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'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' for June 27

Read the transcript to the Tuesday show

Guests: Maureen Flatley, Julia Renfro, Bo Dietl, Blake Cater, Phil Peplinski, Wendy Murphy, Tanika Ray, Katrina Szish, Dustin Diamond

RITA COSBY, HOST:  Good evening, everybody.

Tonight, catching sexual predators.  Today, Congress was stunned after seeing shocking video of suspected Internet predators caught in the act by “Dateline NBC.” 


CHRIS HANSEN, DATELINE NBC:  Why did you come here?  Help me to understand?  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I‘m a sick son of a bitch.  I‘ve never done it before.  I talk about it online all the time.  I have never done anything with anybody except my wife.  Ever.  

HANSEN:  And you will never guess what this man does for a living. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I‘m in education. 

HANSEN:  You‘re in education. 


HANSEN:  A teacher? 


HANSEN:  What grade do you teach? 


HANSEN:  High school.



COSBY:  That‘s right, a teacher.  And among those testifying today, “Dateline‘s” Chris Hansen, who told me how Congress hopes to stop these perverts from preying on children. 


HANSEN:  The subcommittee is taking a look at the state of safety of children on the Internet, specifically having to do with Internet service providers and social networking sites.  And they want to figure out if the self-regulation system now in place is enough, or if new laws need to be enacted.  So they asked me to come testify and share with them the results of our five different computer predator investigations in five different states. 

COSBY:  You know, they looked very surprised.  We were watching the reactions.  What did you see from the members of Congress?  They looked stunned to see some of the things that you uncovered.  

HANSEN:  Well, most of the members of the subcommittee had seen, you know, some of our earlier investigations.  But we had prepared for them about a 10-minute clip reel with some of the highlights of some of the things we‘d uncovered.  And they were riveted in some cases, especially in the case of our Florida investigation, where we had a man show up to meet a decoy posing as a 14-year-old boy, and when he arrives, he brings his 5-year-old son with him.  And you can hear this, you know, moment where you could hear a pin drop in the subcommittee room.  I mean, they really—that really got their attention, I think. 

COSBY:  And in fact, Chris, we have that clip.  I want to show it to everybody at home.  It‘s eye opening. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Coming in the back door. 

HANSEN:  Holding his son‘s hand, the 40-year-old walks into the house. 

Because we don‘t want to scare the little boy, we immediately tell the man what‘s going on. 

I got to tell you something.  I‘m Chris Hansen with “Dateline NBC.”


COSBY:  In another case, you had a rabbi coming.  I want to show, because he actually confronted you. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I‘m not interested in getting any further in trouble.  Could you please just tell me who you are? 

HANSEN:  I‘m Chris Hansen with “Dateline NBC” and we‘re doing a story on computer predators. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Come on, guys. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  You‘ve got to stop this. 


COSBY:  Chris, you ever worry that these guys are going to get violent on you? 

HANSEN:  Well, in most cases, Rita, I think we have the element of surprise on our side.  In a number of cases, the men actually sort of figure out almost what‘s going on.  And sometimes they have seen one of our previous investigations. 

For the most part, you know, guys really don‘t get too aggravated about this.  Obviously, you saw that clip, it happened there.  But mostly, guys stay and talk and answer the questions. 

COSBY:  Let me show a bit more.  This is your actual testimony on Capitol Hill today, Chris.  


HANSEN:  We‘ve seen some real, you know, heavy duty cases of predators come in there who really—you read the chat logs and you feel like you have to take a shower.  So I mean, are there guys who could go to counseling and be better if they are watched?  Yes.  Are there guys who just can‘t be fixed by any other way than going to prison?  There‘s that, too. 


COSBY:  You know, Chris, did you get a sense today that Congress is going to actually find a solution to combating these online predators, or is it just a show? 

HANSEN:  Well, I think they are very concerned about it, and they were curious as to what we had found in our investigation.  I think it opened their eyes.  And the bottom line, and we‘ve been doing this for a couple of years now, to me still is the first line of defense is the parent.  And the parent needs to be open and honest with the child about the potential dangers out there.  And you need to be vigilant and know what your child is doing online, because kids are crafty, they are smart, they can get around parental filters and protective filters.  You have to have this conversation with your child. 


COSBY:  And our thanks to Chris Hansen. 

Well, Congress is not the only group trying to protect kids online.  Our friends at “America‘s Most Wanted” recently set up a sting to catch predators in the act.  Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Out of the car.  Out of the car.  Out of the car.   

JOHN WALSH, HOST, AMERICA‘S MOST WANTED:  OK, go.  Let‘s go.  Let‘s go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  They‘re very surprised when somebody runs out with a camera crew with John Walsh.  I think that‘s going to cause a pretty interesting reaction. 


COSBY:  And it certainly did. 

And we‘re joined now by Detective Jennifer Roberts of the Suffolk County, New York Police Department.  She took part in that sting with John Walsh that you just saw. 

Detective, what was the most surprising thing you learned about these guys that were nabbed? 


guy next door, they‘re—it‘s your neighbor, the guy down the road.  It‘s

there‘s no real monster here.  It‘s just guys that haven‘t necessarily even been arrested before. 

COSBY:  Which is staggering and even more surprising. 

Let me show a little more of this sting.  It‘s pretty dramatic, the action that you guys got involved with. 


WALSH:  Here‘s a guy driving around in a $100,000 plus car coming to specifically, purposely have sex with a 13-year-old. 

Oh, look at this guy.  He‘s a...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  He‘s a big guy.

WALSH:  He‘s pretty buffed up.  Look at him laughing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  All right, let‘s go get him.

