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The Ed Show for Thursday, December 8th, 2011

Read the transcript to the Thursday show

Guests: Mike Papantonio, Bernie Sanders

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to "THE ED
SHOW." tonight, from New York.

Republicans are running like rats from a sinking ship. Tonight,
Donald Trump`s debate is on life support. Perry`s out. Bachmann takes a
pass. And by tomorrow, Newt may be the last man standing.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


DONALD TRUMP: I think you`re going to have others coming in and
coming in strongly. And we`ll see what happens. But people are afraid
that I`m going to run as an independent candidate.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Even Rick Perry thinks Trump is a chump. So
does the RNC.

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: I do have concern of a moderator who is
talking of running as an independent.

SCHULTZ: And Mitt Romney sends up the goon squad to do a number on
Newt. Tonight, MSNBC`s Martin Bashir and "Ring of Fire" radio host Mike
Papantonio on the Republican field in chaos.

The Newtster is still pushing the idea that poor kids have no work

neighborhoods where kids are in public housing surrounded by people who
have no experience of working.

SCHULTZ: Michael Eric Dyson on Newt Gingrich and the race card.

It`s the end of democracy in Michigan. And the rights of African-
Americans are getting hit the hardest. We`re going live to Detroit.

Senate Republicans do the bidding of the 1 percent and block a new
consumer watchdog. Senator Bernie Sanders is here.

And President Obama pulls out the trump card on anyone who questions
his record on foreign policy.

whether I engage in appeasement.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for

Even Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann think Donald Trump is a chump.
This morning, Perry became the latest Republican to reject the Trump-
moderated debate planned for December 27th. He told a group of supporters
in South Carolina he`s just too busy.


- I mean, I`ve had my bus tour, and I really -- I talked to Donald the day
before yesterday. I told him, I said I really want to do it --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you want me, pick me up in your helicopter,
take me to the debate.

PERRY: That`s a good idea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bring me back to my bus.

PERRY: I`m not sure Donald will do that for me.


SCHULTZ: Later today, a spokesman for Michele Bachmann announced that
she won`t be attending. "We have confirmed that we are not participating
in the Newsmax/Trump debate."

So much for being the kingmaker, all seven leading Republican
presidential contenders were invited to the Donald debate. Only two are
going to show up. Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum. And who knows?
Santorum may pull out.

Trump started to distance himself from the event this afternoon.


TRUMP: Don`t forget, this is s really a Newsmax debate. It`s not a
Trump debate. We do have Newt, and we do have Santorum, who in all
fairness showed a certain degree of courage.


SCHULTZ: So the question is: will all of these candidates go right
back into the debate if Newsmax gets a new moderator? Five days ago, the
chairman of the Republican Party, Reince Priebus, said the candidates were
free to go to the Trump debate if they wanted to.


PRIEBUS: I think that these are programs that each of these
candidates have to decide for themselves whether they`re going to compete
in. There`s strategy involved, whether competing and not competing. Those
are things that those candidates --


SCHULTZ: And just a day later, Karl Rove flipped out.


KARL ROVE, FORMER BUSH AIDE: What the heck are the Republican
candidates doing showing up at a debate with a guy who says "I may run for
president next year as an independent"? I mean, I think the Republican
national chairman ought to step in and say, we strongly discourage every
candidate from appearing in a debate moderated by somebody who`s going to
run for president.


SCHULTZ: So, when Karl Rove tells the Republican National Committee
chairman what to do, the chairman listens. FOX News put Reince Priebus on
the spot today.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Karl, you ask, we deliver. Republican National
Chairman Reince Priebus.

Reince, welcome back.

PRIEBUS: Happy to be here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you say to Karl Rove?

PRIEBUS: Well, first of all, candidates can do whatever they want to
do. Now, I respect Newsmax, and I respect Mr. Trump. We`ve done events
together with Mr. Trump. I mean, so there`s no issue there.

But I would have a concern, and I do have a concern of a moderator who
is talking about running as an independent still being moderator of a
debate. So I --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That bothers you?

PRIEBUS: Right. I would have an issue with that. And I would
understand why candidates would say, hey, look, I don`t know if I want to
avail myself to a forum where the moderator might be, although albeit very
slight -- and again, we appreciate what Mr. Trump has done. But if you`re
still talking about potentially running as an independent candidate, then I
think that`s a problem.

I mean, I think that would be malpractice for me as an RNC chairman
not to believe that that is an issue.


SCHULTZ: All right. Let`s cut to the chase. Republicans know the
Donald debate is clownsville. They also know the Republican front-runner
is a dangerous general election candidate.

But his momentum is not stalling. In the latest national polls, Newt
Gingrich is leading Mitt Romney by nine points. In Iowa, he has a 13-point
lead, less than a month before the Iowa caucuses. In South Carolina,
Gingrich up by 23 points.

