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The Ed Show for Wednesday, October 12, 2011

Read the transcript to the Wednesday show

Guests: Alan Grayson, Dean Baker, Leo Gerard, Doug Stern, Michael Eric Dyson

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.

The president hammered Senate Republicans today for voting down the
Americans Jobs Act and says that he`s just not going to take no for an
answer. Tonight, we`ll show you exactly what these Republicans voted
against, how many jobs this bill would have created in their home states.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


got together as a group and blocked this jobs bill from passing the Senate.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The president is calling out Republicans and
promising to keep fighting for jobs.

OBAMA: We will not take no for an answer.

SCHULTZ: Former Congressman Alan Grayson will preview the next

approach and it`s focused on something even Ed Schultz would love.

SCHULTZ: Rick Santorum thinks I would love his jobs plan? I`ll let
Rick know why he`s sorely mistaken.

The campaign of deceit to pass John Kasich`s union-busting bill
continues in Ohio. You won`t believe what they`re trying to pull this time
in Ohio.

And new polling shows Herman Cain is the new Republican front runner,
even though he`s pushing garbage like this:

HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Leftist folk in this country
that are black, they`re more racist than the white people.

SCHULTZ: Tonight, Michael Eric Dyson reacts to Herman Cain`s attack
on black liberals.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for

Senate Republicans and two turncoat Democrats -- and that`s exactly
what they are turncoat Democrats -- are standing in the way of creating
millions of Americans` jobs. Late Tuesday night, the Senate stopped the
American jobs bill dead in its tracks.

The 99 percent I think have every reason in the world to be out on the
streets after this vote. Washington is completely dysfunctional because
elected officials, they are brain dead to what the American people really
want and need. It`s no wonder that Congress has a record low approval
rating of 13 percent. Not a single Republican voted to fund schools, build
roads, or give middle class Americans a freaking tax break -- just a little
tax break.

Freshman Democratic Senator Jon Tester along with all-time sellout
Senator Ben Nelson voted against taxing millionaires in their backyard of
Montana and Nebraska respectively. Nelson didn`t vote for the $447 billion
package because, quote, "It represents billions of dollars in new spending
and more taxes."

You know, that reminds me of the old bullet point. So, we got to hold
it right there, folks. This is the, I think, perfect time for liberals to
destroy the tax-and-spend bullet point that the Democrats have had to put
up with for years.

Here`s what the Dems need to do. You`re damn right I`m a tax and
spend liberal. It`s time to tax the top 1 percent and spend it on the
working folk of America who need a job, who need a school, who need some
health care -- all of this.

Yes, I like that. I`m a tax and spend liberal. I want to tax those
who have had all the breaks over the past 30 years and I want to make sure
the working folk of America have a shot.

President Obama is not focused on Nelson or Tester. He`s laying the
blame on the feet of the Republicans.


OBAMA: Last night, even though a majority of senators voted for the
jobs act, the Republican minority blocked this bill from passing the
Senate. They said no to more jobs for teachers. No to more jobs for cops
and firefighters. No to more jobs for construction workers and veterans.
No to tax cuts for small business owners and middle class Americans.


SCHULTZ: President Obama needs to just keep hammering the Republicans
for their record number of filibusters. Lay it out there every day, Mr.

Tonight on THE ED SHOW, we`re making every no vote accountable for the
American jobs they rejected. For the next hour, watch the ticker on the
bottom of the screen to see how many jobs are being obstructed by the
Senate. The numbers come from

California Congresswoman Linda Sanchez nailed the obstructers in the
Senate on my radio show today.


REP. LINDA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: These are not patriots. People
who love this country want to see jobs created.

SCHULTZ: They don`t love this country?

SANCHEZ: No. I don`t think they love this country. They`re not
concerned about the economic well being of the country as a whole.

SCHULTZ: And they are so infatuated with defeating President Obama
that they have -- you would label them as not patriotic?

SANCHEZ: Yes, absolutely.


SCHULTZ: You know, if you had every Democrat talking like that, maybe
there wouldn`t be any Wall Street outcry protests around the country. I
completely agree with Congresswoman Sanchez. These people are not

Now, the people I met in the streets of Chicago and Lower Manhattan --
you know, they do love this country. They want a break. The 99 percent,
they`re the patriots for taking it to the streets to fight for economic and
social justice. Republicans in the Senate, along with Tester and Nelson,
are completely ignoring what the American people really want.

