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PoliticsNation, Monday, November 19th, 2012

Read the transcript from the Monday show

November 19, 2012

Guests: Heather McGhee; Jackie Kucinich, Catherine Crier, Irin Carmon, Andy Kroll

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Thanks, Chris, and thanks to you
for tuning in.

Tonight`s lead, is not change and you definitely can`t believe in it.
Since the election, many Republicans have insisted they`ve had a wake-up
call. They`re going to mend their ways. They`re going to work as governor
Jindal says on not being the party of stupid. Former governor Barbour says
the party needs a proctology exam. And now in a sign of party unity,
they`re all tripping over themselves to reject Mitt Romney`s gift comments.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re in a big hole. We`re not getting out of it
by comments like that. When you`re in a hole, stop digging. He keeps


SHARPTON: Sounds like he`d be happy if Mr. Romney stayed in that
hole. But Mr. Gingrich one-upped him.


nuts. I mean, first of all, it`s insulting. This would be like Wal-Mart
having a bad week and going the customers have really been unruly.


SHARPTON: Romney`s comments are insulting. That from the man who
coined the phrase "food stamp president." Here`s a little secret. A funny
thing happened on the GOP road to redemption. They`re starting to show
they`re not really interested in change.

Take senator Marco Rubio, a Republican front-runner for 2016. In an
interview, he was asked how old the earth is. Rubio said quote, "I`m not a
scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says. I can tell you
what the bible says. But I think that`s a dispute among theologians.
Whether the earth was created in seven days or seven actual eras, I`m not
sure we`ll ever be able to answer that one. It`s one of the great

Flirting with creationism. How`s that for moderation? Did I mention
he`s a member of the Senate science committee? How about this from the
newly elected North Carolina governor?


GOV. PAT MCCORY (R), NORTH CAROLINA: The Obama machine, the ground
machine, is absolutely incredible. I saw it in `08 when I lost in `08
running for governor. I was blind-sided by it. This time I wasn`t blind-
sided, but I still think they have a much better ground machine.


SHARPTON: Republicans lost because of the Obama machine. It was the
machine that delivered 71 percent of the Latino vote, not policy. And how
about this gem from tea party senator elect Ted Cruz?


SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: The first debate between Romney and Obama,
the one time we actually contested ideas, presented two viewpoints and
directions for the country. And then inevitably there are these mandarins
in politics who give the voice, don`t show any contrast, don`t rock the
boat. So by the third debate, I`m pretty certain Mitt Romney actually
French kissed Barack Obama that night.



SHARPTON: Maybe I saw a different debate. Kissing aside, I think
he`s implying that Romney was too moderate. That`s the real punch line.
These guys want you to believe they change, but that couldn`t be further
from the truth.

Joining me now is Abby Huntsman, host and producer of "Huff Post Live"
and Toure, host of "the Cycle" here on MSNBC.

Thank you both for coming on the show tonight.


SHARPTON: Toure, let me start with you. Is the GOP awakening a
change in name only?

TOURE: I do think it`s mostly a change in name only. We see some
adults in the party, seeing Bobby Jindal and Scott Walker trying to say we
need to change. But then you see people like say Sean Hannity saying like
I`ve evolved, right, and of course that talk media ball drives the thought
of the party, but.

So, it is either evolved on immigration. So, porter amnesty, done.
No, that`s not all you need to do, Sean. You need to do much more than
that. What the liberals and Democrats have done over many decades is show
great respect to black and brown people. It`s not just a quick fix like
that. And then you see, well, let`s just slap Marco Rubio on the front of
the party. Oh, wait. So, we put a brown face on those policies and let
him say self-deportation? Let him say let`s do SB1070? Well, that will
work? No. That`s also not going to work.

And this free stuff idea, which is exactly 47 percent, just said in a
different way, it`s been GOP or conservative ideology for over ten years.
You can look at "the Wall Street Journal" talking about lucky ducky. Ten
years ago, they believing about makers and takers, which, of course,
relates to the southern strategy that we will protect you --

SHARPTON: And that`s over ten years old nap goat back to lee Atwater.

TOURE: Yes, to the `60s, right? So, we will protect you from these
black and brown people who want to take away from you, you know, via
welfare, redistribution.

SHARPTON: Let me ask Abby, you know the party better than Toure.


SHARPTON: Is this a change in name only or are you seeing a real
shift in the party?

