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The Ed Show for Tuesday, November 1, 2011

Read the transcript to the Tuesday show

Guests: Robert Reich, Scott Paul, Bernie Sanders, Mike Papantonio, Krystal Ball, Wayne Slater

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.

As Herman Cain twists in the wind, some of the other Republican
candidates went to the middle of the country, Iowa, to talk about jobs.
They were all hat and no cattle.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


getting Americans back to work on the energy side of things.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Today in Iowa, Republican candidates took on
the most important issue in America -- jobs. And they all totally whiffed.


us to death.



SCHULTZ: Tonight, former Labor Secretary Robert Reich and Scott Paul
of the Alliance for American Manufacturing will set them all straight.

The 99 percent movement gets a major victory with the Bank of America.

And Social Security is now on the table for the supercommittee.
Senator Bernie Sanders isn`t having it, and he`s here tonight.

Reports say Herman Cain`s accuser now wants to come forward -- as the
pizza man`s story keeps evolving.

HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don`t even remember. They
were so ridiculous, I don`t remember what they are.

SCHULTZ: Mike Papantonio and Krystal Ball on the latest Herman Cain
deep dish.

And Rick Perry finally has an explanation for this.

PERRY: Texas Rangers after 50 years are going to win the World
Series. Oops.

SCHULTZ: We`ll tell you what he`s saying now.

PERRY: Live free or die, victory or death. Bring it.


SCHULTZ: Great to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for

Now, I know that Herman Cain is the hot cable story that`s out there
and may be for days, but isn`t it about jobs if we want our economy to turn
around? Republicans have done everything they can to block President
Obama`s jobs programs since he was sworn into office.

Today in Iowa, I was there on Saturday, today it was the turn of the
Republicans. This is where they went to talk about jobs, where jobs are
being lost. Some of the Republican 2012 candidates held what was called a
manufacturing forum. How fitting.

The candidates went to the middle of the country and gave them
Washington speak.


BACHMANN: We need the federal government to get off our back when it
comes to taxes. You`re taxing us to death. I will repeal Obamacare and
also Dodd/Frank. I wrote that bill as well to repeal Dodd/Frank.

PAUL: We have too much taxes, too much regulation. If we cut
spending and taxes and regulations and do the right things, the jobs will
become available.

GINGRICH: You should repeal Dodd/Frank immediately. It`s killing
small banks. It`s killing small business, killing housing. I`m for zero
capital gains tax. I`m for 12.5 percent corporate tax rate.

SANTORUM: I`d repeal Dodd/Frank. I think one of the biggest thing we
can do is repeal Obamacare. My tax bill lowers rates and simplifies the


SCHULTZ: Bring the jobs back to America. That`s what the
conversation was supposed to be all about. Now, these answers, these four
Republican candidates gave, will do nothing to bring the 5.5 million
manufacturing jobs America has lost since the year 2000.

Cutting taxes did nothing to stop the 50,000 American factories from
closing their doors during the Bush years. They had the tact cuts and they
shut the damn doors.

Isn`t it ironic Republicans came to Pella, Iowa, to give their take on
manufacturing jobs? Pella, Iowa -- it`s just 30 miles away from where I
was on Saturday in Newton, Iowa, where my wife and I met the salt of the
earth middle class Americans who worked for Maytag.

Whirlpool bought Maytag in 2006. They closed the plant, left 1,500
people in the dust. And the great Americans I met, you know what? They
weren`t complaining about Dodd/Frank or Obamacare.

You know what they did talk about? They looked me in the eye and
talked about fairness. They don`t understand how the wealthiest Americans
-- you know, Ed, that graph you show there with the red line up there and
the blue line down there, that`s what they talked about. They talked about
income inequality in this country and talked about who`s bringing our jobs

Working class Americans know corporate greed is what`s killing the
American Dream. Republicans have no answer when Whirlpool shuts down
American companies and ships the jobs overseas.

By the way, those jobs from Ft. Smith, Arkansas, they`re going to

Rick Perry was asked a direct question about Whirlpool workers in Ft.
Smith, Arkansas, losing their jobs and he dodged it big-time.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whirlpool announced it`s closing a plant in
Arkansas, losing 5,000 jobs. If your tax plan was implemented with the
flat tax, optional flat tax, what would that mean for those workers losing
jobs today before Election Day?

PERRY: Well, there are a number of parts of my -- not only my jobs
plan, but my tax plan. I want to talk about the jobs plan first, about
getting Americans back to work on the energy side of things. Without
having to go to Congress, without asking anything, signing my name to
executive orders and to executive actions, you could open up these western
lands for our energy side of things and putting some people back to work
almost immediately.

