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The Ed Show for Thursday, October 27th, 2011

Read the transcript to the Thursday show

Guests: Jim Moran, Katrina Vanden Heuvel, Joshua Shepherd, Larry Cohen,
Krystal Ball, Steve Kornacki

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans, and welcome to THE ED SHOW
tonight from New York.

Democrats are ready to go to war politically with Paul Ryan in
Wisconsin after his reckless comments about the president.

And President Obama says if you elect Republicans, you`re on your own.

And this just in: A Tea Party group is calling for Michele Bachmann to
drop out of the race. The Bachmann team has a response. We`ll bring it to

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN: Sowing social unrest and class
resentment, that just makes America weaker, not stronger.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Paul Ryan just continues to spread his
misinformation. I think Democrats need to respond. Tonight, Congressman
Jim Moran and Katrina Vanden Heuvel of "The Nation" magazine are here.

The mayor of Oakland is changing her tune on "Occupy Oakland" as
solidarity protests continue. We`ll have the latest on injured Marine
Scott Olsen and talk to his friend who was there during the raid.

Republicans are bringing out the big dogs to bust unions in Ohio.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: You`re getting demonized. You`re getting you
beaten up.

SCHULTZ: Tonight, unions are warning the fight is closer than it

And Herman Cain won`t let his staff talk to him?

And Rick Perry would rather look like a coward than look incompetent.

was before he was before the social programs.

SCHULTZ: Steve Kornacki and Krystal Ball are here with the latest.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for

Congressman Paul Ryan of Wisconsin has started a firestorm, and some
Democrats are ready to politically go to war with him.

Congressman Jim McDermott made this explosive comment on my radio show


REP. JIM MCDERMOTT (D), WASHINGTON: The president has bent over
backwards, and I mean bent over backwards in trying to work with these
people. And they simply are not going to help him solve the problems of
this country. And I think the time has come to call them out and go to war
with them.

I mean, I don`t like that. I don`t want to do that. That`s not my
style politically.

But there is just no question that they have taken advantage of the
president`s real attempt to be conciliatory and work together and all of
that. All they`ve done is taken advantage of him.


SCHULTZ: McDermott told me hundreds of other members are more than
frustrated about the way Republicans are sabotaging this president.

McDermott thinks the president should just quit trying to work with
these jokers, the Republicans, and just go into full campaign mode. Let`s


MCDERMOTT: And I just think he ought to stop it and say, "Come on,
it`s over, game`s over, we`re going somewhere else" and really start down
the road for the next election.


SCHULTZ: I really like that. McDermott is clearly sick of
Republicans pushing garbage like this.


RYAN: Instead of appealing to the hope and optimism that were the
hallmarks to his first campaign, he has launched his second campaign by
preying on the emotions of fear, envy, and resentment. This has the
potential to be just as damaging as his misguided policies. Sowing social
unrest and class resentment makes America weaker, not stronger.


SCHULTZ: Republicans, if I remember, and President Obama have
referred to Congressman Paul Ryan as a serious economic policy thinker.
The speech Ryan gave at the far right-wing Heritage Foundation was anything
but serious.

Ryan`s speech was nothing more than a cheap political hit job on the
president, who has extended olive branch after olive branch to the opposing

President Obama isn`t playing patsy anymore. Last night, the
president warned Democrats what a Republican future looks like.


absolutely know for sure is that if we don`t work even harder than we did
in 2008 then we`re going to have a government that tells the American
people you are on your own. If you get sick, you`re on your own. If you
can`t afford college, you`re on your own. If you don`t like that some
corporation is polluting your air, or the air that your child breathes,
then you`re on your own.


SCHULTZ: The president is spot on.

Paul Ryan wanted to turn Medicare into a voucher system. Republicans
want to privatize Social Security, public schools, fire departments, and
every other institution Americans fought and died to preserve.

President Obama wants the top 0.02 percent to pay more to help create
or save 400,000 jobs. Ryan claims it won`t work.


RYAN: This notion that we should tax and redistribute toward
prosperity has been tried so many times in so many different countries, and
it just doesn`t work. We should be focused not on worrying about wealthy
people. I`m not worried about them. I`m worried about people who are not
wealthy who want to get up, make something of themselves, rise, succeed,
create businesses, go to work, and have a life that they want.


SCHULTZ: Did he say he`s not worried about the wealthy? Oh, yes, he
is. That`s all he does is protect the wealthy.

Ryan`s theory isn`t based in reality. It`s a fact.

President Obama`s economic policies have led this country to 19
straight months of private sector job growth.

Here`s another fact: President Obama`s economic policies have led
America to nine straight quarters of GDP growth.

