Examining our current economic standing

>>> we're back. final minutes with our roundtable. you just said it. you want to respond more to what grover is saying on the ultimate deal.

>> he is talking about seducing, that the republicans have been seduced. impure thoughts. this is not a pornographic debate, grover. this is about avoiding a recession, which is going to happen. i know you don't want a recession. you don't want people laid off. you're going to sacrifice that for the 2%? is that what you want?

>> no. you have to listen to both what the republicans are talking about -- again, i'm supportive of the republican position, which is we need to have economic growth , not higher taxes. if we grew at 4% a year instead of 2% a year, reagan levels instead of obama levels, for one decade we would ned net $5 trillion in additional revenue.

>> no obama care. no threat of regulations. understand how ugly the next four years will get. everything in obama care that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion dollar tax increase was pushed over until after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, ok, that are being talked about, those all hit after the election. we got four bad years of regulation taxes. he wants to add higher taxes to that. tea party two will dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. let's not pretend he isn't pushing us off the cliff.

>> maria, the broader question, where is our economy right now as we're tackling this issue? what's the economy doing well? what's it not doing as well? and what will we see over the next four years?

>> we are moving at a slow pace. at this point in the recovery, you would expect faster growth, which we are not going. if we go over the cliff, we will go into recession. a couple of industries will feel the hurt more so than others. obviously, defense. and because these are long-term projects, those defense cuts will be felt well into 2013 , into 2014 . what's doing well? health care is doing well. we're living longer. living until 100 years old. that's a positive. it's not a crisis. it's a positive. so we are in need of 1 million nurses, health care professionals in the coming years. technology doing very well. a lot of start-up technology. innovation going well. that's a positive. manufacturing coming back a bit as well. the auto sector. however, everything can change in a nanosecond. yes, it's resilient. i agree with the secretary. however, very, very fragile. particularly with this fiscal cliff.

>> well, we haven't talked about one of the big pieces of the fiscal cliff, which actually has a way bigger impact on the economy than tax breaks for the folks at the top, and that's the payroll tax extension for 160 million americans. the nonpartisan congressional budget office says that gives you the most bang for your buck economically speaking. i believe we have to extend that for a year or come up with some alternative way of doing that. let me say a quick word about medicare reform. there's a difference in outlook. we believe we have to find savings in medicare . the president did, $760 billion, and we can build on that by trying to modernize the system, reduce costs overall in the system, not simply transfer rising health care costs onto the backs of seniors on medicare . $22,000 median income. that's what the voucher plan did. we believe we can find savings by changing the way we reimburse doctors and hospitals. not by across the board cuts, but by focusing on the value of care, the quality of care, not the volume of care and the quantity