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Tuesday, October 18, 2011

Read the transcript to the Tuesday show

Guests: Jim Moore, Martin Bashir, Jon Ralston, Erica Payne, Alan Grayson, John Nichols

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. Welcome to THE ED SHOW
tonight from New York.

Tonight, it was a Republican on Republican steel cage match in Las
Vegas. I mean, Romney went after Herman Cain. Perry went after Mitt
Romney. Mitt Romney put his hands on Rick Perry. What was that all about?

And there were a lot of bad ideas, and also a lot of great fireworks.

THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work and dissect it.


finding the facts on that.

facts are.

ROMNEY: And, Rick, I`m speaking. I`m speaking.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Tonight, full analysis of the eighth Republican
presidential debate with Jon Ralston of "The Las Vegas Sun," and author Jim

Unemployed millionaire Mitt Romney wants to let underwater mortgages

ROMNEY: Don`t try to stop the foreclosure process, let it run the
course and hit the bottom.

SCHULTZ: We`ll ask MSNBC`s Martin Bashir if he was able to clean up
the remarks in the debate.

he wanted. He borrowed, he spent, and we have lost 1.5 million jobs.

SCHULTZ: Mitch McConnell is caught red-handed, misleading about the
jobs on FOX News. Former Congressman Alan Grayson will set him straight.

And Liz Cheney`s group has joined the fight against middle classers
and unions in Ohio. We will get an exclusive report from John Nichols of
"The Nation "magazine.


SCHULTZ: Great to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
watching THE ED SHOW.

I have to tell you, I absolutely love it. We knew this was going to

The gloves finally came off. Moments ago, seven of the Republican
presidential candidates wrapped up a debate in Las Vegas and for the first
time, the gloves have come off. The first target was Herman Cain`s 9-9-9
tax plan.


ROMNEY: Are you saying that the state sales tax will also go away?

are replacing a bunch of oranges.

ROMNEY: So then Governor Perry was right?

CAIN: No, he wasn`t. He was mixing apples and oranges.

ROMNEY: But will the people in Nevada not have to pay Nevada sales
tax, and in addition pay the 9 percent tax?

CAIN: Governor Romney, you are doing the same thing that they are
doing. You are mixing apples and the oranges.


CAIN: No, no. You are going to pay the state sales tax no matter

ROMNEY: Right.

CAIN: Whether you throw out the existing code and you put in our
plan, you`re still going to pay that. That`s apples and oranges.

ROMNEY: Fine. And I`m going to be getting a bushel basket that has
apples and oranges in it, because I will pay both taxes and the people in
Nevada don`t want to pay both taxes.


SCHULTZ: And for the first 20 minutes, every candidate took a whack
at Herman Cain, but the pizza man stood his ground.

Rick Santorum came out at Mitt Romney about the health care. I loved


credibility, Mitt, when it comes to repealing Obamacare. Your plan was the
basis for Obamacare. Your consultants helped Obama craft Obamacare. And
to say that you`re going to repeal it, you just -- you have no track record
on that that we can trust that you`re going to do that.


SCHULTZ: Romney tried to go back at Santorum and it got ugly.


ROMNEY: This is something that was crafted for Massachusetts. It
would be wrong to adopt this as a nation.

SANTORUM: That`s not what you said.

ROMNEY: You`re -- you`re shaking -- you`re shaking your head.

SANTORUM: Governor, no, that`s not what you said.

ROMNEY: That happens -- to happens to be --


SANTORUM: It was in your book that it should be for everybody.

ROMNEY: Guys --

PERRY: You took it out of your book.

SANTORUM: You took it out of your book.

ROMNEY: Hey, his turn. His turn, OK, and mine.


ROMNEY: I`ll tell you what? Why don`t you let me speak?


SANTORUM: You`re allowed -- you`re allowed to change -- you`re
allowed to change --

ROMNEY: Rick, you had your chance. Let me speak.

SANTORUM: You can`t change the facts.

ROMNEY: Rick, you had your chance. Let me speak.

SANTORUM: You`re out of time. You`re out of time.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN: He ate into your time.


ROMNEY: Rick --


ROMNEY: I haven`t had a chance to respond yet, because you were
interrupting the entire time I was trying to speak.


SCHULTZ: And Newt Gingrich wanted a piece of the action, but Mitt
Romney shut him down.


ROMNEY: Well, Newt, we got the idea of the individual mandate from

it from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: Yes, we got it from you and the -- we got it from the
Heritage Foundation and from you.

GINGRICH: What you said is not true. You did not get that from me,
but from the Heritage Foundation.

ROMNEY: And you never supported this `em?

GINGRICH: I agree with them, but what you said to the audience is not
true. That is not where you got it from?

ROMNEY: Did you support in the past an individual mandate?

GINGRICH: I actually did with the Heritage Center against Hillary

ROMNEY: You did support an individual mandate?

GINGRICH: Yes, sir.

ROMNEY: OK. That`s what I`m saying. We got the idea from you and
the Heritage Foundation.


