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'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for Nov. 15th

Read the transcript to the Tuesday show

Guests: Dave Holloway, Julia Renfro, Jamie Skeeters, Connie Fowler, Robert McAndrew, Joe Cardinale, Don Chavarro, Stephen Simpson, Mark Healy, Vince McMahon, John Bradshaw Layfield, Chavo Guerrero

RITA COSBY, HOST:  Good evening, everybody.  Tonight, a special report on world famous wrestler Eddie Guerrero, whose sudden death shocked millions of dedicated fans of the WWE.  Vince McMahon is going to join me live, along with wrestler JBL and his cousin, Chavo Guerrero.

But first, we‘ve got some big breaking news tonight about tornadoes.  We have reports of tornadoes and violent weather in at least four different states in the Midwest and also the Southeast.  Tonight, at least one person is dead in Kentucky.  There are people hurt in Tennessee.  And there is reportedly damage in Illinois and also Indiana.

Larry Flowers is a reporter with WSMV-TV.  He‘s live with the very latest from Paris, Tennessee—Larry.

LARRY FLOWERS, WSMV-TV:  Good evening, Rita.  Here in Paris, Tennessee, in Harry (ph) County, there was sort of a one-two punch.  There was damage in the east, as well as the western part of the county.  Right behind me, you see the building that the facing was ripped off, as well as the roof of the building, as well as—there‘s a lot of tree damage, debris wrapped around in trees.  And there‘s a manufacturing plant up the street that the roof was pulled off, but no workers inside were injured.

Now, there were minor injuries throughout this particular county, but none life-threatening, is what we‘re being told.  Along the Cypress (ph) Road area, near the Tennessee River, there was a lot of damage, a lot of homes that were destroyed, as well as a lot of trees down there.  There‘s widespread power outages throughout this particular area.  But the good news is no injuries here and—no major injuries here in Harry County, Tennessee.

COSBY:  And that‘s good to hear.  Thank you very much, Larry.  We may get back with you later on in this show if there‘s any more developments.

FLOWERS:  Great.  Thanks.

COSBY:  Thank you very much.

So where is this massive storm heading that you‘re hearing about from Larry and others?  NBC Weather Plus meteorologist Bill Karins has the very latest on what‘s happening all across the country—Bill.

BILL KARINS, NBC WEATHER PLUS METEOROLOGIST:  Thanks so much, Rita.  We‘re continuing to watch this threat.  Good news.  Earlier today, we had about 20 severe thunderstorm warnings all at one time.  Now we‘re down to about six or seven out there.

So here‘s what we‘re watching.  The yellow areas here are the severe thunderstorm warnings.  The tornado warnings are actually in red.  And earlier today, at one time, we had almost 25 tornado warnings.  But we still have a threat out there.  Our watch goes from Detroit all the way southwards down to the gulf.  You can see how large of an area that we‘re concerned with.

But I think we‘re already through the peak of this event, but we still have a few areas we need to closely watch.  One of them just is outside of Nashville.  Two lines have actually met in the same location here.  We‘ve had numerous reports with damage on this line, including tornado damage, as we go through especially northern portions here, just to the north side of Nashville.  This line‘s going to continue to spread towards areas of eastern Tennessee during the night.  And severe weather threat will continue with that line.

Good news for some areas.  Indianapolis, the severe weather is out of your region.  The cold front has moved through, and now these storms are all pushing towards Ohio, and that will be an area of concern throughout the overnight hours.  And one area that we‘re still watching some very strong winds with and possibly some hail is heading through Detroit.  That‘s moving through at the current time.  Another location we‘re watching closely is that line coming out of Indiana into Ohio.  Cincinnati, some light rain now, possibility, though, of tornadoes and strong storms for you over the next hour or two.

Severe weather threat will continue throughout the night, Rita.  We‘ll continue to update it as we get more injuries, and unfortunately, probably some more fatality reports in during the evening.

COSBY:  Please keep us posted, Bill.  Thank you very much.

And now to our special report on a sudden death of a wrestling superstar.  Thirty-eight-year-old Eddie Guerrero, well known in the world of wrestling, was found dead Sunday morning at his Minneapolis hotel.  His surprising death has shaken the wrestling community and his millions of loyal fans.  Here‘s MSNBC‘s Lisa Daniels with a look back at his life and his legacy.


LISA DANIELS, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):  He was a professional wrestling superstar.  Eddie Guerrero was a hero to millions, and as the first Mexican-American champion in the history of the WWE, a superhero to Latinos.  But on Sunday night, the bells tolled for Eddie Guerrero one last time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Eddie Guerrero has passed away.  Eddie was in the prime of his life, 38 years old, and the prime of his career.

DANIELS:  At this tribute last night on WWE‘s “Monday Night Raw,” powerful, huge men built like solid rock, professional wrestlers, broke down in tears, as did their millions of fans, upon learning the news that over the weekend, Eddie Guerrero was found dead in his Minneapolis hotel room.  He was 38 years old.

RON MEIER, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT:  It does not appear suspicious.  There were no signs of foul play.

DANIELS:  Wrestler Chavo Guerrero, Jr., is Eddie‘s nephew.  He got the call from hotel security telling him Eddie missed his wake-up call.

CHAVO GUERRERO, JR., EDDIE GUERRERO‘S NEPHEW:  I went up to his room, and we found him out.  So I didn‘t think anything of it.  I thought, Is he all right?  What‘s going on?  I pulled him out.  I turned him and over said, OK, something‘s not right.

DANIELS:  According to the WWE‘s Web site, initial autopsy reports attribute heart failure to his death.  His wife, Vickie, believes it was from his past, a past of hard exercise and of hard living, with drinking and drug abuse.

