Guests: Contessa Brewer, Mark Williams, Nicole DeBorde, Clint Van Zandt, Pat Buchanan,
Chrystia Freeland, Roy Sekoff, A.B. Stoddard, Bill Press>
DAN ABRAMS, HOST: Tonight on VERDICT: Obama slipping in a new NBC News
Poll out just hours ago, now leading John McCain by just three points.
But could a bold, unexpected V.P. pick give him a big boost? No,
not Evan Bayh, Tim Kaine or even Joe Biden.
What about Hillary Clinton? Yes, the Hillary Clinton who does
better against McCain in that new NBC Poll than Obama.
Pat Buchanan; the "Financial Times`" Chrystia Freeland; and the
"Huffington Post`s" Roy Sekoff are us with.
And speaking of women voters, the Republicans are out with their
list of convention speakers headlined by pro-choice Rudy Giuliani and by
McCain`s new best friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN, (I/D) CONNECTICUT: I`m supporting John McCain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Yes, the same Joe Lieberman who said this at the 2000 DNC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIEBERMAN: I`m glad that the GOP has changed their rhetoric, but,
you know what -- I wish they`d also change their policies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Could a registered Democrat actually be McCain`s V.P.
Plus, the "National Enquirer" playing rough with John Edwards, out
with new alleged details about his affair, and threatening more unless he
admits he fathered Rielle Hunter`s baby.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN EDWARDS, FORMER SENATOR: I was lost. And I am responsible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: As Gary Hart learns, fighting in D.C. is one thing,
fighting the "Enquirer" is something very different.
And, he`s America`s golden boy, but not everyone has a crush on
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANDA BEARD, OLYMPIC GOLD WINNER: I am not dating Michael Phelps.
No, I have really good taste.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Gold medal winner and "Playboy" pinup, Amanda Beard is in
tonight`s Olympics` Winners and Losers.
Plus, Paris Hilton is looking for a new bestfriend and she wants
help finding one.
And, John Mayer not only broke up with Jennifer Aniston and then
dissed her publicly, but he reportedly did it via text message. It may be
even worse than we thought?
VERDICT starts now.
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show.
With all eyes on Barack Obama and who he`ll pick as his running
mate, with all the talk of Joe Biden, Tim Kaine, Evan Bayh, there`s one big
name still missing from the conversation -- Hillary Clinton. Yes, Hillary
A brand new NBC News/"Wall Street Journal" Poll out tonight shows
Obama`s lead slipping to three points over McCain. He`s now up 45 to 42.
Obama was leading by six in July. But look at a hypothetical match up
between Hillary Clinton and McCain. She`s up by six.
Tomorrow, Clinton is set to campaign for Obama across Florida,
we`re getting reports today that her own brother, along with some
Pennsylvania Democrats have already met with the McCain campaign. Wouldn`t
Obama picking Hillary help bring unhappy Clintonites aboard? And if so,
shouldn`t he pick her as his running mate?
Joining me now Pat Buchanan, MSNBC analyst and a former
presidential candidate; Chrystia Freeland, U.S. managing editor for the
"Financial Times"; and Roy Sekoff, the founding editor of the "Huffington
All right, Pat, look, it is almost heresy to discuss this among
many Obama supporters, but, is it to the point now, do you think where
Obama has to reevaluate, even if he wasn`t seriously thinking about her and
say, "You know what, maybe I`ve got it suck it up and think about Hillary
Clinton really seriously"?
PAT BUCHANAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I think he really does.
The luster is clearly off Obama now. He is slipping in every poll. Some
polls show him behind. The Republicans are on the offensive in being
And I think he`s got to take a look at Hillary because she`s the
only one that gives real excitement and drama and really brings something
to a ticket -- 18 million voters, the women would be enthusiastic, it would
help in Arkansas, it would help in Michigan, it would help in Pennsylvania.
I don`t think he ought to rule it out, but my guess is, he`s already
CHRYSTIA FREELAND, FINANCIAL TIMES: Yes, actually, I agree with
Pat. I think that choosing Hillary Clinton is very painful for Obama, but
it could be the pragmatic choice. And one thing that people say about
Barack Obama is, he`s not an emotional decision-maker and he is able to
take decisions which are personally painful for him, but are politically
the right ones.
I would also add to what Pat said that what Hillary brings, oddly
enough, is somewhat she`s machismo to the ticket. And what Obama I think
needs right now is someone who is willing to go out there and fight McCain.
And Hillary is the person who could do that.
ABRAMS: All right. Roy, let me read you this. It`s part of the
same poll, all right? Of the Clinton voters, right, how many of them
support Obama? Fifty-two percent support Obama, 21 percent support McCain,
27 percent undecided or someone else. Look, that`s almost half unwilling
to say at this point that they would support Barack Obama.
ROY SEKOFF, HUFFINGTON POST: You know, I mean, Dan, you know, I
spent a lot of time on this show making the case why Hillary Clinton is the
SEKOFF: But as I see the list of finalists, I kind of feel like
Churchill did about democracy, you know, she`s the worst choice except for
all the other ones. I mean, Evan Bayh. I mean, Hillary is bad on Iraq but
Evan Bayh was the co-sponsor of the amendment to, you know, go to war. I
mean, he was the head of the committee for liberation (ph) of Iraq.
