Guest: Michael Beschloss; Yale Galanter
JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC ANCHOR, SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY: Hey, thanks so much Rita and welcome to “Scarborough Country,” no passport required, only common sense allowed. Tonight, the Duke defense team is on the attack. We have very exclusive photos of the alleged crime scene and the alleged victim smiling.
Then Bush boots his brain out of the White House and tells McClellan to get marching. Can the president do anything short of firing himself to improve his dreadful polls?
And why does the FBI want to seize a dead reporter's notes? It's a story Jack Anderson would have loved and we have it straight ahead. But first, it's a story you could have read 25 years ago. Rich white elites hurt an African American. The incidents inflame biracial charges and (INAUDIBLE) district attorney seeking re-election cashes in on the crisis, all the while the press corps morphs the story into a full-blown scandal. That plot line, straight out of Tom Wolfe's novel, “Bonfire of the Vanities.” But a quarter century later, a new bonfire is rising, not in the Bronx, but this time at Duke University, also the setting for Mr. Wolfe's most recent novel, which is an indictment on big-time college sports. Tonight, indictments involve two Duke lacrosse players whose high-priced attorneys are now doing their best to shift suspicions toward the campaigning DA and the alleged African-American victim.
Defense attorneys claim they have photos, phone records, ATM receipts and eyewitnesses that will all get their clients off the hook. Will the alibis hold water where it counts, inside the courtroom? Let's go live now to MSNBC's Rita Cosby who has another exclusive tonight, this time an interview with a taxi driver who drove one of the suspects home from the party where the terrible attack allegedly occurred. Rita, what have you learned from the taxi driver?
COSBY: It is a double hedged sword Joe, because on one hand, the cabdriver really helped one particular suspect, Reade Seligmann, He's of course one of the sophomores who is now being charged in the Duke rape case. And what he says is he got a call on that night in March, that's April 9th and he got a call at 12:14 in the morning, picked him up around the corner along with another guy at 12:19 and then they went out to an ATM machine where he needed some cash. Then they took some take-out food and then he took them home. He said he remembers them because he spent about 30 minutes with them and it was quite memorable.
They left food all over the place and gave him a very nice tip, so it helps Reade Seligmann. But the other hand, this guy also said that after he dropped off Reade Seligmann and the other boy, then he went on another call and went back to the house. He said at 1:01 a.m. he got another call, went to the house and that there were a lot of boys in front, that they appeared to be drunk, appeared to be out of control. And he said when they got in the cab, they said something prettying damning. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I remember the one guy said in a loud voice, she is just a stripper.
COSBY: She is just a stripper
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I further asked him, what do you think they meant by that? Were they angry at her? Did something horrible happen? He said I couldn't read it but I got the impression that they were mad at her for some reason and maybe something bad happened. Read into that what you will Joe, but it's pretty interesting that they were talking about being angry at the stripper. And again, these are four guys, not any of the ones involved at this point, just the other two, Reade Seligmann and the other boy. Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, Rita, the big news tonight, if you look at that testimony, if you look at the ATM records, if you look at the phone records, if you look at the records when this young man used his key pad, key card to get back into his dorm room. He does have an air-tight alibi which leads to the question, why in the world did the DA arrest him?
COSBY: It is an interesting question. It seems right now, if you look at everything that the cabdriver has, show the record, he said I am absolutely positive. I looked at him and I said is there any shade of doubt in your mind it was somebody else? He said no. We also looked, there was a phone number too that he has listed, where the call comes through. It was a cell known number. My producer called that number and sure enough Reade Seligmann picked up, so that number is an accurate number for Reade Seligmann.
He also was visited by his father and the defense team. The big question is, you're right. How did the DA put this together? We know one piece of information Joe, was that this woman did pinpoint these boys in a photo lineup. She was shown a whole bunch of pictures of Duke lacrosse players, pinpointed Reade Seligmann and the other boy and we know that that is at least one of the things connecting them to this case. The question is, is that enough? Right now, if you look at the cab deliver it certainly isn't.
SCARBOROUGH: No it certainly isn't Rita, especially when you consider that she was drugged that night, whether she took the drugs or whether somebody put a drug into her drink. Both sides agree that she was intoxicated. For some reason, it certainly does not look good for the DA when it comes to Mr. Seligmann. Thanks so much Rita, greatly appreciate that reporting. You've done it again.
Let's move now to MSNBC's Dan Abrams. Dan has obtained exclusive photos from the party where the exotic dancer says she was raped by the three Duke lacrosse players. These pictures will prove friends, I'm sure they will to be critical, because lawyers for the defense team say they establish a timeline that proves their clients couldn't have committed the crime. Watch this.
