The Ed Show for Wednesday, April 25, 2012

Guests: Pat Quinn, George Miller, Bernie Sanders

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.

Mitt Romney`s hero is Scott Walker. Tonight, I`ll show you what Mitt
would do to America with Walker`s playbook.

And Sean Hannity is all bent out of shape because I proved how out of
touch he is. Sean, there`s more where that came from tonight.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.


MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And, of course, your great
governor -- what a hero he is -- Scott Walker.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Mitt Romney`s hero has caused a job disaster in
Wisconsin. Now Americans have to decide if they want Scott Walker`s train
wreck on a national level.

Tonight, Illinois Governor Pat Quinn on the success of his state and
America`s choice.

The presumptive nominee`s presumptive pick for vice president can`t
get it done without a teleprompter.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Free to become prosperous. I left my
last page of the speech.

SCHULTZ: Republicans are playing games with student loans.

of Congress who compared these student loans to a stage three cancer of

SCHULTZ: You won`t believe what Boehner and his gang are trying to

OBAMA: Stage three cancer -- I don`t know where to start.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just personally do not agree with the highest
office of the land going on these comedy shows. I think it lowers the
status of the office.

SCHULTZ: And the right wing freaks out over the president`s
appearance on late-night.

JIMMY FALLON: You and Bo, you get together, you go to the
presidential man cave.

OBAMA: We go to the man cave, we turn on SportsCenter.

SCHULTZ: Tonight, we`ll set the curvy couch straight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And right now, a bunch of former presidents are
like, "Huh?" I think it`s nutso.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for

Republicans have no understanding of what economic progress is for the
poor and the middle class in this country. President Obama continued to
hammer home that point today.


OBAMA: And then you`ve got the spokesman for the speaker of the
House, who said we`re -- meaning me, my administration -- we`re just
talking about student loans to distract people from the economy.

Now, think about that for a second, because these guys don`t get it.
This is the economy. This is the economy. This is about your job
security. This is about your future.

If you do well, the economy does well. This is about the economy.


SCHULTZ: It makes good economic sense to keep interest rates for
college students at reasonable levels. But Republicans have different
ideas for economic growth.

Mitt Romney`s speech last night was short on policy, specifics, but
long on Republican Party talking points.


ROMNEY: We will stop the unfairness of urban children being denied
access to the good schools of their choice. We will stop the unfairness of
requiring union workers to contribute to politicians not of their choosing.
We will stop the unfairness of government workers getting better pay and
benefits than the very taxpayers they serve.


SCHULTZ: Well, let`s see, school vouchers, union-busting, eliminating
good-paying, public sector jobs, Romney is reading right out of the Scott
Walker playbook, which is no surprise considering how highly Romney thinks
of the Wisconsin governor.


ROMNEY: It is nice to be in a hall of champions tonight. And I say
that -- you guys, this is the place. Chairman Priebus, thank you. Jim
Sensenbrenner here. Paul Ryan, what a champion. Senator Ron Johnson.
And, of course, your great governor -- what a hero he is -- Scott Walker.
Thank you.


SCHULTZ: Oh, what a hero he is. Mitt Romney might want to check out
the local papers in Wisconsin before praising his hero, Scott Walker.

Here`s the headline the people of Wisconsin woke up to this morning,
"State job losses worst in the United States."

For 14 months, I have been telling you on this program about the
dangers of this radical governor in Wisconsin and his agenda. All of the
warnings are now memorialized in these numbers. And that headline.

From March 2011 to March 2012, Wisconsin has lost 23,900 jobs. The
Bureau of Labor statistics says that Wisconsin is the only state in the
nation with statistically significant job losses over the past year. Now,
17,800 of these jobs were from the public sector, 6,100 of these jobs were
from the private sector.

No other state in the country has lost more private sector jobs over
the last 12 months.

The numbers don`t lie. How would you like this to be your state, your

This is what huge tax breaks for corporations does to your state.
This is what happens when you can cut education, when you cut health care,
when you cut social services, and you go after people`s voices in the
workplace. This is what happens when you turn your back on labor and you
put yourself against the people and try to pit worker against worker.

But Scott Walker doesn`t -- well, he doesn`t see it that way. Never
has. To him, these policies are a success.

Just last month, he was on FOX News breaking his arm, patting himself
on the back while he was trashing the governor of Illinois.


GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: The more we get the message out,
the more we get the truth out, the more we compare ourselves to Illinois,
and they see the failed policies down there don`t work, the better off we

If people want to know what would you get out of a recall if it`s
successful, I say just look to the south of Springfield, because those are
the same policies that failed in the past in Wisconsin and they`d fail
again here.


SCHULTZ: Scott Walker`s state has employment numbers like this. But
he is talking about the failed policies of Illinois? In the past year, the
state of Illinois -- well, they have gained 31,700 jobs. The state of
Illinois, you see, they didn`t go to war with the workers.

