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Thursday, April 8, 2010

Read the transcript to the Thursday show

Guest: Mike Lillis, Cecil Roberts, Donny Deutsch, Eric Burns, Roy Sekoff, Michael Graham, Laura Flanders, Stephen A. Smith, Jim Wallis

ED SCHULTZ, HOST:  Good evening, Americans, and welcome to THE ED SHOW

tonight from New York.

These stories are hitting my hot buttons tonight. 

Four men are still trapped underground in the West Virginia mine

disaster.  I‘ll show you how Massey Energy CEO Don Blankenship spends his

money on Sean Hannity instead of safety for his own workers. 

Plus, the mother of the man who threatened Speaker Nancy Pelosi is

blaming Fox News for driving her son to the edge.  You won‘t believe what

“The Drugster” had to say about that today.  He goes to “Psycho Talk.”  

And Tiger Woods is back, and doing what he does best.  He‘s 3 under

213.  That‘s called playing golf early on. 

I‘ll show you how he did, and also this new Nike commercial that has

got America talking.  Very controversial, I think. 

But first, this is the story that‘s got me fired up tonight.  And it

did last night, and it‘s going to be for a long time until we get some


Remember Senator Ted Kennedy said, “When does the greed stop?”  Great

question at this hour. 

There are still four missing men in the Upper Big Branch mine.  Rescue

crews are frantically trying to find a way to save them.  Poisonous gases

have filled the underground tunnel since Monday‘s afternoon blast.  Twenty-

five miners have already been confirmed dead.  That‘s 25 families that are

missing a loved one. 

This tragedy, I think, squarely sits on the desk of the CEO of Massey

Energy, and that‘s Don Blankenship.  You know, I think you ought to get to

know this guy a little bit, because last night I was talking about the

haves, the have-nots, the labor, the pro-labor or the con-labor, that


Blankenship, he‘s a right-wing activist millionaire who sits on the

boards of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the National Mining Association. 

Dozens of other active tunnel mines owned by this company, Massey Energy,

have run up thousands of safety violations this year.  Hundreds of those

citations target the same problems with ventilation and methane buildup

that many believe caused the West Virginia disaster.

Massey Energy controls—let‘s see now -- 41 other underground coal

mines currently in operation in Appalachia.  Investigators have cited those

projects—well, let‘s see, 2,074 safety violations since the start of

this year. 

Now, at this very minutes, thousands of mines and miners are out

there.  They are risking their lives so Blankenship, well, he can go off

and live the good life. 

See, those mines, they‘re filled with paycheck-to-paycheck hard-

working Americans so Blankenship can vacation on the French Riviera. 

That‘s how it kind of works in their front office. 

Now, I don‘t think he gives a damn about these workers.  And I‘ll tell

you, here‘s why. 

Back in 2005, Blankenship wrote a memo to employees telling them to

maximize coal production.  And that was far more important than spending

time constructing things like support beams or ventilation shafts. 

He wrote, “If any of you have been asked by your group presidents or

supervisors, engineers or anyone else, to do anything other than run coal -

for example, build overcast, do construction jobs, or whatever—you

need to ignore them and run coal.”

Blankenship wasn‘t willing to pay for the safety of his employees.  He

does more important things with his money. 

You see, Blankenship spent over a million dollars, along with U.S. 

Chamber buddies, to sponsor this past year‘s Labor Day Tea Party, also

known as the Friends of America rally.  The Friends of America rally

featured, let‘s see, the guy across the street, Hannity, Ted Nugent and

Hank Williams Jr.

Here‘s Blankenship at the gig. 


DON BLANKENSHIP, CEO, MASSEY ENERGY:  Helping our government give our

jobs away to so-called corporate America.  These corporations donate money

for the far left politicians so they can socialize with them, have cocktail

parties and play golf.  Thank God I don‘t play golf. 


SCHULTZ:  Oh, God bless you. 

Now, there‘s one of Sean Hannity‘s great Americans, right? 

This guy Blankenship is absolutely, in my opinion, ruthless.  He has

no moral compass.  When you make $18 million, you know, you can do a lot of

things, can‘t you?  You can give the finger to a lot of people.  It makes

it really easy to become one of the boys when you‘re in that income level. 

Now, I‘m not doing class warfare here, but the actions of this man,

absolutely atrocious. 

People have now died because it has been all about the bottom line for

Blankenship.  There is nothing American about worshipping the God Almighty

dollar at the altar for your own self preservation on the backs of other

hard-working Americans. 

In my opinion, Blankenship is criminally negligent for these

fatalities, and I think the unions in this country are going to mount the

legal charge.  I mean, even if this guy was convicted and he was sentenced

to spend the rest of his life in jail, I mean, ,I don‘t think he‘s ever

going to know the pain that the greed and the phony patriotism has really

inflicted on this country. 

Joining me now is Mike Lillis.  He is a reporter for “The Washington

Independent,” who has spent some serious time looking into Blankenship and

his mines. 

Mr. Lillis, good to have you with us tonight. 

What‘s the business model?  I mean, are all the mines operated pretty

much the same way? 

MIKE LILLIS, “WASHINGTON INDEPENDENT”:  Well, they certainly do.  You

pointed out that Blankenship is certainly the target of all of this. 

Understandably, he owns the mine. 

But if you look at the violations, it‘s certainly not just Massey. 

It‘s everybody.  They‘re racking up thousands of violations and it goes

under the radar. 

