THE ED SHOW with ED SCHULTZ
February 11, 2013
Guests: Tom Harkin, Bob Shrum, Alex Gibney, Rep. Jan Schakowsky, Rep. Elijah Cummings, Rep. Keith Ellison, Clint Van Zandt
ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW from New York.
There is no bigger story in America than the Republican plan to
destroy the economy in just 18 days.
This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Speaker, the president of the United States.
SCHULTZ (voice-over): The president gets set to address the nation
with an economy held hostage. Tonight, Iowa Senator Tom Harkin on the
ticking time bomb of the sequester, and how the president can dismantle it.
Pope Benedict XVI breaks centuries of tradition and shocks the world
with his sudden resignation. Tonight, the director of the acclaimed HBO
documentary "Mea Maxima Culpa" joins me for exclusive reaction.
We`ll have the latest on another unconfirmed sighting in California,
as the largest manhunt in L.A. history continues.
Plus, Dick Cheney isn`t making sense. Roger Ailes is making
accusations of racism.
An unhinged NRA board member, Ted Nugent, is making an appearance in
the chamber for the president`s State of the Union address.
TED NUGENT, MUSICIAN: If Barack Obama becomes the president in
November again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year.
SCHULTZ: We`ll tell you which member of Congress invited him.
SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
You know, every now and then in this business, you get a feeling about
a story -- you know, we need to talk more about this. There`s not enough
conversation about what is going on here. And I want our audience to grab
these numbers tonight because a lot of things can happen, between now and
March 1st that aren`t good for the economy.
I want to start with this number, $85 billion. That`s a lot of money.
Think about that between now and the end of the year, $85 billion.
In just 17 days, here is another number. The U.S. economy will be hit
with $85 billion in across-the-board cuts. How can Americans not be
thinking OK, what does this mean to me?
The stakes are high. They`re really high.
President Obama is going to focus on the economy in his state of the
union address tomorrow night. He needs to. The fragile economic recovery
pretty much hangs in the balance when you throw numbers like this around.
Congress imposed this budget sequester on the country, and now they
have just been unable to deal with it. Here is a taste of what will
happen. Here is where the conversation gets a little dicey. It means
between 600,000 and maybe a little bit more than a million jobs could be
lost, depending on how businesses react to this.
We`ve had 35 months of private sector job growth. That`s a good
number, with no Republican help. And I think that job growth is going to
be in jeopardy, not to mention the impact that these cuts are going to have
on discretionary spending.
Here`s an example. Here is a tornado ripping through Mississippi this
weekend. They might need some federal help. Cuts to disaster relief could
make a situation like this even worse.
Does that bother you? If it hits your backyard, it would.
Some people think these cuts are only coming from the defense side of
things. Not true. Of the $85 billion, the truth is $42 billion are going
to come on the back of defense. That`s a lot of other money that`s out
there that we`ll talk about in a moment.
But what does this defense money mean? This means that there is going
to be an 18 percent reduction in Air Force flight operations. Naval
operations in the Western Pacific would see a cut of about a third. And
the president over years has moved our carrier groups in a real
concentration, naval concentration in the Western Pacific because of China
and because of our commitment to Taiwan and the Philippines.
A carrier group could be pulled from the Persian Gulf. Conservatives
don`t like that. What does it all add up to? It all adds up to a lack of
resources. But at home it`s going to be a loss of jobs.
It also hurts small business. You can pick an industry, whichever one
you want. There is a lot of them out there that are going to feel the
pain. Plastics, electronics, steel, engineering, glass, rubber, paper,
transportation, air travel in this country, it`s all going to be affected.
The list goes on and on.
But Republicans, they simply will not budge. They say the Democrats
need to offer new cuts to avoid the sequester.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Republicans are quite prepared to
negotiate on redistributing the cuts.
UNIDENTIFIED AMLE: You`re saying all cuts. Republicans are accepting
absolutely no revenues?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, look. Absolutely none. The president
accepted no spending cuts back in the fiscal cliff deal 45 days ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Make no mistake, when Republicans say cuts, they really mean
the big three. They want the New Deal -- Medicare, Medicaid, Social
Security. They`ve been after them for years.
But here`s another number I want to throw out to you, $1.6 trillion.
House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi can explain this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), DEMOCRATIC LEADER: The fact is we`ve had
plenty of spending cuts, $1.6 trillion in the Budget Control Act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: So this means that Democrats have already offered more cuts
than Republicans have offered up new revenue.
Now, keep in mind when we talk about tax increases, this most recent
fiscal cliff that we went through, that was an expiration of legislation
that was on the books. That`s what that was. We went back to the old
rates. There is no increase beyond that.