Mitt Romney never thought he was going to be in this position. He is
the preferred candidate by all the same Republicans who think Donald Trump
is a joke. And he`s getting his clock cleaned.

Today, Romney dusted off Republicans of yesteryear to attack Newt
Gingrich. Former Vermont Governor John Sununu said Gingrich is more
concerned with himself than conservative principles. Former Missouri
Senator Jim Talent said Gingrich is not a reliable or trustworthy leader.
Not good.

Yesterday, Romney sent Republican New Jersey Governor Chris Christie,
the savior, to Iowa. You know, Christie talked about what makes Romney
different from a candidate like Newt Gingrich.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Politicians can be taught to
fake a lot of things. You can`t fake that. This is someone who I`ve come
to know has an extraordinary heart. He loves his wife. He loves his

First and foremost, when you look at these candidates say, is this the
kind of person who`s always going to make me proud in the Oval Office? I`m
never going to have to worry will embarrass America. That I`ll never have
to worry will do something that just will make me ashamed.

He just won`t.


SCHULTZ: I just didn`t know Chris Christie could be so sappy.

Chris Christie was the guy Republicans wanted to run against Mitt
Romney in the election. He, of course, has been the media darling. He`s
one of the untouchables.

Now, he`s a Romney endorser. But may I ask tonight? Where`s the

Christie`s a lot of talk without a lot of results. He reminds me of
another guy -- Donald Trump.

Trump has turned the Republican Party on its head so he can do what?
Sell a book. He`s still considering a run for the presidency? Really?

Look, folks, he isn`t going to run, because Donald Trump doesn`t have
the guts. Someday, I`m going to leave this job, and I promise you that I
will be the only table host in this industry who will not interview Donald

I don`t know what the media fascination is with this guy. I`m from
the Midwest. OK, he`s a New York media figure. I guess it ends there.
Who cares?

What is he, huge ratings? Does everybody have to have Donald Trump on
to get an audience? I don`t think so. I think the guy`s a complete all-
American zero.

He has no influence on the political process in this country. He`s a
big mouth who gets in front of cameras. And there`s no question his -- I
guess his show on NBC is really good. It ends there.

Nobody out in the middle of the country is going to make a decision on
who they`re going to vote for or endorse because of what Donald Trump says
on any cable show coming out of New York City.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question: do you think Donald Trump`s days as a debate moderator are
numbered? Text A for yes, text B for me to 622639. You can always go to
our blog at And I`ll bring you the results later in the

I have to tell you, I don`t know Donald Trump, I`ve never needed to
know him.

Joining me now is Martin Bashir, host of "THE MARTIN BASHIR SHOW" on
MSNBC, 3:00 Eastern Time here on the network. And also, Mike Papantonio,
host of the "Ring of Fire" radio show.

Gentlemen, good to have you with us tonight.

What is, Martin, the media fascination with this guy?

MARTIN BASHIR, MSNBC HOST: I think you`ve made one mistake. When
Newt Gingrich came to town, he described Donald Trump as a showman.

But in fact, Donald Trump is a spokesman. Because what he does is
when he opens his mouth and the excrementitious matter flows, he casts
aspersions on the president`s birth. He derides and slurs the president`s
academic achievements. And all the time he says what these candidates
can`t say but do believe.

And so, what you have is a man vicariously polluting the trough on
their behalf every single time. He`s not a showman. He`s their spokesman.
And that`s why he`s of value to them.

SCHULTZ: Mike Papantonio, does this -- is this the end of the road
for Donald Trump in this election cycle? Does he have to run now to be
even somewhat relevant?

MIKE PAPANTONIO, "RING OF FIRE" HOST: Well, he`ll always make himself
relevant, even whether he`s not. Look, this is -- he is a showman. And
what`s happened here, the Republicans are always looking for a leader, Ed.

That`s one of their flaws. They`re always trying to find a leader.
And they`re always willing to follow a leader.

So, he has a television show. He looks like a leader. And all of a
sudden, you have these Republicans that are falling crazy over Donald

And what`s happened -- what`s happened here, Ed, is it`s left -- this
chaos has left this big opportunity in the Republican Party. And Newt
Gingrich is smart enough to understand he`s going to walk into that
opportunity, even with the debate. If he`s the only one to show up, he`ll
use that as an opportunity.

So now, what all this chaos and all this Donald Trump story and all
the craziness, this carnival atmosphere we`ve seen with Republicans? What
we now have is a Republican front-runner who the general public does not
like at all. He`s an old politician with more skeletons in his closet than
a damn haunted house. He`s a candidate that the Republicans have got to
have because now they`re going to have to go hold their nose and vote for
this guy.

Mitt Romney, it`s going to be very tough for him to make a comeback.
This chaos has all been created in part by Donald Trump.

SCHULTZ: Now, Trump going to be the moderator even for two people
now. And it may be one after tomorrow. Who knows?

