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The Ed Show for Friday, February 8th, 2013

Read the transcript to the Friday show

February 8, 2013

Guests: Mike Papantonio, Goldie Taylor, John Nichols, Howard Fineman

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW from New York.

A massive storm is hammering 50 million Americans tonight.

A manhunt is underway for a California cop killer.

Bill O`Reilly is digging himself into a deeper hole.

Bill Clinton rallies house Democrats. He has the plan.

Karl Rove attacks Ashley Judd again.

And Bieber mania is alive and well here at 30 Rock in New York City.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.

Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.

The northeastern portion of the United States is still recovering from
the devastation of Sandy, and tonight, the region is being hit by another
powerful storm. The massive nor`easter could be one of the worst in

Well, you`ve got governors declaring states of emergency in New York,
Connecticut, and Massachusetts, along with Rhode Island and Maine. In
Boston, the city is the epicenter of two storms which could break Boston`s
all-time snowstorm record of 27.6 inches.

Up and down the northeastern coast, between one and three feet of snow
is expected to fall. Forecasters warned of blizzard conditions including
wind gusts of up to 75 miles per hour. This could cause widespread power
outages this evening. The National Guard was activated in states of
Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, of course, to help with emergency

The storm comes -- ironically, almost 35 years to the day after the
blizzard of 1978. The catastrophic snowfall and heavy winds caused more
than a half billion in damage and claimed dozens of lives.

As people rushed to stay ahead of the storm, many travelers found
themselves stranded, 4,740 flights have been canceled through tomorrow.

For more on this, let`s go to NBC News correspondent Rehema Ellis at
LaGuardia Airport in New York.

Rehema, great to have you with us tonight. It`s been a busy day out
there at LaGuardia. What is the latest?

REHEMA ELLIS, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: The latest is here at the New
York City area airports, Ed, we had some 1,700 flights canceled as part of
that 4,700 you mentioned.

And what you see behind me is basically an airport, one of the busiest
airports in the country on a Friday night, it is virtually empty. This is
unheard of. And it is the threat of the storm that has gotten everybody to
move out of here.

And the airlines trying to encourage passengers to do the right thing
and that is change their plans. They waived the cancellation fees, hoping
passengers would do that.

I have to tell you, I think people got the memo, Ed. It was very
light here at the airport as we saw cancellation one after the other, all
day today. The busiest part of the day here for folks at the airport was
very early in the morning.

I think some people were trying to get ahead of the storm and to get
out on those early flights. Right now, virtually shut down. The airport
was nice enough, they got about 60 cots that are set up on another level,
but only about 20 people are occupying those cots.

We talked to one woman earlier today. She is on vacation, traveling
from Nova Scotia. She had gone to Cambodia. And she is here because she
said she spent all her vacation money, doesn`t have any money left to be in
a hotel. So, she is spending the night in the airport.

They`re going to be taking those snowplows and removing equipment all
night once the storm really hits. And trying to clean the planes and
trying to clean the runways, to see if they can get traffic up and moving
again some time on Sunday, if not sooner. It all depends on what the storm
here in our area actually turns out to be -- Ed.

SCHULTZ: All right. Rehema Ellis at LaGuardia airport tonight --
thanks so much for joining us.

The blizzard conditions are expected to cause flooding all along the
coastal areas. Many of these cities and towns are still recovering from
superstorm Sandy. This was one of the worst natural disasters in U.S.
history, and it happened less than four months ago.

Sandy took more than 250 lives and caused more than $74 billion in
damage. Many of the people displaced by Sandy are still without homes.

For more on this, let`s go to MSNBC meteorologist Bill Karins.

Bill, it`s just getting started. How bad is it going to get?

BILL KARINS, MSNBC METEOROLOGIST: Right now, Ed, until the next four
or five hours, this storm is going to go from a novelty to all of the
sudden wow, I really hope I don`t lose power, I hear cracking of tree limbs
in my yard. That`s the type of things that are starting to happen now.
And for the next four hours, will only get worse.

They pinpoint who was at the biggest risk of losing power. Losing
power in the middle of winter, in the middle of a blizzard is horrible. I
mean, it could be a week before the power gets turned on, and it`s freezing
cold. It`s not like in the summer with a hurricane. At least it`s warm

We`re watching the heaviest snows now, all from Rhode Island. This
blue band, this is intense snow. We`ve had reports of thunder and
lightning in Rhode Island and Connecticut and Long Island. It`s literally
a thunderstorm producing snow.

So you can imagine the snowfall rates are about 3 to 4 inches an hour,
literally, between Boston to Providence, all the way down to areas of Long
Island. Over the next four hours, you can expect to get a foot of snow.
Picture that, a foot of snow in four hours. And now the winds are howling.
This is when the trees are starting to crack. This is when the power
outages are beginning. We`re seeing wind gusts now. Boston just went to
52, 56 in Newport.