SCHULTZ:  So it‘s an industry issue right now? 

LILLIS:  It is certainly an issue again.  Again, Blankenship is the

guy that‘s easy to target because he owned the mine that blew up on Monday. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.  From the research that you have done, are union mines

run differently than non-union mines? 

LILLIS:  I haven‘t dug into that issue.  I know that Massey certainly

prefers non-union mines, and the one in Upper Big Branch that blew up

Monday is a non-union mine. 

SCHULTZ:  All right.

What kind of lobbying influence?  What kind of things do they do with

Washington?  What kind of connections are there with the past

administration or this administration, for that matter? 

LILLIS:  The administration is inconsequential.  These guys spend

millions and millions of dollars all the time. 

You‘ll see spikes slashed here.  You saw a spike when the House was

passing its climate change bill.  So you‘ll see issue-related spikes and

things like that.  But for the most part, these guys consistently spend

tons of money to keep Congress members happy and grease them up, and have

them kill legislation that would harm the industry. 

SCHULTZ:  Now, how do they get away with dodging these violations?  Is

it part of the business model, in your opinion, just to pay the fine and

live with the violations? 

LILLIS:  It certainly is.  You know, looking at some of these

violations, a lot of them are $100, $120, $200.  They‘re not a lot of

money, especially considering what some of them are targeting.  And so for

an enormous conglomerate like Massey, it‘s very easy to pay that fine and

move on, and not have to really spend more money to clean things up. 

SCHULTZ:  You were talking about where they spend their money.  It

should be pointed out that Massey rewarded Republicans with massive

donations after the company avoided paying billions of dollars in fines for

a 2000 coal slurry disaster in Martin County. 

And you aware of that one? 

LILLIS:  I was not. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.  So they line the pockets of those who protect them. 

Also, legislation has been introduced.  We‘ll touch on that in a

moment, and why has it got hung up in the partisan halls of Congress? 

But as you see it right now, there really is nothing out there that‘s

going to change the way these mining companies operate? 

LILLIS:  Well, I think the explosion will.  Certainly, all eyes are on

this guy, all eyes are on the industry.  And the law that passed in 2006

was sold at the time as the biggest overhaul of the mining industry in 30

years.  And if that didn‘t work, then they‘re going to have to go back to

the drawing board and find something that does. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, let me tell you why that didn‘t work.  I‘m glad you

brought that up. 

George Miller, who is the chairman of the House Education and Labor

Committee, they passed it.  And as committee chairman, he pressed for

additional mine safety reforms beyond the requirements of legislation which

you talked about in 2006, following the explosion in the Sago mine in West

Virginia that killed 12 workers. 

Miller‘s bill passed the House in 2008, but it stalled in the Senate,

partly because of the main champion of the bill, Senator Ted Kennedy,

became ill and later passed away.  So they passed legislation.  They tried

to go back and do more. 

What do you think has to happen now on a congressional level to make

this thing turn around and protect these workers? 

LILLIS:  Well, interestingly enough, that 2006 law that you mentioned,

Chairman Miller voted against it.  He said it wasn‘t strong enough, they

didn‘t accept some of his amendments, and so he said never mind, I‘m not

going to vote for it. 

Nancy Pelosi did the same.  Rahm Emanuel did the same.  There were a

number of liberal Democrats who rejected that bill outright. 

The bill that passed in 2008 that you just mentioned would have made

it easier to close some of the mines.  It would have hiked the penalties so

those hundred-dollar things might have had a little more sway.  And then it

hit the Senate. 

And actually, you mentioned Kennedy‘s illness, and that was certainly

a factor.  But it was also a veto threat from the White House, and there

was no way they would have gotten the 67 to override the veto, so they kind

of just dropped it in the Senate. 

SCHULTZ:  So the Obama administration as well has not done enough? 

LILLIS:  There‘s certainly more that the Obama administration can do. 

They‘re kind of feeling their way through, you know—in their policy

towards the coal industry. 

You‘re seeing this in mountaintop mining.  In the wake of this

disaster you‘re going to see this in deep tunnel mining.  But it‘s tough to

come in during a recession, worried about gas prices spiking, worried about

jobs in Appalachia. 

You‘ve got to remember that the coal industry is still an enormous

economic engine in Appalachia.  He doesn‘t want to cause more job losses in

an already destitute nook of the country, and so he‘s been treading very

carefully, but I think you‘ll see that change soon. 

SCHULTZ:  Mike Lillis, of “The Washington Independent.”

Good to have you with us tonight.  Thanks so much. 

LILLIS:  Thank you.

SCHULTZ:  For more on this, let‘s talk to a real major player in all

of this.  Cecil Roberts, he is the president of the United Mine Workers. 

Mr. Roberts, good to have you with us tonight.  Put into contact what

could be done to protect workers. 


one thing that has not been mentioned up to this point, Ed, if I might? 

SCHULTZ:  Yes, sir. 

ROBERTS:  Prior to this terrible tragedy at Upper Big Branch, 20

miners at Massey operations had lost their lives in the last 10 years.  So,

counting the ones at Upper Big Branch, we‘re now at 45 miners who‘ve lost

their lives working at one of these Massey operations. 

And if the unfortunate comes to pass here—and we pray every night

that these four missing miners survive—we‘re going to be sitting at 49. 

There‘s not an industry in this country where this should be tolerated. 