HUNTSMAN: Well, let me first say that I think Karl Rove and Romney
need to ride out into the sunset together. I think that they have both
been blackmailed by the party, which is not a surprise. This is
inevitable. We knew it would happen.

Romney is an easy target right now because it`s a ship that sunk and
Romney was the captain of that ship. So, no one wants to be a part of that
right now. You see a lot of these people really speaking as far as they
can from the Romney, the whole message that lost.

But what you have to question is the authenticity. I`ve been
surprised at how quickly some of these folks have come out like Jindal.
But you can`t just say we can`t be the stupid party anymore.

The Republican party needs to get back to results. I mean, you look
throughout history. The Republican party has always been -- not always but
a lot of the time has been ahead of the times. The party we see today has
fallen back. You know, you look all the way back to Lincoln. That was for
individual freedoms. You look back to Roosevelt. That was, you know, all
about securing our national parks. To Nixon, that ended the Vietnam war.
To Reagan, that was in favor of amnesty. So, you have to wonder would
these individuals win today. And I am confident that they would not.

SHARPTON: Win? They wouldn`t even be nominated.


SHARPTON: You mentioned Jindal. Let me show you what Jindal says.


GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: I absolutely reject what he said.
If we want people to like us, we have to like them first. You don`t start
to like people by insulting them, by saying their votes were bought.
That`s why we need to elect Mitt Romney, repeal Obama care, and end this
culture of dependence. Do we go the way of Europe? You know, our founding
fathers were celebrating - they were declaring our independence. I don`t
think they intended us to be this dependent upon --


SHARPTON: So you`ve got him in June and you have him now. Much
different kinds of rhetoric and words. And I go to what you said, that
it`s such a drastic change.

Now, you know, I`m a preacher, and I like people to be moved by a
sermon, but, I mean, this is too immediate for people not to say, wait a

HUNTSMAN: This is a little bit like Romney that we`re seeing. And
the last thing the party needs is another figure like that that`s willing
to jump around based on what they think is going to win. And what they saw
this last time, the platform did not win. So, he`s trying to be anything
but that.

But, you know, I hope that people do see through this because
ultimately that`s not going to be access a successful campaign or message.

SHARPTON: Now Toure, you had the Republican strategist Mike Murphy
offer some advice to the GOP. Look at this.


MIKE MURPHY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Very fashionable now to beat up
Romney. He made an unfortunate comment after the election, but the biggest
problem he had was the Republican primary. That`s what`s driving the
Republican brand right now to a disaster. And we`ve got to get kind of a
party view of America that`s not out of Rush Limbaugh`s dream journal.


SHARPTON: That seemed like a rational analysis.

TOURE: I agree.

SHARPTON: But Rush Limbaugh just unleashed on him today. Listen to


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: What folks did I or any of you
have to do with the Republican primary? All these consultants, do you
realize they get rich no matter who wins or loses? Little-known secret.
They get rich no matter who wins or loses. But the Republican primary,
what was wrong with the Republican -- as far as he`s concerned, there were
too many conservatives saying too many stupid things.


TOURE: I mean, Rush is one of the drivers of the party ideology.

SHARPTON: Doesn`t Rush get paid whether they win or lose, too? As a
footnote here.

TOURE: Hannity, Coulter, these sorts of people. So, as long as they
have them driving the party ideology, they`re going to have problems.
They`re going to drive it in this extremist direction which is where they
are now, far outside of what most of America is thinking.

It`s interesting this new idea that I keep hearing about the primary
was the problem. And part of what they`re saying is we spoke too
articulately and too clearly about what we really believe. We need to have
fewer debates, i.e., don`t tell them what you really think, don`t let John
King and outsiders question us. We`re just going to have Reince Priebus or
somebody from FOX question us so we don`t let people know what we think.

I don`t think Democrats and liberals are having a problem letting
people know this is what we think about choice, this is what we think about
these sorts of things. Tell them whatever we think. The Republicans are,
like well, let`s have four debates, not let them know what we think and
move to the middle and pretend we`re on the middle instead of on the
extreme right.

SHARPTON: Now Abby, one of the things that has really brought to me
that this is not my being overly cynical, but that they`re not really
changing, was something you said. You revealed that your father`s faced a
backlash because of his more centrist views. You told politico quote "he
was supposed to speak at a fund-raiser in Florida and the RNC contacted him
and said because you were speaking out for the need for a third voice
you`re no longer invited to represent us at a fund-raiser. So he`s
actually been disinvited to a lot of events."