But for Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry to step out of this debate
when they desperately need the camera time, Martin, what about that?

BASHIR: I think that it was one of the most astute decisions that
Rick Perry`s made. Imagine, he wouldn`t have been on a stage with eight
people. He would have been on a stage with two. That means an awful lot
of air time.

And what we know about Rick Perry is that when you talk to him about
foreign policy in a debate he doesn`t know who the Haqqani Network is, an
insurgent group that fights the U.S. forces in Afghanistan. He talks about
Pakistan and he ends up in Taiwan. You ask him in a debate about what his
plans are for domestic policy and he can`t remember the government
departments that he wants to demolish.

This was the brightest thing that Rick Perry has done, by withdrawing.


Well, now we go to Mitt Romney, and of course he`s taking shots at
Newt Gingrich today. Here`s Rick Perry when he was asked about Gingrich`s


PERRY: I didn`t make an oath just to my wife. I made an oath to God
when I married my wife. So yeah, I think it`s an important issue. But the
American people will figure out these issues and work their way through


SCHULTZ: Will they figure it out, Martin?

BASHIR: Well, Perry`s smiling because he`s got nothing to worry
about, as we know. But poor old Newt, I mean, he has the problem of being
a serial adulterer. He`s changed his religious faith.

And that brilliant Romney ad which pointed to Romney`s own 43 years of
monogamy, 25 years at Bain Capital, contrasts brilliantly, brilliantly with

SCHULTZ: Mike, can Mitt Romney make a comeback? I mean, he has got
to be in triage right now. He never thought he was going to be in this
position. He just put a $3 million buy across Iowa. But can he make the

PAPANTONIO: Well, Ed, his message is really no different than it was
the last time that he lost in the primaries. At that point, if you
remember, he spent about a million dollars per delegate just to make it
through the primaries.

I don`t see it happening. I mean, I don`t see anything -- I don`t see
any energy behind Newt. This issue, he`ll not win in the South.

South Carolina is the best message that you`re going to get about Mitt
Romney`s ability in the South. That Mormon card is still there. He`s not
going to pull through.

There`s no new message here, Ed. It`s still the dull, tired character
that we didn`t vote for last time.

SCHULTZ: And Mitt is way behind in Iowa with evangelical Christians,
and even Newt Gingrich is at over 30 percent in that category.

What about him, Martin?

BASHIR: Here`s an example of how desperate Mitt Romney`s become. He
accused the president of appeasement.

The word "appeasement," as you know, and particularly in Europe, where
I hail from, reflects the fact that 38 million people lost their lives in
the Second World War. More than 6 million Jews lost their lives,
mercilessly and brutally murdered. Why? Because Neville Chamberlain was
believed to have appeased -- arranged an appeasement with Hitler.

Now, the reason that the president, when he spoke at that press
conference today, was so aggressive in his response, and you`ll remember,
at the press conference he said, "Ask Osama bin Laden if he thinks I`m an
appeaser." The reason he did that was because that was a disgraceful use
of a term that is loaded with the most appalling history.

But Mitt Romney is so desperate that that`s where he`s going now.
He`s going to be using terms and slurs like that against the president to
attract attention because in this fight, it`s the lowest common denominator
that wins.

SCHULTZ: Martin Bashir, Mike Papantonio, great to have you gentlemen
with us tonight. Thanks so much.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter at @EdShow. We want to know what
you think.

Newt Gingrich is still pounding away at his idea to put poor kids to
work by throwing out child labor laws. I`m not going to let him get away
with it. I`ll talk to Michael Eric Dyson about that.

Republicans in the Senate showed their true colors today, sticking up
for the 1 percent and blocking confirmation of the head of the Consumer
Financial Protection Agency. Senator Bernie Sanders will be here with
reaction on that. The dysfunctional GOP and the obstructionists.

We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, Newt Gingrich continues his dog whistle politics.
Michael Eric Dyson joining me in a moment.

And also President Obama responds to his detractors who have accused
him of appeasement, telling them to ask Osama bin Laden. It`s great tape.

Four Michigan cities -- this is a serious story -- have had emergency
managers take control of their local governments. Lawmakers and residents
of Detroit are working hard to prevent their city from becoming the next

Let us know what you think on Twitter using the #EdShow. We`re
featuring your tweets throughout the show.

Stay with us. We`re right back.



GINGRICH: I got the whole controversy going a week ago because I
suggested children could work. And this became this horrifying -- liberals
went on TV and went, oh, my God, Newt believes in child slavery.


SCHULTZ: Really? Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

That was Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich in South
Carolina today, wordsmithing another one of his positions.

Gingrich keeps thumping away at this big idea to throw out child labor
laws and put poor kids to work. He recently made an exception, though.

