IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

The Ed Show for Thursday, November 17th, 2011

Read the transcript to the Thursday show

Guests: Jonathan Smucker, Laura Flanders, John Nichols, Tom Woodruff,
Robert Greenwald, Sean Reardon, Mike Tate

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW, tonight from New York.

Americans are in the streets and on the move. Conservatives have
declared this movement dead. They are dead wrong.

The leader of the fastest-growing labor union in America has been
arrested at the Brooklyn Bridge. THE ED SHOW was there. And this is the
only place you will see the video of the arrest.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.



SCHULTZ (voice-over): The 99 percent movement is leaving the tents
and hitting the streets. Tonight, reaction from the protesters around the

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to send a message to the 1 percent that
the 99 percent aren`t going to take it anymore.

SCHULTZ: John Nichols and Laura Flanders will have reports from Lower

Big labor is marching. We`ll talk to Service Employees International
Union President Mary Kay Henry.

And the right wing wants the 99 percent movement dead.

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: The Occupy Wall Street movement is dead,
finished as a legitimate political force in this country. And that`s a
good thing.

SCHULTZ: I`ll ask Robert Greenwald of Brave New Films is O`Reilly is

In "Psycho Talk," Nancy Pelosi delivers a knockout punch to one of the
Republican candidates.

And new polling in Wisconsin has Scott Walker scrambling to FOX News
for help.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: I don`t think they`re going to be successful,
Governor. I think it took a great act of political courage to stand for
what`s right.

SCHULTZ: Well bring you the latest on the effort to recall Walker.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for

The 99 percent movement -- well, it`s no longer in the tent mode.
Protests reach a new level of intensity and awareness today during a
coordinated national day of action with events in all 50 states. At this
hour, thousands of protesters are marching in Lower Manhattan, making their
way down Broadway, all the way to the Brooklyn Bridge.

It follows a day of civil disobedience on Wall Street, with protesters
blocking the New York Stock Exchange early this morning. Nearly 200 people
were arrested. One of those arrests was Mary Kay Henry, international
president of the Service Employees International Union. We`ll bring you
the exclusive footage of her arrest shortly.

Although most of the arrests were peaceful, there are documented
incidents of force, including this protester who was wounded in an
altercation with police. That had to hurt.

New York has been the center of the protests since the Occupy movement
began two months ago.

But the scene was similar in major cities all over the country today.

In Chicago, occupiers staged a mass action on the streets. In L.A.,
nearly 100 police in riot gear arrested protesters in the downtown area.
Portland, Oregon, saw an occupation of several banks along with more
arrests. In Washington, D.C., protesters marched on the key bridge,
stopping traffic along the way. Protesters took to the Strip in Las Vegas.
One of the cities hit the hardest of the housing market and the crisis.

All across the country, the voices of the 99 percent were being heard.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re frustrated. We`re angry. And they can`t
just go about business as usual because for too long business as usual has
cost people their homes, cost people their jobs, and so we`re here to say
we`ve had enough.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The government bailed out the banks to the tune
of $7 trillion and they foreclosed on our house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to send a message to the 1 percent that
the 99 percent aren`t going to take it anymore.

REPORTER: Is it worth it?



SCHULTZ: They`re not going to take it anymore.

Don`t you think that this movement is entering a new phase? The tent
city portion of the protest -- well, it`s over. Now, I guess you could say
the action starts.

And we shouldn`t be surprised. You know, we`ve been through this
before as a country. All of this happened back in the `60s -- cops using
night sticks, blood on the face of protesters, people being dragged and

Now, it`s an America that we haven`t seen for a while. But it`s
happened in this country before. Just keep in mind, my friends, Bill
O`Reilly might think that this movement is over, and it`s a good thing.

Back in the `60s, the people won. And I think the people are going to
win again. Occupy Wall Street is here to stay in America.

And when the protesters -- you know what happens? When they disband
and they go home tonight, they`re going to go home to the same conditions
and the same frustrations and things aren`t going to change. Maybe they
haven`t done enough. Not yet anyway.

The needs of too many people are not being met. And all the proof you
need is the graph that we show quite often. This is the biggest motivator,
the income divide that`s taking place in this country.

There you see the wages over the last 30 years of middle-class
Americans, right there. And it`s dwindling, I might add.

And here come the top 1 and 2 percenters. They`ve gone up in income
over 300 percent over the last 30 years.

If they disband and they go home tonight, does this graph change?
Hell, no, it doesn`t.

This is why the protesters will return and numbers will grow.

