'Scarborough Country' for July 24

Guests: Samantha Cole, Maureen Seaberg, R. Couri Hay, Jessica Sierra, Bex Schwartz, Jill Dobson, Debra Opri, Heidi Klum, Eric Braverman, Katie Caperton, Ric Robinson, Alex Sanz


They‘re calling him Peter the cheater, Christie Brinkley‘s soon to be ex-hubby Peter Cook.  Tonight, new allegations about his mysterious past.  In her first live interview, we‘re going to talk with Samantha Cole.  She‘s the woman who loved Peter Cook and lost him when she, too, was 19 years old.

Then: Attention “American Idol” fans.  It‘s the hottest question out there.  where is Katharine?  She‘s AWOL from the national tour amid talk of health problems, backstage intrigue and just plain old bad manners.  So where is Katharine McPhee?  We‘re going to have that answer tonight.  And Oprah speaks, the queen of talk addressing rumors about her gal pal, Gayle King, again.  Plus: If Oprah wants this story to go away, why does she keep talking about it herself?

Good evening, everybody.  I‘m Rita Cosby, in for Joe tonight.  We‘re going to have those stories tonight, plus a whole lot more.  The Tom Cruise/Katie Holmes baby mystery—Could the Church of Scientology be the reason that baby has been kept in?  We‘re going to have that story, as well.

But first, supermodel Christie Brinkley‘s marriage meltdown—younger women, a potential lawsuit, and now Peter Cook‘s 1982 mug shot surfaces, his double life unraveling, as “The New York Post” reports now that he served time for selling cocaine to an undercover cop at a rest stop, of all places.

Pop singer Samantha Cole is here for her first live interview with her startling claim that Peter the cheater wooed her years ago, when she was just a teenager, a story shockingly like the other teen, Diana Bianchi, claims.


(voice-over): Supermodel Christie Brinkley seemed to have it all—a successful career, a loving marriage, kids, even a 23-acre estate in the posh Hamptons.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Wonderful things seem to happen.

COSBY:  But it all came crashing down when it was alleged that her husband, Peter Cook, had an affair with his 19-year-old assistant, reportedly giving her cash, even a car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  It‘s a classic case of seduction.

COSBY:  As the scandal grows, new questions about who is Mr. Christie Brinkley, Peter Cook, the dashing architect to the rich and powerful.  One woman who may shed light, singer Samantha Cole.  She says Cook seduced her a decade ago, when she was also 19, even offering to help her career.  But she ultimately ended the relationship.  A month later, Cook was engaged to Christie Brinkley.


And joining me now, Samantha Cole, live right here in the studio.  Samantha, there were reports that Peter called you saying reporters may be calling.  Is that true?

SAMANTHA COLE, FORMER GIRLFRIEND OF BRINKLEY‘S HUSBAND:  Yes.  We maintained a friendship for 10 years, you know, on and off, and I guess he kind of knew that this was going to happen.  I didn‘t know anything about it, really.  I just got a call saying, Oh, some people may call you, and that was it.  And I...

COSBY:  And did he tell you what they were going to be asking about?

COLE:  No.  I had no idea.

COSBY:  And what was your reaction when you heard that?

COLE:  I was kind of shocked, you know, and then just said, like, Wow, that‘s just—I didn‘t ever expect it to be something to that—to that degree, so...

COSBY:  Was he nervous?  Did he say, Oh, my whole life is going to be unraveled now?

COLE:  You know, he didn‘t.  Like I said, I asked what it was, and he wouldn‘t—he just said, Oh, I can‘t really talk about it.  And I asked if he was OK because I was a little worried about him, you know, because it sounded kind of serious, so—but yes, maybe.  I would be, I guess.

COSBY:  You know, we‘ve heard these other stories about this other woman, Diana Bianchi...

COLE:  Right.

COSBY:  ... and meets her—she‘s got a toy store.  He goes in with Christie Brinkley and the kids.  She‘s 17 at the time.  It‘s coming out now that she—you know, obviously, she‘s 19 now...

COLE:  Right.

COSBY:  ... has this affair.  Did you say, Boy, that sounds similar?

COLE:  Yes, it was very similar.  And I—I read it, and then someone said, Oh—you know, I‘ve got these calls saying, This is, like, the story I wrote about with you eight years ago with him.  And actually, Roger Friedman (ph) wrote about us, and he was the only one, I think, that did a story on me and Peter.  And it was the exact same story, so—but 10 years later.

COSBY:  What was your reaction when you heard about this new claim?

COLE:  I was just, like—I was in shock, again, because Peter is very, you know, big on family and loves his kids and just didn‘t—I never thought he would do something like that.  I never -- 10 years married is a long time.

COSBY:  How did you start your relationship?  Where did you meet Peter Cook?

COLE:  I met him at a boat party in the Hamptons, and he was engaged, so—I was there for business and...

COSBY:  Not to Christie Brinkley, someone else, right?

COLE:  No, he was engaged to somebody else.  And I just met everybody on the boat, you know, here are So-and-So, So-and-So, and just stayed friends with him.  And he had known a couple clients of his that were in the record business and said, Oh, my client is So-and-So of Epic Records.  You know, I could maybe hook a meeting up for you guys.  Basically, I ended up started—I worked for him about five months later, after I met him, and he was already not engaged anymore.  He was single again.  So that‘s kind of how we started dating, was after I started working for him because I was in college, you know?

COSBY:  And did he say—we heard in the Diana Bianchi case, he said, Would you be interested?  Would you—what would—how would you feel to know I‘m attracted to you?  How did he come on to you?

COLE:  He didn‘t really come on like that.  It was just pretty fairly normal around the office.  And he just asked me to dinner, and I kept saying, I don‘t know.  I don‘t know.  You know, I‘m working for you and you‘re older.  And he was very charming.  He was very nice, so you know, I ended up...

COSBY:  Yes, what kind of a boyfriend was he?