We show the pictures from eastern Mass. This is where we`re already
getting reports of some power outages. This is Revere Beach in
Massachusetts. Possibility of 60 to 70-mile-per-hour winds in eastern
Mass, including all of Cape Cod. On top of that, going to have about one
or two feet of snow. But no one will be able to measure because it`s going
to be blowing all over the place.

And this almost looks like a hurricane at this point. It`s such an
intense storm. There is the center, going to go right off of Cape Cod.

And as we`ve showed you already, the snow totals -- this is what makes
the storm historic. The potential of two to three feet, especially, Ed,
the band I just showed you setting up from Connecticut through Rhode Island
to Boston. The next four hours are going to be incredible. Stay inside,
look out your window, and cross your fingers you don`t lose power.

SCHULTZ: Bill, what are you anticipating for folks hit by hurricane
sandy just four months ago? How bad are they going to get it?

KARINS: We did catch a little bit of a break with the Jersey Shore on
this one. The high tide cycle that we went through this morning, we had
some minor flooding, really not that bad. We`re going through another one
right now.

But the winds have already backed offshore. They`re not onshore
anymore the Jersey coastline. So that`s going to keep the water levels
down that was the good news for the Jersey Shore.

But the people on Long Island that suffered the power outages for
weeks after Sandy, those are the ones I`m most concerned with because
they`re most likely to lose power in the next couple of hours.

SCHULTZ: Lots of conversation about the 1978 storm. What`s the
comparison here?

KARINS: I mean, that`s kind of the benchmark. You know, over the
last three decades, especially for the Boston to Providence area -- I mean,
this one could go toe to toe with it. We`ll have to wait and see tomorrow
morning when it`s all said and done.

I think we`re more prepared now. Communication is better. Social
media, we have more media.

And, you know, these pictures of the people stranded in the roads -- I
mean, these governors are on top of this. They told everyone off the roads
by noon today to avoid these pictures that you`re seeing right here. And
if it wasn`t for those, you know, all everyone getting out the word, we
would be seeing pictures like that.

So, the timing of this helped too, Ed, mostly an overnight storm that
one hit during the day in the morning.

SCHULTZ: High winds have got to be a concern here. Snow is one
thing. But when you put 50-mile-an-hour winds behind it, you`ve got
visibility issues. But then you also got power line issues. And then
obviously the temperature as far as the icing on the lines can bring those
lines and polls down awful fast.

How big of a concern is that with these conditions?

KARINS: Well, you notice, you probably notice in the New York City
area, Ed, yourself, it was warmer earlier today. We had rain, the sleet
and stuff mixed on top of it. The temperature was around 32.

So the heavy, wet snow fell first. And now, the temperatures are
going to fall and the winds are going to pick up. So the heavy, wet snow
that accumulated earlier isn`t going to blow harmlessly off the trees of
the power lines. It`s sticking to it. It`s probably already frozen to it.
It`s going to increase the power outages with this storm.

Not as bad as Sandy, of course. Probably not as bad as the nor`easter
we had right after Sandy. But as far as blizzards go in the middle of
winter, this one will have significant power outages, likely in the
hundreds of thousand, possibly up to a million if it gets bad enough,
especially near Boston.

SCHULTZ: The model bill is more bad weather expected to follow this

KARINS: We`ve actually get a little bit of a moderation.
Temperatures will be near 40. We`ll do a small amount of melting there is
a potential, potential seven, eight days now for another East Coast storm.
Let`s hope we`re wrong about that.

SCHULTZ: Well, I`ll tell you what, are we going to get any kind of a
wave storm surge here? Are the shorelines going get hit in any type of
intensity at all?

KARINS: Yes. For people that aren`t familiar with the eastern mass
coastline and Cape Cod bay, very susceptible to the storm surges, that`s
the area that is located right in here.

Now, 10:00 a.m. tomorrow morning is the key. That`s when we expect
the high tide cycle. That`s when we expect the highest storm surge. Areas
line Plum Island which is a little tiny island, but homes are very
vulnerable. Sooner or later, we know they`re going to fall into the ocean.
This could be a storm that takes those houses into the ocean, also near
Sandwich. We expect a 4 to 5-foot surge.

Compare that to Sandy. Sandy had a storm surge 10 to 14 feet in some
cases. So, we`re literally half of that. But, Ed, because there are some
vulnerable homes, that the coastline has been -- you know, the storms have
been eating away at the coastline. Some storms are going to fall into the
ocean. But they`re vulnerable homes.

SCHULTZ: Every time I see a storm like this, I think of the movie
"The Perfect Storm."

KARINS: You can`t help not to, right?

SCHULTZ: And we did have a couple of different elements really build
this thing up, didn`t we?

KARINS: Oh, yes. Sandy was a hurricane that turned into just this
super storm. It merged with another storm. This is one of the same
scenarios where we saw a storm literally -- all everyone on the East Coast
got the rain this morning that was piece one.