Look, the people in Iowa and Wisconsin and Ohio have told me within
the last 30 days, you know, these hard-working middle-class average
Americans out in the middle of the country, they`ve told me face to face
that they stand with these protesters. There`s just too many average folks
across the country that understand this divide and they sympathize with the
protesters and the movement.

Now, Washington politicians, you know, they can dress nice and look
smart and say the right things in front of the camera and say they`re
working hard for their constituents. But you know what? If they think
that they can ride out this storm, they`re not going to be able to do it.

There will be an election day and there will be change. These people
are going to be involved. No question about it.

The officials who ignore or belittle this movement, they will regret
it. Like Republican Congressman Peter King.


REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: First of all, you try to listen to
them and they make almost no sense. These are people who are living in
dirt. These were people who were involved with drugs. There were
violence. There was rape.

You`re talking about a small number of people. You probably get more
people in a mass in St. Patrick`s Cathedral on Sunday than you have in
Zuccotti Park.


SCHULTZ: Really? King says he can`t understand what these people are
saying. Then he`s derogatory towards them.

Here`s a start, Congressman. These are just some of the issues that
Occupy organizers really care about. And right now they`re calling it
phase 2 of the movement.

It`s time to tax the rich. Have we not talked about that in recent
weeks, recent months? It`s time for the wealthy in this country to pay
their fair share.

It`s time to end the wars the way politicians told us they were going
to do. It`s time to restore Glass-Steagall and bring some sanity and
fairness back to Wall Street. It`s time to repeal Citizens United. It`s
time to get money out of politics.

Can we have elections federally funded? That`s what these folks want.
It`s time to invest in infrastructure and education which, Mr. King, your
party has consistently voted down every effort to do.

It`s time to stop busting labor unions, whether they`re private,
public, five employees, or 5,000. It`s time to stand and defend Medicare
and Medicaid and Social Security because they`re not out in the streets
marching for that kind of change. It`s time to stop the spending cuts and
start investing in America.

The list goes on and on. And if any of this stuff sounds familiar,
you know what it is? Have you ever heard of it before -- all the things
we`ve mentioned here?

Hell, this is nothing but the Democratic platform that the party
adopted in 2008 at the national convention. That`s all it is. You go
right down the list.

Now, Citizens United obviously happened after the 2008 convention.
But you look at what they are talking about, what they`re protesting about,
we`ve been there with the party. It`s called the Democratic Party.

And so, it`s par for the course for Republicans like Peter King to
call them losers and druggies and filthy and they don`t know what they
want. Hell, we`ve heard all that before.

The fact of the matter is this movement is not over, and this movement
isn`t going to subside anytime soon and when these folks go home at night,
when they disband, they may not be able to tent out anymore where they want
to, but believe me, these protests are only going to grow in number and
they`re going to be a hell of a lot more often.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: is the 99 percent movement getting stronger or
getting weaker? Text "A" for stronger, text "B" for weaker to 622639. You
can always go to our blog at We`ll bring you the results
later on in the show.

Now, you heard a very strong definition and description from a
congressional member. Joining me now live from Zuccotti Park in Lower
Manhattan is a gentleman who traveled to be a part of this today, Jonathan
Smucker. He is a small business owner from Rhode Island who has been
participating in the Occupy Wall Street protests.

Mr. Smucker, good to have you on THE ED SHOW tonight.


SCHULTZ: What did you see today, sir? What did you see?

SMUCKER: We saw a lot. I got up very early this morning. I was out
here at the stock exchange. People came and assembled peaceably, and they
actually blockaded every entry point to the New York Stock Exchange.

It was a very, very energetic morning, energy throughout the day.
Thousands of students gathering at Union Square, marching down to Foley
Square, where the police have just estimated that we had at least over
30,000 people.


SMUCKER: So this is -- you know what I saw today? I saw the most
diverse-looking social movement I think I`ve seen in my lifetime at Foley
Square. It was incredible.

And we`re talking age, different ages, different race, people of all
walks of life. Really a movement that`s not just speaking on behalf of the
99 percent but is really reflecting what the 99 percent looks like. And
people saying, hey, you know, we need a system that serves all of us, not
just that serves the very wealthy and very powerful.

And I think you`re right, this movement`s not going away. This
movement is gaining. You know, people are having a hard time.

One thing I saw, real quick, I ran into a banker today that was
holding a sign that said "Get a job." And I couldn`t resist challenging
him on that. I was so offended that in an economy where 10 percent of
Americans are looking for work, this guy, who is an executive, is telling
people to get a job.

You know, how insulting can you get to everybody in this country who`s
struggling right now?