COLE:  ... giving in.  He was a great boyfriend, you know?

COSBY:  How long did it last?

COLE:  He was a very important—a year.  He was a very important—one of my very serious boyfriends that I consider the few that I‘ve had in 10 years.  You know, he was one of them, so...

COSBY:  And where did you go?  Were you out in public?  Did you stay private?

COLE:  No, we were—he was single, so it was normal.  It was a normal relationship.  And we had a great relationship, so a lot—we played a lot of sports together and worked out, and it was just—it was cool.  It was—it ended up being—the age difference didn‘t matter because we ended up really just getting along at that time because we were single and not married.

COSBY:  How did your mother feel?  Because...

COLE:  Oh, my mother...


COSBY:  ... Diana Bianchi‘s case, her parents were livid when they found out.

COLE:  Yes, my parents were quite—but I mean, they considered me at 19 pretty much an adult, and I make my own decisions and I‘m in college, and they kind of let me do my thing and learn my own hard way whether that‘s going to work or not.  And they stayed out of it as much as they could.  Because they felt like if they pushed me into it more, that I would really run towards him more.  You know, if they said, You can‘t date him, you know, that—you know how kids do the opposite.  So they kind of laid back on it, so...

COSBY:  We‘re hearing some new reports that he was arrested for drugs.

COLE:  Right.

COSBY:  There was a mug shot even back then—cocaine, apparently, trying to sell it to an undercover cop...

COLE:  Yes.

COSBY:  ... at a rest stop.  Did you have any idea he had any drug problems?

COLE:  No.

COSBY:  Or anything in his background?

COLE:  I never saw any of that when I was with him.  I think that was way before me.

COSBY:  What‘s your reaction when you hear that?

COLE:  I kind of feel like that‘s just such a long time ago, and it really is sort of something that, to me, they‘re just pulling it up, you know, to, you know, paint this more of a picture of him.  And I just—I didn‘t even know he did drugs when I dated him, so I—you know.

COSBY:  But now...


COSBY:  ... then he got engaged to Christie Brinkley...

COLE:  Yes.

COSBY:  ... a month after you broke up with him.  Why did you break up with him?

COLE:  Well, I was doing an album in LA, and we were fighting a lot.  And we had been together a year, and my voice was getting, you know, raspy and—from yelling and stuff.  So I said, you know, I really need to go and do—focus on the album and sing and make this record, and I think it‘s just too stressful right now.

COSBY:  How surprised were you, a month later he gets engaged to Christie Brinkley?

COLE:  Yes.  It was a few months after we broke up that I—that I ended up—you know, that he ended up moving on and dating her.  So technically, he was—we were separated when they started, but...

COSBY:  What do you think people who say...

COLE:  ... I don‘t know.

COSBY:  ... this guy—Look, he‘s dating all these, you know, sort of borderline underaged girls...

COLE:  Right.

COSBY:  ... that he‘s a cad, that‘s he‘s a louse, that he‘s a bad guy?

COLE:  I think there‘s a lot of men that date younger girls, so I just sort of look at it like this is because he‘s married, this is a bigger—a really big thing.  And it‘s, you know, unfortunate for everybody in it.

COSBY:  Is he a bad guy?

COLE:  I don‘t think so.


COSBY:  ... you know, a dirt bag and cheating hubby, you know?

COLE:  You know, I think what he did was completely wrong, and I think that everybody involved—it‘s sad for everybody involved and the kids and there—you know, there‘s kids involved, so it‘s...

COSBY:  But is he a bad person?  Because people say, Look at these string of young girls.  What is he doing?

COLE:  Yes, I just don‘t think it was a good—it was a good move.  I think it was bad mistake, you know, on his part.

COSBY:  What does it say about his character?

COLE:  I don‘t know.  Like I said, I was as shocked as everybody else is, so...

COSBY:  Hold on one second because I want to bring with me now R.  Couri Hay.  He is the society columnist for “Hamptons” magazine.  And also with us, “New York Daily News” reporter Maureen Seaberg.

Maureen, first to you.  You know, this weekend at the Hamptons, of course, you know, a very happening place in the summer, other celebrities came out and spoke about this whole ordeal.  What did they say to you?

MAUREEN SEABERG, “NEW YORK DAILY NEWS”:  Oh, everyone is so sympathetic towards Christie.  She‘s their favorite person at polo.  Without her there, it just wasn‘t the same.  There were literally clouds in the sky.  The sun did not shine without her.

COSBY:  Yes, I understand, what—What did Brooke Shields say?  There‘s a quote.  It says, “We miss her.  I‘m going to reach out to her myself.  I‘ve known her since I was little girl.  She‘ll be back.”  And then one of the “Sopranos” stars says, “It‘s a shame—the shame of it is the kids, and they‘re going to suffer.”

Is everybody talking about this, Maureen?

SEABERG:  Absolutely.  It was the talk of every tent alongside the polo field.  And I couldn‘t find a single person who had anything negative to say about Christie at all.

COSBY:  What about Peter?  Does he have a sex addiction?  What is it with this guy?

SEABERG:  Well, you know, it‘s really interesting.  After polo, I had dinner with friends at Saracen‘s (ph), and a lot of people from town were willing to talk about what‘s been going on.  And one would think maybe it‘s a mid-life crisis.  He‘s throwing over a beautiful wife for a little girl that he can control or who helps make him feel youthful.  But as the details emerge, it seems as though he‘s hit on a number of other women who are parents of children in the same pool as his kids.

COSBY:  Yes, I...

SEABERG:  So I think your sex addict theory is on the mark.

COSBY:  OK, R. Couri Hay, what are you hearing about other women?


I‘ve heard stories about tensions in his marriage for the last year.  And now we‘re hearing more and more that there are more women that‘ll come forth, and these women are in the 18-to-20-year-old range.  I was also told it was almost like a revolving door at his architectural firm, lots of young interns, lots of fresh young faces all the time.  It seems that peter enjoyed the company of young women, and I‘m just waiting for another girl to come forward.  And I think it‘s going to be just a matter of time.