DAN ABRAMS, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: The accuser says she went out to her car she was coaxed back into the house, then and taken into the bathroom and brutally raped. But lawyers for the players say the pictures tell a different story. The men say the dancers locked themselves in the bathroom, then left around 10 minutes later. The accuser returned they say around 12:30 to retrieve a shoe that had came off during her dance. A neighbor also reported seeing a quote, skimpily-dressed woman around the same time talking about a missing shoe. Most important according to the defense, this photo of the accuser 30 seconds later. She appears to be smiling, her clothes intact. They say she could not have been brutally raped before smiling at almost 12:31.
Just over seven minutes later, the accuser is seen lying on the top of this stoop leaving only a seven-minute window they say for what she initially said was a 30 minute rape. The final photo from 12:41 appears to show the two women leaving. Even if a rape could have occurred between 12:31 and 12:38, the defense lawyers say, the two men arrested certainly could not have done it. They say Colin Finnerty (ph) was not even at the house when the women were dancing, and that none of the photos of some 25 men include Finnerty. And while Reade Seligmann is in some pictures, they say they can prove he left shortly after the women stopped dancing and well before 12:31 a.m.
The defense team says his phone records will show a call to the girlfriend at 12:07, then one to a cab company at 12:14. According to the lawyers, they can prove he was picked up around 12:19. Five minutes later, the cab stopped at a bank where he withdrew cash. And this is the key—his transaction receipt is dated 12:24 a.m. according to the defense. They are hoping the ATM surveillance video will further bolster that claim. They say they ordered take-out food and at 12:46 swiped his university card at his dorm when he returned home. And the defense claims there's another way the party photos could help Seligmann and man of the other young men seen at the party. The district attorney has suggested the accuser struggled with the attackers, so much so that her artificial fingernails broke off. So why was none of their DNA found under her fingernails?
MIKE NIFONG, DURHAM DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Evidence that she would present with respect to that particular situation is that she was grabbed from behind. Now as you can see from my arm, if I were wearing a shirt, a long-sleeve shirt or a jacket of some sort, even if there were enough force used to press down to break my skin through the clothing, there might not be any way that anything from my arm could get under those fingernails.
ABRAMS: The problem? Reade Seligmann and just about every other young man at the party is seen wearing a short-sleeved shirt. What is still unclear is how much of this, of these claims did the DA know about before the indictment? And the more important question is, is it going to matter? Is this going to change anything in terms of what he does now? Joe?
SCARBOROUGH: Thanks a lot, Dan, MSNBC's Dan Abrams. Now with all the alibis coming out from the defense side, is the prosecution's case already crumbling? Earlier I spoke to former presidential candidate Al Sharpton and asked him if groups in Durham like the NAACP still believe the accuser.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. AL SHARPTON: The leadership that I spoke to feel that she is telling the truth and they feel that beyond a shadow of a doubt, something happened and clearly the prosecutor must believe that. You are not talking now about an investigation that has not already resulted with indictments. You now have the elected prosecutor of that county saying that he believes a crime was committed and he's going to take at least two, maybe more to trial.
SCARBOROUGH: Talk about this drip, drip, drip of evidence against the accuser.
SHARPTON: Well first of all, I think the problem that you have is that here is a young lady who was in the United States Navy, was married, mother of two, going to Central University there, North Carolina Central. It's going to be kind of hard to say even if she was the worst person and clearly she is not, someone that comes out of the Navy with that back ground, that you therefore have the right to violate her. And we now saying we live in a nation that based on who you are, you have the right to be raped or not? I mean I think it's absurd.
SCARBOROUGH: They are finally talking about what you are hearing again from these leaders and what you are observing yourself on how race is playing a factor in this case.
SHARPTON: I think that on one side, there has been the allegation racial language was used. There is the whole cynical thing of them saying they were some basketball team or a track team so they could try to get black dancers. On the other hand, I have been really watching how many of the crowds, Joe, that have had vigils on behalf of the young lady have been black and white students. And I think that from what we have been able to see, from a national view looking from the outside, a lot of people have come together saying no woman should be raped of any race or any status. And I think that that is a good thing. And I think that it will hold through the trial if people cooperating and working together.
SCARBOROUGH: No doubt. Regardless of the outcome, that certainly is a positive development. Reverend Al Sharpton, as always thanks a lot for being with us.
SHARPTON: Thank you Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: And with us now from Durham is sophomore Emily (INAUDIBLE) . She's a close friend of Reade Seligmann, one of the few players charged in the case. Also with us, criminal defense attorney Yale Galander. Yale, I want to start with you. It certainly looks like all of Reade's friends tonight have to be a bit more hopeful on how this case is going to turn out. It looks like this young man may have an air-tight alibi. And if in fact he does, why would the DA have indicted this guy? Why would he have pressed charges against guy when it seems like he's got all the phone records, the AMT records. He's got this taxicab driver. He has got the time that he re-entered the dorm. It doesn't seem possible he could have committed this rape.