ABRAMS: So, Roy, am I hearing Roy Sekoff correctly? That you are
now entertaining the idea what would have been something unthinkable to Roy
Sekoff only -
SEKOFF: Dan, I am entertaining it now. I know they`re going to,
you know, give it out by text message and everybody sleeping with their
Blackberries, so I can imagine just getting, you know, the message, "Yo,
it`s HRC, LOL," and then, you know, and you got to say, WTF.
BUCHANAN: But Dan, look, suppose I said it`s Hillary. That would
send an explosion through the country, through the convention. The
excitement would be enormous. All these women and everybody that`s
grumbling and unhappy and Barack`s losing it, we should have nominated her.
I think it would bring the Democratic Party together and I think Joe
Biden`s a nice guy, but that`s a single. If you want to go for the fence,
Hillary`s the one.
ABRAMS: But, Chrystia, here`s -- let me ask you, I direct this to
you, Roy. There are going to be a lot of Obama supporters who would be
very upset about that decision. I mean, any time I suggest that Hillary
Clinton should be the V.P. pick, I get all these e-mails from Obama
supporters saying, "No way, no how, she`s antithetical to everything that
we are standing for."
Is there going to be any significant percentage of Obama supporters
who won`t vote if it`s Hillary? I don`t believe it.
SEKOFF: No, there`s absolutely none. But I think what Pat says is
right, I think, it will energize the base, but I think it`s going to
energize the Republican base. I think they`re the ones who salivate of the
mere mention of the Clinton name.
ABRAMS: Roy, really? I don`t buy it.
BUCHANAN: I don`t think they do anymore. Really, there was a time
when Hillary Clinton`s name was the best fundraising name the Republican
Party had, but she ran a very good race and she did a great job and you had
people like Rush and Hannity and others, Buchanan saying she`s doing a
great job. I don`t think she`s now toxic the way she was.
SEKOFF: But Rush is doing that -
FREELAND: Yes, I also think, Dan, that there is this personal
friendship between Senator McCain and Senator Clinton. And, you know, that
might mean that there`s a little bit of restraint, at least, on the
personal attacks if she were on the ticket. I think the big problem with
choosing Hillary wouldn`t be the campaign. I think that she would be the
best person for Barack Obama, help him the most in winning the election.
The big question would be -- what it would be like if you won having
Hillary and Bill Clinton in the White House.
BUCHANAN: You have to win first.
ABRAMS: But wait, but let me ask Pat this question. Pat, how much
time did Dan Quayle spent advising the George Bush, Sr.? I mean, I can`t
imagine that George Bush, Sr., was taking a lot of guidance from Dan Quayle
when he was his vice president.
BUCHANAN: No, he wasn`t. But there`s no doubt about it, Cheney
has been giving a lot of advice and Bush has been taking it.
BUCHANAN: There had been powerful vice presidents and when Jack
Kennedy picked LBJ, Kennedyites, many of them said, "That guy called your
father, an appeaser of Adolf Hitler," they despised the guy, the liberals
didn`t want him to go that direction, Kennedy said, "I`ve got to get in the
White House, I`ve got to win this."
Ronald Reagan went over and picked George H.W. Bush, you ought to
hear he pull (INAUDIBLE) about it that night. Many Reaganites were
outraged. But we wanted to get Reagan in. If he wins, you can deal with
the problem and you can even deal with Bill.
ABRAMS: I worry, you know, I think sometimes, well here`s -- let
me read this first. Ralph Nader on why Obama should pick Clinton. "He
just has to swallow hard and do what JFK did."
Now, I don`t think that Ralph Nader is going to be a guy that a lot
of Democrats are really happy to take guidance from at this point. But, I
do think there is a sense, Chrystia, among some Obama supporters, or at
least that there`s a community of Obama supporters, who simply think it`s
wrong. And as a result, they don`t want to hear about this winning
business. They want to say this is a principled campaign and Hillary
Clinton is not part of that principle.
FREELAND: Of course, you`re right, Dan, but if Barack Obama were
ahead in the polls by 10 percent -
ABRAMS: I agree.
FREELAND: Then that point of view would prevail.
FREELAND: I think at this stage, you know, the weaker Obama looks
in the polls, the more powerful the argument is that winning is more
important than being absolutely pure. And I think also choosing Hillary
Clinton, in a way, would be a demonstration of Barack Obama`s leadership
quality, sort of ruthlessness that you probably need in a president.
BUCHANAN: Because I think that`s -- it would be a sign of
strength. He would say, "Look, I can deal with Hillary, I can deal with
Bill and I can deal with Putin."
ABRAMS: All right. Let me ask you about -
FREELAND: I like that comparison of Hillary Clinton -
ABRAMS: Let me ask you a real question -- Lieberman, is this for
real, Pat, that Lieberman might be McCain`s V.P.?
BUCHANAN: No, I think it`s a stalking horse. I think what he`s
saying is, he knows the Republicans would be outraged. I think it would
cause a riot right on the floor. Joe must go, move it on the floor the
Ten years ago, I would have led it myself, Dan, but I tell you what
I think it is -- I think it`s a stalking horse because I think he wants
Ridge. And Ridge is pro-life and McCain can say, "Well, look, I`m not
going to take Lieberman, he is a liberal, you`re right," however, I mean,
every other way Ridge is a solid Republican. I think it`s more likely he`s
going to pick Ridge now because he`s making this play.