And it is a fact the stock market was under 8,000 points on President
Bush`s last day in office. And it`s a fact the stock market closed over
12,200 points today.

If you`re in the market, you`ve got to feel good about that, even you

The only reason these numbers are not higher is because Paul Ryan and
the Republicans have done everything to kill the economy and sink the
president`s re-election effort.

It`s not radical for Democrats to think President Obama should quit
trying to work with these folks and go into the campaign mode. Republicans
don`t care about governing and are always in the campaign mode.

Paul Ryan needs to take a look in the mirror. People are in the
streets in this country because Republicans have forced discontent.
Republicans depraved indifference to the middle class in America is
selfish, undoubtedly, and it is a national shame.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: which party is dividing the country? Text A for
Republicans, text B for Democrats, 622639 is the number. And our blog is Results coming up later on in the show.

Joining me now is Virginia Congressman Jim Moran.

Congressman, good to have you with us tonight.

REP. JIM MORAN (D), VIRGINIA: Good to be with you.

SCHULTZ: I was somewhat surprised when Jim McDermott, your colleague
and friend, said that to me on the radio today, that there are some in
Congress that want the president to say OK, I`ve done all I can do, time
now to turn to the election.

Are you one of those Democrats?

MORAN: No, I`m not. And President Obama is not going to give up.
He`s going to continue to fight.

But it`s pretty clear that many in the Republican leadership, I think
most, would rather see President Obama fail than this country succeed right
now. They feel that the long-term objective is to gain control.

When you`re talking about Paul Ryan, you know, he will tell you, he`s
an acolyte at the altar of Ayn Rand. She was a cult figure in the 1960s
who preached the virtue of selfishness, basically a winner take all
economy. And, of course, that`s what we have today -- when the 400 richest
families in America have as much wealth as the bottom, the poorest 150
million Americans -- 400 versus 150 million.


MORGAN: But they would tell you that`s the way it ought to be.
That`s the natural course of things.

You know, in the first year of the recession, those 400 wealthiest
families made $300 billion more while the average American lost a quarter
of their retirement savings. But that`s OK with them because the wealthy -
- the winners in our society are doing very well. And so they think that
their philosophy is working.

But that`s not what America`s all about. They`re willing to cut the
very programs that provide upward mobility for Americans. You know, you
start with child nutrition, Head Start, public education, higher education,
giving housing subsidies for low-income families to live and middle-income
neighborhoods. Those are all the ways of upward mobility. But --

SCHULTZ: Well, Congressman --

MORGAN: -- they`re cutting all those programs.

SCHULTZ: They certainly do want to cut them and they`ve proven that,
and they don`t want to work with this president at all. So, the suggestion
is the president should go into the campaign mode.

Now, the Republicans have said no to 400,000 jobs. Now, we need a
hell of a lot more than 400,000 jobs, but this would be a start. And the
president wants 0.02 percent of Americans would be affected by this.

If they`re not going to go along with that, what are they going to go
along with? Probably nothing. Why not go into the campaign mode?

MORGAN: Because we care about this country. We`re not in it to win
campaigns. We`re in it to make a positive difference in the lives of

That`s why Barack Obama is president. I`m convinced of that. That`s
why the majority at least of my Democratic colleagues continue to fight --

SCHULTZ: So can the president accomplish anything with John Boehner
when he has the gavel in his hands?

MORGAN: You know, Ed, this is still a democracy. If your viewers and
other viewers will say, look, we`re not going to vote for you if you don`t
do the right thing, we talk about 400,000 jobs, but 280,000 of those jobs
are teachers.

Imagine what happens when you have to have 60 students per teacher in
a classroom. Nobody`s going to get educated. And that`s the next work.
That`s our future workforce.

We`re killing off the seed that --

SCHULTZ: And you think --

MORAN: -- that will strengthen the future --

SCHULTZ: And you think the American people will figure that out in
the next year. I think they will, too. But I think they`re awfully
frustrated and beyond.

Congressman, great to have you with us, my friend. Thank you. I
appreciate your time.

Now, let`s turn to Katrina Vanden Heuvel, editor and publisher of "The
Nation" magazine.

What do you think about this issue? Jim Moran -- or Jim McDermott
telling me earlier today that there are members of the Congress that think,
you know, just turn to the campaign, let`s just go, you`re not going to get
anything out of these Republicans?

KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL, THE NATION: Well, I think the president needs
to turn to the economy, to jobs, to standing with the majority of Americans
in this country, Ed, who want investment in job creation, who want to see
higher taxes on the wealthy, who want to see an end to the acceleration of
inequality and to the downward mobility.