But keep in mind, for every $7 in cuts, there has only been $3 in
revenue. The solution for more money -- well, they`re out there without
And here is what we can do. We can end $4 billion to $5 billion a
year in big oil subsidies. These record profit oil companies, do they need
your tax dollars? I don`t think so.
We can close corporate tax loopholes. A lot of talk about that, but
not a whole lot of action, you know? They kind of get writers cramp when
they start talking about that.
The carried interest loophole can be eliminated.
Also, Congress can block the use of offshore tax havens. There is
legislation that is going to be on the table that`s going to deal with
that. How many takers from the Republicans are going to have?
And then there`s Wall Street traders. You know what they can do?
They can pay a fair transaction tax. It would generate billions of
Now, following the State of the Union address, President Obama will
spend three days pushing his economic message on the road. He has to do
it, because he knows he has to have the public behind him.
The president is doing the right thing by fighting these good fights.
The country cannot afford the unnecessary damage from these cuts. I mean,
you and I have paid for this economic recovery with a big stimulus package.
And all along, the Republicans have said, no, it`s not the right thing
to do. Now this is their time to spoil all of that.
Thirty-plus months of private sector job growth. We`re headed in the
right direction. But this sequester is their very point in time in
economic history during the Obama years where they could deep six a lot of
Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.
Tonight`s question: will Republicans drive our economy into another
recession? Text A for yes, text B for now to 67622. You can always go to
our blog at Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results later on in the
Expert opinion on this tonight. Let`s turn to Iowa Senator Tom
Senator, good to have you with us tonight.
SEN. TOM HARKIN (D), IOWA: Hey. Good to be back with you, Ed.
SCHULTZ: I guess we`re going to let you go home after 30 years. I
don`t like it, but I guess that`s just the way it is. I just -- I
appreciate you so much what you`ve done. You`re a tell-it-like-it-is kind
What needs to happen, Tom, in order to stop these cuts from taking
HARKIN: Well, first of all, Ed, I thought your introduction laid it
out very clearly. What I want to hear from the president tomorrow night is
a pro-growth, pro-jobs rebuild the middle class kind of speech. He needs
to lay it on the line, that we need to invest in our country and rebuilding
jobs and rebuilding the middle class.
Now, you laid out some of this stuff. You know, when you hear the
Republicans talk, Ed, about we got to cut this, we got to cut this, we got
to cut this, it`s almost like they`re saying we`re poor. The United
States, we`re poor, we`re broke.
The fact is, Ed, we are the richest nation in the history of the
world. We are the richest nation today. We have the highest per capita
income of any industrialized country.
So you have to ask the question, if we`re so rich, why are we so
broke? The reason is we have a misallocation of money, of capital. Too
much has gone into fewer and fewer hands and to large corporations.
The Republicans want to keep that going. I mean, you gave one
example, offshoring, for example.
Right now, look at it this way, Ed. Company A builds a new plant
overseas. Guess what? They get a tax deduction for building that plant
overseas. They hire workers over there. They get a tax deduction for
that. All their corporations overseas, tax deductible. But all the
profits they make, no taxes.
SCHULTZ: It`s amazing.
HARKIN: That`s not fair.
SCHULTZ: No, it`s not fair.
HARKIN: That`s not fair.
SCHULTZ: It is not fair. And the president needs to address that, I
agree with you.
HARKIN: He does.
SCHULTZ: We talked about solutions to gather new revenue. One of
those solutions is a transaction tax on high-speed trading on Wall Street.
SCHULTZ: You believe this will work?
HARKIN: I do, Ed. I`ve been pushing it for a long time. And quite
frankly, I don`t know if you saw recently, the European Union just went
that way. And all the major nations in Europe now are going to have a
transaction tax, which is actually three times as large as what we`re
proposing in this country.
SCHULTZ: Yes. Senator, Nancy Pelosi has said over on the House side
that raising the Medicare eligibility age is not a viable solution. Today,
White House press secretary Jay Carney said it`s off the table.
Do you think there is enough political will amongst the Democrats
collectively to protect the big three?
HARKIN: Well, I sure hope so, Ed. You know, this is a contract that
we`ve made with past generations and with future generations. There is no
reason to raise the retirement age whatsoever. There are other ways of
making sure that Social Security and Medicare work, like maybe cutting down
on some of the huge profits that the drug companies are making off some of
the drugs that we get in Medicare.
How about that for an approach?
HARKIN: That could sure help.
SCHULTZ: Senator Tom Harkin, great to have you with us tonight. I
appreciate your time tonight on THE ED SHOW. Keep up the fight, my friend.
SCHULTZ: Now let`s turn to MSNBC political analyst and Georgetown
University professor, Michael Eric Dyson, and Bob Shrum, NYU professor of
public policy and contributor to "The Daily Beast".
