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PoliticsNation, Tuesday, October 18

Read the transcript from the Tuesday show

Guests: Sen. Robert Menendez, Ed Rendell, Michael Steele, Michael Moore

REV. AL SHARPTON, HOST: Hey, Republicans, you thought one was hard to
handle. How about the double team?


president or the Republican president. I`m the president.

we`re campaigning. We sure as heck are campaigning. We`re campaigning to
change this environment.


SHARPTON: They are talking about jobs. Just keep attacking the bus,


SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): The president is riding around on a bus.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ): I`ve never seen an uglier bus.

SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R-TN): $1 million Canadian-made bus.


SHARPTON: Most Americans want the jobs bill we`re pushing for. Sen.
Robert Menendez, live tonight, on Republicans getting desperate, from
occupy Wall Street to occupy everywhere. But the right still doesn`t get


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not the American -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dividing our nation.


SHARPTON: Michael Moore on the power and possibility of thunder from
the left. Plus, the chairman, Ed Rendell and Michael Steele on the GOP
debate in Vegas. Here`s a question. Can what happens in Vegas stay in
Vegas for good? Just wondering.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is going on?




Welcome to POLITICS NATION. I`m Al Sharpton. Tonight`s lead - the
issue is jobs. So why are Washington Republicans still having the wrong
conversation? The president today urged Republicans to put the American
people first, not their own politics.


OBAMA: But these members of Congress - they work for you. And if
they are not delivering, it`s time you let them know. You`ve got to get on
the phone or pay them a visit or write them a letter or tweet, whatever you
do, and remind them to do the right thing.

Remind them of what`s at stake here. Remind them that, "No, we
can`t," is no way to face tough times.


SHARPTON: Republicans, this is not the time to say, "No, we can`t,"
not when the president is putting forth a plan that gets teachers and first
responders back to work. It`s a plan that 75 percent of Americans support.

And guess what? So does 63 percent of your own party - 63
percent. Remember, all of that talk you were giving us about the people`s
business. Well, now`s the time to act. That`s exactly why the vice
president is also out on the road.


BIDEN: This isn`t politics. This is politics 101 in the sense that
we`re trying to get something done. The president said it best. We have
13 more months to argue politics, but in 13 months, tens of millions of
people will have their lives altered. We don`t have time to wait.


SHARPTON: This administration knows we can`t afford to wait. Jobs
are what we need to be talking about. But back in Washington, Republicans
are just stuck in attack mode.


MCCONNELL: The president of the United States is trying to use his
displeasure with Washington for political gain. The president should speak
- the president`s policies haven`t worked as advertised that President
Obama himself put in place.

The president got everything he wanted. President Obama demanded
- the president`s response. The president has demanded. Now, the
president is riding around on a bus. The president should drop his


SHARPTON: By the end of that speech Mitch McConnell, the Republican
leader in the Senate, has slammed the president by name 23 times.

That`s not contributing to the jobs conversation. Well, maybe
because he doesn`t really care about fixing the economy. After all, he did
say this -


MCCONNELL: Our top political priority over the next two years should
be to deny President Obama a second term.


SHARPTON: Joining me now is Sen. Robert Menendez, Democrat from New
Jersey. He joined with other Democrats today to urge Congress to pass the
first portion of the president`s jobs bill. Thank you for coming on the
show tonight.

SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D-NJ): Good to be with you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: What will it take to get this bill passed, senator?

MENENDEZ: Well, I hope voices from across the country. This is
something that should be clearly bipartisan. Teachers, 400,000 educators
that we`d save for our children`s classrooms across this country.

And we`ve seen from parents across the country, and in my home
state of New Jersey, who have seen those classroom sizes rise and many of
the critical courses be no longer offered.

About putting first responders, police and fire fighters, how
quickly we forgot that on September 11th, that fateful day, those who
responded was not the federal government. It was local police and fire
fighters to that tragedy. So we need to put them back on the beat as well.

SHARPTON: Now, this - (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Just so people understand
it, Senator. This bill that we now have before the Senate, because they
would not give the votes needed to have the whole bill - so now we`re going
piece by piece, and this first piece are first responders and teachers.

This is what the Republicans are threatening to say no to as
you`re laying out the first responders that we depend on.

MENENDEZ: Absolutely. This is the Teachers and First Responders Back
to Work Act. We need to take teachers off the unemployment line back in
the classroom. We need to take fire fighters and police officers off the
unemployment line and back on the beat and protecting our communities.

I remember, Rev. Sharpton, how all of the members of Congress
after September 11 wanted to take their pictures with police and fire
fighters. We call them heroes. They are heroes.