YALE GALANTER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Joe, I've never seen such an air-tight alibi in my entire career. We've got the cabdriver testimony. We've got the cabdriver's computer records. We've got the cell phone records. We've got the ATM records. And in the next day or two the defense expects to have a picture, time-stamped from the ATM machine proving without any shadow of a doubt that Reade Seligmann could not have been at the house when this young woman is alleging that a rape occurred.
SCARBOROUGH: Yale, if you have all that evidence in front of you, and you are the DA., why do you bring these charges against the young man? Let's play devil's advocate for a minute. Maybe, just maybe, a DA can explain all this away in front of a jury, but this DA it seems, didn't even know that evidence was out there before he brought the charges.
GALANER: Joe, I don't think there is a shot in a million that Mr. Nifong is going to be able to can explain this. I think what happened here was there really was a rush to get the case in front of this particular grand jury because this grand jury was sitting before the primary election and there wouldn't be another one. He had a complaining witness who picked out two people out of a group photograph and said these are the two men that raped me in the bathroom with absolutely, positively no cooperation linking these two young men to the crime. He went ahead in front of that grand jury, got these heinous, heinous charges against them, made the family go out and hire lawyers, post $400,000 bond. I have never seen such a travesty of justice in my entire career.
SCARBOROUGH: It looks like it is blowing up in the DA's face and he's got an election coming up very soon. Emily you are wearing a shirt that says innocent until proven guilty. Do you feel like the media and other members of the Duke University campus have already judged your friend Reade is guilty before giving him a chance to get his story out?
I think when the results came out that it was Reade and Colin that were being allegedly convicted with these charges, that people were immediately looking at these mug shots seeing bigger, taller lacrosse players and saying oh, they look like they could be a rapist, that this could have possibly have happened. What my friends and I are trying to do by wearing these shirts, by talking to the media is to get out there that first and foremost, as an American citizen you have a right to be judged—
I mean to be innocent until proven guilty and that needs to be remembered by people making unjust claims and by the media taking whatever angle they are deciding to take. Furthermore, by being a close, personal friend with Reade, Colin and Reade's girlfriend, without a shadow of a doubt, believe that both of them are innocent and have undeniable characters.
SCARBOROUGH: All right Emily, thank you so much and obviously a lot of the evidence that is before us that is coming out tonight may prove that you are exactly right about Reade. Thank you and we thank you Yale. And coming up next, shoot the messenger. Scott McClellan, the president's messenger gets a message of his own, leave now.
And Bush (INAUDIBLE) his brain from the White House. It's a right. And if you believe that, well, you may believe the story about how the FBI is doing all it can to see a dead reporter's lifetime of notes. Just what did Jack Anderson know that is now so important to the FBI? We ask his biographer that straight ahead.
SCARBOROUGH: Was it a white wash at the White House or just spring cleaning at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. We are told there was a big shake up inside the White House today, with President Bush demoting his right hand man Karl Rove. I remain skeptical. Also today the president's spokesman Scott McClellan announced his retirement and even if McClellan was pushed out as some are saying, it would seem time to congratulate the man who still holds Washington's worst job, White House press secretary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT McCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I would be glad to answer your question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this kind of accidental shooting a possible criminal offense?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has he taken a hunting safety course?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it proper for the vice-president to offer his resignation or has he offered his resignation?
McCLELLAN: That is an absurd question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: didn't the Corpus Christi paper.(INAUDIBLE) a member of the AP.
McCLELLAN: I am sure they are. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: president lie to you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who does the press secretary work for? Does he work for the press, because the president realistically thinks that there is a chance that he can avoid an impeachment inquiry in the House of Representatives?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Considering the fact that the president lied to the American people directly and through his support over a period of seven or eight months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: . partial statement. You all got the statement I made earlier and it speaks for itself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE:I feel like I am double parked in a no comment zone.
(INAUDIBLE) get off this podium as quick as possible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have a good afternoon.
SCARBOROUGH: (INAUDIBLE) McCurry. Talking about the White House shakeup, let's bring in NBC news presidential historian Michael Beschloss, David Gergen. He's been the advisor to four presidents and MSNBC political analyst and presidential adviser Pat Buchanan. Michael, let's begin with you. Obviously the Washington clich’ for this type of move is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Do you think the president did that today or did he actually move beyond symbolism?