Gentlemen, good to have you with us.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you.
SCHULTZ: Bob, you first. What does President Obama need to do
between now and March 1st? I mean, see going on the road right after the
State of the Union address. I mean, is power to the people going to be the
answer to all of this?
BOB SHRUM, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, I think he`s got to go out there.
He`s got to make that case constantly. He`s got say he is fighting for the
middle class, position the Republicans so that they are actually held
responsible for what happens to this economy.
If you look at the polling, people think they`re the problem. So
tomorrow night, he`s got to lay the groundwork. He`s got to keep pushing
these issues. Hopefully, he can get something done, force these people to
Or alternatively, as I wrote last week, he is going to have to
campaign in effect for a third term in 2014, try to defy history, and try
to see if we can either take back the House or get close to taking back the
SCHULTZ: Michael, is the public aware of the consequences of these
cuts, what they would actually bring and how it would gut the middle class?
DYSON: Well, thanks to shows like yours, Ed, people are aware of it.
I mean, the president in his weekend message said, look, we`ve cut about
$2.5 trillion. That`s about half of what, you know, reasonable economists
and politicians on both sides say we need to cut. It`s a balanced mix of
revenue raising through taxes and cutting.
But as you said, the Republicans won`t rest, because in their
crosshairs are Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. They want
entitlement reform to end up being rescinding the Great Society and the New
Deal for the vulnerable middle class.
So, when you look at it, and the cuts are across the board. You`re
talking about mental health care professionals. You`re talking about HIV
care for people. You`re speaking about housing. All of these things will
be significantly cut.
Teachers, law enforcement, all of those people will suffer an enormous
loss of not only revenue, but of jobs. And the country as a result of that
I think Bob Shrum is right. The president has to barnstorm and
shuttle public policy here, get on the road, beat the hustings, and tell
the American people exactly what`s at stake.
SCHULTZ: And folks, what Michael is just talk about right there,
that`s $45 billion between now and the end of the year of cuts, out of this
year`s budget, 2013.
Now, the Republican response to the State of the Union is going to be
divided. Senator Marco Rubio of Florida is giving the official response.
Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky is giving the Tea Party response.
Bob, can -- which one of these do you think is going to be the most
entertaining? I think it`s probably going to be Rand Paul. Are they going
to be -- everybody is too busy fighting one another, aren`t they?
SHRUM: Look, everybody is going to be looking at Rubio, because he
has been promoted very fast as a possible presidential candidate in 2016 --
maybe the magic solution to the Republicans` Hispanic problem. I don`t
think he is.
Rand Paul could say almost anything. So we really ought to watch
But, you know, this is a massive exercise in hypocrisy the Republicans
are going through right now. They claim they`re for a strong defense, and
they want to pull a carrier group out of the Persian Gulf?
SHRUM: They claim that on immigration reform we have to have border
security before we move forward. And this sequester would cut the number
of border agents.
These folks, and you`re right, they don`t care what they`re going to
do as long as they hurt the economy. If they hurt the economy, they think
they hurt the president and the Democrats. I think it`s too transparent,
and the country understands it, understood it in 2012, and they won`t get
away with it this time either.
SCHULTZ: And finally, Professor, what do you want to hear the
president say tomorrow night? What does he have to drive home?
DYSON: He`s got to drive home the fact that he is the defender and
the advocate for the middle class and poor people. Poor people get lost in
the sauce here. They don`t even get to count, because they are so far off
the radar of both parties that nobody pays attention to how if the middle
class is suffering, the poor people are suffering even more.
The president needs to step up, defend the middle class, defend those
who are vulnerable and poorer and articulate it not as special interests,
but as defense of the nation. This is truly the creed of the nation: e
pluribus unum. Out of many, one.
We cannot afford for so many millions of our citizens to do poorly
while those who are rich do well. The president must continue to hold the
rich accountable. The wealthy must be held responsible. And poor people
and middle class people must be protected.
And he is our advocate.
SCHULTZ: All right. Michael Eric Dyson and Bob Shrum, great to have
you with us on THE ED SHOW tonight. Thank you.
Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts with us on Twitter @EdShow and on Facebook.
We always want to know what you think.
Today`s surprise resignation by the pope leaves many questions.
Filmmaker Alex Gibney has a documentary about the pope`s role in the
Catholic sex scandal rocking the Catholic Church. He joins me next.
Stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Coming up, the first annual ED SHOW congressional committee
meets to discuss the Connecticut effect, Eric Cantor`s ignorance on the
DREAM Act, and the Newt being invited to the State of the Union address.
You`ll only see it here.
A new turn in the manhunt in California. Tonight, I`ll tell you why
airports, small and large, in California are on high alert.