WALSH:  Let‘s go, let‘s go.

Good work.  Good work, man.  Good work. 

He‘s got the condom right there!


COSBY:  You know, Detective, what makes these predators tick? 

ROBERTS:  You know, I don‘t really have the answer.  I don‘t know if anybody has the answer to that.  I mean, it almost seems like sometimes they get sucked into the computer and they start chatting.  And instead of, as soon as you start chatting with them, they say your age and they say see you later, they just keep chatting, and there is almost like a thrill in it for them because they right away start talking dirty with you. 

COSBY:  You know, the chat.  You hit it on the head.  Is online sort of enticing them, the anonymity of it all?  Is it creating more predators than maybe would be out there?  

ROBERTS:  I don‘t know if that‘s necessarily true.  I‘m sure there‘ll be some doctor out there that can probably give you an analysis of that.  All I know is, if you are chatting online and you start talking with somebody you think is 13, you should say, see you later and you should not be talking with them. 

COSBY:  Absolutely.  There‘s no reason to be talking to a kid online, especially, you know, someone who is a minor.  It‘s reprehensible. 

Let me show a little more of another bust. 


WALSH:  You are in big, big trouble.  Big trouble.  Big trouble. 

(inaudible) long time for you.  This is your day, buddy.  This is your day.

You came here to have sex with a 13-year-old girl. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I didn‘t want to have sex. 

WALSH:  Yes, you did.  Yes, you did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I asked to play basketball... 

WALSH:  You are—you got a history this long of being a liar, buddy. 

This is a bad day for you.  It‘s a bad day for you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  What‘s your name? 


WALSH:  I want to tell you one thing, bro.  You got away with it one time before, you are (EXPLETIVE DELETED) today.  You are (EXPLETIVE DELETED).


COSBY:  What advice do you have for parents out there, Detective, tonight, who are watching?

ROBERTS:  I guess the best advice you can give is watch your kids. 

Know what they‘re doing.  Don‘t allow the computers in their bedrooms.  It‘s as if you are letting a stranger into your child‘s bedroom if they are chatting online from their bedrooms.  Get them in the family room, where you can watch them. 

As parents, that‘s part of our job, is protecting our kids, know who they are talking to, know their screen name.  Is it an appropriate screen name?  And I think we need our kids—kids today are growing up with the Internet.  They‘re, you know, we didn‘t have this.  They need to show us sometimes.  Sit down with your kid and communicate, and talk with them about this. 

COSBY:  What do you want to say to these online predators tonight who are sort of surfing the Web, looking for youngsters? 

ROBERTS:  Oh, we‘re going to find you.  We‘re out there.  We‘re in the chatrooms, we‘re on all the different programs, all the hot spots, and we‘re going to find you and we‘re going to get you.

COSBY:  Detective Roberts, you keep up the great work.  Thank you so much.  

ROBERTS:  Thank you very much. 

COSBY:  So what should be done to stop sexual predators online that we have just talked about with Detective Roberts?  Well, let‘s ask child advocate (inaudible) who is sponsoring a bill against predators which is currently stalled in Congress.  Why is it stalled? 

MAUREEN FLATLEY, CHILD ADVOCATE:  Well, actually, on the way to the studio tonight, I found out that it‘s not so stalled anymore. 

COSBY:  Oh, that‘s good.  What did you find out?  What‘s the latest?

FLATLEY:  I think the bill is moving along, and it‘s been, in the Senate anyway, tacked on to a bill that is moving.  So we‘re reasonably optimistic that at least this one piece of this issue, which is really an issue of attempting to increase the civil penalties against these guys, will take effect relatively quickly. 

COSBY:  Did something turn because of all the attention today on the Hill?  Could that have had an impact? 

FLATLEY:  Well, as you know, there‘s been a series of hearings, including one in May, at which I testified, along with my clients, that have addressed this issue.  But I think that one of the concerns that we have, and perhaps one of the reasons that the bill was stalled, is that I think that Congress is both overwhelmed and confused by this problem.  It is a daunting proposition to take on what‘s not just an American issue but a global issue, in a medium which is almost entirely unregulated, and to which, as your prior guest eluded, many adults don‘t have the level of technical familiarity and expertise that perhaps our kids have.

COSBY:  You bet.  In fact, Maureen, let me—last night, we spoke to

a 19-year-old man.  He‘s accused of raping a 14-year-old girl that he met

online.  He was on our show last night.  He met her on  And he

actually had a warning for parents I thought was very powerful.  Let‘s play

this is what he said to us on the show last night.


PETER SOLIS, ACCUSED OF RAPE:  Just be aware of your children.  I mean, keep a close eye on them so they‘ll be safe.  Hopefully this doesn‘t happen to anybody else.


COSBY:  You know Maureen, how complex is it?  MySpace wasn‘t even there today.  How could you not have MySpace there?

FLATLEY:  Well I mean, I think that one of the biggest issues we have right now is that the industry needs to step up to the plate.

COSBY:  And why hasn‘t it?  After all of this attention?

FLATLEY:  Look, you know, they have gotten the big pass that everyone says, “Well, you know, we don‘t want to censor the Internet.”  And the notion that this is a First Amendment issue involving the Internet.

COSBY:  Yes, what do you say to the folks who say, “Look, it should be self regulated.”  You know, parents should do more?

FLATLEY:  Well first of all, if Google censor their political content to penetrate the Chinese market, they can attack this problem.  And MySpace is a perfect example of a service provider that can be much more proactive about what‘s going on in their site.

