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PoliticsNation, Tuesday, April 16th, 2013

April 16, 2013

Guests: Kevin Cullen; Danielle Deines; Stamatis Astra; Clint Van Zandt


And we start with the latest of the terror attacks at the Boston

Three people are confirmed dead. At least 176 more are injured. Some
of them critically with missing arms or legs. Two of the dead have been
identified. The first, 8-year-old Martin Richard. Martin was in the third
grade. His mother and sister were seriously wounded. This photo of him is
breaking hearts across the country. Martin holding up a sign that says "no
more hurting people, peace."

The other identified victim is 29-year-old Krystle Campbell. Her
father says the family is shocked and devastated. Officials think the
bombs consisted of explosives and shrapnel packed in pressure cookers.
Hidden inside black duffel bags.

President Obama will travel to Boston on Thursday to speak at an
interfaith service. Today, he vowed to find those responsible and labeled
the bombings an act of terrorism.


cowardly act. And given what we now know about what took place, the FBI is
investigating it as an act of terrorism. Any time bombs are used to target
innocent civilians, it is an act of terror. It will take time to follow
every lead and determine what happened. But we will find out. We will
find whoever harmed our citizens and we will bring them to justice.


SHARPTON: Today, we also are getting new video of the actual
explosions including the only tape we have seen taken by a woman actually
running in the race.


SHARPTON: And new radio calls from first responders reveal the
chaotic moments just after the explosions.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: We have reports of two explosions here.
We have at least a dozen people with serious injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: At least two explosions. A dozen
serious injuries, a multiple injury incident.


SHARPTON: Authorities are now asking anyone with potential photo or
video evidence to come forward and help the investigation.

Joining me now live from Boston is Michel Isikoff, national
investigative correspondent for NBC News. And with me here in the studio
is NBC News terrorism expert Michael Leiter, former director of the
national counterterrorism center.

Thank you both for joining me.

Michael Isikoff, let me go to you first. "The Boston Globe" is
reporting that officials have recovered a second bolt from the scene of the
explosions. What is your take on that?

the FBI would not confirm that at the briefing we just had. They did
confirm there are two devices, both in black nylon bags. Search --
pressure cooker bombs. One point that I thought was quite interesting that
FBI special agent in charge made, Richard Deslauriers, is that these are
heavy bombs.

So, we had two heavy bombs in black nylon bags at two locations about
75 to 100 yards away from each other that were set off within 12 seconds.
It remains an open question whether that could have been done by one
perpetrator or more than one to have placed those two bags within a short
period of time in this open, crowded area and not be noticed. It does
raise questions whether one person could have pulled that off.

I should tell you that a couple of other pieces of information I`ve
learned tonight that federal law enforcement source confirms that
prosecutors are preparing search warrants. Most likely to be executed
tomorrow. A limited number in the Boston area in their continuous search
for evidence in this case. That suggests that there are at least some
leads, but Mr. Deloria made clear in the press briefing, this investigation
is in its infancy, and the number of suspect -- the search for suspects and
motives remains wide open.

SHARPTON: Leiter, what does this mean? I mean, is there anything
here that`s a breakthrough? The public clearly wants to see what happened
and why, but at the same time, you don`t want to rush and bring in
something or someone that you can`t really get the evidence to back up. So
is there any breakthrough at all in any of this?

relatively early, but I think there are two things that are really
important. The type of bomb doesn`t tell us all that much. Lots of
different groups have used this bomb. You can find out how to make a
pressure cooker bomb on the internet.

SHARPTON: Wait a minute. You can find out how to make this bomb on
the internet. So we don`t -- we can`t say this type of bomb tells us
something about its group "a" that uses this or terrorist group "b" or that
it`s foreign or domestic. None of that comes from our knowing the type of

LEITER: That`s right. Both domestic and international groups have
used this kind of bomb. Most recently, it was the type of bomb used by the
Pakistani Taliban in Times Square that didn`t work. But domestic groups
have used it in the past.