I want to thank you for standing up for the working class people of

the United States of America.  But let me tell you what‘s happened with the

2006 law, if I might. 

Congressman Miller just had a hearing at the end of February which I

testified in.  And what has happened, these coal companies, particularly

companies like Massey, have appealed these fines and these citations to the

extent that we have about a 19,000 backup at the review board.  So what

that means is, they‘ve been cited, they‘ve been fined, but they haven‘t

paid them. 

Now, what that means is MSHA they cannot shut them down due to a

pattern of violations because this is in the appeals process.  What

Congressman Miller is looking at, we‘re looking at, we need to fix this

right away. 

One other thing that would go a long ways, Ed, to protecting the coal

miners of this nation, yesterday, Governor Manchin of West Virginia said if

any miner out there working in a non-union mine or a union mine knew of any

violation, please come forward.  Let‘s not be afraid to do that. 

What we need to do is put some teeth in that and say you cannot be

fired, you cannot be disciplined, you cannot be discharged if you come

forward.  That‘s the teeth we need protect these coal miners. 

SCHULTZ:  Well, that would be the Employee Free Choice Act.  That‘s a

provision that‘s in it as well. 

But one of the workers that was on this network yesterday talking to

Norah O‘Donnell said that he didn‘t know anything about the violations. 

Now, this is a guy that goes down there every day trying to make a living

and is apparently browbeaten by the company, the way they‘re treated,

because if they don‘t go down there when there are violations and there are

safety hazards, heck, they lose their job.  So they‘re forced to go in

there and do it. 

And when you look at the safety violations, the Justice 1 mine in

Boone County, West Virginia, is at 115.  The Powellton mine has got 80 in

Fayette County, West Virginia.  And the Slip Ridge Cedar Grove mine has got

40 citations. 

This is all this year.  This is standard operating procedure. 

Now, with that in mind, what are the legal ramifications, in your

opinion, here?  What are the working folk, what are the union organizers

going to do on this? 

ROBERTS:  Well, let me say something to you.  We‘ve had three

organizing attempts at this particular mine. 

You mentioned the Employee Free Choice Act a few minutes ago.  If we

had had the Employee Free Choice Act, this mine would have been union a

long time ago. 

The first vote we had there was a tie vote.  You know we lose on all

ties.  We had, like, 65 to 70 percent of the workers there who signed cards

and wanted the union, but they couldn‘t get a union. 

This guy, Don Blankenship, actually—I want you to think about this. 

This is a guy making $30-some million in 2005, went inside the coal mine

and sat down with every single worker and said, if you vote for the union

here, you‘re not going to have a job because I will close this mine down. 

Now, that‘s the thing we need to correct. 

SCHULTZ:  OK.  And so the Obama administration needs to step up. 

Do you need to hear the president get involved in this? 

ROBERTS:  Let me say it to you about the president.  The president,

I‘ve got to give him some credit here. 

For the first time in history, Joe Main, a member of the United Mine

Workers, was appointed to head MSHA.  We have never had that in the history

of this country until President Obama took that bold step and did that. 

The workers have one of their own running this agency right now.  We

do need the Employee Free Choice Act.  Not only should President Obama

stand up with us on that, but every member of Congress should stand up and

say let‘s give a voice to every worker in this country, let‘s level the

playing field. 

SCHULTZ:  And quickly, are the unions going to go after Blankenship? 

Do you think he‘s negligent?  Do you think there‘s some liability here? 

ROBERTS:  Let me tell you this—we‘re having conversations as we

speak right now.  I spoke to Leo Gerard about this yesterday.  We‘ve spoken

to the people at AFL-CIO.  This person should be held accountable for

what‘s happened here. 

SCHULTZ:  Cecil Roberts, president of the United Mine Workers. 

Great to have you with us tonight.  You have my commitment.  We will

stay on this story.  And I appreciate your time.

ROBERTS:  Please continue to pray for these workers and their


SCHULTZ:  Yes, sir, we will. 

Coming up, Tiger has finally done it.  He‘s out of the woods and back

on the green of the Masters.  But the new Nike commercial featuring his

dead father has disgusted some of the folks out there. 

Advertising mogul Donny Deutsch will tell us what he makes of this in

just a moment. 

Get this—the mother of the man behind bars for harassing Nancy

Pelosi says—she says he‘s crazy because he watches so much Fox News. 

We‘ll get to the bottom of that at the bottom of the hour. 

All that, plus Stephen A. Smith in the “Playbook,” and “The Drugster”

stoops real low in the “zone.” 

You‘re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.  Stay with us.


SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Tiger Woods hit the golf course today, but this is what everybody‘s

talking about. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Tiger, I am more prone to be inquisitive, to

promote discussion.  I want to find out what your thinking was.  I want to

find out what your feelings are.  And did you learn anything? 


SCHULTZ:  Joining me now is the chairman of Deutsch Inc., Donny

Deutsch.  Deutsch Inc. is a multibillion-dollar advertising agency. 

Donny, good to have you with us.

DONNY DEUTSCH, CHAIRMAN, DEUTSCH INC.:  How you doing, big guy? 

SCHULTZ:  Did he hit it out of the park? 

DEUTSCH:  Yes, I think it‘s a brilliant piece of advertising.  I was


You know, Nike has a history of obviously doing cutting-edge stuff. 