The second piece was the foot of snow that fell in Michigan last
night. And those two are merging and meeting south of New England. And
that`s your ingredients for the blizzard.

SCHULTZ: All right. Bill Karins, thanks for joining us tonight.

Joining us now from Boston is Weather Channel`s Jim Cantore.

Jim, how bad is it where you are tonight?

JIM CANTORE, WEATHER CHANNEL: Well, it`s pretty bad. Everything was
going along pretty swimmingly in terms of getting people off the roads
today at noon. The governor is doing a great job yesterday and just being
adamant about that, clear direction.

Here is what we`re going to do. Get everybody off at noon. Shut down
the mass transit at 3:30. No wavering on that. That was done today. And
the good news is nobody is out there trapped on the roads.

Now, the bad news is we`re still going to have issues here because the
worst of the storm is just coming in now to southern parts of New England.
And we`ll continue to move north towards the Boston area. We`ve had gusts
to strong tropical storm-force winds, 65 miles per hour or greater on the
outer banks or the eastern part, if you will, of Massachusetts. And we
expect that wind energy is going to be coming in here as we go through the
next 12 hours or so.

To give you a quick idea what we`ve got, kind of using this post, this
is a solid six inches of snow in through here that is being compacted.
It`s a very heavy, very, very heavy, wet snow. It`s easy to make a snowman
out of, easy to make a snowball out of too. You`ve got all this, now,
sitting on the trees, just waiting for the wind.

As the wind comes in tonight, what we expect to be the worst situation
is power loss. We`re going to have a lot of power loss tonight from Long
Island, through Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, possibly even
southern New Hampshire and on into Maine, depending how far west that wind

Right now, 25 million people under the blizzard warnings. And that
means sustained winds for three hours or more of 35 miles per hour. So,
certainly a rough night for some. A night for the dogs for some. But
either way you slice it, a good night to stay inside.

SCHULTZ: It certainly is. We could see millions of people without
power in the coming hours.

Jim Cantore, thanks for your time tonight. We appreciate that.

We have a lot more coming up on tonight`s ED SHOW. Stay with us.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our guys are making great progress at this point,
but the search continues.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): It`s not Rambo, it`s real. The manhunt
continues in California. Up next, new developments from Big Bear Mountain
and from Los Angeles, where the LAPD headquarters remains on lockdown.

Then, Karl Rove loses his cool over Ashley Judd on national

Bill Clinton is back, giving direction to the Democrats.

We`ll talk to the Justin Bieber fans braving a monster storm to get
"Saturday Night Live" tickets.

And the mayor of cable news gets caught lying to the folks again.

BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: Have you heard anything on NBC about the



SCHULTZ: Tonight, we`ll expose Bill O`Reilly`s gross deception about



SCHULTZ: Coming up, Bill O`Reilly is caught in a massive lie, and he
is trying to weasel out of it. I`ve got lots to say about this one, coming

A former police officer and marine is on a latest revenge killing.
The latest on massive manhunt in California is next.

You can listen to my radio show on Sirius XM Radio, Monday through
Friday, noon to 3:00 p.m. Share your thoughts with us tonight on Facebook
and Twitter using #EdShow.

We`re coming right back.


SCHULTZ: Thanks for staying with us tonight.

This story sounds like it`s right out of the movies, but it`s
dangerously real tonight. Hundreds of police officers are braving snowy
conditions in the California mountains to find Christopher Dorner. Dorner
is a 33-year-old ex-police officer and war veteran wanted for killing three
people and wounding two others over the past few days.

Officers say Dorner has declared war on the police force, and they`re
worried he won`t stop killing until he is dead. Dorner has covered a
massive area across southern California over the past 72 hours.

Police say Dorner`s rampage started in Irvine where he shot and killed
Keith Lawrence and Michelle Quan. Quan is the daughter of a former LAPD
captain and may have been seeking revenge by targeting her.

Police picked up Dorner`s trail three days later in San Diego, almost
83 miles south of Irvine. Dorner was spotted trying to steal a boat. So
police launched a door-to-door search and came up empty.

Dorner popped up again 100 miles north in Riverside, where he
allegedly ambushed two police officers. One officer died and the other was
wounded before Dorner vanished again.

Eight hours later and 52 miles northwest, police in Big Bear Lake
discovered a burning truck like Dorner`s. Police found some footprints
which disappeared into the trees. Tonight more than 100 police officers,
FBI agents, and SWAT team members are searching eight square miles in the
mountains of Big Bear Lake, California.

Police had to put chains on their armored personnel carriers. And
look at this, SWAT team members are riding in snow-cats so they can access
200 cabins in remote locations. So far, there is still no sign of Dorner,
and police say he could be anywhere.

Dorner may be carrying armor-piercing bullets, so police are on
heightened alert.

We`re covering this story from several angles tonight. This massive
hunt, including a profile of this dangerous suspect.

First, let`s turn to NBC`s Miguel Almaguer who is live outside LAPD
headquarters, which I understand has been shut down.