It`s been more off of the regulatory side. When you think about
Obamacare, when you think about the EPA.


SCHULTZ: Do you really think Obamacare made Pella windows make the
decision that they`re making around the country? Do you really think that
Obamacare and deregulation set the table for Whirlpool to do what they did
to those workers?

The question is: what are you going to do to bring the jobs back to
the middle of the country, where outsourcing is ripping families apart?

Well, the moderator pressed Perry for a better answer, so he asked
another direct question.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Perry, Whirlpool, when announced those
5,000 job cuts, they didn`t cite regulations, though. The company cited
consumer demand. That was why they were cutting jobs here in the United

PERRY: But you understand why there`s consumer demand being lost out
there. I mean, the people have lost confidence, Mary, that they can go and
risk their capital. I mean, that`s what`s going on in America.

For three years, we`ve had a president of the United States that has
sent a clear message that they do not believe in the free market enterprise
of which I grew up with. They believe that if we would stimulate the
economy with more federal money, that if we would pitch more dollars out
into the economy, that it would create jobs. We know that doesn`t work.


SCHULTZ: My Lord, did he say that President Obama isn`t for the free
market? How much more help can the president of the United States give to
the financial sector?

Perry is exactly wrong and off base. Federal spending has spurred the
economy into 19 straight months of private sector job growth. Perry
doesn`t have a clue on how to save Whirlpool jobs. But at least he showed
up today. I give him credit for that.

You see? Iowa frontrunner Herman Cain -- he was a no show. The pizza
man has a direct connection to Whirlpool. Herman Cain supervised the
firing of thousands of Iowa workers as a member of the Whirlpool board of
directors. How inconvenient for him to show up today. So he didn`t.

The Republican candidates who came to Pella, really a nightmare
waiting to happen for anyone who earns a living in the manufacturing
sector. Pella, Iowa, is famous for one thing. That is making windows and

Now, Pella Windows and Doors, you know, they have been around a long
time. They`ve been in Iowa since 1925. Deregulation led to the crash of
2007 and Pella has lost market share ever since. What have they done?
Well, they cut 20 percent of its workforce over the last five years and the
numbers are growing. Pella is going to shut down a plant in Fairfield,
Ohio, next year, which will eliminate 160 jobs.

Last Wednesday, Pella announced they`re shutting down a factory in
Columbia, South Carolina, laying off 147 people by the end of the year.

No Republican, not one, has any answer for those folks. It`s all Wall
Street, Washington talk. Every Republican candidate wants to reward the
job eliminators and just spit on the job doers.

NAFTA-loving Newt Gingrich is considered to be the big thinker in the
Republican field. This is what he offered Middle America today.


GINGRICH: You have an anti-petroleum and anti-coal administration and
the richest country in the world for energy. Obama is a left wing radical
who believes in class warfare and then he`s surprised that everybody who he
is attacking doesn`t create jobs. What does he think was going to happen?


SCHULTZ: Iowa, the middle of the country, a very focused conversation
about what are you going to do to bring back manufacturing jobs? In a
sector of the economy where we`ve lost almost 6 million jobs, 50,000
factories with employees at 25 and over.

You see this chart? There it is again. The red line, that`s who the
Republicans are rooting for and that`s who they are protecting. Every time
you hear about a job being outsourced to another country, you`re talking
about the blue liners. These middle classers down here.

Here are the Whirlpool employees. Here are the Maytag employees.
Here are the Pella Window employees. And here`s where the red liners go.

Every time that there is a job shipped overseas, it hurts the blues
and it skyrockets the income of the red liners, the top 1 percent and 2

And Republicans today, I guess you could say in the belly of the
beast, the middle of the country, where jobs are being lost, they had all
the same garbage they have at all the debates. Tax cuts for the wealthy.

Not one person that I talked to 30 miles away from Pella, Iowa, on
Saturday said, "I need a tax cut." No. They said they need a freakin` job
and they wanted to know why the rich who have gotten all the tax cuts in
recent years, two of them in 2003, or 2001 and 2003 -- where are the jobs?

Outsourcing has butchered our economy and the Republicans have
absolutely no solution other than Washington speak, even in the middle of
the country.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question: Are Republicans responsible for killing manufacturing jobs in
America? Text "A" for yes and text "B" for no to 622639. Our blog, We love your comments and will bring you the results later
in the show.

Joining me are: Robert Reich, former secretary of labor, now a policy
professor at U.C.-Berkeley and author of the book "Aftershock." Scott
Paul, executive director, the Alliance for American Manufacturing. They
have the numbers.