What I loved about this, it would have been very easy for Nike to kind of

still lay in the weeds and not do anything, and then three or four or six

months from now, just show him golfing again, hitting golf balls.

But they basically walked right into it.  And what they wanted to say

to consumers and viewers was, hey, just because you see Tiger playing golf,

it doesn‘t mean we‘ve moved on our merry way.  This is a man who now is

living with a different kind of conscience, the ultimate conscience, his

father as the voice of God, and we recognize that as his brand partner.  I

think it‘s a brave move, a bold move, and a brilliant move. 

SCHULTZ:  But it doesn‘t make me want to go buy Nike equipment. 

What‘s the mission here?

DEUTSCH:  Yes, but, you know, if you look at any Nike spot, it‘s like

if you said Michael Jordan jumping up and just slamming a hoop, does that

make me want to buy a product?  What it does is it says Nike as a brand

understands that we don‘t expect you to say, hey, Tiger Woods is back, it‘s

great.  We understand this is a flawed human being, and hopefully he‘s

grown from this.  And so it‘s kind of a deeper message than that. 

SCHULTZ:  What about the look on his face?  It‘s almost


DEUTSCH:  They want to say—once again, if there was an ad that ran

tomorrow that had him playing golf and laughing, you‘d go, damn, this guy

went through all this, and so he‘s playing golf and it‘s like he‘s learned

nothing from it.  What they‘re trying to say is this is a man of remorse,

this is a different man.  This is not happy-go-lucky guy, all is not good. 

So I think that‘s the admission.  I think that‘s the brilliance of it. 

SCHULTZ:  Do you think it will be effective? 

DEUTSCH:  I think it‘s wonderfully effective, because now it gives

them permission to move on.  Now, next month, after the Masters, when they

run a more traditional ad, you don‘t go, oh, man, these guys have their

heads in the sand, they haven‘t been looking.  And I think it‘s wonderful.

I actually think the bigger media news story today was Billy Payne at

the Masters coming out and scolding Tiger.  Who has does more egregious

thing to women than the Masters and Billy Payne not letting women in, not

letting blacks in until recently. 

I mean, how dear they stand on a soapbox and point fingers at Tiger. 

I thought that was the biggest piece of hypocrisy I‘ve ever seen. 

SCHULTZ:  And just one more point about Nike.  You say it‘s brilliant,

but they‘re doubling down on it.  I mean, they‘ve got so much money, they

have to—they just can‘t leave him right now. 

DEUTSCH:  Well, no, that‘s a given.  Look, this is their—he‘s not a

spokesperson, he is their business.  This is a billion-dollar brand. 

They‘re not going anywhere until he breaks laws.  And obviously, what

he did was wrong, but he didn‘t break a law. 

But this is—as a sponsor, you‘re saying, you know what?  We know

this guy screw up.  You‘re not putting your head in the sand.  And that‘s

what‘s so smart about it.

Like I said, Ed, I‘ve been in this business a long time.  One of the

single greatest marketing moves I‘ve ever seen. 

SCHULTZ:  Donny Deutsch, you‘re the best. 

DEUTSCH:  Great to see you, buddy.

SCHULTZ:  Great to have you with us.

Coming up, “The Drugster” defends a criminal and Fox News, all in one

breath.  He‘s bouncing his way right back into “Psycho Talk” next.


SCHULTZ:  And in “Psycho Talk” tonight, righty talkers are under fire

for inciting anti-health care reform violence. 

And “The Drugster,” well, he‘s got his boxers all in a twist over

this.  Rush argued that we‘re underestimating the intelligence of these

bozos who are out cutting gas lines and throwing rocks through windows. 


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST:  Do you people in the media, do

you ever stop to consider that you have an intelligent, informed electorate

who simply doesn‘t like being raped?  And being raped is what is happening

to people in this country by their government. 


SCHULTZ:  Well, Drugster, it‘s exactly that kind of inflammatory

rhetoric that incites folks like the nut job who just got arrested for

threatening Nancy Pelosi.  More on him later. 

But “The Drugster” showed that he‘s truly oblivious what‘s going on

when he started to stick up for his buddies over at Fox. 


LIMBAUGH:  They are now criminalizing Fox News.  They‘re trying to

criminalize talk radio. 

Let me ask you a question.  What did Fox News do except tell the truth

about the health care bill? 



SCHULTZ:  You‘ve got to be kidding me on that one.  Fox did everything

but tell the truth about the health care bill. 

They pushed the idea of death panels.  They promoted Tea Parties. 

They told you that Obama was going to pull the plug on grandma.  And they

told you that Nazis, Marxists, fascists, communists were going to take over

the country all because of health care reform. 

Now, after all that, acting like Fox News is being unfairly attacked,

it‘s “Psycho Talk.” 

Coming up, I‘ll show you the criminal that Rush is defending.

And Eric Burns from Media Matters will show us exactly why guys like

Hannity could bear the blame for making a man threaten the life of Nancy


Plus, at this moment, Tiger Woods is wrapping up his first round of

the Masters.  Stephen A. Smith and I will tell you how the number one

golfer in the world is doing at Augusta.  That‘s coming up in the


You‘re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to the ED SHOW here on MSNBC and thanks for

watching tonight.  The hate for rhetoric coming from Righty media is

promoting violence no matter how much the drugster try to deny it. 

Yesterday, the FBI arrested a California man for making dozens of

threatening phone calls to house speaker Nancy Pelosi.  Well, now, the

man‘s own mother has said that the Right Wing network across the street had

something to do with it.