Look at the numbers. According to a new Bloomberg/"Washington Post"
poll: 68 percent of Americans want to raise taxes on the wealthiest
Americans. Over 80 percent of Americans want Congress to protect Social
Security and Medicare and Medicaid. Even Republicans want to tax the top 2
percent and protect the social safety net. The public is with you.

Over in the House, John Boehner praised the Senate for turning their
backs on the American people.


acted in a bipartisan manner to reject the president`s tax increase on job
creators in our country.


SCHULTZ: Bipartisan? So that means that the stimulus package that
President Obama got, that was bipartisan too, right?

Boehner has completely failed to bring one job to America in 10
months. That`s all he`s been crying about. But he hasn`t created

The entire Republican Party is morally corrupt on the jobs issue. All
they want to do is defeat this president. And tan man`s mission to protect
the 1 percent I think is un-American and certainly not focused on the

President Obama is ready to fight for this jobs bill every step of the


OBAMA: We will not take no for an answer. We will keep organizing
and we will keep pressuring and we will keep voting until this Congress
finally meets its responsibilities and actually does something to put
people back to work and improve the economy.


SCHULTZ: You know, there`d been a lot of commentary lately about, you
know, these "Occupy Wall Street" protests that are taking place around the
country. Where is it going? What does it mean? The political angst,
obviously, is there. Who`s going to get the beneficiary of all of this
politically when it comes to the ballot box?

Here`s where it has to start. Now, give the Tea Party some credit.
In the Congress, they saw exactly what was going on with the right wingers
in this country and so they created the Tea Party Caucus.

Don`t you think it`s about time for the Democrats to take a stand and
create the 99 percent caucus? That might be politically tough for the
Democrats because then they would unequivocally have to stand with labor.
And then they would unequivocally have to say we need universal health care
for every American.

Then, of course, they would definitely have to go for the stimulus
package and you`ve already got two senators who don`t want to do that, this
jobs package. And others are saying that they will vote against it.

How much more evidence do lawmakers in Washington have to have before
they recognize what they are doing to this country? It`s like they don`t
believe in American workers. It`s like the only thing that matters is

Get rid of Obama, get rid of the Democrats, we`ll mop this up later.
That is their strategy. And they`ll mop it that way -- just like they`re
mopping the floor with the Postal Service. I`ll have that story later.

It infuriates me. But, now, it`s time for the Democrats to move
forward and capture this. Stand with these protesters. Just don`t just
send out a memo and say we`re with them all the way.

No, you`re not. You`re not. You have to openly castigate these two
senators that have turned their backs on American jobs. You have to go
after your own colleagues who do not stand with these protesters. And you
have to draw a line in the sand and do not waver one bit about what you
will do to bring jobs to America.

And think about what President Obama did when he was candidate Obama.
How many new people were brought into the process, the 20-somethings that
lived with Bush, that lived with Cheney and saw what they did to this
country. And President Obama brings in all these new people and you damn
Democrats all you`ve done is let them down.

A lot of these protesters at Wall Street and around the country are
20-somethings who feel disenfranchised because they were meant to believe
that they could make a difference. And then they see all this obstruction
and then they see Democrats who don`t have the guts to stand up to the
wealthiest Americans in this country and tell them they need to pay more.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: should the Democrats start a 99 percent caucus?
Pattycake, pattycake? Get tough with these people! It`s the country!

Text A for yes, text B for no to 622639 and go to at
We`ll bring you the results later on in the show.

I think the people in the street deserve something from Washington.
Where`s the congressional march to support these people? But that would be
asking too much. Hell, that might -- that might interrupt a lobbyist

Joining me now is former Florida Congressman Alan Grayson, who was a
target of the right wing because he often spoke the way Democrats like him
to hear him speak.

Congressman, great to have you with us tonight.

Is the 99 -- is the 99 percent caucus even feasible? What do you

percent of America wants to do something to solve our problems. You know,
now the choice next year is crystal clear. We have one party that actually
wants to do something to solve our problems, and another party that wants
to do nothing.

You know, the Republicans have adopted the sort of illogical, magical
thinking that if we just do nothing, all of our problems will disappear.
If we close our eyes like babies, then our problems will go away.

And Democrats don`t feel that way. They understand we have to get
them to work. We have to get them health care. We have to recover the
housing market. We have to do the things necessary to get America back on
its feet. And Republicans over and over again want to do nothing.

Honestly I look at what I`m seeing in Washington, D.C. and it seems
the Republican jobs plan is: let us pray.

SCHULTZ: Let us pray is exactly where we are right now.

Eric Cantor mocked the president about the Nelson and Tester position
in the vote. Here it is. Look at it.


REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), MAJORITY LEADER: The Senate`s action last
night proved that the month-long campaign that the White House has been on
to promote the president`s bill failed. And it demonstrated as well that
the president could not even get the necessary support in his own party to
pass the bill.


SCHULTZ: And I hope Tester and Nelson certainly love that smirky
little smile that Cantor had on his face right there.

What should the reaction be moving forward here, Congressman?

GRAYSON: Well, first of all, we have to keep our eye on the ball
here. The ball is to end the misery that most Americans feel today.

How am I going to pay my credit card bill? How am I going to pay my
rent? How am I going to pay my mortgage? How am I going to pay for my
food? How am I going to keep my house?

That`s what Americans are facing right now. Not the political games.

But let`s not be distracted by this -- 96 percent of the Democrats
voted to take charge, to do something to solve these problems or at least
keep them from getting worse. And zero percent of the Republicans -- zero
percent of the Republicans voted to do anything to address our problems.

They really are the party of no. The party of leave me alone. The
party of I don`t care. I just don`t care.

SCHULTZ: Former Congressman Alan Grayson, always a pleasure. Good to
have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

Let`s turn now to economist Dean Baker, cofounder of the Center for
Economic and Policy Research, and author of "The End of Loser Liberalism:
Making Markets Progressive."

Great to have you with us, Mr. Baker.

having me.

SCHULTZ: Will America go into a double-dip recession if we don`t get
a job package soon?

BAKER: Well, it`s not going to a double-dip recession, but it`s going
to be just as bad. Basically, the economy is barely growing fast enough
even to keep pace with the growth of the labor mark. What that means is
unemployment is going to stay as high as it is or possibly even drift
higher. And that`s a pretty horrible story because we`re looking at 9.1
percent unemployment.

We haven`t had this except for a short period of time in 1981, 1982.
Other than that, we haven`t had that since the Great Depression.

So, the idea we`re just going to be sitting here, that`s a pretty
horrible story. I don`t see a double dip. But that`s really not much
cause for celebration.

SCHULTZ: Is there any evidence that taxing millionaires would really
kill job creation?

BAKER: No. You know, it`s kind of incredible when we have these
arguments. We go, you know, look, most of us were alive in the `90s, you
know? We had the Clinton tax rates in effect then.

Most of us were alive back when Reagan was president and tax rate was
50 percent. That was when he lowered it to. And then, of course, it was
70 percent in the `60s. We had 3 percent unemployment.

So, it`s like are we really have -- do we really have to argue this?

SCHULTZ: Tonight, the Senate passed the trade agreements with
Colombia, Panama and also South Korea. And the president is set to -- he`s
all set to sign the bill.

Now, do you think this is going create -- is this a negative or a
positive? What about this?

BAKER: It`s not a negative. It`s not a huge negative. What I find
most annoying is the way this was sold. I mean, President Obama was saying
these are job creators. He knows better. This is just silliness.

The basic story -- and you can make the argument for the agreement. I
personally don`t think they`re good agreements. I think they`re harmful.

But you can make the argument for the agreement. But it`s not a job
creator. The idea would be -- there`s efficiency gains, there`s long run
benefits. The idea that somehow this is going to create jobs in 2011,
2012. That`s not true and he knows that.

And the idea that he would be wasting his time pushing bills like this
when he should be doing nothing but talking about creating jobs.

SCHULTZ: Dean Baker, always a pleasure. Good to have you with us
tonight. Thanks so much.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know what
you think.

One of the presidential candidates called me out by name today
regarding his manufacturing jobs plan. Sometimes I just can`t help myself
from taking the bait.

And the righties in Ohio try to make a great grandmother their
spokesperson in support of Senate Bill 5? But she was saying exactly the

Stay with us. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: The Republican presidential candidates -- well, they have a
credibility problem on jobs. Rick Perry doesn`t have a jobs plan yet.
Mitt Romney has one, but he probably flip-flop on it by the next week.

And Herman Cain -- well, by now everyone knows his plan.


CAIN: My top priority is 9-9-9.


SCHULTZ: Cain and his plan for 9 percent corporate tax, individual
tax, and sales tax would pass Congress. And here`s why.


CAIN: We`ve had an outside firm, independent firm dynamically score
it. And so our numbers will make it revenue neutral.


SCHULTZ: All right. But the paid campaign consultant who scored the
9-9-9 plan told "Politico" it would be doomed to fail.

"The problem with the Big Bang changes like that is they are so alien
to the current system that it would be a great big shock."