But in terms of this whole First Amendment argument, it‘s baloney.  This is not a First Amendment issue.  This is a question of protecting children from harm.  We are not sitting here talking about adults.  In the case of my client, Masha Allen, she was deliberated procured using the International Adoption System, by a predator who could have been detected prior to the adoption and who brought her to the United States specifically to hold her hostage for five years.  And it was only by the grace of God that she was located and rescued two—almost three years ago.

COSBY:  And Maureen, that was a horrible case and I‘m glad that you are representing her and fighting for her because boy, she deserves it. 

I want to show—some of the arrests are staggering.  Some of the numbers, and there has been a dramatic increase in arrests in just a nine-year span.  Some of the numbers: 1996, 68 arrests.  These are for sexual predators online.  And 2005, look at this, over 1,600 arrests, that‘s more than a 2,000 percent increase.  That‘s a whopping amount, 2,325 percent.

Are you surprised at the number and these 1,000 plus that have been arrested?  Is that just the tip on the iceberg?  Just the guys who got caught?

FLATLEY:  Well, as the daughter of a FBI agent, I must say that I‘m actually deeply concerned that the numbers are so low.  In fact, we have something like a half a million Web sites.

COSBY:  Yes, look at how quick it was for Chris Hansen and everybody to get these guys.

FLATLEY:  Right.  I mean, what Chris has done that I think is so powerful is that he has really demonstrated to the American people that we‘re not talking about the Unibomber.  We‘re not talking about the guy in the “Silence of the Lambs.”  We‘re talking about school teachers and rabbis and college presidents.  These people live amongst us.  And we just have to be much, much more vigilant about it.

COSBY:  You bet.  Maureen, thank you very much.  We‘re glad to have you with us.  Thank you, and educate folks at home.  Still, ahead, is there a new witness locked up tonight in the Natalee Holloway case?  Some details coming up and a whole lot more.


ANNOUNCER:  Still ahead, it‘s the hottest thing in cyberspace.  Shocking videos of young men beating each other to a pulp.  Some are friends, some are enemies.  We‘ll tell you why these modern day gladiators could end up behind bars.

And you‘re about to watch as Joran Van Der Sloot gets slapped with a law suit, literally.  Why is the tape out now?  Will Joran ever face a trial for the vanishing of Natalee Holloway?

And it‘s the hot topic of celebrity dish.  Star Jones blindsides her cohosts on “The View.”

STAR JONES REYNOLDS, CO-HOST, THE VIEW:  I will not be returning as co-host next year.

ANNOUNCER:  Is her departure a slick media move or is Star‘s light not so bright?

Plus, remember Screech from “Saved by the Bell?”  Wait until you hear why he‘s asking for your help.  He‘s coming up, LIVE & DIRECT.




BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  We still haven‘t heard a final answer on whether this Colombian witness is really credible or not.  We still haven‘t heard from the judge.  So, it‘s difficult.  But there‘s still some things to come.


COSBY:  And tonight, a secret in the Natalee Holloway case has been exposed.  There has been a new arrest, one that‘s very much been kept under wraps.  Aruban police have nabbed a Colombian national to find out what he may have seen the night the Alabama teen vanished.  And if you can believe it, he‘s been behind bars since last month. 

So, just who is this person and how did it all go down?  On the phone with us right now from Aruba is Julia Renfro with the “Aruba Today” newspaper.  Julia, who is this guy?

JULIA RENFRO, ARUBA TODAY (on phone):  Hi, Rita.  Well, the only thing we know at this point is his name is Carlos and he‘s from Columbia and he has pertinent information claiming to have witnessed a possible murder.  He‘s not very specific in that it was Natalee, but it was the night that Natalee disappeared.  He claims to have heard screaming, he claims to have heard somebody being dragged out in the ocean and being held under water.

COSBY:  And where exactly does he say that he heard the screaming and saw someone being dragged?  And did he describe somebody blond like Natalee?  And someone looking like Joran or the Kalpoe brothers?

RENFRO:  He claims to have seen a small young lady with a talk young man.  He was not able to clarify whether or not the type of vehicle.  You have to imagine up by the lighthouse, it‘s extremely dark.  And apparently, he had a fight or some kind of controversy with his wife and had driven up there to just relax and watch the ocean and watch the waves.  And he was woken up by screaming, as he says.  And he started peeking around the rocks and that‘s when he claims he saw.

COSBY:  And why did police decide to arrest him now a year later?  How did word get out of what this guy is claiming?

RENFRO:  Well, he came forward several months ago actually, already.  Excuse me.  He spoke to members of the media, who brought him to the authorities, basically pushing him to the direction that it‘s his responsibility to tell what he saw.

COSBY:  And Julia, are authorities taking him seriously?  Credible?  Or are they saying, wait a minute, this seems a little too wacky to believe.

RENFRO:  Well, you have to understand that the authorities are not speaking with anybody at this point.  The prosecutor‘s office is not speaking to the press or anybody else.  And they are basically just making a strong dedication and commitment to the case to solve it.

COSBY:  How long can they hold this guy?

RENFRO:  And they‘re not interested in you, they‘re not interested in me.

COSBY:  How long can they hold him, Julia?  What‘s the law, how long can they keep him?

RENFRO:  Well that‘s up to the judge.  And it works out to be 180 days.  I doubt that will happen.  What they‘re doing at this point, they are searching and they‘re investigating the points and details that this man has brought forward.  And if any of the details that he‘s brought forward are brought forward to be credible, of course, he will be continued to be detained.  And it‘s not because he‘s a suspect.  It‘s because unfortunately, he‘s an illegal alien.  He‘s living on the island of Aruba without permission.  And just like in the United States, which you guys very well know, you can‘t just go and live on somebody else‘s country.