HUNTSMAN: I kind of spilled the beans there. Not sure I was supposed
to let that out. But I`m glad that I did because that was actually what
happened. And they looked at my dad as someone that was more harmful to
the party than any good.

And now you look at it, unlike the flip of the switch, and it is like
- actually, we want to go back there now, he`s actually where we were.
But, you know, my dad has always been authentic. And I think the biggest
lesson you should learn from what we`re now seeing with Romney is you have
to stay true to who you are because the party is going to come and go. You
know, as long as you are who you are, then, I think they`ll respect you.
And that`s not what we`re seeing with some of the people out there speaking

TOURE: But that`s how you see how good people, moderate people,
adults in the party are being pushed aside for the extremists.


TOURE: Right.

SHARPTON: Abby Huntsman and Toure, thanks for your time this evening.
And be sure to catch Toure on "the Cycle" weekdays at 3:00 p.m. right here

Coming up, speaker Boehner has a great new idea. A new way to make
compromise in this tax fight. He`s tapping Paul Ryan to take a big new
role. It makes perfect sense.

Also, your John McCain hypocrisy alert is coming. He wants an apology
from Susan Rice. Is he kidding? We`re still waiting on yours.

Plus, here comes their worst night mare. We will tell you what Senate
Republicans are secretly saying behind closed doors about Elizabeth Warren
coming to Washington. They are not exactly planning a welcome party.

And how about this picture all over the internet? We will explain
what it`s all about.

You are watching "Politics Nation" on MSNBC.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a conference call on major donors on Wednesday,
Mitt Romney said President Obama won the re-election because he gave big
gifts to targeted groups such as black people, Hispanics and younger
voters, though some believe Obama won because of the big gift he got from



SHARPTON: Have you joined the "Politics Nation" conversation on
facebook yet? Folks have buzzing over this photo of Olympic gymnast
McKayla Maroney making her famous not impressed face along with President
Obama. She explained how it happened this morning on the "Today" show.


MCKAYLA MARONEY, OLYMPIC GYMNAST: He asked me to do it and we took a
picture together. And he`s like I do this face at least once a day. You
always have to be not impressed with something.


SHARPTON: President Obama says he makes that face once a day.

Jane knows why. She says, they`re looking at Congress.

Ericka says if you`re tired of the GOP, then put on your best "I`m not
impressed face."

And RD wrote, this is why he is the people`s president. He`s one down
to earth guy.

We want to hear what you think, too. Please head over to facebook and
search "Politics Nation" and "like "us to join the conversation that keeps
going long after the show ends.


SHARPTON: The Republicans are finally talking compromise on tax. So,
what`s the big plan to get something done? "The New York Times" reports
that speaker John Boehner has tapped Paul Ryan to help strike a deal to
avoid big tax increases and spending cuts by the end of the year.

Paul Ryan? To strike a deal? The same Paul Ryan who`s been flexible
time and time again? The same guy whose ideas were rejected by the
American people on election night? Who wanted to voucherize Medicare and
cut taxes for the rich? He`s their guy to work out a deal on taxes?

The truth is a lot of Republicans don`t want to deal. They want to
see the error of their ways even when they`re called out on.


CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Why wouldn`t a middle-class voter
look at that and say these guys, the GOP, are all about protecting the

JINDAL: We`re the party that wants growth, pro-growth policies. Let
the Democratic Party be the party of government growing revenues. This
country doesn`t need two liberal or Democratic parties. Yes, we need to
show our policies are appealing and work for the middle class, but we don`t
need to abandon our principles. This country doesn`t need two democratic


SHARPTON: Don`t be fooled. When a Republican says pro growth, what
he really means is trickle-down. It`s never worked. But that doesn`t stop
Republicans from pulling out their old playbook. Here`s what influential
GOP congressman Tom Price said about it.


REP. TOM PRICE (R), GEORGIA: We need to look at increasing revenue
through pro-growth policies as well as --


PRICE: Tax revenue, which means broadening the base, lowering the
rates, closing the loopholes, limiting the deductions, limiting the credits
and making certain that we identify the appropriate spending reductions so
that we have, indeed, a balanced approach.


SHARPTON: A balanced approach, by lowering tax rates and cutting
spending. How is that balanced? It`s exactly the Romney/Ryan agenda that
voters rejected on election night. But Republicans still can`t let it go.