COSBY:  You know, let me ask Samantha.  It sounded—do you think there are a lot of other women out there, young women?

COLE:  Well, that‘s—that‘s—again, I was surprised about that one.  Again, Peter is very—like, family and kids and his wife—I mean, he loved her, and he was—I thought he was very happy with her, so...

COSBY:  What was it about young women?  What did he like about young women?

COLE:  I don‘t know.  I didn‘t expect that...

COSBY:  They looked up to him, versus...

COLE:  Maybe...

COSBY:  ... being in the shadow of Christie Brinkley all these years?

COLE:  You know, Peter was always very romantic and sort of old-fashioned, liked to take care of everything and liked—a really good man, dating-wise, like, he would cook (INAUDIBLE) eat a dinner, and he was very much, like, that whole vibe.  And he liked taking care of women he was with, so—I mean, that‘s all I know about him.  I don‘t know, you know, why he would do what he did, but—I really can‘t talk about him liking 19-year-olds because I don‘t know, you know, but...

COSBY:  And if he‘s watching, what do you want to say to him, real quick?

COLE:  Keep his head up because I think everybody in this needs to keep their head up and stay strong, you know?  I think everybody‘s going to get through it, you know?

COSBY:  R. Couri Hay, real quick.

HAY:  Well, I...

COSBY:  How‘s Christie Brinkley (INAUDIBLE)

HAY:  I think that his ego was shattered.  I think his masculinity was cut off at the waist.  And I think that he needed reinforcement that he was still attractive and the man because I think he was always in the shadow of Christie Brinkley.  If you look at these old pictures, he was a brunette.  As he entered into the Christie Brinkley orbit, he became blond.

COSBY:  All right, interesting development, and obviously started to like young women, beautiful ones like Samantha here.  All of you, thank you very much.

And coming up, Oprah on the record.


OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST:  All women who have really close girlfriends understand what my relationship with Gayle is.


COSBY:  She and her man talk to the TV show “Extra.”  The latest on her fight to make sure we all know she loves men.

But next: She came in second on “American Idol” but is nowhere to be found.  Is she snubbing the “Idol” tour?  Katharine McPhee details coming up tonight.


COSBY:  Well, send out the search party, everybody, because “American Idol” runner-up Katharine McPhee has gone missing.  Well, sort of.  McPhee has missed all 16 “American Idol” tour dates so far, since the tour started on July 5.  And there are lot of theories floating around about why she has been a no-show.

So is she turning her back on “Idol”?  Here‘s Bex Schwartz.  She‘s pop culture commentator on VH-1.  Also Jill Dobson from “Star” magazine and Jessica Sierra, a former “American Idol” contestant from season four.

Bex, let me start with you.  Katharine told fans she would never miss “Idol” tour dates in order to work on her individual career.  Do you buy this, Bex?

BEX SCHWARTZ, VH-1 COMMENTATOR:  I don‘t know.  Where is she?  The tour has been on for so long, and she‘s just not showing up.  You know, she‘s claiming that, like, her management‘s, you know, maximizing her down time.  You know, it‘s, like, how bad is this case of bronchitis?  It‘s the world‘s worst case of ever!

COSBY:  You know, so Jessica, what do you buy—what is her strategy?

JESSICA SIERRA, FORMER “AMERICAN IDOL” CONTESTANT:  You know what?  I don‘t know.  I don‘t know.  It‘s actually interesting to hear her excuses.  I mean, I‘ve had bronchitis before, it‘s never lasted that for that long.  And it‘s obviously not too bad because she‘s out there, you know, doing other shows and stuff.  So I don‘t know.

COSBY:  Is it, you know, Jessica, conveniently sort of scheduled sickness?

SIERRA:  Kind of—you know, I can‘t say, but it kind of sounds like it could be.

COSBY:  You know, Jill, what do you think?  I mean, it seems like a long time since she‘s been out.  This seems awfully fishy, don‘t you think?

JILL DOBSON, “STAR” MAGAZINE:  Well, it certainly has been a long time that she‘s been out, and I‘m sure her fans are very disappointed that they haven‘t seen her on the tour.  However, at “Star” magazine, we‘ve looked into it, and we think it looks like she has this bad case of bronchitis and laryngitis because she‘s trying to promote herself, she‘s out there doing photo shoots for magazines, where she doesn‘t have to use her voice...

COSBY:  But Jill, do you believe her?  Do you believe her?  I mean, she can say that, but do you believe her?

DOBSON:  I think so.  I really think we believe her on this one.  We‘ve looked into it.  We‘ve talked to sources.  And she missed an appearance guest-hosting on “The View.”  You wouldn‘t skip that if you were looking to promote your career.  So I think that she‘s trying to get well, trying to get healthy.  And it‘s going to disappoint her fans even more if she sings terribly when she goes on this tour, and she knows that.

COSBY:  But—but Bex, what about just showing up on stage?  Even if you—you know, say you can‘t speak.  Say you‘re having these problems.  Wave to the fans.  Do something.  Doesn‘t she owe something to “American Idol,” Bex?

SCHWARTZ:  I do think a lot of people have bought tickets for this show just to go see McPhee.  You know, McFever (ph) had a lot of McFans.  I mean, just go and...


COSBY:  ... think McPhee let them down?  What do you think?  Come on, Bex.

SCHWARTZ:  I don‘t know.  Maybe she shot herself in the McFoot, like claiming that now she‘s producing this off-Broadway show, and it‘s, like, If you‘re that sick, what are you doing being a producer?

COSBY:  OK, so Jessica, they‘ve got this White House thing.  First time the “American Idols” have been invited to meet with President Bush at the White House on Friday.  If she shows up, Jessica, doesn‘t that look bad and sort of—doesn‘t that show that she‘s been snubbing the tour?