You can listen to my radio show on Sirius XM radio channel 127, Monday
through Friday, noon to 3:00 p.m. We`re talking State of the Union
And, of course, you can share your thoughts with us on Facebook and on
Twitter using the #EdShow.
We`re coming right back.
SCHULTZ: Well, today big news. Pope Benedict XVI stunned the church
he has led for almost eight years. Earlier, the pope announced that he
will abdicate his papacy at the end of the month, a move that hasn`t
happened in centuries. The 85-year-old pontiff mentioned no specific
ailment, but noted his advanced age prompted the decision.
Benedict leaves behind a church marred by sexual abuse. His own
legacy tainted by questions surrounding his role in the cover-up of that
A new HBO documentary tells the story of one of the most notorious
sexual abuse cases in the Catholic Church. According to the court and
church documents, Father Lawrence Murphy, a headmaster at a school for the
deaf in Wisconsin, raped and molested as many as 200 deaf boys throughout
the `50s, `60s and `70s. Decades later, one of Murphy`s victims, Terry
Kohut filed a lawsuit against the Vatican naming Pope Benedict, previously
known as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, as a defendant.
As Cardinal Ratzinger, served as the head of the powerful congregation
for the Doctrine of the Faith, an office known in earlier years as the
Inquisition. Church records indicate Ratzinger was aware of father
Murphy`s abuse, yet Murphy remained a priest until his death in 1998. Of
course, Murphy was just the tip of the iceberg. In fact, as the
documentary reports, from 2001 on, every single priest sexual abuse case
came directly to Ratzinger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARRATOR: As a result of Terry`s lawsuit, documents were uncovered
revealing the role of Rome in the worldwide sexual abuse scandal that
caught the attention of "The New York Times."
LAURIE GOODSTEIN, NEW YORK TIMES: These documents seemed to turn the
whole story that we had been writing all these years on its head. Up until
then, what we thought was that American bishops were at fault.
With these documents for, the first time we saw communication between
American bishops and in particular the office run by then Cardinal
Ratzinger in which the American bishops are pleading with officials in the
Vatican repeatedly, saying help us get this priest out of the priesthood.
The victims are asking us to defrock him.
And the response from the Vatican is to have compassion for the priest
and almost no thought at all about the victims. And you see that in these
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Let`s turn to Alex Gibney, director of HBO`s "Mea Maxima
Culpa: Silence in the House of God", which will be airing this Friday,
February 15th at 6:30 p.m. Eastern Time on HBO, and is currently on HBO Go
and HBO on Demand.
Mr. Gibney, good to have you with us tonight.
ALEX GIBNEY, DIRECTOR: Great to be here, Ed.
SCHULTZ: You said earlier today, I give him credit for resigning.
GIBNEY: Because it`s the first time it`s happened in 600 years.
Before the pope would almost -- the pope would have to die. It was like a
monarchy. In that sense, he -- by resigning, he tells us all it`s a
position occupied by a man who can leave that office. And in some
fundamental way I think it gives us all a clue that that office can be held
SCHULTZ: Will this be Benedict`s legacy?
GIBNEY: I think his legacy -- in a way, his legacy is his
resignation. It may be the best legacy he has. He tried to turn the clock
back on doctrine. And I think he never knew how to solve the sex abuse
crisis. He never knew how to take enough responsibility to be proactive
enough in order to deal with the issue.
So I think he`ll be haunted. His papacy will be haunted by the sexual
SCHULTZ: I mean, he has more knowledge than anyone else ever on every
case. Tell us how he brought all of these records in and where they are.
GIBNEY: The fact is he headed the congregation of the doctrine of the
faith, as you noted. And for a long time, only sex crimes relating to the
confessional or the act of penance would come to his office. All these sex
crimes would go to different offices in the Vatican.
As of 2001, he persuaded or Pope John Paul decided that all those
cases would now come to his office. So from 2001 to 2005, he saw every
case. So he is the most knowledgeable person in the world about these
SCHULTZ: So what happened to these cases now?
GIBNEY: It`s a very good question. I think it`s the fundamental
question for the church, because it`s clear that these are crimes. They`re
not sins, they`re crimes. And they`ve also been covered up in a rather
methodical way by the church around the world.
SCHULTZ: Your research took almost two years. And in your research,
are these isolated incidents or is it habitual within the church?
GIBNEY: I think what you see is obviously not every priest is a
pedophile. In fact, they`re a rather small percentage of priests. But
what you do see is patterns that emerge all over the world.
For a long time, the Vatican said oh, this was an American problem.
But now we see this problem cropping up in Australia, in Germany, in
Brussels, in Ireland, where it`s been huge, in Italy.