In fact, Illinois did something unthinkable from the Republican
playbook. The state raised income taxes in 2011. Now people are going
back to work. And they`re being able to pay their bills.

In Wisconsin, more people are out of work than before Scott Walker
took office. Oh, it must be the protests. Well, why do you think they`re

Walker thinks of himself as some government revolutionary. He
believes his actions in Wisconsin will reshape the country.


WALKER: Came home from the Super Bowl where the Packers won, and that
Monday night I had all my cabinet over to the residence for dinner. Talked
about what we were going to do, how we were going to do it. We had already
kind of built plans up, but it was kind of the last hurrah before we
dropped the bomb. I said, this is our moment, this is our time to change
the course of history, and this is why it`s so important that they were all


SCHULTZ: Oh, yes. Scott Walker, I guess he`s the canary in the coal

This is the plan he had for the state. Here it is. Here`s what you
get when you attack workers. When you think that you can balance the
budget on the backs of the workers of the state.

The Republican blueprint for the future in 2011 is now being played
out. The Republican future is job losses at the expense of corporate
welfare. It`s tax cuts for the rich at the expense of the very poor and
the infrastructure in the state.

And this really is the direction that Mitt Romney wants to take the
United States of America if he gets the chance. Don`t give him the chance.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question, would Mitt Romney implement Scott Walker`s job-
killing policies as president?

Text "A" for yes, text "B" for no to 622639. You can always go to our
blog at and leave a comment there. We`ll bring you the
results later on in the show.

Joining me tonight, I`m honored to have the governor of Illinois on
the program, Governor Pat Quinn.

Governor, good to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

GOV. PAT QUINN (D), ILLINOIS: Same here. Same here, Ed. I see you
almost every night when I come home about 10:00. You know, you`re on rerun
in Illinois as well. So we see you now and then later on.

SCHULTZ: That`s because you`re working all day, creating jobs.

QUINN: I sure am.

SCHULTZ: Well, let`s talk about that. The "Bloomberg" economic state
index has the state of Illinois ranked at number three. Your neighboring
governor has used with you as a whipping post. He`s gone around saying
that we don`t want to be like Illinois.

Well, now, the numbers are in, they`re memorialized.

How has Illinois been able to create jobs -- and that`s the big story
in America, job creation -- how have you been able to do it while
Wisconsin, your neighbor, has not been able to do it? What are you doing?

QUINN: Well, Wisconsin`s dead last at job growth. Don`t listen to
Scott Walker if you want to get jobs in your state. And we sure haven`t
listened to him.

We believe in our workers. We have skilled, educated workers, we
believe in investing in education. I was just with the UAW and, you know,
when I became governor and President Obama became president, the auto
industry needed a helping hand. And we did it in Illinois and we`ve done
it across our country.

In Illinois, we have Chrysler, going to have 4,600 jobs this summer,
building a new Dodge Dart. When we began, they only had 200 jobs.

Ford has got three shifts around the clock in our state, making cars
and trucks as well.

And then we also have Diamond Star doing very well. They make trucks.

Caterpillar had its best year ever last year. And same with John
Deere. And these are all manufacturing jobs.

SCHULTZ: So manufacturing has bounced back in the state of Illinois.

Now, I want to know, have you attacked the institutions, the public
sector jobs the way Walker has done that in Wisconsin?

QUINN: No, no. We believe in the right of collective bargaining.
You don`t always agree, if you`re governor, you`re going to have
disagreements, but you negotiate those over a table, and that`s what we
have to do in Illinois and across America.

I think you have to honor the workers of our country, whether they
worked in the private sector or the public sector. They`re the heart and
soul of America and made in America are my favorite words.

SCHULTZ: Well, the people of Wisconsin woke up to this headline this
morning, state job losses, worst in the United States. What would you say
to them as governor of a neighboring state? Now, you said, don`t listen to
Walker, but is it really a result of a government overreach? What is it?

QUINN: Well, I think you have to understand that when you work
together as a team, you go a lot farther.

I want to give you an example. I believe in high-speed rail. We`re
building high-speed rail from Chicago to St. Louis. And because Scott
Walker turned that down in Wisconsin, his predecessor, Jim Doyle, was all
for it. We would have a route going from Chicago to Milwaukee on to
Madison. He turned it down.

We got part of their money to more people to work in Illinois on rail.
And as a matter of fact, one company, Nippon Sharyo, left with Wisconsin
and came to our state of Illinois to manufacture railway cars.

This is the kind of thing you`ve got to do in the 21st century.
You`ve got to invest in innovation, invest in manufacturing, and not listen
to ideologues like Governor Walker.