COSBY:  Absolutely.  So, they are holding him on those grounds.  Julia, please keep us posted, thank you very much.  An interesting development.  And as Aruban police press this new witness for information and see where it goes, we‘re getting our first look at the actual moment suspect Joran Van Der Sloot was slapped with the Holloway family‘s civil lawsuit in quite dramatic fashion.  You may remember it all happened back in February during Joran‘s trip to New York.  This exchange caught on videotape was pretty heated.  Here it is.


JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, SUSPECTED IN NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE:  Don‘t touch me, please don‘t touch me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  These are legal papers.

VAN DER SLOOT:  Don‘t touch me, please don‘t touch me.


VAN DER SLOOT:  Please don‘t touch me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Don‘t put your hands on me.  Don‘t you put your hands on me.  Well don‘t get in the way, these are legal papers.


COSBY:  And the tape is being released as Natalee‘s family waits to find out whether the civil lawsuit has a future, will hold up in New York court. 

Private investigator Bo Dietl, who actually was the guy delivering the paperwork directly to Joran says this tape that he has is the key to the case.

BO DIETL, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR:  When the plant hit the ground, I had him served on the plane by himself.  There was really no witnesses.

COSBY:  But why serve him again?  Why does he need to be served again at the airport?  Some people say this was over the top?

DIETL:  Well my opinion on this one was this is a very important case.  It was just him and somebody else on the plane.  So, there was no other witnesses.  This way, we videotaped it and there wouldn‘t be any kind of a decision that he was not served properly or whatever.  And I felt as thought this is an important enough case that we should serve him again.  This way we have video evidence of him being served.

COSBY:  You know, you kept asking him a lot of questions. 


DIETL:  Where did you bury her?


COSBY:  Is that crossing the line, do you think?  Was that heavy handed?

DIETL:  Well, I‘m a father of two daughters.  And I‘m sick and tired of listening to the lies.  This guy changed his story about nine times.  He knows what happened there.  And there‘s no doubt in my mind.  And if I had that—that was the father out of me coming out of me.  And just the way he tried to avoid the service when the producer gave me a shove there. 

And then he had a coat over his head, he looked like Darth Vader.  He

was trying to hide himself.  He came over here to do an interview to try to

explain his noninvolvement with the disappearance of Natalee.  And I just -

my fatherly thing came out.  You know what?  Maybe it was a little over the top, but I was waiting to try to provoke him and try to get the anger that I know he has inside of him out.


DIETL:  And the next time you push me, I‘m going put your head right...


COSBY:  Did you see any anger?  What kind of reaction and did he say anything to you?

DIETL:  Well he looked at me with these eyes, oh he wanted to, I thought he was going to react to me.  And I obviously wasn‘t going to go over the line with myself.  I asked him some questions.  Where did you hide the body?  Why don‘t you tell us where you put the body?

COSBY:  What did he say?  What did he do, Bo?

DIETL:  He just gave me some vicious looking eyes.  But you know what, I had no problem with that.

COSBY:  You know, you looked at this guy face to face.  Obviously a lot of people have suspected him of some pretty big stuff.  Do you believe he‘s capable of kidnapping and murder?

DIETL:  I believe that he‘s very capable of raping a girl, he‘s a very big man.  He‘s 6‘6.  He looks like a very strong man.  He‘s not a boy, he‘s a man, 6‘6, and I believe his oversize and his overpower, that he‘s done this before and very possibly he utilized these very prevalent date rape drugs that are all over the Caribbean.  And these kids and families that go there, they‘ve got to be aware.  And the Aruban authorities, they screwed up this investigation from the beginning.  And if they can‘t keep their investigations and their policing in line, we shouldn‘t go to Aruba.

COSBY:  Right now this guy‘s roaming free.  Is it possible, as we look at it Bo, that this guy is just being falsely accused and you and others are going over the top on it?

DIETL:  Well all I know is every week, every month, something new pops out, some erroneous lead, some erroneous new person.  Let‘s be honest with you.

The fact of the matter is, Joran Van Der Sloot was one of the last ones that was seen with Natalee Holloway.  He‘s put himself with her. He‘s made admissions of being with her on the beach.  He is the one that least seen her alive, so he certainly has a lot more information.  If he tells the truth and if we can find out the truth, we may be able to uncover where and how Natalee was lost.

COSBY:  You know, we see in the video, he‘s resisting accepting the papers.  How did you read that?

DIETL:  Well, when he‘s resisting the papers, the producer came up and gave me a shove.


VAN DER SLOOT:  Please don‘t touch me, please don‘t touch me.


VAN DER SLOOT:  Please don‘t touch me, please don‘t touch me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Don‘t put your hands on me.  Don‘t you put your hands on me, pal.


DIETL:  And I say, I‘m doing a legal process here of court papers. 

You can‘t push me.

COSBY:  Yes, it got pretty heated with you and the producer.

DIETL:  Well the producer—I think he landed on his backside.

COSBY:  As a result of you?

DIETL:  Yes, he had very slippery shoes.  He should have been wearing sneakers.  He had some shoes that he slipped and he went down on his butt.  And then Van Der Sloot wouldn‘t take the papers and I just ended up stuffing them in his jacket. 

And I think that was a very good, proper service.  And then after that, I walked him out and I just tried to ask him a couple of questions.  You know we are also conducting the investigation for John Kelly, my firm.  So I do know a lot about the case.  I just thought it would be a nice, opportune moment to ask him a few questions, like where did you bury the body, Joran Van Der Sloot, whatever his name is.