Wrestling was Eddie Guerrero‘s passion from a young age, and no surprise.  He was born into Mexico‘s first family of professional wrestling.  His father was the legendary Gory (ph) Guerrero.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  And I‘d be in the ring and I‘d look over, you know, and see if he was watching, and I‘d just see him shake his head like this.  And I knew I was doing something wrong.

DANIELS:  While most families in their neighborhood had swimming pools or playgrounds in their backyards, the Guerreros had a regulation wrestling ring.  And from a young age, Eddie was already tag teaming with cousin Chavo, Jr.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  We got to wrestle in front of people at the age of, you know, 9 and 6 years old.

DANIELS:  He wrestled while attending the University of New Mexico, receiving an athletic scholarship.  In 1987, Eddie turned pro, becoming a star in Mexico, and ultimately, a main event draw in the U.S..

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I want to live up to the name.  This is really what I want to do.

DANIELS:  With his war cry of “Latino heat,” Guerrero overcame obstacles to reach the top, becoming a WWE champion on three occasions, as well as a WWE tag team champion that he shared with his nephew, Chavo.  His final match was fought last Friday night on WWE “Shakedown.”  Guerrero won.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  The winner of this match (INAUDIBLE) disqualification, Eddie Guerrero!

DANIELS:  Eddie Guerrero is survived by his wife, Vickie, three daughters and legions of fans around the world.


COSBY:  And I had the pleasure of meeting Eddie Guerrero when I actually went to a WWE match.  You know, clearly, it is a tremendous loss in the professional wrestling world and to all the fans of wrestling.

Joining me now is World Wrestling Entertainment chairman Vince McMahon.  You know, Vince, you know, when I see that tribute last night, you know, folks who cover wrestling and have been in involved in it, like you have been, for decades, it‘s really a family.  How tough was it for you?  And how emotional was that tribute for you?

VINCE MCMAHON, CHAIRMAN, WORLD WRESTLING ENTERTAINMENT:  It‘s always difficult when you have to endure something like that, especially someone who meant so much to so many people, as Eddie did.  He was beloved by so many fans all over the world.  He was a huge superstar.  And this is a family atmosphere, and Eddie was a bit of a patriarch, I think, to some of the younger wrestlers.  And he‘s meant so much to so many.  It was a very painful experience.  I was so proud of all of our men and women, all of our superstars, to be able to put their personal feeling aside and do this special tribute to Eddie.

COSBY:  Yes, and you could see that they were really touched by him.  I mean, this is an amazing man.  We talked about his drug abuse and some of the other things, but he overcame them.  In fact, he was, what, four years sober.  This is a guy who overcame so many hurdles, Vince.

MCMAHON:  No question.  Eddie was very proud of the hurdles that he overcame.  He was very proud of his heritage, very proud of his accomplishments, very proud that he had just moved his entire family to Phoenix, Arizona, where he was going to start life all over again.  He was so proud.  And he should have been.  He was an extraordinary human being.

COSBY:  Yes, how shocked were you when you found out about his passing?  And how did you find out, Vince?

MCMAHON:  I was in the car on the way to the arena that morning when I got the phone call.  And you know, something like that, you can‘t prepare for that.  It feels surreal when you first hear the news, and you know, it really doesn‘t sink in at first.  And it was just a shock to everyone because Eddie had overcome his demons.  Eddie was on such a positive roll, and it was just shocking beyond belief.

COSBY:  You know, it‘s amazing, too, and no surprise because wrestling has such a huge following.  You‘ve gotten (INAUDIBLE) what, like, 50,000 e-mails from fans.  I want to read one of them.  This sort of captures Eddie, known as sort of “Latino heat.”  And I had the pleasure, as you just heard, of watching him one time in the ring.  He really is a great performer.

This is from a fan.  His name is Jonathan Leung.  This was an e-mail that was sent.  And he said, “After Eddie got the pinfall, the crowd erupted and Eddie walked back up the rampway with a grin on his face.  I got huge goosebumps from that.”

Why do you think Eddie connected so much with the fans, Vince?

COSBY:  That‘s tough to say, Rita.  I mean, Eddie had, you know, extraordinary charisma.  And there was this very special connection, an Eddie Guerrero connection.  He had this impish look on his like no one else.  Eddie was—his whole style was different than everyone else, his demeanor.  Everything about Eddie was unique to Eddie Guerrero.  He was an extraordinary performer.

COSBY:  Are you worried what kind of impact it‘s going to have on the sport?  I want to show—this is a comment from Eddie‘s wife.  (INAUDIBLE) obviously, was heart issues that caused this.  And she said, quote—this is a quote posting from her site.  It says, “Eddie just worked out like crazy all the time.  It made his heart grow bigger and work harder, and the vessels were getting smaller, and that‘s what caused the heart failure.”

Are you worried sort of the impact it‘s going to have on the sport, you know, the concern of someone dying so young?

MCMAHON:  We‘ve had situations like this in the past.  I wonder—and again, I‘m not a physician.  You know, you wonder how much of Eddie‘s hard life that he lived in the past caught up with him.  You wonder again—again, Eddie was—this is a tough life being a WWE star.  There‘s an extraordinary amount of travel.  You have to keep yourself in shape in the gym, and then, you know, the punishment that you take.  Even though we‘re entertainment, you know, what we do hurts in the ring and it takes its toll.

And again I think that all of those factors combined, you know, had an effect on Eddie.  If, in fact, maybe there was something genetic, as well.  I don‘t know.  I don‘t think his family is predisposed to anything like this, but again, I‘m only speculating now.

COSBY:  What made him such a unique wrestler?  What made him such a—like, such a love of the fans?

