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'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for May 18

Read the transcript to the Thursday show

Guests: Michelle Dallacroce, Edward Juarez, Vince Wade, John Koskovich, Deb Koskovich, Phil Carlo, Willie Puz, John Daly, Randy Shaffer, Alexis Waggoner, Joe Mammana

RITA COSBY, HOST: And good evening everybody.  We begin tonight with breaking news along the U.S.-Mexican border. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All I heard was a series of shots, like three or four shots and then I saw people up on the walkway suddenly stop and run over to the fence on the other side and start to look down. 


COSBY: A deadly shooting between Federal agents and suspected illegal immigrants tonight.  Let‘s go right to reporter Jim Kramer with NBC station KNSD who is right there at the scene.  Tell us what happened?

KEN KRAMER, KNSD: Well, Rita, this all happened at 3:25 this afternoon when a citizen called in, a 911 call and said that they had seen what they believed to be undocumented immigrants heading toward the United States-Mexico border.  When the law enforcement officers caught up with that vehicle right near the border, about 50 yards north of the border, in fact, they pulled the vehicle over and they at that point in questioning the driver felt that maybe that driver was attempting to leave.  They heard some screeching of brakes and two shots were fired, one by a border patrol agent and one by a customs officer, killing the driver of the car.  There were five other people in that car taken into custody.

COSBY:  And Ken, can you tell us also, do we know what happened with the other individuals? Were they injured at all?

KRAMER: We do not believe that they were injured.  In fact, we think they were not injured, nor do we know by the way whether or not these were in fact undocumented immigrants .  As you know, there are people who are along the border who are kind of keeping an eye out to see if in fact they are seeing undocumented immigrants.  We do not know and I asked the question, was this one of these groups that called in this report.  There‘s no indication that it was.  But the people who were in the car with the suspect who was killed, they are not hurt. 

COSBY:  And give us a sense again, they were heading back to the border.  We‘re hearing that they were involved in human smuggling.  Do we have any more details exactly what kind of activity?

KRAMER: No, we don‘t and the police are saying very little about this at this time.  The San Diego police are involved because this is a homicide investigation after all.  They‘re just still trying to sort all of this out.  The vehicle was heading south.  So that would be toward the Mexican border. We can tell you that as this investigation continues, there‘s been a huge backup because the border has been stopped.  That is, it‘s been closed off and there are miles and miles and miles of vehicles backed up waiting to cross the border and nobody is going anywhere.  People are standing up on top of the vehicles.  They‘re walking around.  They want to be able to move but it‘s a criminal investigation, a crime scene and nobody one can go anywhere.  And it‘s a very, very busy border so that‘s a big part of the story. 

COSBY:  All right Ken, please keep us posted. Thank you very much.  Today‘s shooting comes as President Bush takes his controversial plan for immigration reform right to the border.  Near one of the nation‘s busiest border crossings in Yuma, Arizona.  The president said some new fencing and use of the National Guard would help keep out illegal immigrants. 

And remember, “Live & Direct” took you right there to that border area near Yuma recently showing you how hundreds of illegal immigrants sneak through that area every day.  Live and direct right now is the man you just saw there, Edward Juarez. He‘s the president of the International Immigrant Foundation.  And also with us is Michelle Dallacroce. She is with Mothers Against Illegal Aliens.  Michelle, let me start with you. What‘s your reaction to the shooting that we just heard of that took place a few hours ago?

MICHELLE DALLACROCE, MOTHERS AGAINST ILLEGAL ALIENS: I would expect this to happen more and more. 

COSBY:  Why do you?  Why do you Michelle?

DALLACROCE: Because it‘s what the people are saying on the street, the illegal aliens that we come across during our rallies.  This is what they threaten us with all the time.

COSBY:  Edward, (INAUDIBLE) all these folks are coming in, sounds like these individuals were pushing for human smuggling. 

EDWARD JUAREZ, INTERNATIONAL IMMIGRANTS FOUNDATION: Well, one of the things that we have to realize is this is a concern of the Mexican  government when they‘re concerned precisely of the fact that how immigrants that come to the United States will be treated with the presence of the National Guard.  And—

COSBY: Stay focused, Edward, on the shooting, because the shooting that just happened.  If these folks are indeed smuggling in individuals that they should not have been clearly, authorities tell them to stop.  Do they have the right to shoot on them, not knowing maybe they‘re doing something even worse?

JUAREZ: We don‘t know the particulars of this particular case.  But we have to realize that the concern of the international governments as immigrants come into the United States and for the presence of the National Guard, this is something that we have to realize and how are people going to be treated once they arrive to the United States?

COSBY:  So what do you think? Do you think it‘s heavy handed, Edward?

What are you saying?

JUAREZ: We have to realize and understand that the government of the United States has to protect its borders and would the government act this way with a—a person or a car that is arriving in the United States of America.  This is something that is not seen before and we hope that we would not see it in the future. 

COSBY:  Michelle, was this heavy handed? What do you think?