I like to work as a team with the whole Midwest, but when he arrived,
he wanted to kick me in the shins and our state, and we`re not going to
take that at all.

SCHULTZ: OK. You hear the bullet point from the right wing. You
can`t raise taxes on the job creators.

Have you raised taxes on the wealthiest residents in your state?

QUINN: Well, I inherited a huge deficit from my predecessor,
Blagojevich, and we had to get out of the deficit. We had to raise the
income tax. It`s no fun to do that.


QUINN: We had to stabilize the economy, much like President Clinton
did when he became president back in the `90s.

SCHULTZ: But this is a key point. They`re saying that you can`t
raise taxes on the wealthiest residents and create jobs, and your record
shows just the opposite.

QUINN: Yes, we have lower employment today than we did when we had to
do the revenue increase. Not only that, Ed, we`ve increased our exports by
almost 30 percent in Illinois. Wisconsin, like, was 11 percent.

We`re well above the national average in Illinois, because we
understand that when you invest in people, when you have good education, we
used our revenue to invest in our schools, to make sure we have good
preschool, early childhood, as well as great community colleges -- very
important in a global economy and a great four-year universities.

We want to make sure everybody`s in and nobody`s left out when it
comes to job growth and economic development.

SCHULTZ: OK, Governor. And I assume you think that the Bears will
probably have a better draft than the Packers then, correct?

QUINN: Yes, we`re definitely for the bears over the Packers. But I
think take a look at Illinois`s job growth versus Wisconsin, and come on
into Illinois. Everybody`s welcome.

SCHULTZ: All right. Governor Pat Quinn, thanks for your time
tonight, and good job.

QUINN: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Good job. You`re doing exactly what they say can`t be done.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. I want to know what you

And next, Republicans agree to extend low interest rates for student
loans, but how are they going to pay for it? By gutting health care?
Congressman George Miller who chairs the committee joins me.

And also, Mitt Romney still hasn`t closed the deal with conservatives.
And their top choice for vice president could really use one of those
President Obama teleprompters?

Stay with us. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Coming up, Republicans have a plan to keep student loan
interest rates low. But you won`t believe what they want to do to pay for
it. We`ll tell you.

And the Senate passes a bill that helps stop the bleeding at the
Postal Service. I`ll ask Senator Bernie Sanders with us tonight what else
Congress needs to do to save the post office. I`ve got a few ideas.

And Paul Ryan says his budget was shaped by his Catholic faith. But
cuts to food programs for the poor has Catholic leaders speaking out and
protesting in a big way.

Share your thoughts on Twitter using the #EdShow.

We`re right back.



OBAMA: Helping more young people -- helping more young people afford
college should be at the forefront of America`s agenda and it shouldn`t be
a Republican or a Democratic issue. This is an American issue.


SCHULTZ: President Obama in Iowa City, Iowa, earlier today,
reassuring students that he is on their side as the fight over student loan
rates just continues.

Now, the president has really boxed the GOP into a corner here. But
here comes Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, laying down the groundwork for
the Republicans` next move.


SEN. ROY BLUNT (R), MISSOURI: Why is that rate as high as it is?
Because it was one of the pay-fors in the president`s health care plan.
You know, if the health care plan goes away, as the court very well might
decide, there`s no longer an argument about this loan rate, because it was
used to take money from students and pay for health care and largely health
care for people who aren`t students.


SCHULTZ: Blunt doesn`t have a clue. He doesn`t know what the hell
he`s talking about. The president doesn`t want to fund health care that
way at all.

Meanwhile, Speaker John Boehner announced late this afternoon that the
House will vote Friday on a bill to extend low interest rates for student
loans, paid for by gutting health care.


by taking money from one of the slush funds in the president`s health care

You know, this the week, the president`s traveling the country on the
taxpayers` dime, campaigning and trying to invent a fight where there isn`t
one, and never has been one on this issue of student loans.


SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in Congressman George Miller of California, the
ranking member on the House education in the workforce committee.

George, great to have you with us tonight.


SCHULTZ: I have to ask you about what Roy Blunt said. Was this a
pay-for to raise the student rates to help pay for the health care bill?
Take us down that road.

MILLER: No, Roy Blunt has it backwards. We lowered the interest
rates in 2007, when we took money from the bank that we were paying them as
middle men to loan the government money to students and families. We said,
let`s get rid of the middle men and let`s give the benefits to students and

We did that on a very large bipartisan vote back in 2007, and that
became the law. We did it for four years, because that`s all that we could
afford with that pay-for.

So, Roy Blunt has it all backwards. He`s got the health care bill
mixed up with what happened several years before in the Bush

SCHULTZ: Well, I mean, this is what the Republicans are pretty good
at, confusing the public, attacking health care, making it look like
Democrats have no clue what they`re doing. The priority is to make sure --
and correct me if I`m wrong -- to make sure that students in this country
get a low rate and keep a low rate so they have a chance at getting out of
debt sooner, is that right?