"Kids shouldn`t work in coal mines. Kids shouldn`t work in heavy

Thanks for that one, Newt. I`m sure the kids across America
appreciate that.

You see, Newt just can`t help himself. He`s kind of like a high-speed
blender without a top on. You know what I mean? It just goes everywhere.

So he keeps coming out with comments like this one.


GINGRICH: Really poor children in really poor neighborhoods have no
habits of working and have nobody around them who works. They have no
habit of "I do this and you give me cash," unless it`s illegal. What if
they became assistant janitors and their job was to mop the floor and clean
the bathroom?


SCHULTZ: I mean, I`ll say flat out right here, there is a really
undertone of racism here.

And Gingrich has a pattern of going into this kind of territory. He`s
been eager to call President Obama the food stamp president.


GINGRICH: The largest number of Americans on food stamps in history.
I`ve said now for six months, this is the most effective food stamp
president in American history.


SCHULTZ: Gingrich said, "What if Obama is our -- outside of our
comprehension, that only if you understand Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior
you can begin to piece together his actions?"

Gingrich has also said, "Maybe we should also have a voting standard
that says to vote as a native born American, you should have to learn
American history."

As a student of American history himself, Gingrich should know that it
sounds a lot like racist Jim Crow voting laws, doesn`t it?

Let`s turn to Michael Eric Dyson, MSNBC political analyst, who hosted
this program last night. Thanks so much for doing that.


SCHULTZ: He is a professor at Georgetown University and author of the
book "Can You Hear Me Now?"

I`ll tell you, there`s a lot to hear when it comes to Newt Gingrich.
I think that this rises to the level of racism, and I think he needs to be
called on it.

To broad-brush kids in a socioeconomic position that they do not have
a work ethic I think speaks volumes of what this man thinks of humanity.
What do you think?

DYSON: It`s scurrilous, Ed. Thanks for the opportunity again last

It`s scurrilous for him to make those kinds of charges. First of all,
he`s flat out wrong. To suggest that poor kids in the inner city have no
models around them of hard work. Of course, they do.

Even when he made the slight that of course they don`t get -- you
know, I do this thing over here and then I get cash, unless it`s illegal.
Well, first of all, those hustlers are working extremely hard. They may be
unemployed, but they`re working, to be sure.

But there are many more people in low-wage, low-skill jobs who are out
there working. Their parents are working two and three jobs. It`s not
that they`re working. They`re working more than one job.

Has Newt Gingrich not heard of the category called the working poor?
That very title was on the "New York Times" best-seller list less than
seven years ago.


DYSON: And the point is that there are people, Ed, who go to work
every day and work 30, 40, 50, 60 hours a week and still can`t make it
above the poverty line. They`re not lacking work. They`re lacking
opportunity to get high-wage work.

SCHULTZ: When you take a young kid and you force them to work. OK?
Or even if you give them the opportunity to work and they take it at too
young of age, it can really damage them. And it also puts them in a
position when they`re seen by their peers, and it works on their self-
esteem and can put them in a very demeaning position.

DYSON: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: Now, Gingrich continues on. Today Gingrich offered more
specifics on his janitor idea.


GINGRICH: So I suggested if you took the cost of the New York City
janitors, the most expensive janitors in New York are paid more than the
highest-paid teachers. The entry-level janitor is paid twice as much as an
entry-level teacher. It`s all because of the union.

So, I said, let`s take -- let`s keep two janitors who are adults who
are professional. They do all the heavy stuff and the dangerous stuff.
Then let`s take all the other jobs and divide them up into part-time kids.
And you could probably in the average school hire 30 children.


SCHULTZ: So, we have gone from child labor laws being cut out to now
let`s attack the union. What do you make of this?

DYSON: It`s just a mishmash of just mendacity because on the one
hand, he`s talking about giving these kids all these jobs. Well, at
schools, at universities they have work-study. To try to put them -- look
how low he`s aiming. He doesn`t want them to be retrained so that they can
enter the workplace and make a decent wage.

Remember Comprehensive Employment Training Act, 1973, where you had
targeted low income people to be able to work for 12 to 24 months to get a
job and then to transition into permanent jobs that were unsubsidized?
What about that? What about neighborhood youth corps?

He`s inventing, he`s talking nothing about the programs that could
help young people facilitate a transition into a work world where they will
be compensated for their work. And the point you made is extremely
important, that if you put these kids to work too early, that`s why we had
the child labor laws enacted. That`s why when kids were being exploited
and in one sense doing -- horrible things were done to them, the reality is
that we intervened upon that by making these child labor laws here.

Now, Newt Gingrich wants to throw that out the door and he wants to
have a free labor pool. Darn near indentured servitude for young children
who are poor to serve the masses and those who are rich.

SCHULTZ: And you know, these aren`t isolated comments. Gingrich has
talked about making people take a test to vote.

DYSON: Oh, yes.