SCHULTZ: Mr. Smucker, Bill O`Reilly says this movement`s over, it`s
dead, and it`s a good thing. What`s your response to that?

SMUCKER: You know, Bill O`Reilly is responding to us. So I think
it`s pretty clear that -- the movement`s -- I think really this is just the
birth of the movement.

This started two months ago. It`s reframed the whole national debate
about consolidation of wealth and power in our society.

And, you know, I paid attention to this from Rhode Island. The first
two weeks, I didn`t think it was going to go anywhere. I was skeptical. I
was with the goals.

But then suddenly it was like you know what? This is really happening
and I`ve got to do my part. I`ve got to get down there. I`ve got to help
out. You know?

SCHULTZ: Well, not only has Bill O`Reilly said it`s dead and it`s
over, Peter King says you`re a loser, you`re on drugs, and you don`t know
what you want.

SMUCKER: Well, I would say we haven`t won yet. We have major, major
changes ahead of us. And it`s going to take a grassroots force.

It`s going to take -- you know, this movement isn`t about just this
park here. This movement is about millions of Americans. And we have to
find ways to get people really, really active because it`s going to take a
huge grassroots force to challenge the power of the big corporations, the
big banks, Wall Street that have accumulated political power for the past
few decades.

And they`ve done it under both -- over both Republican -- under both
Republican and Democratic administrations. You know, the influence of Wall
Street money is a bipartisan issue. And we -- this movement is outside of
that, acting as a force.


SMUCKER: And hopefully, we will get some change.

SCHULTZ: Jonathan Smucker, appreciate your time tonight here on THE
ED SHOW. Thanks for being an American.

Now, let`s turn to Laura Flanders, host of "Free Speech TV," and
author of the book "At The Tea Party." And John Nichols, Washington
correspondent for "The Nation" magazine who was at Zuccotti Park tonight.

Laura, what have you seen today? You were down there. Put this in
historical perspective of what we`re seeing.

LAURA FLANDERS, FREE SPEECH TV: It was an extraordinary day. I mean,
the "Daily News" in New York started off by asking -- you know, occupy,
it`s do or die. This is a movement more alive than ever.

And if you want to have the comparison, let`s talk about it. I mean,
you talked about it at the top of the show. For 30 years, inequality has
been growing and the wealth and the voice and the attention have gone to
those at the very top. This movement has turned that around.

So, of course, you`re going to have people in some parts of the media
saying that these are just marginal folks. That`s the trick. You
marginalize people, ignore them when they speak quietly, and then say, ooh,
they`re marginal when they shout. This has made a major difference. And
this difference is continuing today.

That diversity at Foley Square this evening was amazing. It would
have warmed your heart.

SCHULTZ: John, what`s going on at Zuccotti Park at this hour?

JOHN NICHOLS, THE NATION: There`s not much going on at Zuccotti Park
at this hour, ed. And I think that`s very symbolic. Zuccotti Park was
where this movement started.

But really it has spread throughout this whole part of Manhattan and
really throughout the whole country.

As we speak, Ed, there are still tens of thousands of people up at
Foley Square, many of them waiting hours just to cross Brooklyn Bridge in a
symbolic protest, saying this bridge where initially weeks ago so many
people were arrested, today we will walk peacefully across it.

They are chanting "occupy Wall Street all day, all week," and they are
making the bridge a symbol of that for a number of reasons.

Mary Kay Henry told me that it was very, very important that this
protest go out of the parks and to the bridges, to the streets, show where
we need infrastructure investment in America. And I got a call when I was
with Mary Kay Henry today from a friend of mine who was in Milwaukee,
Wisconsin, where he said that there were 400 people on a bridge there. In
a way this movement has stepped out of the parks and onto the bridges and
to say you know, we`re going to show Congress where it needs to start
investing money.

SCHULTZ: Laura Flanders, John Nichols, thanks for your time tonight.
A very eventful day in America. I appreciate you being here with us.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We always want to know
what you think.

Coming up, the president of one of the nation`s largest labor unions
joins the Occupy Wall Street protesters and gets arrested. But FOX News
says the movement is dead. They are wrong.

And later, it ain`t looking good for Governor Scott Walker in
Wisconsin. It`s so bad he`s asking Sean Hannity for some help. So you
don`t want to miss it. Stay tuned.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, the head of the Service Employees International
Union was arrested today at Occupy Wall Street protests. We`ll look at
labor`s support for the 99 percent movement as protesters swarmed Wall
Street. The FOX Newsers said the movement was dead. Filmmaker Robert
Greenwald on FOX`s occupy lies.

A Stanford University study shows the middle class is disappearing.
Maybe that`s why the folks are in the street. And the income gap is
growing. One of the study`s authors is here with the details.