I mean, Paul Ryan has exposed himself as a first-rate demagogue and a
class warrior for the wealthy. But he certainly has lousy timing. He
comes out the day of the Congressional Budget Office, a non-partisan
office, which reveals the acceleration of inequality over the past quarter

And what does he call for? A redistribution upwards to the
wealthiest, a regressive twisted tax code that would help the very
wealthiest. And talking about sowing envy and resentment? I mean, what`s
sowing envy and resentment in this country are the harsh economic

SCHULTZ: I want you to respond to what Congressman Ryan said on CNBC
this morning. Here it is.


RYAN: The year before the election is when you get all the
legislating done. You get the policies passed. They started the election
a long time ago.

And so, what I would say, sowing social unrest and class resentment,
that just makes America weaker, not stronger. Pitting people against each
other, preying on emotions of fear and envy, that is not what we do in
America. It`s antithetical to the American idea of upward mobility.


SCHULTZ: Has the president said anything to feed social unrest in
this country?

VANDEN HEUVEL: He has not. What he has tried to do and Democrats
have tried to do, have taken modest steps in these last weeks and months to
slow the troubling trends of inequality.

Paul Ryan is a very insidious person. But one thing I think people
need to know is he`s the darling of the elite, the establishment, in
Washington, D.C.

My colleague Ari Berman wrote a cover story for "The Nation" last week
called "How the austerity class rules Washington." And we`re seeing an
austerity class of pundits and politicians and think tanks who have
manufactured a crisis in this country of debt and deficits when the real
crisis is the jobs crisis.

And they treat this guy, congressman, as a serious man. They have
defined courage downwards by saying this man is courageous. To what? To
gut Social Security, Medicare, and programs that have brought security and
dignity to millions of Americans?

He`s on the wrong side of history.

SCHULTZ: December 23rd is a big date with this super committee.
Agreement`s got to be made.

VANDEN HEUVEL: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: The Democrats have put $1.3 trillion worth of cuts on the
table in the next decade. They want a little bit more revenue from the
wealthiest. The Republicans say no.

Where`s this all going to end up? And how aggressive should the
Democrats push for cuts?

VANDEN HEUVEL: You know, Ed, I hate to say it, but I hope this super
committee ends in failure because I think the real failure is if it comes
out with real cuts in programs that people need in this country.

SCHULTZ: They`ll hurt people.

VANDEN HEUVEL: That will hurt people.

I mean, I think we lose sight of the fact that when someone like Paul
Ryan talks about fiscal responsibility, it means balancing the budgets on
the backs of working people and the middle class.

Now, the Democrats have to step up their game. The Congressional
Progressive Caucus with their people`s budget is the only common sense
budget in my view.

And the president, you know, I think he should look at the wind behind
his back. Who`s he going to stand with? He has so much support, the mood
in this country. It`s going to be tough but it`s shifting.

SCHULTZ: I want to ask you about that because this story right here
with the way he`s coming out, claiming the president is sowing the seeds of
social unrest, all the obstruction that he`s been through, and I know you
follow this. What`s this going to do to the vote in Ohio? What`s this
going to do to the recall of Walker in Wisconsin?

I mean, I think it`s a domino effect. Your thoughts.

VANDEN HEUVEL: I mean, I hope it is. I mean, one thing that is clear
is the force of money unleashed by the Citizens United decision, which
allowed corporate money to flow, and we`ve seen it in Ohio. But there is a
sense in this country finally of fairness, of taking back a government that
stands for people and isn`t rigged against their interests.

So, I think there could be a domino effect, and it`s not just "Occupy
Wall Street." It`s the supercharging of what is going on in this country,
the sense finally of accountability and holding Wall Street accountable,
and holding financial institutions and multinational corporations
accountable and letting people finally have a fair shake.

SCHULTZ: We haven`t heard a congressman talk about a president the
way Paul Ryan has talked about President Obama in such accusatory -- in
such an accusatory manner about the way he is operating in the White House
and trying to accomplish something. And then to accuse the president of
sowing social unrest --

VANDEN HEUVEL: You know, but we`ve heard Eric Cantor, we`ve heard
Boehner. But I have to say -- I think we all need to toughen up. I mean,
politics is a tough game. Let`s do it for people, not just for money and

But Franklin Roosevelt faced some pretty tough adversaries. Let`s
fight for the people. That`s my --

SCHULTZ: And you are a fighter for the people.

VANDEN HEUVEL: Well, I just think we need some fairness in this
country at long last because we`re seeing the statistics and we`re seeing a
new Gilded Age, and I think we don`t want to revert in this country to the
worst traits. And I see that in what Paul Ryan and some of his colleagues
are saying.

SCHULTZ: No question about it.

Katrina, always a pleasure. Great to have you with us tonight.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know what
you think.