Joining me now is Jackie Kucinich, politics reporter for "USA Today,"
and Heather McGhee, vice president of Demos Policy Center.

Thank you both for joining me.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, reverend.

SHARPTON: Heather, let me start with you. Is Paul Ryan`s role in
these talks a sign that many Republicans don`t want to budge on raising
tacks for the rich?

to be true. It would be very difficult for them to go from an election in
which they were voicing essentially unmitigated supply-side, trickle-down
economics to suddenly two weeks later be able to say, oh, we believe that
growth starts from the bottom up, starts from the middle up. It would be
very difficult for them to do that.

So, yes, you`re going to have a lot of conservatives in the house
wanting to hear Paul Ryan be the standard-bearer for the debt. And the
issue is that we are still facing crisis-level records of unemployment.

And so, if we are going to move through this fiscal obstacle course
and get back focused on jobs, we`re going to have to actually spend more to
put people back to work, which is the best way to reduce the deficit.

SHARPTON: And this is exactly what Ryan as the vice presidential
nominee ran really opposing that kind of policy.

MCGHEE: Exactly.

SHARPTON: But in fact in "the New York Times" article we quoted
today, Ryan`s role in the tax negotiations - let me read you a part it says
when Mr. Ryan returned to Capitol Hill last week he was met with a standing
ovation from his Republican colleagues, a bear hug from Mr. Boehner, and
hope from conservatives that he would hold the line on taxes.

So is this a signal that they`re really talking compromise but they
really don`t want to compromise?

MCGHEE: I think the problem is that the Republicans in the house have
unfortunately gotten way to the right not just of Democrats, not just of
the center or of the American people but even of their own base. If you
look at the Republican exit polls, actually the majority of people who
voted for a member of Congress on the Republican ticket want taxes to be
raised on the rich.

SHARPTON: Now, that brings me to the politics of this, Jackie.
Republicans are concerned or should be about midterm elections. If they
don`t have a policy or ideological switch based on their real feelings, is
it possible to create a climate of compromise because they`ve got to face
their electorate?

to point out also Paul Ryan is not the only person appointed to help out on
this. He appointed Dave Camp, the chairman of ways and means, as well as
Fred Upton who is the chairman of the energy and commerce committee.

So, it`s not just Paul Ryan who was, you know, put in this special
position. There`s these three guys also acting or have advisory roles.
But that aside, I mean, the electorate for midterm elections are very
different and tend to favor Republicans especially because how the
districts are carved up now. The electorate tends to be older. It tends
to have less minorities. So, it doesn`t -- I don`t know that this hinges
on it, but I will say that when you look at polling right now, it does show
that the burden is on Republicans if there is a move over the fiscal cliff.
Right now, Gallup and Pew well, said Republicans will be the ones taking
the blame.

SHARPTON: Well, Nancy Pelosi insists that raising tax rate for the
rich is going to happen. Let me show you this.


possible compromise that would leave rates the same but cap deductions for
high-income earners. Is that something that`s acceptable?


RADDATZ: Not at all. No way.

PELOSI: Well, no. I mean, the president made it very clear in his
campaign that there is not enough -- there are not enough -- what you just
describe is a formula and a blueprint for hampering our future.


SHARPTON: Heather, do you think the Republicans will back down on
this kind of insistence by the president backed up by Pelosi and the

MCGHEE: I think there`s real reason for hope. I think that the
president soundly won the election, that the Democratic Senate got more
progressive with people like Elizabeth Warren with Sherrod Brown beating
back hundreds of millions of dollars in special-interest corporate money
from likes like the chamber.

So I think there is hope for there to have been a strong signal
started frankly last year with occupy, where we had this frame of the one
percent versus the 99 percent. The Republicans put up their one percent
candidate and it lost. So I think there`s a real reason to think the
voters --

SHARPTON: Especially when we caught the 1 percent talking about the
47 percent.

But Jackie, when you look at Gallup and the question is raised who
will seek bipartisan solution, President Obama, 65 percent, Democrats in
congress, 57 percent, GOP only 48 percent, and as you stated, when you
raise the question of should taxes be raised, even Republican, 42 percent
of them say yes. Independents, 59 percent, Democrats 77 percent.

And the question is can they find common ground and find it where it
does not politically damage them. I mean, (INAUDIBLE) today, talked about
how prosperity and fairness can co-exist, but how do you in the partisan
political caucuses sell that?