Tell us about the new surveillance photos investigators have just
released, Miguel.

MIGUEL ALMAGUER, NBC NEWS: Ed, good evening.

Yes, certainly, you paint a descriptive picture what`s going out all
across this region. There is really a heightened sense of awareness at
LAPD. As you mentioned, the entrances and the exits are heavily guarded.
We`re told that snipers have been in the area, are at times on the
rooftops, protecting this facility.

As you mentioned about an hour ago, law enforcement officials released
some surveillance photos of the suspect. They were taken in late January
as he was working his way in a local hotel. This is before the shootings,
but they are recent, what police believe are the most recent photos of the

He certainly does look very similar to other photos we have seen. So,
no major difference in his description. He is wearing civilian clothes, as
opposed to many of the clothes we have been showing you, which he is
wearing the army fatigues.

So, police are circulating the pictures around, not just to the media,
but also on flyers to the local region, telling folks this is the man you
want to be on the lookout for. As you mentioned, a man who police say is a
former police officer and is now an accused cop killer, who has already
killed three people, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Miguel, are they confident that he is in that Big Bear
Mountain area?

ALMAGUER: We know a short time ago officers up in Big Bear area held
a press conference. They said they are getting close to wrapping up their
search. They say they do not now believe that their suspect is in that
area, but they want to be very thorough before they clear that area.
Officers we`re told will be up there for a few more hours, likely through
nightfall, about 100 tactical officers in that area sweeping all across Big
Bear, which is very close to a popular ski resort. They went door to door,
knocking on some 400 to 600 cabins, making sure their suspect was not hold
up in any of the cabins.

But they believe that area is secure. Again, as a precaution,
officers will remain up there for the next couple hours before coming down
the mountain, Ed.

SCHULTZ: And I understand that police will not release the name of
the Riverside police officer who was killed in fear of retribution beyond
the killing it would be to the family members who will be very concern,
because this guy is hunting, is he not?

ALMAGUER: That`s correct. This 34-year-old Riverside police officer,
a veteran of the force for some 11 years, we know has a young family. We
know he was married, was a family man and father. That`s all we know about

As you mentioned, his superior officer says they don`t want to release
his name because they believe the suspect is known to hunt not just police
officer and law enforcement officials, but also members of their family.
So for that reason, they don`t want to release the officer who was killed,
his name or even the actual area that he patrols for fear of retribution,
because as you know, the suspect is still at large.

SCHULTZ: All right. Miguel Almaguer, great to have you with us
tonight. Thank you for that report.

ALMAGUER: Nice to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Now let`s turn to Clint Van Zandt, former FBI profiler and
MSNBC criminal analyst.

Clint, what are we dealing with here tonight? Is this a well-trained
Rambo-type missionary?

that much credit, Ed, but unfortunately, he deserves it. As you and I
talked about it on your radio show today, this guy appears to be a
narcissistic psychopath.

When you read his writings and his 12-page or so manifesto, I mean, he
starts out addressing it to America, as if we all should be paying any
attention to him, which unfortunately we are doing on national television.
But then he goes on to talk about challenges he`s had since he was a child,
how he was -- how he was oppressed, how other people put him down.

His ultimate goal was to be a police officer. He achieved that, only
to lose it within three years because of allegations that he was -- that he
lied. But he still -- and he still held on toe that rank of naval
lieutenant. And that still met his sense of self-esteem and self-worth.

But the Navy now has let him go as of February 1st, he is no longer in
the Navy. He didn`t make lieutenant commander. So the Navy basically
kicked him out, let him go out of the Navy. He blames the LAPD not only
for firing him, but for perhaps passing that information on to the Navy,
and therefore, the Navy got rid of him, too.

So he has been terminated by the police department. He has been
terminated by the Navy. And now he is out perhaps as the ultimate
terminator, taking human lives.

SCHULTZ: Your thoughts on the probability of catching him in the near

VAN ZANDT: Well, Ed, last night when he -- when we found the truck
had been torched, realize this is a smart, educated guy. He goes down to
San Diego, allegedly to steal a boat, indicates that he wants to go to

Ed, he drops his wallet with his badge in it. I mean, come on, this
guy is smarter than that. He left it so we would find it. He goes up to
Big Bear, drops his car off and sets it on fire, almost putting spotlights
on saying now "I`m up here".

This guy is trying to make us look left, make us look right. Ed, if
he would is a been up in Big Bear Mountain last night, it got to about 15
or 20 degrees. If this guy was carrying guns, ammo, and street clothes and
walking through the mountains, 275 pounds, he would have started sweating,
he would have got hypothermia. Had he stayed outside, he would have died.

If police say he is not in any of the cabins up there, and they know
that for sure, he either had a switch car up there, or somehow he stole or
hijacked a car and left that mountain area.

And whatever he did, Ed, he is probably one of the more dangerous
fugitives that law enforcement has looked for in a long time. He knows
weapons. He knows police and military tactics. He has guns. He has
proven the ability to shoot and kill. And he says he doesn`t care if he
dies. That`s a terrible deadly combination.