ELEANOR GIUSTI (on phone):  Greg frequently gets in with a group of

people that have really radical ideas and apparently, I would say this must

be another one that somehow he has gotten into by, either by, I say FOX

news, or all of those that are really radical.  And he—that‘s where he

comes from.


SCHULTZ:  Hmm.  That‘s just mom talking.  Joining me now is Eric

Burns, who is the president of Media Matters for America.  Mr. Burns, good

to have you with us tonight.  Is that a stretch to think, is that a stretch

to think that righty media would incite people to go out and do stuff like


ERIC BURNS, MEDIA MATTERS FOR AMERICA:  No it‘s absolutely not a

stretch, Ed.  This is what we see from FOX news, from the media elites from

the right wing media infrastructure who profit from this kind of talk every

day.  And I think this gentleman‘s mom is drawing a direct connection I

think most Americans know isn‘t there.  This kind of violent speech that we

see on a daily basis on FOX does not happen in a vacuum.  Last year on his

show, Glenn Beck, 200 episodes, as I said before on this program, 173

episodes he talked about revolution.  Glenn Beck himself had a skit on his

show, where he essentially poisoned the speaker of the house in effigy.  It

should be no surprise to anyone we have a serious threat against the

speaker‘s life and it‘s directly connected to the crazy “Psycho Talk” and

violent  rhetoric we see from FOX news and Right Wing media.

SCHULTZ:  All right here‘s a collection of their wonderful work.  Here

it is.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  So speaker Pelosi, I just wanted to—you going

to drink your wine?  By the way I put poison in your -- 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  When Nancy Pelosi went through those tea partiers,

it was like—what should we analogize this to?  The march through Skokie,

Illinois by the Nazi?  It was deliberately provocative.  They wanted a


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  This woman could lose a game of tick-tack-toe to

an amoebae, for god sake‘s, look at her, she‘s subreptilian.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  The government is full of vampires and they‘re

trying to suck the lifeblood out of the economy.  Yes drive a stake through

the heart of the blood suckers.


SCHULTZ:  Well I don‘t think he likes Democrats or Liberals or anybody

in Washington that has any control at all, when it comes to making laws.

BURNS:  No, he said he‘s going to be a progressive hunter until the

day he dies, Ed.  But you know the real issue is the department of homeland

security released a report that domestic terrorism, domestic terrorism is

the greatest threat to the national security that we face.  And yes, folks

in the Conservative media, this is just a fact, we‘ve had threats on both

leadership from Republican and Democratic side, but this kind of talk is

coming—the vast majority of it from FOX news, from the tea parties that

they sponsor, from Rush Limbaugh, from the folks in the Right Wing media

elite, it‘s a fact can‘t be argued, it can‘t be denied.  There‘s a real

human cost here.  And I wonder if it‘s going to take somebody getting in a

FOX news t-shirt and mowing down, you know people, god forbid, before

executives at FOX and folks at CNN with recent comments we talked about two

days ago regarding Erick Erickson, well take some responsibility because to

date, neither one of these networks have said a single thing about these

incidents and about the violent rhetoric.

SCHULTZ:  Yes, not at all, Eric good to have you on tonight, thanks so


BURNS:  Thank you.

SCHULTZ:  Thanks for the work you do.

Founding editor of the “Huffington Post,” Roy Sekoff with us tonight

here on THE ED SHOW, Roy, the bar has been lowered.  Can anybody raise it

and how do you raise it?

ROY SEKOFF, HUFFINGTON POST:  Well, Ed, first of all, I mean as

somebody who works in the media and who believes in personal

responsibility, I don‘t want to be so quick to buy into the TV made him do

it with this particular guy.  This guy is a hot head, he‘s had a history of

making threats to other people not related to politics.  So I don‘t really

want to necessarily buy into that theme.  However, I will say that by

ratcheting up the violent rhetoric in the imagery, there is no question

that FOX news is like a giant can of gas waiting for a match.

SCHULTZ:  Well we know people respond to what they hear -


SCHULTZ:  Because these tea parties were organized by Right Wing

talkers of America.  Obviously, they respond and they are going to affect

people in a certain way, when they start talking about we need to get these

blanks out of Washington and the venomous stuff they throw out by some

people, it will be taken too far.  Now we‘ve got a threat -


SCHULTZ:  Go ahead.

SEKOFF:  Yes there‘s a lot of suffering out there, Ed, there‘s a lot

of misery, there‘s a lot of legitimate reasons for anger.  And I think what

is happening is people like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin with her gun sites

on her Facebook page, there, they‘re doing something much more cynical than

just playing into that anger and fear, they‘re cashing in on it.  Did you

see the new cover of “Forbes” magazine, the new cover?


SEKOFF:  Glenn Beck is on that cover.  And the story says he made $32

million last year.

SCHULTZ:  Well good for him.

SEKOFF:  Yes but he‘s promulgating it with these conspiracy theory,

and it‘s like, you go over to FOX, and it‘s like a Chinese water torture of

fear mongering with drip, drip, drip of Nazi and race-baiting and socialism

and all these kinds of stuff.  So I think those kinds of things are seeping

into the body politics.