Coming up: Iraq war veteran Scott Olsen is still in an Oakland,
California, hospital tonight. His friend Josh Shepherd (ph) was with him
at the "Occupy" protest and will join me. He`ll tell us what happened.

And Ohio voters want to put an end to Governor Kasich`s union-busting
law. But union leaders are warning their members about a real tough fight
ahead. We`ll tell you about it.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: When the Republicans took over Congress, this was their
battle cry.


are continuing to ask the question, where are the jobs?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number one question in America continues to be
where are the jobs?

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), MAJORITY LEADER: We have been focused on one
thing, and that is job creation.

BOEHNER: Where are the jobs?


SCHULTZ: Oh, yes. Republicans insisted that they would create jobs
by cutting vital government programs. In fact, they threatened to shut the
government down unless they got their way.

The GOP succeeded and slashed programs that helped women and children,
law enforcement, and the environment. And now, a new report from the
Center for American Progress shows that those so-called job-creating cuts
did just the opposite.

They killed nearly 400,000 jobs in this country. Proof once again, if
you want to know the answer to "where are the jobs?" -- don`t ask the GOP.

Coming up -- he survived two tours of duty in Iraq, only to be
critically injured in the streets of Oakland. "Occupy" protester Scott
Olsen is still in a California hospital tonight. I`ll talk with his
friend, Josh Shepherd, who was there, when Olsen was hit by police. Stay



MAYOR JEAN QUAN (D), OAKLAND, CA: Oakland is a city that wants peace
and progress. Most of the people, 99 percent of the people who were out
there, both police and demonstrators, yesterday were peaceful. I`m really
saddened by what happened.


SCHULTZ: The fallout continues over Tuesday`s violent clash in
Oakland, California, between "Occupy" protesters and law enforcement.

And now, Oakland Mayor Jean Quan is backing off her initial tough
talk, commending police action. Quan first praised police for shutting
down a protest camp that led to chaos in the streets. Now, she says she is
committed to minimizing police presence in the protest area in hopes of
building a community effort to improve communications and dialogue with the

Oakland police used tear gas after officers were hit with bottles and
other projectiles, rubber bullets and flash grenades were also reportedly
used on protesters by other law enforcement agencies. And authorities say
they are investigating an incident involving 24-year-old Scott Olsen.

Olsen survived two tours of duty in Iraq. He`s a veteran. He was
critically injured with a fractured skull after getting hit with a


SCHULTZ: Olsen remains in an Oakland hospital, but his condition has
been upgraded to fair. Vigils across America are honoring Olsen are
planned for tonight.

Joining me now is Joshua Shepherd. Josh is a friend of Scott Olsen
and was at the Occupy Oakland" protests with Scott. He is also a veteran
of the United States Navy.

Great to have you with us tonight. I appreciate your time, Josh.


SCHULTZ: "The L.A. Times" is reporting that Scott will undergo
surgery to relieve pressure on his brain. Can you tell us anything? Do
you know anything about that?

SHEPHERD: Yes. Scott was removed from his breathing machine. He`s
listed in fair condition. But yeah, it is still a very significant injury.
And we`re maintaining optimism, but we are still very cautious.

SCHULTZ: Josh, what happened? Explain to our audience tonight what
you went through, what you saw.

SHEPHERD: I arrived in Oakland after the protests had already began.
You know, it seemed largely peaceful before the police initiated their
barrage of action against the entire crowd. It was the first time I`ve
ever experienced anything like that. I served in the Navy. I was a
computer tech on board a ship. I`d never seen combat.

And as much as I can tell, that was as close to a war zone as it could
have gotten. I wasn`t aware until after we`d regrouped a couple blocks
away that it was in fact Scott, my friend, who was hit and injured.

SCHULTZ: Did you think Scott did anything violent to deserve this?

SHEPHERD: Oh, absolutely not. In videos prior to the initiation by
the police, he can be seen standing shoulder to shoulder with me at the
police barricade. Very peacefully, I was waving my "Veterans for Peace"
flag. And we were peacefully assembling and demonstrating our First
Amendment right.

SCHULTZ: Police say that they were getting hit. Do you believe the
police were using tear gas and projectiles?

SHEPHERD: You know, they`re -- I did see throughout the evening,
there were instances where people threw things at the police. I also got
the sense that the police were waiting for anything like that to unleash on
the entire crowd.

This is a situation where these guys are sworn to protect and serve
the populace of the city of Oakland. They have to practice immense
restraint in protecting these people. They`re supposed to protect us,
number one. And they were not in imminent danger, but they certainly put
everybody in the crowd in imminent danger.

SCHULTZ: Are you saying that, Josh, that you think the police

SHEPHERD: Certainly. And their mere presence elevated the tension.
And judging by the reports of what it may have cost the city of Oakland to
put on such a show of force, it`s extremely just confusing to me -- at such
a time in our economy and our nation.