Professor, good to have you with us tonight. And, Scott, thank you so


SCHULTZ: I want to start with you, Professor. How have the
deregulatory policies the Republicans put in place killed manufacturing in
his country? It is all about deregulation, is it not?

REICH: A big part of it is deregulation, Ed. I mean, they
deregulated Wall Street which means essentially every major American
company is designed now for only one purpose, and that is to increase the
value of the shares on Wall Street. Not to create employment, not to help
communities, not to deal with any other stakeholder at all except Wall
Street and financial markets. That`s it.

And until we get a set of regulations, a set of understandings that
this economy is about jobs and wages, it`s not just about profits. It`s
not just about Wall Street. Then we are not going to be able to turn the
economy around.

Ed, one more thing. You know, these Republicans, what they again and
again say is that corporations and the rich need more tax cuts,
corporations need more deregulation because if they just had more money,
they would create more jobs. Well, what they don`t say is right now big
corporations in this country are sitting on $2 trillion of cash.


REICH: That`s a record amount of cash. They don`t know what to do
with it except buy back their own shares of stock. And also, they don`t
say that the ratio of corporate profits right now to wages is the largest
it`s been since before the Great Depression. I mean, anybody who says
corporations need more money in order to create jobs doesn`t know what they
are thinking about.


REICH: The reason they`re not creating jobs is because there`s not
enough demand. The reason there`s not enough demand is because consumers
are worried about their jobs. They don`t have enough money. Their wages
are dropping. That`s why there`s not enough demand.

SCHULTZ: Well, Mr. Reich, exactly what you just said is exactly what
I heard in Iowa on Saturday.

Scott, what would the unemployment rate be if America hadn`t of lost
the 5.5 million manufacturing jobs? Let`s say that America got really
competitive and said, you know what, we`re going to beat other countries
and we are going to really, really go after the manufacturing sector, we`re
going to add jobs. We`re got going to lose jobs, we`re going to add
manufacturing jobs.

If we hadn`t have lost the 5.5 million manufacturing jobs, what would
the unemployment rate look like?

rate would be about 5 percent which would seem pretty good compared to what
it is right now. We would have added about 8 million jobs overall to the
economy if manufacturing would have grown along with the rest of the
economy. Our trade deficit in manufactured goods wouldn`t have quadrupled
by 400 percent. And so, we wouldn`t be borrowing as much from China.

Ed, here`s a fact that will shock your viewers, I think. Nearly every
state budget in the entire United States would be in balance if we had just
held our share of manufacturing jobs over the last decade, because of the
value and the income that that brings into the rest of the economy.

SCHULTZ: So, Professor, what can we do? We have a Congress that
won`t even talk to one another. In the meantime, we`ve got people in the
middle of the country who are seeing their jobs go overseas. What`s the

I mean, these people are in the streets protesting right now. What`s
the remedy?

REICH: Ed, number one, right now, we don`t cut the federal budget.
We create jobs and we get better wages. That`s the number one objective.

And anybody who says that we have to cut the budget before we get jobs
and wages back doesn`t really know their economics. The only way we can
begin to make progress is to get jobs and growth and wages back.


REICH: Number two, you know, a lot of people, long-term unemployed,
we`re going to have to employ them directly at WPA, a Civilian Conservation

Number three, if big corporations are basically sending jobs abroad,
there ought to be severance payments to the people they`re laying off.
That are proportional to the social costs that those companies are
creating, in terms of unemployment insurance, all the benefits these people
need, all of the hardship that it`s caused on these communities, housing
prices that are declining in value because the people don`t have jobs and
you have major closures that affect an entire community.

Severance payments, every profitable company, Whirlpool, if it`s going
to lay off 5,000 people, it`s got to give people a lot of money back.

SCHULTZ: And also, Scott, can American-made compete with a Chinese
product when it comes to the ticket price? I mean, people -- consumers out
there, they want low prices. They`re not getting the better products. I
mean, the jobs that we`re seeing outsourced have made some phenomenal

But we just can`t compete, can we?

PAUL: Ed, absolutely, we can compete it we`re given a fair chance. I
mean, all these Republican candidates cited taxes, regulation and health
care. If that were the case, Germany wouldn`t make a thing. They have
national health care. They have relatively high taxes. Manufacturing
workers make $48 an hour in Germany compared to $32 in the United States.

The difference is there is a culture that cares about manufacturing.
These Republican candidates are in the pockets of Wall Street right now.
There`s a lot of short-termism. There`s a lot of this attitude about we
need to outsource just to make profits. They`re not patient.