MCMAHON:  It was his connection, Rita.  He was gifted athletically.  Eddie could do things that most people could not.  Eddie had a tremendous desire to perform.  He loved to perform.  And when he went out there, he wanted to give it everything that he had.  When he came back, you know, through the curtain, there was nothing left.  He gave it all in terms of his performance, as the great performers do.  And again, his charisma and all of it combined—he had a gift of gab.  You know, he was funny.  He was—you know, everything about Eddie is just so unique to Eddie Guerrero.

COSBY:  (INAUDIBLE) as we‘re looking at some great pictures of him here.  And in fact, the guy who‘s there with him in the ring, JBL, is going to be coming up.  Vince, please stick with us because when we come back, we‘re going to have Guerrero‘s nephew and that other superstar you just saw there, John Bradshaw Layfield.  A lot of people know him as JBL.  He‘s going to be joining me LIVE AND DIRECT, along with Vince.

And also, an all points bulletin tonight for two convicted murderers who made a daring jailbreak.  How did these guys get out, and where are they now?  We‘re going to have the very latest on that massive manhunt.  And that‘s not all coming up tonight.

Still ahead: We‘ve learned the government of Aruba has stepped up its investigation in the Natalee Holloway case.  Are her parents finally getting results?  Her dad joins me live.

And for the first time, we know that the girl whose parents were allegedly killed by her teenage boyfriend was involved in the murder herself.  Find out what cops now believe.

And this is a shocker.  Wait until you find out who “GQ” magazine picked for the man of the year.  Is it even a man?  You‘ll find out coming up.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  He was a nice person.  I can‘t believe it.  I can‘t believe it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  When you were in the room with him, he made you the most important person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  He was very lovable, valuable and very capable of doing stuff and (INAUDIBLE)  He was very unique.  I don‘t think there will be another person like Eddie.


COSBY:  Of course, those are some of the many fans talking about Eddie Guerrero, the professional wrestling star who died suddenly just a few days ago.

Joining me now is Eddie Guerrero‘s nephew, Chavo Guerrero, who shared a ring with him.  He‘s a well-known wrestler in his own right.  And also with me here in the studio is superstar pro wrestler, my pal, John Bradshaw Layfield, known as JBL, as he‘s most commonly known to many of his fans.  And let‘s also bring back in the chairman of the WWE, Vince McMahon.

You know, Chavo, I got to start with you because you actually found Eddie in the hotel room.  How shocked were you?  And how has this affected you personally?

CHAVO GUERRERO, NEPHEW:  You know, I don‘t know how shocked I was.  I was really—it was, like, not real.  It happened, and I was like, OK, just get him up, you know?  And I think so many things were happening that I didn‘t have the time to be shocked until after it was all over.  And I just went back to my hotel room and it was just—that‘s when it kind of started setting in, like, OK, what just happened, you know?

And as far as affecting me, it‘s huge.  I just—I lost—he really was my uncle, but we were so close, we were brothers.  We were only three years‘ difference in age, you know, so he really was the big brother that I never had, and vice versa.  I was the younger brother that he never had.

COSBY:  You know, what was it like, you know—obviously, Eddie‘s dad was a well-known wrestler in his own right.  What was it like for you growing up in sort of the Guerrero dynasty of wrestling?

GUERRERO:  It was a blessing, and it was also very detrimental, if you want to say that, because we had a lot...

COSBY:  You had a tough act to follow, then, Chavo, you know?

GUERRERO:  Absolutely.  We had a lot of doors open for us because we were Guerreros and we were—our road had already been paved, but once we stepped through that door, you had to be the best because our Guerreros before us were the best.  So if you didn‘t live up to that, you know, right away, it‘s, like, Well, you‘re not going to be as good as your uncle, or Eddie always—he wasn‘t going to be as good as his brothers.  And my father, he heard that he wasn‘t going to be as good as his father.  So you know, we hears just so many different things.  And it was—it was tough, but it was great also.

COSBY:  Absolutely.  And what a great relationship you had.  You know, JBL, I know you got a little bit of a gripe with Chavo.  We covered up it, but on this eye, I heard when you came in, you had a bit of a shiner, right?

JOHN BRADSHAW LAYFIELD, PRO WRESTLER:  I have a huge black eye...

COSBY:  And it was from Chavo, right?

LAYFIELD:  ... from Chavo Guerrero on Sunday night.  Absolutely.


COSBY:  Chavo, what—have you got any apologies on the air to JBL right now?

GUERRERO:  Well, when Eddie passed, I‘m sure JBL thought that he just was done with the Guerreros, but hey, there‘s a lot of us, buddy!


LAYFIELD:  I think it‘s only fitting.  You know, I was Eddie‘s arch-enemy, so when Vince asked me, he said, Do you feel like wrestling, I said, Absolutely.  I‘d love to wrestle in a memorial for Eddie, but I said, But I want to wrestle against Chavo, without a doubt, you know?  Who better than to have Eddie‘s arch-enemy wrestle against...

COSBY:  And he really...


COSBY:  And it sounds like—did he win, or who won?

LAYFIELD:  Yes.  You saw me before makeup.

COSBY:  Yes, I was going to say!


LAYFIELD:  Obviously, I lost!

COSBY:  Oh, gosh!  (INAUDIBLE) we‘re looking at some shots of you here.  You know, I have a question.  You talk about the sort of the arch-enemy relationship, but off the ring, out of the ring, you guys—I was over at your apartment, saw your wedding pictures.


COSBY:  And I saw a great picture of Eddie Guerrero when he was a groomsman.


COSBY:  In the wedding.  You guys had a hate relationship in the ring but a love real out.

LAYFIELD:  Absolutely.  Eddie and I had a—had a tremendous relationship.  He was one of my groomsmen in my wedding.  We were...

COSBY:  There‘s the picture, in fact.  There it is.  There it is.

