In defense of security screening

B. WILLIAMS: on this, we're joined tonight by Kip Hawley . He was the head of TSA for three and a half years, beginning in the summer of '05. He's the guy, in plain English , who made us put all our liquids and gels in little plastic bags, among other things. Just written a book about airport security called " Permanent Emergency ." He's with us tonight from Mountain View , California . So, Mr. Hawley , now that we know more about how they're trying to come after us, you've complained the TSA is still wasting time and effort looking for sharp objects. Are we still fighting the last war?

Mr. KIP HAWLEY (Former TSA Administrator): Well, good evening, Brian . I think that we're ahead of this one, thankfully, and that we ought to get rid of the tools from the last war that are already covered. And it demonstrates again, that our -- that al-Qaeda is looking for an explosive bomb and that sharp objects and things like that are a distraction. So I would say we get rid of that and focus on our resources on the next generation of explosive they bring at us.

B. WILLIAMS: You also think it's dangerous how many government officials have been walking around talking about how weakened al-Qaeda is now.

Mr. HAWLEY: Well, I think it's not accurate because it's a worldwide movement. And frankly, I think that having the news out at all was a surprise to me because it's a whole lot better if al-Qaeda doesn't know they've lost an operative and/or a bomb. But they will keep trying research and development. But I think one of the key things we need to remember is that the security arrangements we have today drives them away from bombs that work. So that underwear bomb may or may not have worked. And it's our baggy and shoes and all that kind of stuff that we do today, forces al-Qaeda to use bombs that are less effective.

B. WILLIAMS: All right. Kip Hawley with us tonight from California . Thank you very much .