SIERRA:  You know what?  I think that‘s going to look really bad, if she does show up because if she can show up to meet the president, she can absolutely be there to, you know, at least make an appearance in front of her fans and tell them, you know, how much she appreciates them, although she can‘t sing.

COSBY:  You know, what about the, you know, constraints?  Because Jessica, there is a lot of pressure.  You‘ve been there.

SIERRA:  Absolutely.

COSBY:  How tough is it?  You know, they sign this contract that is basically—they‘re basically, you know, locked solid to “American Idol” for a long time.  Is that restrictive?  Is it so restrictive, you got to find some way out of it?

SIERRA:  You know what?  I mean, it‘s no mystery that there‘s been, I mean, arguments and people trying to get out of the contract with 19 (ph) management throughout the years.  And they are restrictive.  I mean, they‘re very restrictive.  I mean, but you go into that signing the contract knowing what you‘re getting yourself into.  So I mean, if you don‘t want to do it, don‘t sign the contract.

COSBY:  You know, Jill, what are people on the tour—what are the other—I‘ve talked to a lot of the “American Idol” contestants, especially in the last few weeks.  What are they saying about what‘s going on really behind the scenes?  What are they saying?

DOBSON:  Insiders behind the scenes are certainly disappointed in Katharine and have a lot of skepticism about how sick she is or isn‘t.  We believe that she may have actually this case of bronchitis and laryngitis.  However, Jessica made a great point.  She should show up at the concert, wave at the fans and have someone else explain that...

SIERRA:  Absolutely.

DOBSON:  ... she just can‘t use her voice until she‘s healthy again.

COSBY:  Yes, and you know, the reviews have been pretty strong

(INAUDIBLE) I mean, they‘re saying her absence—this is one of the ones -

I think it‘s “Hartford Courant” said it was not as much of a disaster as it would have been had she won, but it still diminished the show.  As we‘re looking at here one of the critics—hasn‘t that hurt “Idol”?  I mean, isn‘t that a slap in the face, Bex, to “Idol”?

SCHWARTZ:  I mean, don‘t bite the hand that feeds you, right?  If you‘ve come out as, like, you‘re the almost “American Idol,” you should kind of commit to “American Idol.”  I think it‘s kind of snotty.

COSBY:  All right, guys.  That‘s going to have to be the last word. 

Thank you.

Still to come, speculation about Oprah‘s sexuality.  Now Oprah and her man go in front of cameras about those nagging rumors.  Find out what Oprah has to say.

And he was going for the world record but fell a few feet short. 

You‘ll see what happened in tonight‘s “must see TV.”  There‘s part of it.


COSBY:  Well, it is time for tonight‘s “must see SC (ph),” Some video you‘ve got to see.  First up, to Ohio for an incredible rescue caught on tape.  A 79-year-old woman and her son found themselves trapped in almost six feet of flood water on Saturday and were saved by some brave strangers who jumped in to the rescue.  The woman says she saw orange cones blocking the road but thought she could get by.  Both she and her son are doing OK tonight.

Next up, to Oklahoma, where this attempt at a world record didn‘t quite go as planned.  Daredevil Trigger Gum (ph) was trying to set a new record by jumping his motorcycle 315 feet, but Gum only managed to make it 70 feet before he lost control of his bike and went crashing into the dirt ramp below.  Gum walked away from the nasty crash and is resting tonight in the hospital.

And finally, to Newberg (ph), Germany, where a boat race went to the pigs, literally.  Hundreds turned out for the trough races down the Danube River.  The annual event features racing teams made from pig troughs.  Forty-two teams competed, including a few Vikings, but only one could take home the proud title of Bavarian Pig Trough (INAUDIBLE) What an honor.

And still to come: Where is Suri Cruise?  Tonight, a new theory about why she‘s being kept from the public for three long months.  The Church of Scientology is responsible.  Find out.

But first, Oprah is at it again, saying out there again that she and her gal pal, Gayle, are just friends, that‘s it.  Plus, now her man, Stedman, is going on the record, as well.  Why are they talking so much about a story they say they just hope will go away?  Find out when we come back.



COSBY:  So where is Suri Cruise?  More than three months after she was born, Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes‘ little girl has still not been seen.  Tonight, a new theory about why we have not seen Baby Cruise yet. 

Welcome back, everybody.  I‘m Rita Cosby in for Joe, who‘s taking a few nights off. 

But first, Oprah speaks out about rumors that she is gay and has a relationship with her best friend and business associate Gayle King.  While attending a Hollywood benefit on Saturday, Oprah stopped and told “Extra” TV why she decided to address the rumors. 


OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST:  It‘s a question that comes up all the time because Gayle and I are such good friends.  And when we were doing the interview, it came up.  And so that‘s why we addressed it.  All women who have really close girlfriends understand what my relationship with Gayle is. 


COSBY:  Oprah‘s boyfriend, Steadman, normally not seen with Oprah in public, was also there, and he was asked why the rumors don‘t bother him. 


STEADMAN GRAHAM, OPRAH‘S BOYFRIEND:  ... and Gayle has been a good friend of mine and a good friend of hers for a long time.  So, you know, we‘re on the inside, not on the outside. 


COSBY:  And still with us, Bex Schwartz from VH-1 and Jill Dobson from “Star” magazine.  And with us on the phone, my pal, celebrity attorney Deb Opri. 

Bex, you know, why is Oprah making such a big deal of this? 

SCHWARTZ:  I don‘t know.  What does it matter?  If you‘re gay.  If you‘re straight, you‘re straight.  Who outs themselves as being a heterosexual?

COSBY:  So what do you think she is, Bex?  What do you make from all of this? 