SCHULTZ: Joshua, give us a sense of the demeanor of the crowd. Were
they provoked in any way? Because of the position of the police? Or how
did it explode into something like this?

SHEPHERD: Well, I had been down to "Occupy Oakland" prior to the raid
early on Tuesday morning. And I had seen a high level of organization.

If you look at the before and after photos of their camp, it was a
great site. You know, it was an active demonstration of participatory
democracy in redressing grievances against the government -- followed up by
the just devastating raid by the police early Tuesday morning.

SCHULTZ: It was a raid?

SHEPHERD: Absolutely. Yes. It was a coordinated, tactical raid on
the camp at Frank Ogawa Plaza. And --

SCHULTZ: The mayor says that she stands with the movement and the
police say that they are going to investigate what happened to Scott. Is
that enough? What more should they do, if anything?

SHEPHERD: Excuse me. It sounds like evasive posturing to me. I --
you know, she`s in hot water. And she obviously wants to avoid

I think that this is big, you know? It`s not just Oakland. It`s
across the country, where people are facing increasing police crackdowns
for demonstrating their First Amendment rights.


SHEPHERD: This isn`t what I served for.

SCHULTZ: It isn`t what you served for.

So, based on what you saw in Oakland, there was really no reason for
this to spiral out of control. And do you think the crowd provoked this?

SHEPHERD: Tensions were high on, you know, both sides, as they will
be at any point when police, you know, are telling protesters if and when
they can protest against the very system they`re protesting against. It`s
just absurd.

SCHULTZ: Joshua Shepherd, I appreciate your time tonight. And
certainly the best to your friend Scott Olsen. We will continue to follow
this story. Thank you so much.

SHEPHERD: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Up next, we have a double dose of "Psycho Talk." Pat
Robertson doesn`t think Christians should join the 99 percent movement.
And Donald Trump is back on the board with the birther crazy train.

And the ultimate dysfunction of Congress. A memory to a slain staffer
of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords has overwhelming bipartisan support.
So, why is it taking so long?

That`s coming up. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in "psycho talk" tonight, well, we`ve got a double dose.
Doubleheader. Since it`s almost the end of the baseball season. First up,
Pat Robertson. Here`s his response to a viewer question about whether
Christians should join the 99 percent movement.


PAT ROBERTSON, HOST, THE 700 CLUB: Why are they there? Well, they`re
just mad. Well, is it right for a Christian just to get involved in a
protest of anger? If you`re going to demonstrate, demonstrate for
righteousness. Demonstrate to lift the yoke of oppression. Demonstrate to
help those that are poverty-stricken. But don`t just go out and mess up a
park and just scream and tear up things.


SCHULTZ: I think Pat Robertson has been watching too much FOX News.
The 99 percenters are not just screaming and tearing things up. In fact,
they`re doing exactly what Robertson just advocated. They`re demonstrating
for righteousness. They`re demonstrating to lift the yoke of oppression.
And they`re demonstrating to help those who are poverty stricken.

Saying Christians shouldn`t get involved in the 99 percent movement
makes Pat Robertson our first "psycho talk" offender of the night. But we
couldn`t leave this guy out. I always said Donald Trump`s presidential
candidacy was a joke, and his obsession with President Obama`s birth
certificate was just a plea for attention. And he keeps proving me right.
Even though Trump`s not running for president, he`s still begging for
attention with the birth-er nonsense.


was born in America? Now.

DONALD TRUMP, BUSINESSMAN: I say he might have been. It took a long
time to produce the certificate. And when it came out, as you know, you
check out the internet. Many people say it`s not real. OK? That it`s a


SCHULTZ: Check out the internet. The internet! Is Trump`s proof?
President Obama`s birth certificate isn`t real? Give me a break. You can
find people on the internet who don`t think the holocaust was real or who
don`t think the moon landing actually took place. There are even folks on
the internet who don`t think Donald Trump`s hair is real. Hard to believe,

Meanwhile, the internet will tell you unicorns, UFOs, and Mitt
Romney`s conservative credentials are real. So for Trump to say President
Obama`s birth certificate is fake because you can`t find it on the internet
is ridiculous psycho talk.

Mitt Romney has brought national attention to Ohio`s fight for labor
rights. Thank you. Sometimes a flip-flop can be a very good thing. Rick
Perry wants to skip the debates. And a tea party group calls on Michele
Bachmann to quit the presidential race. It`s all coming up. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to "The Ed Show." I think Mitt Romney just did
a huge favor for the labor movement in this country. A renewed focus is on
Ohio`s labor fight ever since Romney flip-flopped on his support of the
buckeye state`s union-busting law.