And that`s part of the challenge with dealing with Wall Street
policies today in these Republicans. We need information investment, we
need targeted tax relief for job creators in the United States and we need
good skills and training for a new generation of manufacturing workers, and
we need to make sure we keep that in the United States and have a level
playing field for our workers especially with China, where we have a
skyrocketing trade deficit.

I didn`t hear any discussion of that today.

SCHULTZ: Robert Reich, Scott Paul, great to have you gentlemen with
us tonight. Thanks so much.

This is the issue in America, creating jobs. And if you think you can
lose the manufacturing sector, it`s almost 6 million jobs over a decade
with no plan to bring them back, where do you think the new normal is going
to be?

Remember to answer tonight`s question on the bottom of the screen and
share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. I want to know what you think.

Republicans want to start chipping away at Social Security and
Democrats, well, they are ready sitting there -- ready to give them a hand.
Senator Bernie Sanders will tell us why this is a major mistake.

The accusations against Herman Cain may soon go into new territory
because one of the accusers now says she wants to tell her side of the
story. Her attorney says she should be released from her confidentiality
agreement. It`s getting interesting.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Chalk this one up as a major victory for the people. Bank
of America is dropping plans to charge customers $5 a month for using debit
cards. The ATM surcharges received such loud pushback from consumers
across the country. Other banks backed off plans to set up similar fees.

Bank of America has become one of the biggest targets of the 99
percent movement. As seen here in a YouTube video from Austin, Texas. But
recently, the bank`s CEO Brian Moynihan defended the fees as good business.


BRIAN MOYNIHAN, BANK OF AMERICA CEO: We will talk to our customers,
we will talk to our teammates, which we have and to understand what we`re
doing, to understand we have a right to make a profit.


SCHULTZ: Those teammates turned on you. They have a right to make a
profit and customers have the right to take their business elsewhere. Bank
of America heard the voice of the people and realized the $5 ATM fee was a
big mistake.

It`s a lesson the Democrats should learn. They`re on the verge of
making a much bigger mistake in Congress. I`ll tell you why next.

And later, Rick Perry gives an explanation for his, I guess you could
say, loopy speech in New Hampshire? He may have already done too much
damage to his campaign.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: There is a critical deadline coming up for the congressional
supercommittee. I don`t know about you, I didn`t vote for a
supercommittee, but they got one.

And Social Security with the supercommittee appears to be on the
table. During his speech in Louisville yesterday, House Speaker John
Boehner told the debt committee what he expects them to cut.


here in the days ahead that we can find common ground. Everyone knows that
we can`t solve the debt crisis without making structural changes to our
entitlement programs. You know it. I know it. President Obama knows it.


SCHULTZ: No. The people don`t know that. The idea of common ground
for Republicans is to give us everything we want and you get nothing in

Right wingers, they are determined to get rid of Social Security, go
after the New Deal and destroy it. Democrats appear to be helping them.
According to "Politico" -- cuts to Social Security are on the debt
committee`s agenda.

May I ask why? The Democratic co-chair of the committee, Senator
Patty Murray, was asked pointblank: - is Social Security on the chopping
block? She responded, "Everything is on the table, and we`ve made no

Let me make this very clear to the viewers of this television show.
The government set up Social Security, but you and I are making it work.
Not one of these Democrats was ever sent to Washington to pick on the big
three -- Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security.

Any Democrat onboard with cuts to Social Security, you have a new
political enemy. You`re looking at him. It`s the guy that does the 8:00
on MSNBC. I will not let the Democrats off the hook on this.

Just like we listed the senators who voted against the jobs package,
we`re going to put the Democrats who are turning on the party platform,
turning on what the American people want. We need to draw a line in the
sand and let the Democrats know that you`re going to be vulnerable, too.

This is about people. Not party. This is about what`s right for

And there are no polls out there supporting any cuts to Social
Security, Medicare or Medicaid. And all this Washington speak that these
guys are going out on the road making these speeches saying you know, I
know and President Obama knows -- what about the people?

Did you notice how John Boehner in the sound bite never mentioned,
it`s the American people.

We have to matter. We have to matter. We call the shots.

Joining me now is Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Senator, good to have you with us tonight.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Good to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Do you know who put Social Security on the table? Can you
give me some names?

SANDERS: Well, you know, you got the three people in the Senate. The
three Democrats are Patty Murray, John Kerry and Max Baucus. And what they
are saying -- I mean, it`s hard for me to defend this or explain it.

The problem stems back to August when the Democrats reached, and the
president reached an absurd agreement with the Republicans who were
threatening not to lift the debt ceiling and cause an international
financial crisis.

In my view, what the president should have done there is say, I`m
sorry, we`re not going to enter into an absurd agreement, we`re going to
use the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, we`re going to pay our debts
and if you want to take me to court, you do it. But people on Social
Security and veterans benefits are going to get their payments.