We need to respond to that by making sure they are back at work
protecting us. And we need to get the teachers back in our classroom
educating children so the nation can be competitive in the future.

That`s what this is all about. And as you pointed out so well,
75 percent of Americans say, yes, this is a good idea. Sixty-three percent
of Republicans say, yes, this is a good idea. And we pay for all of this
by 0.5 of one percent surtax on millionaires and those above $1 million.

SHARPTON: Well, you know what`s baffling to me. When we talk about,
Senator, that the 75 percent, three-quarters of the American public poll
wants this, even 63 percent, almost two-thirds of Republicans, why would
this be a hard win?

But then, when I look at the fact that when we look at this poll,
which is very startling, this poll that says - the question was asked, "Do
you hope the president succeeds or fails?"

Among Republicans, 39 percent said they hope he succeeds. Fifty-
one percent say he will fail. We`ve become so partisan that against the
interests of our country, first responders and teachers - I mean, you can`t
get more vital than that. Fifty-one percent are saying, "I`d rather see
the president fail." I mean, it is amazing to me.

MENENDEZ: Well, that`s what happened here in the last two years.
Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, has said, "My number one priority
is to make Barack Obama a one-term president."

And then, he goes to work every day to ensure that happens by
stopping passage in the United States Senate by use of that procedure we
call the filibuster where you need a super-majority of the Senate to pass
anything, not the simple majority we used to learn growing up that 50-plus
one is a majority.

Here in the Senate, he has made it 60. And so the result of that
is that very little gets passed here. And that`s a way of effectuating
that Barack Obama be a one-term president.

The problem is you`re not hurting Barack Obama. You`re hurting
the country. And that`s what`s at stake, and that`s why we should pass
this bill to get teachers our teachers back into the classroom and our
police and firefighters back on the beat.

SHARPTON: Well - but hold the presses because Eric Cantor has put
out. He is going to make a major speech on Friday and all of us can`t
wait. And in fact, we tried to find out in advance what he`s going to say.

This may shock and amaze you, but let me give you the forecast
from one of his top aides. One of his aides say, and I`m quoting, "He`s
going to speak" - this is what the aide told "Politico" - "on how we can
make sure that people at the top stay there."

Sounds like a confession in the police station to me when you`ve
been charged with taking people`s money and giving it to the rich.

MENENDEZ: Well, it certainly isn`t about the conversation that I
thought he said he was going to have about income inequality in the
country, which has risen dramatically.

Middle class families are struggling harder than ever before.
And that started before this president took office.

And reality is, is what we were left behind with a - not a great
recession, but a near depression - has been what we`re working out of. But
we want to help those middle class working families and those struggling to
get into the middle class.

You don`t do it by having them sacrifice at every turn and then
say to those at the very top that Mr. Cantor is quoted as saying there or
his staff is quoted as saying, "Let`s make sure you stay at the very top
while the rest of America is challenged and the rest of America has to

SHARPTON: And you know, what is so, to me, humiliating to people that
need jobs, need relief, that have nothing to do with the beltway debate or
media debate, none of that, that are really trying to make ends meet,
seriously trying to figure out how they are going to get through this, and
we`re playing these destructive games.

Lack at all these Republicans that all they are talking about is
the president`s bus. I don`t care if he was riding a tractor.

If we`re talking about jobs, why are we obsessing on the
president`s bus - a bus, by the way, that was the same that McCain used and
that they made two for the Republican candidate this time.

But why are we talking about the vehicle rather than talking
about what we are riding in hopes to achieve? Watch what Republicans are
saying, Sen. Menendez.

MENENDEZ: Well, you know -


MCCONNELL: Now, the president is riding around on a bus.

MCCAIN: A bus tour that the president is on, and a lot of it is
centered around the bus. I didn`t need a bus. Now, there has been another
bus purchased for whoever the Republican nominee is. The Republican
nominee may not want a bus.

ALEXANDER: We have the president traveling around the country in a
million dollar Canadian-made bus.


SHARPTON: Senator, if he got on a bicycle, would they then vote to
give the teachers and first responders jobs?

MENENDEZ: You know, Rev. Sharpton, if in fact we have the cooperation
of Republicans in the Congress, the president wouldn`t have to go on the
road to sell to the American people what they want and get them to get
their members of Congress to act responsibly so there wouldn`t be any need
to go on the road.

The only reason that the president is on the road is because they
are intransigent and convinced that the way they get to achieve power and a
majority in the Congress and the presidency of the United States is to have
the president fail.