One piece which I think is important that came out today is that the
FBI now knows how these bombs were delivered to the scene, at least in
their final stages. That they were in black bags. And you have heard all
the calls for the video and pictures from the public. This is critical
because the FBI now knows a little bit more what to look for. They know
what`s suspicious which is large or at least black duffel bags, carrying
40-pound weights, that is rather distinctive. And they can look for that
in these videos.

SHARPTON: When they`re looking through these videotapes and pictures,
they know now what they`re looking for. People carrying these black duffel
bags, rather than just looking at random for something suspicious.

LEITER: That`s right. Otherwise just trying to figure out who`s
suspicious, not so easy. Knowing people are carrying black duffel bags,
that`s important.

SHARPTON: Let me show you this, you and Michael Isikoff. FBI moments
ago talking about what was recovered from the scene. Let me show you this
press conference.


partially recovered are pieces of black nylon which could be from a
backpack and what appeared to be fragments of BBs and nails, possibly
contained in a pressure cooker device.

This morning, it was determined that both of the explosives were
placed in a dark colored nylon bag or backpack. The bag would have been
heavy because of the components believed to be in it.


Michael Isikoff, that`s the FBI agent in charge of the investigation.
He`s describing the bags as we have just heard Leiter here talk about,
Michael Leiter, and the significance of that.

Does that suggest to you, one, it helps them identify as Michael has
said what they can look for on the photo, but that it may lead toward what
you`re saying, that some are saying this may have had to be more than one

ISIKOFF: Well, we don`t know that. BUT, Just picking up on Mike`s
point there, the significance of knowing you are looking for somebody
carrying a black nylon bag, that does help explain these repeated requests
to the public for cell phone videos or pictures that might have been taken
at the scene. Not only that, they have gone so far, ICE agents,
Immigrations Custom Enforcement agents, are have been at Logan airport
today questioning travelers who are leaving the city, asking them if they
had any such cell phone videos or pictures, which is an unusual tactic and
length to go to get those photographic images.

In a lot of ways, they`re looking for the Zapruder film of this Boston
marathon bombing, Zapruder being the individual who took the film of the
John F. Kennedy assassination.


Now, Leiter, and I`m calling you Leiter because both of you are named

The fact that we are hearing now that the FBI and others are asking
for pictures and videos, I understand about the nylon bags. But the fact
that we know that this bomb, how it was made, I`m a New Yorker. Is that
not the same way the bomb in the Times Square attempted bombing was made?
Wasn`t it the same type of bomb? And does that tell us anything about the
same type of people may be behind it or it doesn`t mean anything?

LEITER: I don`t think it means that much. It was the same kind of
bomb as in Times Square. And that attack was sponsored by the Pakistani


LEITER: Two reasons that`s not that important. First of all, the
Pakistani Taliban has already said they didn`t do this. And if they have,
I think they would have taken credit for it. Second, that was an exception
for how groups like the Pakistani Taliban and al-Qaeda normally build

SHARPTON: Oh, it was an exception?

LEITER: That`s not what they have used in the past.


LEITER: So I don`t think that`s a tactic they would be likely to use.
One last point that is important. We have to note is the circuit board.
That gives the FBI a sense of how the device might have been detonated and
controlled. And also circuit boards can potentially be traced. If it`s
from a cell phone and the like, there might be a history about that cell
phone. So that will be another critical investigative piece for the FBI
and the Boston police.

SHARPTON: Michael Isikoff, is it troubling or should we be troubled
that there seems to be no leads or no theories that are being put out
publicly yet a day later? Or are we being overly anxious? I`m talking
about the public.

ISIKOFF: Sure. And, look, there is a contradiction here. Mr.
Deslauriers said yesterday there`s no imminent physical threat to the
public. But the fact is that there is a bomber, a terrorist bomber or
bombers who are at loose in the community. And who they don`t know who
they are at this point. So I think that is on its face a pretty troubling
situation. And, you know, it does raise questions about just how calm and
reassuring federal officials can be at this point.