SEKOFF: It`s like when you bring home, you know, the biker
boyfriend, Dan, and then you bring home the hippy boyfriend, so when you
bring home the unemployed guy that you really like the parents are OK with
FREELAND: I`ll tell you, the unconventional choice Wall Street is
still rooting for and that`s Mike Bloomberg.
ABRAMS: Yes. OK, you know -
FREELAND: Rumors were right this week.
BUCHANAN: Another problem on the floor, Chrystia, another problem
on the floor of the convention.
ABRAMS: Here`s what Rush Limbaugh had to say about Lieberman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW")
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: McCain`s already got whatever
moderates he`s going to get by being who he is. We don`t need somebody in
the second spot of the ticket to be an echo of McCain in that way. The
choice alone would cause so many of us to question everything else McCain
has said about appointing the right kind of judges. It goes right to who
McCain is. It`s just that the plus doing so would destroy the Republican
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Pat, let me ask you a separate question.
ABRAMS: How much do the movers and shakers on the right listen to
Rush, like take advice from Rush?
BUCHANAN: I think it`s something else. I think they fundamentally
agree with Rush. Look, if he picks Joe Lieberman, Joe Lieberman is a far,
almost on the far left of his party.
ABRAMS: Come on.
BUCHANAN: His voting record, except for the war, except for the
war, that he`s pro-choice, pro-partial birth abortion, gun control, you
name it. To pick him like that, the Republican Party will say -- we`ve got
no soul. We really don`t believe anything. We want to win so desperately,
we`re going to turn the nomination of the Republican Party, the number two
slot, potential president over to an individual we denounced and rejected
in 2000 when he was running as a Democrat. It would say the Republican
Party has no soul.
SEKOFF: But, Pat, he shows that he`s very good at whispering in
the ear of the candidate, the right answer when he screws about Iraq.
ABRAMS: Pat Buchanan, Chrystia Freeland, and Roy Sekoff, thanks a
Coming up: The "National Enquirer" is threatening to release more
details about John Edwards, unless he admits he fathered Rielle Hunter`s
And bail has just been posted for Casey Anthony. The mother who
waited a month to report her daughter, Caylee, missing.
Plus, Golden boy Michael Phelps may be the toast of America but
Olympic gold medalist and "Playboy" pinup, Amanda Beard, she`s not having
We`re back in 60 seconds.
ABRAMS: Every night we devote this part of the show to what`s
wrong with Washington. Tonight, we`re focusing on what was right as we
mourn the loss of one of the nation`s most dynamic lawmakers, Ohio
Congressman Stephanie Tubbs Jones passed away suddenly earlier today, after
suffering a brain aneurysm while driving in her hometown of Cleveland.
Tubbs Jones, a Democrat, was the first black woman to represent her
state in Congress; the five-term congresswoman was a fiery opponent of the
war in Iraq. She voted against authorizing the use of force. You may
remember her as one of Hillary Clinton`s most effective supporters and she
was a frequent and welcome guest here at MSNBC, including here on this
program. Stephanie Tubbs Jones was 58.
Be right back.
ABRAMS: The battle between John Edwards and the "National
Enquirer" continues tonight. The editor of "Enquirer" basically
threatening Edwards to admit he is the father of Rielle Hunter`s baby
saying, quote, "We have exclusive photographic evidence, pictures, videos,
hard proof to further incriminate Edwards. He doesn`t at this point know
what we have, which is why I`m asking that we don`t reveal too much yet,
and which we will use unless and until he acknowledges paternity."
Among the new details, the "Enquirer" now is claiming that Edwards
promised her they`d be together after his cancer-stricken wife died. That
Rielle Hunter was flown to the Virgin Islands on a chartered jet paid for
by Edwards` pals the day before his interview with ABC "Nightline." And an
"Enquirer" reporter says Hunter is now back in her California home, which
the paper says is being paid for by Edwards` former finance chair.
The question tonight: Since Edwards` has admitted to the affair, is
it time for the "Enquirer" to back off and what should Edwards do now?
Here now: Radio talk show host, Bill Press; and, A.B. Stoddard,
associate editor of "The Hill."
BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, Dan.
ABRAMS: All right. Bill, what do you think? Should the
"Enquirer" be backing off now?
PRESS: I think the "Enquirer" should go out in an aircraft carrier
and put up a very big banner that says "Mission accomplished." You know,
look, I think they set out to destroy John Edwards` political career.
They`ve done it. He`s toast. He`s dead meat. He`s got about as much life
left as this Bigfoot (ph) does.
And, you know, Dan, I`ve got to tell you, as a talk show host,
there`s nothing I love better than a sex scandal, particularly involving a
major politician. I could care a less now about John Edwards. I think
he`s probably the father of the baby, who cares? I think it`s time for the
"Enquirer" to move on.
A.B. STODDARD, THE HILL: I`m going -- Bill Press is a dear friend
of mine and I might mention blogs with me at "The Hill." So, I hate to
disagree with him but I must say that I`m here to defend the right to
report. If it`s true, you report it.
I don`t think that it`s appropriate for the "Enquirer" to be
obviously playing this game where they`re threatening John Edwards. If you
have it, print it.