So the president is talking directly to the American people. And
all this other talk - you know, it`s the old story about a lawyer. If he
has facts, he argues the facts. If he has the law, he argues the law.

And if he doesn`t have the facts or law on the side, he bangs on
the table and creates a distraction. This is all a distraction.

SHARPTON: That`s all it is. Sen. Menendez, thank you for coming on
the show tonight.

MENENDEZ: Thank you.

SHARPTON: And thanks for fighting for the jobs bill in the Senate,

MENENDEZ: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Ahead, Willard "Mitt" Romney proves again he hasn`t changed
since his CEO days. You won`t believe what he`s saying about the
foreclosure crisis.

Plus, Herman Cain`s electrical fence problem won`t go away.
Guess the joke`s on him. And occupy Wall Street versus the tea party.
It`s the debate raging for a month, and now, the president weighs in.


OBAMA: In some ways, they are not that different from some of the
protests that we saw coming in from the tea party.


SHARPTON: Michael Moore Responds exclusively here tonight. You`re


SHARPTON: What happens in Vegas definitely won`t be staying there.
News today for the Republican frontrunners that may leave them with a
hangover tomorrow. That`s next.


SHARPTON: The GOP frontrunners will need more than luck in Vegas
tonight. In Nevada, Willard made very clear who he is fighting for.
Here`s his take on the foreclosure crisis.


CANDIDATE: Don`t try and stop the foreclosure process. Let it run its
course and hit the bottom, allow investors to buy homes, put renters in
them, fix the homes up and let it turn around and come back up.


SHARPTON: Don`t try and stop the foreclosure process? He doesn`t
want to help people struggling to stay in their homes?

I guess I shouldn`t be surprised. After all, he`s having no
problem keeping his $12 million house in California. He just wants to make
it bigger.

And then, there`s now famous picture of Willard as CEO of Bain
Capital. But he is not the only one with the new credibility problem.

Herman Cain seemed to have learned a little something about flip-
flopping. His idea of an electrified border fence has exploded in


fence, 20 feet high with barbed wire, electrified with a sign on the other
side that says it can kill you.

That`s a joke. I`ve also said America needs to get a sense of humor.
That`s a joke, OK?

I don`t apologize for using a combination of a fence, and it might be
electrified. I`m not walking away from that. I just don`t want to offend


SHARPTON: So he`s for it, then it`s a joke, then he`s for it again.
These guys must be sharing the same campaign notes. No wonder they are the
Republican leaders.

Joining me now, Ed Rendell, former Pennsylvania governor and NBC
News political analyst and Michael Steele, former chairman of the
Republican National Committee and an MSNBC analyst. Thank you for being
here tonight.

Good to be with you, rev.

SHARPTON: Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael.

STEELE: Oh, geez.

SHARPTON: How can Romney say he feels for the 99 percent when he says
something like that about foreclosures? And before you start spinning, and
you`re going to need a whole group of spinners to spin this one.

But before you do it, Nevada let me show you this, where they are
debating tonight.

STEELE: Right.

SHARPTON: Nevada is number one, the highest foreclosure rate in the
nation. So he goes to the state with the highest foreclosure rate in the
nation, and he says let the foreclosures run its course.

Let the process do it so the investors can buy up the properties,
put some renters in it and make money.

STEELE: OK. That`s what he said. So what`s - what`s your problem
with it?

SHARPTON: OK. Thank you. I thank you, Mr. Steele. We`ll play that
back as a concession speech.

STEELE: No, no. Rev, you didn`t me a question.


SHARPTON: Michael, I gave you your chance.

STEELE: No, no, no, Rev.

SHARPTON: Mr. Rendell, do you have a problem with that?

think we should let Michael respond. But let me start off by -

SHARPTON: He gave his response.

STEELE: No, I didn`t.

SHARPTON: He wants to know why I have a problem with that.

RENDELL: Michael, listen to me for just a second.

STEELE: Sure, go ahead.

RENDELL: First of all, whether what Gov. Romney said makes sense in a
macroeconomic sense or not - I don`t think it does - but it ignores human
pain. It ignores suffering of U.S. citizens.

Look, he was a good governor. I served with him for several
years. He was a good governor. He`s obviously an intelligent guy, but
he`s tone deaf. It`s the reason I don`t think he`ll ever get elected

The American people want their neighbors to be able to preserve
their right to own a home up to the very end. They want every chance.

STEELE: Right.