LAYFIELD:  Absolutely.  Eddie and his wife came down.  He asked off work to come down and be part of my wedding.  He said he wouldn‘t miss it for the world.

Eddie touched a lot of lives, not just in the ring, but also a lot of lives outside the ring.  A few years ago, I was going through a divorce, and Eddie saw me in baggage claim in Calgary, and he said, Let me ride with you.  And I said, OK.  He said, What‘s wrong?  I said, Nothing, Eddie.  He said, Stop at this restaurant.  We stopped.  He said, I‘m not leaving until you tell me what‘s wrong.  And I finally—I told him what was wrong, and over the course of several weeks, every time he came in, he‘d bring me a new Scripture.  He was very religious.  I mean...

COSBY:  You were getting a divorce or something at the (INAUDIBLE) personal.

LAYFIELD:  Yes.  And he would bring a new book that he was reading just for me.  And he helped me—and what I saw was, after that, I realized that he was doing that with everybody.  You know, he influenced hundreds and hundreds of lives.  And when I met Meredith (ph), you know, who you‘re good friends with, terrific...

COSBY:  Yes, your wonderful wife now.

LAYFIELD:  My wonderful wife.  And Eddie was just—always seemed like as happy as I was.  And he was down at my wedding.  He spoke at my wedding.  I got the opportunity to speak at his funeral Thursday, and I‘m extremely honored to do so.

COSBY:  What are going to say at his funeral?  How do you say good-bye to somebody who just (INAUDIBLE) so soon?

LAYFIELD:  I‘m overwhelmed.  There‘s nothing you can say.  He was one of the most passionate people I‘ve ever met and one of the best persons I‘ve ever met.  And to be able to justify his life in any form—I‘m not going to be able to do it.  I‘m going to get up there and try to say kind of what he meant to me and what he meant to a lot of people and probably not do a very good job and probably get a little emotional.  But I‘m going to try to at least explain to his wife, Vickie, that, you know, he spent more time with us than he did with her.  You know, we were four days on the road a week minimum.  He‘s only three days on the road with her.

COSBY:  And you guys work so hard, so many long hours.

LAYFIELD:  We work extremely hard, traveled, you know, thousands, and over the course of a career, millions of miles together.  And I want to let her know that he influenced hundreds of lives for the better when he was away from her.

COSBY:  (INAUDIBLE) look at some of the fans, too.  It‘s amazing.  It sounds like millions upon millions of people.

You know, Vince, how do you memorialize this guy?  I know you gave that beautiful tribute last night at WWE, at the match.  But how are you going to memorialize him this Thursday?

MCMAHON:  Well, we have a Friday night “Smackdown” in which we‘re

going to do something similar to what we did last night, but none of it is

enough.  You really—when someone like Eddie, who gave so much, and as

JBL said, was so passionate about his craft and his business, there‘s not -

there‘s nothing—you can‘t do enough, quite frankly.  I mean, there‘s nothing you really can do that measures up to what Eddie‘s influences and contributions were to this business.

COSBY:  You know, and Chavo, how is the family holding up?  You know, because—you know, obviously, this is a very loving, very close family and had a lot of ups and downs.

GUERRERO:  This is a very, very close family, and everybody‘s taking it extremely hard, but we‘re all trying to rally together for his wife and for his kids because no matter how much it‘s affecting us, I mean, it‘s affecting them, you know, 10-fold, 100-fold.

COSBY:  Yes, Chavo, how are they doing?  Have you talked to them?

GUERRERO:  Yes, I have.  Definitely.  It‘s very up and down.  And his wife, Vickie, was very much in denial when she first heard it until Johnny Lorenitis (ph), one of our talent relations gentlemen, called her.  And she heard it from work for the first time and then it set in.  She was just very, very emotional.

COSBY:  Yes, JBL, what are you going to remember the most about him?  I mean, this is a man overcame a lot of demons, you know, drinking, self-admittedly, you know—you know, drug use, turned into a born-again Christian, role model for so many people.  How are you going to remember this guy?

LAYFIELD:  What Eddie had to overcome to get things back he wanted so bad—you know, at one point, he lost his family, and he had to overcome a lot of things to get that back.  He had to overcome addiction.  You know, he smelled like smoke because he‘d been through fire.  And he went through all that to get his family back.  And he had just moved to Phoenix, just got the retirement home.

You know, it‘s a terrible tragedy.  I‘ll remember this guy that had overcome so much because of his love for his family.  And I also remember every time he‘d come in the dressing room, he‘d say, What‘s up (INAUDIBLE)  And I‘d sit there and hug him every time I saw him, no matter if I‘d seen him four times in one day.  And he‘s always, What‘s up, (INAUDIBLE)?

COSBY:  Going to remember that smile.

LAYFIELD:  Absolutely.

COSBY:  Got to make sure you say that on Thursday night.

LAYFIELD:  That great sheepish smile of his, that grin he had that he had just stolen your wallet or something.  It was—it was that mischievous grin that only Eddie Guerrero had!  And you just loved him for it.

COSBY:  That‘s beautiful.  Hey, Vince, what are you going to remember

most about him?4

MCMAHON:  His personality.  He—and all of his influences, his positive influences on our audience and on those like JBL and all the rest of us in the locker room.  He was just an extraordinary human being.

COSBY:  And Chavo, obviously, not just your uncle but really, your brother and friend.


COSBY:  How are you going to remember him?

GUERRERO:  You know, I think I‘ll remember his heart and—Eddie always looked out for me.  No matter what happened, whether we were fighting each other or upset at somebody else, he always looked out for me, always had my back.  And now it‘s kind of like I‘m in limbo.  I‘m, like, I don‘t really have anybody like that anymore in my life to actually watch my back, no matter what, you know?  And it‘s going to be a huge adjustment for me.