MICHAEL BESCHLOSS, NBC NEWS PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I don't even think it was that symbolic Joe. I mean you look at other changes in history that really were symbolic. We've got Pat and David. When Pat was in the Nixon administration in 1973, Nixon fired his top aides Haldeman and Ehrlichman, he was saying I'm going to change the climate that led to Watergate. And then you see something like Ronald Reagan, whom David Gergen and Pat served in the 1980's at the time of Iran contra. He fired Don Regan and hired Howard Baker, said I'm going to change the White House that may have caused Iran contra. That was symbolism. I don't see much of that today.
SCARBOROUGH: You know David Gergen, I remember when you were appointed to the Clinton White House and the first thing I said. I turned to my chief of staff and I said oh, my God, they are bringing adults into the White House. Where are the adults in Washington today that George W. Bush can bring into the White House? You were brought in I believe in '93, Howard Baker, 1987. Who is out there now that George Bush could bring onboard?
I think the people he has brought in, Josh Bolten coming in. Josh Bolten is a first-rate individual. He is very strong, helps out with Goldman Sachs. He's got a strong background. He is as qualified as you're going to over in that job. And it's a good move by the president. Rob Portman is very strong. So there are others here. Susan Schwab. I think they are good people. I think their issue is two things. One, they are all from inside. So they are moving around. So there is no freshness in that sense. But more importantly, even as you put good people in place, there is no indication that the president himself wants to change the way he governs or change his policies. So to a very significant degree, we've got a lot of old wine in new bottles.
SCARBOROUGH: And Pat Buchanan, David Gergen hit it. The thing about George W. Bush is he's basically been working with the same people since he was elected governor in 1994. What made David's Gergen's appointment so dramatic, what make Howard Baker's appointment so dramatic for Reagan, he was going outside the same circle. Is George Bush capable of doing that?
PAT BUCHANAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: That is a very good question.
I don't know if he is Joe. The Bush folks are very loyal to their people. They rely on a set group of people. They return to them regularly. I remember Nixon. When Nixon, when he came in, he not only brought in Pat Moynihan, a Democrat, Henry Kissinger, Rockefeller's foreign policy guy, when our economic policies didn't seem to be working with the public in 1970. 1971 he brings in the Democratic governor of Texas, John Connolly, who took Texas away from him. He would reach out to big people on the outside. Now there are people, I think, who could help the president in this area. But the truth is, David is right. I think Josh Bolten is a very sharp fellow, obviously budget director and everything. But they all know the president. They have all been with the president. He is picking people with whom he is comfortable.
SCARBOROUGH: And Michael, again, let's talk about dramatic selections. Ronald Reagan, 1980, Taps whose, James Baker, a guy who didn't work with him during the '80 campaign. James Baker probably, his most effective staff member of the entire eight years.
Reagan had been the campaign manager for George Bush '41in the spring of 1980 running against Ronald Reagan. Reagan was willing to do what it took. But at the same time, Reagan was a little bit passive as I think my two colleagues tonight will degree. 1985 -This is network news.
BUCHANAN: Don't say that. That is when I came in, in 1985.
BESCHLOSS: That is a case where he was not passive, he actively obviously worked for (INAUDIBLE). What I was thinking of, was after he gets this landslide re-election, 1984, Jim Baker, the White House chief of staff, Don Regan, who's the Treasury secretary comes to him and say we have negotiated between ourselves. We want to trade jobs. Ok with you? Reagan said fine, had very fateful consequences.
SCARBOROUGH: It certainly did and David Gergen, I want to carry this through again talking about George Bush in the comfort zone. Do you think it denotes a weakness in leadership that George Bush isn't able to go outside this same, small group of people that he has been with since 1994? If loyalty to a fault?
GERGEN: I think it works well in good times. I think in tough times I think you need some heavyweights around, some of whom may not agree with you. If this is the end of the line on the changes and there are no heavyweights coming into the administration from the outside, they need a heavyweight in domestic foreign policy formulation. They have got guys who can execute but now, they don't have somebody who's as imaginative say as Pat Moynihan that Pat just talked about with Nixon or Joe Califano, who was with LBJ. You can go down, Michael Beschloss can go through a long litany of those and they a heavyweight over at the Treasury Department. There is too much, there's too much so far about improving the salesmanship and not enough about improving the content of what they are doing.
SCARBOROUGH: And Pat Buchanan, the reason why it is important to get a heavyweight in there is because if you are David Gergen, you go into the Clinton administration. You had people that worked on the campaign. They're going to be sniping at you. You have to be powerful enough and respected enough in Washington that you can get your way with the president just like David Gergen was able to do for an important period of time, just like Howard Baker was able to do, to stand Ronald Reagan down on Iran contra, right.