Another candidate on the stage last night pointed to a bigger reason
why the 9-9-9 plan is not realistic.


SANTORUM: How many people here are for a sales tax in New Hampshire?
Raise your hand. There you go, Herman. That`s how many votes you`ll get
in New Hampshire.


SCHULTZ: Rick Santorum has his own jobs plan called 000. I call it
free lunch.

And he says it`s a plan I should love? I`ll be the judge of that

Coming up, later, a new NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll has Herman Cain
in the lead of the Republican field.

And right wingers in Ohio are distorting the words of great
grandmother to get support for their union-busting bill. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Now, presidential candidate Rick Santorum has his own plan for job
growth. And he says that I should love it?

The former senator`s plan includes a zero percent corporate tax rate
for manufacturers, zero percent tax on repatriated corporate profits from
overseas, and no regulations on manufacturing.


SANTORUM: That`s the zero-zero-zero approach. And it`s focused on
something that even Ed Schultz would love, which is to get these
manufacturing jobs. If Ed Schultz can support this plan because it does
something about manufacturing, then you can see that industrialist state
Democrats will do the same. And we`ll pass something and we`ll bring the
country together.


SCHULTZ: Well, Senator, I have to give you credit. That is some
grade-A cable news bait. I`ll take it right here.

The problem with your plan is that there is really nothing in there
for the consumer. Where is the consumer tax credit for buying American?
Which of course your party has been against. Where does it address the
trade agreements that have made it easy to ship jobs overseas? In fact,
giving them a lot of incentives to do so?

This plan lets corporations avoid regulations. It rewards them for
taking their trillions by taking their businesses offshore. And it gets no
tax revenue from corporate billionaires. You call it the zero-zero-zero
plan. I call it the free lunch plan.

Joining me tonight is the president of the United Steelworkers
International Union, Leo Gerard.

Mr. Gerard, good to have you with us.


SCHULTZ: I should point out that we invited Santorum on the program
tonight. But we were told he couldn`t make it. He has an open invitation
to come on this program.

Leo, if there was a zero percent tax rate for manufacturing
corporations, would that help create jobs?

GERARD: Absolutely not. We`ve got hundreds of corporations now that
aren`t paying any tax. In fact, many of them are getting huge tax checks
like General Electric and others, getting huge tax rebates.

What this administration has been trying to do is stimulate demand.
What the senator`s or ex-senator`s bait is it doesn`t do anything about
demand. It doesn`t do anything about giving a reward to those who hire
jobs. It doesn`t do anything about domestic content. It doesn`t do
anything about taking away the tax break for companies sending jobs

This is nothing but a smoke and mirrors. This is nothing more than
hide the pea. And I don`t know any company that has ever created a job
when they repatriated funds in about 2006.

Let`s not forget -- I always worry about economic amnesia. They
repatriated funds in 2006. In fact, it didn`t create any jobs. We lost a
bunch of jobs when pharmaceuticals moved their jobs to Puerto Rico.

SCHULTZ: Yes. When it comes to regulations, most businesses say
regulations don`t hurt growth. In fact, a small business majority poll
from the summer showed it was only considered a concern to 13 percent of
business owners.

Can you give an example of how regulation has hurt manufacturing in
this country?

GERARD: I don`t know any examples where regulation has hurt
manufacturing. I`m fascinated, Ed, by the fact that the Republican
candidates are coming out as if regulations are a big hurdle. The
regulations we have now except for the banking regulations are the
regulations we had under George Bush.

Remember the mine disasters where all the miners got killed? We tried
to bring in some reform of the Mining Safety Act. The Republicans blocked

These guys are talking about repealing the Clean Air Act, repealing
the Clean Water Act, repealing the kind of safety and health legislation,
repealing food protection. I mean, what kind of nonsense is that?

I don`t know any employer who has created a job because there was too
much or didn`t create a job because there was too much regulation. The
idea is that I`ve been saying on your show and many other places, the issue
is demand.

We need to put people back to work. We need to raise their standard
of living. We`ve got to raise what we`ve been calling the minimum wage
which is the entry level wage where people enter the workforce. And we`ve
got to raise demand and people will buy the products we`re making.

And we`ve got to stop -- totally stop giving companies tax breaks when
they move jobs offshore. I couldn`t think of anything more ridiculous.

SCHULTZ: Yes, why would we allow companies to bring their businesses
back after making trillions in profits without paying something? I mean,
to repatriate the money at zero expense does nobody any good because
there`s no guarantee.

What it`d have to be tied to just how many jobs they actually create
with that money they bring back?