RENDELL: And ironically, Al, this morning, Beau Biden was on "MORNING
JOE" outlining a program that several attorneys general all across the
country are doing which says before the foreclosure takes place, there has
to be mediation.

The bank has to have somebody there who can renegotiate the terms
of the mortgage agreement to give one last chance to people who deserve it
to stay in their homes.

And that`s what we should be doing as a country. Home ownership
is the most sacred of all American rights. And to not understand what that
means to people and families means you`re absolutely out of step with the
American people.

SHARPTON: Michael, that`s why I`m saying if we`re in a state that has
the record on foreclosures, forget whether you and Mr. Willard who ran Bain
knows business.

I`m looking to you who offer to lead the country and your answer
to me is let the process continue to take my house, so (UNINTELLIGIBLE) can
take my house and rent it out.

STEELE: But Reverend - but Reverend, this was the point of my asking
you what was your point because you set this up very nicely to try to
skewer Willard, as you affectionately call him, but you didn`t complete the
rest of the foreclosure story.

Remember, it was then-candidate Obama who made very clearly what
his administration would do in this regard. And yet, reports out today are
clearly indicating that the administration has not followed through.

It has not put in place the complete foreclosure process, and
that`s what Romney was talking about. If the administration is saying it`s
going to take the lead on this, then let the process fold itself out so we
can get to the bottom of those who put the bad loans in place, get to the
bottom of dealing with those people who have snookered people into these
bad loan situations.

So you`ve got to round this out. You`re not going to get away
with, Reverend, just kind of throwing this at Romney and putting up his
comment out of context and -

SHARPTON: I asked you what Mitt Romney said.

STEELE: Put it into context. Put it into context.

SHARPTON: I showed you what -


STEELE: Reverend, let me finish my point. Let me finish my point,
and I`ll give it back to you.

SHARPTON: I gave you your point. We were talking about -

STEELE: All right. Reverend, if you`re going to do that -

SHARPTON: What Romney said, Michael. We were not comparing him to
President Obama`s statement.

STEELE: Oh, please. Oh, come on.

SHARPTON: And I gave you the opportunity to respond.

STEELE: It`s all connected, and your problem, reverend, is that you
want to pull out one chunk of this and don`t think the rest of the cards
don`t fall. They do. It is a complete process -

SHARPTON: Was Mr. Romney responding to President Obama`s plan?

STEELE: Yes. Going off the president`s own comments as a candidate
and as president that they would get to the bottom of the foreclosure
problem -

SHARPTON: Was Mr. Romney -

STEELE: And they haven`t, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Was Mr. Romney - when he said that -

STEELE: They haven`t -

SHARPTON: Was he responding to a question about President Obama`s

STEELE: I don`t know - you didn`t play the whole -

SHARPTON: What were you talking about?

STEELE: Reverend, you didn`t play the whole thing.

SHARPTON: You were talking about what he thought should happen.

STEELE: I`m just telling you what I know.

SHARPTON: So you`re trying to bring in something that was not part of
what he said. Michael, come on.

STEELE: Reverend, you can spin this however you want to.

SHARPTON: I played the tape.

STEELE: I know you`re shilling for the administration. I get that.

SHARPTON: I played the tape.

STEELE: But this is the reality. You`ve got to put it in context.
That`s my only point.

SHARPTON: Let`s go back to the tape, Michael. There is only one

STEELE: There is not.

SHARPTON: He wants (UNINTELLIGIBLE) what he felt should happen.

STEELE: There is not, Reverend, and you know it.

SHARPTON: And that was his answer.

STEELE: Oh, come on. Look, if you want to be serious - if you`re
going to be serious about this, then be serious about this.

SHARPTON: I sympathize with you, Michael, because Romney doesn`t give
me anything to work with. I mean, the guy (UNINTELLIGIBLE) about what to
do and says, "Let the people get foreclosed and the investors buy" and then
go blame it on President Obama.

STEELE: That`s not what he`s saying. He said, "Go for the process
that the president said himself he wanted."

SHARPTON: And he`s driven them in New York and then (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
President Obama, too, Michael.

STEELE: All right. OK. Whatever.

SHARPTON: Mr. Rendell, the question is tonight, Herman Cain - let`s
go to Michael`s next problem. Maybe he`ll do a little better.

STEELE: OK. Maybe you`ll do a little better.

SHARPTON: Mr. Cain - tonight, he`s got to deal with, I`m sure, his
statement about the electrified fences. Now, he starts with what he says
was a joke. He starts saying that - and we played the tape again.