KUCINICH: I mean, I guess we`re just going to have to wait and see.
The expectations are very high on the president, as you saw in those polls,
to you know, facilitate getting something done.

But, you know, right now there`s a lot of talk of congeniality, but
we`ll see how that goes into policy as we go forward. And that`s the real
question here. Staff -- congressional staff on the democrat and Republican
side are currently working on a framework for this and we`ll have to wait
and see what they come up with after thanksgiving because I think we`ll go
right up to the line.

SHARPTON: Jackie Kucinich, Heather McGhee, thank you both for your
time tonight.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

MCGHEE: Thanks, Reverend.

SHARPTON: John McCain is leading the charge against Susan Rice, but
nobody`s following him. Even Republicans are staying away from this one-
man witch-hunt.

And wait until you hear the GOP`s new plan to prevent another Todd

You are watching "Politics Nation."

As we go to break, Chris Christie`s cameo on "Saturday night live."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything while you`re here you`d like to say to
the people in New Jersey?

thank some people. Thank the Red Cross and first responders. I`d also
like to give a special thanks to my lovely wife, Mary Christie, who is here
tonight, who put up with a husband who has smelled like a wet fleece for
the past three weeks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have been wearing that fleece a lot.

CHRISTIE: Yes. It`s basically fused to my skin at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve seen you wearing two.

CHRISTIE: Oh, Yes. I wear them over the fleece. I`m going to die in
this fleece.



SHARPTON: When the right wing can`t find a scandal, they`ll do the
next best thing -- make one up. We saw with the attacks on Eric Holder
over fast and furious. We saw it with the nonstory of the energy company
Solyndra. And we`re seeing it yet again with Senator John McCain`s attack
on U.N. ambassador Susan Rice.

McCain is accusing Rice of not telling the truth about the attacks on
our consulate in Libya. Of course, Rice`s statements matched up with the
intelligence community`s talking points at that time.

But McCain doesn`t care about that. He`s promising to block her if
she`s nominated to be secretary of state. Problem is his fellow Senate
Republicans are refusing to follow his lead. They`re refusing to make the
same threat against the President`s nominees.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: He needs to nominate who he thinks will best do the
job, and I have no prejudgment of anyone who he would potentially nominate.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I wouldn`t want to prejudge it. I`d have to wait
and see who they appoint.


SHARPTON: And McCain`s buddy Joe Lieberman doesn`t get what the big
deal is, by the way.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: As I look at what we now know the intelligence
community was saying that week and I look at Ambassador Rice`s statements
on television, on the following Sunday morning, I don`t find anything
inconsistent between those two.


SHARPTON: No scandal here. Even McCain`s right-hand man, Senator
Lindsey Graham, has backed away from ultimatums.


DAVID GREGORY, HOST, "MEET THE PRESS": Can Susan Rice be confirmed as
secretary of state if nominated by the president?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I don`t know, you know, I`m deferential to the
President`s picks.


SHARPTON: Looks like McCain`s all by himself on this. So, you`d
think he`d tone down the rhetoric on blocking her potential nomination.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think we`d give all nominees the
benefit of the hearing process, et cetera. Maybe she could start out by
publicly coming back on this show and saying I was wrong. I gave the wrong
information on your show some several weeks ago. That might be a


SHARPTON: Susan Rice. McCain wants Susan Rice to apologize for
saying what the intelligence community said. When will McCain ask
Condoleezza Rice to apologize for her inaccurate claims about Iraq`s WMDS?
What about former President Bush? Or Dick Cheney? I`m not going to hold
my breath. Did McCain think we wouldn`t call him out for this double
standard? Nice try, but we got you.


SHARPTON: We`re back with massive protests erupting in Ireland,
10,000 demonstrators hit the streets in Dublin over the weekend. The
crowds held candles and chanted "Never Again." The protesters were calling
for new abortion guidelines after a 31-year-old woman died after she was
denied an abortion.

Savita Halopanovar (ph) was suffering from complicated miscarriage and
asked doctors to terminate the pregnancy. But they refused because the
fetus had a heartbeat.

She was told this was a Catholic country and three days later she died
of a blood infection. It`s a tragic story that raises a lot of questions
here in the United States. Right now, 46 states allow doctors to deny
women abortion services. Today, we`re learning about Ohio Republicans
reviving a heartbeat bill that would ban all abortions after six weeks. If
passed, it would be the most restrictive ban on abortion in the nation.
This all comes less than two weeks after the country sounded rejected the
GOP`s war on women rights.