GERARD: I would not -- I would not sort of -- I don`t know. I`m not
sure what the right word is. I wouldn`t be angry -- I`m trying to choose
my words without being nasty.

I wouldn`t be angry about having a discussion about if there`s a way
to reward job creation. But simply to give people the money back with no
guarantees they`re going to get jobs. We did this in 2006 and, in fact, we
lost jobs.

So, if they wanted to sit down with the president and have a
discussion about for every job you create you can bring back this many
dollars, that`s a totally different discussion. But we don`t hear them
saying that. Some of them want to go to zero tax if you bring it back.
Some of them want to go to 5 percent.

And the reality is if there was demand here, they`d be hiring. And
that`s what this president is trying to do.

What we`ve now got is the party of no. The party of I don`t give a
darn. Saying I don`t care if you`re unemployed. I`m not going to help

They`re doing everything they can to stop this president.

My view, Ed, is this. We`ve got a Republican Party on all levels
prepared to have millions of people out of work so they can try and get one
man`s job. And we need to focus on.

He`s trying to get people back to work. And they`re trying to get his

SCHULTZ: Leo Gerard of the Steelworkers International -- great to
have you with us. Thanks so much.

GERARD: Thank you. My pleasure.

SCHULTZ: Last night`s debate was another poor showing for Rick Perry.
He blamed President Obama for more than 30 years of skyrocketing income
inequality? The governor`s in "The Zone."

And a county in Georgia wants to put convicted criminals in charge of
keeping their citizens safe when it comes to firefighting -- anything to
save money. That`s coming up in my playbook.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in "Psycho Talk" tonight -- Texas Governor Rick Perry
doesn`t give a damn about the massive inequality in this county. His
attitude was on full display during the Republican debate last night.


KAREN TUMULTY, WASHINGTON POST: Governor Perry, over the last 30
years, the income of the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans has grown by
more than 300 percent. And yet we have more people living in poverty in
this country than at any time in the last 50 years.

Is this acceptable? And what would you do to close that gap?

PERRY: The reason we have that many people living in poverty is
because we got a president of the United States that`s a job killer.
That`s what`s wrong with this country today. You have a president who does
not understand how to create wealth.

He has over-taxed, over-regulated the small business men and women to
the point they`re playing off people. This president, I will suggest to
you, is the biggest deterrent to getting this country back on track.


SCHULTZ: Wasn`t the question: poverty, is it acceptable and what
would you do? Rick Perry totally blew off the question. He was asked if
the income equality in America was acceptable. And he was asked what would
he do to close this wealth gap in America.

But he responded with a generic, factually incorrect attack on
President Obama. Rick Perry doesn`t see a problem with the income gap.
And it`s not a problem for him personally. You see, his personal worth is
1.1 million dollars.

But here`s the reality for the rest of the country. Over the last 50
years, the 400 richest taxpayers have gone from paying an effective federal
tax rate of 50 percent to paying less than 17 percent, while the rate for
average Americans has gone up.

And if you watch this show regularly, you`ll recognize my favorite
chart. It reflects the debate question Perry ignored last night. Since
1979, the top one percent has gotten richer and richer, while the income
average of Americans has barely changed. That`s the blue line down at the

But Perry seems to think that President Obama is responsible for the
last 30 years of growing income inequality. Well, let`s do some research.
Here is Obama in 1979 playing high school basketball, and according to
Perry putting his master plan in motion to create the largest wealth gap
since the 1920s.

The economy was already feeling the influence of Barack Obama at his
1979 high school graduation. And this 1979 hug from Obama`s grandmother
was apparently powerful enough to slash tax rates for the rich.

Once again, Rick Perry made a fool of himself in the debate last
night. For him to respond to a serious question about closing the income
gap with a canned attack on President Obama is bush league Psycho Talk.

Right wing dirty tricks in Ohio. They can`t handle the truth about
their legislation Senate Bill 5, so they distort the message of a great
grandmother. That`s next.

And later, Herman Cain says liberals in the black community are racist
for questioning his politics. Michael Eric Dyson will have something to
say about that. You`re watching THE ED SHOW on MSNBC. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. The right wing is so desperate
to keep Senate Bill 5 in Ohio, they have literally twisted the words of a
great grandmother. This is no exaggeration.

You see, there are two ads out there on Senate Bill 5 as the battle
ground heats up. One is the real thing. And the other is a lie. Here`s
the real thing, using the testimonial of a great grandmother, Marlene


MARLENE QUINN, OHIO VOTER: When the fire broke out, there wasn`t a
moment to spare. If not for the firefighters, we wouldn`t have our Zoe
today. That`s why it is so important to vote no on Issue 2.