SCHULTZ: Clint Van Zandt, thanks for your insight tonight. I
appreciate it so much.

The drone story exposed. The mayor of cable news in a big way. I`ll
tear into that story next.

Big Bill Clinton turns on the charm down in Virginia. This could be a
big key for Hillary in 2016. He`s got the plan.

We`re right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

No, we`re not playing the Liar`s Poker tonight. This government memo
obtained by NBC News has Bill O`Reilly I mean all mixed up. You see, on
Wednesday, Bill O`Reilly claimed that NBC News did not cover the
president`s drone program.

We should point out when O`Reilly says NBC News, he also means this
network, MSNBC.


O`REILLY: Remember the outcry about waterboarding?


O`REILLY: You know, everybody jumping up and down -- NBC News, I
thought they were going to melt down over there. You heard anything on NBC
about the drones?

BECKEL: Not yet.


Actually, you haven`t heard anything over there about this. Neither
have I. Neither has my staff.

So, we haven`t heard anything. But we heard a lot about
waterboarding, but nothing about drone strike.


SCHULTZ: So Bill O`Reilly and his staff must not be following the
news cycle, because on Monday, NBC News obtained this Justice Department
memo. It lays out the legal case for using drones to kill Americans
overseas suspected of terrorism. Well, the night before O`Reilly`s bogus
claim, this was the lead story on "NBC Nightly News."


BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS: On our broadcast tonight, an NBC News
exclusive: the president`s drone war. Tonight, the government document
that lays out the case for killing Americans who are suspected of terrorism


SCHULTZ: Emphasis exclusive there, Bill. You didn`t have it first.
The drone story was also covered here on MSNBC, and originally broken
Monday night on "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW."

See, O`Reilly knew he was wrong. Last night, he came up with some
lame excuse.


O`REILLY: I put forth over at NBC news and other media places, they
were hysterical over water boarding, but muted over President Obama`s drone
attacks, at least until yesterday.


SCHULTZ: Nice try, bill. MSNBC was critical over the use of torture
during the Bush administration. But this network also has a record of
holding the Obama administration accountable. Here is a clip of "THE ED
SHOW" on Tuesday night, the day before O`Reilly`s original claim.


SCHULTZ: I have to say as an American citizen, we are all entitled to
due process under the law. And this document gives the president the
ability to act as judge, injury, and executioner. I`m troubled by it. It
doesn`t meet the moral or Constitutional standard that we expect of any


SCHULTZ: Meanwhile, let`s take a look at the way Fox News covered the
water boarding story that Bill is talking about back in 2009.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Khalid Sheikh Mohamed I understand was water
boarded 183 times. Did anyone care about that?

O`REILLY: I would have done exactly what Bush did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You disappoint me. You know better.

O`REILLY: I would have dunked that guy in the water a thousand times
to save your life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever been water boarded?

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: No, but Ollie North has, and I talked
to him about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you consent to be water boarded so we could
get the truth out of you?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can water board you? Are you busy on Sunday?

HANNITY: I`ll do it for charity.


SCHULTZ: It`s important to note Sean Hannity never had the guts to be
water boarded. As for O`Reilly, bottom line, he was dead wrong on both
claims. O`Reilly`s gut told him, well, he had to say something. But what
he said he did without checking the facts. And he was wrong.

It`s a pattern over at Fox News. And it`s starting to hurt their
credibility. You see, a new PPP poll shows 46 percent of voters do not
trust Fox News. That`s at an all-time high.

The American people know Fox News is not fair and balanced. They are
unreliable and wrong.

Bill Clinton, the secretary of planning, is back with the Democrats.


to stir up storm, it`s important to turn -- not to give up on anybody, to
talk to them.


SCHULTZ: Up next, the big panel on Bill Clinton`s fiery speech to

Bieber fever breaks out during a blizzard, and our cameras are there.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let`s get to work! >


SCHULTZ: And Karl Rove is launching brand-new attacks on Ashley Judd.


KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: This is just the opening story.
This is the opening ad.


SCHULTZ: I`ll ask Howard Fineman why Bush`s brain is running scared.



CLINTON: You have to understand about politics nothing is permanent.
It is an ongoing enterprise.


SCHULTZ: That of course former President Bill Clinton rallying the
troops at the House Democrats` annual retreat in Virginia earlier today.
The president, Clinton, he dispensed a healthy dose of political wisdom,
and some tough love as well.

The former president warned the crowd not to write off the Republican
party, despite the GOP`s current state of affairs. .

As for the Republicans` attempt at rebranding --


CLINTON: It`s easy to sneer at that. This strategy of theirs is not
necessarily guaranteed to fail.