SCHULTZ:  Well there‘s the entertainment factor of it and attracting

an audience and stuff like that.  But when it goes into the hearts and

minds of elected officials knowing they will get picked up by these types

of shows, you have Michele Bachmann out there saying that she wants

Minnesotans armed and dangerous.  How about unarmed and peaceful and do it

through democracy?

SEKOFF:  Well that‘s the thing.  Sarah Palin is telling her followers

on Twitter to reload.  I mean and you know These are the people we‘re

targeting.  And it‘s no surprise that the guy who made the threats to Patty

Murray used that very wording, he said, there‘s a target on your back.  So

I mean there definitely is a cause and effect.  And we see these things

seeping in.  Remember that poll a few weeks ago, Ed, where it was something

like 32 percent of the people thought that—Republicans thought Obama was

doing things Hitler had done and 28 percent felt he was the anti-Christ?  I

mean you know, and even if that poll was a little bit discredited, shrink

those number by 10 percent, you know, drop them down, they are still really

dangerous and troubling numbers.

SCHULTZ:  Well I want to point out in this segment, we just had Ed

Burns on from Media Matters and now you, Roy Sekoff, co-founder of the

“Huffington Post” neither one of you said anything about the government

getting involved and controlling.  And I want to point that out tonight.

SEKOFF:  Oh yes.

SCHULTZ:  No one is saying, that hey, we‘ve got to do something

government-wise on this.  Freedom of speech is a responsibility.  And I

think they‘re misusing it over there, inciting violence.

SEKOFF:  The key is, Ed, there‘s nothing wrong with strong take, I

love it when you bring it strong and the other side bringing strong takes. 

But the question is, are you backing up those takes with facts or are you

backing them up with fantasy and delusion.  When you bring them up with

facts, then it‘s good stuff, when you bring them back with fantasy and

delusion, it becomes dangerous.

SCHULTZ:  Roy Sekoff always a pleasure, good to have you with us.

SEKOFF:  OK Ed, good talking with you.

SCHULTZ:  Now, let‘s get some “Rapid Fire Response” from our panel

tonight on these stories, Oklahoma‘s Senator Tom Coburn thinks it‘s no big

deal that he blocked unemployment benefits to hundreds of thousands of

Americans because he said, it only affects a relatively small amount of


The company in charge of the collapse of the West Virginia mine has

shown total negligence in my opinion, sacrificing worker safety for bigger

profits.  And I want to get our panel‘s take on threats Nancy Pelosi faced

from a FOX news loving psycho.  Joining us tonight, Laura Flanders, author

of “Blue Grit” and host of “GRIT TV” and Michael Graham, radio talk show

host who‘s got a book out, and the author of the book “That‘s No  Angry

Mom, That‘s My Mom.”  Team Obama‘s assault on tea party talk radio


MICHAEL GRAHAM, RADIO SHOW HOST:  And psycho FOX viewer, by the way if

you want to mention that.

SCHULTZ:  OK well let me ask you, Michael, start with you tonight. 

We‘ll go with the Tom Coburn story first.  The unemployment benefit, how

many people does it affect and does his comment have merit in your opinion?

GRAHAM:  Well the whole program, the extending unemployment benefits

have risen to record levels, it affects a lot of people.  It drives

unemployment up, as economists with the federal reserve, as a “Wall Street

Journal” economists and pretty much every legitimate economist including

Paul Krugman points out, the longer you have unemployment benefits, which

is why Europe suffers from its condition of high unemployment. 

SCHULTZ:  So cutting them off is the right thing to do?

GRAHAM:  They should not last forever, there‘s a point you need,

there‘s a point where it‘s too long.  And by the way we are still not

paying for them, which is the point that Senator Coburn is making.

SCHULTZ:  OK what about that, Laura Flanders?

LAURA FLANDERS, GRIT TV:  Well, I hope that Senator Coburn

constituents hear him talk about not very many people affected.  I mean

there are 212,000 people who are not going to be getting their benefits

this week.  And they‘ll get them in a few weeks, it‘s not as if this

extension isn‘t going to get passed, it is, eventually.  But lives will be

turned upside down, communities are going to be the poorer.  Every dollar

spent by those receiving unemployment benefits it goes to local

communities, the private businesses, we‘re talking about closing whole

communities when we cut people off like this.  And it just messing with

people‘s head.  I mean this is the government of no government.  These are

the politicians of no government and they don‘t believe doing the people‘s

business in office or out of office.  They‘re messing with us.  And it‘s

not a few people.  Half a million people almost filing unemployment claims

this week.

SCHULTZ:  Next subject, OK, the situation with the mine  explosion and

the death of those mine workers in West Virginia. Laura, what‘s the

ramification of all of this?  What‘s the remedy to turn this around?

FLANDERS:  Well you put it very strongly at the top of the program. 

We have gotten to a situation where breaking the rules to increase profits

has become business as usual, and it is not just in the minds although it‘s

there as well.  Unfortunately, paying off fines and paying off politicians

has become how companies like this operate.  And I think it‘s time it is as

heinous for a politician to receive campaign contributions from companies

like Massey as it is for Massey to be treating their workers this way.

SCHULTZ:  Michael, do you defend the mine companies?

GRAHAM:  No, absolutely not.  They screw up, they need to pay for it. 

I think it‘s fascinating the fines are so low, it makes more business sense

to ignore them.  It is also fascinating to me how little progress the

unions have made in these mines.  And I love the fact that your guest

earlier said this is why we need card check we need to be able to use union

thugs to coerce people into joining unions when he said well the owner of

the mine came down and talked to the people.

