-- it's still mediocre. That's all for today. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.

***END TRANSCRIPT***