SCHULTZ: Clinton warned the Dems not to rely on demographics alone
and that Americans` growing diversity does not guarantee a Democratic


CLINTON: We should not give up on our ability, particularly when --
these periods when we`re not in the heat of the election, to begin a
conversation with people who are not as extreme as a lot of the candidates
they voted for in the Republican party.


SCHULTZ: Clinton hit the Republicans` hypocrisy on the budget, noting
the party only likes austerity when Democrats are president.


CLINTON: Here is the dilemma. We do have a long-term debt problem,
but that doesn`t mean that austerity now is the right response.


SCHULTZ: The former president also touched on policy. He urged the
lawmakers to tackle immigration reform as soon as possible, and encouraged
them to own Obamacare.


CLINTON: We Democrats own the health reform issue now for good or
ill. We had it. We did it. And there is a lot of good things in that
bill. But it really matters how it`s implemented.


SCHULTZ: Lots to talk about tonight. Let`s turn to John Nichols,
Washington correspondent of "The Nation" magazine. Also with us this
evening, Goldie Taylor of "the Goldie Taylor Project," and Mike Papantonio,
host of "The Ring of Fire" radio show. Great to have all of you with us

John, you first. Here`s Bill Clinton urging the Dems to go on offense
when it comes to policy. Good advice? What do you think?

JOHN NICHOLS, "THE NATION": Exceptionally good advice. The
Republican party is off message right now. They`re struggling with
themselves. They`re actually, under Karl Rove, organizing against one
another. And so it`s a good message. And it`s especially good that he
focused on that issue of austerity, saying the Democratic party should be
the party of growth, not the party of cuts.

SCHULTZ: Goldie, if the Democrats can`t get immigration reform done
before the midterms, how big of a loss will that be?

problem. And it will be a crisis in leadership. You know, not in modern
times have we had a former president be in this kind of position to be able
to counsel his party in the way that Bill Clinton has. I think it is the
right message. I think it is dead-on.

And you`re absolutely right. We need comprehensive immigration reform
before the midterms. If not, Republicans are going to have a leg up going

SCHULTZ: Mike, you know, looking at the way it`s unfolding here early
in the second term, we hear a lot about guns. We hear a lot about
immigration reform. What about the middle class? What is going to be on
the table for the middle class? What do the Democrats have to do?

message goes to what the whole message needs, and that is a little bit of
relief after this last go-around. But I think his message, Ed, is stand
for something. He is trying to tell his Democratic base, quit being this
party that is so willing to run away from real issues. Don`t budge on the
issues. Stand for something. Do something.

The Democrats have had a hard time doing for so long. I think it was
a great message. And the middle class ought to be very glad to hear that,
because he is telling that my people are with you. They`re going to stay
with you. And I hope you have some people that will believe what he had to
say. We have to stand for something.

SCHULTZ: You know, Goldie, the former president`s advice on firearms
was to stay on message and keep going. How much can the Democrats get?

TAYLOR: I think it`s dead-on. I think, at the end of the day, you
know, Democrats have to buck up and get a little bit of bravado about this,
and understand what is really at stake. If we can`t really honestly talk
about banning assault weapons, if we can`t honestly talk about banning, you
know, those high capacity clips, if we can`t honestly talk about closing
the loophole and things like the universal background check, I think that`s
a real problem for Democrats, if they can`t stand on the principles that
they claim to have.

SCHULTZ: How important, John Nichols, is it going to be for this man,
Bill Clinton, to be an ambassador to lead the way for Hillary Clinton? Or
is that even necessary at this point?

NICHOLS: It`s not necessary for him to lead the way for Hillary
Clinton. In fact, when he tried to in 2008, he didn`t do all that good a
job. Bill Clinton`s elder statesman role is the key one here. And he is -
- again, he is most well regarded on economics. And when he went in there
and said we don`t need austerity right now, that I hope is the message that
Democrats take in, because they`re going to go into a lot of big fights
over all sorts of fiscal and debt issues.

And I hope they`ll keep Bill Clinton`s message in mind.

SCHULTZ: Well, another policy, as we just brought up a moment ago,
was the gun control issue. The president didn`t shy away from that. This
is Mr. Clinton urging Democrats not to shy away from the subject, and now
is the time.


CLINTON: I see this whole gun issue as an opportunity not a toxic
land mine. But it depends on how you do it.


SCHULTZ: Mike, is that a political jump right there? Because back in
`94 when they passed the assault weapons ban, some Democrats paid for it at
the polls.

PAPANTONIO: Well, what Bill Clinton knows is that the last cycle, the
NRA spent 13 million dollars on their clients. They had a one percent
success rate. He knows that between 2004 and 2010, they had just over a
one percent success rate. And he knows the American people are with him.

It`s very sound advice. I hope Democrats will listen to him and not
be their traditional Democrat and budge and give in on this very important
issue that could be a winner for them.

SCHULTZ: Well, a bipartisan group of senators are in talks about
background checks. Goldie, is that possible? I mean, I think if they can
get, you know, to close the gun show loophole, and if they can get
extensive background checks, comprehensive background checks, that`s
probably achievable. The assault weapons ban and the magazine, that might
not get there. What do you think?