So, did they learn anything? The answer is no. Just look at the
rising stars in the party, Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, and Paul Ryan. The
so-called new generation in the GOP. And all of these men want to take
away women`s right to choose. So the real question is, could this Irish
tragedy, could it become an American tragedy? The GOP wants to pretend
they`re on a new path, a new more moderate path. But I`m not buying it and
you shouldn`t either.

Joining me now is Catherine Crier, journalist and former judge and
Irin Carmon, reporter for Thank you both for being here


IRIN CARMON, SALON.COM: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Catherine, let me start with you. They talk a big game but
have they learned anything when it comes to women`s rights? I`m talking
about the GOP.

CRIER: Well, absolutely not. You had a state like Mississippi who
set aside this whole push for fetal personhood, but we still hear about
pending legislation in various states. This heartbeat legislation
essentially is a ban on abortion because at six weeks many women don`t even
know they`re pregnant. So, you`ve taken away the option possibly before
they even know they`re pregnant.


CRIER: And the situation in Ireland, here this woman is in for a
miscarriage. The doctors know she is miscarrying. They know an infection
is very likely. But until the heartbeat ceases they don`t do anything and,
in fact, it`s three days later when they finally go in and operate. Why?
Because there is a law that could result in their own prosecution.

SHARPTON: Which there to the tragedy?

CRIER: Right. Whether than delivering appropriate medical advice and
taking appropriate medical action in her case, the law says you can only
save the life not protect the health, and the doctors are afraid of getting
prosecuted. That`s the kind of circumstance we`re getting into where it`s
well beyond just sort of pro-choice, pro-life position and it`s really we
are endangering the health and welfare and essentially allowing legislation
that is an run around and an effective ban on abortion.

SHARPTON: Irin, you followed this story in Dublin. What does it mean
to America as we`re hearing with the Ohio Republicans are pushing and we`re
hearing some of the rhetoric from the Republicans, what does that Dublin
story say here?

CARMON: The tragedy is that, in fact, what happened with the story
with Savita Halopanovar (ph) actually is already happening in the United
States and other countries. If you have the misfortune to miscarry at a
Catholic hospital, you`re subject to an administrative ethics committee
that tries to say that they have to do everything as long as there is a
fetal heartbeat except induce an abortion.

SHARPTON: That`s now.

CARMON: That`s now.

SHARPTON: In the United States.

CARMON: That Catholic hospital is currently have that directive. And
when you, there have been studies that ask doctors what do you do in that
circumstance if a woman is starting to bleed to death. Most of the time
rather than wait for that administrative committee, they transfer her
somewhere else even if she`s not in a stable condition. So, if you`re
unlucky enough to end up at a Catholic hospital, they`re going to treat you
like a vessel for a dying fetus. In the case of Savita Halopanovar (ph),
she asked for a termination. She knew the fetus wasn`t viable. They
didn`t care. They didn`t care about saving her life and they didn`t care
about her wishes and the wishes of her family. And that`s the natural
direction of GOP policy against abortion.

SHARPTON: But you have this new generation, Catherine, that`s being
projected anyway. For example, Bobby Jindal, governor of Louisiana, almost
a certain candidate in 2016. And he actually reprimanded Todd Akin and
Richard Mourdock about their language. But he has the same policy. Let me
show you what he said.


GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: They also don`t need to be saying
stupid things. We had candidates in Indiana and in Missouri that said
offensive things that not only hurt themselves and lost those two Senate
seats but also hurt the Republican Party.


SHARPTON: But, I mean, are we talking about people saying the same
thing, just say it better? Are we talking about the policies here?

CRIER: Well, it`s definitely the policies. And we`re not talking
about stupid things. We`re talking about dangerous things. And like I
said, this goes beyond do I believe in a woman`s right to choose or do I --
am I completely pro-life, because you are literally allowing women to bleed
to death when the doctors are saying we know the fetus is not viable but we
cannot act whether for their own moral Catholic reasons or because the law
may well prosecute them.

And if women don`t understand this distinction, wherever you want to
come down in second term, third term, is one thing. But we are literally
going to allow women to die on a table when there is no alternative? The
death of the fetus is an inevitability and yet her life is not worth
defending? I find it extraordinary.