MILLER: That`s the priority. And again, just as Roy Bunt had it all
mixed up, Speaker Boehner has it all mixed up, because he says there never
was an issue about this in the country. Interestingly enough, when we
lowered the interest rates, he opposed that.

And just a week ago, we had a anonymous vote by the Republicans in the
Ryan Republican budget to double the interest rates. They all voted to
double the interest rates.

President Obama goes out on the stump around the country for three
days and they find religion and now they`re rushing to lower the interest
rates. And thank you very much for their conversion and for their
following the guidance of President Obama and understanding how importance
this is to families and young people going to college.

SCHULTZ: Well, I want Americans to grasp this. This is on paper,
that the Ryan budget plan would bring the interest rates up on students and
fix it there. And here`s John Boehner tonight saying that it was never
really an issue.

The hell it wasn`t. They were trying to stick it of students and now
they`re backpedaling.

Now, if I`m wrong, Congressman, you`ve got to straighten me out.

MILLER: That`s exactly what happened.


MILLER: They had a unanimous vote for the Ryan budget. The Ryan
budget anticipated and planned for the doubling of the interest rates on
July 1st to 6.8 percent and then staying there.

SCHULTZ: OK. Now, when the House GOP voted on tax cuts for the
wealthy, where were their offsets? I mean, they`re big on offsets, but
when they wanted to cut another check to the wealthiest Americans, they
didn`t have any offsets, did they?

MILLER: No, they didn`t have any offsets last week when they gave the
wealthiest, not only who are getting all the tax, they lowered another tax
break onto the wealthiest people -- people like Paris Hilton and others, I
mean, the idle wealthy, if you will. And they didn`t pay for that at all.

But the minute we come to student loans that`s for middle income and
low income families and students, the minute we do that, there must be a
pay-for. And we`re fine with the pay-for, we`ll do that. But it`s
interesting that they never want to pay for any of the benefits that the
wealthy get. But now, they want a pay-for here.

And as you mentioned, their pay-for tonight we`ve learned comes out of
the preventative fund in the health care bill which screens women for
cervical and breast cancer, immunizes children, and screens for birth

SCHULTZ: Well, Boehner calls that a slush fund.

MILLER: That`s a slush fund, for children with birth defects.
Speaker Boehner thinks that`s the slush fund. For immunizing vulnerable
children, he thinks that`s a slush fund? He thinks money used to screen
women for cervical and breast cancer is a slush fund?

The speaker`s got it really upside down and wrong, and it`s
essentially an immoral position that you would deny these individuals
access to health care.

SCHULTZ: So what do you make of Mitt Romney, all of a sudden
following the president, coming back to the microphone the other day
saying, oh, yes, by the way, I want to extend these loan rates, too. This
is a flip-flop, is it not?

MILLER: You know, he was very auditory on the Ryan Republican budget,
and the Ryan Republican budget doubled the interest rates in July 1st of
this year.


MILLER: That`s why we`re fighting so far. And finally the
Republicans have joined us in saying they`re now for lowering the interest
rates, but they`re going to take that out of the hide of the most
vulnerable people. I mean, just now women are getting full access to
health care because of the health care reform bill, and now they`re going
to take away screening, once again for women, for breast cancer and
cervical cancer.

SCHULTZ: Yes. There is no connection between student interest rates
and the health care bill, what Roy Blunt was talking about. It`s amazing
where the Republicans will go.

Congressman George Miller, great to have you with us tonight.

MILLER: Thank you so much, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Thank you.

Senator Majority Leader Harry Reid is singing the praises of a bill to
save the Postal Service. Hold the phone. I think I -- we still have some
work to do on this. Bernie Sanders will join me next. I`m not saying
there are some victories, but we`ve got work to do.

The president slow jams the news. The right wing flips out. Who is
the most outraged? Find out later.

Stay with us. We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Today, the Senate voted to pass a bill designed to help the
United States Postal Service get out of debt and stay functional. Senate
Majority Leader Harry Reid was very pleased with the success of the bill.


SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: I am very, very gratified
about the work that`s been done over the last many months, which will
culminate today in the passing of this postal bill. It`s going to be
something that is going to send to the House a message that we can do big


SCHULTZ: And what do you think the reaction of the House is going to

Let`s not go overboard talking about the success here. It`s a good
start. This bill is just a first step towards solving the financial
problems facing the Postal Service, which, of course, was imposed by a
Republican Congress. We`ve got a long way to go.

It stops the bleeding, but it`s far from a long-term solution. But it
is a start. The legislation offers buyouts or retirement incentives to
100,000 postal workers, which would save up to about $8 billion a year.