SCHWARTZ:  I think maybe she‘s actually in love with Gayle but won‘t allow herself to feel those feelings, and she just needs to—well, how about this?  Oprah, we‘ll drink some tequila.  We‘ll play spin the bottle.  We‘ll see what happens. 

COSBY:  Now, also there‘s this hidden thing, though—Jill, is there a plan here maybe to elevate Gayle even more?  There‘s word she‘s trying out for the seat on “The View,” the Star Jones spot. 

DOBSON:  That‘s right.  We believe that Gayle is in the running for that job on “The View,” and so... 

COSBY:  So could all this be sort of, you know, a ploy to sort of boost her up even more?  I mean, she‘s got a lot of visibility.  I like Gayle, great gal.  But is it a possibility to put her in the spotlight? 

DOBSON:  I think the idea of the friendship issue was to put Gayle in the spotlight.  And during that issue, they addressed whether they were gay or not.  And then it‘s just blown up.  I think celebrities have a hard time getting a beat on what the water-cooler talk is across America, but...

COSBY:  But even Oprah, who‘s so savvy, Jill?  What do you make of the fact that here‘s this—you know, probably one of the smartest women out there, that she seems to have a hard time figuring out how to play this?

DOBSON:  Yes, she seems to think that we‘re more interested in her sexuality than we really are.  I haven‘t heard very many people speculating about Oprah in the past few months, but all of a sudden Oprah wants to address it, just in case we‘re wondering.  But I think it‘s getting Gayle‘s name out there, and it might help her become more of a public figure and have a better shot at that seat on “The View.” 

COSBY:  And, you know, what do you think is behind this, Deb Opri? 

DEBRA OPRI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY:  You know, Rita, first of all, I respectfully disagree with both of your guests.  This is one of those situations where Oprah and Gayle are best friends.  Gayle has come out in terms of star power, and I don‘t believe that Oprah could avoid addressing this issue. 

I think Oprah rightfully addressed it.  I think Graham may make an appearance with her, and I think they‘ll put it to bed this past weekend.  And hopefully, this will be the end of it. 

It‘s not fair.  And, you know, being out there and seeing firsthand that women can have close relationships without this kind of aura surrounding them, I just think it‘s unfortunate that it gets to the level, when two women are really dear, close friends, they are seen as lovers rather than as sisters.  And that‘s the unfortunate thing.  But I think Oprah and Steadman properly addressed it, and I think the last person you‘ll hear on the topic is Gayle, and I think it will be with a laugh and a shrug. 

COSBY:  Jill, do you think that it‘s going to be over with?  I mean, she is, you know, the most popular sort of woman out there.  This is her best pal, highly visible.  I don‘t think it‘s going away.  Do you, Jill Dobson?

DOBSON:  No, I don‘t think so.  I think everyone is interested in everything to do with Oprah.  On this one, I just think it‘s funny Oprah said in her magazine, “There isn‘t a definition for the type of friendship that Gayle and I have.”  And it‘s just funny.  Everyone has a best friend, but when it‘s Oprah, we all tend to think it‘s bigger and better and more important and fascinating, so Oprah‘s addressing it.

COSBY:  But let me bring in Bex, because Bex, one of the things is, she is all about revelations, sort of exposing your inner self.  So, you know, what do you make of that in correlation with this? 

SCHWARTZ:  Well, I guess I just don‘t understand why we‘re still talking about this.  I mean, I agree with the woman on the phone who says that, you know, we should kind of back off and it‘s not an issue.  So why does she have to come out and say that she‘s not gay? 


OPRI:  ... women have to address it. 

COSBY:  Deb, don‘t you think it creates something bigger than it is, if it‘s not the truth? 

OPRI:  No, I‘ve had those confrontations where you have to address it and, unfortunately, it‘s just something where you have to answer the question.  You have to make your statement and let people know where you stand. 

I think Steadman is the individual here who may, in fact, be saying, you know, why?  Why did we have to get to this point?  Oprah will say “Hey, I‘m a target,” and Gayle will say, “Hey, it‘s giving me good press.”  But I don‘t think this is going to last very long, because the question has been asked, and the question has been answered. 

COSBY:  You know, Bex, Debra brought up a good point.  Steadman Graham, never seen with Oprah, suddenly goes out with her Saturday night.  What do you make of the timing, Bex? 

SCHWARTZ:  Right, never seen until now?  All of a sudden she has to go on record and say she‘s not gay, and then she shows up with her boyfriend on her arm, why?  What does it matter if we possibly think that she‘s gay?  She‘s the most powerful woman in the world.  I think people should be allowed to put whatever they want to put on here.

OPRI:  But that‘s a misnomer.  He is seen with her.  He‘s just a very private individual.  And I don‘t think it‘s fair to say he‘s never seen with her before.  He‘s always seen with her, but he has a life and a career, and he‘s a busy man, too, I would hope.

COSBY:  Jill, final thoughts on Steadman being there?


DOBSON:  My final thought on this entire thing is that it‘s become huge because Oprah addressed it.  I think if she and Steadman had just gone on being a private couple as they were, yes, there‘d be some rumors, but the general public would think that they were a couple.  Now, she‘s opened it up and everyone‘s like, “What?  Oprah gay?  What?”  So I think it‘s become an even bigger topic.  It‘s just snowballing, and so I don‘t think it will go away. 

COSBY:  That‘s going to have to be the last word.  Ladies, thank you very much. 

Well, from Oprah to Heidi Klum, that is.  The supermodel is doing double duty these days, still a fixture on the runway, but also the host of Bravo TV‘s hit show “Project Runway.”  She and I talked about everything from modeling to her secret junk-food addiction. 


COSBY:  Heidi Klum, you look great.  What is the best thing about being the supermodel?  And what‘s the worst thing?  And there‘s a rumor that you like Big Macs. 

HEIDI KLUM, MODEL:  I do.  That rumor is right.  I love Big Macs.  I love the fries.  I love everything.  I love the barbecue sauce, but let‘s not talk about that. 