SCHULTZ: It amazes me how they are willing to go against the will of
the people. The polling here is just astounding. Nobody sent any
Democrats to Washington to cut these three. What the heck`s going on in

SANDERS: Well, I think in some cases, there is a real separation from
real America in terms of the perceptions that exist in the Congress. We
sought today, by the way, Ed, something that was really extraordinary. The
American people took on the Bank of America, the largest financial
institution in this country and they beat them.

And they beat them because millions of people said, enough is enough.
You people caused the recession, you`re now making huge profits, we bailed
you out and the reward that we get is you raise our debit fees $5 a month.

And because millions of people stood up and said no, the Bank of
America retreated. We need to expand that grassroots effort in terms of
Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. We need to say loud and clear that
if the Democratic Party means anything, it means that we are going to
protect those vitally important programs which in some cases are life and
death for many people in our country.

SCHULTZ: So, we just did a story on how 6 million manufacturing jobs
have left this country. And so now the Democrats want to turn around and
make it harder on the people that have lost their jobs. It amazes me.

And I have to bring this up. A report from "Roll Call" revealed that
the increased wealth of members of Congress is pretty staggering. Members
had a collective net worth of more than $2 billion in 2010; 219 members
reported having assets worth more than $1 million. That`s almost 10 times
the wealth of an average American.

Now, the average American, I mean, is the blue line, right there.
Those are the people relying on Congress to make the right decisions. I
mean, can the wealthy elite in Congress relate to the financial needs of
most Americans? I mean, we have the elite making decisions, do we not?

SANDERS: Well, the answer is yes, but it is not only that. It has a
lot to do with campaign fund-raising and the fact that to get elected, you
need to raise millions and millions of dollars, and the easiest way to do
that is to go to the wealthy and corporate America. And when you do that,
you begin adopting their world view, not the world view of working class
people back in your district.

SCHULTZ: So what has happened in the last year here, folks, is we
have seen the Democrats cave in on the Bush tax cuts, extend them. And
then turn to their base and say, you know, you got to bite the bullet on
Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

Where is the Democratic Party when they`re thinking like that? I
don`t know how they can go home and face their constituents because that`s
not how they got elected.

Senator, great -- go ahead.

SANDERS: Well, the -- this is the fourth round of negotiations.


SANDERS: The Democrats are 0-3. Let`s hope they get their act
together and win this one for the American people.

SCHULTZ: Senator, good to have you with us. Bernie Sanders of
Vermont here on THE ED SHOW. Thank you so much.

Up next, a firearm instructor from Texas refuses to teach Muslims or
people who voted for President Obama. It`s becoming clear how Rick Perry
got himself elected governor three times in Texas. "Psycho Talk" is next.

And later, we`re in the home bust in the battle to repeal Ohio`s
union-busting Senate Bill Five one week from tonight. The voice of the
people of Ohio will finally be heard on THE ED SHOW on MSNBC. We`ll be
live from Columbus.

Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in Psycho Talk tonight, one of Rick Perry`s constituents
is practicing Texas style gun control. Secret is you only let right wing
Christians get ahold of the weapons. Crockett Keller is his name. He owns
a store in a small town of Mason, Texas.

And he offered a class on handguns. But it`s not open to everyone, as
Crockett makes it clear in his radio ad.


CROCKETT KELLER, TEXAS GUN STORE OWNER: Attention, be a victor, not a
victim. We will be having a beginner`s concealed handgun class this coming
Wednesday. If you are a socialist liberal and/or voted for the current
campaigner in chief, please do not take this class. You have already
proven that you cannot make a knowledgeable and prudent decision as
required under the law.

Also, if you`re a non-Christian Arab or Muslim, I will not teach you
the class. Once again, with no shame, I`m Crockett Keller.


SCHULTZ: Well, Crockett, he can afford to have no shame in Mason,
Texas. Mason is right in the middle of the state and home to just over
2,000 people. Now, according to the Census Bureau, none of them are of
Arab ancestry. Nothing to worry about there, Crockett.

Furthermore, only 546 people in the surrounding county voted for
President Obama in 2008. So Crockett`s not really losing too much
business, is he? However, the Texas Department of Public Safety has opened
an investigation into Keller`s situation. And his discrimination could
result in the loss of his firearms instructor`s license.

But Crockett, well, he`s willing to take that chance.


KELLER: I will give up my license to teach before I will teach them.
If you are a devout Muslim, then you cannot be a true American. Why should
I arm these people to kill me? That`s suicide.