The Democratic National Committee is highlighting the gaffe in a new
Web add. It says, "Romney can`t clarify his position on issue two because
he`s running for office for Pete`s sake." So, last night Governor Kasich,
well, he called in the heavy artillery and the cavalry and everybody else.
He rolled out the red carpet for Sean Hannity, who did a special pro issue
2 Broadcast from the Ohio state house.


SEAN HANNITY, HOST, SEAN HANNITY SHOW: You`re getting demonized.
You`re getting beaten up. You have literally millions of dollars of ads
now, what, $60 million I think --

GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: I would think it would be close to

HANNITY: They`re busing in union people from around the country. I
know because I met one of the bus drivers. And unions are given free
weekends in Ohio for people that will come and protest you.


SCHULTZ: Sean Hannity never met a number he couldn`t fudge. Campaign
finance reports released today show the anti-issue 2 group, we are Ohio,
raised about $30 million, not 60. And the group fully discloses its union
donations. Unlike the pro-issue 2 group which will not reveal donor

But it looks like Kasich`s supporters need to spend more money on
advertising. The pro-issue 2 message just doesn`t seem to be sinking in
with some people.


SCHULTZ: How are you going to vote on issue 2 in Ohio?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Personally. You know, I haven`t made a decision
on that, to be honest with you.


SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in Larry Cohen, president of the communication
workers of America, a new Quinnipiac poll shows Ohio voters, Larry, are
overwhelmingly opposed to issue to 57 percent say the law should be
repealed. Only 32 percent say leave it alone. But an internal progress
Ohio memo just picked up by the "Ed Show" producers issued a warning to
labor "make no mistake. This race will tighten between now and Election

So, how tough a fight is this going to be, Mister Cohen? What do you
think? What`s your call on this?

that Ohioans will stand up for workers` rights. I was out in Columbus
knocking on doors. And by the way, I was out with 150 people who lived in
Columbus that night. I was the only one who didn`t live there who went

And what was amazing Ed was you knock on these doors in suburban
Columbus and people knew the issue. They knew they were standing up for
police and teachers and public workers, and even though they weren`t
themselves, they knew the issue and they knew that it`s about rights and
that America`s about rights and that democracy does not stop at the
workplace door.

And they actually asked me, could I have more leaflets because I want
to take this into my workplace. It was amazing. The energy of the
canvassers and the energy of the people in Clintonville, in that

SCHULTZ: Kasich was fear mongering about firefighters on the program
last night. Here it is.


KASICH: In one community here just south of Columbus they just laid
off 14 firefighters today because they don`t have enough money to meet the


SCHULTZ: Why won`t the governor address the safety issues caused by
Senate bill five?

COHEN: Well, I mean, as you said earlier, when you cut these jobs,
number one, in that case you have safety issues. Number two this is what`s
destroying the economy. If people don`t have decent-paying jobs and they
have no rights, they can`t buy anything. And the economy continues to
unwind and unwind as long as these cuts continue. And whether it`s public
or private sector, Americans are standing up. That`s what the occupy
movement is about. We are the 99 percent. We`re standing up for our
rights. We`re standing up for the American dream. And we`re fighting
back. Issue 2, the people are going to win. Working people will maintain
their rights in Ohio, Ed. I`m confident of it.

SCHULTZ: You know, last night it was interesting. Our producers are
telling me that of the 35 minutes in that program where the governor was
with the host, firefighters, police, and public safety was only mentioned
one time. I mean, it`s obvious they`re taking cues from Karl Rove. But
they did attack union bosses and union members. And anytime they do that
they get the negative reaction that they want. And they`re going to use
that kind of verbiage to turn public opinion. Will it work?

COHEN: It won`t work. I think Ohioans understand what`s going on in
their own state. Every city in that state is devastated by cuts in
manufacturing. The kind of trade policy we`ve had for years. And they
will stand up for each other. And again, it`s not just public sector. Its
public sector workers understanding that when private sector workers lose
benefits, we all lose.

Public sector workers lose benefits or pay. We all lose. We can`t go
to the store. We can`t stimulate the economy. And you know tax cut
gimmicks are not going to do it. We need rights so that we can bargain,
not put employers out of business, whether public or private sector, but
bargain, get our share of the productivity increases of the last 30 years,
and bring this economy back and restore the American dream.

SCHULTZ: And Mister Cohen, if you could put it in perspective for us
tonight, what if workers in this country in Ohio don`t get a successful
conclusion on this? How big of a hit would this be to union workers in
this country and to the standard of living and also the message that it
would send out of Ohio? How important is this vote in your opinion?