TAYLOR: You know, I think that we`re in a different day than we were
back when the first assault rifle ban was passed. We had some Democrats in
the south who were on the fence, frankly, because they lived in very
tenuous districts. That`s not true today. And so I think you`re right.
You know, the closing the loophole may be the only thing that is achievable
during this time.

But that`s only true because strong Democrats, moderate Republicans,
which there aren`t very many of anymore, simply won`t stand up like they

SCHULTZ: John, you know, the gun issue in the middle of the country,
I mean, people just don`t like the feeling that hey, the government is
coming and telling me I got to do something. This is a tough issue for
rural Democrats, isn`t it?

NICHOLS: It`s always a tough issue. But it`s not an impossible one.
And remember, Bill Clinton, again, the guy we were talking about, bridged
an awful lot of these gaps back in the `90s. I think Democrats can still
do it. But the key to it is to remember that you have to talk to folks
with respect.

I, frankly, think it was beneficial to President Obama to have a
picture go out of him skeet shooting. And I do think it`s important for
Democrats to say they don`t want to take away guns. They want to do
sensible regulations that most gun owners favor. Always going to that
message I think works.

SCHULTZ: All right. John Nichols, Goldie Taylor, Mike Papantonio,
great to have you with us on the big panel tonight. Thanks so much.

People are facing the snow storm of the century to see this guy? You
can`t make this stuff up. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. Ah, there is always room for
hearty folks. You`re looking at a shot of Rockefeller Center here in New
York City. It`s 32 degrees outside, snowing and winds are gusting at about
22 miles per hour. And there are about 100 people outside waiting for
tickets to see Justin Bieber tomorrow night on "Saturday Night Live."

ED SHOW producers caught up with a few of these devoted fans earlier
tonight, just to see how they`re hanging on.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yay Justin, we love you!





UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long have you guys been waiting out here?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, two to three. .


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We forgot. Our brains froze.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long would you guys wait in a blizzard to see
Justin Bieber?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forever. My whole life, until my 21st birthday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forever until he came out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For a million years. I love him so much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we got in tomorrow, then I would probably

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just thinking about it gets me emotional.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would be hard to hold it together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it like to stand out here for Justin
Bieber tonight?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, it`s just wonderful. I would do anything for
my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were singing, and he brought us donuts and
soup and pizza! Yay.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And hot chocolate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is making my dreams come true.



SCHULTZ: Rain, hail, sleet or snow. "Saturday Night Live" normally
hands out their tickets on Saturday. But because of the storm, fans are
going to be able to get their tickets by 11:00 tonight. So they`re paying
the price and being rewarded for it.

Coming up, wait until you see what Karl Rove is saying about Ashley
Judd now. Keep it right here.


SCHULTZ: And in the Big Finish tonight, earlier this week, Karl
Rove`s super PAC, American Crossroads, launched a preemptive strike on
actress and rumored potential Kentucky Senate candidate Ashley Judd. The
PAC spent $10,000 on an online ad attacking Judd`s political views and
painting her as a Hollywood liberal.

All this despite the fact that Judd`s jump into politics is nothing
but speculation at this point. But that`s not stopping Karl Rove from
going forward with a sustained attack.


O`REILLY: Poor Ashley Judd. Come on, now. Are you calling her --
are you making fun of her?

ROVE: We are making fun of her. We`re making fun of her by using her
comments. We don`t want to have happen in Kentucky what happened in
Minnesota, where Al Franken knew, I need to have a short campaign. I don`t
want people to pay a lot of attention to me. I don`t want them to know a
lot about me except I`m a celebrity and a nice guy.

She doesn`t want a long campaign, because this is just the opening
story. This is the opening ad. She has said a bunch of stuff that the
people of Kentucky, when they hear about it, are not going to like. And
we`re going to lay it out in plenty of time for people to get a handle on


SCHULTZ: And of course, after an embarrassing show in the 2012
election, it looks like Karl Rove has decided to just get out there early.
But whatever the motivation is, it sure says a lot about Mitch McConnell`s
standing in Kentucky.

Joining me tonight, Howard Fineman, NBC News political analyst and
editorial director of the Huffington Post Media Group. Howard, great to
have you with us.

You have been -- I want to point out first about Ashley Judd. You
were kind of out in front of this. You have been saying for a long time
that she was going to be, you know, talked about as a candidate.

HOWARD FINEMAN, "THE HUFFINGTON POST": Well, I can reveal the truth
here tonight, Ed, which is that I began my so-called career at as a
reporter in Kentucky, at the "Courier Journal" in Louisville. So I spent
five years in Kentucky. I consider it my home away from home. And I keep
in touch with politics there.

And a number of months ago, a very prominent political figure in
Kentucky said hey, what do you think about Ashley Judd? And I said you got
to be kidding. And they said no. She is smart. She knows the state. She
loves politics. And Mitch McConnell is weak.