So what you see in these -- you know, what you see is patterns. And
the patterns are almost always of cover-up. Instead of oh, let`s go to the
authorities and report, they cover up these crimes. And you see that now
with the documents coming out with Cardinal Mahoney in Los Angeles.
SCHULTZ: How does the church move forward?
GIBNEY: The church moves forward by taking responsibility. Somebody
somehow has to step up and say we, the church, are responsible for covering
up the crimes, and furthermore, to show our good faith, we`re going to
disgorge all the documents, not only in archdiocese around the world, but
in the Vatican so we show not only what happened in the past, but we can
protect children in the future.
SCHULTZ: In the conclave, do you think they`ll discuss this as to who
is going to be the next pope and how they`re going to move forward with
GIBNEY: I don`t know. I know so little. Most of us know so little
about what goes on in the curia. I would hope they would discuss it. It
is the central stain, as evens Pope Benedict said on the church.
SCHULTZ: Alex Gibney, great to have you with us.
GIBNEY: Thank you so much, Ed.
SCHULTZ: I appreciate your time. I`m looking forward to it. I`ve
seen the trailer and it`s fascinating stuff and it`s riveting. Thank you.
GIBNEY: Thank you
SCHULTZ: Dick Cheney is taking political cheap shots at Chuck Hagel
seven years after shooting his best friend in the face. You don`t want to
One year after being visited by the Secret Service, Ted Nugent --
well, he`ll be in the House when the president gives the State of the Union
address. Our special congressional panel weighs in. Stick around.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.
Chicago police are announcing tonight that they have arrested two men
who could be connected to the killing of Hadiya Pendleton in Chicago.
There is a news conference that is going to be taking place, and we will be
joining that later on in this broadcast to bring you the very latest.
Meanwhile, Dick Cheney is still whining about President Obama`s
national security policies. This time, Cheney says that we are less safe
because of the president`s recent cabinet nominations.
During a speech on Saturday, Cheney said, quote, "The performance now
of Barack Obama as he staffs up the national security team for the second
term is dismal, frankly. What he has appointed are second-rate people."
Cheney says it`s vital to national security that good folks hold
positions like secretary of state, CIA director, and secretary of defense.
We can all be on board with that.
First off, none of the president`s nominees are second rate. We don`t
need to point out why everyone on the wall is qualified to serve as the
president`s national security team. Meanwhile, let`s look at a few
Bush/Cheney dandies from their cabinets.
There is Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. We can`t forget him,
can we? He botched the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He ignored critical
advice from colleagues and failed to commit the correct number of troops to
get the job done for those wars.
Bush appointed Condoleezza Rice his national security adviser. Well,
Condi lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and played a key role
in starting the war. As a reward, Bush later promoted her to secretary of
Then there is FEMA director -- how could we ever forget Brownie? Of
course, Bush told Brownie he was just doing a heck of a job responding to
Hurricane Katrina. But now Brownie is famous for one of the biggest
government failures of all time.
After the failures in the Bush administration, Cheney has I think a
lot of nerve calling President Obama`s choices second-rate. Chuck Hagel is
a decorated Vietnam veteran with combat experience. Well, Dick Cheney was
granted five deferments during the Vietnam War and never served in the
And finally, it`s interesting that today is the very important
anniversary for Dick Cheney. Seven years ago today, Cheney shot a man in
the face while trying to hunt. It`s the closest Dick Cheney will ever get
to combat experience.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GABBY GIFFORDS, FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN: Take it from me, Congress must
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Gabby Giffords pushes for progress on guns as the NRA
strategy to stall legislation is caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of that is going to be sort of delayed as
the Connecticut effect has to go through the process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Up next, a special members only panel, with Representatives
Elijah Cummings, Jan Schakowsky and Keith Ellison.
The head of Fox News says President Obama is trying to divide
Americans based on race. We`ll show you the comments.
The manhunt continues for California cop killer Christopher Dorner.
Clint Van Zandt on the latest from Los Angeles is ahead.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. The National Rifle Association
is fighting hard against any kind of common-sense gun measures. At a
recent meeting in Wisconsin, a gun lobbyist described the NRA`s cold-
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB WELCH, NRA WI LOBBYIST: We have a strong agenda coming up for
next year, but of course a lot of that is going to be sort of delayed as
the Connecticut effect sort of has to go through the process. After
Connecticut, I had one of the leading Democrats in the legislature, who is
with us, you know, sort of most of the time, not all of the time -- came to
me and said, Bob, I`ve got all these people in my caucus that really want
to ban guns and do all this bad stuff. We have to give them something.
How about we close this gun show loophole? Wouldn`t that be good?