SCHULTZ: He said he will be the paycheck president, not the food
stamp president. What do you make of that?

DYSON: Well, as you`ve brilliantly pointed out, it`s dog whistle
racism. It`s a racially obnoxious suggestion that African-American people
or Latino people are not willing to work and not willing to work hard. All
of the stuff he`s been saying cumulatively ends up resulting in a kind of
horrible underestimation of African-American and Latino people and an
overvaluing of the situation for white Americans in this economy.

We all know this economy is bad for everybody. So, why is he
pretending he doesn`t know that the economic downturn has blasted African-
American and Latino people especially hard?

SCHULTZ: I`ll tell you what, if this guy becomes president, the
Republicans will walk right with him on this issue. You know they will,
because all they are is about busting up the unions, and they`re all about
the money. Notice in that sound bite we just played of Newt Gingrich he
talked about the money.

DYSON: Right.

SCHULTZ: What about the investment in the children? You`re going to
make kids do work around a school instead of teaching them writing,
reading, arithmetic and all the advanced studies that they can learn before
they go to junior high school or go to high school and get prepared for

DYSON: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: I mean, don`t we want kids to go to school in this country,
to prepare themselves to go to college and to get a degree and to get some
academic accomplishments so they can compete in this global economy?

Instead, oh, you know, they come from a bad family that might be split
up or whatever, and the way he characterizes it, and they come from a
socioeconomic background. Well, let`s just make them a janitor.

DYSON: Exactly, Ed.

SCHULTZ: I cannot believe --

DYSON: It`s stunning.

SCHULTZ: -- that the Republican Party isn`t calling him out on this.

DYSON: Well, I`m glad you are. Because what he wants to do is find a
contingent of workers that are basically, you know, unpaid labor to service
the higher, the middle, and especially the upper middle and the elite
classes in this society.

It`s a fundamentally flawed conception of class. And you`re talking
about class warfare? That`s class warfare.

SCHULTZ: Well, it is class warfare. It is. And you know what? We
all know, Michael, there`s never been any rich kids that were lazy.
They`ve all got a great work ethic. Of course it`s --

DYSON: And they never become president of the United States of

SCHULTZ: Great you have to with us, my friend. Thank you.

DYSON: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Michael Eric Dyson, professor of Georgetown with us here
tonight on THE ED SHOW.

Coming up, President Obama knocks down Republican criticism of his
national security record with one sentence. I loved it.

And in "Psycho Talk," Florida Congressman Allen West, he`s back at it.
He thinks President Obama should stop talking about equality?


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. President Obama is definitely
ready to rumble on foreign policy. At a Republican Jewish Coalition event
yesterday in Washington, the GOP presidential candidates tried to paint the
president as weak on national security.


Obama has adopted an appeasement strategy.





ROMNEY: Appeasement.



SANTORUM: Appeasing.

ROMNEY: Appeasing.


BACHMANN: President Obama must immediately end his doctrine of


SCHULTZ: They got the bullet points down, don`t they? Well,
President Obama responded this morning. And he hit a home run.


the 22 out of 30 top al Qaeda leaders who`ve been taken off the field
whether I engage in appeasement. Or whoever`s left out there. Ask them
about that.


SCHULTZ: Ask Osama bin Laden is all the president needs to say. It
should be his answer anytime a Republican tries to criticize him on foreign
policy. In fact, I think he could make it work as a response to any kind
of criticism.


ROMNEY: The president went about this all wrong. He went around the
world and apologized for America.

OBAMA: Ask Osama bin Laden --

REPSANTORUM: All the radical Islamist leaders are saying is that just
wait America out. America is weak.

OBAMA: Ask Osama bin Laden --

BACHMANN: The president has been a failure when it comes to foreign

OBAMA: Ask Osama bin laden.

BACHMANN: It is as though we have decided we want to lose in the war
on terror under President Obama.

OBAMA: And the 22 out of 30 top al Qaeda leaders who`ve been taken
off the field.

GINGRICH: The Obama administration`s dangerous policies of
incoherence and accommodation.

OBAMA: Ask Osama bin Laden --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This guy goes around the world bowing to

OBAMA: Ask Osama bin Laden --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the things the president has done when he -
- especially when he goes abroad and apologizes for America, it`s extremely

OBAMA: Ask Osama bin Laden --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hundreds of billions in tax hikes and new spending
bound together with the chintzy clip. Look at that thing.

OBAMA: Ask Osama bin Laden and the 22 out of 30 top al Qaeda leaders
who`ve been taken off the field. Ask them about that.


SCHULTZ: I like the fact that the White House is keeping score. And
we should too as Americans. I think that there should be a great bumper
sticker out there, don`t you? "Ask Osama bin Laden." Republicans don`t
have a leg to stand on when it comes to criticizing the president of the
United States on foreign policy.