COSBY:  Bo Dietl, thanks so much, Bo.

DIETL:  Rita, thank you.

COSBY:  And still ahead, Star Jones drops a bombshell today right in the middle of her television show.  We‘ll tell you why it was a shock to everybody, including Barbara Walters. 

And is this really legal?  Public fist fights, wait until you hear what some people are doing with these tapes.   Should they be going to jail?  That‘s coming up.


COSBY:  In our “Hot Topic,” it‘s a disturbing online craze.  Teens and young adults videotaping their fights, then posting them on the net.  So, what‘s fueling this craze?  And should the people in the videos be punished for their actions? 

Joining us now is Blake Cater, who posts videos of his own fights online, and also, Phil Peplinski, who acquires fight videos and posts them on his Web site called, get this, 

Let me start with you before I get to the Web site, but Blake, let me start with you first.  You know, why do you do this?

BLAKE CATER, POSTS FIGHT VIDEOS ON INTERNET:  Well, it started with me and my brothers.  We‘d just kind of get in the backyard, wrestle around.  And there was four of us, so if you add one of us bring a friend, then it becomes eight, and then it kind of branched off from that.  And everybody just, you know, wanted to wrestle, and then somebody wanted to fight. 

COSBY:  And how long have you been doing it for?  And how long have you been putting it online? 

CATER:  Well, we‘ve done it for probably a good five, six years.  And I‘m just now getting them online, though. 

COSBY:  You know, Phil, you post a lot of these online.  But you don‘t buy them and you don‘t sell them?  Why do you do it?  What‘s motivating you, Phil? 

PHIL PEPLINSKI, POSTS FIGHT VIDEOS ONLINE:  No, I don‘t buy them and don‘t sell them.  You have to understand where the Web site came from.  First, I‘m a martial arts instructor, and as I was teaching adults over the years, it became quite obvious that most adults have never been in a real, street-level confrontation. 

COSBY:  But how is this martial arts?  I mean, this is just like grunt fighting.  This is a big—there‘s no art here.   

PEPLINSKI:  No, if you want to understand how to defend yourself, you better take a look at how humans fight and how they attack.

COSBY:  Yeah, but then why not throw in a pack of lions, too?  Where do you draw the line, Phil?  

PEPLINSKI:  Well, lions generally aren‘t on the street as you are walking to your car with your packages after Christmas shopping.  So, you know, as far as using a pack of lions analogy, that just doesn‘t fit.

You need to look at how humans react.  What‘s the first attack?  And you need to understand the nature of true violence. 

COSBY:  You know, Blake, are you inspired—you know, there‘s—obviously, everybody thinks of shows like “Jackass” where people became famous for essentially beating the heck out of each other?  Are you inspired by things like that?  Is that what drove you here?

CATER:  No, no, we‘ve been doing it—like I said, this was just a bunch of brothers in the backyard wrestling around, and then it just got bigger than that.

COSBY:  Isn‘t there another way to find sort of brotherly love and camaraderie? 

CATER:  Well, we played football, and during the course of playing football, there was broken fingers, dislocated shoulders and stuff.  And if we fought, it was just busted lips and bloody noses and everything. 

COSBY:  Yeah, but isn‘t there—why don‘t you take up bingo or do something that‘s a little less destructive? 

CATER:  I don‘t know.  Like I said, we just wrestled and then fighting was the next step up. 

COSBY:  How popular are these fights?  How many people are logging on and actually watching them online, Blake? 

CATER:  I‘m pretty sure a lot. 

PEPLINSKI:  I would know that.  He doesn‘t know that. 

COSBY:  Go ahead.  Go ahead.

PEPLINSKI:  Yes, on, I‘m averaging about 22,000 to 25,000 unique visitors a day right now. 

COSBY:  Wow!  And any rules, you guys?  Any rules? 

PEPLINSKI:  Well, I have rules as to what I put on my site and what I won‘t. 

COSBY:  Blake, what about rules in the fights? 

CATER:  Yes, yes, some of them don‘t want to punch.  Some of them just want to just grapple and try to, you know, put each other into submission. 

COSBY:  But is there a limit where you say, wait a minute?  Who‘s the judge? 

CATER:  We have people that you know—everybody that is not fighting kind of watches over, and we‘re not going to let them hit them why they‘re down or anything.

COSBY:  All right, you guys.  Let me bring into the conversation former prosecutor Wendy Murphy.  Wendy, what do you think?  What do you make of this as you are watching?  I‘m in disbelief. 

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR:  I sort of feel like I‘m on a “Saturday Night Live” skit and someone forget to tell these guys it‘s a comedy or a joke, a sick joke at that. 

COSBY:  What do you make of the fact that you know, Phil says it‘s instructional, look, this is what people face on the streets, you better be able to handle someone coming up and throwing a punch at you like this? 

MURPHY:  Well, look, the fact is, there are other ways to teach about what real fighting is like, in the sense that he wants to teach people how to defend themselves, than videotaping actually human beings actually beating the hell out of each other. 

You know, this is like snuff films.  And even though it doesn‘t seem that people are dying, the fact is, we don‘t sell or promote, celebrate as entertainment or much less make money off of snuff films.  Why?  Because we actually think it‘s a good idea to preserve the dignity and the value of human life.  And when you sell...

COSBY:  And let me show you, this is what Google Video has to say about posting fights online.  We were looking for a quote.  This is what they said.  They said: “We try to be as open as possible.  Our number one goal is to get as much content online as possible, as long as it doesn‘t offend.”  

Do you consider these offensive, Wendy? 