And I said no, we`re not going to do that. And so far nothing has
happened on that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Well, the Connecticut effect will be different from the
Aurora effect or the Virginia Tech effect or the Columbine effect, because
this time 20 defenseless first grade children were killed. It`s had a
major impression on Americans.
The Obama administration is not letting up. Today, Vice President Joe
Biden met with local leaders and law enforcement officials in Philadelphia.
Today former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords released a new ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIFFORDS: Take it from me. Congress must act. Let`s get this done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Let`s turn to our Congressional panel tonight. Let`s turn
to Congressman Elijah Cummings of Maryland joining us. Also with us
tonight, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky of Illinois and Congressman Keith
Ellison of Minnesota.
Great to have all you with us on the program tonight.
SCHULTZ: You bet.
Congressman Cummings, gun violence is something that has touched you
personally, that personal connection. Tell our audience about it and what
it means to you to get something done on this issue.
REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: A year and a half ago, Ed, my
nephew, Christopher Cummings, an honor student, a junior at Old Dominion in
Norfolk, somebody tried to rob him at 5:00 in the morning, burst into his
apartment, and they -- he resisted the robbery, and they killed him.
And you know, Ed, I can`t even begin to tell you how painful this is.
And I can imagine what the folks -- the parents of Sandy Hook felt, because
when I went there a few days later and saw brain tissue and blood, my blood
all over the walls, I got to tell you, it leaves a -- it leaves a hole in
And Ed, I can tell you, if we do not act now after these 20 beautiful
children, our children -- after they died the way they did, and then all of
the murders that are taking places, like where I live in the inner city of
Baltimore -- if we don`t act now, I don`t know when we`re going to act.
CUMMINGS: And we cannot allow this to become our norm. We can`t.
SCHULTZ: Tonight the Chicago Police Department announced charges
against two people in the murder of a 15-year-old honor student, Hadiya
Pendleton, who performed during President Obama`s Inauguration.
Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky, inner city gun violence is a big part of this
issue. How do we curb it?
REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D), ILLINOIS: You know, it is, Ed. But I have
two moms, one who lost a child of 13 years old, and another 19 years old,
who are with me from my suburban community of Evanston, Illinois. And so
this is everywhere. Enough is enough.
I think that we have a package from the White House, supported by
members of Congress, supported by gun owners, and even NRA members, at
least part of it, that we can move forward. And not to do so is a
travesty. And -- and what are we saying to Hadiya and her mother that we
aren`t going to act, not to mention the children -- the parents of the 20
kids at Sandy Hook.
We can`t do this anymore.
SCHULTZ: Congressman Ellison, gun safety is expected to be a part of
President Obama`s speech tomorrow night. How important is it for the
president, in your opinion, to stay on top of this? And how much of a
strong point does he have to make? And would it have an impact? Your
REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: I think the president has to lead
on this issue. He has been doing that. And I expect he is going to make a
strong statement. I think he is going to change the boundaries of what
people think is possible by his consistent advocacy.
I want to say that Vice President Biden is on the case. And I also
want you to know, Ed, that there are a number of us, including Jim
Langevin, who are going to invite victims of gun violence to the State of
the Union to be with us. I myself am going to have a young man named Sammy
Rahiman (ph). He is 17 years old. His father was murdered in a shooting
incident that took place at his father`s business, along with four other
Sammy got the news when he was on a trip to visit a college. He heard
a news report that there was a shooting in the neighborhood. He sent an e-
mail to his dad to say be careful, but that e-mail was never returned
because his father was the victim. He`ll be with me tomorrow night as a
witness to what we must do, which is to take action on gun violence
SCHULTZ: Well, there is a lot of theatrics playing out here.
Tomorrow night`s State of the Union Address, Republican Congressman Steve
Stockman will have Ted Nugent as his guest. Here is what Nugent said
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED NUGENT, SINGER: We know that the president will have the State of
the Union stacked and jammed with props, children, and victims of violent
crime. And my friends wanted me to attend to counter that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: And of course this is a man who was investigated by the
Secret Service after he said if President Obama is re-elected, that he will
either be dead or in jail by this time next year. What about that,
SCHAKOWSKY: How dare he call these parents -- one of the moms is
going to be my guest tomorrow night. How dare he call them props. Carolyn
Murray (ph), who lost her 19-year-old son is not a prop. She is a grieving
mother who has turned her pain into power --
SCHAKOWSKY: -- in fighting against gun violence.
SCHULTZ: Congressman Cummings, your response to that.
CUMMINGS: You know, Ed, I remember when my nephew was murdered. That
very night, the bloggers were all over the place saying oh, Cummings is
going to, quote, politicize, unquote, this matter and ask for gun control.
It`s not politicizing anything. It`s about saying to our society, we`re
better than this.