And I can`t wait to see Mitt or Newt try this garbage when they share
the stage with the president during the 2012 debates, whoever gets to. To
quote a former president, "bring it on."

President Obama also took on Senate Republicans for blocking his
choice for the Consumer Financial Protection Agency. Senator Bernie
Sanders has reaction to the vote and the GOP obstruction strategy is next.

And later, this is a huge story that America needs to pay attention
to. There are four cities in the state of Michigan that have been taken
over by city managers because of new legislation in the state of Michigan.
Detroit will be next. If the lawmakers can help it, they`ll try to stop
it. Stay with us. We`re right back.



OBAMA: I just want to send a message to the Senate. We are not
giving up on this. We are going to keep on going at it. We are not going
to allow politics as usual on Capitol Hill to stand in the way of American
consumers being protected by unscrupulous financial operators.


SCHULTZ: That was President Obama calling out GOP obstructionism
earlier today. Of course, the Senate Republicans let 99 percent of
Americans know exactly where they stand, with Wall Street. Republicans
blocked the confirmation of Richard Cordray, a former Ohio attorney
general, picked by President Obama to lead the new Consumer Financial
Protection Agency.

The final vote, 53-45. And all no votes coming from the extremist
right-wing republicans. In fact, the only extremist right-wing Republican
to vote for Cordray was Senator Scott Brown of Massachusetts. Brown is
currently trailing in the polls to Democrat Elizabeth Warren, the very
person who created the agency.

The GOP has consistently spoken out against Mr. Cordray`s nomination.
And it`s no secret Republicans hate the fact that the agency even exists.

This is a head scratcher considering the agency`s main purpose is to
protect consumers from financial abuses. But Republicans would rather
protect Wall Street and to hell with the middle class. And the GOP
obstructionism is reaching new heights.

As Steve Bennett of the "Washington Monthly" points out, cloture was
invoked 63 times in 2009 and 2010, which isn`t just the most ever. It`s
more than the sum total of instances from 1919 through 1982."

You be the judge. Need any further proof? Take a look at this chart.
There`s a lot going on here, folks. But here`s what you need to know.
Take a look at the blue line. Once Democrats took control of Congress and
Barack Obama became president of the United States, obstructionism went
through the roof. You can see it right there.

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders with us tonight here on THE ED SHOW.
Senator, good to have you with us. The charts don`t lie, do they?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: No, they surely don`t. The day
after Obama got elected, I think the Republicans made a decision. They
will do everything that they could to stop his agenda. If the issue means
rebuilding our infrastructure and creating jobs, they will obstruct. If
the issue means taking on Wall Street and protecting consumers, they will

If the issue is transforming our energy system, dealing with global
warming, they will obstruct. Because what`s important to them is not
rebuilding the middle class or protecting the United States of America.
It`s defeating Barack Obama. And it`s a pretty sad state of affairs.

SCHULTZ: Is Mr. Cordray a good guy? Is he qualified? He`s a former
attorney general of Ohio. We have never heard any complaints about him
before. All of a sudden,. he`s a no go. What`s happening here?

SANDERS: What`s happening here? As you mentioned, Elizabeth Warren
would have been my preferred leader of that agency. But she is running and
I think running well for the U.S. Senate. We hope she wins.

Everything that I`ve heard about Cordray is that he is strong. He is
a consumer advocate. And that for them, Ed, is precisely the problem. If
it comes to whether or not banks can charge you 25 or 30 percent interest
on your credit card or if you are going to have somebody in your corner
fighting against usury, well, I guess the Republicans are pretty clear
which side they are on.

Whether you`re going to have a fair deal when you have a mortgage and
not get ripped off, as so many millions of American people have --


SANDERS: -- or you protect the banks, they have made it clear which
side they`re on.

SCHULTZ: Senator, is he just the man in the bulls eye right now?
They would say no to anybody.

SANDERS: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: They don`t want this agency whatsoever.

SANDERS: Absolutely. Look, this is -- look, they opposed the agency,
if you can believe it. After Wall Street, as a result of deregulation,
caused this terrible recession, you know what they believe, Ed? They
believe we need more deregulation of Wall Street, opposed to any of the
stronger provisions in Dodd-Frank.

So it is not Mr. Cordray. It is anybody with any strength at all who
will try to protect consumers in this new agency.

SCHULTZ: Shifting gears, what did you think of President Obama`s
speech at the place where Teddy Roosevelt gave his speech in Kansas?

SANDERS: I thought it was good. And I hope very much that the
president will continue to speak out as a progressive. I hope that he
remembers who elected him. And I hope he also understands that it`s not
just words, but it is deeds.

We need this president to be strong, to be a leader, to make sure that
the middle class and the working class understands that he is on their
side. And that means standing up to Wall Street, taking on the
Republicans, not retreating. I think that`s the right thing to do. And I
think it`s good politics as well.