MURPHY:  Oh, my God?  Is that a rhetorical question?  There‘s no doubt this is offensive to mainstream America if not over 99 percent of human beings who care about violence prevention or the fact that we should be civilized to each other. 

COSBY:  Phil, where do you draw the line?  What do you say to Wendy? 

PEPLINSKI:  I say that I‘d like to know a better way of teaching people self-defense if they don‘t know how a violent attack will occur or how people will attack you. 

MURPHY:  We‘ve had lots of successful self-defense schools that have made quite, you know, successful business teaching self-defense without this.  So I don‘t buy that.  You can use simulated, you know, tapes.  You can use one over and over.  You don‘t have to make hundreds and hundreds of them and keep making it more violent and more offensive. 

PEPLINSKI:  I‘m not making it more violent.  Society makes it...

MURPHY:  You don‘t need more than one. 

PEPLINSKI:  Society creates these things.  And if you don‘t see it...


COSBY:  ... horrible things, unfortunately too, rapes and other things.  You want to tape that, and then say this is how you prevent it? 

PEPLINSKI:  Are you suggesting that I put rapes on my Web site? 

COSBY:  I‘m just saying to you, where do you draw the line?  Using that argument, where do you draw the line?  Where do you say that this is OK?  I mean, society—unfortunately, there are a lot of horrible things out there.  Do you put them all on videotape? 

PEPLINSKI:  Well, I‘ll give you an example of some things that I have received that are submitted to me that I don‘t put online.  And that is like a hate group filming five or six people approaching and attacking an unsuspecting person, just for no reason whatsoever, and just kicking the living tar out of them. 

MURPHY:  Why not put that out there?  Maybe you should teach people about what a hate group is doing so that you can best prevent it? 


PEPLINSKI:  Wendy, I have...

COSBY:  ... can‘t they do what they want to do voluntarily?  If they want to (inaudible)?

MURPHY:  No, you know what, you also can‘t jump off Niagara Falls in a barrel just because you want to.  Rita, we‘re supposed to have laws that prevent violence, and this behavior does cause kids to repeat it, and it causes... 

PEPLINSKI:  No, it doesn‘t.


MURPHY:  ... imitate the behavior that‘s not good for civility. 

COSBY:  Phil, are you inspiring other kids to do the same? 

PEPLINSKI:  Absolutely not.  I‘m not inspiring other kids to do this any more than you are inspiring other people to go to war by showing images of Iraq.

COSBY:  OK.  That‘s going to have to be the last word, both of you.  Very interesting.  Thanks so much.  And there is a lot more coming up here on MSNBC tonight. 

Let‘s check in with Tucker Carlson now with a preview.  Tucker, what do you have?  What do you make of this, too, what you just saw? 

TUCKER CARLSON, HOST, THE SITUATION:  You know, when Wendy Murphy is involved, Rita, I never know quite what to make of it.   


CARLSON:  On our show tonight, Rush Limbaugh busted for illicit erection drugs.  First they came for Rush Limbaugh.  Is anyone safe in our nation, is the question? 

Then, Joe Biden, senator from Delaware, says he would rather be making love with his wife than be president.  It‘s a very passionate show tonight on “THE SITUATION.”  Rita, I hope you will watch. 

COSBY:  Yes, and can you say that word again, Tucker, to hear you say erection drugs is pretty interesting. 

CARLSON:  There‘s so many words in those two sentences, Rita.  You‘re going to have to tune in to hear more. 

COSBY:  Well, I will tune in.  You can‘t miss that one.  Tucker, than you very much.  “THE SITUATION” at the top of the hour. 

And coming up, you remember him as Screech from the TV sitcom, “Saved by the Bell.”  But tonight, it appears that he‘s in big trouble and needs your help.  He‘s going to join me next to explain. 

And also next, Star Jones drops a bombshell on “The View.”  She surprised everyone by confirming a big rumor.  Find out what she did.  Celebrity dish is next. 



REYNOLDS:  Something has been on my heart for a little bit.  And after much prayer and counsel, I feel like this is the right time to tell you that the show is moving in another direction for the tenth season and I will not be returning as co-host next year.


COSBY:  And that‘s the latest bombshell that the daytime diva dropped this morning on national T.V.  That‘s right, Star Jones Reynolds made the stunning announcement today to leave “The View” after working on the talk show for nine straight years, shocking not only the audience, but also the viewers.  But even more so, her fellow co-hosts.

And that‘s not all.  We‘re also learning that it may not have been her choice to leave the show after all.  For tonight‘s celebrity dish, we have with us “US Weekly” reporter Katrina Szish and also Extra T.V.‘s Tanika Ray, two of our favorites right here in the house.


TANIKA RAY, EXTRA TV:  How are you?

COSBY:  Ladies in the house, right?

SZISH:  Absolutely!

COSBY:  What did you guys think?  Were you surprised by the move, Tanika?

RAY:  Not at all, it was the worst kept secret in television.

COSBY:  Were you surprised by the way she did it?

RAY:  No, that was surprising.  It was definitely—it took all of the attention off of the Meredith thing—Meredith leaving and Rosie coming and put everything on Star, which I think was a brilliant move. 

One of the other things that we were talking about earlier is that, you know, poor Star, now she‘s the victim because she‘s saying to “People” magazine exclusively, which we‘ve all heard now, that she was fired.  She‘s not leaving on her own will, which changes everything.

COSBY:  And in fact, let me put this up, because it‘s interesting, the contrast.  Because of “The View,” this is what she said.

She said, “I‘ve spent an amazing nine years as part of ‘The View‘ family, and they have been the most professionally and personally rewarding years of my life.” 