STODDARD: Well, I do think, I might add, though, John Edwards has
invited this. He`s really -- we will get into this later, but John Edwards
has really brought this on himself and knew (INAUDIBLE).
ABRAMS: But this is the problem. I mean, this is the problem,
Bill, when you pick a fight with the "National Enquirer" you better be
ready. I mean, he`s saying, you know, dismissing them early on, I forget -
- they`re talking about the source of the information, et cetera. The
bottom line is, he now has an all-out war with the "Enquirer" going on and
when you`re in the situation that he`s in, that`s not a war you want.
PRESS: No, no, no. And let me make it clear, I`m not defending
John Edwards. I mean, what he did to his wife, what he did to his party,
is absolutely despicable and I, certainly, think the "Enquirer" has every
right to continue to report this story.
ABRAMS: So, what should he do now? What should Edwards do now?
PRESS: I think, number one, I think, the "Enquirer" ought to move
on to more interesting -
ABRAMS: But what should Edwards do now?
PRESS: And, you know what Edwards ought to do - he ought to go
back and hope that he can keep his marriage together and hope, maybe, he
can practice law because, otherwise, look, he`s not going to be at the
convention, he`s not going to be at the administration, he`s not going to
be vice president, he`s not in the cabinet, he`s not going to ever run for
political office again. He is toast. So, go back and practice law.
ABRAMS: A.B., what does he do? If you were advising him, right,
and the "Enquirer" is threatening the way they are, they keep revealing new
details that they have every week or so, what do you tell him to do?
STODDARD: You stop the bleeding. You have to tell the truth.
Look, he decided -- no, no, he decided to pick a time and place of his own
choosing to reveal the facts of his own choosing in that August 8th
interview with "Nightline" and didn`t fully divulge the facts, it was a
mistake. And he invited all these further investigations and scrutiny and
now, it`s his fault that it`s coming his way.
He has to stop it by telling the entire truth and then saying, "I
hate what I did." But don`t give them more to report upon, he`s giving
them more to hunt down and it`s his fault.
ABRAMS: Why he should be (INAUDIBLE).
PRESS: Dan, you know what, he could never tell every detail that
the "Enquirer" wants to print. I mean, nobody ever will. I just think,
again, we`ve exhausted this subject. I don`t want to know any more about
Larry Craig, I don`t want to know any more about David Vitter, I don`t want
to know any more about how many times when and where John Edwards and
Rielle had sex the first night they met, I don`t care.
ABRAMS: Yes. All right. Bill Press, A.B. Stoddard, thanks a lot.
PRESS: All right, guys, see you later.
ABRAMS: Coming up: The mother of missing Florida three-year-old
Caylee Anthony is about to be released from jail. Her bail was just
posted. We`ve got the breaking details coming up.
And the son of "FOX and Friends" anchor, Steve Doocy, is covering
the DNC for the show, but dad not too happy this morning when another
anchor joked about his son maybe being a pothead. That`s next in Beat the
What`s your VERDICT? E-mail us at: Verdict@msnbc.com. P.O.`ed box
is coming up at the end of the show. Please include your name, where
you`re writing from. Back in a minute.
ABRAMS: It`s time for tonight`s Beat the Press: Our daily look
back at media hypocrisy, agendas, and the amusing perils of live TV.
First up: Why is it that CNN`s terrific anchor, Kiran Chetry likes
gold medal swimming winner Mark Spitz over Michael Phelps? It`s not
because of his swimming ability or even body type.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "AMERICAN MORNING"/CNN)
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: I have to go with Spitz. I like a male
with a little bit more hair. I think Michael Phelps is a little too clean
shaven. He`s a guy, he should have arm pit hair. And you can see his
armpits (INAUDIBLE) -- you can see, he has the nice halo effect from the
armpit here with the sunset back there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Next up: To one of my favorite magazines, the "Wine
Spectator," it covers industry news, it reviews wines -- they also
celebrate restaurants with the best wine lists with their Award of
Excellence. Well, according to author Robin Goldstein, all he needed to
win that award was the $250 submission fee, he then made up a restaurant
name, menu and wine list. The wines he selected, the lowest Italian wines
for the "Wine Spectator" from the past 20 years and he made it.
Page 181 listed as the new winner and a graphic using one wine
glass designating his fake restaurant as an Award of Excellence winner.
Fake restaurant is no longer listed on their Web site.
Finally: To "FOX and Friends" where they make a lot of jokes, but
this morning, when one of their newest anchors, Dave Briggs tried to make a
joke suggesting that Steve Doocy`s college aged son, Peter, might be
interested in marijuana, the jokes ended.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "FOX AND FRIENDS"/FOX NEWS)
DAVE BRIGGS, FOX ANCHOR: Say they`re going to enforce pot laws
during the Democratic convention and, of course, they could be arrested for
a small amount. That`s something you might want to forward that to Peter
Doocy, or maybe not.
STEVE DOOCY, FOX ANCHOR: Hey.
BRIGGS: Only kidding, of course.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: We need your help Beating the Press. If you see anything,
right, wrong, amusing or absurd, the Web site: Verdict.msnbc.com. Please
include the show and the time you saw the item.
Up next: Bond has just been posted tonight for Casey Anthony, the
mother who waited over a month to report her three-year-old daughter
missing. We`re going to have the latest coming up.