And Rick Perry wants to debate Nancy Pelosi. Now, I`d pay to see
that. Her response puts him in "Psycho Talk."

Stay with us. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

One of the biggest labor unions in the country, the Service Employees
International Union, supports the Occupy Wall Street movement. The
president of the SEIU, Mary Kay Henry, was there with the protesters today
and was arrested at the Brooklyn Bridge.

In this exclusive video, an ED SHOW producer was there to record Mary
Kay`s arrest. Before her arrest, she explained her act of civil


NICHOLS: Mary Kay, you just crossed the line to be arrested.

whatever it takes to get people back to work in this country because enough
is enough.

NICHOLS: There is a long history of people saying, you know, I`ve got
to get arrested because people need to pay attention to how serious this

HENRY: Right.

NICHOLS: Is that really what this is about, is the act of being
arrested is really a way of saying, look, people have got to start paying
attention to this?

HENRY: Yes. That enough is enough for working people in this
country. There`s plenty of money. There`s plenty of work that needs
doing. There`s plenty of people that want to do it. We want to put those
three things together and get our country going again.

And we`re going to take arrests. We`re going to be on bridges. We`re
going to stay in the streets until we get this country going again.


SCHULTZ: Let`s go back to John Nichols, Washington correspondent of
"The Nation," who was there and did that interview.

John, she says they`re just going to keep on going. It doesn`t sound
like this movement`s subsiding at all.

But what does this mean, that the head of a union would cross the line
to get arrested? Does this put us into new territory?

NICHOLS: I think it really does. And she was not arrested just on
her own. She was arrested with members of the New York City Council, with
community leaders, with religious leaders.

And one of the things that Mary Kay Henry and some of the other folks
who were arrested said to me was they thought it was important that they do
this so that people across the country knew that it wasn`t just union
leaders saying, oh, yes, go out and protest, go out and take the risks,
that the leaders themselves would take the risks as well. It builds the
courage of the movement. It suggests that this is not just a movement of
some -- you know, some folks being told to go in but everybody`s going in

And I think the symbolism was very, very important.

SCHULTZ: Well, how often is this going to happen in your opinion?
And do you think it will motivate other labor folks now that they`ve seen a
president get arrested to do the same thing?

NICHOLS: Well, back in the anti-apartheid movement in the 1980s, you
started seeing some people step up, and it became a thing of honor to be
arrested in an act of civil disobedience. I think we might well see some
more of that.

And I also think that it`s not just about arrests. It is that when
you see labor leaders in the front lines, when you see members of the city
council, religious leaders in the front lines, that tells people this is a
protest that everyone can come out and be a part of. It invites whole
families into it. And I think it can`t do anything but build this

SCHULTZ: John Nichols, thanks for joining us again on the program.
Now, let`s turn the executive vice president of the Service Employees
International Union, Tom Woodruff.

Mr. Woodruff, good to have you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: Where does this arrest take your union? What does it mean?

WOODRUFF: Well, first of all, I`m here in place of Mary Kay because
she got arrested. Let`s start with the fact that we live in the richest
country in the history of the world, and what`s going on here is outrageous
and intolerable. Thirty million people without jobs, without full-time
jobs that want them. Over 1 in 5 children will go to bed hungry in America

And it`s all about the question of fairness, which the Occupy movement
has wakened us all up to. It is about do we want to have a country that
produces a few more millionaires and at the same time destroys middle-class
jobs? Or do we want to have a country where people pay fair tax, where we
put people back to work? That`s what we need to do in this country.

SCHULTZ: What resources is your union prepared to devote to the 99
percent movement?

WOODRUFF: Every resource we have. Every one of our members that`s
struggling to try to win a decent life --

SCHULTZ: Does this mean you`re going to be out there monthly?
Weekly? How often is this going to happen?

WOODRUFF: Daily. We were all over the country today, over 300
cities. We will be there day in and day out.

This is not -- this is an attack on the middle class in this country
that`s been going on for 40 years. I certainly hope it doesn`t take 40
years to turn it around.

But we`re going to be there every day to do just that.

SCHULTZ: You know, your president, Mary Kay Henry, who was just
arrested, has said that supporting the movement and endorsing the president
of the United States are complementary but they`re separate. Explain that.

You`re the first union to come out in this election season. We`re a
year away, and you`re already supporting President Obama. And you`re out
getting arrested. And you say it`s going to happen again. You`re going to
be more involved in it with more resources.

How is it separate?

WOODRUFF: Look, it`s President Obama that put a jobs program out to
put people back to work in this country. It`s President Obama that is
better than any of the candidates.