SHARPTON: Now, Leiter, the doctor at Boston hospital says that
shrapnel is being removed from bomb victims. Look at this.


objects from at least three patients that clearly were designed to be
projectiles and were built into the explosive device. These objects are
ball bearing type or small shot type. We have also removed over a dozen
small carpenter type nails from one patient.


SHARPTON: Small type, carpenter type nails. Does that tell us
anything about the people or person that may have done this and what was

LEITER: It doesn`t tell us anything about the people. What it does
tell us is what they are trying to do. And they`re not just trying to
scare, they are trying to maim and kill.

SHARPTON: So this was intended to maim and kill. This was not just
something to scare people at a big event.

LEITER: I think there is no argument to the contrary. Putting things
like that, you are trying to get projectiles that are deadly to the people
around them.

SHARPTON: All right. Michael Leiter and Michael Isikoff, thank you
both for your time tonight.

Coming up, ordinary people reacting in an extraordinary way. Stories
of heroism and kindness in a moment of crisis.

And we are learning more about the 8-year-old boy, Martin Richard, who
died in yesterday`s blast. And how his community is coming together for
his family.


SHARPTON: We are learning more about the victims tonight. 8-year-old
Martin Richard, he was in the third grade. His mother and sister were
seriously wounded.

The other identified victim is 29-year-old Krystle Campbell. We will
have more on them, next.

The third deceased victim is a grad student at Boston University.
They have not released the same.

More on all of that after this.


SHARPTON: Today, we are learning the tragic, amazing personal stories
of the survivors. Americans who went out to watch a marathon on a sunny
Boston day and wound up having their lives changed forever in a matter of

Like these two brothers. There to watch a friend cross the finish
line. Both brothers lost part of their legs.

Like these sisters, Erica and Nicole. There to watch their mother run
the marathon. Nicole had at least two surgeries to hold the bones together
in her leg. Erica remains in critical condition after having one leg
amputated below the knee.

These are just a few of the incredible stories of survival.

But we are also learning more about those that didn`t survive.

29-year-old Krystle Campbell of Arlington, Massachusetts, was among
the dead. She was there cheering on her boyfriend. Her devastated father
talked about how she was always willing to lend a hand.

And we are learning more about 8-year-old Martin Richard. Friends and
neighbors remember him as a boy full of life who loved sports, running and
climbing the neighborhood trees. His mother, Denise, a school librarian
and his 6-year-old sister, Jane, were critically wounded in the attack.

They are just a few of the human stories of inspiration and tragedy
that are capturing our hearts tonight.

Joining me now live from Boston is MSNBC`s Chris Jansing, host of
"Jansing & company."

Chris, thanks for being on tonight.


SHARPTON: I wanted to ask you because it really got to me about this
8-year-old boy. What more are we learning about Martin Richard today?

JANSING: Well, you know, Rev., the first pictures we saw of him was
this kid with this megawatt smile and it broke your heart. But then, there
was something else that came out, and it really has moved people so deeply.
It was a photo taken less than a year ago. And the school that he went to
was having a peace march. And he had made a sign. And it had just four
simple words on it, no more hurting people and then a peace sign. And to
think that he was the victim of violence.

He was there at the finish line with his family. They had gone
together to have a great day. Apparently he had just come back from
getting some ice cream. And when the blast happened, he was killed. His
mother had to have surgery. She has a serious brain injury. And his
sister, who is just a first grader at the same school where their mother
was the librarian, has had one of her legs amputated.

The school released a statement about young Martin Richard, calling
him a bright, energetic young boy who had big dreams and high hopes for his
future. We are heartbroken by this loss.

And so many of the neighbors, the father was a community organizer and
beloved in the community. They have been going to the home and leaving
flowers and leaving balloons and leaving candles. It is hard to put into
words what that neighborhood is feeling or the entire community about
what`s happened to this family, Rev.