SHARPTON: Irin, help me with this. Politico reports the GOP is
planning to prevent more Todd Akins. After Akin and Mourdock, you know,
both imploded. But Jindal says, it`s about better coaching. Let me read
you this quote. "We need to do a good job of recruiting, our candidates
need more training, keep their foots out of their mouth. There`s a reason
why most politicians talk in sanitized sound bites. Once you get out of
that, you`re opening yourself up to get attacked." So, is this just all
about coaching, just learning what to say in front of the cameras?

CARMON: Well, that`s a very honest quote. What I would say is it`s
not about window dressing, it`s about policies that are humane and that
respect women`s autonomy. And yes, what happened this year is that for the
first time after years of trying to trap pro-choice people by focusing on
controversial later abortions, the Republicans lost the messaging war
because they took their anti-choice views down a logical conclusion. Once
everybody found out what that actually means and the reality of women`s
lives, they didn`t like it. They voted no. Ohio went blue. So, again,
they can maybe figure out a better way to package it, but I don`t see
anyone talking about fundamentally changing their draconian views.

SHARPTON: On the messaging, Catherine, in light of all of what`s gone
on in 2012, all of the states, 14 states trap laws like Virginia that are
forcing abortion clinics to close, 17 states abortion bans to replace Roe
versus Wade, ultrasound requirements introduced in 18 states, in all of
this they went on this year, I mean, the messaging seems to me to be that
they really don`t get -- it`s not just how you give the message, it`s what
the message is.

CRIER: It is the substance of the message. Yes, it`s always been
extraordinary to me the sort of cognitive dissidence that, you know, they
are so anti-nanny state and yet the ultimate nanny state is literally
invading the body of women. And so many younger women, sort of didn`t live
through the `70s, the Roe v. Wade eras, or -- and I was much too young to
remember literally the coat hanger horrors.


CRIER: But this is generating a new era of knowledge on the part of
women to understand, as you say, the repercussions when you take these
policies to their logical extremes.

SHARPTON: Irin Carmon and Catherine Crier, thank you both for your
time tonight.

CARMON: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up -- look out, here comes Elizabeth Warren. We`ll
tell you why Republicans in Washington are reportedly going nuts about her
arrival. And President Obama`s historic Burma trip and a remarkable
journey toward democracy.


SHARPTON: Elizabeth Warren is coming to Washington! The big banks
are running scared. And doing anything they can to stop her. That`s next.


SHARPTON: It`s the biggest fight in Washington you might not have
heard about. Republicans` worst nightmares are about to come true. Here
comes Elizabeth Warren, the newly elected senator from Massachusetts, in
Teddy Kennedy`s old seat. She`s the creator of the Consumer Financial
Protection Bureau, the original 99 percent candidate, the woman who battled
Wall Street. And she`s coming to Washington vowing real change. Big
business lobbyists are flat-out scared. Mother Jones Magazine reports on
the big banks versus Elizabeth Warren, is on again. And the fight, heating
up over her possible nomination to the Senate Banking Committee.

Aides to two senators on the Senate Banking Committee say, the
industry has already moved to block Warren from joining that committee,
which is charged with drafting legislation regulating much of the financial
industry. Washington`s lobbying corridor has been going nuts to keep her
off the committee, another Senate aide says, it`s no wonder Republicans are
going nuts. They`ve never had to face a force like her in the Senate.


Look around. Oil companies guzzle down billions in profits. Billionaires
pay lower tax rates than their secretaries. And Wall Street CEOs, the same
ones who wrecked our economy and destroyed millions of jobs, still strut
around Congress, no shame, demanding favors, and acting like we should
thank them. Does anyone here have a problem with that? Well, I do, too.
I do, too.


SHARPTON: Republicans aren`t strutting now. They`re shaking in their
boots. The big question is will Democrats have her back?

Joining me now is Andy Kroll, the reporter from "Mother Jones," who`s
writing that fantastic piece about Senator Warren`s fight against the big
banks. Andy, thanks for being here tonight.

ANDY KROLL, MOTHER JONES: Great to be here.

SHARPTON: What else can you tell us about how scared Republicans are?

