PoliticsNation   |  July 11, 2013

What the state must prove

Legal experts Lisa Bloom, Faith Jenkins, Ken Padowitz, John Burris, and Marcia Clark join PoliticsNation to discuss what the state must prove in the remainder of their closing argument in order to convince the jury in the George Zimmerman case.

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This content comes from Closed Captioning that was broadcast along with this program.

>>> george zimmerman 's fate ultimately lies with the jury of six women. by this time tomorrow, they will likely already be in deliberations. joining me outside now at the courthouse in sanford, florida, is msnbc's craig melvin. craig , so much drama in that courtroom. how did the jury react to the state's closing argument today?

>> reverend al, this is something that we've been keeping a close lookout on over the past few weeks as this trial has gone on. we can tell you that the jurors were taking far fewer notes than they typically do this. has been a jury that has sort of prided itself on taking copious notes. not so much today. the juries seem to be quieten gauged, listening instead of writing down. something else we should note here, reverend. i don't know if a lot of folks have realized this. but tomorrow, before the jury starts deliberations, three of them are going to get a big surprise there are nine in the box. before they begin their deliberations, judge nelson is going to say to three of them, thank you for your service. she'll identify them by numbers. she'll thank them for their service. and then she'll excuse them. those are the three who are alternates who do not know they are alternates right now.

>> all right. msnbc's craig melvin, thanks.

>>> and let's go back with -- let's go back through some of the key testimony. let's go there first. back with me faith jenkins, john burris, ken padowitz and marcia clark . a big part of the state's case is disproving zimmerman 's claim that trayvon martin covered his mouth.

>> this photograph, the defense keeps parading, recall what i did? i said what do you expect? blood. and i'm going to show you the photographs. not just that the medical examiner saying oh, that dr. bao, he is incompetent, he didn't know what he was doing. no. i'm going to show you the photographs at the scene which show what? no blood on his hands. they're going to say oh, it was raining that night. wow. and i guess the blood on the defendant's head just stuck there, right? but on the victim they just kind of vanished?

>> den, how crucial is this argument today?

>> i think it's very good. he is being very sarcastic, which i sometimes do in front of a jury. but it's real. heavy comes across to the jury like this is so unbelievable. and it is unbelievable that the blood stays on zimmerman 's head, but it gets washed off in the rain allegedly on the hands of trayvon martin. it doesn't make sense. common sense in life experience for the people in that jury are going to say yeah, that doesn't make sense. zimmerman is not telling us the truth here. and that's the web of lies theme that the prosecution is hammering away. you can't believe this guy. and if you can't believe him, you can't believe this self-defense. it's very crucial, very good point to the prosecution.

>> one thing that during the trial we'll remember is the pathologist testified that zimmerman 's injuries were consistent with his story. faith, let me play that to you.

>> is this injury consistent with mr. zimmerman 's head having impacted a sidewalk?

>> yes, sir.

>> you can see there is a swelling right here. it's very prominent. it's just below the area where he has a mall abrasion.

>> is the injury you see in this exhibit consistent, this exhibit 79, consistent with having been punched in the nose?

>> yes. the physical evidence is consistent with mr. martin being over mr. zimmerman .

>> so, faith, how important is that?

>> well, here is the deal. george zimmerman said he was hit in the face 25 to 30 times. his head was repeatedly slammed against the concrete. and then look at his injuries. his injuries speak for themselves. he refused medical attention the night of this incident. he got two band-aids on the back of his head, no stitches, no sutures. well still don't know the exact damage to his nose because he did not go to the doctor to find out if he had a diagnosis whether it was fracture order broken because he didn't feel he needed the medical attention . the bottom line is he did not have significant injuries. he had minor injuries, completely inconsistent with the story and the beating that he said that he took from trayvon martin. that's a problem for him here.

>> john burris?

>> i agree with that. part of this whole notion about for the prosecution's case is that he claims that he was severely injured and beaten so that therefore he was beaten within an inch of life and about to receive great bodily injury and therefore he used grave bodily force. what if he wasn't? he decide he had enough and essentially was in the middle of a fight and brings out a gun. therefore, you easily get to manslaughter, but you can also in fact given the mental state that he had before, you might very well push your way into the second-degree murder. the point is it's a significant lie in terms of exaggeration of his injuries. it is not consistent with someone who is getting ready to receive great bodily injuries.

>> marcia , if you listen to another of the witnesses the lead investigator in the case, he testified he thought zimmerman was exaggerating about those injuries. listen to this.

>> you said in response to a question from mr. de la rionda yesterday that you perceived mr. zimmerman 's injuries to be minor, correct?

>> yes, sir.

>> you were asked specifically about exaggeration. do you feel he had exaggerated the manner in which he was hit?

>> yes, sir.

>> how important is that, marcia ?

>> oh, that's so critical. to me, i have to say, even more than all the other lies, and there are some pretty big ones there, this one about the injuries is the most critical. because it shows you an effort to -- it actually shows to meconciousness of guilt. i'm going to have to say that i was really getting the tar beat out of me because otherwise i can't justify having shot this kid. and to the extent -- and that is so verifiable. you can look at him. look at him. he had, like faith said, two bandages on the back of his head? come on. he walked away refusing all medical attention , and then claims he was beaten repeatedly with his head slammed into the pavement. nobody buys that it's so important. and by the way --

>> it makes sense, marcia , if he is super man. he has no injuries. so that is where it makes sense, or george zimmerman is lying. he is not just exaggerating.

>> right, right. therefore without kryptonite, trayvon couldn't have won. it's also significant, don't forget the pathologist who testified for the prosecution who said i find these injuries to be insignificant, and also consistent with a single blow, that he could have fallen and made all of these injuries at the the same time, which means that all of this scenario about pounding his head into the ground, which by the way i never bought from day one, none of the injuries fit that. which is something else i wanted to say. yesterday when they were doing a demonstration with the dummy, if you recall john guy , the prosecutor, showed himself straddling the dummy and used it for purpose of showing position. a really good graphic way of showing how could possibly it could have gone down the way george zimmerman said. and then mark o'mara gets on top of the dummy, which weighs about maybe five pounds and starts pounding into it the ground to show how george zimmerman 's head could have been pounded. i hope somebody pointed out the fact that that dummy weighs 5 pounds and george zimmerman weighed 200. you don't pound a person that way.

>> john, go ahead, quickly.

>> uwas going to say you also got to look at how he was moving around when the police arrived. he wasn't stumbling, falling. all of his gait was perfectly normal. this is not a person who had been pounded into the cement because he would have been dizzy or something.

>> and did not ask for medical attention which says his state of mind was that he didn't even the had what injuries one could argue. panel, please stay with us. much more after the break. stay with us. i met