Also, the Postal Service would not be allowed to eliminate Saturday
delivery for the next two years. That is a very good thing.

And the bill makes it harder for the Postal Service to close small
town post offices. Another great one. The bill is not all bad, but it`s
not enough.

And remember, a Republican Congress created the postal service`s
financial problems in the first place in the lame duck session of the
Congress in the 2006. The agency made an annual profit as recently as
2006. That year, the lame duck Congress passed the legislation, requiring
the Postal Service to prefund the retirement account for the next 75 years
in a 10-year window.

Who the heck runs their businesses like that? Nobody. They were
trying to kill the unions and the Republicans are doing everything they can
to kill that voting bloc.

I`m joined tonight by Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who worked very hard
on this bill.

Senator, I hope you saved 200,000 jobs. I don`t know how much
cooperation you got from the House, but I want to go right to the money.
In this bill, what about the pre-funding requirement -- what happens to
that money in the Senate bill?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: We made significant progress on
that, Ed. What happens is, as you pointed out, right now, the Postal
Service pays $5.5 billion every single year, which is really quite crazy.
No other entity in America comes anywhere close to having that kind of
burden. What we did is two things. We reduced the $5.5 to $3.5, but we
also said the postal service can take $3.5 billion -- $3 billion, I`m
sorry, out of the fund, the employee retirement fund, to pay for current
retiree benefits, which means they will be spending $5.5 billion less on
retiree health care right now. That is a significant step forward and will
help the postal service.

Furthermore, because the postal service was overpaying into overpaid
into the retirement system, we brought them back another $11 billion, which
will also help them. So we made some progress in those areas.

SCHULTZ: All right.

Congressman Darrell Issa, who is the lead sponsor on the post office
bill over in the house, he called the Senate bill wholly unacceptable and
it`s going to be dead on arrival in the house. I mean, this is going to
launch right into a huge election year issue, because the house isn`t going
to do anything about it, if they follow his line of thinking. Your
thoughts at this point?

SANDERS: I`m not sure that Issa is quite right. What we did in this
bill, we came from a position where the postmaster general wanted to shut
down 3,700 rural post offices, shut down half of the mail processing plants
in this country.

What we said is, sorry, you can`t do that. We protected rural post
offices. We protected many, not all, of the mail processing plants. I
think what Mr. Issa is going to find is that he has a lot of rural
Republicans who are legitimately concerned about preserving their post
offices and their rural communities and I`m not so sure that they agree
with him.

SCHULTZ: This is a winning issue for the Democrats. Again, I go back
to the theme of this show. You stand with workers, you can`t lose. You
stand with workers, you will win. What do you think?

SANDERS: Well, I think that in the middle of a recession, the idea of
downsizing the postal service by 200,000 decent-paying jobs makes no sense
at all. So, again, we did not go as far as I would have liked, but we did
save tens and tens of thousands of jobs. I think the American people
understand that. And I think the pressure is now going to be on the house
to follow what we did and produce something meaningful.

SCHULTZ: And I think, this would be a good platform for the Democrats
to run on, senator. And that is, we hear the Republicans say that if they
get in and get the majority, they`re going to repeal Obama care, is what
they call it.

How about the Democrats coming out and say, you know, if we get the
power back, legislatively, we`re going to turn this post office issue
around, because this is good for small business and it should have never
gone down this road in the first place.

SANDERS: This is absolutely vitally important to small business. Ed,
there are approximately eight million jobs connected to a strong and
effective postal service. So this is important for our economy and I think
you`re quite right. This is a major political issue. Do you stand with
small business, do you stand with the veterans who are working in the
postal service right now? Do you stand with the American economy or are
you into downsizing, downsizing, downsizing and laying off tens of
thousands of workers?

SCHULTZ: Vermont senator Bernie Sanders, always there for the worker.
Great to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

Lots more coming up in the next half hour of "the Ed Show." Stay
right with us.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is Governor Romney a conservative?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that`s what the voters are choosing right

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Day one of the Romney campaign is already off
to a bad start.

mitt Romney is the right guy?

he`s the better -- obviously, I believed I was the better choice.

SCHULTZ: Howard Fineman is here with the latest.

Catholic leaders continue to rip Paul Ryan for his immoral budget.
Jonathan Alter has the latest on the Republican war on the poor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now a bunch of former presidents are like,
huh? I think it`s not so.

SCHULTZ: And Republican hypocrisy is on full display after the
president slow jams the news. FOX and friends are busted again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is a slow jam? You grew up in rap?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what, I could explain it, but it`s easier
if you see it.



SCHULTZ: Mitt Romney spent the last year spewing hard right-wing
rhetoric and now the Republican voters are finally rewarding him with the
presidential nomination, at least, that`s what it looks like.