We -- and I believe deeply, Ed, that we have a duty as adults to
protect our children and protect our folks. And the reasonable package of
bills that the Democrats in the Congress have now submitted I think is a
reasonable package, and a package that reasonable thinking people should
ELLISON: You know, I think that what we are talking about is what
most Americans want. Most Americans think there should be background
checks, including gun owners. Most Americans think that high capacity
clips don`t have a place. Most people think that weapons of war don`t
belong on our streets.
We do believe the Center for Disease Control should study gun
violence. These are all common sense things. Shame on Ted Nugent. I`m so
sad he has said those things. But I want the people who have been victims
of gun violence to know that we do care deeply about them, and we do
believe that they need to be represented in that forum tomorrow night.
SCHULTZ: There is a lot of conversation that you`re not going to be
able to get the assault weapons banned, that universal background checks
and closing the gun show loophole -- Congresswoman Schakowsky, would you be
all right with that?
SCHAKOWSKY: You know, Ed, we`re making progress already with 23
executive orders of the president.
SCHAKOWSKY: If we get background checks, if we get rid of these
clips, that is definitely a victory. We`re not going to start pushing --
stop pushing to get rid of these assault weapons.
SCHAKOWSKY: But, you know, we`re going win major victories that are
going to represent real progress.
SCHULTZ: Congressman Cummings?
CUMMINGS: Yeah, I think we`re going to have some progress. I don`t
know whether we`ll get everything. I hope so. But as you know, Ed, I have
a gun trafficking bill.
CUMMINGS: Along with Congresswoman Maloney. We`ve already gotten
five co-sponsors. And this is the kind of legislation --
ELLISON: Put me on it.
CUMMINGS: -- that police officers are begging for. They want it
desperately. So I feel pretty confident about that.
SCHULTZ: Congressman Elijah Cummings, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky
and Congressman Keith Ellison, I really appreciate all of you being here.
SCHAKOWSKY: Thank you.
CUMMINGS: Thank you, Ed, for your advocacy. Thank you very much.
SCHULTZ: Thank you.
Roger Ailes has made a living demonizing the president. But his
latest comments set a new low. That`s next.
SCHULTZ: Well, it`s tradition that the president of the United States
includes a moment in his annual speech where he says "the state of the
union is" -- we want you to finish that sentence.
Take a look at my response. Influx, "let`s get to work."
Now it`s your turn. Ken Kublitz says that "the State of the Union is
shaky, but in good hands."
Susan Stein says "it`s being held hostage by the obstructionist neo-
Con republicans and the Fascist Tea Party."
And Marlene Strobble (ph) says "the State of the Union is the best
government money can buy."
Now it`s your turn right now. Write your answer. Take a photo of it
and submit it to us at Facebook.com/MSNBC, or share on Twitter and
Instagram using the hash tag SOTUIS. Check out all of the responses from
our MSNBC family and across the nation. And vote for your favorites.
Coming up, a one million bounty is on the head of a California cop
killer. The latest on the revenge killing spree is ahead. Stay with us.
We`re right back.
SCHULTZ: And we are back. Roger Ailes I think needs to take a good
look in the mirror, because in an interview with "The New Republic," the
Fox News CEO accuses President Obama of what? Stirring up hate? Now I
know where Hannity gets his material.
His quote is this: "the president likes to divide people into groups.
He is too busy getting the middle class to hate rich people, blacks to hate
whites. He is busy trying to get everybody to hate each other."
Yes, Roger Ailes said all of that. The same Roger Ailes who perfected
the dog whistle politics of the southern strategy working for Richard
Nixon. The same Roger Ailes who built a channel dependent on convincing
viewers it`s OK to hate the opposition, a channel that relentlessly
promoted the myth that President Obama, our first African-American
president, is a foreign-born socialist, a channel that employed the likes
of Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.
Where are they now?
A channel that says we`re on the brink of a civil war between makers
and takers, a channel that claims that liberals have declared a war on
religion and marriage and Christmas, a channel that vilifies union members,
undocumented workers in this country, and women seeking contraception
The mastermind behind Fox News thinks President Obama has a divisive
agenda? It`s no wonder Fox News has hit a record low in ratings and
Tonight in our survey, I asked you will Republicans drive our economy
into another recession? I was going to say into the toilet. Ninety four
percent of you say yes; six percent of you say no.
Coming up, the week-long manhunt for a trained killer is still under
way. The latest on the California cop killer is next.
SCHULTZ: And in the Big Finish tonight, police departments across
Southern California are now asking the public to help with the biggest
manhunt in recent history. Hundreds of officers are searching for
Christopher Dorner, who is accused of killing three people and wounding two
others over the past several weeks.