But the election next year, while it`s extremely important, is not the
goal. The goal is to win for working people and middle-class Americans.

I saw earlier on your network a stat that`s just amazing -- 65 percent
of people used to live in middle-class neighborhoods, 44 percent do now.
They are destroying the middle class one job at a time. Corporate power
and the rich in this country and the politicians they control.

That`s what we all have to do. The Occupy movement, the labor
movement, we need to take this country back.

And, Ed, the worst thing is it`s what`s happening to our children and
grandchildren. Every generation in America has lived a better life. And
now, we`re about to turn over to the next generations a worse country.
That`s wrong.

They`re stealing the future of my children, my grandchildren. I`m
angry about that. I think you`re angry about that. I know our members are
angry about that. That`s what this fight is about, the future of this

SCHULTZ: Tom Woodruff, Bill O`Reilly says the movement`s dead. Your

WOODRUFF: I think it`s just starting, Ed. This day is just the
beginning. I don`t know -- you know, this movement will last far longer
than Bill O`Reilly.

SCHULTZ: Tom Woodruff, good to have you with us tonight. Keep up the

WOODRUFF: Thanks so much, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Debating isn`t really Rick Perry`s strong suit. But he
didn`t let it stop him from challenging the former speaker of the House to
a debate. Perry`s "Psycho Talk" and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi`s
outstanding response is coming up.

And America is segregating itself by income. Rich and poor
neighborhoods are both increasing, which means the middle class is
disappearing. We`ll go down that road again tonight. We can`t do it

We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: And in Psycho Talk tonight, Rick Perry`s debate disasters
have sent him into the single digits in the polls everywhere. But he wants
to try again, this time with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. He sent
the former Speaker of the House a letter saying "I am in Washington Monday
and would love to engage you in a public debate about my Overhaul
Washington plan versus the congressional status quo."

The low-hanging fruit of the Republican party when it comes to brains
wants to debate Nancy Pelosi? OK. I think Perry needs to review some of
the game tape from his past debates.


group of scientists that have stood up and said, here is the fact, Galileo
got outvoted for a spell.

It was for the Second Amendment -- was it before -- he was before the
social programs from the standpoint of -- he was for standing up for Roe
versus Wade before he was against verse -- Roe versus Wade.

Commerce, Education, and the -- what`s the third one there?

Commerce, Education, and the -- I can`t. The third one I can`t.
Sorry. Oops.


SCHULTZ: He sure can`t. If Perry can`t hack it in a room with
Michele Bachmann and Newt Gingrich, he certainly wouldn`t be able to handle
a debate against the former Speaker of the House. Even Nancy Pelosi knows
the guy is a joke. Here`s what she said about the debate offer today.


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: He did ask if I could debate
here in Washington on Monday. It is my understanding that such a letter
has come in. Monday I`m going to be in Portland in the morning. I`m going
to be visiting some of our labs in California in the afternoon. That`s
two. I can`t remember what the third thing is that I`ll be doing.


SCHULTZ: I want to commend the former speaker for being able to
recognize Rick Perry`s Texas-sized Psycho Talk.

The righties can`t get the story straight. Bill O`Reilly says the
Occupy Wall Street movement is dead. But others say it`s part of a global
socialist movement. That`s next.

How unpopular is Governor Scott Walker in the state of Wisconsin? So
unpopular he`s reaching out to Slanthead for some help. Mike Tate,
chairman of the Wisconsin Democratic Party, will join me. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. The right wing loves to
disparage the 99 percent movement, probably because they`re afraid it will
seriously challenge a system favoring the wealthy and the right wing`s
propaganda machine. Here`s a sampling from their past 24 hours.


BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: So the Occupy Wall Street movement is
dead. Finished as a legitimate political force in this country. And
that`s a good thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is about anarchism, socialism, communism --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what they`re obviously trying to do is
disrupt the lives of New Yorkers to make their point. One woman yelled at
them saying, are you going to feed my kids when they asked her to join
their demonstration.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I wouldn`t be a bit surprised if
it was not blood on the occupier on MSNBC, but rather ketchup or stage

UNIDENTIFIEED FEMALE: We are dealing with part of now -- part of the
global socialist movement.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: What have we seen here? Violence,
rape, arson, destruction of property, sex in public, masturbation in
public, naked people, drugs, drug paraphernalia, you know, anti-
Americanism, anti-Semitism, anti-capitalism.


SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in filmmaker Robert Greenwald, founder and
president of Brave New Films. Mr. Greenwald, good to have you with us
tonight. You know who these people are. With "Out Foxed" -- you did that,
what, ten years ago. They haven`t changed a bit. They`re not even
consistent, are they? O`Reilly says the movement is dead. The righties
say it`s part of a global socialist movement.

What`s your take on how they`re playing this?

ROBERT GREENWALD, BRAVE NEW FILMS: Well, it`s pretty clear what`s
going on, Ed, which is the right attacks in an organized fashion, if not a
consistent fashion, when there`s a real threat of some kind. I can tell
you personally, I know that I`ve done well when my Twitter account or my
Facebook is lit up with all kinds of attacks from the right wing. It means
you are striking a chord.

And obviously, the Occupy folks, the 99 Percenters have made a
profound difference in the way the entire country is looking at economic
inequities. The entire country is now having a discussion and a debate
about fairness, about the way capitalism works, and about what`s going
wrong with the system, which has so many people suffering incredibly.

SCHULTZ: Fox knows all about stoking a movement, the way they did it
with the Tea Party. Do they fear that this movement could just be a hell
of a lot bigger and bring real change that they don`t want?

GREENWALD: Well, that`s exactly it. This is a movement that`s
talking -- and this is very important. It`s talking about profound ways
that the system is not working. That`s exactly what Fox is dedicated to

Fox is the one percent. Rupert Murdoch is. Roger Ailes are. They
want to make sure that that one percent keeps their control. It`s almost
like they guessed our next campaign, Ed, which we`re going to be starting,
which is who are the one percent, allowing people to vote for those one
percent who are using their wealth and using their power to step on the
back of the other 99 percenters.

And you know for sure Murdoch`s going to be on that list.

SCHULTZ: Well, you`re a producer of films that other people don`t do,
and a source of great information to a movement just like this. What could
be produced that would maybe help this movement grow, in your opinion?

GREENWALD: Well, I think the movement`s going to grow incredibly.
What we`re trying to do is, with messaging around the one percent, identify
the people and the corporations that are the cause of the problems.
Because it`s very important if you don`t have a job and you`re losing your
home that you understand this is the way the system`s working. And there
are people who benefit because you don`t have a job or home or health care.

We need to name those people, those war profiteers, who are making 10,
20, 30 million dollars, while you don`t have a job. We need to name people
like Murdoch. We need to name the bankers and the Wall Street folks and
connect the dots for people.

This is a system. This is an organized system. And people are paying
a terrible price. And it`s thrilling to see their courage and their guts
and their honesty in throwing their bodies out there and saying, day after
day, damn it, no more.

SCHULTZ: And Fox News obviously throwing a concerted effort to
disparage the movement, and also to degrade it and label it things that it
simply is not. Is that going to strengthen the movement, in your opinion?

GREENWALD: Well, if we listened to Fox, Ed, I think we`d all be in a
lot of trouble. I think the movement`s going to be strengthened because
it`s talking about basic and profound truths.


GREENWALD: It`s talking about the fact that what people instinctively
understand, one percent. That one percent is stepping on the backs.
They`re taking advantage. And they`re gaming the system. And what these
wonderful folks have done, have called attention to it in a way that
everybody can understand and participate.

SCHULTZ: Robert Greenwald, Brave New Films, always a pleasure. Great
work. Thank you.

GREENWALD: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: A new study shows just how bad the income inequality is in
this country and where it`s all going. The author of the study that will
tell us what it really means for America. He`s with me tonight. Stay with


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Back at the board, I`ve got
some more numbers for you. They don`t lie. Over the last 40 years, this
country has turned into two Americas: the super rich and everybody else.
This chart is the result of a new Stanford University study. It clearly
shows how the middle class is shrinking in this country.

The top line shows the percent of families who live in the middle-
class neighborhoods declining from 65 percent down to 44 percent. And of
course in 2007 -- that was the last number.

Meanwhile, the bottom line shows the percent of people in either poor
or rich areas, it has doubled from 15 percent to 31 percent. Not only has
income inequality increased, but income segregation has gone up as well.

Let`s fast-forward to 1990. The green areas are high-income
neighborhoods. The purple areas are low-income and poor neighborhoods.
And the gray sections, well, that`s the middle class in this country, you
know, those people that have got to have disposable income to move our
economy for everybody.

Here`s what`s happened by 1990. The green, wealthy neighborhoods --
the purple, the poor neighborhoods, they have taken over a significant
portion of middle-class areas. It`s very clear what`s happening.

By 2007, it was even more extreme, particularly when you look at how
the wealthy areas have expanded. It`s to wonder the Occupy folks are out
in the streets, risking getting arrested to fight back against a trend
that`s very clear: a diminishing middle class in this country.