COSBY:  I was going to say it‘s going to be different, Chavo, I imagine, when you go in the ring, right?

GUERRERO:  Absolutely.  I mean, 100 percent different.  When we were tag team partners together, I knew that we could go against anybody, anybody in the world, because I had him right there next to me.  And hopefully, he felt the same, vice versa, that I had his back, no matter what.  And if I‘m tagging with somebody else, you know, that we‘re not family like me and Eddie were, so I don‘t really know if they‘re going to have my back if a fan runs in the ring or if something happens, you know?  And unfortunately, it‘s something I‘m going to miss tremendously.

COSBY:  Well, it‘s going to be a big loss to all of us.  Thank you very much, all of you.  Thanks for sharing memories of Eddie Guerrero, 38 years old, passed away this weekend.  But boy, a lifetime of legacy for so many fans.  We‘ll be right back.


COSBY:  And we‘ve got two late-breaking developments for you tonight in the search for Natalee Holloway.  We have learned that a mysterious phone call could provide new clues about the whereabouts of the Alabama teen, all this as Aruba‘s deputy police chief gets ready to overhaul the team investigating the Holloway case.

With us right now on the phone tonight is Natalee‘s father, Dave Holloway.  And also with us is polygraph examiner Jamie Skeeters, who has been investigating the case.

Dave, I want to start with you because I asked you this about a month ago, and I understand, we‘ve gotten it confirmed from a number of people, that the FBI is now looking into this, but that a call came I think to Beth, I believe it was, saying that this person was Natalee Holloway.  And this was after Natalee disappeared.  What do you know about that call, Dave?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY‘S FATHER:  Well, I listened to the telephone call, it sounded like maybe it was some kid who had misdialed a telephone number.  They did not say Natalee or anything like that.  I could hear someone in the background just said, Help me, and then hung up.

COSBY:  It was actually recorded, Dave, right? 

HOLLOWAY:  It was recorded, yes. 

COSBY:  And is there any clue that it could be Natalee?  Because I‘m hearing that Beth is not ruling that out, although not leaning that way.

HOLLOWAY:  Well, she listened to the recording, and I did as well. 

And I didn‘t think it had significance. 

COSBY:  Does she think it has any significance, Dave? 

HOLLOWAY:  Well, you know, you‘re always grasping for straws.  And, you know, she was hopeful that that was something, you know, that maybe could be Natalee.  And I listened to it a number of times and, you know, I‘ve got children of my own, and they like to pick up cell phones and make calls and all of this kind of stuff, and I just didn‘t buy it. 

COSBY:  Do you know when that call was made, Dave?  About how long after she disappeared? 

HOLLOWAY:  That was probably made six weeks to two months ago, somewhere around there.  Somewhere around Hurricane Katrina. 

COSBY:  And I understand some of my contacts are saying that the FBI is looking into that.  Do you know if the FBI is putting any credence or where they are in this investigation? 

HOLLOWAY:  No, I don‘t.  They—Beth had them listen to the tape or listen to the recording, and they actually pulled it off the original tape from the cell phone. 

COSBY:  And what did they say in the call, Dave? 

HOLLOWAY:  Basically, you can hear, it sounded like someone had dialed her phone and then you can hear in the background—it sounded like a kid to me that just said mom, help me.

COSBY:  Can you rule out that it is Natalee? 

HOLLOWAY:  Could I rule out what? 

COSBY:  Can you rule out that it is—that, you know, that it‘s not Natalee? 

HOLLOWAY:  Well, I listened to the tape, and it didn‘t sound like her. 

It sound like a young kid. 

COSBY:  Interesting development.  Let me bring in, if I could, you know, Jamie Skeeters.  Where does it stand now with this possibility of her, you know, maybe being alive?  Is there any credence to this call or other things? 

JAMIE SKEETERS, POLYGRAPH EXAMINER:  Well, there‘s always a chance, Rita.  Unless we have a body, we can‘t say for 100 percent that Natalee is no longer with us.  And, yes, I‘m aware of the phone call.  Beth shared that with me.  I didn‘t hear it, but it might be wishful thinking for a mother that‘s looking for her daughter. 

COSBY:  Do you put any stock into the fact that maybe she may be alive?  I understand you also went down to Curacao, in Venezuela, looking in some interesting places.  Where was that investigation?  Where did it take you? 

SKEETERS:  Well, we‘re still right in the middle of that investigation.  I‘ve been all over the country, and unfortunately, because of the “Dr. Phil” show, I can‘t say anything until after his show Thursday but I think you‘re going to be—you‘re going to like what you‘re going to hear in what we‘ve been doing. 

COSBY:  Is it leading in the direction—and again, I know you can‘t talk about the show.  Is it leading though still in the theory, as he came out publicly on Jay Leno, that there‘s a remote chance she‘s alive? 

SKEETERS:  Well, there‘s evidence that other girls have been kidnaped off these islands for sex slavery.  And, you know, with Dr. Phil, when they said—it might convince she‘s dead.  And I said, well, 99 percent of me says, yes.  And he says well, that leaves 1 percent.  Let‘s clean it up.  And that‘s how he is.  And so we‘re trying to clean that up. 

COSBY:  Anything substantial on her or is it other girls? 

SKEETERS:  Nothing I can really say at this time.  We‘re still in the

we‘re still trying to clean things up.  And the girl you‘re talking about, that‘s still in the picture as well. 

COSBY:  And I understand what happened, you know, Jamie, with the FBI tape?  What happened with—you know, it‘s amazing that that audiotape and that conversation—that great interview that you with Deepak—I understand that Holland still hasn‘t confirmed it yet?  Have they actually picked up the tape from you? 

SKEETERS:  Well, no, here it is right here. 