SCHULTZ: And of course the Democrats` plan to extend the payroll tax
cut failed again today. You had another vote. So will the Senate, going
to be working over the holidays to pass this? What do you think`s going to

SANDERS: Well, Harry Reid was very, very clear. And I think this is
an indication of the democrats gaining some focus. And what Reid said to a
group of us, if we have to be here until Christmas, we will be here at
Christmas time.

I`m not a great fan of the payroll tax holiday. I am a strong
supporter of tax relief for the middle class, making sure it is done in a
progressive and fair way. And I think the Democrats are prepared to fight
for that.

SCHULTZ: Every Democratic lawmaker that I have spoken with in recent
days is saying that extending the Bush tax cuts is off the table. It`s a
non-starter. That`s the term I`m hearing, a non-starter. Could this be
the time when the Democrats actually draw a line in the sand, and go any
further, no matter what`s on the table, as far as the Republicans` demands
are concerned?

SANDERS: Well, the answer is I certainly hope that`s the case. The
American people, Ed, have been extremely clear on this. The rich are
getting richer. The middle class is collapsing. And the American people
are saying, you know what? The wealthiest people in this country have got
to participate in deficit reduction. They`ve got to pay more taxes.

And also, we`ve got to keep the focus on jobs. And furthermore, in my
view, we`ve got to draw a line in the sand, defend Social Security, defend
Medicare, defend Medicaid.

SCHULTZ: What about those folks at are on unemployment right now
that`s going to end here? There`s going to be a bunch of people, well over
a million, coming up on February 1st. And the president seems very adamant
about getting these two things done before anybody takes off for the

SANDERS: Absolutely right. He`s absolutely right.

SCHULTZ: What if it doesn`t happen?

SANDERS: Well, if it doesn`t happen, we`re going to be having
Christmas breakfast I think in the Capitol. And we`re going to be here
through January. I think you can`t allow tens of thousands of families in
this country to lose their only means of support. It is bad and immoral to
do that to those families.

It is bad for the economy. We`ve got to put money into people,
working people`s hands, so they can survive and they spend that money
helping create jobs.

SCHULTZ: Vermont Senator Bernie sanders, great to have you on the
program again tonight, sir. Thank you.

SANDERS: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Alan West doesn`t think liberty and equality go
together. The Tea Party needs a refresher course on the American
revolution, don`t you think? He`s going in the Zone. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in Psycho Talk tonight, Tea Party and Florida
Congressman Alan West, well, he`s done it again. West wasn`t a big fan of
President Obama`s speech on the economy this week. And he came up with a
very bizarre way to trash it.


REP. ALAN WEST (R), FLORIDA: I`m very concerned about this very
divisive rhetoric that the president is using when he continues to talk
about equality and fairness and this thing that I think that is really
contrary to the principles that I mentioned, as far as life, liberty, and
pursuit of happiness.


SCHULTZ: So Allen West thinks equality is contrary to life, liberty,
and the pursuit of happiness, the famous phrase from the Declaration of

In fact, let`s take a look at it. "We hold these truths to be self-
evident, that all men are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable
rights. That among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

My friends, that quote is incomplete. You see, we left out "all men
are created equal" in the same sentence, Alan. A proud Tea Partier such as
yourself, you should know that. Equality and liberty together were
fundamental to the founding of this country. So for Alan West to say
equality is not an American principle is divisive Psycho Talk.

Is a state law in Michigan unfairly targeting minority communities?
There are critics out and about who say absolutely. Reverend David Bullock
of the faith community joins me next. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Survey tonight on THE ED SHOW, I asked, do you think Donald
Trump`s days as a debate moderator are numbered? Ninety six percent of you
said yes; four percent of you said no.

Coming up, financially strapped cities in Michigan are having their
elected officials replaced with state-appointed managers. Reverend David
Bullock of the Detroit Baptist Church explains what that could mean for his
community and other communities in the state. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And finally tonight, my stomach turns when I read about this
law in Michigan. This isn`t what it was intended to be. Four cities and
one school district are currently under financial, I guess you could say,
martial law of the state of Michigan. It all happened to have a very high
minority population, in all of these communities.

Public Act 4 takes control away from elected officials and puts it in
the hands of a state-appointed financial emergency manager. Emergency
managers can scrap anything they want, union contracts, any contracts.
Sell assets and just fire workers just to make the budget work.

The state decides when to put a cash-strapped municipality in the
hands of an emergency manager. And currently there are four cities in
Michigan that are under review, including the state`s largest, Detroit.

If Detroit ends up under emergency manager rule, almost half of the
state`s African-American population would live under the control of the
state-appointed manager and not -- and I say not a democratically elected

Detroit lawmakers are fighting it. One councilman equates an
emergency manager to "a master, as someone to control the plantation."