SCHULTZ: I think that Rick Perry had the best debate so far in this
debate season. He nailed Romney for hiring illegal immigrants.


PERRY: Those people who hire illegals ought to be penalized. And,
Mitt, you lose all of the standing from my perspective because you hired
illegals in your home and you knew for it, knew about it for a year, and
the idea that you stand here before us and talk about that you are strong
on immigration is on its face the height of hypocrisy.


SCHULTZ: And I think that comment got Romney off of his game. For
the first time in the debates, I think that Romney in a sense lost his
composure. I don`t know if I would go so far to call it a Jim Harbaugh
moment. But here`s how it unfolded. Romney was so wound up, he grabbed
Perry and tried to set him straight.


ROMNEY: I`m looking forward to finding your facts on that, because
that just doesn`t --

PERRY: Well, I`ll tell you what the facts are.

ROMNEY: Rick, again -- Rick, I`m speaking.

PERRY: You had the -- your newspaper -- the newspaper --

ROMNEY: I`m speaking. I`m speaking. I`m speaking.


ROMNEY: You get 30 seconds. This is the way the rules work here, is
that I get 60 seconds and then you get 30 second to respond. Right?

PERRY: And they want to hear you say that you knew you had illegals
working at your --

ROMNEY: Would you please wait? Are you just going to keep talking?

PERRY: Yes, sir.

ROMNEY: Would you let me finish with what I have to say?


SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney, I wonder if he is on the CNN payroll for
moderator tonight.

Herman Cain dodged the question on his electrified fence controversy.


COOPER: Would you build an entire fence along the entire border and
would you have it be electrified?

CAIN: Allow me to give the serious answer. Yes, I believe that we
should secure the border for real, and it would be a combination of a
fence, technology as well as possibly a boots on the ground for some of the
more dangerous areas. I don`t apologize at all for wanting to protect the
American citizens.


SCHULTZ: I`ll tell you what, Herman Cain is the front-runner the most
recent polls. I don`t think he was hurt at all in the debate tonight. I
think that Perry had his best evening. It`s about time. Romney shaken at

And probably the MVP tonight for moving forward his cause, former
Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum and I thought he was a player tonight.

Get the cell phones out. Now, wait a minute -- I wouldn`t vote for
any of `em, I`m just giving analysis here, OK?

I want to know what you think. Tonight`s question: Did the
Republicans offer real solutions for America? Text A for yes, text B for
no to 662639. You can always go to our blog at, and place a
comment. We`d love to have you do that. We`ll bring you the results later
in the show.

Let`s bring in MSNBC contributor Jim Moore tonight. He`s also the
author of the upcoming book "Adios Mofo: Why Rick Perry Will Make America
Miss George W. Bush." And Jon Ralston joins us tonight, host of "Face to
Face" and columnist for the "Las Vegas Sun."

Jon, talk about "Face to Face," this was your stuff tonight. I mean,
this is the first time we`ve really seen the Republicans take off the
gloves and go face to face. What do you think the highlight was tonight?

JON RALSTON, LAS VEGAS SUN: Well, certainly, it was what you just
talked about, Ed. That they took the gloves off to use a Vegas cliche --
it was like a boxing match. I mean, I thought Perry might hit Romney or
vice versa during that exchange you just talked about. Clearly, Perry came
prepared to be actually be awake during the entire debate and get engaged.
He unloaded the illegal immigrants hired by Romney line to try to put
Romney on the defensive and guess what? It worked.

You said it. Romney was always cool and collected, almost lost it
there. Remember, the first few minutes of the debate was everyone else
attacking Cain`s 9-9-9 plan. Romney was sitting back having the time of
his life with everybody else attacking Cain. And then suddenly, it turned
on him with the immigration question.

And then a little bit, he and Gingrich getting into it on the
Affordable Care Act which they all call Obama care.

So, I thought that Romney really was hit in this debate in a way that
he had not been. He brought it in, because he is the best debater still,
but he almost lost it.

SCHULTZ: Jim Moore, did Mitt Romney defeat Rick Perry? Did Rick
Perry rejuvenate his campaign with this performance? What do you think?

JIM MOORE, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think that he looked very bad,
Ed. He sounded pretty much like a rich guy having trouble trying to find
good legal help. It`s not a way to appeal to the masses.

And I think also what happened tonight is that Perry did sort of
reestablish himself.

And the takeaway from this night becomes that it`s Mitt Romney and
Rick Perry in a long slog all the way to who wins the nomination.

You look for in a debate like this a break-through moment for somebody
like Congresswoman Bachmann or former Senator Santorum or Gingrich or any
of the others to help their campaigns catch fire, and that didn`t really
happen here tonight.

People did spend a lot of time deconstructing Mr. Cain`s 9-9-9 tax
plan, and he`s going to be dealing with that extensively in the coming
days. It`s going to affect his support and his candidacy. And so, you`ll
see those numbers begin to shift.


MOORE: I think we end up with a Perry and Romney kind of thing coming
out of Vegas.