COSBY:  Oh, there it is.  OK.  Now how come they haven‘t picked it up yet, Jamie? 

SKEETERS:  Well, I‘ve talked to Chief Dompig quite a bit.  For some reason we‘ve lost communications for about the last 10 days.  I keep calling but his people hang up on me.  So, I don‘t know what is going on but I do know that he asked me he would love to have the hard drive of my computer that has Deepak‘s confession on it, so to speak.  And nothing yet so I‘ve been in contact with the FBI.

And as of tonight, about two hours ago, I was contacted by the Ventura department of the FBI who is in the process of picking this tape up tomorrow with or without their request at this time so they can be ready. 

COSBY:  Oh, that‘s great.  OK, both of you if you could stick with us, Jamie and also Dave, because I want to bring in right now on the phone—from Aruba is Julia Renfro.  She‘s with “Aruba Today” newspaper.  Julia, I understand you have some new details about what‘s happening with the investigation team?  It‘s beefing up? 

JULIA RENFRO, “ARUBA TODAY” NEWSPAPER:  Yes, Rita, good evening. 

COSBY:  Good evening. 

RENFRO:  This afternoon I spoke to Commissioner Dompig.  And he told me that there‘s been quite a few meetings Monday as well as today.  And there‘s a confirmation of three new detectives that will be joining the investigative team. 

COSBY:  Who are these detectives?  Do you know who they are and why are they being pulled in, Julia? 

RENFRO:  Well, they haven‘t actually given the names as of this date.  But the reason why—there was a bit of an uproar this weekend in the prosecutor/investigative team department and they had some discussions and a decision was made that people would not be leaving the team, but that new people would be joining the team. 

COSBY:  That‘s interesting.  Let me bring in Dave Holloway.  Dave, you know, with all the word of the boycott that‘s come down, obviously a lot of pressure, all of these letters back-and-forth that you and Beth have been doing, do you feel like maybe you‘re making headway?  Now it sounds like they‘re forced to put some new folks on the team it sounds like. 

HOLLOWAY:  Well, you know, we‘ve seen those cards played before. 

They‘ve added people to the team and taken people off.  That‘s nothing new.  In fact, when I was down there a month ago, I was introduced to a couple of other new detectives and it sounds like to me it‘s just a rotating circus around the individuals that we feel like that should step aside. 

It‘s very simple.  Three or four people, a couple of detectives and a secretary, and manage these people out of the prosecutor‘s office or an independent location and that would throw water on all of this. 

COSBY:  Absolutely.  Well, hopefully—look, hopefully, the fact that they‘re adding somebody and, Jamie, I do hope they pick up that tape finally tomorrow.  And hopefully Dompig will return your calls.  It‘s sounds like he‘s been talking to the reporter there.  I hope he talks to all of you.  Thank you, very, very much. 

And still ahead, everybody, late-breaking details on the manhunt for two convicted killers who made a daring escape from prison.  Cops say these two have nothing to lose and they‘re very dangerous.  The mother of one of them joins me live. 

And now that the cell phone bandit was caught, do we finally know who she was talking to?  Stay tuned.


COSBY:  An all-points bulletin tonight for two convicted murderers who escaped from a maximum security prison in Iowa.  The escape happened last night at the Iowa state penitentiary in Fort Madison.  Both men managed to climb over a prison wall. 

Thirty-four-year-old Martin Moon is serving a life sentence for first degree murder; 27-year-old Robert Legendre is serving a life sentence for kidnapping, a weapons offense, and also murder. 

LIVE & DIRECT tonight is Connie Fowler.  She‘s the mother of escaped inmate Martin Moon.  Also here is former Florida prison warden Ron McAndrew.

Connie, I want to start with you, because your son—how did you find out that he had escaped? 

CONNIE FOWLER, MOTHER OF ESCAPED INMATE:  I had a call last night at about 10:00 from my mother. 

COSBY:  What was your reaction? 

FOWLER:  I was in total shock. 

COSBY:  I bet, when was the last time you spoke to your son? 

FOWLER:  I believe it was about three weeks ago, that my mother and I both went up to Fort Madison to visit. 

COSBY:  How long—he‘s been in prison, right?  He‘s been there since what, 2000?  Is that correct? 

FOWLER:  Right. 

COSBY:  Why do you think he tried to escape now? 

FOWLER:  I don‘t know, unless he‘s just getting totally discouraged with waiting on his lawyers to get an appeal for a second trial. 

COSBY:  And what—did he say anything to you three weeks ago when you talked to him? 

FOWLER:  No, he didn‘t.  That‘s why it surprises me so much that this has happened. 

COSBY:  You know, I bet.  Let me bring in Ron, if I could, because you know, we know that Connie‘s son and the other guy went over the wall.  How often does that happen?  This is a maximum security prison.  Ron McAndrew? 

RON MCANDREW, FORMER FLORIDA PRISON WARDEN;  Hello, Miss Rita.  Well, you know, state prison agencies across the country have this happen from time to time.  But in the same breath, let me say that state prison agencies across this country have very visible Band-Aids that represent emergency funding following incidents such as this, following mass escapes, following riots, and invests in prisons. 

COSBY:  Mr. McAndrew, what do you attribute it to?  Lack of funds in this case?  We‘re hearing that one of the towers may have been empty.  There was a report of that.  Is that a lack of funding?  

MCANDREW:  Well, I‘m not the warden of that particular prison, and I cannot speak to that particular tower, but I can tell you that on a regular basis around this country, towers are often vacated, because they simply don‘t have the staff to staff the towers with, and at certain hours of the day, when they feel the escape risk is less, staff is removed to accommodate other needs in the prison.  I personally feel this may have been what happened up in Iowa.   

COSBY:  It sounds like, yeah, this is tragic.  Of course, people are so concerned when you see two folks that have murder on their list (ph).