Meanwhile, Congressman Jon Conyers is asking Attorney General Eric
Holder to investigate the measure. Conyers says an emergency manager for
Detroit "would be perpetrating the discrimination on even a more egregious

Republican Governor Rick Snyder is encouraging the city to take a
consent agreement.


GOV. RICK SNYDER (R), MICHIGAN: A consent agreement is where
basically they design a plan that we have confidence in that they should
have the opportunity to execute. And I`m happy to be very supportive of
helping them execute it, but give them the chance for success.


SCHULTZ: So how heavy-handed is it? Joining me tonight is Reverend
David Bullock. He`s the pastor of the Greater St. Matthew Baptist Church
of Highland Park, Michigan, and president of the Rainbow Push in Detroit.
Reverend, good to have you with us tonight.

I met you Sunday night in Detroit, where I spoke at a church there.
And this is all the people we`re talking about. They told me that they
refer to this as the Dictator Law. How oppressive is this? And how are
the people responding?

Ed. Thank you for having me on the show tonight. It was so good to see
you in Detroit. The greatest threat to democracy in America is found in
Michigan. And they are Michigan`s emergency dictators -- I mean managers.

While we were worried about Wisconsin and worried about laws that
would prohibit people from voting in Georgia, in Michigan we have voted,
and Governor Snyder has made our vote null and void. If Detroit gets an
emergency manager, you have Benton Harbor, Pontiac, Flint, Ecourse (ph) and
then Detroit, but roughly 40 percent of the African-Americans who live in
the state of Michigan will be under emergency management.

This is not what democracy looks like. This is not what America looks
like. Public Act 4 is bad for democracy.

SCHULTZ: This is a government takeover. What do you think?

BULLOCK: It is. It`s a state takeover of school districts. It`s a
state takeover of cities. I mean, remember now, we voted in Detroit for a
mayor. We voted in Detroit for a city council. In Benton Harbor, they
voted for a mayor. They voted for city commissioners.

And so then the state can come in and appoint one man or one woman to
unilaterally make decisions about collective bargaining agreements, make
decisions about selling city assets. The people have no voice? Their vote
does not count in the city of Pontiac.

SCHULTZ: Pastor, I just find this so hard to believe, that a governor
has the power now to appoint somebody who has nothing to do with the city,
to come in for 180,000 dollars a year, I might add, and start making all
the decisions with the citizens having no say whatsoever. Do I have that

BULLOCK: You have that right. Ed, you find it hard to believe. We
thought that the enemy of democracy was in Egypt. It turns out that the
enemy of democracy is in Michigan. Michigan is the new Mississippi, where
you have a governor who puts emergency dictators over cities and school
districts, and unilaterally makes our voices and our vote null and void.

This is happening in Michigan. So we`re so happy to be on the show
tonight because we need to highlight the attack against democracy, the
attack against the people of Benton Harbor, of Flint, of Pontiac, of
Ecourse, and soon to be Detroit.

Something has got to stop. We`ve got to stand up and fight back
against Public Act 4.

SCHULTZ: Pastor Bullock, do you think this has also a connection to
voter suppression?

BULLOCK: Of course it does. Of course it`s a connection to voter
suppression. When the state takes over a city, the state can also kick the
mayor out of his office, kick the city council out of their office, but
also take over the clerk`s office.

So, for instance, in Pontiac, Michigan, the state actually is running
the clerk`s office. You and I both know that the clerk`s office
administers local elections. And so under this law, you actually can have
the state take over a city, commandeer the clerk`s office, and begin to
administer local elections.

So while in Georgia and in other states, the challenge is fighting
against laws that would prohibit voting; in Michigan the challenge is
fighting against a law that doesn`t even make voting count, that makes
voting null and void.

SCHULTZ: And what is the faith community doing about this?

BULLOCK: Well, the faith community is fighting back. We have a
referendum campaign against Public Act 4. We`ve collected 155,000
signatures. We need 50,000 more in the next month and a half. I would ask
people to go to Facebook, to Rainbow Push Detroit page. On Facebook, the
Rainbow Push Detroit page, and like that page.

There`s information on that page about how they can get involved. Let
me also say, Ed, the governor says that emergency managers come in because
we have to have shared sacrifice and they come in to cut. Yeah, they come
in and cut. They come in and cut firefighters. They come in and cut
police officers. You know, surgeons cut. They cut to cure you. Ax
murderers cut. They cut to kill you.

Emergency managers are not surgeons. They are ax murderers. They`re
coming in and they`re cutting democracy.

SCHULTZ: Reverend David Bullock, we will visit again on this. I
think it`s the biggest story in America because if the governor of Michigan
gets away with this, it will spread like wildfire to other conservative-
ruled legislators across America. I think it`s very, very dangerous. I
cannot believe this is happening in America.

Good to have you with us tonight. That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed
Schultz. Next up, "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW."


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