And later: Our Olympics edition of Winners and Losers, starring
Michael Phelps and fellow swimmer Amanda Beard, who had something to say
about rumors that the two were romantically involved, quote, "Ewww."
DAN ABRAMS, HOST: We are back with breaking news. Bond has been posted
tonight for Casey Anthony. The mother awaited a month to report her three-
year-old daughter, Caylee Anthony missing. Jail officials say the bond was
posted late this evening and she should walk out of jail tomorrow. Anthony
faces charges of child neglect and filing false reports and has been behind
bars for over a month. Caylee has not been seen since June 15th.
Joining us now on the phone is Mark Williams, the news director at
DWNDB Radio in Daytona, Florida. Thanks very much for joining us. We
appreciate it. So is it this bounty hunter who bailed her out?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, DWNDB RADIO (on the phone): No, Dan, it was
a guy by the name of Tony Estes(ph) who is a Tampa Bay area bail bondsman.
He did that late this afternoon, posting $50,000 of the $500,000 bond. You
only need 10 percent and the rest, of course, being covered.
But, here`s the deal. Before she gets out of jail, Dan - it won`t be
at 8:30 tomorrow morning, it will probably be mid-afternoon. She has to
over come three hurdles. First off, the first thing that they have to do
is notify the Orange County Sheriff`s Offices, the investigating agency,
that Casey Anthony will, in fact, be released on bond.
Then there is another hold and another hurdle that has to be cleared
and this is, they haven`t disclosed what it is, but from what we
understand, from our inside sources, it`s a psychology test that she has to
undergo to make sure that she will go out and not harm anybody else or harm
herself. That is, they say, a quick hurdle to overcome.
Then, thirdly, she has to have a phone because she`s going to have
home confinement with a proximity monitor on her ankle and they have to
have a clear phone line. They can`t have call waiting, call forwarding or
anything like that. Earlier this week, they got that line. So,
apparently, she`s going to be at her home if and when she`s released.
ABRAMS: But Mark, what happened to Padilla, the bounty hunter, who was
doing the media rounds claiming he was going to be the one to spring her?
WILLIAMS: Well, here`s the deal. He has a nephew by the name of Tony
Padilla. Both of them flew in from Sacramento, California earlier this
week - as a matter of fact, over the weekend. And apparently, Tony was
with this Al Estes. Estes is going to be the agent, but it`s going to be
Padilla in the end ...
ABRAMS: Oh, got it.
WILLIAMS: ... going to be Padilla in the end who`s going to be responsible
ABRAMS: Right. OK.
WILLIAMS: And Leonard says he`s going to have somebody there 24/7 with
ABRAMS: I`m going to bring in former FBI profiler, MSNBC analyst, Clint
Van Zandt; and defense attorney Nicole DeBorde.
All right, as a practical matter, Nicole, take us through the
legalities here. Does this mean she is going to be released tomorrow or
are there potentially hurdles that she won`t be able to overcome?
NICOLE DEBORDE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It means that she should be released
tomorrow. Once the bond is made, then she`s supposed to be released. It
does sound like they have several holds in place, which is just what it
sounds like. A hold means that the sheriff`s department will hold her
until they can clear certain administrative processes like, for example,
checking her mental health, making sure nobody else has holds on her from
other counties and make no warrants. But bottom line is that she should be
getting out tomorrow.
ABRAMS: Now, Clint, if you`re law enforcement now, right, and you remain
suspicious of her, how do you deal with it?
CLINT VAN ZANDT, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Yes, well, this is a challenge, Dan.
Everybody`s got a job in this. As much as this Leonard Padilla, the bail
bondsman, him inserting himself, drives me a little crazy, he`s doing his
job as a bail bondsman although I think he`s doing it for his own purposes.
The attorney has got his job.
You know, everybody is doing their thing. The challenge for law
enforcement is that the one person who`s got the key, this young woman who
has sat in jail, she hasn`t shared any information whatsoever. So, to
suggest that perhaps by releasing her, maybe she`ll drop some critical
piece of information. Maybe there will be this Perry Mason moment where
she says, "I can`t take the pressure any more."
You know, I don`t know if that`s going to happen. But you and I and
your viewers know it was only about a year, a year and a half ago, we had a
similar case in Florida. A woman by the name of Melinda Duckett was
suspected in her child`s disappearance. She committed suicide after, you
know, being badgered on television.
ABRAMS: But Clint, what do you do? If you`re law enforcement, if you`re
leading the team of people who now know she`s going to be released and you
still have a lot of questions that you don`t feel have been answered, how
do you deal with it?
VAN ZANDT: Well, they`re waiting for this forensic evidence to come back,
Dan. I think it probably has. I`d say, hypothetically, the body fluid or
the hairs that came out of the trunk of the car that Casey drove proved to
be that of her daughter. Even if that`s the case, then they`re going to
have to somehow link that to the mother. I mean, the mother can simply
say, "Hey, somebody stole my car and they must have used it to transport my
So, the challenge to law enforcement now, they can`t talk to Casey
unless they go through her attorney. So they have it continue to build
either a forensic case or come up with some other type of evidence to
suggest she`s done something more than what she`s charged with right now
which is simply a third degree felony.
ABRAMS: When the judge set $500,000 as the amount, Nicole, do you think
that the judge was expecting that she wouldn`t be able to find that kind of
money, the 10 percent?