You know, Connie, your son is one of these folks—we‘re looking at a picture of him and the other guy who escaped.  Where do you think your son may be headed?

FOWLER:  I really wouldn‘t have any idea. 

COSBY:  Do you—how concerned should we be?  Obviously, he‘s got violence in his background.  For folks that are out there, what advice do you have for them?  And if your son is watching now, what would you want to say to him?  Because police and law enforcement, you know, they are not going to take any chances if they come upon him. 

FOWLER:  Yeah, I hear them saying they believe that they are armed and dangerous.  I have a hard time thinking of him in those terms, as being armed, but I don‘t believe he‘d hurt anyone.  And I don‘t really know the other fellow at all. 

And I would just like to say that, Marty, we love you and we would like to see you go ahead and turn yourself back in, and go through the proper channels to get an appeal for another trial.  I know you‘re discouraged and everything, but please, son, turn yourself back in.  Please, for your sake and ours. 

COSBY:  And, Connie, I do hope he‘s watching right now as we put a picture up.  And obviously the best advice for him right now and for everybody.   Thank you very much, Connie.  We appreciate you being here and also Mr. McAndrew too, thank you. 

MCANDREW:  You‘re welcome. 

COSBY:  And now to a teenager accused of killing his girlfriend‘s mother and also father. 

He‘s been leading police on a cross-country manhunt.  Eighteen-year-old David Ludwig is back in Pennsylvania tonight, where he will face murder charges for killing the parents of his 14-year-old girlfriend, Kara Beth Borden.  Police say she‘s also back in Pennsylvania with her relatives, and that she‘s considered the victim in the case, unless they get any information to the contrary. 

Joining us now is George Cardinale.  He is a former New York City police detective. 

You know, Joe, first of all, what do you make of what has happened?  It sounds like they‘re now ruling her out as playing a role, but leaving the window open just in case, right? 

JOE CARDINALE, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE:  Oh, definitely.  You don‘t want to make her a suspect, you know, if you need her cooperation to get some information.  You know, she‘s not considered a suspect.  So it‘ll be a lot easier to speak to her and not interrogate her, but just to speak to her with a guardian present. 

COSBY:  You know, Joe, one of the things we heard is that the parents were upset because they violated a curfew.  He was out, you know, 18 years old, out with a 14-year-old, then he comes back and brings these guns.  Do you believe there‘s maybe more to it than just a curfew issue?  What do you think is behind all of this? 

CARDINALE:  You know, I would like to say—you know, you don‘t know.  I mean, we‘ve had so many instances where, you know, something like this happens.  What does it take to set somebody off?  It doesn‘t take much.  All right?  And he comes into the house, you know, the father is having an argument with him for the better part of an hour, according to the younger sister, and then he kills both the mother and the father, and then she leaves with him.  How she left with him is going to be the question.  Did she leave voluntarily, or did he point the gun at her and say, you know, come on, let‘s go, you‘re coming with me and take her at gunpoint?  You know, these are things that will have to be answered. 

COSBY:  You know, we‘ve been reading a lot about the Internet.  We showed some of the sort of Internet exchanges between the two.  There‘s some reports today that they had sort of some sexual conversations, maybe showing the intensity of their relationship, also maybe even some photos—there‘s some reports of that.  How is the Internet going to play in maybe some of the own words coming back to get him? 

CARDINALE:  Oh, they‘re going to take all that.  I think they‘re going to get his computer.  They‘ll go into the hard drive.  Also, you know, she‘s 14 years old.  He‘s 18.  So there‘s definitely concerns there.  And, you know, there may have been laws broken along those lines, you know?  And as every D.B. might say, you know, it‘s just something you have to check out.  It‘s something that you have to get into it, you know, you know, into the hard drive—you have to get into him a little bit, you know, and naturally he‘s lawyered up by now.  But until then, you don‘t know what statements he may have made. 

And everything that‘s in the past, everything that he has on that hard drive, all those e-mails, they are definitely going to come into play in this case. 

COSBY:  And now they have got a paper trail too and an e-mail trail as well. 

CARDINALE:  Most definitely.

COSBY:  Thank you.  Joe, thanks so much. 

CARDINALE:  You‘re welcome, Rita.

COSBY:  Appreciate it.

And still ahead, everybody, cops finally hung up on the cell phone bandit, but do we know who she was talking to during her heist?  Here she is. 

And only real men make the cut when it comes to “GQ‘s” men of the year issue, right?  Not so fast.  We‘ll tell you why everyone is talking about the pick, and who he or she is coming up. 


COSBY:  And the woman wanted in connection with a string of bank robberies in Northern Virginia is now behind bars.  Candice Rose Martinez, better known as the cell phone bandit, was arrested early this morning.  LIVE & DIRECT tonight is a man who took Martinez into custody, FBI special agent Ron Chavarro.  And also here is Sheriff Steve Simpson from Loudoun County, Virginia. 

Special Agent, let me start with you.  What finally sort of broke this case?  How did you come upon her? 

SPECIAL AGENT DON CHAVARRO, FBI:  Well, Rita, it was actually a culmination of several exhaustive weeks of investigative efforts by multiple law enforcement agencies that actually yielded information of several individuals that were potentially assisting Ms. Martinez in her fugitive status. 

COSBY:  Yes, my understanding is you sort of came upon a car.  Who did this car belong to?  Why was it of interest to the FBI? 

CHAVARRO:  It was of interest because the investigation, again, yielded information that the individual who the car was registered to was attempting to assist Ms. Martinez in eluding law enforcement and leaving the Washington metropolitan area. 

COSBY:  Now, is this the boyfriend?  I know it‘s coming out that there was a boyfriend.  Is that who was involved, and was that what led back to his house? 