But then as you point out Tanika, and to “People” magazine, she says, “What you don‘t know is that my contract was not renewed for the 10th season.  I feel like I was fired.”

Katrina, what do you make of these statements?

SZISH:  I think she‘s being very honest.  And I think it‘s very smart of her to be that honest. 

COSBY:  To get out in front of it?

SZISH:  Yes, absolutely not saying, “You know what, I made this decision, I did it.”  Instead it‘s like, if someone breaks up with you, you want to be the one to say, “You know what, he broke up with me.”  And she‘s doing that and I think that‘s brilliant.

COSBY:  You know, heard the reactions from the co-hosts was pretty amazing today.  You could tell, their jaws just dropped.  This is Barbara Walters, legendary Barbara Walters seen everything, been everywhere and I don‘t think she expected Star Jones to leave today.  Here‘s Barbara Walters.


BARBARA WALTERS, CO-HOST, THE VIEW:  We‘ve heard rumors, we have read rumors.  This is a surprise that this would come about this way.  We did not expect it.  It is my joy that we have had you for nine years.

REYNOLDS:  Thank you very much, Barbara.

WALTERS:  And you know, my sadness that turns out this way.  Oh, how long are you going to be with us?


RAY:  Wow!

COSBY:  How long are you going to be with us?  Look at your eyes right now.

RAY:  You know what?  Because there‘s so much going on.  There‘s subtext there.  Who knows what‘s going on.  There are people who are reporting that there‘s been wars, they‘ve been battling behind the scenes for a really long time.  So I don‘t know if we‘ll ever know in the near future.  I‘m sure Star will write a book and we‘ll find out later on.

COSBY:  I know Star, I like her, it is brilliant on her part.

SZISH:  It is.  But it‘s also—seeing Barbara really for a loss for words might be a rare moment in the history of journalism.

COSBY:  Absolutely.  What was your reaction?  Were you surprised how shocked she was?

SZISH:  Yes, I was because I assumed that of course this was all planned beforehand, everybody sort of knew, Star was really making her announcement to the audience, to the viewers, as opposed to her co-hosts.  But it really does not look like that was the case.

COSBY:  And speaking of her co-hosts, this was a little bit more. 

This is a little bit of the joking on air?

RAY:  Must be Joy.

COSBY:  It is Joy.


JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, THE VIEW:  I have always been fond of you, but since you became a skinny bitch—it‘s not been in the same.  We were sisters in the chubbiness.  OK.

REYNOLDS:  And we always will be.


COSBY:  You‘re laughing now Tanika.  What do you think happened after the show?

RAY:  You know what, you never can tell.  Joy loves to put the little funniness and sort of veil what‘s really going on underneath.  When Star first said she was leaving, Joy said, “Shocking,” which could have been read in so many different ways.

COSBY:  Do you believe there was some emergency meeting afterwards?

RAY:  Absolutely.

COSBY:  What do you think?  How many emergency meeting?

RAY:  Just one long emergency meeting because it‘s true, Barbara doesn‘t even know when her last day is going to be.  So that‘s the most important thing?  What are they going to do?  Are they going to have a big send off for Star too?  Probably not.

COSBY:  One of the other things too is of course the Rosie O‘Donnell factor.  You‘ve got this, because Rosie is obviously coming on too.

RAY:  How disappointed are you that you are not going to be able to see that?

COSBY:  And now you won‘t—that‘s right, I was going to ask you. 

The Rosie moment with Star Jones?

SZISH:  I was waiting for that, I have to say.

COSBY:  Are viewers going to be disappointed and for ratings?

SZISH:  That was going to be a big moment.

RAY:  It was going to be brilliant and now all of us are denied that.

SZISH:  But again, we‘re talking about Star making a brilliant move.  I think that was a brilliant move on her part not to put herself into that situation.  It could have gotten ugly, yes.

COSBY:  Where do you guys see it headed now?  What do you see is next for Star?

SZISH:  Well, it depends on who they hire to replace Star.

COSBY:  Who do you think will?  There was word that Oprah‘s gal? 

Oprah‘s—the lovely Gayle King.  I love Gayle.


RAY:  Gayle would be brilliant.  Really, she‘s funny, she‘s  interesting, I think that would have been a really good choice.

COSBY:  What do you think‘s next for Star Jones, Katrina?

SZISH:  I think she‘s going to have her own show and I think it might be some sort of a reality-type-talk show.

COSBY:  What do you think, Tanika?

RAY:  Well, I think definitely, she‘s going to set up—a reality type talk show?  She‘s definitely going out on her own and she‘s going to have her own show, absolutely.

SZISH:  No, it‘s not going to be part of an entourage—it‘s not going to be part of an—I should say an ensemble cast.  It will be Star and only Star.  Or maybe some Al on the side.

RAY:  And this is a great way to bring her fans with her.  Look at me, I‘ve got fire, but you stay with me people and we‘re going to make a great television show.

COSBY:  Right and here we go.  Ladies in the house, thanks very much. 

Good to see you both.

RAY:  Thanks, Rita.

COSBY:  And still ahead, everybody, you remember him as Screech from the T.V. show, “Saved By The Bell.”  But coming up, find out why he‘s now hoping that you at home can save him.  There he is.  He‘s going to be looking for your help, he‘s coming up next, there he is.



DUSTIN DIAMOND, ACTOR:  And here we find Lisa, waiting for her luggage.  And how do you like Hawaii so far, Lisa? 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Screech, take a hike.  