DALLACROCE: I think until we know all of the details of what happened today, we really can‘t -we‘d be sort of judging this before we had all of the facts.  But what I would like to say is I‘m here in Yuma where the president was today and I had come across a mother who actually is my tour guide here and brought me to this interview for you.  Her son just came out of the military and he‘s with the Air National Guard and two weeks after coming back from Iraq, he was placed head down, face down in the dirt with a gun with a hammer clocked back by an illegal alien and they stole his car and he almost died and he said he‘d rather be in Iraq where at least he could have defended himself than here where he was defenseless. 

COSBY: Edward, what do you say to that?

JUAREZ: That‘s something that is very sporadic.  Immigrants come to the country and come here because they love this nation.  They want to be part of our society. They want to contribute as they do.  We have, what, 11 million, 12 million human beings in our nation that want to be part of the United States of America.  So whatever Michelle is stating is something that‘s probably one in a million. 

COSBY:  A rare occurrence?

DALLACROCE: No, it‘s not one in a million.  No, it‘s not one in a million.  What we have here are people illegally here.  They‘re criminals coming into our country. 

JUAREZ: They‘re not criminals Michelle. 

DALLACROCE: They don‘t understand the concept of what illegal and legal means. 

JUAREZ: They‘re not criminals Michelle. 

DALLACROCE: Excuse me sir. You had a moment to speak.  Please let me finish.  The president wants a comprehensive reform and until he has a comprehensive reform that includes the women and the children that are coming over here illegally and having children, his reform will not be comprehensive. 

JUAREZ: We have to understand one fact, that the United States of America is aging dramatically.  We‘re not having as many children as we have to be able to sustain itself, to sustain the country. 

DALLACROCE: So you‘re saying that -

JUAREZ: Immigrants are very important, are essential to our social and economic development.

DALLACROCE: I‘m really glad that you brought that up because you‘re saying that because American women aren‘t having children, it‘s OK for illegal alien women to come here to repopulate, is that what you‘re saying?

JUAREZ: The reality is that the United States of America needs people precisely to do (INAUDIBLE)

COSBY:  I don‘t want to take this where I don‘t want to go. But let me show you, first of all, because we were on the border there in Yuma and I want to show you a little bit of that and I‘ll get you guys both very quickly to react.  Here it is. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Hey, guys, over here.  I got bodies.  [speaking spanish.  ]


COSBY: When you see that, it‘s open territory.  I was also in places where the fences are so knocked down. What‘s the solution?. 

JUAREZ: The truth is that these people are actually invited to come to our land.  Let‘s remember.


JUAREZ: Let‘s remember, there is a need in our society.  There‘s a need in our organizations and our jobs. 

COSBY:  Let me get Michelle to respond. Michelle, these guys are sneaking in (ph)

JUAREZ: That‘s why they‘re here. 

COSBY:  Michelle go ahead.

DALLACROCE: What he‘s saying is that because they want to believe that they belong here that that‘s the need.  No, when you‘re welcomed legally and you have a visa, that means you‘re welcome here, sir.  (INAUDIBLE)

COSBY:  Both of you, we will continue this debate I‘m sure for a long time to come.  Thank you very much.

DALLACROCE: Thank you.

COSBY:  Everybody, we will keep you posted, of course, on the shooting at the border that we just got those details on just a few minutes ago. 

And now let‘s move on to another intriguing case.  Late details tonight on the brand new tip that‘s re-launching the search for Jimmy Hoffa.  The FBI now scouring 80 acres of land outside of Detroit.  They say it‘s the best lead that they have gotten in this 30-year mystery.  Hoffa, of course, was the high-profile president of the teamsters labor union before he suddenly vanished without a trace back in July of 1975.  The infamous disappearance sparked instant public debate and intrigue.  As his work was allegedly tied to organized crime, rumors of a Mafia-related murder have spanned across three decades as the authorities search for answers and let‘s go straight to independent reporter Vince Wade, with the very latest.  Vince, what‘s happening tonight?

VINCE WADE, INDEPENDENT REPORTER: Well basically we have a bunch of FBI agents guarding the property  because they can‘t dig at night, obviously, with the all of the equipment—the heavy machinery.  So they‘re basically - they‘ve got a perimeter thing going Rita.  But they were digging during the course of the day today over near a horse barn.  You can‘t see it behind me but it‘s about I‘d say 150 yards behind me.  And they had a backhoe over there.  They‘re digging that up.  They had anthropologists here.  They had various kinds of forensics experts that were out here.  They had cadaver dogs out here yesterday.  They‘re making what they call a full court press in sports. 

COSBY: It sure seems it.  First of all, people thought how much substance can we give to this tip? What is the sense you‘re getting, there on the ground in terms of the credibility of this tip to have that many agents there cordoning off the area.  Do you seem to think that they think this may be something substantive?

WADE: Clearly they think it‘s substantive, otherwise they wouldn‘t put this kind of effort forward.  This cost an awful lot of money.  I have to tell you, I‘ve been on the story since the day Hoffa disappeared.  I was one of the first people to report that he disappear back in July of 1975.   What I was about to say Rita is that I tend to question whether there‘s any substance to this.  I talked with some of the original investigators today, and some of the old timers that were on the case way back when for the FBI felt that the body was disposed of early on and that they wouldn‘t take a risk, they being the Mafia take a risk of having a body someplace that could be dug up where there could be evidence, that could lead to a prosecution. 