FLANDERS:  These were non-union mines.


GRAHAM:  Exactly, I know. 

FLANDERS:  We‘re talking non-union mines here workers have a quota

they have to produce every day, no wonder there are shortcuts, no wonder—

GRAHAMS:  And why aren‘t unions making progress -

SCHULTZ:  Michael, Michael how would—how would you feel -

GRAHAM:  They aren‘t making progress.

SCHULTZ:  How would you feel if your boss came to you and said if you

don‘t say this on the air, you‘re fired.  You have to make a decision if

you will say it or not.  That Blankenship went down into that mine,

according to the union leader tonight, saying, look, if you vote for this,

you‘re out.  Is that fair?  Is that the free market at work, Michael?

GRAHAM:  I‘d feel the same way as when my union boss organizer came

down and said, we need you to sign this card, the same union. 


FLANDERS:  Come on, let‘s be serious, we‘re talking about losing your



GRAHAM:  Because the united mine workers was allegedly linked to the

shooting and they settled the case in 1993.

FLANDERS:  Comparable -

SCHULTZ:  Is this—I have to ask a question here, hold on.  Michael,

is this the free market at work, when a boss goes down and threatens a


GRAHAM:  Is it a free market at work when the organizer comes in and

threatens the worker on card check.  Let them vote freely—

SCHULTZ:  They can vote -


SCHULTZ:  They‘re just trying to get the vote.  Go ahead, Laura.

FLANDERS:  -- Ed he maybe he doesn‘t know but workers all around this

country know the difference between being able to go to your union

relationship rep and saying, there‘s a  problem with our tunnels, there‘s a

problem with our supply lines and being able only to go to your bosses, say

you have a problem, you‘re out of here in the morning.  It makes all the

difference in the world.

SCHULTZ:  Quickly, we have to get to the Nancy Pelosi story.  Laura

what do you think?  What should be done to people who threaten elected


FLANDERS:  Well you know the FBI is not doing badly here.  They are

putting people away, they are - you know we have created an environment

where people seem to think that radical action like this, crazy talk will

get you, I don‘t know, quick track to Sarah Palin‘s reality show.  Policing

is the honesty here - politicians to talk.

SCHULTZ:  OK all right Michael is Right Wing radio over the top, with

the examples we played?

GRAHAM:  I blame FOX news, in fact,  they‘re the most powerful

broadcast medium in the world because this guy got arrested for the first

time for making threats in 1991.  Oh, my god, they can travel through time!

SCHULTZ:  So telling people we have to have a revolution, all the

things that have been said, that‘s okay, no response?

GRAHAM:  First of all, I believe in free speech.  Second of all, I

occasionally watch MSNBC and I wouldn‘t push the cook barrier too far, Ed

if I were you.

SCHULTZ:  OK what have I said that is cook?

GRAHAM:  Oh I didn‘t say you my friend.  My point is I think—

SCHULTZ:  I think I‘m probably one of the most liberal people on this

network and damn proud of it.  But I‘ll tell you what I don‘t tell people

to go out and support revolutions and I don‘t tell people to we have to

quote throw, you know, throw these bball people out and such stuff as that. 

I think I advocate getting involved peacefully, OK.


FLANDER:  You‘re talking to a guy here who was taken off the air for

saying soprano style somebody should whack the Clinton campaign.  He‘s not

the person to be talking about hate speech, Ed—


SCHULTZ:  Good to have both you with us tonight, coming up, Tiger was

all smiles as he tackled the course for the first time in the masters

today.  Stephen A. Smith will tells you if this is attitude change will

help him make the cut, that‘s next on the ED SHOW stay with us.


SCHULTZ:  It‘s still not too late to let us know what you think.  The

number to dial tonight is 1-877-ED-MSNBC.  Tonight‘s telephone survey

question is do you think Tiger Woods has learned his lesson?  Press one for

yes, press two for know.  Again, the number to dial, 1-877-ED-MSNBC.  We‘re

right back


SCHULTZ:  And in “My Playbook” tonight after almost a five month

absence from golf, Tiger Woods took to the course at Augusta National

today.  He was greeted by friendly cheering fans but a reminder of his

scandal flew over head right as he was teeing of on number one.  Small

plane engine, Tiger, did you mean bootyism?  But that didn‘t seem to bother

the great golfer, birdied three holes and bogeyed three holes and he‘s has

got two eagles.  He is at four under par, two shots off the pace.  Freddie

Couples leads the way at six under.  Tiger is on number 17 right now. 

Joining me now, Stephen A. Smith, Nationally Syndicated talk show host and

columnist for the “Philadelphia Enquirer”.  Rather erratic round but he is

in the hunt Stephen A.


the best in the world.  And despite the fact that he‘s been away for about

five months or so, he‘s just showing you all the numbers that you threw out

there, he‘s eagled twice, he‘s birdied about three or four times, he‘s had

some spectacular moments and other times he‘s been a bit erratic.  Any time

you‘re not out there consistently, that‘s bound to happen.  But he‘s

showing you why he‘s the best in the world. 

SCHULTZ:  It is amazing that he‘s playing this well after no

competition since last November, what did you make of the television


SMITH:  I loved it.  I absolutely thought it was a phenomenal

commercial because I thought it was him manning up and not really evading

the issue per se, he was tackling it head on, better than he did with the

media quite honestly.  I think that any time that you listen to his

father‘s voice, the words that caught me, that really made me pause is when

he said, I want to know what you were thinking, things along those lines. 