BUCHANAN: I think Michael's got a very good point about Iran Contra and Howard Baker. Let me tell you something, I was there in that transition, I left with Don Regan voluntarily, I left voluntarily but I don't think Ronald Reagan reached out to Howard Baker. I think Howard Baker was sold to him by the first lady and (INAUDIBLE) and others. And Reagan basically acquiesced in these changes. I think Clinton went out and got David Gergen because he knew him.
I think it was not imposed, but it was somebody who was brought to Reagan and he accepted him. But do I agree with David here, that look, they're going to have to have changes obviously in the congressional liaison. But I don't expect a powerful figure. And none of the line jobs that have to see the president - there's only about five of them, is other than a loyalist to George W. Bush. The one change you're going to get outside, and everybody sort of agrees is the secretary of the Treasury. And you hear rumors that he might pick from inside the Bush entourage there.
SCARBOROUGH: Probably will. Pat Buchanan. Thanks so much, Pat, David Gergen, Michael Beschloss, greatly appreciate you all being us with tonight.
And when we come back, new arrests out of Aruba. This as we hear a secret police recording of the three prime suspects in that case. And the Tom Cruise baby is here. Meanwhile, Brooke Shields has a baby of her own. She and Tom continue their child care feud. . all about that when “Scarborough Country” returns.
Gangland violence sweeps across Las Vegas. We're going to show you some amazing video straight ahead.
Plus, is it a coincidence that Tom Cruise and actress Brooke Shields both have children the same day? The feud continues. We'll tell you about that also when “Scarborough Country” return.
But first, here's the latest news you and your family need to know.
COLETTE CASSIDY, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Colette Cassidy. Here's what's happening.
About a half-dozen people, whose relatives were killed in the September 11 attacks, testified today for confessed 9/11 terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui at his death penalty trial. A woman, who's son was killed at the World Trade Center, told jurors, quote, “We do not want to get caught in a whirlpool of sadness and anger.”
Last week nearly four dozen 9/11 survivors or relatives of victims testified for the prosecution.
Prosecutors have finished cross-examining former Enron CEO Jeff Skillings at this fraud and conspiracy trial. Their two and a half days of questioning were marked by often testy exchanges. Skillings codefendant, Enron founder Ken Lay, could begin testifying as early as Monday.
And oil prices closed at a record high for a third straight day today. Crude climbed another 82 cents, ending the day at $72.17 a barrel. Helping push the oil prices higher, a government report showing gasoline supplies dropped this past week by an unexpectedly large 5.4 million barrels.
Those are your headlines. I'm Colette Cassidy. Now, back to “Scarborough Country.”
SCARBOROUGH: The school gives awards for students who show up for school. Prizes like free movie tickets simply for attending classes.
And Tom and Katie bring a baby into the world the same day as Brooke Shields. Well, it may be fate. We'll tell you about it.
Welcome back to “Scarborough Country.” We're going to be talking about those stories in just a minute.
But first, with all of the focus on a new suspect now sitting in jail in Aruba, MSNBC has obtained a transcript of a conversation between the three prime suspects in the Natalee Holloway investigation.
Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers, Deepak and Satish. According to police in Aruba, the conversation was recorded last June 29, one month after Natalee vanished.
We're going to speak live with Natalee's mom in just a second.
But first, for more on those transcripts and what they can mean to the investigation. Let's go live now to Aruba with NBC's Michelle Kosinski who joins us on the videophone.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
SCARBOROUGH: Michelle, tell us about these transcripts.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Joe.
Today a top Aruban police official confirmed that, yes, this is a real transcript translated from the original Dutch, and that this conversation really did take place while the three of them were in custody. And then left along together.
When you read it, that's where the argument starts. They're fighting with each other to the point of screaming. Accusing each other of lying to police. And at times, accusing one another of doing something to Natalee, but they never say exactly. And at no point in this transcript does any one of them indicate that they know what happened to her.
They take issue with each other for the statements they gave to police also. At one point, Deepak says to Joran van der Sloot, “They're going to give you 15 years if they find the girl.” Joran says, “For what? For what?” Deepak, “The scholarship of yours, ah, you can forget it.” And Joran says, “Yes, because of who? Because of you, Mongol. You well know that you did bad, otherwise you wouldn't lie.”
Also on this subject of the lying, Joran says to both of the Kalpoe brothers, “Well, who gave testimony about the guards? You, not me. Why? Because I did not want to get anybody in trouble who has nothing to do with this case.” And then one of the brothers screamed at Joran, “That lie was for you.” Joran says, “You admitted that.” And, again, they scream at Joran, “That lie was for you.”
Nowhere, though, does it say why they would lie in testimony to police. Why would they have a reason to lie for Joran?