What is great about being a model is that I get to wear all of the great clothes, you know, from, you know, all the different, great designers that are out there, you know, not only in America, overseas.  I mean, from everywhere you get to wear, you know, beautiful, beautiful things, and I get to travel. 

And, you know, that I can kind of like have a different schedule in my life.  And that is for me good.  That‘s what allows me to have, you know, the big family that I always dreamed of.  So, you know, I don‘t have the 9:00 to 5:00 job.  I can, you know, work very hard, but then I can have a week off, and, you know, travel, and do different things. 

COSBY:  You‘re always under the microscope.  The paparazzi is following you.  How are you going to juggle—I know you have another baby on the way with your wonderful husband, Seal, who is also in the limelight.  How do you deal with the paparazzi? 

KLUM:  You know, you just deal with it.  After a while, you know, you kind of get used to it in a way.  In the beginning, it‘s all like, “Oh, wow, look, somebody is taking my picture,” and it‘s all exciting.  And after a while, it becomes normal, I have to say.  You know, it‘s just basically that dry. 

You know, you see someone hiding behind the car, and then you see two people hiding behind the car, and you just kind of live your life knowing that that happens every once in a while.  It doesn‘t happen all the time, and there‘s places where, you know, where no one would come, and there‘s places where you know that the paparazzi goes to.  So you can kind of, you know, can get by if you want to.  But you get used to it. 

COSBY:  You know, there‘s been a lot of baby news lately, Brad and Angelina.  What are you planning on doing when your baby is born?  Are you going to release the pictures publicly?  Have you thought about maybe giving them to charity like they did? 

KLUM:  Oh, we haven‘t really thought about that yet.  We‘re in the beginning.  And I don‘t know.  You can‘t think about all these things already.  I don‘t know.  You know, we don‘t even know what we‘re going to have.  You know, so we‘re not thinking about what is going happen to pictures. 

COSBY:  I understand that you have customize jeans for every month of your pregnancy.  You really thought this one through, huh? 

KLUM:  You really read all the gossip newspapers, it seems to me.

COSBY:  Is that true?

KLUM:  You should not believe everything you read.  Not for every month. You know, I mean, there are certain jeans that I really, really love, and, you know, I have a ton of jeans.  As I told you before, I get great perks.  You know, people send me amazing things, and that is, you know, what‘s great being in public and, you know, being on a show.  People send you their clothes, and they want to you wear them. 

And, yes, I‘ve altered a few things, but I do not have for every month a certain pair of jeans.  I don‘t.  You shouldn‘t believe everything you read. 

COSBY:  Why do you think “Project Runway” is so successful? 

KLUM:  I think people really love watching people that are talented, that are innovative, that can do things with their hands, that can, you know, make something out of nothing in a short amount of time with hardly any money.  You know, I give them each week a very, very hard challenge.  You know, we‘re looking for a designer, so every time it‘s about, you know, making a great outfit.  Sometimes I give them $100 one day to put it all together and sometimes very unique materials, too. 

COSBY:  Heidi Klum, thanks so much.  We love the show, and we love you.  And thank you for being with us. 

KLUM:  Thank you.  Thank you so much. 


COSBY:  Heidi Klum, lots of fun.  Well, coming up next, waiting for that first Suri snapshot.  A new theory out there to why Tom and Katie are keeping their baby out of the spotlight.  Could it all be linked to Scientology?  Coming up.


COSBY:  Well, they had a very public courtship in history, but Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes have kept Baby Suri behind closed doors.  We‘re at 97 days and counting with no substantial and very public Suri sightings. 

We know she spent part of the month at Tom‘s Telluride estate, and this week “Star” magazine says Tom and Katie are keeping the baby inside for—get this—because Scientology says she should not be vaccinated.  How wacky is all of this? 

For more details, let‘s go to “Star” magazine‘s Jill Dobson and also, from “OK” magazine, Katie Caperton. 

Jill, what is this about not vaccinating in Scientology, why Baby Suri hasn‘t been out? 

DOBSON:  That‘s right.  And we interviewed a former member of the Church of Scientology, and he tells us Scientologist doctors tend to advise against immunizing kids.  And he says anything that Scientology doctors say is taken as gospel by the members of the church.  So because of that, he says Tom and Katie may not have immunized the baby, may have followed that advice, and may be keeping the baby indoors to keep her away from germs while she builds up natural immunity. 

COSBY:  Now, we did try to get some reaction from the Church of Scientology.  We tried to get any comment we could.  They did not want to go on the record.  They did say that they wouldn‘t deny reports the Scientology recommends not immunizing. 

Do we know, Jill, if there‘s any medical issues with the baby, that this could be harmful? 

DOBSON:  We believe that the baby is a healthy baby.  I mean, some of the reports out there that no one has seen her because she‘s ill, we don‘t think that‘s the problem, because you would have seen them going to and from the hospital, if they had an unfortunate illness with their baby.

We think she‘s perfectly healthy, but they‘re keeping her home, keeping her away from germs, if they‘re following this Scientology mandate that you don‘t immunize your child. 

COSBY:  You know, now, Katie, let me show you this, because we do know

there is a couple of people who have seen this baby.  People who have seen

it, Leah Remini.  She‘s an actor.  Of course, we‘ve heard about—actress

we‘ve heard about her.

Also, Frank Marshall and Kathleen Kennedy, these are sort of two big-name producers.  “War of the Worlds,” of course, is the one that she produced.  Why do you believe we haven‘t seen Suri after all of these days, Katie? 

KATIE CAPERTON, “OK!” MAGAZINE:  Well, sure.  It‘s actually—it‘s not an issue of Scientology.  It‘s a matter that, if they were to go outside and grab the paper or grab a cup of coffee, it would be a media frenzy.  This is nothing new for Tom.  You didn‘t see pictures of his first two kids, Isabel and Connor, for, you know, until they were 1 and 3 years old, respectively. 