The problem is, on this show, we have tapes. We don`t testify
for these people. We let them speak for themselves. On tape, as I just
played to the public, he said, "Maybe a fence. Fence is up there, may be
electrified and may have a sign there this will kill."

Then he goes and tells David Gregory, Sunday, "It was a joke.
Then he goes and stands next to Sheriff Joe Arpaio and says, "I`m not
apologizing for anything."

Just between you and I - I know we`re Democrats and he`s going to
say it`s jaded. But doesn`t that appear slightly inconsistent to you, Gov.

RENDELL: Well, sure it does, Reverend. And I don`t believe that Mr.
Cain is really a serious candidate. I don`t believe he thinks he`s a
serious candidate, the polls notwithstanding.

I just want to go back, if I can, to what`s a very important
question - and Michael was trying to do the best he could. But Michael,
the answer is, if you`re running for president, you shouldn`t just attack
your opponent, you should have solutions.

And what Gov. Romney said there was not a solution that is
consistent with what the American people want in their hearts, not only for
themselves, but others.

The Beau Biden plan was a solution. What we did in Pennsylvania,
before I became governor, it was put in place and I increased the funding
when the mortgage crisis hit.

We have a plan in Pennsylvania where we`ll give homeowners who
lose their jobs low - no interest loans to pay their mortgages until they
get back to work.

Those are things that are positive solutions, and not saying that
essentially, "Hey, you made a bad deal. You lost your job. You can`t pay
your mortgage. Who cares?" That`s the answer. If you`re running for
president, don`t just criticize the other guy. Have positive solutions.

SHARPTON: Now, let Michael - Michael, you can say your response.

STEELE: Look, I don`t even disagree with that, nor do I disagree with
what ultimately Al was saying about the sensitivities here.

And I`m totally there with that, and I believe that, yes, the way
you say things at a time like this does matter and it connotes an attitude,
if you will, about my situation.

And that is not helpful, but the only point I was trying to make
is that what Romney was saying was trying to be consistent with what the
administration had been saying about its desire to let this foreclosure
process unfold and what they would do, which they haven`t done, to make
sure that happened.

Now, to the point about Herman Cain. Here, again, I don`t see
how you make a joke about someone`s desires to come to this country in the
first instance. But then, to put it in the context of, you know, it will
kill you if you cross this fence.

Again, how you say that and how that resonates with voters does
not send the right message. And I think whether Herman Cain is a serious
candidate for the presidency or not in anyone`s view, as a candidate for
the office, that is not a message you want to send beyond your base to the
rest of the country.

SHARPTON: Now, Michael -

STEELE: And I don`t think the base really appreciates that, even
though folks - I think a lot of folks took it as a joke, but it is not
portrayed as a joke by those who hear it.

SHARPTON: Michael, let me say this, and you and I argue a lot. One
of the things that was most appalling to me is I know, as much as you and I
disagree and argue on this show, you never would have said any one of those
things because of the sensitivity.

STEELE: No. No, I would not. I would not.

SHARPTON: That wouldn`t be your politics. That`s all I wanted you to
deal with, then you can attack the president`s plan. But the insensitivity


SHARPTON: And I knew you would come through. I just knew, it
Michael, and that`s why we`re going to keep on being friends. If I was in
a foxhole, Michael, I would be right there waiting on Ed Rendell.

STEELE: There you go.

SHARPTON: Thank you, Michael. Thank you both for your time. Talk to
you later, Michael.

Ahead, talking about Michael, Michael Moore is going to join me
live to talk about occupy Wall Street and voter suppression.


SHARPTON: Whatever ultimately happens with the Occupy Wall Street
protests, they have already changed the political debate in this country.
The protests have refocused attention on the economic injustice and
inequality in America. A new poll shows 67 percent of voters here in New
York where the protests started agree with their views, a cause that has
republicans on the defensive.


ERIC CANTOR (R), MAJORITY LEADER: Growing mobs occupying Wall Street.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Dividing our nation at a time
of crisis.

to protest Wall Street and the bankers is basically saying that you`re

nuts whose first thing is to violate the law.

GLENN BECK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: They will come for you and drag you
into the streets and kill you.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Fringe of the fringe of the fringe.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Very obedient, complaint, smug,
stupid idiots.


SHARPTON: When I was down there at Occupy Wall Street, I didn`t see a
mob, I saw a movement, I saw people who cared about changing America for
the better.

And joining me now to talk about this is a man who has tried to change
America for the better, activist, filmmaker, Oscar winner and author
Michael Moore. He`s marched with the Wall Street occupies helping to rally
support to their cost. His new memoir, "Here Comes Trouble: Stories From
My Life," is in book stores everywhere. Honor to have you on the show.

we`ve never met. This is our first time.