Remember, Joran van der Sloot gave the story that he dropped Natalee off. They were at the beach together and then he left her alone on the beach that night. He admitted that he lied to police. And he said he lied because he was scared.
At times in the transcript, though, he says to the Kalpoe brothers, “Well, you must have done something bad to her or you would not have lied.” He also accuses them of knowing what they did to her. And they say they hope that she is found alive. Joe—
SCARBOROUGH: Michelle Kosinski, thank you so much for that report.
I greatly appreciate it.
(END AUDIO FEED)
SCARBOROUGH: Let's bring in Natalee's mother right now, Beth Holloway Twitty.
Beth, what's your reaction to the conversation these boys were having just a month after Natalee disappeared?
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NALATEE'S MOTHER: You know, Joe, it's not only my reaction to that, but also the reaction to this whole nightmare. I mean, just when things don't seem like they can be anymore complex they become that way.
And when I think about the transcript that they are saying exists, you've got to remember, this is a month into it. These suspects had had a month of practice of what they were saying and what they were not saying. They knew they were being recorded at all times.
You know, I'm not surprised that we still cannot figure out from their conversation as to what had actually happened.
SCARBOROUGH: So you think the tapes and these transcripts could have just been a setup?
TWITTY: I don't—I mean, I don't know. But I know one thing, that those suspects were very guarded in the information that they disclosed. And we all know that. They had plenty of practice to do that. They'd had not only days, but they had weeks. They'd spent weeks in interrogation and they knew exactly where to cross the line.
SCARBOROUGH: What do you think about this new suspect that's been arrested over the past couple of days?
TWITTY: Well, I think that's a—I mean, I think it is a good sign that hopefully we can get some information now as to what happened.
I mean I don't know if he has information or involvement, but I think it's a positive sign in movement in the investigation. And, you know, it could turn about some information, Joe. So I'm encouraged.
SCARBOROUGH: But Beth, you still think obviously Joran and the Kalpoe brothers were responsible for Natalee's disappearance, right?
TWITTY: Well, when I go back to the facts of what we know their involvement is, we know that these are the last three individuals to be seen with natalee alive. And we know that they lied repeatedly to the authorities. And we know they implicated two innocent minority security guards. So there's a reason for that. There is a reason. And the reason must be that there is something serious that they are trying to hide. What that is, I don't know.
SCARBOROUGH: And Beth, finally, should the chief investigator—the last chief investigator, Dompig, is now, I guess, been booted off the case. Now, things seem to be moving forward with him out of the way. Do you feel like he was purposely instructing this—obstructing this investigation?
TWITTY: Gosh. You know, Joe, it's hard for me to even try to go there. I can't imagine someone in his position trying to obstruct an investigation. It's just hard for me to go there, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: All right. Beth Holloway Twitty, thank you so much for being with us tonight. We really appreciate it.
TWITTY: Thank you, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: Now moving on. During his 50-year career, legendary journalist Jack Anderson wrote a lot about the government. Now the government wants to look at his private papers.
The Feds say they need the documents to prosecute two lobbyists suspected of leaking classified information. The family says no way.
The documents have nothing to do with the case. And they don't want to turn those documents over.
With me now, George Washington University professor, and Jack Anderson's biographer, Mark Feldstein.
Mark, why would the FBI want Jack Anderson's documents? Want his notebooks? Want all of the information that he collected throughout his journalistic career?
MARK FELDSTEIN, AUTHOR & PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: An excellent question, Joe. And I can't tell you the answer.
The FBI has issued a statement that is pretty vague and doesn't really explain much more than that they suspect that there are classified documents in his papers.
I can tell you what they said when they knocked on my door at my house and demanded to see the documents. In that case they said that they had reason to believe—was the phrase they used—that this APAC Israeli lobbying case was involved. And they were conducting a criminal investigation, they said, of espionage, and wanted to look at his papers, going back to the early '80s.
SCARBOROUGH: I just can't imagine the FBI thinking it has the right to seize a reporter's work product. And yet, they knocked on your door to try to get these papers.
They also—didn't they also try to trick his wife into turning the papers over to them, also?
FELDSTEIN: Well, that's what's been alleged, yes. They told me that they had Mrs. Anderson's consent. Mrs. Anderson is elderly, and told me that the FBI agents had persuaded her that they were cousins, and evidently the paper was signed when Mrs. Anderson's kids weren't present in the room, when they stepped out to go to the bathroom or something.
SCARBOROUGH: Wait, wait, wait. They are claiming that an FBI agent claimed to be his cousin?
FELDSTEIN: Well, I think it was not quite that extreme, but that they were discussing genealogy, traced their roots back to the same location in West Virginia, and figured that they must be distantly related or something like that.