SCHULTZ: Romney attacked Perry over the Mormon cult controversy.
Let`s take a look at it.


ROMNEY: Instead of saying as you did, "Boy, that introduction knocked
the ball out of the park," I`d have said, "Reverend Jeffress, you got that
wrong. We should select people not based upon their faith." Even though --
and I don`t suggest you distance yourself from your faith any more than I
would. But the concept that we select people based on the church or the
synagogue they go to, I think, is a very dangerous and -- and enormous
departure from the principles of our -- of our Constitution.

PERRY: I said I did not agree with the -- Pastor Jeffress` remarks. I
don`t agree with them. I -- I can`t apologize any more than that.


SCHULTZ: Jim, what did you any? Will the Mormon issue hurt Perry or

MOORE: Well, it hurts Romney, because the truth is that as we have
said all along, that is a problem for Southern Christian evangelical voters
and Rick Perry has been pushing this issue. He has been using the third-
party surrogates to promote among the white Southern Christians and it`s
helping him. It`s keeping Mitt Romney in the mid-20s. His numbers are not
going down.

If I were Mitt Romney, I would have turned to Rick Perry and said, Mr.
Perry, do you believe I`m a Christian? Do you believe that my faith is a
part of Christianity?

And he would have had Rick Perry cornered and this whole thing would
have blown up on Rick Perry.

But Mr. Romney has tried to avoid this discussion because I think his
campaign probably knows quite seriously that it is an issue that they have
to deal with.

SCHULTZ: Jon Ralston, what about Herman Cain? Did he hold his own
tonight? I mean, the first 20 minutes was attacking his tax plan as you
mentioned. But I also thought he was very strong on his position on
illegal immigration and jobs? What are your thoughts?

RALTON: Well, you know, he got in trouble on illegal immigration with
the electrified fence and the alligators in the moat. But I thought he
came very well prepared, as he said, to talk about it seriously. I thought
he had good defenses of the 9-9-9 plan which has not held up to the
scrutiny, but it sounds good on the face to a lot of people.

Cain`s problem is that he has no campaign infrastructure and you ask
him who the advisers are, and he said it`s a secret. He`s got some
accountant from the Midwest who he says came up with the 9-9-9 plan.

So, I think he has some of those systemic problems in his campaign,
that will be a problem.

But he sounds better as a normal person I think that some of the
smoother politicians whether it`s Romney or Perry who was certainly
smoother tonight.

Just let me say one quick thing about the Mormon vote if I could here
in Nevada. It`s interesting because here in the Nevada, the Mormons are
only 7 percent of the population, but they vote in big numbers in a
Republican caucus. And that could be an issue for him. But, nationally,
it`s changed a little bit.

Back in 2008, 36 percent of the people polled said they would not vote
for a Mormon. That is down to 20 percent. But that is still significant.
That still could be a real problem as Jim mentioned I think for Romney in
the primaries.

SCHULTZ: Especially in the South.

And, Jon, I want to ask you -- you know, foreclosure rate very high in
the state of Nevada. Did you think that any of the candidates tonight
offered solutions in dealing with the foreclosure issue in your state?

RALSTON: You know, I think it`s interesting, Ed. I mean, it is
really bad here. The highest foreclosure rate in the country, 60 percent-
plus of the people are under water in their homes. How do you think they
felt listening to the Republican candidates talk about market-based
solutions and let the market work here when essentially it was a rigged
market that caused this?

Yes, some people got in over their heads, but mostly the market was
rigged, and then you had Romney essentially saying to an editorial board
here that the foreclosure process should be allowed to go through. How do
you think people here all their homes underwater, they lost their jobs hear
that kind of rhetoric.

And believe me, this isn`t just Democrats. It`s not a partisan issue


RALSTON: There are a lot of Republicans who are going to vote whose
houses are underwater, and they don`t want to hear about the market-based
solutions. They want to know how they`re going to keep the banks in line,
how they`re going to help them hold on to their houses.

SCHULTZ: And I thought that the emotional response was made very well
by Michele Bachmann, talking to single moms in the state of Nevada.

Jim, what do you think about how the independents are going to respond
to this debate tonight? Will they be turned off by the brawling? I can`t
remember a Republican debate in recent history where it got so aggressive.
What do you think?

MOORE: Two-thirds of the Republican voters still identify themselves
as undecided. I`m not sure how tonight`s sort of "Jerry Springer Show"
helped them reach any further conclusion about making a choice. I think
we`re going to continue along this line and we`re going to continue to hear
the arguing and I`m not this or I`m not that -- and these things will come
into focus over time.

It`s interesting this time, Ed, that we are dealing with a very early
process. There`s so many debates so early in 2011, and people are just now
starting to pay attention. I don`t think solidified any decision for any
of the Republican voters yet.

SCHULTZ: Final question, quickly for both of you. Did anyone make
inroads with the Latino vote? Jon, what about that?