SHARPTON: It`s an honor to me, really.

MOORE: I can now cross you off my bucket list. You know, you write
down the names of 20 people you hope to meet and I met you. So, 19 to go.

SHARPTON: Well, you`ve certainly been on my list. Let`s start with
talking about -- you were down there early and have consistently supported
what they are doing. Even before it caught on, this kind of world, kind of
attention. Where do you see it now as a movement, and where do you see it

MOORE: Well, first of all, it`s a movement that`s growing rapidly,
and no one is making it grow. It is just happening so organically across
the country, across the world, and it`s just an amazing thing to witness.
Somebody is asking me the other day, who are the organizers on this, how
does this get organized? And I said well actually we were just down there
on Wall Street. Look up here at the Stock Exchange, Goldman Sachs, Chase,
they are the organizers of this, because they have ruined the lives of so
many millions of people that they really didn`t have to ruin. They used to
just punk on the poor.


MOORE: You know, it was like the poor had this miserable life, but we
have this huge middle class and as long as they gave the middle class, or
allowed the middle class to have some of the things that the wealthy get to
have, your own house, a couple cars, a vacation, kids go to college, maybe
we won`t think that much about the poor.


MOORE: And so.

SHARPTON: It may not be the poor`s fault.

MOORE: Maybe, I think, you know, somewhere in the bible, there are
always been poor, there`s always be poor. And what is remarkable is so
much of the middle class supported capitalism, supported the economic
thing, the engine of the wealthy and never really minded the fact that the
wealthy were wealthy because, well, the wealthy built the factory, we get
to work. We have a wage, everything is fine.


MOORE: I think historians when they look at this time, they are going
to wonder why the wealthy overplayed their hand like this. Why would they
when they had it so good, they had the middle class voting for the
politicians that the wealthy bought, you know, everything -- everything was
running just fine. They were posting profits in the billions every year,
but that wasn`t enough for them. Billions weren`t enough. They wanted

SHARPTON: They call that greed, Michael. That would have been

MOORE: And it`s the dirtiest word in capitalism is enough. There`s
no such thing as a enough and what they did though was they started to ruin
the lives of the very people who voted for their politicians and supported
them all these years, the middle class. And you know, it`s one thing if
you`ve always been poor and you`ve never had those things.


MOORE: You wish you had them. Life is pretty miserable without them,
it`s another thing when you`ve had that life, you`ve owned your own home,
no problem with kids going to college, you know, you had the nice -- to
have that and then to have it taken away from.

SHARPTON: And that`s what I think you`re seeing on all sides of the
political spectrum.

MOORE: That`s right.

SHARPTON: I grew up here in Brooklyn, New York. I had friends,
because I was a boy -- they would take me around. But I had friends that
never came into Manhattan until they were grown, but now you have had kids
that grew up in the suburbs and had it all and they are foreclosing their
houses and they are totally taken away any of their security and they are
acting like what are you talking about, what are you complaining about,
while they have got $2 trillion in cash that they won`t invest.

MOORE: Right. That they are just sitting on.


MOORE: Which is historic. I don`t know if people realize this.
Corporate America has never sat on that much cash in their own bank
accounts. I mean, historically, they put it back into the economy. They
build factories, they invent things, they make things, give jobs, et
cetera, et cetera and that`s how the whole things run. They`ve just
decided to withdraw that money from circulation so that nobody can have it
and it sits in their accounts and they think that`s their money. They
think that`s their money, and I guess legally it is, but morally, morally?


MOORE: The money that exists in circulation belongs to all of us as
Americans and we have this basic agreement with the American dream that if
you work hard and your company prospers, you`re supposed to prosper. And
we realize that there`s a big pie on the table and that that pie should be
divided as fairly as possible, it probably can never be divided evenly, but
fairly, but at least fairly. Now what we have is one percent come to the
table and say 40 percent of that pie is mine and take that pie and leave
the 99 percent to fight over what`s left.

SHARPTON: And many in the 99 percent, I think that`s the challenge,
that`s why I and others were down and say, no, this movement is important,
is that you can`t allow them to play the 99 percent against each other
because we`re not each other`s problem.

MOORE: Right.

SHARPTON: And I think that that`s the crabs in the barrel thing,
would rather than the crabs uniting having a coalition lifting the led off
the barrel.

MOORE: Right.

SHARPTON: They had them fighting and climbing over each other.

MOORE: Right. I was out at Times Square on Saturday night.