SCARBOROUGH: Just working on it. Can you explain to our viewers why this is so troubling?
FELDSTEIN: Well, that's an excellent question. And it's troubling because, for a generation, since the days of Richard Nixon, the case law has been you don't go to reporter's private notes unless you have exhausted every other available means. There is a first amendment that protects the reporter's notes and sources for a reason. That is that the framers of our constitution wanted the press to be a watch dog on wrongdoing.
And if you rummage through reporter's files like this, particularly after they're dead, you're going to discourage people from coming forward and blowing the whistle.
It is pretty far-fetched to me the likelihood that they're going to find anything in these files. I told the FBI that, when they came by my house, but they didn't seem to believe me.
SCARBOROUGH: All right. Thank you so much, Mark. We appreciate it.
And certainly, it is a -- I want to bring in Tucker Carlson here.
I don't know what you think, Tucker, to me it is frightening that a reporter's work product, life work product, could be taken by the FBI after they die. Does that concern you?
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, “THE SITUATION”: Of course it does. I mean, I think Jack Anderson was a bit of a fraud, particularly in his later years, but that is not the point.
The point is principle here. The FBI showing up and trying to trick a widow into handing over her husband's reporter's notes is disgusting. And who wouldn't be upset if the FBI showed up. If the FBI showed up at my house, I'd slam the door immediately and call my lawyer immediately, as, I think, all good Americans would and should. So, yes, upsetting.
SCARBOROUGH: What do you have going on tonight, Tucker?
CARLSON: I am beginning to think there is something deeply amiss in Durham, North Carolina, with this Duke rape case, you know.
SCARBOROUGH: No doubt about it.
CARLSON: I'm truly not convinced that these guys didn't do it. But convinced that possibly the prosecutor in the case is acting improperly, maybe very improperly. We'll get into that in some detail.
Then we'll interview a man who has traded a red paper clip, bartered it again and again and again, and is to the point where he is about to get a free house, all from that red paper clip. This is a true American. We'll talk to him.
SCARBOROUGH: All right, thanks so much, Tucker.
CARLSON: Thanks, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: And make sure you tune into “The Situation” coming up straight ahead at 11:00.
And when we come back, the most anticipated Hollywood babies arrive.
We'll tell you about it.
And also, a teenage gang attacking a man in Las Vegas. Stay with us.
We tell you that frightening story.
SCARBOROUGH: You know, it seems like it was just yesterday that Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes welcomed their baby, most-anticipated baby since Michael Jackson procreated, to the world. Well, actually it was yesterday.
And in a strange twist of fate, Brooke Shields delivered a girl on the very same day.
Now, friends, as you may remember, Cruise and Shield's war of words last summer. It all started with Cruise going after Brook Shields for taking anti-depressants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM CRUISE, ACTOR: You've got to understand, I really care about Brooke Shields. I think here is a wonderful and talented woman. And I want to see her do well. And I know that psychiatry is a pseudo science.
MATT, SHOW HOST: But, Tom, if she said this particular thing helped her feel better, whether it was the antidepressant or going to a counselor or a psychiatrist, isn't that enough?
CRUISE: You have to understand this. Here we are today, where I talk out against drugs and psychiatric abuses of electric shocking people against their will, of drugging children with them not knowing the effects of these drug. Do now what Aderal is? Do you know Ritalin? Do you know now that Ritalin is a street drug? Do you understand that?
MATT: The difference is this was not against her will, though. This wasn't against her will, though.
CRUISE: Matt. Matt, I'm asking you a question. Matt, I'm asking you a question.
MATT: I understand there's abuse of all these things.
CRUISE: Now, you see, here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry, I do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Shields responded to Dr. Cruise with a scathing editorial in the New York Times where she wrote, quote, “Comments like those made by Tom Cruise are a disservice to mothers everywhere. To suggest I was wrong to take drugs to deal with my depression, and that I should have taken vitamins and exercise shows an utter lack of understanding about postpartum depression and childbirth in general. If any good can come of Mr. Cruise's ridiculous rant, let's hope that it gives much-needed attention to a serious disease.”
Here to talk about it are Dena Sansing from U.S. Weekly and Rick Ross, a cult expert and creator of Cults: An Educational Volume.” It's now available on DVD.
Dina, let me begin with you. What's the buzz about Hollywood's version of the Hatfield's and the McCoy's having a baby on the same day?
DINA SANSING, U.S. WEEKLY: Only in Hollywood, right?
SCARBOROUGH: Only in Hollywood.
SANSING: I mean, who can imagine—Exactly.