DEBORDE: I honestly don`t believe the judge thought that she would be able
to bond herself out. I mean - and the problem with that is that the judges
aren`t supposed to set bonds that they don`t believe a person can make.
They`re supposed to set a reasonable bail and everybody seemed to get
pretty upset when it turned out that it looked like she was going to be
able to make the bond. But the fact is, she is entitled to be able to do
that. She`s entitled to have a reasonable bond and she made it.
ABRAMS: All right. Mark, you talked about a number of things that have to
occur now before this happens. Talk about the home confinement for a
WILLIAMS: Well, the home confinement, first off, Casey, if she gets out of
jail tomorrow, she will be given a 10-page document which she must sign on
page 10 saying that she adheres to certain things. She can hold a full-
time job if she wants to. She, she can go to school, if she wants to.
But, literally, she must stay in the house.
Any time she leaves the house, she must have the authority and the OK
of a case manager who`s watching her case. She can`t be drinking alcohol.
She can`t have a weapon. There are certain dress codes involved in this.
And if she absconds, she`s going back to the Orange County slammer again,
ABRAMS: Let me play a piece. This is some of the sound of the tapes made
between Casey Anthony and some of her relatives taken when they called her
early on from jail.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I don`t know what your involvement
is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: Because I don`t
(EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, don`t waste your call to scream and holler at me.
CASEY ANTHONY: No! Waste my call sitting in the jail, in this bunk?
CINDY ANTHONY: Whose fault is you sitting in the jail? You`re blaming me
you`re sitting in the jail? Blame yourself for telling lies.
BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: We`re going to find out. Something, whatever`s
going on, it`s going to be found out. So why not do it now, save yourself
CASEY ANTHONY: There is nothing to find out. There`s absolutely nothing
to find out. That`s even what I told the detectives.
BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Well, you know, everything you`ve been telling
us is a lie.
CASEY ANTHONY: I have no clue where Caylee is. If I knew where Caylee is,
do you think any of this would be happening? No.
FRIEND OF CASEY ANTHONY: How come everybody`s saying that you`re not
upset, that you`re not crying, that you showed no caring of where Caylee is
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I`m not sitting here (EXPLETIVE DELETED) crying
every two seconds because I have to stay composed to talk to detectives, to
make other phone calls, to do other things. I can`t sit here and be crying
every two seconds like I want to. I can`t.
BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Do you think Caylee`s OK right now?
CASEY ANTHONY: In my gut she`s still OK and it still feels like she`s
close to home.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ABRAMS: The family members, at least most of them, have now come to
support Casey in a way that didn`t sound like they were necessarily doing
on that tape. Real quick, Clint, do you think they`re going to crack the
VAN ZANDT: Well, I think they will eventually, Dan. They`re going to put
her at home and she`s going to have this Martha Stewart ankle bracelet
around her to keep her from wandering too far away from the house. She`s
eventually going to have to stand trial for these other things that she`s
But the bottom line, she knows and her attorney is going to tell her,
the only person that can hurt you right now, if you had anything to do with
the disappearance or death of your child is yourself. If you keep your
mouth shut, you`re going to get past this, you know. Unless they have
physical evidence or unless they come up with a body, Dan, that may be the
ABRAMS: Yes. All right. Mark, Clint and Nicole, thanks a lot.
Up next, "Winners and Losers," the Olympics edition with Michael
Phelps promoting Frosted Flakes. It is causing controversy with some
nutritionists who don`t think the sugary cereal is so great.
And the monkey loose in the subway station, as in a subway station.
"Reality Bites" in 60 seconds.
ABRAMS: Now to "Reality Bites," a dose of reality caught on tape.
Tonight, to Tokyo where the morning rush hour commute took a strange turn,
thanks to a monkey that wandered into a subway station. The primate
planted himself above the departure board as police tried in vain to trap
him. In the end, authorities no match for the little guy. He escaped.
According to local media, the monkey was last seen heading towards a nearby
park. Right back.
ABRAMS: Welcome back. It`s time now for tonight`s "Winners and Losers,"
our special Beijing Olympics edition. And with us, as always, is Contessa
CONTESSA BREWER, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Dan, so, first up, Olympic fans are
hoping for an underwater romance, but those fans may be out of luck big
time. Romance rumors have been swirling around fellow Olympians Michael
Phelps and Amanda Beard, too hotties. Phelps tried to quash the gossip
diplomatically diplomatically. He told "Extra," quote, "I`m not dating
Amanda Beard, I`ll say that. I think she has a boyfriend."
But a simple "no" wasn`t enough for Beard who took a blow torch to the
romance buzz when she was asked about it on a radio show yesterday.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RADIO HOST: Are you dating Michael Phelps?
AMANDA BEARD, OLYMPIC SWIMMER: I`m not dating Michael Phelps.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RADIO HOST: Have you hooked up with Michael Phelps?
BEARD: I have never, ever in my life hooked up with Michael Phelps.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RADIO HOST: Have you kissed him?
BEARD: Eew, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE RADIO HOST: Have you held hands?
BEARD: Eew, no, not even that. I won`t - no, come on. Come on, I have
really good taste.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BREWER: Eew? No? I mean, Beard insists today - she told "People" she was
just kidding, says Michael Phelps is like her brother. Is that an apology?