RALSTON: Yes, I don`t think so. I mean, you saw Romney talk a little
by about how we all here support legal immigration which was a smart thing
to do, especially -- listen, the Latino vote that will determine a lot of
things including in this state. Obama won the Latino vote 70 to 20 in
2008. He`s not going to have such an easy time in this cycle.

So, I think Romney talked intelligently about it. But still, the
Republicans have huge problems in the Hispanic community in general, and
they have the find more than they said tonight to make inroads I think.

SCHULTZ: I think that the loser tonight is the man on the left of the
screen and that`s Mitt Romney. I thought he lost his composure tonight.
He tries to be a domineering force, and really interrupted the debate and
started to talk about the rules of conversation. I thought he lost the
poise tonight. And I think that he didn`t do himself any favors. Maybe we
saw the real Mitt Romney tonight under pressure.

Jim Moore and Jon Ralston, great to have you with to us tonight from
Las Vegas.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow, we want to know what you

And coming up, much more on the big Nevada debate: Herman Cain doubled
down on his blame yourself comments regarding the 99 percent movement.
MSNBC host Martin Bashir, and Agenda`s Project Erica Payne, and former
Congressman Alan Grayson will be joining us for more analysis coming up.

And later, while President Obama is on his bus tour to promote his
jobs plan, Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader in the Senate,
he`s on FOX News once again making up stuff about the president`s jobs

Stay tuned. I got commentary. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

As Jon Ralston was saying in the last segment, tonight`s Republican
debate took place in the epicenter of the housing crisis of the United
States. Nevada has the country`s highest foreclosure rate. It also has
the country`s highest unemployment rate.

Well, yesterday, self-proclaimed middle-classer Mitt Romney had a few
choice word for the millions of Americans struggling with underwater
mortgages -- you are on your own.


ROMNEY: Don`t try to stop the foreclosure process. Let it run its
course and hit the bottom, allow the investors to buy the homes, put
renters in them, fix the homes up, and let it turn around and come back up.

The Obama administration has slow-walked the foreclosure process that
has long existed and as a result we have a foreclosure overhang.


SCHULTZ: Ad one other thing that Mitt forgot to say in that sound
bite is just let your credit go to hell in a hand basket, it`s no big deal.

Just hours ago, Romney side stepped the issue and gave this very
wishy-washy response.


ROMNEY: The idea of the federal government running around to say,
we`re going to give you some money for trading in your old car, or we`re
going to give you a few thousand bucks for buying a new house, or we`re
going to keep banks from foreclosuring if you can`t make your payments --
these kinds of actions on the part of government has not worked. The right
course is to let the markets work.


SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney has been wrong about the auto loan, not bailout.
And he is wrong about this.

Coming up: more coverage and analysis of tonight`s GOP debate. Martin
Bashir and Erica Payne will join me.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Our debate and analysis continues.

Republican debate crowds have booed an American soldier, cheered for
the death penalty, and applauded for a death of a man who could not afford

Well, tonight, the crowd cheered Herman Cain for saying if you`re
unemployed, it`s your fault.


COOPER: Herman Cain, I`ve got to ask you, you said, -- two weeks ago,
you said, "Don`t blame Wall Street, don`t blame the big banks. If you
don`t have a job, and you`re not rich, blame yourself."

That was two weeks ago. The movement has grown. Do you still say


CAIN: Yes, I do still say that. And here`s why.



SCHULTZ: That right there is part of his popularity. He doesn`t back
down, and that is what people like about him.

The "Occupy Wall Street" movement is more popular than any of the
seven candidates on that stage tonight. Any Republican who attacks this
middle-class movement is writing a ticket to defeat in 2012.

Let`s turn to Martin Bashir, host of the "MARTIN BASHIR," weekdays at
3:00 p.m. here on MSNBC. And Erica Payne, founder and president of the
Agenda Project.

Great to have both of you with us tonight.

Martin, who won tonight? Who got the knockout punch in the third

MARTIN BASHIR, MSNBC HOST: I`ll tell you what I think. I think this
is the best reality show we have seen. It was a combination of "Big
Brother" that ended with "Big Loser," and the big loser was the GOP. They
came on the stage with this fantastic music, they threw punches, they went
to Herman Cain at this weakest point which is 9-9-9, and his response, nine
oranges, nine apples and nine bananas.

And then they all went to Mitt Romney on the Romneycare and smacked
him a few times, and he did not cope well.

So, it was fantastic. It was like watching them go into the "Big
Brother" house, have a fight with each other and we saw it all before us.

And you know, the most depressing thing of all is when you thought
about the position that they are seeking to hold in all seriousness, I
think that you would be hard pressed to imagine any one of them in the
position of president.

SCHULTZ: Well, you know, Erica, I go back t o the competition for the
nomination for the Democrats when Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were
going back and forth at one another. And there were other candidates in
there that were seasoned, you know, public servants -- it never got like

What do you make of the demeanor tonight?

desperateness from a lot of the candidates. So, they really want to get in
there and say what they have to say.

But I just think that most of them are out and three, two and a half
of them are still in.