MOORE: That 99 percent that you just talk about, right? The one that
they like to divide and have fight against each other. They`re all kinds
of people in Times Square Saturday night. I`m sure there are people there
that I disagree with, pro-choice, you know, they are not. I`m sure there
are people there that don`t want any gun control laws, I do. I`m sure
there are people there that don`t approve of gay marriage. I do. But
nobody was talking about that. Those issues that they have used, those
wedge issues that they have used to divide the working people of this
country, they don`t -- they are not being discussed at Occupy Wall Street.
No one cares about that anymore. We care about the real basic thing that
is hurting and affecting everyone and that is the one percent are running
the show, and this is a democracy.

SHARPTON: That`s right.

MOORE: And in a democracy, one percent doesn`t run the show.

SHARPTON: That`s exactly right.

MOORE: A hundred percent runs the show.

SHARPTON: And that is the fight is all about.

MOORE: That is correct.

SHARPTON: There`s one guy running around talking about 9-9-9. You
and I are talking about 99 percent. Can you stay with me one more segment?

MOORE: Yes, sure.

SHARPTON: Because I want to talk to you about another thing that`s
real dear to my heart, and we`ve been talking a lot about it on the show,
voter suppression. And I think you`re the guy that can help bring this
graphically to the American people.

Michael Moore, when we come back, we`ll going to talk about voter
suppression, the undoing of Dr. King`s dream.


SHARPTON: We`re back with filmmaker and activist Michael Moore.
We`re talking about some big trouble coming up in 2012. The Republicans
plan to buy and steal the election any way they can, billionaire money
flooding into the political system and efforts in 37 states to suppress the
vote. This voter I.D., changing early voting, this in many ways is turning
back what we celebrated in the life of Dr. King with a memorial this
weekend, and I know you have been outspoken on this. I mean, there`s some
way we must really bring this to the American public. This is anti-

MOORE: Yes. Exactly. I -- I`m going to the next few months make
this one of my important causes because what they are trying to do here is
reverse civilization. In the civilized countries on this planet,


MOORE: When do they vote? They vote on Saturday, Sunday or Election
Day is a holiday. I would say a majority of the democracies, they want to
encourage more people to vote or in some countries like Australia it`s the
law. You have to vote, because they want an honest representation of
everybody`s feelings of who should be running the country. In this country
we`re going back, as we are in so many ways, back to the 1800s and the
1700s, and this attempt to reverse things. This is what is so amazing.
There`s a silver lining in this -- in this dark cloud and it`s this. If
the Republicans and the conservatives thought that the majority of
Americans agreed with them on the issues, they wouldn`t be trying to
suppress the vote.

SHARPTON: That`s true?

MOORE: They would be trying to get as many people voting as possible.
They would say, we`ve got to set up voting booths at Wal-Mart, you know.
We`ve got to -- right?


MOORE: It`s because they know that.

SHARPTON: The more people to vote, they are in trouble.

MOORE: The more people to vote, they`re in trouble because America is
quite a liberal country, even though people don`t call themselves liberals,
they are liberals on the issues, and most of the issues.

SHARPTON: And they believe in fairness.

MOORE: They believe in fairness.

SHARPTON: There`s a fraudulent claim about voter fraud. Let me show
you the graph. Out of 300 million votes cast, prosecutors can only convict
86 people. This is the Bush Justice Department when they went after voter
fraud, so this is a solution looking for a problem, not a problem looking
for a solution, but it`s what you said. They want to limit the amount of
people voting in this country.

MOORE: Right.

SHARPTON: And it means a lot to me coming out of the civil rights
community, but -- you could be a right wing republican, you should, if you
believe in democracy, not want to see this happen.

MOORE: That`s correct. That`s correct. And you should want this
country run by the people, all the people, make sure everybody votes, and
don`t make it difficult. Make it easy for people. Make it -- make it
really easy because what could be more important in a democracy than --
than knowing that those who are governing do so at will of the people.

SHARPTON: That`s right.

MOORE: All the people.

SHARPTON: I`ve got to ask you a question. I know you`re not here to
sell your book but you`ve written a book, there`s a touching story I want
you to quickly share with our audience about you and I are the same age.


SHARPTON: When you were 13, I was 13. Martin Luther King was killed.


SHARPTON: And you were growing up in Michigan.