You`re like my brother?
ABRAMS: Yes. I think that people should lay off. I think, you know,
she`s joking around. It`s like you can`t joke about Michael Phelps.
Suddenly, she`s being criticized because she was suggesting she wouldn`t
Let`s say she really felt that way, right? Let`s say that they`re
pals and they`re friends and she feels like, "You know what? There`s no
way I`d date Michael Phelps." It`s as if you can`t criticize - it`s
politically incorrect to say anything negative about Michael Phelps.
BREWER: Come on. Here, he`s kind of like a kid, you know. And he`s got -
Look how hot she is.
ABRAMS: Wow. She`s really pretty.
BREWER: I mean, you know - so, there are a lot of men think so. So here
you have this hot woman who`s telling this boy, "No, I think of you like my
kid brother. Eew, gross." Don`t you think that it hurts his feelings a
ABRAMS: Oh, please.
BREWER: I mean, he has eight medals to comfort him.
ABRAMS: Please. She claims - this is her quote to "People," "Everyone who
knows me knows I can be a jokester, but I guess I took it too far. I never
meant to say anything rude about Michael. I am 100 percent sorry for what
I said. I take full responsibility."
I mean, she has to come out and give this like, heart-felt apology,
"I`m so sorry that I said `Eww.`" I mean, you know - Chill out!
BREWER: OK. More Michael Phelps news here, more controversy. Phelps,
just one of a long line of Olympic champions to land on the Wheaties box,
is passing on the breakfast of champions this time around, opting instead
for Kellogg`s cereals. Reportedly his Olympic glory will be chronicled on
corn flakes and frosted flakes boxes. Frosted flakes, next month.
Health experts are not happy with that. One nutritionist tells the
"New York Daily News," "I would not consider frosted flakes the food of an
Olympian. I would rather see him promoting Fiber One." I would rather see
him promoting oatmeal. I would rather see him promoting Cheerios."
ABRAMS: I know. The nutritionist now gets to decide - by the way, that`s
a mock box we made up there. Not really -
BREWER: We haven`t seen that yet.
ABRAMS: Yes. But, you know, will the nutritionists now get to decide
which products Michael Phelps is allowed to endorse?
BREWER: I mean, I think what she`s saying is, "Do you really want to
encourage children to eat the sugared cereal?" I mean -
ABRAMS: I know. Do you want to hear problems that he`s going to have
then? If that`s a problem, this is what he said on CNBC when he`s talking
about the types of endorsements that he might like to do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL PHELPS, SWIMMER AND EIGHT-TIME OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST: I love fast
food. I mean I eat fast food all the time. I think a fast food deal would
be pretty cool. That would be pretty fun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Oh, horrors! Horrors!
BREWER: That`s going to make the sugared cereal look good.
ABRAMS: Yes. Horrors! He is suggesting he might endorse. What, he has
to suddenly adhere to these ridiculous standards where he can only endorse
things that everyone agrees are good?
BREWER: No, I don`t think that`s the point. But the point - you know,
12,000 calories for breakfast - it`s not - The sugared cereal is the least
of his problems. And if he`s eating that much for breakfast ...
BREWER: ... and encouraging kids with the pancakes and the French toast
and all. I mean, you know, who cares? Let him get his money where he can.
ABRAMS: Leave him alone on this one.
BREWER: Next up, most Olympic contenders get a good luck message from
their parents, or their spouses or their sweethearts. But a movie star may
have made the magic happen for Australian sailing champs Malcolm Page and
Nathan Wilmoth. They pulled off a gold medal victory after Nicole Kidman
phoned them. Kidman, of course from Australia herself, called to wish them
luck before the race. They almost missed the call.
This is what`s really funny. Page says he ignores his cell phone when
it rang because he didn`t recognize the number. Then he heard Nicole
Kidman`s voice his voice mail and called her right back. He told "The
Australian Herald Sun," quote, "She was very surprised that we do have a
tradition of naming our boats after her movies and she`s just really stoked
to be part of a team." I`m sure that`s what she told them.
ABRAMS: You know, Contessa, the headline says, "Nicole Kidman Prompts
Olympians` Sail to Victory." As if it was Nicole Kidman`s call that led to
BREWER: Well, listen. If Helen of Troy can spark a war, I don`t
understand why Nicole Kidman can`t spark a gold medal victory.
ABRAMS: Contessa is staying with us. Up next, will tonight`s big winner
or loser be Paris Hilton, hoping to make a new best friend so she can get
her break on British television? John Mayer apparently broke up with
Jennifer Aniston via text message? Or U.S. women breaking the bank,
spending $7 billion a year on cosmetics and beauty products? And your E-
mails in the "P.O.`d Box." We`ll be right back.
ABRAMS: It`s time for the day`s other winners and losers, and Contessa is
back with us. Contessa?
BREWER: Dan, do you know what a BFF is?
ABRAMS: I do, actually.
ABRAMS: Best friend forever.
BREWER: Are you just reading that on the teleprompter?
ABRAMS: No, I actually knew that beforehand.
BREWER: OK. Very well done. You passed the test. Paris Hilton on the
hunt for a new BFF. A British one. The celebuthon(ph) is prepping for the
UK version of her upcoming reality show "Paris Hilton`s New Best Friend."