COSBY:  And, in fact, in fact, let me put that up, because we know that in the past they‘ve kept a low profile.  His two older kids from his marriage with Nicole Kidman, they weren‘t photographed—we were looking it up -- 1996, that‘s when Connor was 1, Isabella was 3. 

Is it also possible, Katie, that they‘ve been out there, but we just haven‘t seen them, maybe disguised or the parents have been disguised? 

CAPERTON:  I mean, there is not a celebrity around who‘s more stealth in getting around photographers than Tom Cruise.  They‘ve gone from Los Angeles, to Telluride, back to Los Angeles.  There‘s no pictures of them getting off of a plane or doing anything.  He‘s been a celebrity for a while, and he knows how to play ball. 

COSBY:  So let me bring in Dr. Eric Braverman.  He‘s the director of PATH Medical Center.  He‘s also the author of “The Edge Effect.”

Dr. Braverman, let me just ask you about this theory, the Scientology theory.  How harmful is that to the child? 

DR. ERIC BRAVERMAN, PATH MEDICAL:  Well, it can be very harmful. 

COSBY:  No vaccinations, right?  What does that do?

BRAVERMAN:  Right.  You put them vulnerable to infections of the lungs, diarrhea, high fever.  And there‘s a lot of great vaccines.  It‘s almost a minimum medical right of passage today. 

COSBY:  Have you heard of this before, for Scientology or other reasons? 

BRAVERMAN:  No, I have seen literally hundreds, if not thousands, of patients who do this, and sometimes they actually will cover their face with a mask to avoid germs around the baby.  They won‘t put a baby into daycare. 

Many people become germ phobic.  They start alcohol-wiping the floors.  So you see a lot of individuals with overreaction.  Most parents don‘t do it for good reasons, because they‘re afraid of fever, chills, reactions.  Sometimes they just remove the pertussis vaccine, because they have reactions.

Many times they‘re afraid of autism, which will be more and more scientifically studied, and it will probably be that children that have autism didn‘t get it from the vaccine, but they already have developmental delays.  That‘s the biggest concern.

COSBY:  Yes, what a wacky thing!

You know, Jill, the other concern I‘m sure the parents have—and this could be a possibility as to why, not the Scientology—but what about security concerns?  We‘re hearing that Katie Holmes had some issues when she was on “Dawson‘s Creek,” some stalkers? 

DOBSON:  That‘s right.  That‘s right.  She had not one, but two stalkers while she was on the set of “Dawson‘s Creek,” one of whom called her father in Toledo, Ohio, more than 160 times asking for Katie‘s hand in marriage.

COSBY:  One hundred and sixty times?

DOBSON:  Yes, to propose.  And, of course, they had to call the authorities in both cases and get the police involved.  So that‘s very scary for Katie.  And, of course, she had to protect herself.  She‘s much more famous today than when she was on “Dawson‘s Creek,” and she‘s got to protect her baby.  And you can certainly understand why she‘d want to stay away for that.

COSBY:  And everybody is asking about this baby.  In fact, I want to show a little clip.  This is when Tom Cruise was on Ellen DeGeneres.  This is right after the baby was born.  Of course, everybody is asking—and this was sort of where he joked about what the baby looked like.  Let‘s play that.


ELLEN DEGENERES, HOST, “THE ELLEN DEGENERES SHOW”:  There is a bunch of babies here.  Which one does she—this is not Suri, but which one does it look most like?


TOM CRUISE, ACTOR:  Let me see...

DEGENERES:  With this?

CRUISE:  Let me see. 

DEGENERES:  That one has side burns. 


COSBY:  And we also—this is what, you know, “Star” magazine—you know, they sort of put in that first look of what they think a Suri snapshot would look like.  This is their creation, and it‘s Katie‘s button nose, Tom‘s smile.  Jill Dobson, what do you think?

DOBSON:  Well, it also has Katie‘s up-do, which I think is very important.  It‘s ready for the red carpet. 

COSBY:  Of course.  You know, what do you think, Jill? 

DOBSON:  I think that it will be a beautiful baby, no matter what. 

And I‘m sure we can expect lots of dark hair from Tom‘s drawing and from looking at both of the parents.  Leah Remini, who‘s seen the baby, says it‘s a beautiful baby, looks like both Tom and Katie.  And we‘re all very excited to see that first photo. 

COSBY:  You know, Katie, is it possible that this is all like sort of a big publicity lead-up?  You know, after all of the hype after Baby Shiloh that took place, of course, with Angelina and Brad, all of this hype, is this a big publicity stunt?

CAPERTON:  Well, I don‘t think Tom needs any more publicity.  I think he‘s OK.

COSBY:  Hey, it doesn‘t hurt.  It never hurts.  Come on.

CAPERTON:  Exactly.  Well, “OK” magazine‘s heard that there might be a wedding coming up soon.  Tom said that he‘s looking forward to a late summer, early fall wedding, so Suri might make her debut sooner rather than later. 

COSBY:  What do you think here?  What‘s your prediction, in terms of when you think we will see this baby?  Let me start with you, Jill.  How soon until we see the baby? 

DOBSON:  Oh, I think that we might have to wait about another month. 

I think Tom is going to get the speculation going up more.  We had an...


COSBY:  Do you believe it‘s publicity?  Do you believe it‘s a publicity stunt? 

DOBSON:  Yes...

COSBY:  You do?

DOBSON:  ... we actually had an odds-maker look at where Suri might show up first.  And he put 3-1 odds on...

COSBY:  Yes, what are the odds?

DOBSON:  ... a magazine cover.

COSBY:  What are the odds?

DOBSON:  The odds are 3-1 that she‘ll first show up on a magazine cover.  The photo will be sold for $5 million, and money will go to charity.  So the second place was that the baby will show up on Oprah.  So we‘ll have to see if our odds-maker was correct.