COHEN: This vote is critical to send a message across the country
that in a key state like Ohio that`s key in every way, it`s key in our
economy, it`s key in our political life, that people in Ohio will stand up
for each other. Instead of a race to the bottom that we start racing to
the top. That`s what made this country great.

And I`m convinced that on November 8th Ohioans are going to say you
know what, it`s time we start racing for the top. We want the best rights
for workers in the world, the best political democracy. We`re tired of the
race to the bottom, and we`re going to show it with our voting that day.

SCHULTZ: Larry Cohen, the communication workers of America. Great to
have you with us. Thank you so much.

COHEN: Thanks. My pleasure.

SCHULTZ: A resolution to honor the slain staff member of
Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords has overwhelming support, but it stalled
in the dysfunctional House of Representatives. House Speaker John Boehner
tries to explain why.


SCHULTZ: While Fox news is desperate to dig up some kind of scandal
on the Obama administration, here`s the network`s latest attempt involving
President Obama`s memoirs.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Government records show that the state
department purchased more than $70,000 worth of his three books for use in
embassies around the world.


SCHULTZ: Oh. Sounds really sinister, doesn`t it? But White House
Press Secretary Jay Carney shot down any conspiracies. He said individual
embassies around the world buy these books and use them as diplomacy tools.
They do the same thing with President Clinton`s book and with George W.
Bush`s book. But FOX keeps trying.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Well, there`s no evidence the White House
knew about these book buys. The president does still collect royalties on
some of these titles. So he likely made a few thousand dollars here,


SCHULTZ: Don`t you think they deserve to have W`s picture up there
with the president? Because he sold books, too. Yes, President Obama gets
royalties from his books. And he gives more to charity every year than he
would ever get from royalties on these books sold to embassies. Sorry,
FOX, this scandal just isn`t ready for prime time.

Still to come, Rick Perry identifies his greatest weakness, speaking
in public. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: In my "playbook" tonight, if you want to know just how
dysfunctional Congress is, maybe this story will give you a really good

A resolution to honor the slain staffer of Congresswoman Gabby
Giffords` is stalled. Even though it has overwhelming bipartisan support.
The community outreach director for Giffords was the first congressional
staffer ever killed in the line of duty, Gabe Zimmerman. Would be honored
by having a room in the capitol visitor`s center named after him. The
resolution has 385 co-sponsors.

But when asked why the resolution is going nowhere, a spokesman for
house majority leader Eric Cantor directed questions to the House Speaker
John Boehner, according to the Huffington Post. And initially, Boehner`s
office had no comment, but after this story brewed for a while today,
Boehner`s office said it was committed to constructing a more permanent
memorial in another location. In fact, Speaker Boehner met this morning
with Giffords` husband, Captain Mark Kelly. While we`re finalizing the
last few details and are not ready to announce plans publicly at this
point, any member of Congress interested in this issue has had ample
opportunity to discuss it with the speaker."

The shooting in Arizona in January was one of the worst moments for
this country in recent memory. Six people died, including Gabe Zimmerman.
Congresswoman Giffords was severely wounded and is still recovering. The
bipartisan support for her and the victims was overwhelming. So there
shouldn`t be any need to put pressure on the speaker`s office. The
memorial for the staffer Gabe Zimmerman should have already happened by

Rick Perry is going to skip some of those pesky debates because you
know, debates are just full of words and sentences and all kinds of stuff
like that. And a tea party group says it`s time for Michele Bachmann to
go. That`s next.


SCHULTZ: And tonight in our survey I asked which party is dividing
the country? Eighty nine percent said Republicans, 11 percent say

Coming up, Rick Perry says he`ll create two and a half million jobs as
president. That means he`d accomplish in four years what our current
president has done in 18 months. That`s next.



amendment, was it -- was before he was before the social programs from the
standpoint of he was for standing up for roe versus wade before he was
against verse roe versus wade.


SCHULTZ: All right. Welcome back to "The Ed Show." After
presidential debates like that Rick Perry has a new strategy. Just skip
them. His campaign says that he might not do any more debates after the
one coming up in Michigan.

"We said we would do Michigan," Perry`s spokesman said. "But the
primaries are around the corner and you know you have to use your time
accordingly." The Perry camp is spending its time with more friendly media
outlets like FOX News. And in his first national TV ad campaign Perry put
a hard number on his jobs plan for America.


PERRY: As president I`ll create at least two and a half million new


SCHULTZ: What was that number? Hold it right here a second, two and
a million new jobs? Don`t you think that`s kind of an interesting number?
Because the guy, the current president, did it in a year and a half. The
economy created 2.56 million private sector jobs from March 2010 through
September 2011. It`s not enough. And President Obama has said it
repeatedly. But it`s still two and a half million jobs in a year and a
half. Perry promises to do it in four years. Or is it eight? He didn`t

Joining me now us Krystal Ball, Democratic strategist and former
candidate to the United States congress and Steve Kornacki, political
columnist for

Great to have both of you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: Perry can choose to look incompetent in debates, or he can
be like a coward and skip it. What do you think?