What he‘s saying, is that you know what, I‘m not running from this issue,

this is about the advice my father gave me, the kind of stuff did not

follow, I was supposed to be a better man.  I wasn‘t and I am manning up to

it.  And I applaud him for that, I applaud Nike for running the commercial

and to not run from the issue as well.  This is why all the athletes, or

most of them anyway, go to Nike because of stuff like this.

SCHULTZ:  Isn‘t it amazing, though, as much as he‘s been through

counseling and trying to change his life, he comes out and just a machine 

today, like he just finished playing yesterday.  I just - I think he‘s


SMITH:  Of course he is amazing as a golfer.  Nobody ever questioned

that.  His focus is unparalleled, determination, commitment to excellence

in that regard.  In the sport of golf is  unparalleled.  Everybody knows

that, he‘s one of the greatest sportsman of all time in terms of his

willingness to compete and his definite determination to completely

annihilate you. 

SCHULTZ:  Does he - if he is close, within two shots going into

Sunday, does he win it?

SMITH:  If he‘s within two shots, he‘s going to win the tournament. 

I‘m still not going to say he‘s going to win it but if he‘s within two

shots, all bets are off.

SCHULTZ:  Stephen A. great to see you, good to have you on tonight

buddy, thank you.  Coming up, Glenn Beck has gone on a one man holy war

against my next guest because he believes in the radical idea of social

justice, the reverend Jim Wallace.  We‘ll read Beck the good word next. 

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ:  Welcome back to THE ED SHOW and finally tonight, it‘s

apparently not enough for Beck to fear monger about progressives destroying

the country.  Now, he wants to scare you away from going to church.  It‘s

all about his wacko idea that social justice is somehow a bad thing.


GLENN BECK (text):  There are big forces within the faith of different

churches that have joined hands with truly Marxist group.  And it‘s all

under social justice.

Social justice and what was the other one, economic justice.  You see

these - these are code words, these are the Marxist code words.  Look for

the words “social justice” or “economic justice” on your church website. 

If you find it, run as fast as you can.  Am I advising people to leave

their church?  Yes.  If I‘m going to Jeremiah Wright‘s church, yes, leave

your church.


SCHULTZ:  My next guest says that kind of talk should encourage

Christians to leave Beck, not the church.  Let me bring in Jim Wallace,

president of sojourners and author of “, Rediscovering Values on Wall

Street, Main Street, and Your Street.”  Reverend, good to have you on

tonight.  What‘s your response to that commencement?


kind of shake my head.  I mean social justice is integral to biblical

faith.  It‘s at the heart of the gospel the catholic church, the black

church, the main line Protestants, the evangelical—I‘m an evangelical. 

The Pentecostal.  Glenn Beck‘s own Mormon church, social justice is at the

heart of the gospel.  And he says it‘s a perversion of the gospel.  And so

this is a direct attack of the churches.  He‘s picked on me.  But that‘s

kind of silly.  I mean this is about churches and what we teach.  So I

didn‘t know Mr. Beck before all this.  But so I just said, let‘s have a

conversation about this.  I think you‘re making a mistake here.  Let‘s have

a—I didn‘t say debate,  conversation.  Then he said she hammer will fall

on you and the cute little people who work for your organization.  So I‘m

on his black board now.  And you know—

SCHULTZ:  Well I‘m just trying to decipher right from wrong and in

fairness.  They have of course called the president a Marxist and communist

and everything else because of this health care bill.  What does the

Christian faith say about health care and providing for those who need it?

WALLIS:  Well the first words out of Jesus mouth at Nazareth, he said

the Spirit of the Lord is upon me because he has anointed me to bring good

news to the poor, he says, as you‘ve done to the least of these, I was

hungry, thirsty, naked, I was a stranger, I was sick, I was in prison, as

you‘ve done to them, you‘ve done to me.  Healing is at the heart of the

gospel.  You know people can have different views of policies and bills,

and but you know, making 31 million people, bringing them into a system,

most Christian say that‘s a good idea.

SCHULTZ:  Would you say Beck is dazed and confused about this subject?

WALLIS:  Well I mean there are Christian, Republican, Independent,

Democrat, Independent who have different views from the government.  But

social justice, you know a wonderful Bishop, a friend of mine in Latin

America said when I fed the poor, they called me a saint.  When I asked why

people are poor, they called me a communist.  So I think these words of

justice and economic justice are biblical words, the prophets of Jesus. I

wish you would have a conversation with some of us.  And try to say - you

didn‘t mean to say that?  You were talking about -

SCHULTZ:  I don‘t think that‘s the mission.

WALLIS:  -- government.


WALLIS:  But you know this is at the mission of the church.

SCHULTZ:  You bet.

WALLIS:  And all of us believe this.  He really should stop attacking

the churches here.  It‘s not going to be good for him and for his mission. 

It won‘t be good for him.

SCHULTZ:   Reverend good to have you with us tonight.

WALLIS:  Great to see you again.

SCHULTZ:  Telephone survey tonight, I asked do you think Tiger Woods

has learned his lesson?  Fifty three percent of you said yes, 47 percent

said no.  That‘s THE ED SHOW.  We are back tomorrow night.  Chris Matthews

at HARDBALL is next.




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