But some of his former opponents, well, they`re still not convinced.
Last night Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum got what you could say, I
guess, a workout trying to dodge questions about endorsing Romney.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Does that mean you`re ready to endorse
Governor Romney?

working very hard for the last few weeks to be able to unite our party.
That`s really been my focus.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is governor Romney a conservative?

BACHMANN: Well, that`s what the voters are choosing right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has he satisfied you?

BACHMANN: Again, the point is, he is satisfying people across the
country in the primary races.

MORGAN: He`s won the race.

SANTORUM: He`s won the race.

MORGAN: Is he therefore the right guy?

SANTORUM: Yes, absolutely. He`s the person that, that is going to go
up against Barack Obama. It`s pretty clear. And we need to win this race.

MORGAN: But that`s an endorsement, isn`t it?

SANTORUM: Well, if that`s what you want to call it, you can call it
whatever you want.

MORGAN: Karen, you know your husband. Has he just endorsed Mitt



SCHULTZ: Even South Carolina senator Jim DeMint who endorsed Romney
in 2008 has refused to endorse him this year. The bottom line is Mitt
Romney hasn`t convinced conservatives he`s legit.

Florida senator Marco Rubio was supposed to be the guy who could shore
up Romney`s conservative credentials by joining him on the ticket as the
vice president.

Well, Rubio is a great attack dog. He`s gone after the president of
the United States on everything from the economy to teleprompters. But
watch what happened while Rubio was delivering a foreign policy speech


SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Above all else, the 21st century
provides us the opportunity for more freedom. A world where more people
are free to grow their economies, free to pursue their dreams, free to
become prosperous.

I left my last page of the speech. Does anybody have my last page?
Did I leave it with you? I apologize. Above all else, the 12st century
provides us the opportunity for me freedoms.


SCHULTZ: I thought he already read that!

I`m joined tonight by Howard Fineman, NBC news political analyst and
editorial director of "the Huffington Post" media group. I just had to
throw that teleprompter thing in there, Howard. You`ve got to know your
script, I guess.

left behind the last page of my speech tonight, I`m sorry.

SCHULTZ: Well, you`ve got enough material in your first two, I know,
for sure.

All right. Why can`t they just seal the deal? What is it about
Romney that these conservatives just can`t go out on the talking heads and
say, you know what, he`s our guy?

FINEMAN: Well, they know that he came late to the party. And by
their likes, they didn`t come convincingly. They know what his record was.
This is a very interesting situation here, Ed, where the grassroots
conservatives, the genuine died in the wool conservatives, I think, it`s
fair to say that both Rick Santorum and Michele Bachmann are that, don`t
believe Mitt Romney`s conversion.

But the White House does. And they`re going to try to jam it down
Mitt Romney`s throat. So you have this odd situation where Mitt Romney,
who has been on all sides of all issues, is going to get it from both sides
here, as he closes up the nomination and as he begins the general election

SCHULTZ: You know, they all talk about being on the same team, but
this air of reluctancy (ph) certainly doesn`t help Romney`s credibility.
And how is it -- it`s really going to be on him to patch all of this up.
Does it even matter if Michele Bachmann endorses him or Rick Santorum?

FINEMAN: No, I don`t think it really matters what they say, in
particular. But I`ve noted that some Republicans are now trying to defend
Mitt Romney as he heads into the general election by touting the fact that
he`s been on all sides of all issues.


FINEMAN: And I don`t think the White House is going to let him get
away with that. They`re going to make him choose. They`re going to force
him to choose the last thing that he did choose, which was a hard right
attack to try to get to the right of people like Bachmann and Perry and
Santorum on any number of issues in the last six months and the White
House, I know from talking to them, and the president says it himself
publicly, and so do David Axelrod and Jim Messina and the others, they`re
going to try to stick Mitt Romney with the very conservative positions he
went with in the last few months.

SCHULTZ: Well, the president had got after he said, "I don`t think
the Republican nominee is going to suddenly be able to say everything I`ve
said for the last six months. I don`t mean, I`m assuming that he meant it.
When you`re running for president, you are paying to attention what you`re

I mean, are these positions Romney took during the primary going to be
a real problem for him down the road?

FINEMAN: Well, I think there are going to be. And I think every
campaign, every general, every campaign has a rhythm, has a pace. And I
think what the Obama team is planning to do is to go after Mitt Romney very
hard for the conservative positions he took, force all those videos back on
to the air of Mitt Romney saying other things a few months ago and a couple
things before that and so forth, try to get the benefit of both versions of
Mitt Romney, the flip-flopping Mitt Romney and the hard right Mitt Romney.

There`s a conceptual conflict between the two, but the White House
isn`t going to worry about that. They`re going to try to get the benefit
of both. Keep their fingers crossed that the economy will keep improving
somewhat, and then try to finish in the fall on an upbeat note. And they
expect Mitt Romney to go negative from now until the very end of the

SCHULTZ: That`s all he`s got.