And so, in my mind, Herman Cain needed to stand up and defend his
plan. He did a reasonably well if you`re a Republican watching. Mitt
Romney needed to not completely his cool when he was going to be the main
person under attack. I think he essentially did it.

And Rick Perry needed to come up from behind, which I don`t think he
quite got there.

Newt is so annoyed he can`t even stand to listen to the rest of them.


BASHIR: He is like the older uncle who has had a few too many and
he`s just sick of the whole thing.

SCHULTZ: He looks like somebody`s good chief of staff.

BASHIR: He really does.

SCHULTZ: He looks like somebody`s chief of staff in this crowd.

But, you know, Erica, did Rick resurrect himself a little bit tonight?
I mean, he went hard on the energy. He went after Romney, showing that he
can be aggressive. And he`s been tanking in the polls for the last three
weeks, but the guy has got $17 million. He showed more fight tonight?

PAYNE: Well, I mean, he could not have done worse, right? So, the
only thing -- he was either going to kill himself completely or it would be
some upside. He had a little bit of upside and the response on immigration
was actually an interesting response given that he is one of the only
people --

BASHIR: Well, it was relatively measured.

PAYNE: It was. And the fact of the matter is that he is one of the
only people who have dealt with it. And so, listening to that, you
actually -- I think for a Republican watching, you felt like you were
having a honest answer when he challenged Michele Bachmann and said you in
Congress come and deal with what I`ve had to deal with in my state, I think
he knocked her out.

SCHULTZ: All right. Rick Santorum, I felt like he had done his
homework going into the night.

BASHIR: Absolutely. If you look at the debate overall, they were
terrible on foreign policy. They weren`t particularly inventive on the
economy. Most of them said they wanted to disband regulations and disband
government. But actually, if they were running for chaplain in chief as
the head of the faith like the parson of the country, then all of them
would be pretty good and Santorum was brilliant in the way he explained how
someone`s faith translates to values, but you don`t judge them as to how
they find salvation.

And then Rick Perry gave a robust response on challenging -- when he
was challenged by Romney on the issue of his friend, Pastor Jeffress
dismissing Mormonism. And then Romney, himself, was very, very good in
making the point on the basis of the Constitution that actually at the end
of the day, it is not about your religious beliefs that denote whether you
are a qualified candidate.

So I would say that tonight was brilliant if it were a seminary
meeting to select the parson in chief for the country. They were all very,
very strong on that, but on other issues, it was horrendous.

PAYNE: I mean, here is the thing -- I agree with you from the
political position I sit in, but being from North Carolina, I know a lot of
people who are a lot further to the right than I am, and if you think about
what will happen, and they basically have to win the nomination, but then
which way do they tack and what track do they take to try to win. I think
that you put Mitt Romney with the V.P. candidate in Herman Cain who is
obviously gunning for the shot today when he said, you have the Wall Street
experience and I got my Main Street experience and that is the next line,
like let`s partner up and go for it.


SCHULTZ: Will the Christian conservatives stay home if Mitt Romney is
the nominee? I think that this Mormon issue in the South and in North
Carolina is going to be big.

PAYNE: They want to get rid of Barack Obama. There`s no staying home
for conservatives, and so you put up two people who ostensibly have
business credentials, and you know, Mitt Romney looking like a strong
figure. I think that Herman Cain comes in with the true blue conservative
credentials and it is tough for the president to beat.

BASHIR: Herman Cain gives you the evangelical Republican right. He
gives you the Protestant image that Mitt Romney needs if he wants to go in.
Chris Matthews was suggesting another character John Thune for that
position. The same phenomena -- Romney is a Mormon goes in with someone
who is a Protestant Christian and that is the ticket that you are looking

SCHULTZ: Introducing John Thune to the country would be a problem.
That`s the only thing, the name recognition. Anyway, Chris is brilliant to
say that, because I know the guy. You know, Thune.

BASHIR: Well, you are one of the few that does.

SCHULTZ: Well -- I mean, I think that Jim DeMint would be as good for
any of them, because somebody has got to deliver the South for this ticket.
No question about it.

Martin Bashir, great to have you with us.

Erica Payne, thank you so much for being here tonight.

More Republican debate coverage ahead. Former Congressman Alan
Grayson is coming up, he always has a lot to say.

And a couple of highly paid FOX News guys are demonizing the 99
percent movement. One of them even compared it to the KKK. They`re up
next in "Psycho Talk."

And later, in my playbook, Mitch McConnell`s latest attack on
President Obama`s is long on fiction and short on fact, as usual. We`ll
give the minority leader and a good truth check, next.


SCHULTZ: And in Psycho Talk tonight, Brit Hume and Dick Morris, they
want you to think the 99 Percent Movement, those folks out on the street,
they are nothing but a bunch of dangerous leftist. Brit Hume thinks it is
risky for President Obama to support the protesters.


BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I think he is playing with fire, because
these protests are unfocused. They are susceptible to infiltration and
perhaps even being dominated, to some extent, by some pretty hard left


SCHULTZ: Yeah, those librarians will get you every time. President
Obama is not playing with fire. In fact, he is dealing with the people who
supported him three years ago.