KROLL: Elizabeth Warren, as you said, she is the 99 percent
candidate, she wants to crack down on banks that, you know, pedaled
predatory loans or that caused the 2008 financial crisis. She`s argued for
revisiting the Glass-Steagall Act which walled off risky investment banks
from the more traditional big commercial banks that you and I use every
day. She supports the Volcker rule, which would crack down on if not ban
banks trading with their own money. She wants to make banks less risky.
She wants to make banks incapable of toppling the economy like they did
four years ago. And obviously the banks see that as a threat and their
allies in Congress, mostly Republicans, see that as a threat also.

SHARPTON: Now, what can you tell us that you`re actually hearing? I
know in your article you talk about Senator Richard Shelby, who is the
senior republican on that panel. In other words, tell me what you`re
actually hearing from some of the Senate aides and some of the people on
the hill.

KROLL: The chatter that I hear on the hill as I reported in my piece
is that major banks, the groups that lobby for them here in Washington, are
making phone calls to the Senate Banking Committee, urging them to pressure
the leadership and the Democratic Party to do what they can to try to deny
Elizabeth Warren a seat on the very powerful banking committee. And
there`s a reason for this, and it`s not surprising that the banks would do
that, and it`s not surprising that the banking committee would take their
calls. You see, there is a revolving door between the Senate Banking
Committee and the biggest financial players, you know, in the United

The staffers from the banking committee will go to, say, JP Morgan
Chase, the monster bank. Staffers from JP Morgan Chase or other banks will
come onto the banking committee. There is a status quo there that
Elizabeth Warren would upset if she came and she got on the banking
committee. And so, what I`m hearing from folks is nervousness on K Street
about Elizabeth Warren getting a seat on this incredibly influential
committee and nervousness about her actually following through on promises
about Glass-Steagall, the Volcker Rule, ensuring that the Dodd Frank
financial reform law gets enforced and it`s not undermined by lobbyists and
by financial institutions.

SHARPTON: Well, they really tried to not have to face this because if
you look at what the financial industry did to help Scott Brown`s campaign,
the incumbent she beat, $5.5 million came from the financial industry.
Among the top ten donors to Scott Brown`s campaign, fidelity investments,
Goldman Sachs, Liberty Mutual, Pricewaterhouse Coopers, JP Morgan Chase,
and Bane Capital. Interesting. These are the top ten donors to -- or
contributors to her opponent Scott Brown. So they really, really were
digging in their pocket to try to prevent her election.

KROLL: Yes. The banks and insurance companies, all those folks that
you mentioned, they understood what was at stake in the Massachusetts
Senate race. Now, the flip side is that Elizabeth Warren is one of the
most popular progressive candidates among the grassroots, not just in
Massachusetts, not just in the eastern part of the country, but in the
entire country as a whole. If she says she wants to be on the banking
committee and that gets denied by the democratic leadership in the Senate,
they`ve got a political problem on their hands.

You know, that will be a national issue because she commands that kind
of support. She is a national figure. She`s a progressive hero. That`s
not an understatement. So, you know, she has a huge base of support
financially and just in spirit. And, you know, there`s going to be a
problem if she doesn`t get what she wants with this banking committee.

SHARPTON: Andy Kroll, thanks for your time tonight.

KROLL: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Ahead, President Obama`s extraordinary trip for an
extraordinary leader. This is real hope and real change. Next.


SHARPTON: Today, President Obama became the first president to visit
the country of Myanmar. For decades, military dictators ruled the country.
Now it`s emerging from the shadows, embracing reform, and President Obama
is praising the change. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the
President paid tribute to the country`s most famous freedom fighter who,
until recently, was a prisoner in her own home. School children waved
American flags at the Obama motorcade shouting "I love democracy!"

It was an amazing scene in a country where just a few years ago saying
something like that could get you thrown in jail. He also sat down with
the country`s first civilian leader, a symbolic nod to the government`s
initial moves towards reform, and he spoke at the university where 1988
student activists first rose to fight for change.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: The flickers of progress that
we have seen must not be extinguished. They must be strengthened. They
must become a shining north star for all this nation`s people. And your
success in that effort is important to the United States as well as to me.


SHARPTON: And he promised to continue to befriend the government`s
efforts at change.


OBAMA: I said in my inauguration address, we will extend a hand if
you are willing to unclench your fist. And over the last year and a half,
a dramatic transition has begun. As a dictatorship of five decades has
loosened its grip. So, today I`ve come to keep my promise and extend the
hand of friendship.


SHARPTON: A president stands up for democracy after all votes are
cast. This is what the office of the presidency is all about.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" stars right now.


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