SHARPTON: Tell us how you found out about it and what that meant to

MOORE: There`s a short story in this book called "The Holy Thursday,"
and it was the Thursday actually before Holy Thursday. It was the Thursday
before Palm Sunday is when Dr. King was assassinated, and I was an altar
boy, and mass was over and I went outside to dump the incense out in that
snow. And one of the dads had gone out to his car early to warm it up, and
he heard the news. He stood up on his floor board and shouted over his
door to everybody coming out of the mass. They`ve shot King, Martin Luther
King is dead and a cheer went up.

SHARPTON: A cheer.

MOORE: A cheer went up amongst not all the people but a good number
of them.

SHARPTON: They were cheering the Martin Luther King`s death.

MOORE: They were cheering. And I`m 13, and I`m like, I cannot, first
of all, I`m in shock that I`ve just heard that.

SHARPTON: This is in Michigan, not Mississippi.

MOORE: No, no. This is Michigan, essentially an all-white town, and
again, to the credit of the majority of the people that were coming out,
they didn`t do that.


MOORE: But it wasn`t just one or two people that were cheering, and I
just could not believe -- they had come out of mass, and they heard this
news, but people tend to forget that even in 1968, even in his last years,
Martin Luther King was reviled by many people.

SHARPTON: No question.

MOORE: And it was difficult, difficult for him and for the movement
because so much of the country still had not come to a place of love and a
sense of justice about this issue of race. And it affected me for the rest
of my life.

SHARPTON: I wanted you to tell that story for several reasons. I
wanted people to understand what makes you, you. I also wanted people also
to understand that in the north as well as the south we had those elements
of intolerance and that Dr. King, who is revered now, was someone that was
controversial and reviled. When you read all the stories now about people
are not like King, they act like they acted like King when he was alive.
It`s amazing and I hope it inspires some of the activists that are getting
involved now like Wall Street to understand, don`t worry about the
criticism. Any effective activists have to go through that.

MOORE: Especially at the beginning, oh my God, I mean, when you start
a movement. You`re constantly put down, you`re ridiculed. You`re opposed.
The cops have their billy clubs out. I mean, this is, and every movement,
whether it was the civil rights movement, whether it was women getting the
right to vote.

SHARPTON: Right. Gay and lesbian, immigration, whatever.

MOORE: You name it, this is the pattern, but here is the happy ending
that takes place every time. Justice prevails.

SHARPTON: All the time.

MOORE: The good guys and women win out.

SHARPTON: Well, I want to have to leave it on that. I hope everybody
reads your book.

MOORE: Well, thanks for saying that.

SHARPTON: And you and I are on the front lines dealing with the voter
suppression. Michael Moore author of "Here Comes Trouble: Stories From My
Life." He`s not a trouble-maker, he`s a trouble breaker. Thanks for your
time tonight. Congratulations on the new book.

MOORE: Thank you so much.

SHARPTON: All right. Ahead, move over "Jersey Shore." I`ve got
something even more outrageous. The 2012 republican race. That`s next.


SHARPTON: Fighting, backstabbing, alliances and unintentional comedy,
there`s no reality show like the one playing out with the GOP candidates.
So, tonight as they go primetime with another debate, we`ll preview the
"The Unreal World."

Last time on "The Unreal World."


In a shocking twist, fan favorite Chris Christie left the island going
back to where he belongs. This week the show goes all in in Vegas. With
the remaining contestants still competing to be America`s next top
candidate, we`ve got Willard Mitt Romney as the millionaire matchmaker
showing his love for corporations, I mean, people.


CAIN: Imagine there`s no pizza


SHARPTON: The guy everyone is talking about, pizza man Herman Cain,
he thinks he`s the next "American Idol." But with his 9-9-9 plan under
fire from all sides, the critics are singing the blues.


RANDY JACKSON, JUDGE, AMERICAN IDOL: It was pitchy in spots. I don`t
know. I didn`t feel it.


SHARPTON: Always controversial Michele Bachmann had that X Factor
when she started.




SHARPTON: But odds are Vegas of all places won`t be kind to her.


BACHMANN: Let`s all say happy birthday to Elvis Presley today.


SHARPTON: And then there`s Rick Perry, still "Dancing with the
Stars," but with every debate his Texas two step is drawing low marks
across the country.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Show up or shut up.


SHARPTON: And the spoiler alert. Ron Paul isn`t getting a rose in
tonight`s ceremony. So, who is the next one to get voted off? Stay tuned
to find out what happens when the GOP stops being sensible and starts
getting unreal. If it was left up to me, I`d vote them all off the island.
The American people have a chance to do exactly that next year because this
is serious. This is not about sound bites and show business. It`s our
future. It`s our country. Thanks for watching. I`m al Sharpton.

"HARDBALL" starts right now.


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