When I was in the protests covering them in Chicago last week, just
about everybody I talked to said they voted for President Obama in 2008.
They are not hard left activists. They are disappointed Obama supporters
because he didn`t fight harder for the middle class and tried to deal with
the Republicans.

And they don`t want to see the same movie again, if you know what I
mean, next time around. They want to know if they vote for President Obama
again, he is going to fight for them;, it will be a different show. So
they are making their voices heard.

Brit, if you had the guts to get out of your limo and meet some of
these people face-to-face, you would probably see the same thing. But Brit
Hume isn`t the only high dollar Fox talent trashing the 99 Percenters.
Here comes Dick Morris on Lou Dobbs` show. And he put his foot in his


DICK MORRIS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: When you get a leftist movement
like this going on, that goes way over, it puts the president in a very,
very difficult situation. Just think of the flip side. Think if you had a
large Klan movement in the United States with a Republican president.


SCHULTZ: How insulting. Dick Morris must be getting analogy tips
from Hank Williams, Jr. There is no comparison between the Occupy Movement
and the KKK. One is fighting for an end to the vast inequality of wealth
in this country through largely peaceful protests. The other fought
against racial equality and killed people they didn`t like.

For Dick Morris to compare the two is outrageous Psycho Talk.

Coming up next, more debate and analysis with former Congressman Alan
Grayson of Florida, who is running again.

He is already a major right wing player, and now Liz Cheney is using
the family name to kill workers` rights in Ohio. John Nichols of "The
Nation" will explain with an exclusive story. You are watching THE ED SHOW


SCHULTZ: At tonight`s Republican debate in Nevada, all roads led back
to the GOP`s favorite talking points. For instance, a question about the
foreclosure crisis led poll leader Herman Cain to denounce the Dodd/Frank


HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to get government
out of the way. It starts with making sure that we can boost this economy,
and then reform Dodd/Frank and reform a lot of these other regulations that
have gotten in the way, and let the market do it just like Mitt has talked


SCHULTZ: The market fixes everything, doesn`t it? The same question
about foreclosures led Mitt Romney to blast President Obama for not
understanding the private sector.


responsible for this economy for the last three years, and he has failed
us. He has failed us, in part, because he has no idea how the private
sector works or how to create jobs.

On every single issue, he has made it harder for our economy to
reboot. And as a le result, we have 25 million Americans out of work or
stop looking for work, or in part time work and can`t get full-time employ.
Home values going down. You have median income in America that in the last
10 -- three years, has dropped by 10 percent.

Americans are hurting across this country. And the president is out
there campaigning? Why isn`t he governing? He doesn`t have a jobs plan
even now?


SCHULTZ: And why all the filibusters by the righties? Joining me now
is former Congressman Alan Grayson of Florida. Congressman, great to have
you with us tonight.

What did you make of Mitt Romney`s analysis of how President Obama has
handled the economy?

ALAN GRAYSON, FORMER CONGRESSMAN: Well, they are living in a dream
world. And I understand why. I mean, think about it, they are only
talking to four percent of the U.S. population. That is the number of
people who actually ever vote in a Republican primary.

So they have picked the four percent that are the angriest, most ill
informed people in the entire population. And they are all trying to cater
to them. They`re trying to make it seem like they are one of them.

Now in Romney`s case, to be fair, he has to fake it. You know, he is
not such an angry person. He`s not such an ignorant person, so he has to
actually fake being that way.

With the others, I think it comes more naturally. But they are being
angry and they`re being ignorant in ample regards here, because let`s think
about it. I mean, gee, the war in Iraq cost us four trillion dollars so
far. The president is close to finishing it off. They started that war
without having any idea top pay for it and it cost us eight percent of our
national net worth, starting in 2003.

Then in 2006, the housing market started to collapse. And I don`t
think that the free market was what was keeping it up. The free market is
what brought it down. And people have been basically slapped in the face
by the invisible hand in the housing market since 2006.

Then in 2007 and 2008, Wall Street collapsed and their answer is to
deregulate? You know, if we had proper regulations, then maybe Wall Street
wouldn`t have collapsed in the first place. If Dodd/Frank were in place,
then we wouldn`t have seen a 20 percent drop of the national net worth in
the last 18 months of the Bush administration, in 2007 and 2008.

Now that brings us to where we are right now. And it is true that we
have had a deficit. But a deficit is simply arithmetic. It`s the amount
that you take minus the amount that goes out. The amount that we`ve taken
in has been crushed because people -- many people are broke. The amount
that we have to go out -- it hasn`t increased because of new government
programs. It is not like Barack Obama wants everyone to have a pony.

It is simply because the cost of Medicare, Medicaid and all of our
social programs increase when people become more dependent on them because
of poverty. The number of food stamp recipients has inflated because more
people are hungry. More people can`t survive and support themselves. So
the difference is the deficit.