COSBY:  We‘ll be following it. It‘s still fascinating that they‘re all out there tonight.  If you hear anything else, please come back to us in the show.  We appreciate it.  And after the break everybody, we‘re going talk to the people who own the property next to where the Feds are searching for Jimmy Hoffa.  That‘s not all tonight, folks.  Take a look. 

Still ahead, disorder in the court.  Outbursts and outrage as one of the accused Duke lacrosse players goes before the judge.  Find out who confronted him, calling him a rapist.  Plus—deadly gators—wildlife crews hunt down the alligator which killed a Florida woman.  But we‘ll show you why tracking them down is only half of the battle. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The biggest gator we‘ve caught this year. 


COSBY:  Plus, he‘s a bad boy of golf.  Addicted to drinking, sex, and gambling. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the most I ever lost was like $2.2 million. 

COSBY:  What really drives John Daly?  In a rare TV interview, the (INAUDIBLE) tells me all about his demons and  answers your questions .  That‘s ahead Live & Direct.



DANIEL ROBERTS, FBI AGENT: The last two years I‘ve been here as the agent in charge, this is the best lead I‘ve seen come across on the Hoffa investigation. 


COSBY: And more now on the new and fascinating search for Jimmy Hoffa. 

The FBI says that they have gotten the best tip that they‘ve had in 30

years.  First, here‘s what the FBI said about the case, almost a quarter of

a century ago


COSBY:  We got a pretty good handle on what the scenario was, how it went down.  But you‘ve got to look at the people you‘re dealing with here.  You‘re dealing with known organized crime figures, who aren‘t known for cooperating with law enforcement authorities. 

Joining us now is a couple that‘s living right next door to the new search area.  John and Deb Koskovich.  Debbie let me start with you first of all. When did you find out that the FBI was becoming your neighbor?

DEB KOSKOVICH, LIVES NEXT TO HOFFA SEARCH AREA: Well, when I got home from work yesterday about noon I actually worked a half day yesterday and got home about noon and saw quite a few men standing right on my property line.  So I went inside, went inside, actually took a nap for the afternoon.  And when my husband got home at 5:00, he told me that they were out there and I told him they had been out there for the past four or five hours.  So he went out to ask them who they were and what they were doing. 

COSBY:  And what did they say to you John?

JOHN KOSKOVICH, LIVES NEXT TO HOFFA SEARCH AREA: I recognized the FBI logo finally on the polo shirts.  The dark sunglasses kind of gave them away a little bit and when I asked them how things were going, they said we‘re here conducting a search warrant.  And I walked away and assumed that it might have been a drug bust or nothing more than that.  We were in quite a shock when we turned the news on. 

COSBY:  And what was your reaction Debbie when you found out what it was because there‘s been some rumors at this property for a long time may be tied to Hoffa?

DEB KOSKOVICH: Right, actually, we hadn‘t heard any rumors for quite a few years when we first moved here in 1985.  A neighbor had jokingly said to us, hey, did you hear that Hoffa is buried on that property next to you?  I said, yeah, right.  We just kind of laughed it off and he laughed. We totally took it as a joke and honestly, I hadn‘t thought about that comment until yesterday when the FBI showed up. 

COSBY:  Debbie, you said you bought the house in 1985.  Who did you buy it from? Do you know if it was anyone who also may have had some mob ties now that you found out?

DEB KOSKOVICH: Not at all a.  Actually it was a single mother and she was getting remarried and moving on. 

COSBY:  A very suspicious single mother, very suspicious one.

DEB KOSKOVICH: Right, yeah.  So I have no doubt she was not connected with it. 

COSBY:  John, tell us about the scene too next door.  I mean there are just tons of FBI agents who are just talking to one of our reporters out there and he was saying that they cordoned off of the area.  What does it look like in your neighborhood?

JOHN KOSKOVICH: It is a—it‘s a for lack of a better word a circus out here.  My experience yesterday was like any other normal day with virtually no activity except for a few FBI agents here and since that time, until now, it seems like half the world has descended on us.  TV, radio, newspaper people have somehow found their way to our little corner of the universe to try to find out what‘s happening here in tiny little Milford  Township.

COSBY:  And Debbie, tell us a little bit about Milford Township. How remote is it there and we were just hearing that they‘re looking particularly at a horse barn. Can you tell us a little bit about the area and that particular property?

DEB KOSKOVICH: Well, Milford is typical small town America.  It‘s a pretty rural town.  We live on a private road that‘s even more rural.  We literally have three houses on our road and at the end is the horse farm.  It‘s the kind of road where we get up on a Sunday morning and read the paper out on the deck and we‘re most likely to hear a horse whinny is about the noisiest it normally gets around here. 

COSBY:  It sounds like the neighborhood has changed quite a bit.  Both of you, thank you very much for being with us tonight.  Mystery solved.  And let‘s now bring in a writer who says that he knows who killed Jimmy Hoffa and where he is.  With us now is Phil Carlo.  He‘s the author of the upcoming book, “The Iceman—Confessions of a Mafia Contract Killer.” So who killed Hoffa and where is he buried?