Hilton tells the British network ITV, quote, "London, watch out. I`m
coming to town and bringing my fast-paced life with me. I need a new best
friend who is hot."
ABRAMS: Look at the picture we`re using of Paris Hilton.
BREWER: She looks very serious.
ABRAMS: It`s an awful picture. All right. Go ahead.
BREWER: "Who can keep up with me and who, most of all, is real." Wait a
minute, if I`d known, Paris Hilton wants someone who is real - "And won`t
be a backstabber."
Here`s the premise. Potential pals have to live together while Paris
puts them through friend endurance tests like party appearances, photo
shoots, girl talk. I mean, this sounds like the perfect job for me. I
could do definitely that.
BREWER: She`ll eliminate the wannabes one by one until she`s left with a
brand new best friend. Yes!
ABRAMS: You know, I saw Paris Hilton in a restaurant last week. And like
the restaurant had like private security there for her. Just for Paris.
She was there with her family.
BREWER: I mean, how does she expect to make a best friend with all the
security guarding her from the real people?
ABRAMS: It is not easy being Paris. Leave her alone! Leave her alone!
Leave her alone!
BREWER: You know why she`s searching for a British best friend?
BREWER: She says when she goes to London so frequently, she can`t really
schlep all her friends with her. I don`t know why, she schleps her dog
OK. Next up - oh, no, he didn`t. The John Mayer-Jennifer Aniston
breakup saga continues. And now reports are surfacing that John dumped Jen
with a text message.
ABRAMS: I mean, this a guy -
BREWER: A friend of Mayer`s supposedly told a British tabloid Aniston was
so intent on getting married and having children that Mayer felt hemmed in.
Who wouldn`t marry Jennifer Aniston? So after a 20-minute phone fight, he
sent Jen a text that said, "That`s it. The end." I mean, if this is true
BREWER: Total loser.
ABRAMS: You know, I question this story. I`ve got to tell you it sounds
like something being pitched by a friend of Aniston to make him look so
bad, because you`re right. If it`s true, it`s unbelievable.
BREWER: OK. How about this? If a friend lies, total loser.
By the way, remember Brett E-mailed last night and said I was male
bashing when I was saying -
ABRAMS: Yes, I do.
BREWER: OK. How does this one strike you? If it`s true, Brett, what do
you think about this? Is this really male bashing, text breaking up with
someone? I don`t know.
ABRAMS: I`m glad you remembered Brett`s name. He`ll be very flattered.
BREWER: It`s all right here.
ABRAMS: Yes, because he insulted you, you remember.
BREWER: Finally, women apparently - you`re going to love this story.
BREWER: Women are more appearance-obsessed than ever, and just costing us
tons of time and money. Believe it or not, according to the YWCA, women in
the United States spend some $7 billion per year on cosmetics and beauty
products. I mean, that`s $100 a month. That`s an outfit. I mean, if
you`re bargain shopping like I do.
And according to a recent British survey, by the way, the average
woman spends more than 3,000 hours primping and preening over her lifetime.
So we spend, in the time that we spend, Dan, we, women, as a whole, waxing,
moisturizing, tweezing, shaving, plucking - you could fly to the moon and
back 22 times.
ABRAMS: Right. And sometimes people do it on camera with -
BREWER: Oh. You know what? That`s playing dirty. They`d think -
ABRAMS: You know, and they get busted.
BREWER: You know who should spend more time grooming?
ABRAMS: Yes, I know. Contessa, let`s talk about this. So what`s the
matter? So what, so women spend a lot of money and et cetera.
BREWER: You know what it is, and you know who they`re primping for? Men.
BREWER: As I said before, you know who really needs the primping. The men
ABRAMS: Are you male bashing again? Are you doing it again?
BREWER: I`m just saying -
ABRAMS: Are you doing get right after Brett - I mean -
BREWER: I`m just saying women - We, women, for all of this, are losers.
In fact, you know what? To make up for it tomorrow, no makeup for me, no
hair, no primping. In fact, I might not even take a shower.
ABRAMS: Yes. Yes.
ABRAMS: Contessa, stick around for a minute. Because in the "P.O.`d Box,"
I want to see if you`ll agree with this comment, all right?
We just have an E-mail tonight Jazz Williamson from San Diego who
writes, "I sent over 100 insightful E-mails to no avail. Let me try this
approach. You seem like a cool guy that I`d want to share a beer with.
But your "Mr. Roger`s Neighborhood," "Howdy Doody," Alfred E. Newman "What,
me worry?" end of the show goodbye wave is totally Nerdsville to the nth
degree. Still, I love your show."
BREWER: This is coming from Jazz, who has written to you 100 times. Jazz
has a lot he wants to say.
ABRAMS: He does.
BREWER: And you know what? He finally, after 100 times, hit on a topic
that got you to put him in the E-mail.
ABRAMS: He made it as the only E-mail. He made it as the only E-mail.
BREWER: Jazz, I`ve got to say, buddy. I love Dan`s wave. I think it`s
the coolest. It`s like the Fonz.
ABRAMS: All right. Contessa, let`s see. Can you do it? Can you do the
BREWER: Kind of a salute, right?
ABRAMS: That is all the time we have for tonight. E-mail us about the
show firstname.lastname@example.org. A lot of E-mails about the future of this show.
We`ll talk about those tomorrow. See you.
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