SHARPTON: I mean, on any death and all three certainly have shaken
everyone. But when I saw that photo of him in the peace walk less than a
year ago, it really just stood out. But we are also learning more about
Krystle Campbell, who lost her life yesterday. What are you hearing about

JANSING: She was a restaurant manager. She was 2001 graduate of a
local high school, Medford high. And she had gone like so many people --
the thing about the Boston marathon is that, you know, people go with their
best friends. They go with their families. And she had gone with her best
friend to cheer on another friend who was running. There have been
postings put up and websites dedicated to her. She has described as having
a million dollar smile and gorgeous, bright red hair. And not
surprisingly, her father has said the family is absolutely devastated by
her loss, Rev. And, of course, you can understand.

SHARPTON: Oh, yes. We certainly can.

Now, we briefly mentioned the story of two brothers, J.P. and Paul
Nordin, who each lost part of a leg in the bombing yesterday. What do we
know about their story, Chris?

JANSING: I mean, your heart stops when you hear what happened. Their
mother, Liz Nordin, was coming home from the grocery, and her phone rings.
And it`s her son, and he says, Ma, I`m hurt real bad. He was in an
ambulance on the way to the hospital. He had somehow gotten separated from
his brother. They are 33 and 31. They had gone to the race. Again, you
know, to have a good time. And they ended up in separate hospitals. And
both of them have ended up having one of their legs amputated below the
knee. And, in fact, as of this morning, doctors had not allowed their
mother to visit because they were heavily sedated. And she said -- told
some local reporters that she was absolutely dreading going in there and
having to see them. Hard to believe that in one family, again, something
like this could happen, Rev.

SHARPTON: Wow. Well, Chris Jansing, thank you for your time tonight.

JANSING: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Boston is an important city. It`s where America`s freedom
was borne e born. The Boston tea party happened there. And the single act
of defiance that told the British rulers, no more. The shot heard round
the world that started the American Revolution was fired there. It led to
the signing of the declaration of independence.

These were the original minutemen. The first acts of bravery that
formed the nation happened there in Boston. This is not the kind of city
that gives up easily. The mayor talked about that.


MAYOR THOMAS MENINO, BOSTON: For (INAUDIBLE), a lot of people willing
to work together to make this a better place for all our people. And so,
as we gather here today with all our officials, let`s say Boston will


SHARPTON: My trips to Boston, and I`ve been there often, the people
are proud. The people have a real sense of pride in the city. And they`re
resilient. They bounce back. They keep coming.

And in this city, in this city that has so much history; that has
shown so much of where this nation was actually born and emerged from, this
is the city that we are looking at tonight with this horrific act.

Joining me now is "Boston globe" columnist, Kevin Cullen.

Kevin penned a very moving piece about yesterday`s event. He wrote
quote "in an instant, a perfect day had morphed into something viscerally
evil. We will get through this, but we will never be the same."

Thank you for your time. Such tragedy in your city, Kevin. You were
walking around today. How is the city responding?

used the right word. It`s a resilient city. It`s also a tough city. I
think you know that. We, in Boston we will take two punches to land one.
And whoever did this to us, they didn`t just do it to us. They did it to
everybody. But it`s going to take a lot more than that.

We are not going anywhere. And I will guarantee you, Al, next year,
the Boston marathon will have a record field. People will come from all
over the world as they do every year. But more people will come. And we
will show the people who did this what they bit off. Because they can`t
chew it.

SHARPTON: The 8-year-old young man, young boy, who was killed, what
can you tell us? I mean, people all over the world are looking at that
photo of him saying, no more hurting people, peace. And it`s captured the
attention of the world. He`s one of the three victims. What can you tell

CULLEN: Well, all I can tell you is that Martin represents everything
that`s good about this place. I didn`t know him. I didn`t meet him. I
know his family`s reputation. They are a great family. Good Dorchester
people. And, you know, I was so struck that thinking that whoever did
this, I wonder if they have children of their own or if they will someday
have children of their own. And if that child says to them, hey, daddy,
what did you do in the war? If that person answers honestly, they would
have to say, I killed an 8-year-old boy. His name was Martin Richard.
That`s what I did in the war.