Well I wrote a book about Richard Kuklinski known as the ice man who during a career of murder over a 43-year period killed over 200 people.  In 1975, he was involved, he said in the abduction and murder of Jimmy Hoffa.  To make a long story short, he‘s from Hoboken, Jersey City, New Jersey and as a teenager he knew Tony Provenzano, who is basically thought to be the mob guy that got the contract.  And Kuklinski garnered a reputation as a very efficient, quiet contract killer, a married man. He didn‘t hang out.  Because he was a non-Italian, he was able to work for all of the different Mafia families. 

COSBY:  I was hearing also that you were saying that you believe that Hoffa is in a fender in Japan. Describe that sort of real quick.

CARLO: Well, real quick? Kuklinski said that they put him in the trunk of a car at a point in time, scorched the car down and it went as scrap metal to Japan and he said basically that he thinks now part of a fender in Japan somewhere. 

COSBY:  So are you saying that we‘ll never know.  What about this tip tonight? The FBI agents insist - it‘s a little unclear whether there‘s something or not. Clearly there‘s something for the agents to sort of swarm this property next to the neighbors we just spoke to.

CARLO: I think it‘s a big publicity stunt. 

COSBY:  (INAUDIBLE) for FBI agents to come there?

CARLO: I think it‘s much ado about nothing. 

COSBY:  An informant—do you think it‘s a bad tip from an informant?

CARLO: I think basically some rat got himself in trouble again and he said I can tell you where the Hoffa body is and he gave him up and they‘re doing this, it seems to me more of a media circus than an effective police  procedure.  When they got John Gotti, nobody knew—nobody knew anything.  It was all done very secretively. 

COSBY:  So why the show, though, Phil? What would be the purpose of trying to do this publicity?

CARLO: They‘ve had so much bad publicity since 9/11, I—I would only

I can only imagine—

COSBY: Now we really get into conspiracy theories. Real quick, why should we believe you and this mobster?

CARLO: Look, Rita, it‘s not a matter of believing me. I‘m telling you what the guy told me. 

COSBY:  Do you believe him?

CARLO: I was sitting two feet away from him looking him in the eye.  Yes, I do believe him. If they find Hoffa‘s body tomorrow, I will say he was full of shit, the guy.  If they don‘t find him, I‘ll say the FBI is full of it.  I really don‘t know. I was not there when Hoffa was murdered.  Nobody was, in fact.  It‘s all conjecture. 

COSBY:  Do you think we‘ll ever know what ever really happened to Hoffa?

CARLO: I don‘t think so. No, I think the body is long gone, arividerchi (ph).

COSBY:  All right, Phil Carlo, interesting story. Thanks so much and we‘re going to switch gears a little here.

New details tonight in the Duke rape case.  Heated sparks at a North Carolina courthouse where lacrosse player Reade Seligmann made his first court appearance since being indicted for the alleged rape.  Hecklers taunted Seligmann as he walked in.  NBC‘s Michelle Hofland was inside the courtroom for all of the action.  Michelle, what was the big commotion about today?

MICHELLE HOFLAND, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Both inside and outside, threats inside the courtroom and tauntings outside the courtroom.  First off, about a half hour before court was set to start today, Reade Seligmann walked in front of the courthouse here flanked by his attorneys.  Outside waiting for him were a group of the new Black Panther organization.  Listen closely to what they had to say to him. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There go the rapist and his protectors. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you feeling, Reade? 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice will be done.  Justice will be done.   Justice! Justice will be done, rapist (INAUDIBLE) justice will be done. You need to be quiet.  You weren‘t quiet that night when you were drunk. 


HOFLAND:  Inside the courtroom, as the district attorney walked in for the first time, a community activist stood up and began clapping.  District attorney Mike Nifong started smiling.  The community activist looked over to her shoulder to see if anyone else would join in with her and then she stopped.  A couple minutes later, that is when Reade Seligmann walked in and sat down.  As soon as the 20-year old sat down, a man sitting in the row behind him, behind the bench or behind in the audience, looked at him and said quote, you‘re a dead man walking and then called the 20-year-old a swear word.  A couple of minutes later, the Judge Ron Stevens walked in and took control. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lawyers will be talking.  I will be talking.  Nobody else will be talking.  So if anybody is disruptive or decides to do that, summarily, you‘ll be held in contempt of this court and I will put you in jail. 


HOFLAND:  That quieted everyone down.  Nobody said a word in the audience from then on.  You could certainly Rita, feel the tension in that courtroom. 

COSBY:  You bet. It sounds like a tough courtroom arraignment inside and outside.  Michelle thanks so much.  We appreciate it. 

And still to come everybody, we all know that tow trucks are used to haul away cars.  But in Florida, can you believe, they had to use one to cart away a nearly 700 pound monster.  There he is.  And this fellow wasn‘t going down with a fight.  We‘re going to talk live to the guy who took him down literally.  He‘s next. 

And the soap opera life of golfing great John Daly.  Tens of millions of dollars lost to gambling, sex, and booze addiction.  Four wives and his current one in prison.  You can‘t make this stuff up.  John Daly, uncensored, coming up.