Let`s bring in Sean Reardon. He`s a professor of sociology at
Stanford University who was one of the authors of this study.

Mr. Reardon, good to have you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: What are the consequences of income inequality and
segregation in this country? What are we looking at?

REARDON: So I think there`s a couple consequences we ought to worry
about. One is we increasingly live in a society where higher income and
lower income families don`t have much contact with each other, don`t know
each other. And so that sort of erodes public trust.

I think it also has the potential to lead to kind of very divisive
politics, because if you`re a representative representing a middle-class,
mixed income area, you want to represent the interests of all income
groups. But if you`re representing a wealthy or a poor area, you`re going
to represent the interests only of those groups.

And so the more segregated people are in society, the more our
politics are going to be divisive as a result, I think.

SCHULTZ: The right wing think tank the Heritage Foundation recently
posted a piece on its blog arguing "economic inequality is not necessarily
an injustice, but rather a necessary component of any prosperous society."

What`s your reaction to that statement?

REARDON: Well, there`s probably a level of income inequality that is
valuable for sort of producing healthy competition and giving people a
feeling that they can get ahead and kind of achieve the American dream.
But when income inequality gets so high, I think a lot of scholars and
economists would agree that it actually erodes that possibility.

It`s discouraging to people, and it causes problems in society.

SCHULTZ: What do you think this income segregation -- why is it
happening? And how do we turn it around?

REARDON: So I think it`s happening for a couple reasons. One reason
is obviously growing income inequality, as the middle class gets smaller
and the ranks of the rich and the poor get bigger on either extreme, we see
more separation.

But I think it also has to do with housing zoning policy, the
development of kind of suburban and exurban communities, where there aren`t
mixed income and low income housing available. So there`s a lot of reasons
for it, in addition to income inequality.

SCHULTZ: Would you agree with me -- this is where I stand on it, the
face of public education is seriously going to change in this country if
this trend continues. And there are some numbers to back it up. I want to
mention some of these.

The gap in standardized test scores between poor kids and rich kids is
up 40 percent since 1970. Now, that`s a hell of a swing. And the gap
between the rich and poor kids in college graduation is up more than 50
percent just since the early 1990s.

What could these gaps mean for a society going forward?

REARDON: Let me add one more number to that. Fifty years ago, the
black-white test score gap was twice as big as the gap between rich and
poor children. Now the gap between rich and poor children in test scores
is roughly twice as big as the black-white test score gap. It`s partly
because we`ve made good progress in narrowing the black-white test score
gap over the last 50 years, but partly because of this rapid rise in the
gap between rich and poor kids.

so I think it`s going to make it harder and harder for children to
sort of achieve the American dream. Because if you grow up poor, the
promise of America is always that you could pull yourself up with the help
of your community and achieve. But if the schools aren`t going to help
children do that and if the test scores of the rich are getting higher and
higher, then they`re the ones who are going to be most successful in the
economy. And it`s going to be hard for children from poor backgrounds.

SCHULTZ: Professor Reardon, may I finish this interview asking you,
do you think that the middle class in this country has one or two feet in
the grave?

REARDON: There`s still a middle class. And I think it certainly can
be resurrected.

SCHULTZ: It can be resurrected, in your opinion?


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

REARDON: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: That`s encouraging. We`ve got the latest on the recall
effort in Wisconsin. The numbers don`t look good for Governor Scott
Walker. So where does he run to? Those guys across the street.


SCHULTZ: Survey tonight on THE ED SHOW, I asked you, is the 99
Percent Movement getting stronger or getting weaker? Ninety six percent of
you think O`Reilly`s full of it, that it`s getting stronger; four percent
of you think it`s getting weaker.

The Scott Walker recall effort is going strong. Wisconsin Democratic
Party Chair Mike Tate gives us an update. Where are the signatures?







UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Recall supporters put their message in lights and
by the hundreds chanted.

CROWD: Hey, hey, ho, ho, Scott Walker`s got to go.


SCHULTZ: Things aren`t looking good for Scott Walker in Wisconsin.
The recall effort is well under way. Now with several of Walker`s own
neighborhoods pitching in, allowing folks to sign recall petitions right on
their lawn. That`s the Packer way of doing things.

A spokeswoman for A United Wisconsin tells the Associated Press
they`ve already gathered 50,000 signatures in just 48 hours. And support
for the governor and his union busing efforts is collapsing statewide; 58
percent of Wisconsin voters want to see this guy out of a job.