Issue 2 makes it illegal to negotiate for enough firefighters to do
their job. And these firefighters, they know what they need as far as
equipment and manpower.

How many of those politicians in Columbus have fought a fire? Fewer
firefighters can mean the difference between life or death. That`s why I`m
voting no on Issue 2.


SCHULTZ: Now, here`s the lie commercial from a group calling itself
Building A Better Ohio.


QUINN: When the fire broke out, there wasn`t a moment to spare. If
not for the firefighters, we wouldn`t have our Zoe today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s right. By voting no on Issue 2, our
safety will be threatened. Without Issue 2, communities will need to lay
off hard working firefighters to pay for the excessive benefits of other
governance. Issue 2 protects our communities from losing those who protect

QUINN: Fewer firefighters can mean the difference between life and

UINIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vote yes on Issue 2.


SCHULTZ: Righties will do anything to win, won`t they? Marlene Quinn
obviously opposes Senate Bill 5, saying it could make the difference
between life or death. In a statement she said "I think it`s dishonest and
down right deceitful that they would use footage of me to try to play
tricks and fool voters. I feel violated," she says.

A lawyer for Building Better Ohio said that the group did nothing
wrong. But the ad is so obviously misleading, 30 television stations
pulled it from their air waives in Ohio.

The governor of Ohio, John Kasich, told the Associated Press that the
ad was just fine. And remember, even when Senate Bill 5 was being pushed
through the legislature, Ohio Republicans were strong arming people. They
yanked a fellow Republican from the committee when he opposed the bill.

And the right wing has attempted to shorten early voting in Ohio to
suppress low income voters who largely oppose Senate Bill 5, by the

Let`s bring in Ohio firefighter Doug Stern. Mr. Stern, good to have
you with us tonight.

DOUG STERN, OHIO FIREFIGHTER: Thank you for having me.

SCHULTZ: You bet. This pretty much illustrates the intensity of this
fight in Ohio. Have you spoken with Marlene Quinn and what did she say?

STERN: Well, I had the opportunity to yesterday morning, to sit down
with Marlene a little bit. When I sat down, we were talking a little bit
about what happened. And we were getting her to sign the papers that we
could send to have her voice heard that she opposes Senate Bill 5 and Issue

She had not yet seen the commercials. So she knew what she was
signing. I wanted to show her the commercial. While we were sitting
there, while she was watching it, she actually started crying.

She turned to over to me and she said, I`m sorry. I`m sorry I got you
guys into this. I`m sorry I let the firefighters down. That really hit me
hard, because here`s this great grandmother who only wanted to support the
firefighters in the best interests of her neighborhood, of her community,
of her city.

We`ve got Columbus politicians who underhandedly take her words and
her image. They didn`t do anything to rebut her image. They used her
image against her, with words that she never meant to say.

SCHULTZ: Doug, what`s your reaction to this group twisting her words
about how firefighters touched had her life so personally?

STERN: I`m angry, Ed. I think it`s safe to say the 10,000
firefighters -- professional firefighters in Ohio are angry too. We can
take it. We`re big boys. We`re big girls. We knew when we got into this
fight that the slings and arrows were coming at us.

We never expected them to come at one of our supporters like this,
somebody that was just, like I said before, doing what was best for her
community. They went above and beyond. This is below the belt.

But it`s really not shocking. If you look at the way they`ve
disrespected public employees and the middle class from the beginning of
this, they locked us out of the state house.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Does this law help or hurt firefighters?

STERN: I can`t believe anybody could look at this law and think that
it helps.

SCHULTZ: As you understand it, I mean, this is bad for your
profession, bad for public safety.

STERN: Well, Ed, it`s bad for everybody. Because we come to
conclusions. We come to resolution with our city, with our employer, by
sitting down at the table together. We`ve resolved everything from
financial issues to safety issues together.

And that word is important, together, because without collective
bargaining, there is no togetherness. There`s no working towards a common
goal. You know, we sit down -- my kid said it best. It`s the city saying
maybe at the table. They know what maybe means if they hear when we`re
out. When we get home, maybe means no.

For some reason, the Columbus politicians don`t think we can
understand that.

SCHULTZ: Doug Stern, do you see plenty of momentum building to get
rid of this law in the November election? It`s Issue Number 2 on the
ballot. You`re advocating a no vote. Is the momentum building?