COSBY: New developments in the fatal Florida alligator attacks.  Two were caught today and wildlife officials think that one of them may be the killer gator that attacked and killed 23-year-old Ann Marie Campbell while she was snorkeling recently. 


CURTIS LUCAS, TRAPPED 2 ALLIGATORS: You can see the visible scars under his bill.  They were shining real white under the water.  There were three or four places that we could see where the skin had been broke on the bill.  To me, I‘m saying, we‘ve got our animal right here. 


COSBY: Ann Marie was just one of the three women viciously killed within one week.  And with me now is Willie Puz. He‘s with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission and we‘re hoping to be joined on the phone tonight with an alligator trapper, Todd Hartwick.  He‘s with the Pesky Critters nuisance wildlife control.  He caught a 12-foot gator himself.  We hear that he‘s out catching alligators right now but we hope to get him quickly on the phone to join us in a minute or two as well.   Willie, let me first start with you because it‘s fascinating.  This alligator that they caught.  Why do they believe that this is the one that actually killed Ann Marie Campbell? 

WILLIE PUZ: There‘s a couple of reasons for that.  One is it fit the size profile from what we were looking for.  And then whenever they captured the gator, they took it back to try and match the bite profile on the gator to what was on unfortunately the victim. And they‘re pretty sure that that is the case. There‘s a few more experts that they want to have come look at the mouth and make sure that the teeth line up and that‘s what they‘re waiting for.

COSBY:  We also are hearing about scratches too.  How prominent were the scratches?  And does it appear there was some sort of struggle?

PUZ:  The scratches may have been done by some of the friends that came to the aid.  And that‘s one of the—one of the helpers in this in trying to match the correct gator.

COSBY:  How big is this gator?  How massive?  How long?  How long does it take for them confirm?  How long is this process?

PUZ:  This gator was 11 feet, four inches long.  It was roughly about 400 pounds.  And we‘re bringing in experts probably on Monday to double check what we know.

COSBY:  I want to play a little bit of the actual trappers, the actual guy who actually caught the gator.  And then I want to play a little bit of it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  My first opinion is going be large alligator.  And to me that‘s what I was expecting to find when we got here.  She wouldn‘t have had any chance.


COSBY:  How strong was this gator, do you believe, Willie?  I mean, just the force of these creatures?

PUZ:  Alligators are extremely strong.  They can knock you over with one swoop of their tail.  And as you see in all of the alligator captures, there‘s a lot of precautions that are taken to make sure everybody is safe.  They tape the mouth and they tape the legs and make sure when they‘re carrying that alligator, that that tail is secure.  Because that is extremely powerful.

COSBY:  We‘re looking at a shot now—We hoping to have on Todd Hartwick either today or next week, he‘s with Pesky Nuisance Wildlife Control (ph).  He is one of these guy who actually grabs the gator this.  This is a 12-foot gator.  How tough is it to physically stop a gator and get it to the point where you are taping its mouth like we see there?

PUZ:  Todd would be the best to tell you about that but that‘s why we have these expert nuisance trappers.  We have 38 nuisance trappers registered with us in the state.  They have sub agents which brings the total pool of nuisance trappers over 100.  And a lot of times they go out in teams just to make sure they‘re safe while they‘re making a capture.

COSBY:  And how difficult is it to actually get these guys?  Right now, we just see the tail whipping and the head—just the force.  How often do these creatures get away?

PUZ:  When the trapper is on the case, normally the alligator doesn‘t get away.  There‘s a number of different methods that they can use with a hand snare or a hook and hand line and they can bring those gators to shore.  And they‘re experts.  They‘re the ones we want handling this.  We don‘t want anyone out thinking they can capture a gator on their own.  Because they are extremely dangerous creatures.

COSBY:  What advice do you have for people tonight?  How concerned are you that there could be maybe more attacks?  There‘s still this drought issue.

PUZ:  Well, what we want people to do is be aware of your surroundings.  We want you to be educated on how to deal with alligators and make sure that you‘re informed of your surroundings and where you‘re going.  We just want people to be safe and enjoy their time in our outdoors.

COSBY:  Do people realize how serious it is?  Do people realize especially now with the drought and all of the other issues we talked about the other night?

PUZ:  Some people do and some people don‘t.  We hear the mixed bag of the calls coming in.  And those that are around alligators on a routine basis respect them.  Those that see them occasionally, they‘re—sometimes those are the ones that really don‘t understand how dangerous alligators can be.

COSBY:  How do these people get involve in catching them?  We‘re looking at shot here.  This is, of course, Todd Hardwick, one of the gator catchers.  We here he‘s actually in the middle of a process right now of capturing another gator.  How do they get involved?  How do they get started?

PUZ:  There could be a number of different ways.  Sometimes this is a job passed down from grandfather to father to son.  Sometimes it could be they were in the business of capturing other animals and just migrated into alligators due to need an necessity sometimes.

But one thing I want to make sure is to let everybody know that Florida‘s wildlife is one of our greatest treasures.  We want you to come down and enjoy Florida‘s wildlife, but also respect it.