SHARPTON: Wow. Let me ask you this, Kevin. As you moved around
there today and as you looked and talked to the people, do you get a sense
of fear or do you get a sense of we are going to come back, we are going to
fight back, we are going to show the world the resilience that Bostonians
pride themselves in?

CULLEN: I sense no fear whatsoever. I sense resolve. I sense people
-- you know, Al, the funny thing is, we are famously aloof here. I mean,
you go to Fenway Park, you sit next to somebody, they wouldn`t even talk to
you. They wouldn`t tell you what time it is.

We are just that way. We are not -- people in Chicago, they will talk
to a telephone pole. We are just different here. But I will tell you,
this is a great place. And there is a solidarity. I`ve been saying, I was
in Omar, Northern Ireland in 1998 when a bomb exploded there and killed 28
people and an unborn child. I was in London in 2005, the 77 bombings where
more than 50 people were killed by bombs on the underground and the bus
there. And today felt like that. It felt -- there`s incredible sadness
here. And we have to bury our dead. And we have to honor our first
responders and make sure they were OK.

But I`ll tell you what, this place is focused. And we will get
through this. And I say we will be -- we will never be the same, we will
be better. We will be better.

SHARPTON: Wow. I`m going to leave it right on that hopeful note.

Kevin Cullen, thank you for your time.

CULLEN: Thanks, Al.

SHARPTON: Coming up, the intense effort to find out who committed
these crimes, and the incredible stories of people who rushed to help
others in those moments of fire and panic. The heroes of Boston.

Stay with us.


SHARPTON: The world is responding to yesterday`s tragedy in Boston.
Across the globe, security immediately increased in major cities. Today`s
world newspapers captured the emotion, too.

A Brazilian paper called it marathon of terror.

In Ireland, marathon mayhem.

"The Times" of London called it carnage with this photo of the blast.

London`s marathon is this weekend, and it will go on as scheduled,
now, with a planned tribute to the Boston bombing victims.

This was the scene earlier today at the U.S. embassy in Russia.
Locals placing flowers outside the entrance. A simple tribute from
thousands of miles away, closer to home.

Here is today`s sports section of the "Chicago tribune." We are
Chicago Red Sox. We are Chicago Celtics. Everyone is standing with the
people of Boston and New York, too. That`s the Brooklyn academy of music
with New York, NY loves Boston, on clear display.

Standing together for a grieving city around the world and right here
at home.


SHARPTON: Welcome back. It`s just past 6:30 p.m. eastern.

And here is the latest on the terror attacks in Boston that have left
three people dead and more than 170 hurt.

President Obama will travel to Boston on Thursday to speak at an
interfaith service for the victims.

We are learning more about the three dead victims. One was 8-year-old
Martin Richard. 29-year-old Krystle Campbell has also been identified.
The third was a grad student at Boston University. That name has not been

Investigators say the bombs were made from pressure cookers that were
hidden inside duffel bags. As we struggle to make sense of what happened,
today President Obama reminded us of the best we`ve seen in Boston.


refuse to be terrorized because what the world saw yesterday in the
aftermath of the explosions were stories of heroism and kindness and
generosity and love. Exhausted runners who kept running to the nearest
hospital to give blood. And those who stayed to tend to the wounded. Some
tearing off their own clothes to make tourniquets. The first responders
who ran into the chaos to save lives. The men and women who are still
treating the wounded at some of the best hospitals in the world. And the
medical students who hurried to help, saying when we heard, we all came in.
The priests who opened their churches and ministered to the hurt and the
fearful. And the good people of Boston who opened their homes to the
victims of this attack and those shaken by it.


SHARPTON: Stories of heroism and kindness of ordinary people reacting
in extraordinary ways. Like the doctor at Massachusetts general hospital
who rushed to get back to work.


physicians was actually running the marathon. And dehydrated as he was, he
came back immediately after he finished the marathon to offer his help.


SHARPTON: He came straight from running the marathon to help victims
at the hospital.