And in full disclosure tonight, Howard Fineman never uses a
teleprompter. He knows his material, unlike Marco Rubio, the senator from
Florida. Good to have you with us, Howard.

FINEMAN: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: President Obama slow jams the news. Gretchen Carlson thinks
these types of appearances are beneath the office of the presidency. Did
she always feel this way? Find out next.


SCHULTZ: Up next, FOX`s Gretchen Carlson is outraged about President
Obama`s slow jam with Jimmy Fallon. But how did she feel about President
Bush`s television appearances?

Don`t forget to tweet us using the #edshow. Lots more are coming up.
Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Last night the president went on late-night with Jimmy
Fallon to talk student loans and other things. Apparently it was just too
much for the FOX and friends gang to handle.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jimmy Fallon does this thing on the program where
occasionally he`ll have a big star and the star will slow jam the news.
There`s the president of the slow jam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is a slow jam? You grew up in rap.


SCHULTZ: Let`s allow the president to explain what it is.


year, the interest rates on Stafford student loans, the same loans that
many of you use to help pay for college, are set to double. And that means
some hard-working students will be paying about $1,000 extra just to get
their education.

So I`ve called on Congress to prevent this from happening. What we
said is simple. Now is not the time to make school more expensive for our
young people.


JIMMY FALLON, COMEDIAN: Oh, yes. You should listen to the president.
Or as I like to call him, the preezy of the united steezy.

Things are heating up inside congress` chambers behind all those
closed doors, so the president made a few discreet calls across the aisle.
He said, hey, let`s get together on this one. Without an affordable
Stafford loan, where can a student turn?

The PELL grant is a beautiful thing, but with college getting more
expensive, is it enough by itself to satisfy all your collegiate needs?
Oh, PELL, no. Oh, PELL, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Congress doesn`t act, it`s the students who
play the right and left should join on this like Kim and Kanye.


SCHULTZ: Now, that was just one part of the president`s appearance on
late-night. He also sat down and had a serious discussion about student
loans, the economy, and the direction of the country.

Predictably, the RNC jumped all over it with a two-minute ad
contrasting the president with Mitt Romney. But no one was more outraged
about the president`s appearance than the FOX News`s Gretchen Carlson.


GRETCHEN CARLSON, HOST TV HOST: And right now a bunch of former
presidents are like, huh? That`s what we do now when we`re president of
the United States?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you want the kids --

CARLSON: I don`t care. I think it`s not so.


SCHULTZ: Former Bush press secretary Dana Perino agrees.


DANA PERINO, FORMER BUSH SECRETARY: And President Bush had just a
very different outlook on these comedy shows.


SCHULTZ: She`s right. Bush preferred his own brand of humor, like
joking about lying America into a war.


mass destruction have got to be somewhere. Nope, no weapons over there.


SCHULTZ: Now, in all fairness, Dana Perino was talking about
President Bush going on TV comedy shows.


PERINO: Remember, President Bush didn`t go on until after the
presidency was over. He just didn`t think it was a place where the
president should be.


SCHULTZ: Instead, President Bush thought this was the place where the
president should be.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were y`all spankers. Did you spank him?


BUSH: You know, we were, in your roomers, you know, get to your room.


SCHULTZ: And let`s not forget about Bush`s appearance on the game
show, "deal or no deal."


BUSH: Good evening, Captain Colbus. I`m thrilled to be on "deal or
no deal" with you tonight. Come to think of it, I`m thrilled to be
anywhere with high ratings these days.


SCHULTZ: Now President Bush went on the program to cheer on a
veteran, a nice thing to do, but let`s see if I got this right. When
President Obama talks to young people about student loans, Gretchen Carlson
believes it`s beneath the office of the presidency.


CARLSON: I think it`s very effective for President Obama. I just
personally do not agree with the highest office of the land, the most
important figure in the world, going on these comedy shows. I just think
it lowers the status of the office.


SCHULTZ: But when President Bush jokes about his approval rating on a
game show, I wonder if Gretchen Carlson had an opinion about that.


BUSH: Laura and I are rooting for you tonight and good luck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s very nice.

CARLSON: So that`s amazing. It`s really bringing down the whole idea
of being president to just the human being level. I like it.


SCHULTZ: Yes, I thought so. I thought so.

Next up, catholic leaders are lining up against Paul Ryan`s budget,
like never before. And they are protesting his appearance at Georgetown
University. Jonathan Alter joins me.


SCHULTZ: Ed show survey tonight. I asked, would Mitt Romney
implement Scott Walker`s job-killing policies as president, 96 percent of
you say yes, 4 percent of you say no.