COSBY:  Absolutely.  Well, we thank you very much.  Willie, we appreciate you being here.  Please keep us posted, especially if you get an answer for sure about that alligator.  The one you captured, tied to Ann Marie Campbell.

We appreciate you being here.  And everybody, there is a lot more coming up here on MSNBC tonight.  Let‘s go to Tucker with THE SITUATION.  Tucker, what do you have coming up  in a few minutes?

TUCKER CARLSON, MSNBC HOST:  Rita, should English be the language of America officially?  It was debated in the Congress today.  The top Democrat in the Senate called the idea of that racist.  We‘ll debate it on our show.  Plus, the top five unsolved mysteries in America.  It‘s not just Jimmy Hoffa, it‘s not just Natalee Holloway.  There are a bunch of them out there.  We have got the whole roster for you.  It‘s going to be good.

COSBY:  We‘re going to be tuning in, Tucker.

CARLSON:  Thanks, Rita.

COSBY:  Thank you very much.  We appreciate it.  And everybody still to come—the medical student mystery.  Brian Shaffer was last seen on surveillance video out celebrating the start of spring break.  The next minute, he vanished.  Does this video that you‘re looking at here hold more clues than meets the eye?  We‘re going to talk live to his family who need answers tonight.

And you don‘t want to miss this one—golf‘s bad boy John Daly.  He tells us what he really thinks about Tiger Woods, women golfers and his sexual addiction.


COSBY:  Were you addicted to sex?


COSBY:  Still.

DALY:  But I‘ve been learning—not a anymore for right now because I haven‘t had any in four months.



COSBY:  He says he was a sex addict and was overcome by gambling and booze.  And tonight he‘s telling all right here on LIVE & DIRECT.

Today I spoke to the always controversial John Daly, undoubtedly one of golf‘s best players who surprised the sport as a newcomer winning the PGA Championship back in 1991.

He instantly became a household name, not just for his golf game, but for his tantrums on the greens and his wild private life.  Losing more money in one night at a gambling table than most families earn in a lifetime.

He is now confronting his demons in a new book titled, “My Life, In and Out of the Rough.”  We asked golf‘s so-called bad boy with some of the great questions that you at home submitted to us.  I first asked something I first wanted to know—how he‘s still alive with all of his vices?


JOHN DALY, GOLFER:  I don‘t know.  Been fortunate, I guess.  I don‘t know.

COSBY:  You have a lot of addictions, you‘ve got the gambling, you‘ve got sex, you‘ve got alcohol.  Let‘s start with gambling, first off.  How much did you lose in one night?

DALY:  I think the most I ever lost one night was like $2.2 million.

COSBY:  Two point two million?  In one night?

DALY:  Yeah.

COSBY:  How did you lose it?

DALY:  Playing blackjack.  Playing by the book.

COSBY:  Slot machines or tables?

DALY:  Back in 1992-1997 is when I really lost most of the money.  I was playing blackjack mostly all the time.  I was playing by the book.  When I started to hit doubling 12s and stuff, I started winning.

COSBY:  How much are you betting a hand?

DALY:  I used to bet $20,000 seven ways.  A hundred and forty thousand would be right on the table.

COSBY:  And didn‘t you ever say I‘m throwing away three or four houses in one night?

DALY:  I never thought of it that way.  I had the money to do it, you know?  When I first made it on tour, I put a lot of money back for my kids and me.  And so they‘re taken care of.  So it‘s money—what am I going to co-?  Buy houses?  Pay more taxes on that?  Buy more cars?  I have got plenty of cars, plenty of homes.  That was something that was fun do.

COSBY:  How much did you lose over the years altogether?

DALY:  Fifty eight million.

COSBY:  What was your reaction when you realized you lost $58 million gambling?

DALY:  I couldn‘t believe it.  I thought it might have been $20 million or $25 million, but not $58 million.  But it was.

COSBY:  And how do you feel that you wasted that money away?

DALY:  At least I know I made a lot of money back then.  Still making a lot of money.  So golf‘s been good.

COSBY:  Did you ever bet on the game of golf?

DALY:  No.  I never was a—was a gambler that way.  Betting games and stuff.  I‘ve always been a guy who wanted to go and do it legal.

COSBY:  We‘ve got a lot of emails.  One emailer wrote, Mike from New Jersey put, “As a member of A.A.,” Alcoholics Anonymous, “I was just wondering, if you are still sober?”  Are you?

DALY:  No.  I still drink beer a little bit.

COSBY:  What about your friend Jack Daniels?

DALY:  Me and Jack, we haven‘t seen each other since I was 25 years old.  I can‘t stand the smell of whiskey.

COSBY:  Were you drunk at tournaments?

DALY:  No.  Been hung over but I wasn‘t drunk.

COSBY:  Never drunk.

DALY:  No.

COSBY:  How did you do the days you were hung over?

DALY:  Played pretty good.

COSBY:  You did?

DALY:  Played pretty good.

COSBY:  What were some of the worst thing that is happened to you?

DALY:  Well, I mean it was very easy for me—a week of just nothing but go, go, go, go and drinking whiskey, it all kind of builds up to rage almost and you want to destroy something.  I always wanted to destroy homes, houses, cars, whatever.

COSBY:  Hotel rooms.