We have also heard the story of former New England Patriots offensive
lineman, Joe Andruzzi, springing into action.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The patriots have tweeted this photo of
Andruzzi carrying a runner in the aftermath of the explosions. Those
explosions happening at the time when many of those running were doing so
for charity, including Andruzzi`s charity.

SHARPTON: And Andruzzi has been a symbol of hope before. His three
brothers were New York City firefighters during September 11th. And joined
the Patriots for the first football game after the 9/11 attacks.

And here`s the image that a lot of people are talking about today.
Carlos Arredondo rushing to help an injured man to an ambulance. Video
taken immediately after the explosions show him leaping into action, trying
to help the victims. At the height of danger, this man did what so many
others did. He put his personal safety aside to help others.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Run across by the American -- by the flags. And
start picking up people and bringing them to the emergency room here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: I was carrying so many who lost both of
their legs in the explosion. It was -- a lot of them lost limbs.
Catastrophic. I was carrying this flag. And I just -- my instinct was to
go help and see what I can do. And let`s just -- let`s just pray for the


SHARPTON: His instinct was to help others to see what he could do and
to pray. His stories like this that really give me hope.

Joining me now is Danielle Deines, a doctor who had finished running
the marathon when the bomb had gone off. She was actually receiving
medical attention after the race, but sprang into action to help others.

Danielle, thank you so much for joining me.


SHARPTON: What did you actually do in the medical tent?

DEINES: I was actually in there getting treatment for myself when the
bombs went off. And so, I turned to the nurse who was working on me and I
told her, look, if that was actually something real, I don`t know what that
noise was, but whatever it was, I`m a physician and I want to stay and
help. So, please just tell me what I can do to help.

I ended up helping set up a lot of IV lines, putting together kits for
IVs, moving around cots to triage different patients into different areas
depending on how severely they were injured. Figuring out -- trying to
help decide which patients needed to go to the ambulances and get to the
hospital first and which ones could stay and wait a little bit longer.

And then helping to discharge some of the runners who had been in the
tent before all this even started who just were there for leg cramps and
whatever and wanted to get out and go find their families.

SHARPTON: So you had run because I want people to understand this
kind of reaction that I think is heroic that you and others demonstrated.
You had actually ran the entire race, was getting medical attention, and
heard the blast and said, if this is something wrong, I want to stay and
help. This is after running 26 miles and hearing a blast that you didn`t
know what it could have been. Rather than run, you could have run for
safety, run for cover, you said, no, I`m going to stay here tired and help
my fellow Americans.

DEINES: Yes, I really didn`t see that there was an option for me. I
knew that I could leave, but at the same time, I have the training and I
have the ability to help in some way. And I think whenever you are in a
situation like that, you have to ask yourself if you`re going to be a help
or a hindrance. And I felt like I could be a help so I wanted to stay and
do whatever I could.

SHARPTON: Did it ever occur to you even for a fleeting second that
you may be in danger, that you might be putting yourself in the line of
some serious peril?

DEINES: It did cross my mind. They started rearranging things in the
tent before they started bringing the first victims in, I thought, you
know, there could be another backpack in this tent and I would have no idea
about it.

But at the same time, you have no idea that there would be something
on the street as soon as you walked out there, either. So I didn`t feel
like I was in any worse or better danger by leaving or staying. So, I
figured I could do the most good by staying there.

SHARPTON: Now, when you started seeing some of the victims come in,
were any of them seriously injured that was in the particular tent that you
were at? I mean, what did you see in terms of the victims that were
brought in or the injured that were brought in?

DEINES: There were some pretty horrific injuries. Anything from just
minor cuts and scrapes all the way up to people who had lost part of their
limbs or had clothing and shoes blown off. It was pretty horrible.

SHARPTON: And at that point, obviously, you knew it had been a bomb
or something like that. And you just -- your medical side took over to
help people. I would imagine some of them in intense pain.