STERN: I think it is, Ed. And I think this stunt this week by
Building A Better Ohio has resolved firefighters more so than ever to get
out and get the no vote on Issue 2. They`re canvassing. They`re going
door to door more than I`ve seen before, because they see what happened.
They don`t want our voice to be silenced or our voice to be changed, like
they changed Marlene`s voice in that commercial.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Well, the Associated Press asked the governor,
Governor Kasich, what he thought of it. He thought it was just fine.
What`s your response to that?

STERN: You know, the governor can say whatever he wants. And he`s
certainly entitled to his opinion. I think what we`re going to see on
November 8th is the opinion of the people of Ohio is going to be no on
Issue 2, because they don`t stand by to let these kind of cheap shots
happening at one of their citizens.

SCHULTZ: All right, Doug Stern, good to have you with us tonight.
Thanks for what you do. Ohio firefighter Doug Stern.

Speaking of firefighters, officials in Georgia -- see, what they want
to do is save money by putting prison inmates in charge of these duties.
That`s in the Playbook next. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. You know, being in this
business, when you do a show every night, there`s always one or two stories
that you`re going to come across that you`re going to be a heck of a lot
more passionate about or feel strongly about than maybe some other stories.

This is one of those stories for me. Tomorrow, Republicans will be
one step closer to achieving their goal of destroying the United States
Postal Service. It`s really a remarkable accomplishment the way they have
done this.

First, a Republican-controlled Congress, the lame duck session of the
Congress passed a law in 2006, before Nancy Pelosi got the gavel as Speaker
of the House, that forced the Postal Service to prefund 75 years of pension
and health care benefits in a ten year window.

What business does that? That law has put an unbelievable, an
enormous and unnecessary financial strain on an organization that does not
take one damn dime in taxpayer dollars. You do not pay for the Post
Office. Only if you use it.

Now Congressman Darryl Issa is co-sponsor a bill that will force
thousands of layoffs and restructure how the Post Office does business.
His committee will vote on it tomorrow. And it`s expected to pass. To
hammer their message home, the committee`s Republican staff produced this
video to scare taxpayers. Check it out.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the Postal Service stops paying, retired
Postal workers still get benefits. The law says someone has to pay. The
question is who? The answer is you. And that`s a bailout.


SCHULTZ: And you wonder why I can`t stand Republicans? This idea of
a bailout is just more right wing fear mongering garbage. Here is the
truth. The legislation will impact thousands of workers; 120,000 workers
across America will be cut from the Postal Service for no reason at all.
It will hurt small towns and rural communities all across this country.

It is a raw deal for workers. It`s a raw deal for rural America. And
we sit here and just watch the lawmakers tear apart the infrastructure of
this country.

Think about this. You`re running a business and the Congress has come
along and told you that you have to fund health care and pension for the
next 75 years in a ten year window.

Darryl Issa, did you run your business like that? You know this is a
government takeover and a real strong governmental push to the Post Office
to get rid of employees, to force it to the private market, which is not
going to be able to service rural America.

This country`s losing its heart and soul when you have stories like
this. There`s no reason for it. No reason for it.

Coming up, the state of Georgia wants prisoners to take the place of
firefighters. Did you hear that? You won`t want to miss this. Stay with


SCHULTZ: And in my Playbook tonight, we can add the state of Georgia
to list of states trying to balance their budgets on the backs of those who
keep us safe. Authorities in Camden County, Georgia, say they can save
500,000 dollars a year by using prison inmates to fight fires. The plan
would use convicted criminals from another county where a similar program
has been up and running for two years now.

Georgia isn`t the first state to use prison labor to fight fires.
California has about 4,000 firefighting inmates. But in that state, they
mainly fight wildfires and only work under -- only work with other inmates,
under the supervision of a guard.

Now in Georgia, here`s what they want to do. The inmates would be
integrated into existing fire houses. They would be supervised by a
firefighter instead of a guard. They would respond to all types of
emergencies, including house fires.

Inmates who qualify for the job include those -- would be those who
have committed crimes like theft, drug offenses. Supporters of the plan
say it`s so cost effective because one prisoner can take the place of three
firefighters, since inmates can work around the clock and don`t get days

But some worry using inmates will risk the safety of firefighters and
people they protect. Not to mention the policy is extremely disrespectful
to the dangerous work firefighters do every single day.

Just another story about how America`s infrastructure and respect for
workers is just getting chipped away at daily.

Herman Cain says President Obama has never been a part of the black
experience in America. Michael Eric Dyson will weigh in on that and much
more next.