BALL: It`s kind of a darned if you do, darned if you don`t moment,
isn`t it? I mean here`s the thing. If you`re an incumbent, it can make
sense to skip debates because you can only go down. Right? If you`re the
front-runner, if you`re the incumbent, you can make mistakes and go down in
the debate. When you are at six percent nationwide, you need every chance
you can get to make the case to the American people that you`re worthy of
being commander in chief.

So to me just politically it`s a huge mistake for him.

SCHULTZ: What do you think? Does he have the money to recover for

question of money. He had a quote the other night I think it was on the
O`Reilly show where he said his problem with these debates is they only
give him 60 seconds and he can`t squeeze all he wants to say into 60
seconds. And you play that clip before the guy can`t get six seconds out
of coherent talk.


BALL: It`s too substantive for 60 seconds. That`s the problem.

SCHULTZ: Well, you know Newt Gingrich is going up in the polls. He`s
up to 10 percent in the "New York Times" poll. So he`s on a roll for Newt.
Newt did fire back. He said, "I don`t see how somebody can say that they
can`t debate Rick Santorum or Newt Gingrich or Ron Paul but they`ll be
ready to debate Barack Obama. I think Governor Perry would find it an
enormous mistake to not go to the debates. And I think that frankly he`d
look pretty silly."

BALL: Yes. Well and here`s the other thing. Newt Gingrich also said
that it was kind of a seventh grade lunchroom dynamic. And in that dynamic
Mitt Romney is the like sanctimonious teacher`s pet. Rick Perry was
supposed to be the school bully. But he`s being intimidated by the
teacher`s pet right now. At least he could keep sort of a macho persona.
Instead it looks like he`s running scared.

KORNACKI: You know, another thing I think, and this is one of the
consequences I think, one of the reasons for Perry that he`s struggled so
much in these debates, is the right is so obsessed with Barack Obama and
his communication skills. He this make all the teleprompter jokes.

A lot of people on the right I think have really convinced themselves
that this guy only won because he gives a good speech and he comes across
well on television. So they are more mindful I think than they`ve ever
been about having a good television candidate to run against him. And I
think that`s one of the reasons why do these debates have been so
devastating to Perry because he`s just been so terrible in them.

SCHULTZ: Alright, what about the math here? If Perry created 2.5
million new jobs, that would be just 10 percent of the 25 million jobs the
country needs. Sales pitch isn`t going to work, is it?

BALL: Well, and not to mention the numbers are very, very optimistic
and sort of sprinkled with the magical Republican fairy dust to start with.
It`s basically -- it`s really not an economic plan. It`s a political plan
filled with conservative goodies.

SCHULTZ: And a tea party group is calling on Michele Bachmann to quit
the presidential race. The president of the American majority says "it`s
time for Michele Bachmann to go. Every day the campaign flounders, it
risks hurting credibility of the movement." What do you think?

KORNACKI: It`s the best press she`s gotten in a week, I think.
Somebody`s finally talking about her again. I mean, the problem for the
tea party movement is, fine, you get Bachmann out of the way. They want to
unite around someone to go after Romney. They still don`t have anybody.
And we`re two months away from Iowa.

SCHULTZ: Herman Cain. His e-mail from his staff saying traveling in
a car you can`t speak to him unless he speaks to you. Is that the way the
White House is going to be?

BALL: He`s a man of the people, right?

SCHULTZ: Is that the way the White House is going to be if he wins?

BALL: Wouldn`t even let his own staff speak to him.

SCHULTZ: Don`t talk unless you`re spoken to.

KORNACKI: Mister Cain.

SCHULTZ: He wouldn`t work in TV, would he?


SCHULTZ: We need people that talk. Krystal Ball, Steve Kornacki,
great to have you with us again tonight. Thanks so much.

And we want to update you quickly on the story of Scott Olsen, who was
hospitalized after being hit in the head today, at Tuesday`s occupy protest
in Oakland California. Our guest Josh Shepherd just called us to let us
know that Scott won`t need to have surgery to release the pressure on his
brain. At a hospital news conference moments ago they announced surgery
wouldn`t be needed and the prognosis is overall favorable.

That`s "The Ed Show." I`m Ed Schultz.

And I doggone it, I`ll have to show you this thing that I`ve got tomorrow
night because I`m running out of time. Rachel, I think you`ll -- it`s
actually breaking news that the Republicans have agreed on something. And
I`ll tell you about it tomorrow night when we have more time.


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