COSBY:  Well, millions knew him as the dorky high school character Screech Powers on the hit TV sitcom “Saved by the Bell.”  Now, actor Dustin Diamond needs help to save his house in Wisconsin.  In 30 days, Diamond will lose his home to foreclosure if he doesn‘t raise $250,000.  The actor says he is broke, and in a last-ditch effort to get the cash, Diamond is asking the public to buy these t-shirts at $15 a pop.

So is his plan working?  Joining me now is Dustin Diamond, aka Screech. 

You know, why are you asking the public for help?  Why not take out a loan, Screech? 

DIAMOND:  Well, first of all, Rita, I want to bring out some breaking news now.  This just in, I unfortunately sadly will not be co-hosting “The View” any longer, or any more. 

COSBY:  You know, I was going to ask you that, I was going to ask you that, if you were going to wear skirts and everything else too? 

DIAMOND:  It‘s not my choice, they just have not asked me yet. 

Well, first of all, I am not broke, and I made good money doing stand-up, and it‘s not in foreclosure. 

However, I did get involved with a guy out here in Wisconsin who sold me a house on a land contract, and gave me 30 days to pay off the remainder of the house for $250,000, which I make good money, but I don‘t have $250,000 just laying around in a shoe box.  Brad Pitt maybe.  Screech, not so much.

COSBY:  Why not take out a loan? 

DIAMOND:  Well, the reason I got the land contract was because it was difficult to get a loan due to fraudulent stuff that was done in my name on a credit—to my credit a while back, as well as being a self-employed actor for two years, because that‘s when I incorporated, two years ago.  And as a stand-up comedian, my income is always different.  So lenders see me as a high liability, because I can‘t give them a set monthly income with a set employer.

COSBY:  So why not get a regular job, like a 9:00 to 5:00 job? 

DIAMOND:  Well, because I make a lot more money doing my stand-up comedy, touring the improvs and funny bones around the county, as well as putting out a Showtime special soon.

But though I make good money, enough to pay my bills and set some aside, set some scratch aside for myself, I do not make $250,000 a month.  So I came up with this idea to sell d-shirts.  And my Web site is  Of course, the picture on the shirt shows me in front of a dilapidated shack in the Wisconsin woods, looking all frazzled like Nick Nolte‘s arrest photo.  And on the back of it says...

COSBY:  What kind of reaction are you getting? 

DIAMOND:  Oh, the reaction—in five days, we had well over a million this.  The public is rallying behind me.

Let‘s face it, I am not asking for a handout.  I am selling t-shirts.  People can buy it to support the cause, buy it just because they like it, or not buy it at all. 

But it is a cult classic.  We wanted to free Wynona.  We rallied together to vote for Pedro.  Now it‘s time to save Screech‘s house. 

COSBY:  And by the way, Screech, we did ask for donations in the studio.  I got $5 so far.  Can we get a t-shirt or get a hat or sleeves?  Actually, we‘re (inaudible) -- my director is going to double it, so we have 10 bucks.  

DIAMOND:  It‘s $15 for a t-shirt at, or $20 if you want it signed. 

And I am just being honest with my public.  I am not broke and there is no foreclose yet, but I‘m just stopping this guy in his tracks. 

COSBY:  You know, I have a quick question.  You know, you were on Howard Stern‘s show, and you said that you made $2 million for the four-year run of the very popular show, “Saved by the Bell.”  What happened to all that money?  

DIAMOND:  It was actually a 10-year run, ‘88 to ‘98, and you know, that was back in ‘88, first of all, and course parents mishandling money, as so often happens with child stars.  I was protected by the Jackie Coogan law for 25 percent of my earnings since then.

Remember, I am a child star who has never been arrested.  I am not a drunk, I‘m not a druggy.  I don‘t even smoke cigarettes.  But as it happens, I am not a real estate expert either. 

COSBY:  And how much have you raised so far?  And are you a bit embarrassed that you‘ve got to go to these lengths?  What about calling your former stars?  You know, they have got to have a lot of bucks? 

DIAMOND:  No, no, there is no embarrassment.  And I don‘t think they have a lot of dough.  I mean, you have seen “Pet Star,” let‘s be honest.  You know, a permed mullet can only get you so far in this business.  He‘ll be selling his own t-shirt later.

COSBY:  What about Tiffani Amber Thiessen?  Right, Tiffani Amber Thiessen was on “Saved by the Bell.”  Doesn‘t she have some bucks you could loan? 

DIAMOND:  Yeah, I don‘t know how well she is doing either.  All I know is that my stand-up career is booming and I have been selling these t-shirts around the country, and basically getting the world out there for my Web site,  People can check it out.  They can learn what happened on the story tab on the Web site, and really get a feel for what happened behind the scenes.  A lot of people around the world can fall into this kind of real estate trap that I fell into, and luckily I am rallying the public behind me to fight this injustice that is happening to the D-Man. 

COSBY:  Well, we are putting it out there, and great to have you on.  We would love to have you back and get an update and see how things are going. 

We are doubling our efforts here.  We might have $20 by the end of the show. 

Thanks so much.

DIAMOND:  Awesome.  We‘ll reach our cause.

COSBY:  And we‘ll be right back, everybody. 


COSBY:  And “Caught by Cosby.”  Tonight, more drama from the wild weather rain and havoc on the East Coast.  Take a look.  A ferry that carries people from mainland North Carolina to the outer banks got stuck, and all the passengers had to be rescued.  A cross breeze blew the ferry off course, and onto a sand bar.  No one was hurt, but it did take quite a while to get everybody off.

And that does it for me on LIVE & DIRECT, everybody.  I‘m Rita Cosby. 

Have a great night.  “THE SITUATION” with Tucker starts right now—




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