SCHULTZ: And tonight in our survey, I asked you should the Democrats
start a 99 percent caucus? Ninety eight percent of you said yes; two
percent of you said no.

Coming up, Herman Cain continues to disparage black liberals. Michael
Eric Dyson on race and the Republican party next.


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, Herman Cain says race is a non-issue
for the Republicans in his campaign. And yet once again, Cain is out
making racially-charged accusations.

The Republican front runner went on to discuss race with talk show
host Neal Boortz, you know, the same who called victims of Hurricane
Katrina parasites and New Orleans a welfare city. Here`s what Cain had to
say about some of his African-American critics.


leftist folk in this country that are black, they`re more racist than the
white people that they`re claiming to be racist.

NEAL BOORTZ, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yeah, I like the word bigoted.

CAIN: Bigoted, OK. So that`s exactly what that is.


SCHULTZ: Hard to believe that Cain would continue an interview with a
guy who thinks the words racist and bigoted are interchangeable. But Cain
didn`t want to miss out an opportunity to take a shot at President Obama.
The pizza man says that there would be no contest in a debate with the
commander in chief.


CAIN: I can even talk about foreign policy deeper than he can.
Immigration, every issue, Neal.

BOORTZ: Oh, don`t forget the black experience in America, which he`s
never been a part of.

CAIN: He`s never been part of the black experience in America. I can
talk about that. I can talk about what it really meant to be po before I
was poor. He can`t.


SCHULTZ: Joining me now is MSNBC political analyst, professor of
sociology at Georgetown University, and author of "Can You Hear Me Now,"
Michael Eric Dyson. Professor, good to have you with us tonight.

Last time I checked, President Obama did not grow up wealthy. Am I
missing something here? How is President Obama not a part of the black

assertion yet made by presidential contender Mr. Cain. He seems willing to
say anything in order to curry white favor.

First of all, he`s got to be instructed by Neal Boortz about the
similarity and interchangeability of bigoted and racist. People have said
that in order to be racist, you have to exercise power over a significant
group of people that you demonize.

And so now he`s taking lessons in racism from Neal Boortz, but he is
trying to say he`s more intelligent than and informed than President Obama,
and trying to suggest that Obama was not the -- a son of a poor mother,
that he was a single -- he lived in a single parent household with his
mother, that he was reared under obviously challenging conditions.

And then, of course, having experience as a black man. Had Mr. Cain
read his book, his autobiographical narrative talks about his experiences
as a black man in America, and his refusal to, by the way, Ed -- to look
away from his black identity, but to fully embrace it. So I have no idea
what Mr. Cain is speaking about.

SCHULTZ: It`s interesting. The "Washington Post" is pointing out
that candidate Cain has brought up race more times than Barack Obama did as
a candidate. Is there a strategy here, in your opinion, or is he just
trying to convince Republicans of something?

DYSON: There is a strategy here. That is to say -- to make white
Republicans feel that they are not somehow the bearers of an enormously
complicated tradition, one would say very problematic, in regard to black
people. Mr. Cain is wiping away all of the issues in terms of immigration,
in terms of welfare reform, in terms of economic inequality, in terms of
employment, in terms of health care, in terms of the prison industrial
complex -- all of the racial disparities that prevail, Mr. Cain doesn`t
want to address within the arch of Republican ideology.

So what does he do? He absolves them of any responsibility, and
suggests that the real racists are those of us who point to the persistence
of racism and the malignancy of race in the body politic.

SCHULTZ: Is this a political ploy to get attention? Or do you think
he really believes this stuff. Because race is such a volatile issue in
our culture. Any time somebody brings it up, it is an attention grabber.

He has garnished a great deal of publicity talking about race. Is it
a political strategy for him as a candidate, in your opinion?

DYSON: I think so, Ed. Let`s be honest. When it comes to Cain --
when it comes to race, Cain ain`t able. He`s not able to brilliantly
engage the issue of race. He doesn`t talk about it with nuance. He
doesn`t talk about it with sensitivity.

He`s using it as a strategy to try to suggest that he`s the figure
that`s most informed about it. And what his information will be is to
dismiss it, to suggest that America has overcome -- we`ve arrived at the
promised land, and that most people in America will not be held back as a
result of their racism -- of racism, or of their race. As a result, he
wants to give the Republican party the gift of absolution.

SCHULTZ: And in some polls, he`s already the front runner. Michael
Eric Dyson, thanks for your time always. That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed

"THE LAST WORD" with Lawrence O`Donnell starts right now. We`ll see
you back here tomorrow night.


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