SCHULTZ: Alan, I want to get your reaction to some other sound bites
from the debate. Here is Herman Cain talking about the Occupy Wall Street


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Herman Cain, I got to ask you, you said,
quote -- two weeks ago, you said, "don`t blame Wall Street. Don`t blame
the big banks. If you don`t have a job and you`re not rich, blame

That was two weeks ago. The movement has grown. Do you still say

CAIN: Yes, I do still say that and here`s why --



SCHULTZ: It is the read med meat crowd in action. But what is your
response to their dismissal of the protests that are taking place?

GRAYSON: Well, bear in mind, this is somebody who made an entire
career out of figuring out how to paying people only eight dollars an hour
for delivering a 15 dollar pizza. I mean, what is his plan for America?
Some new topping?

This is somebody who has been out of touch with mainstream America his
entire life. He doesn`t have any idea what it is like.

SCHULTZ: What do you make of his lead in the polls, congressman?

GRAYSON: Well, I think it is shows how delusional the Republicans
really are. But to get back to your original question, it is not your
fault if you are out of work when 24 million other Americans are out of
work. It is not your fault if you lose your house when so many millions of
others are losing their house.

It is not your fault that you can`t afford to see a doctor when you
are sick when there`s 50 million Americans who are in the same boat as you
are. Why do we pretend otherwise?

Why is that the Republicans want to blame the American people for the
tragedy that the Republicans have brought on them?

SCHULTZ: Congressman Alan Grayson -- former congressman -- always a
pleasure. Great to have you with us. Always look for your take on things.
Thank you.

Coming up, when congressional Republicans can`t stop lying about
President Obama`s record, you know that the president must be getting the
upper hand. The latest lies from the Senate Republican Leader Mitch
McConnell next.


SCHULTZ: Rush Limbaugh has been called out on the Senate floor for
supporting a terrorist organization. On Friday, Rush went after President
Obama for sending military advisers to help combat an African terrorist
group that routinely rapes, tortures and murders civilians.

But Limbaugh defended the group, because they called themselves
Christian. This week, Republican Senator Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma -- and you
don`t get any more conservative than this guy -- shot down Limbaugh`s
attack on the president.


SEN. JAMES INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: Almost everyone who is reporting on
this, including my good friend Rush Limbaugh, is talking about we are going
-- these -- our guys are going to go -- and gals are going into combat.

Some people have mistakenly said that this guy is a Christian. And I
want to make sure that everyone knows that he officially was disavowed by
the Catholic church.

I stand behind the president in his decision. I don`t very often
stand behind the president, but I do in this case.


SCHULTZ: Would that be a polite scolding? Even Senator Inhofe, the
climate change denier, who endorsed Rick Perry, supports President Obama on
this issue. But Rush doesn`t think it is a big deal. He only mentioned
Inhofe`s statement to plug his sidekicks.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Dawn, Brian and Snerdly (ph) all
made their debuts on the House -- I`m sorry, the Senate floor yesterday,
all because I happened to be misinformed about something.

You are in the Congressional Record because you didn`t know something.
How does it feel? Anyway.


SCHULTZ: Oh, yeah, make a joke of it and blame it on the workers.
Rush Limbaugh has become so disconnected from reality, he thinks it`s funny
to endorse a brutal terrorist group. This might be a new low for the
figure head of the Republican party.

Still ahead, Liz Cheney joins the attack on the middle class in Ohio.


SCHULTZ: In my Playbook tonight, President Obama continues
barnstorming the country, pushing his jobs bill and blasting Republicans
for doing nothing to get Americans back to work. Senate Republican Leader
Mitch McConnell went on Bret Baier`s Fox News show today to respond to the
president`s jobs tour.

And since the facts aren`t on his side, he just made a bunch of stuff


BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: He said, "ask the Republicans what their
jobs plan would do. I`d be interested in the answer." What is the jobs

answer. We tried his approach the first two years of his administration.


SCHULTZ: Can we stop the tape and hold it right there? Bret Baier
asked McConnell a direct question: what is the jobs plan? Remember the
question as you hear McConnell`s answer. Here it is.


MCCONNELL: We tried his approach the first two years of his
administration. He owned the Congress. He got everything he wanted. He
borrowed. He spent. And we have lost 1.5 million jobs since then.

Well, the American people said that wasn`t working. They changed the
Congress. And now he is trying the do another stimulus.


SCHULTZ: I will tell you what. I don`t know how they say it with a
straight face. Let`s hold it again right here for a moment so I can
explain. First things first, he owned the Congress? He got everything he

I find it hard to believe considering Republicans in the Senate set a
record for the number of successful filibusters during President Obama`s
first two years. He got everything he wanted? I doubt it.

Then McConnell blamed the stimulus for a loss off jobs. I guess we
should remind the senator about President Obama`s record of job creation
compared to the predecessor, George W. Bush.

And Senator McConnell should read the report from the Congressional
Budget Office, a nonpartisan organization that does all of the work for the
Congress when it comes to the numbers, that said that the stimulus
increased the number of people employed by between 1.3 million and 3.5
million workers in this country.