SCHULTZ: And you still want to know how Rick Perry got elected three
times in Texas? Crockett Keller`s anti-liberal, anti-Muslim ranting
amounts to a whole bunch of shameless Psycho Talk.

Herman Cain keeps explaining what he remembers about his accusers.
And now one of those accusers says she wants to tell her side of the story.

Loose and passionate, that`s how one attendee described Rick Perry`s
head scratching speech in New Hampshire.

Later, Wayne Slater of "the Dallas Morning News" will join me for


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. One of the two women who
accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment wants to tell her side of the
story. And she wants to be released from her confidentiality agreement.
Her lawyer told the "Washington Post," "it`s just frustrating that Herman
Cain is going around bad mouthing the two complainants. And my client is
blocked by a confidentiality agreement. The National Restaurant
Association ought to release them and allow them to respond."

Of course, Herman Cain, well, he keeps on talking. This morning, he
seemed to remember some other things about the first accuser, or maybe not.


CAIN: There were a couple of other things in there that I found
absolutely ridiculous that --


CAIN: I don`t even remember. They were so ridiculous, I don`t
remember what they are.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You remembered they were ridiculous, but you
don`t remember what those other things were?

CAIN: The reason I forgot them, Robin, is because they were
ridiculous. I dismissed them out of my mind. I said, if she can make that
stick and call that sexual harassment, fine, but it didn`t stick. OK?


SCHULTZ: Are you a parent? Have you got teenage kids? We all go
through it, right? When you give your kid the keys to the car and they
leave the driveway and they turn the corner and they`re gone, you really
don`t know as a parent where they`re going. All you know is what they`re
telling you, right?

I mean, there`s a whole lot of trust involved here. Dad, can I have
the car? You know, when I was parenting those teenagers, I said, you know
what, if you get stopped by the cops, I want to hear about it, OK? That`s
one of our rules.

He`s acting like a 16-year-old. We get different answers. If you`re
a parent and your kid gets in trouble and you first get the answer and then
24 hours later, it`s a hell of a lot different, all of a sudden that trust
is gone.

Do you want this guy, who can`t get his story straight, to be the
Republican nominee? Well, yeah, I actually do, because I think Obama would
really beat him. But that`s another story.

Let`s bring in Democratic strategist and former candidate for the
United States Congress Krystal Ball and "Ring of Fire" radio host Mike
Papantonio. Great to have both of you with us tonight.

Now, the woman`s attorney says that she`s staying with relatives
because the media is staking out her house in Maryland. Now, isn`t, Mike,
just a matter of time before these women come out and talk? How do you see

MIKE PAPANTONIO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yeah, and even if they don`t
come out and talk, Ed, there are going to be plenty of witnesses that have
observed this. They`ve seen this conduct going for a long time. Let me
just tell you something. Sometimes it`s worth breaching a contract.

Look, this contract may be worth as little as 10,000 dollars. So Mr.
Bennett, who represents her, he might want to consider that. The truth is
there may be all kinds of ways out of the contract, because he`s out there
running his mouth, attacking his victims, just like he attacked them when
he harassed them.

This is a bully. The only way to deal with a bully is to bully back.
That`s what I`d recommend these women do.

SCHULTZ: Krystal, the lawyer for one of the accusers says Herman Cain
has waived the confidentiality agreement, for all practical purposes. So
doesn`t it increase the chances that this is all going to get out

KRYSTAL BALL, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I really hope so. Mike is
absolutely right. I mean, Herman Cain is out there accusing these women of
either having completely frivolous allegations or just flat-out lying.
They need to tell their stories.

The thing that I`m really afraid of, though, is I know that as soon as
their names are public, everything -- their whole personal lives,
everything they`ve ever done or said is going to be scrutinized. They`re
going to be dragged through the mud.

You can already see this happening from the way that the right has
responded. They`ve already gone to blaming the women, saying they`re too
uptight, they`re too politically correct.

SCHULTZ: Krystal, why is Herman still talking about this? Isn`t it a
one-day story? He said what he said. Although it`s all over the board.
Isn`t it time for him to move on and start declining interviews?

BALL: Well, I think he went to the Anthony Weiner school of crisis
communications is what I think. He knew the story was coming out ten days
in advance at least. He had to have known this was out there even before
that. So they should have gotten their story straight from the start, come
clean, answered every question.

And you know what, Ed, I don`t think we have the whole story. Not
even close to it now. So this thing is just going to continue.

SCHULTZ: I`m sure the Republicans will like to hear that. I asked
"Politico`s" Ken Vogel this question last night. Here it is.


SCHULTZ: Can you emphatically state tonight that no other campaign
was involved in helping with this story?