So yeah, I`ve been interested in this all along. I`m still not
certain, by any means, that she is going to run.


FINEMAN: What is fascinating in this context is that Karl Rove is
spending a lot of time on this, trying to get attention to show he is still
relevant right this minute, it seems to me.

SCHULTZ: I think he is using Ashley Judd, because he wants visibility
as well.


SCHULTZ: And he wants to gin up people and get people excited. What
about that?

FINEMAN: Well, sure. And listen, Karl had a tough 2012. He is a
fighter. I went after him in this piece I wrote yesterday. But he`s a
fighter. He is a resilient guy. He is going to do anything he can to stay
on Fox and keep collecting money for his PAC.

SCHULTZ: Well, the title "Karl Rove is Done," that`s quite a
statement. Why do you believe that? Why do you think his time is up?

FINEMAN: Well, what I meant by saying that is that I reviewed his
history, and showed how he went from being sort of a mainstream moderate
Republican when he started out with Richard Nixon in the `70s, as the head
of the College Republicans, which is where Karl started, to being the
architect not only of the Bush campaign of George W. Bush`s campaign, but
really of the Bush Republican party.

There was pretty much a consensus, not total, but pretty solid
consensus among conservatives and mainstream Republicans in the Republican
party that George W. Bush and Karl Rove put together, starting in about
1999 and through George Bush`s presidency. What I meant by Karl Rove being
done is not that he isn`t a shrewd operator, not that American Crossroads
isn`t going to spend a lot of money, not that he is not going to be
involved in a lot of campaigns, but he is not going to be the architect of
a new Republican party anymore, I don`t think.

I think his time has passed for that kind of thing, because the party
is too divided and the Tea Party is too angry.

SCHULTZ: But the core of the Republican party, the majority of the
Republican party is not fringe. I mean, I just think the fringe is giving
them all kinds of problems. And I think Rove is cagey. He is the kind of
guy that doesn`t make the same mistake twice.


SCHULTZ: And the connection to the Bush family.


SCHULTZ: If Jeb Bush were to step out and say I`m going to run, I
think Karl Rove would be one of his first phone calls.

FINEMAN: I`ll grant you that. I think, Ed -- I`m not sure that Jeb
is quite as close to Karl as W. is and was. But you may be right. I`m not
sure that Jeb is going to run. Obviously Marco Rubio is out there. It`s
like in Kentucky Derby terms, Rubio is fast out of the gate. I did see Jeb
Bush the other week in an event. It did strike me that he hasn`t ruled out
the idea of maybe rung.

And I know a lot of big money in Florida and elsewhere around the
country want Jeb to run.


FINEMAN: But I`m not sure he is going to do it. And if he doesn`t do
it, I don`t know who Karl`s horse is going to be in 2016.

SCHULTZ: I think the biggest challenge for Karl Rove is understanding
how to do the infrastructure and the social media and the social work and
the ground troop kind stuff that the Democrats did for Barack Obama. I
mean, I`m not sure that Rove is on the cutting edge of that.

FINEMAN: No, I don`t think -- I agree -- I totally agree with you on
that. And that was what Plouffe and Axelrod and those people did for
Obama. And Obama was state-of-the-art. What the Obama people learned,
they learned ironically from the George W. campaign in 2004, plus Howard
Dean, who really was a pioneer.

I don`t know where that pioneer -- that tactical pioneer is going to
be on the Republican side.

SCHULTZ: Well, that`s the big question. Who is the next leader when
it comes to running big campaigns for the Republicans? I just look -- I
look at Rove -- anybody that can get somebody reelected in the midst of an
unpopular war is still going to be a player down the road somewhere.
That`s kind of how I view Karl Rove.

I don`t think he is done. I mean, I think he still has too many

FINEMAN: I`ll concede. Ed, I will concede, when I wrote the kicker
to that piece where -- and made that statement, you know, if you take that
in isolation, it sounds pretty conclusive and final. I know Karl viewed it
that way. But I take your point.

SCHULTZ: Quickly, Howard, how unpopular is Mitch McConnell in
Kentucky? Could he be in trouble?

FINEMAN: Well, put it this way -- first all, the Republican base
doesn`t really like him, partly because he is from Louisville, partly
because he is an insider now in Washington. And he has never been wildly
popular in the state. And he is not really a kind of down home friendly
kind of guy in the Kentucky mold.

So he has never been wildly popular. He is not hated in the state.
He is just not liked.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Howard Fineman, great to have you on tonight. Thanks
so much.

FINEMAN: Thank you, Ed.

SHOW" starts right now. Melissa Harris Perry filling in for Rachel
tonight. Good evening, Melissa.

MELISSA HARRIS PERRY, MSNBC ANCHOR: Thanks, Ed. I appreciate it.

SCHULTZ: You bet.

HARRIS PERRY: And thanks to you at home for you staying with us for
the next hour.


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