CHAVARRO:  Well, the actual location out in Fairfax County was the location where we knew that Ms. Martinez had friends.  The actual vehicle was associated—was actually registered to Ms. Martinez‘ boyfriend‘s brother. 

COSBY:  All right.  And you know, let me bring in the sheriff, because, Sheriff, do we know, first of all, what charges is she facing?  And what sort of a mood, where is she now? 

SHERIFF STEPHEN SIMPSON, LOUDOUN COUNTY, VA:  Well, at this point, she is being held in Fairfax County jail without bond, and she‘s being held on the Loudoun County robbery charge and on the Fairfax County charge. 

COSBY:  What kind of time could she face, Sheriff? 

SIMPSON:  Well, if you add all these together, she could be looking at many years, maybe even as much as life.  If you add all these charges together, they probably will come down the pike, and also maybe the use of a firearm in the commission of a felony.  There‘s a lot of different things that could add onto this case as time goes on. 

There‘s the other robberies that need to be investigated as well, and looked into, as far as any federal charges or anything like that goes.  So it could be very significant by the time this is over with. 

COSBY:  And, Sheriff, do we know who she was talking with?  We saw these pictures of her on the cell phone in all the robberies.  Was she talking to somebody?

SIMPSON:  Well, it‘s my understanding she was talking to her boyfriend, but the content of the conversation we don‘t know, and don‘t know whether they were engaged in a conversation the entire time that she was on the phone, or appeared to be on the phone.  So we are not 100 percent sure on all that yet, but that will certainly come out as the interviews continue. 

COSBY:  And Agent Chavarro, did she say anything to you when she was taken into custody? 

CHAVARRO:  No, she didn‘t make any overt statements.  She was compliant, and she was subsequently interviewed back at the Fairfax County Police Department. 

COSBY:  All right.  Well, gentlemen, thank you very much.  Good job, it‘s nice to see an ending like this on the case of the cell phone bandit.  We have been covering this for a few days. 

Gentlemen, thank you very much, both of you. 

And still ahead, what do these guys have to do with “GQ‘s” man of the year?  We‘ll tell you about the magazine‘s controversial pick.  It will surprise you. 



JENNIFER ANISTON, ACTRESS:  Oh, I am drinking you under the bar, mister. 


ANISTON:  Yes.  And I bet I can do it in three drinks. 

OWEN:  You like to gamble? 

ANISTON:  It‘s not really gambling when you never lose. 

OWEN:  I got a bet.



COSBY:  Well, if you think one of this year‘s “GQ” men of the year looks like a woman, that‘s because she is.  Jennifer Aniston is “GQ” magazine‘s first ever woman to appear on the cover of man of the year issue.  Actor Vince Vaughn, rumored to be Aniston‘s significant other, and also rapper 50 Cent also share as “GQ‘s” top honorees. 

Joining us to discuss this year‘s gender bending is “GQ” magazine‘s editor Mark Healy.  Mark, you know, why a woman, and why Jennifer Aniston? 

MARK HEALY, ARTICLES EDITOR, GQ:  Well, it‘s been 10 years we have been doing man of the year, and we figured we could break rules, break our own rules once in a while, and you know, we figured we could bend the rules for someone as deserving as Jen is, and for the year that she has had. 

COSBY:  She‘s had an incredible year.  Of course, a lot of people have been talking with her about her relationship and her fallout with Brad Pitt. 

I want to show a little clip of what she said in an interview with “Access Hollywood.” 


ANISTON:  (INAUDIBLE) twice, don‘t do it.  If you—you know, I think it—well, you know, there‘s definitely—I mean, I think it‘s pretty obvious, you know, you kind of go through something like this, you make one bad mistake, and it‘s sort of instant karma. 


COSBY:  Talking about infidelity.  You know, Mark, is part of it that she sort of just has handled this with such class? 

HEALY:  Yes, she handled it with great poise and integrity, and you don‘t see that often enough, I don‘t think, these days.  And also, you know, she kept her mouth shut.  She rose above the fray a little bit, and then she went back to work, and she didn‘t trash anyone.  She handled herself really well, and she maintained the kind of poise that, you know, one of the—that we love her for. 

COSBY:  You know, some of the other folks, obviously you have the other two, 50 Cent the rapper, and also actor Vince Vaughn, who‘s sort of been rumored to be her significant other.  Is this sort of couple of the year, really, because you get Vince Vaughn and her, that‘s pretty incredible. 

HEALY:  As far as I know, they are not a couple.  I mean, we booked this a long time ago.  We were talking about Vince in April, when one of my colleagues first saw “Wedding Crashers,” and after we saw how great that was, and more editors and more staffers saw the movie and loved it, we decided—you know, we booked Vince a long time ago.

But at the time, the rumors of these were really insignificant, and, you know, we don‘t take our—we don‘t take cues from tabloids on this kind of information.  As far as I am concerned, until they are ready to talk about it, they are not really a couple.  You know, depends on how you define a relationship, I think. 

COSBY:  Yeah, absolutely.  Absolutely, and you‘re right, it hasn‘t come out public, even though a lot of folks of course are talking about it. 

Brad Pitt, was he a contender for man of the year? 

HEALY:  I think Brad Pitt is always a contender for anything that you

you know, any sort of list, any—you know, we are a men‘s magazine, and he is always going to be a contender for anything we do in terms of acting, in terms of...

COSBY:  Absolutely. 

HEALY:  Yeah, so.

COSBY:  And Mark, we got to go, unfortunately, but you got to include Brad Pitt in that list too.  Thank you very much.

HEALY:  OK, thank you.

COSBY:  And I‘m sure everyone is going to watch the magazine and look at it.  Thank you.

And that does it for me.  Joe starts right now.


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