KEN VOGEL, "POLITICO": I cannot. We`re not going to get into our
sourcing of it.


SCHULTZ: What does that tell you, Mike Papantonio?

PAPANTONIO: It tells me that you`ve got to bet that this is being
leaked at every possible source. Here`s the crazy thing about it, Ed.
Most of the time, you would think that this matters. With the Tea Party,
they don`t really care.

This is a party that`s a one-issue party. They care about taxes for
the -- you know, not raising taxes on the wealthy and not having big
government. They could have Satan himself involved with this as long as
Satan himself would deliver on those two issues.

So you got to ask yourself, does this really matter to the Tea Party?
And that`s who he`s playing to. He`s all about the Tea Party. So I have
to question whether it makes a difference in the long run.

SCHULTZ: Rick Santorum`s strategist went after Herman Cain`s campaign
manager at the "National Journal" event today. Here it is.


JOHN BRABENDER, SANTORUM CAMPAIGN: The problem was, the answers
changed during the day. So if you want to be the front-runner, then I
would encourage you to help all Republicans make sure we beat Barack Obama
by making sure that your campaign and your candidate is forthcoming.


SCHULTZ: Krystal, how can this not be a problem for Herman Cain?
He`s shifted in the wind.

BALL: Well, I think it is a problem for him ultimately. And here`s
the thing. He`s asking voters to trust him because he has no prior
experience, no record to run on. So he is running on his character. So
for him to go out and make one statement in the morning and something a
little bit different in the afternoon, something a little bit even more
different at night -- and this is not the first time this has happened,

Remember him having to walk back statements on abortion, on
electrocuting illegal immigrants, on negotiating with terrorists. This has
been a pattern from him of having to walk back stories and not getting it
straight from the beginning.

SCHULTZ: I think he`d be a great Republican senator. Beyond that, I
don`t know. Krystal Ball, Mike Papantonio, always a pleasure. Good to
have you with us.

The fight for workers rights in Ohio is pitting public employees like
teachers, firefighters and police officers up against right wing corporate
cash. One week from tonight, we`ll see who comes out top. We`ll show you
Governor Kasich`s closing argument coming up. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: In my Playbook tonight, just one week to go before Ohioans
finally get to beat on Governor John Kasich`s union busting Senate Bill
Five, now Issue Two on the ballot. The money is pouring in.

The anti-Issue Two Group We Are Ohio reported raising 19 million
dollars since July. Meanwhile, the pro Issue Two organization, Building A
Better Ohio, disclosed 7.6 million raised. But those numbers don`t take
into account independent corporate spending, which heavily favors the
Kasich camp.

Liz Cheney`s Alliance for America`s Future. The Koch Brothers`
Americans for Prosperity and Dick Armey`s Freedom Works and the Ohio
Chamber of Commerce are among the big money donors supporting Senate Bill
Five. Both sides are putting their money to work in the homestretch.

Governor Kasich is trying to close the deal with this new commercial.


GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: To give taxpayers a helping hand, we`ve
asked government employees to cover a reasonable cost of their benefits.
By joining together, we will get people back to work. After all, we want
our kids to chase their dreams right here in Ohio.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vote yes on Issue Two.


SCHULTZ: Meanwhile, retired Ohio Supreme Court Judge Andy Douglas,
who is a Republican, has condemned Senate Bill 5.


of Ohio`s collective bargaining law in 1984, Ohio, for four years, led the
nation in safety forces work stoppages. That is why we passed the
collective bargaining law.

The law has worked. It would be tragic for our communities to return
to those dark days. That is what Senate Bill 5, if it becomes law, would
do. To fully protect our citizens and our police officers and
firefighters, Senate Bill 5 must be rejected.


SCHULTZ: One week from today, we`ll find out where the people of Ohio
stand. And THE ED SHOW will be in Columbus, Ohio, as the results come in.
Next Monday and Tuesday night, we`ll broadcast live from outside the
Columbus Firefighters Union Hall at Broad and Starling Streets.

You can find more details on our blog at We hope to see
you there.

Folks are still scratching their heads over the speech Rick Perry gave
in New Hampshire. Now the Texas governor is defending his behavior. Wayne
Slater of "The Dallas Morning News" breaks it down. Stay with us.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it`s Rick Perry like we`ve never seen him

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s Governor Rick Perry like we`ve never seen

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Texas governor seemed both giddy and fidgety
before the crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terry, the campaign says Perry was just passionate
about the issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That guy`s been drinking.