Coming up, Paul Ryan is getting heat from Catholics for his budget
plan that cuts billions from food programs. Jonathan Alter weighs in on
that next with us. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in the big finish tonight --


SEAN HANNITY, FOX TV HOST: I have friends of mine that eat rice and
beans all the time. Beans, protein. Rice, inexpensive. It`s really --
and you can make a big pot of this for a week for relatively negligible
amounts of money for your whole family and feed your family.

Not the -- look, you should have vegetables and fruit in there as
well, but, you know, if you need to survive, you can survive off it. It`s
not ideal. You know, you can get some cheap meat too and throw in there as
well for protein. There are ways to live really, really cheaply.


SCHULTZ: There`s a guy in touch.

Welcome back to "the Ed Show." That was Sean Hannity offering his
answer to the poor and hungry in this country. Rice and beans. Throw in a
little cheap meat too.

Congressman Paul Ryan`s budget isn`t much better. And catholic
leaders are ling up against it. Tomorrow, Ryan is giving a guest lectured
at Georgetown University. Catholics United will stage a protest and 90
Georgetown faculty, including a dozen Jesuit priests have written a letter
to Ryan, to "challenge your continuing misuse of catholic teaching, to
defend a budget plan that decimates food programs for struggling families,
radically weakens protections for the elderly and sick, and gives tax
breaks to the wealthiest few."

Catholic bishops already sent letters of protest to Ryan and other
house Republicans. Here`s why.

The Republicans have proposed taking 280,000 children off the school
lunch program. The house AG committee just passed a bill cutting $33
billion from snap, the food stamp program over the next ten years. $11.5
billion of those cuts comes from reducing access to low-income families.

But in the 2010 tax cut compromise, Republicans cut taxes on multi-
million dollar estates, which will add $11.5 billion to the deficit this

Joining me now is Jonathan alter, MSNBC political analyst and
Bloomberg view columnist. What do you make of all of this? Good to have
you with us tonight, John.

fascinating development. Because you remember just a few weeks ago that
the conference of bishops was attacking President Obama on the
contraception issue and the exemption from Obama care.

Now they`re all over Paul Ryan, and by extension, Mitt Romney, and by
extension, Sean Hannity and, you know, the amen corner in the conservative
camp over being out of step with catholic teaching.

So you have people who, you know, who were with the bishops when they
were on the other side of the issue, and now they don`t want to listen to
the bishops when they`re telling them that the Ryan plan is contrary to the
teachings of their church. So it`s just absolutely fascinating to me.

And when you independently analyze it, these numbers that you
mentioned are right. The Ryan plan would cut more than $800 billion from
Medicaid. That`s health care for the poor. That`s not welfare like, go
get a job, we`ll get you off welfare and get a job, if you`re on your own.

These are people who are hurting. They`re sick. There`s going to be
a lot less money to take care of them. The food stamp program, cut by
close to 20 percent. That will contribute to hunger in the United States.

So this election, Ed, is about big things. It`s not really about dogs
on the top of the car or who, you know, insulted who in the daily news
cycle. It`s about what kind of country we want to live in.

SCHULTZ: These are cuts that we have never seen before. This is a
radical change of where America`s going to go if these folks get the power.

ALTER: It`s a big change. And you have to say that, look, Democrats
and liberals deserve a little blame for having cried Wolf all these years,
when sometimes there really weren`t serious cuts, but for political gain,
Democrats portrayed them as being serious.

Now, the Wolf is at the door. The Republicans are elected and they
get the congress, they will enact the Ryan plan. And that will shred the
social safety net the way they shred the net after an NBA playoff.

SCHULTZ: Sean Hannity said we treated him unfairly. We took his
words out of context, that`s what he says, when he was roughing it in his
early days. He says he didn`t go out to eat. Here`s more.


HANNITY: I used to paycheck the best mea meat loaf, in part because I
liked it and it was cheap to make. We ate cornbread, and buy a lot of, you
know, cakes and cookies. Again, I could have gone to my parents.

So NBC news does a segment on this saying how out of touch I am, and
again, the whole script was written by media matters.



SCHULTZ: No, Sean, I take care of all of that. And that was a damned
good adlib last night. I mean, if it`s true, shouldn`t he be more
sympathetic though those who are struggling right now? Instead, he of
course, he is going for tax cuts for the wealthy and also supporting these
kinds of cuts.

ALTER: This is the point. It`s not about whether he said people
should be eating beans, it`s not about how in touch or how far touch he is.
He`s a multimillionaire talk show host. Of course, he is out of touch on
some level - that`s what it`s all about. It`s about that he backs the Ryan
plan. You have to ask, what does the Ryan plan do? It requires some
analysis by people of what kind of country we`re headed toward if they win.

SCHULTZ: Jonathan Alter, great to have you with us.

That`s "THE ED SHOW". I`m Ed Schultz.


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