DALY:  Hotel rooms every now and then.  Because I was never going hit anybody.  And it was just self inflicted on my—This hand has been probably broke three times.

COSBY:  Why the rage?  Where is the anger coming from?  What happened to get you so mad?

DALY:  Just working so hard and people pulling me, pushing me, one way or the other?

COSBY:  Did you feel like I don‘t deserve this, it‘s all right to abuse myself, to drink, to do this, do that?  Or did you just want to test the limits?

DALY:  I don‘t know.  At that point, you don‘t care.  And I think searching for love, maybe.  I want somebody to love me for just for me and not because of what I can do, golf, fame, or whatever, just love me for me.

COSBY:  Your wife is in prison for money laundering—unrelated to anything with you.  How difficult is that for you after everything that you‘ve been through and now you have a wife behind bars?

DALY:  Well, it was more—it was kind of weird because everything that was going on in my life before I met Sherri (ph) was kind of like, I don‘t take al the responsible, but most of it was my fault, the screwups that I was doing and stuff.  And I found someone who‘s down and had some problems.  When I ever had problems, besides the closest friends here my agents, have always stuck with me.  Women seem to—when things are great, they‘re right there with me.  When thing goes south, they find ways, I don‘t need this and—And I told Sherri I‘m not going to divorce you and I‘m not giving up on her.

COSBY:  One of the things that you talked about was your sex addiction.  Are you a nymphomaniac?

DALY:  No, I haven‘t been in the last four months.  But—my wife .

COSBY:  Your wife is in prison.

DALY:  My wife tells me I am.  It‘s been tough.  Being with the kids has made the time go by a lot faster.

COSBY:  Were you addicted to sex?

DALY:  I am.  I am.

COSBY:  Still?

DALY:  Yeah.  But I‘ve been learning - I‘m not a nympho right now. 

Because I haven‘t had any in four months.

COSBY:  How easy was sex on the tour for guys like you?

DALY:  I‘ve always been a guy that‘s always had—I‘ve always had a girl in my life.  I‘ve always had a girlfriend or .

COSBY:  A girlfriend or many women.

DALY:  There‘s been many women, but it‘s just been - I‘d always have a relationship most of the time.  It wasn‘t like I was dating 100 girls here, 10 girls there.  It was always one girl at a time.  And I just love—loved it.

COSBY:  We got an email from Liz from Fort Lauderdale.  She says, “Does John Daly ever consider himself as a role model?”  What can people learn from you?

DALY:  I wouldn‘t say I would a role model for the world but I am a role model for my kids.  My mistakes I‘ve made in my life, I can say, hey, hopefully they won‘t make the same ones I made.


COSBY:  Tiger Woods has given you some ultimate compliments and has even said, God, if I could play like John Daly, I wouldn‘t need to practice.

DALY:  He was saying, hey, come have a beer with us.  It was his tournament.  Target Jones (ph) two years ago at Sherwood.  I said, where are you going?  He said, I‘m going to go work out.  He said come here and have a beer with us, you don‘t need to work out, it‘s just a fun tournament.  He said, If I had your talent, I wouldn‘t work out either.  It was just really cool.

COSBY:  The ultimate compliment from someone like that.

Who do you think is the best golfer out there right now?

DALY:  Tiger by far.

COSBY:  Why?

DALY:  He just wins.  Look at his record.  I mean, overall, Nicklaus still has the records but Tiger is going to beat him.

COSBY:  Michelle Wie?

DALY:  Very talented.

COSBY:  Should she play at the U.S. Open?  The men‘s U.S. Open?

DALY:  If she qualifies.  Yeah.

COSBY:  You have no problem with a woman being there?

DALY:  We don‘t have any restrictions like the LPGA.  A guy can‘t play the LPGA tour.  Our bylaws states that anyone who basically has a heart and is of age can play our tour.

COSBY:  If you went up against Michelle Wie, who would win?

DALY:  Hopefully me.  I don‘t know.  But she‘s pretty talented.  She really is talented.

COSBY:  Do you ever say, look what a great player I am.  But imagine what I would have been if I had taken care of myself?

DALY:  No.

COSBY:  I hard you drink 20 diet cokes and smoke two packs of cigarettes.

DALY:  Pretty much.

COSBY:  Still a day?

DALY:  Yeah.

COSBY:  And that‘s the training for one of the top golfers in the world?

DALY:  My motto is nicotine and caffeine equal protein.

COSBY:  And it works, it seems.

DALY:  It seems to be working.


COSBY:  John Daly, pulling no punches.

And still ahead, everybody—it‘s a mystery with tantalizing clues on tape.  One minute, a young man was a grainy image on a surveillance video.  The next minute, he was gone.

How did medical student Brian Shaffer just disappear into thin air?  And Elliott Yamin (ph) said he was shocked by last night‘s “American Idol” and it‘s not because he was kicked off.  Coming up we will tell you what he is saying now.


COSBY:  Tonight an update on the story that we first brought you a couple weeks ago.  An Ohio medical student remains missing.  And police are desperately searching for clues in to his mysterious disappearance.