SCHULTZ: Well, the fallout continues over a speech Rick Perry gave to
a right wing anti-gay group in New Hampshire. Perry`s remarks have gone
viral, scoring well over a half million hits on Youtube. Dude, what were
you doing? And judging by his own reactions, the Texas governor seemed
absolutely delighted to be there.


GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: This is such a cool state. I mean, come
on, live free or die? I mean, you know, you got to love that, right? I
come from a state, you know, where they have this little place called the
Alamo, and they declared victory or death. We`re kind of in to those
slogans, man.

It`s like live free or die, victory or death. Bring it.

Gold is good. If you`ve got any in the backyard, because, you know,
if they print anymore money over there in Washington, the gold`s going to
be good. Our -- that -- you know, pretty easy math. Subtract it, send it
in. It`s awesome. Why not?

Nothing I will -- I look forward to the day when I can salute to the
south, to Mr. Chavez and say, no, thank you, we do not need any of your
oil. We are doing it ourselves in America with domestic energy.

Or maybe I won`t salute him. The good news is that little plan that I
just shared with you doesn`t force the Granite State to expand your tax
footprint. If you know what I mean, like nine percent expansion.

I love Herman. Is he the best? I mean, I have fun with him.

And then the coolest thing happens. I mean, I mean, like, today has
been awesome, girl.


SCHULTZ: You know, I think the guy`s a little visionary. Seriously,
he might have been practicing for the White House Correspondence Dinner.
Who knows? Tough act to follow, huh? Tonight the host of the event, Kevin
Smith, is speaking out.

He told the "Hill" newspaper, Perry was just, quote, "being loose and
passionate." Smith also insists Perry drank only water before and during
the event. Today in Iowa, the governor defended his speech.


PERRY: It was a great crowd. Good response. And, you know, I guess
you can do anything you want with a video and make it any way you want, but
I felt good, felt great. I think the message got across very well, so it
was a good speech.


SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in Wayne Slater, senior political writer for
"The Dallas Morning News" and co-author of the book "Bush`s Brain." Mr.
Slater, good to have you with us.

You know, it was strange to us. Was it strange to the folks in Texas?
What about that?

WAYNE SLATER, "DALLAS MORNING NEWS": It was probably strange to some
folks in Texas. I actually have seen Governor Perry act like this on
occasion, rarely, sort of like after hours at the frat house, in his office
at the Capitol and in small groups where he feels comfortable.

But I and you and I think a lot of people in Texas watching that full
thing go on for 25 minutes had to ask questions, what was the boy on?
Although I have to say -- and I`m serious about this -- the prospect of
having the president of the United States greet Vladimir Putin and say,
awesome, dude, would be something I would pay to see.

SCHULTZ: So this is not out of character. I mean, we may see more
speeches like that. Is that what I`m hearing tonight?

SLATER: I think he really has a problem, certainly in a presidential
race, calibrating himself. Somebody says, look, you look too stiff. Look
presidential. So he tries to look presidential. He looks stiff. Somebody
says, no, look, you need to look like you`re enjoying yourself and being
pleasant and being attractive. Then he becomes giddy.

I think that`s a real problem of self-calibration. It`s very possible
he`ll do this again in one way or another. Now, I`ve asked -- to be
serious, I`ve asked the campaign -- he had back surgery four months ago and
was using prescription painkillers, as anyone would be after the surgery.

The campaign won`t directly respond whether or not he may have been on
a painkiller the other night. It certainly looked like it to me. But they
do say he was passionate. And they have said in the past that he`s no
longer using the painkillers, or at least he wasn`t at some point.

So I have to take them at their word. It was Perry being Perry, sort
of like that moment in the Oscars with Sally Field, when she said, you like
me, you really like me.

SCHULTZ: Pretty interesting. Last night, "Politico" reporter Ken
Vogel would neither confirm or deny whether the campaign gave -- any of the
other campaigns gave "Politico" any information about the sexual harassment
allegations against Herman Cain. Do you believe the Perry campaign had
anything to do with this?

SLATER: First, I don`t know. But, Ed, as you know, what you do is
you see who stands to benefit from this. It`s not really the Romney camp.
They were happy with having Cain along with him, keeping Perry away.
They`re more afraid of Perry than they are of Cain, ultimately, in terms of
winning the nomination.

It wasn`t Bachmann or anyone else. The Perry camp would be the one
camp that would benefit directly. There is one other person who could
benefit, Ed. And it wouldn`t be one of the direct presidential campaigns.
But someone who has been particularly critical of Cain and others and
supportive of Mitt Romney the establishment, that would be Karl Christian

SCHULTZ: Interesting take. Mr. Slater, good to have you with us
tonight. That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. Rachel Maddow starts right
now. Rachel, thank you for buying lunch today.


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