With numbers like that, no wonder Walker sought to Hannitize the


SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You balanced the 3.6 billion dollar
deficit and you were able to do it without raising taxes on the people of
Wisconsin, and create 40,000 new jobs in just the first six months, right?


SCHULTZ: Hold on, Hannity. You`re glossing over a few facts here.
As the Associated Press reported back in February, Wisconsin`s budget
shortfall had nothing to do with collective bargaining, but rather other
financial obligations. Walker`s tax cuts, in fact, made the state`s
ongoing budget problems worse.

And since Walker signed the union-busting bill into law, the state --
listen up, folks -- has lost jobs, nearly 10,000 last month alone, most of
them from the private sector.


HANNITY: Now, if the unions go forward with this and the special
interests go forward in this, how much is it going to cost the taxpayers?
Do you have an estimate how much it will cost them for this recall effort?

WALKER: Well they`re saying, in some cases, up to 10 million dollars
just in taxpayers` money, not to mention the tens of millions like they
spent earlier this year against state senators.


SCHULTZ: Yet Walker`s own party didn`t seem concerned about taxpayer
money when they attempted to recall three Democratic state senators.
Republicans wasted even more taxpayer dollars playing Otto Yonkerman (ph)
style politics by running fake Democrats in primaries. With three more GOP
state senators facing a potential recall in addition to Governor Walker,
Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald says he`ll do it again.

Let`s turn to Mike Tate, chairman of the Wisconsin Democratic Party.
Mike, good to have you with us tonight. How scared, how nervous is Scott
Walker for his job?

incredibly scared. And he sat in actually the same exact chair I`m sitting
in right now in the studio in Milwaukee last night, talking to Fox News and
just spinning tall tale after tall tale. You know, when your only friend
is Sean Hannity, you don`t have many friends left.

And he is in a lot of political trouble here in Wisconsin.

SCHULTZ: Walker told Hannity that his union-busting bill was merely a
way to fix the budget. Yet back in January, Walker told a guy pretending
to be David Koch that going after unions was just one piece of the puzzle.
Here it is.


WALKER: I talk to Kasich every day. You know, John`s got to stand
firm in Ohio. You start going down the list, a lot of us -- there`s a lot
of us new governors who got elected to do something big.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re the first domino.

WALKER: Yep. This is our moment.


SCHULTZ: Mike, whatever happened to that moment?

TATE: Well, I think that what we`ve seen -- and you referenced just a
little bit in your intro. We`ve seen there are fewer jobs in Wisconsin
today since Walker took office. There has been incredible division in this
state. Over -- close to 60 percent of the people in this most recent poll
want to see Scott Walker gone.

He has -- if he had a moment, he screwed it up pretty big by refusing
to work with everyone in the legislature, and dividing the state, and
really pushing a union-busting agenda that is hurting middle-class

SCHULTZ: "Mother Jones" is reporting Walker called for a special
jobs-focused session of the legislature. Now, first order of business was
abstinence-only education in the schools. What does that have to do with
creating jobs?

TATE: You`d have to get pretty creative to figure out how abstinence-
only education creates a single job. We`ve seen these so-called job
sessions focused purely on social issues, concealed carry, allowing people
to pursue what`s called the Castle Doctrine, where you can basically shoot
someone at your front door if you`re intimidated by them.

Absolutely nothing that creates jobs. And you know, we just had a
report today, there were 10,000 jobs lost in Wisconsin last month. The
majority of them in the private sector. So we`ve got a real jobs crisis in
Wisconsin that Scott Walker`s not addressing. And it`s one of the reasons
we`re having such a success gathering recall petitions.

SCHULTZ: Are you going to get the 540,000 needed to get this done?
You`ve got 57 days left to do it now.

TATE: Fifty seven days. I`m very encouraged. As you mentioned,
United Wisconsin, our grassroots partner in this, announced earlier today
that we`ve collected over 50,000 signatures in just the first 48 hours.
There are people streaming into offices all around the state. And not just
in Milwaukee and Madison, Ed.

We`re talking about, you know, Manaqua and Rhinelander and Kenosha and
Racine and really all points in between. We`re seeing a tremendous
outpouring of enthusiasm.

SCHULTZ: Well, it looks like I`ve got to go back to Wisconsin. I`m
looking forward to see how this unfolds.

Mike Tate, always a pleasure. Good to have you on tonight.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. You can listen to me, my radio
show, on Sirius XM radio channel 127, Monday through Friday, noon to 3:00
p.m. You can follow me on Twitter, @EdShow and @WeGotEd.

"THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. I won`t miss it. Even
though there`s a football game on, I won`t miss the next hour. Rachel,
good evening.


Copyright 2011 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>