Twenty-seven year old Brian Shaffer but last seen on April 2.  He and his friends were celebrating the start of spring break from Ohio State University.  Right before he vanished, these are the last known images of Brian leaving a local bar in Columbus at around 2:00 a.m.  You can see him highlighted in this surveillance video.

A reward of more than $25,000 is now being offered to anyone who has information on his whereabouts.  And LIVE & DIRECT tonight are Brian‘s dad, Randy Shaffer and also Brian‘s girl friend, Alexis Waggoner.  And also here with us is philanthropist Joe Mammana who has put up the reward money.

Randy, let me first start with you.  I heard this, a new development, that his apartment was ransacked.  Do you believe there‘s any connection?

RANDY SHAFFER, MISSING STUDENT‘S FATHER:  There were three apartments were broken into that night.  So I kind of doubt it.  In fact, what they took—Brian had a lot of stereo equipment in the apartment.  And about the only thing they took or did take was a small TV that he had in his bedroom and DVDs and they did take a DVD players.  But he had two guitars sitting through and quite a few other things.  And I‘m just kind of surprised that‘s all that was taken.  I‘m glad that‘s all they were taken.  I would have been very upset if his guitars would have been missing.

COSBY:  Alexis, we obviously saw the videotape.  Looking at some great pictures of Brian here.  and there‘s that surveillance video, we know is sort of the last-known pictures of him.  There was a missing student recently, turned out not be related at all.  How frustrating for you is you wait here and are there any leads in the surveillance video that you see?

ALEXIS WAGGONER, MISSING STUDENT‘S GIRLFRIEND:  No.  I‘ve seen the video.  I saw it very early on.  And I mean it—he looks fine.  And - in it.  But—as far as being frustrated, obviously, we were really hoping that the other student that was missing may be would give us some leads to where Brian could be.  But, I mean, you know every day that goes by is—it‘s heart wrenching.  So .

COSBY:  I can‘t imagine.  Joe Mammana, this has obviously touched your heart.  Why did you put up the money for this?  And do you hope the money is going to make a difference after a bit of time somebody is going to come forward?

JOE MAMMANA, PHILANTHROPIST:  We do this throughout the United States.  We solved many of the cases so far.  A situation like this where a young man has just lost—his mother was lost not too long and now the boy‘s lost - this was a kid that was giving back to society, was going do something.  Our money goes out with no regards with who they are, green, black, yellow, glow in the dark.  This was a good kid this.  And the money does not go out for everybody—If a drug dealer killing a drug killer.  A pedophile killing a pedophile.  To me it‘s a public service.

COSBY:  In this case there is a commonality in this case with Julie Popovich who was a girl - what is the commonality?

MAMMANA:  They had gone to the same high school.

COSBY:  Do we believe there is any connection in this?

MAMMANA:  I don‘t know.  I know right now law enforcement in Columbus, Ohio is doing an outstanding job.  So is Kevin Miles of Crimestoppers out there doing an outstanding job.  And there are a lot of leads coming in and they are putting them together.  But will this come to closure?  I‘m sure in due time, they‘ll be able to piece this thing together and find out what happened to this young man and bring the mutt that did this to him to justice?

COSBY:  Randy, do you believe the same thing?  Do you believe at some point this will be solved?  Is there a possibility that he just took off?

SHAFFER:  I don‘t think there‘s any possibility he just took of.  I know Brian‘s personality way too well.  He‘s got too many things going good for him.  His grades were good in school.  The fact that he wanted to go on vacation.  He had a deep love for Alexis and also for me and his mom.

He—he just wanted to do the best that he could and the one thing he said is you inspired me to do great things one day.  To me that‘s enough right there to say that Brian had a goal, an objective, he knew which way he was going.  And somebody interrupted that and messed it up.  And I want to find out who it is and get him back.  I firmly think something happened that was not good and it wasn‘t just Brian taking off.

COSBY:  Alexis, what do you want to say tonight to anybody?  He was in a bar.  He was in a crowded bar.  That was the last time.  So what do you want to say to folks who, maybe somebody saw something in the bar and hasn‘t come forward and hopefully they‘re hearing the good work of Joe Mammana and others tonight?

WAGGONER:  If anybody obviously knows anything—any little tiny thing that they saw at any point that night, it would be wonderful for them to fill in anything for the police.  I mean not just did you see him at 2:00, but really at any point at that night to kind of fill in anything.

And I‘m just so thankful for Joe and all of the other people that have helped us.

COSBY:  Absolutely.  You deserve it and everybody looking at the number on the screen, please call, anybody, if you have information, again, $25,000 reward and everybody, we hope we get some answers.  We‘re going to be right back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Elliott Yamin, the journey ends.  But you have a lot to be proud of.


COSBY:  Well, he says he knew it was time to go.  “American Idol” contestant Elliott Yamin says he was not surprised when his name was called last night, sending him home from the competition but he tells the Associated Press he was shocked just how close the voting actually was and he won‘t make any predictions who is going to win “American Idol.”  That does it for me on LIVE & DIRECT tonight, everybody.  I‘m Rita Cosby.  I‘m going to be off for a few days, a little vacation.  Now let‘s go to THE SITUATION WITH TUCKER CARLSON.  Tucker?



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