So McConnell ignores the actual job growth under President Obama. He
ignores his own deliberate obstruction of a record of filibusters in the
Senate. He ignores the president who actually created the recession,
George W. Bush. and he ignores the growth in GDP under our current

And one more thing, he ignored the question.


BAIER: He said, ask the Republicans what their jobs plan would do.
I`d be interested in the answer. What is the jobs plan?

MCCONNELL: Well, let`s try this for an answer. We tried his approach
the first two years of his administration.


SCHULTZ: There`s a reason that he never got around to answering what
the plan is. It is because there is no Republican jobs plan. It doesn`t

I will let you know where President Obama needs to take the jobs tour
next. Here`s a hint. Liz Cheney is already there. John Nichols of "The
Nation" joins me. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: In the survey tonight I asked you, did the Republicans offer
real solutions for America tonight? Five percent of you said yes; 95
percent of you said no.

Coming up, the vote on the repeal of Senate Bill 5 in Ohio is just
weeks away. And Liz Cheney is on the ground doing the infrastructural work
for those who are pro-Senate Bill 5. They want to keep it on the books.
John Nichols with me next. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Finally tonight, President Obama is taking his bus tour to
the people once again. I think he needs to add a stop to his itinerary,
Columbus, Ohio. In just three weeks, Ohio voters will go to the polls and
decide whether or not they want to kill workers` rights, undermine public
education and hurt public services. It affects a lot of people.

Mr. President, I think you need to go to Ohio the night before the
election and tell those middle-classers that you stand with them. It is
not a political calculation at this point. It is about the people. This
is the first major test leading up to 2012.

And the majority of Ohioans want to repeal the law known as Senate
Bill 5. IT destroys collective bargaining and it balances budgets on the
backs of the workers, not the wealthy. It is Governor John Kasich`s
signature achievement.

And right now, he is scrambling to save face. And he is getting some
major help from out of state special interest groups, including a few
associated with Liz Cheney. Dear old dad was once a union man himself.
But that hasn`t stopped the younger Cheney from becoming a key player in
the Ohio game ground -- ground game.

And as the "The Nation`s" John Nichols reports, Cheney is the force
behind the entire network of organizations trying to destroy workers`
rights in Ohio. And she plans on spending big bucks to get it done.

This isn`t about one politician versus another. This is about a
victory for the people. John, great to have you with us tonight, MSNBC
contributor and Washington correspondent for "The Nation" magazine.

Liz Cheney lives in Virginia. Her kids go to a private school. What
does Liz Cheney get out of all of this?

JOHN NICHOLS, "THE NATION": Ed, the Ohio fight is the central battle
for right wingers who have really been trying for the better part of a year
now to deconstruct, to tear down all of the infrastructure of the
progressive causes: trial lawyers, labor unions, environmental groups.

And in Ohio, Governor Kasich`s law really undermines the ability of
unions to play politically. And so Liz Cheney, Karl Rove, all sorts of
names we know, are coming in big time to Ohio, to try and save Kasich`s

SCHULTZ: You write the --

NICHOLS : It`s about next year.

SCHULTZ: You write that she`s behind some deceptive mailings in the
state. How much money are Cheney`s groups spending and expected to be

NICHOLS: Well, we don`t know, Ed. And you won`t know even as this
thing plays out, until after it`s done. Last year, Liz Cheney said that
the groups she`s running were spending in the range of 120 to 15 million
dollars on a handful of Congressional races.

How much she will spend in Ohio and how much the other groups will
spend is unclear. But the "Columbus Dispatch" newspaper estimates that it
could be as much as 20 million dollars.

SCHULTZ: Well, President Obama did not go to your state of Wisconsin
to stand with the workers, although he made statements about them. Does he
need to go to Ohio? I think he does. What do you think, John?

NICHOLS: Ed, I think that there is no question. Look, this is a
clear battle lines fight. On one side, you have Dick Cheney`s daughter and
Karl Rove. You have the core people who really were responsible
politically for a lot of the economic crisis we are in.

If Barack Obama wants to draw the real lines and to say, you know,
which side are you on, there is no better place to do it than Ohio in the
next couple of weeks.

SCHULTZ: Now, I want to be very clear. President Obama has been to
Ohio and he stood at the foot of that bridge and talked about
infrastructure. I`m talking about just days before this crucial vote. I
think that the president needs to throw all of his political capital into
this. It isn`t about who wins and who loses politically. This is about
the people.

And this is about standing with middle-class workers in this country,
and also standing up for unions and protecting their right to negotiate. I
think the president needs to take a stand and go there and be there hours
before the vote to motivate people, to get them go.

I think he can make a big, big difference. This is what this fight is
all about.

John Nichols, great to have you with us tonight.

That is THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. You can listen to me on Sirius
XM channel 127, Monday through Friday, noon to 3:00 pm. And follow me on
Twitter @EdShow and @WeGotEd.

"THE LAST WORD" with Lawrence O`Donnell starts right now. We`ll see
you back here tomorrow night. Thanks for watching.


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