Officers say Dorner has declared war on the police force. And they`re
worried that he won`t stop killing until he is dead. Dorner is so
dangerous that the LAPD responds with SWAT teams when someone calls in a
tip about him.
Last night tactical units surrounded a home improvement store in
Northridge and cleared out all of the shoppers. It turned out to be a
false alarm. Now the LAPD is posting a one million dollar reward for
information leading to the arrest and conviction of Christopher Dorner.
That`s the biggest reward in LAPD history. The reward and the media
attention have helped generate more than 600 tips, but there are no solid
leads. So tonight dozens of officers and at least 50 families with ties to
the LAPD are all under guard.
Friday, we told you officers and SWAT team members were fighting snowy
conditions to search eight square miles around Big Bear Lake in California.
So far they have come up empty handed. There are a few other reasons
police are worried Dorner will strike again. Dorner is an ex-cop who has
published a manifesto listing the people he wants to target.
Dorner is also ex-military and became a lieutenant in the Navy
Reserve. We learn today that Dorner got counter terrorism training in the
navy, and he might have gotten flight training as well. Today the TSA
issued a warning for small -- small pilots, small aircraft and small
airports to be on the lookout.
Police say Chris Dorner could be heavily armed with at least one
assault weapon. Today investigators across Southern California asked the
public to join in the search.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL ZELLERBACH, RIVERSIDE CO. DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We need all of the
public`s eyes and ears in assisting law enforcement in apprehending this
very dangerous individual.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: We are joined tonight by Clint Van Zandt, MSNBC criminal
analyst and former FBI profiler.
Mr. Van Zandt, great to have you with us tonight. Thank you. Are you
surprised that Dorner is still on the loose?
CLINT VAN ZANDT, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Well, I am, ed. And yet when
you listen to how you just described him, which is really true, this is an
ex-cop. This is an ex-Navy lieutenant with terrorism training. And as
important, this is someone who has accumulated these slights against him
psychologically for a number of years.
And I think, Ed, had quite a bit of time to prepare for this, to plan
it out. We know he went down to San Diego. We know, as you say, he went
up to Big Bear Lake. And now where is he? Is he somewhere in between?
Could he have made to it Mexico at the time? You`ve got this million
reward. Hundreds of tips are coming in.
But so far, he is not there. And it looks like the best thing the
LAPD have going for them right now is the chief of police indicating that
he will personally review the case that originally caused Dorner to be
fired from the police department.
SCHULTZ: And the former L.A. police chief, William Bratton, told "The
Today Show" that he has looked at three different criminal profiles and --
about Dorner, and calls him an injustice collector. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BRATTON, FORMER LA POLICE CHIEF: He is an injustice
collector. That`s a term that they use. He collects injustices and never
lets them go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: What is your reaction to that, Mr. Van Zandt?
VAN ZANDT: Well, I think it`s true. I think this is someone who
since he was a child, believes that he has been put down, that he hasn`t
had a fair shake all the time. And all of this, Ed, has accumulated. This
has been, you know, a few pounds, a few pounds, a few pounds. And now we
have hundreds of pounds of challenge that this man is carrying right now.
And realize what is important, too, is that even though he blames the
LAPD for him being fired, the lawyer, the former LAPD captain turned lawyer
who defended him when he was terminated from the police department, the
same lawyer who said that Dorner may have been scapegoated by the LAPD, it
was this captain`s daughter who was the first victim who was gunned down,
who was murdered.
So it looks like Dorner doesn`t know who his friends are and who his
enemies are. And right now, everybody is trying to bring this man in
before he shoots again.
SCHULTZ: Clint, what is it going to take to catch this guy? A stroke
VAN ZANDT: Well, it`s going to take the public, Ed. A million
dollars on your head brings a lot of attention. And right now I think what
we`re seeing is Dorner keeping good to his word, perhaps, if he is still
alive, Ed. If he is still alive, he is sitting back, and he is waiting to
see the results of this review.
Realize this guy is a sociopath. He is megalomaniac. The only thing
he cares about is himself. But he cares about his name and reputation.
And he wants to see if he can make the LAPD say he shouldn`t have been
fired. So I think right now, if he is smart and he is still alive, the
last thing he wants to do is hurt anybody else. Otherwise that will prove
that he`s the killer that many in the law enforcement make him out to be
right now anyway.
SCHULTZ: OK. Clint Van Zandt, appreciate you joining us tonight.
This a wild story, to say the least. And it has got all the ingredients of
a movie, no doubt. But seriously, very, very serious. And now the LAPD
asking the public to be on the lookout, a million dollar reward. It`s
That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts
right now. Good evening, Rachel.
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THE ED SHOW with ED SCHULTZ