After last summer, they actually gave birth to daughters on the same day in the same hospital in Los Angeles. No one could have predicted that.
SCARBOROUGH: What is the buzz in Hollywood about Tom Cruise and all of his sort of zany antics, even leading up to interviews before birth. Do many people in Hollywood think he has permanently damaged his movie career?
SANSING: Well, not really. He really was a very private person. And then, all of a sudden, he started talking his love life and all of this stuff came out. But his movies are still doing great. He's still Hollywood's number one star. So it really hasn't hurt him at the box office.
SCARBOROUGH: And Rick Ross, talk about this feud with Brooke Shields. Talk about why there is such an aversion to drugs that can help women, possibly even Katie Holmes, get through postpartum depression.
RICK ROSS, CULT EXPERT AND AUTHOR: Well, Joe, basically what Tom Cruise is doing is just reading from the book. And that's by L. Ron Hubbard.
Hubbard was opposed to, not only Ritalin and medication for depression, he was opposed to any type of counseling from any mental health professional, be they a psychiatrist, a psychologist, anyone at all.
So let's hope that baby Suri (ph), his daughter, doesn't have any problems that she needs to have resolved by physicians in those fields.
SCARBOROUGH: How long—so they played that out throughout adolescents, then? They don't believe in drugs, don't believe in physicians?
ROSS: Well, they don't believe in treating developmental disabilities that could be seen as, for example, ADHD, which is medicated with Ritalin.
And they don't believe in dealing with psychiatrists in areas like autism. It has been said that John Travolta's son, Jet (ph), suffers from autism.
But unlike Sylvester Stallone, who is out crusading to raise awareness about autism, and is proud of his son, and trying to do the best for him, a scientologist is limited. And they cannot seek help from the most obvious source for such a child, which would be a psychiatrist.
SCARBOROUGH: Dina, can you tell us about how powerful scientology is in Hollywood right now?
SANSING: Well, these days, it's all anyone's talking about. You know, people are fascinated by this religion.
A lot of people don't know a lot about it. They're secretive about just their beliefs and everything that is going on. So this is creating this huge aura around it. People don't know what is going on. And that's really making the talk is just escalate.
SCARBOROUGH: It certainly is.
Hey, Dina, thank you.
Rick Ross, I also appreciate you being with us.
And I certainly would like somebody representing scientology to come on “Scarborough Country” and tell us all about Tom Cruise, John Travolta, their belief systems, and what scientology is all about.
I hope you'll take our invitation up. I'd love to have you on our show.
Now, coming up, must-see S.C. A teenage mob beats up a Los Vegas casino employee. And we caught it all on tape.
And if you are Ford employ in Louisville, Kentucky, and don't drive a Ford car, you've got to park in the back lot. We'll tell you about that when “Scarborough Country” returns.
SCARBOROUGH: Time for another flyover of “Scarborough Country,” the stories the main steam media ignores, but we don't.
First up, Carson, California. Forget about good grades. High school students in that city are rewarded for just showing up at school. It sounds like a Woody Allen movie.
Carson High School gives free movie tickets and prizes to students with good attendance records. It's part of a program to keep kids in school. But not everybody's happy about the giveaways. A lot of the parents and teachers there are saying it is rewarding kids for what they are supposed to do.
Next stop, Federal Heights, Colorado. And the mayor of that city has a little bit of explaining to do about his night job. It seems Mayor Dell Sparks has been a doorman at a local strip club for the past year. But he was caught by surprise last week when cops raided the club as part of a prostitution investigation. Now, the mayor says he had no idea that the club he has been working for for so long was a brothel. Yes, right.
We will be right back with the tonight's must-sees S.C.
And don't forget, “The Situation with Tucker Carlson” is just minutes away.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, let's get Aunt Betsy's attention. Tell her it's time for tonight's must see S.C. Video you've got to see.
First, a teenage mob beats up a Las Vegas casino employee. And it's all caught on tape. One teen is under arrest tonight for the brutal beating. And police are looking for others, and say that these thugs may be responsible for other assaults across Las Vegas. A happy ending, though, the employee is in good condition.
Also caught on tape, an active volcano in northern Chile, going up in smoke. Two eruptions spewed ashed and smoke into the air. While it was quite a sight to see, officials say it poses no threat to the public.
And finally, what can be more fun on a Wednesday afternoon than a city
finals soccer match in London? It was packed with fans when this pesky
little squirrel made his way onto the field. The teams were forced to
suspend play. And the squirrel eventually ran off the field. And wasn't
heard from again
Hey, and we aren't going to be heard from tonight. That's because the show's over.
Stay tuned for “The Situation with Tucker Carlson.” It starts right now.
Hey, Tucker, what's the situation tonight?
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