COSBY:  Katie, if you were an odds-maker, what would you bet, Katie? 

CAPERTON:  I would say in a couple of months.  I would bet when they get married you‘ll see the first pictures of Suri.

COSBY:  Are they going to sell the pictures, just like Shiloh?

CAPERTON:  Who knows?  You never know. 

COSBY:  All right.  Both of you, thank you very much.  And, Dr.

Braverman, thank you for being with us.  We appreciate it. 

Everyone, when we come back, “Joe‘s Justice.”  A frightening story during the summertime travel season.  Police hunting for a sniper.  Targeting drivers, the very latest live.  That‘s coming up, some developments coming into us.


COSBY:  Well, it‘s time for tonight‘s “Joe‘s Justice,” where we‘re asking for your help in solving some unsolved crimes.  Tonight, Indiana police are on the hunt for a highway sniper who struck four times on Sunday.  The shots rang out in the span of about two hours early Sunday morning, killing a 40-year-old man and injuring one other. 

Indiana police are asking people to check their cars tonight for any bullet holes that may be used as evidence in this investigation.  And late tonight, Indiana state police held a press conference warning that more attacks could be coming. 


SGT. DAVE BURSTEN, INDIANA STATE POLICE:  We believe additional shootings may occur in the future.  We base this on information developed, one with a reference generalized to northeast Indiana, and a second one that is focused to southern Indiana.  We have notified agencies in those geographical locations. 


COSBY:  And here with the very latest is WTHR reporter Alex Sanz and also former West Virginia state trooper, Ric Robinson.

Alex, first to you, what are they saying?  What do they know?  Who may be responsible for this? 

ALEX SANZ, WTHR-TV REPORTER:  Well, that is the big question a lot of people here in Indiana are really trying to get answers.  You heard from the Indiana state police just a couple of seconds ago.  They really don‘t know.  And that is what is really troubling for them. 

The latest development tonight, of course, was that now two more areas of Indiana, northeast Indiana and then southern Indiana, are again on alert for what could be more sniper attacks in the coming days.  That was in part based on some tips that came into the state police task force hotline which was established last night. 

Fifty tips came in.  Whatever somebody said during one of those phone calls was enough to lead them to believe there could be more attacks and, hence, the warning that came out later on tonight. 

But, Rita, that is the question:  Who is this person?  Will they strike again?  Why are they doing this?  As you can imagine, when something like this happens, there really are more questions than answers. 

COSBY:  Absolutely.  You know, Ric, you know these roads.  Do you believe it is a lone shooter?  And as you just from Alex, they‘ve moved to a whole other location in the state?  Lone shooter or team, some people working together? 

RIC ROBINSON, FORMER STATE TROOPER:  Well, I don‘t know that I could say one way or the other, but I‘m pretty confident it‘s the same person or persons in both locations.  Most law enforcement officers just don‘t believe in coincidences, so you can bet that the task force with the Indiana state police and now the FBI and others are looking at a multitude of things.

They‘re doing the driving to every single gas station, every home that may have a video camera sitting there looking at video...

COSBY:  Yes, in fact, we‘re going to put a map—Ric, I‘m just going to interrupt you, because I want to put the map.  There it is.  Route 65, you know this road.

ROBINSON:  Oh, I‘ve been through there.

COSBY:  That‘s a big area, right?

ROBINSON:  Rita, my daughter went through there just today, as a matter of fact, on her way to Carlinville, Illinois, where she lives.  You can go to Springfield.  You can go to St. Louis.  You can take I-65 from Chicago all the way to Florida. 

COSBY:  So this a main artery?  This is a main road.


ROBINSON:  Yes, that‘s precisely right.  But you can bet that these officers are not just looking at those roads.  You got I-70 that goes all the way over to Wheeling, almost into Pittsburgh.  So they‘re looking there, as well.

Indiana, Illinois, and Columbus they‘ve already gotten—I know, with the Columbus task force that looked at the snipers there.  So what they‘re trying to do is put this together.  And the interesting thing is, it may not be some gun nut.  It may not be somebody who was set off because had a fight with his wife or got caught off.

COSBY:  Yes, how do you put it together though, Ric?  I mean, this is like a needle in a haystack.  You‘ve got the whole state now involved. 

ROBINSON:  There‘s a good possibility that it‘s somebody, just like the whack jobs that will shoot a doctor who perhaps performs abortions, because they somehow justify it that in their mind.  There‘s campaigns going on in Indiana—you know driving through there, because the billboards are everywhere.  There‘s GunsSaveLife.com, and there‘s GuyswithGuns.com.  So it may be somebody who‘s actually anti-gun who‘s trying to make some kind of a statement, and that‘s why... 

COSBY:  And Ric, regardless, you know, I mean, people out there are just freaked.  Let me play—this is one of the family members of one of the victims.  Everybody is so on edge about this.  Let‘s play what they had to say a little bit ago.


AMBER HARTL, SNIPER VICTIM‘S WIFE:  You hear with it, and you‘re like, “There‘s no way that would ever happen to anybody I know.”  And then when it happens to your own family, it‘s so hard to believe.  Even now, it doesn‘t feel real. 


COSBY:  And, Alex, two seconds, what are they telling people, real quick?

SANZ:  Be on alert.  Be vigilant.  Keep your eyes open, especially on interstates, on overpasses.  No one knows where this person is hiding.  It could be an overpass.  It could be in cornfields.  Really don‘t know.  So the best thing people can do is just keep their eyes open, carry on with life as usual as much as you can, but of course keep an eye out and always call the police. 

COSBY:  All right.  And, both of you, thank you very much.

And that does it for me tonight, everybody.  We hope that you have a good time, a good night tonight.  And we hope you have a big week ahead on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.  You‘ve got to stick with us.  We‘ve got a lot more.  Pete Rose is going to be on, talking about the Barry Bonds scandal.  Stick with us, everybody.



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