DEINES: Yes. We had actually had a disaster training preparedness
day at our medical school as part of our fourth year of training right
before we graduated. So, I at least understood the flow of things and had
seen some of the ways that they used to triage patients and kind of
understood what was going on. And so, it gave me an idea of where I could
step in to help.

SHARPTON: How long did it take you to run the marathon?

DEINES: It took me three hours and 13 minutes.

SHARPTON: After three hours and 13 minutes in the tent getting a
little attention yourself, you stayed there and helped.

You know, Danielle, heroes are not those that would say, I was not
afraid and I never had a second thought about danger. Heroes are those
that say, you know, this could be dangerous, but I`m going to do it anyhow.

You are a hero in my book and thank you for being with us tonight.

DEINES: Thank you so much.

SHARPTON: Our next guest was at the finish line of the marathon and
shot stunning video just after the explosion. It`s video you may not have
seen yet.

Let`s take a look.


SHARPTON: That`s video from just after the bombs went off.

Joining me now is Stamatis Astra, the man who took that video.

Thank you for joining us tonight.

Your video really shows people jumping into action. How quickly were
people starting to help one another?

unbelievable. Everybody jumped into someone in need. There were little
babies that were in trouble. There were people covered in blood. And we
are not trained, we are not first responders, but immediately everybody who
could help just jumped and helped each other. It was -- it was just
everybody jumped in.

SHARPTON: So in a split second, when you hear the explosion, the
bombs go off, there`s this -- this chaos, bloodshed, broke limbs, and at
the same time, people just spontaneously jumping in, that`s what you saw?

ASTRA: The first bomb went off and there was a little bit of stop.
And when the second one, like, 12 seconds went off, everybody knew there
was something really wrong. And everybody jumped in. We threw the rail
down. We walked into the street. And there were people with blood that
couldn`t walk. There was a husband and a wife. He was begging to be close
to his wife. A couple of guys and myself, we grabbed him, we put them
together. We got them into the ambulances as fast as we could. It was
terribly careless, but we did the best we could.

SHARPTON: All right, Mr. Astra, thank you for your time.

ASTRA: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Ahead, new details about the investigation. Stay with us.


SHARPTON: Right now, investigators are poring through photos and
videos from dozens of sources, looking for their -- some new details on
that, including a photo that a lot of people are talking about. That`s



DESLAURIERS: The person who did this is someone`s friend, neighbor,
co-worker or relative. We are asking anyone who may have heard someone
speak about the marathon or the date of April 15th in any way that
indicated that he or she may target the event to call us. Someone knows
who did this.


SHARPTON: The FBI agent in charge of the investigation in Boston
saying the public will be crucial in finding those responsible. The FBI is
examining photos like this. Given to NBC affiliate WHDH. To see if the
nylon bags might have been placed in trash bags on the sidewalk to appear
less conspicuous.

Now, we don`t know if this particular bag is relevant. But it`s one
of many possible leads for investigators.

Joining me now is former FBI profiler, Clint Van Zandt.

Clint, thanks for being here.


SHARPTON: What kind of information can we learn from photos like

VAN ZANDT: Well, one of the things that the FBI will do is they will
take photographs of the actual blast area. They will superimpose it over a
photograph like you just showed us to try to suggest, did that blast
actually originate from that bag or was it left, right or behind it?

So, we have got a baseline of where the explosion took place. Any
other photographs will be compared against those two explosion sites,
number one, to see if a bag had been there. Number two, we will be looking
for someone who carried such a bag. Remember, Al, that the FBI describes
two different black nylon bags. If you think about -- if you think about
these pressure cookers, a friend of mine, Larry Johnson, former CIA,
commented that these would weigh about 20 pounds each. That`s a lot of
weight for somebody to carry in that area, Al.

SHARPTON: Now, what kind of damage can these type of bombs do, these
pressure cooker bombs?

VAN ZANDT: Well, let`s say, for example, in February of this year, a
pressure cooker bomb was used in India, with us set off, 17 dead, 120
injured. In July 1976, a hijacking took place in America. Croatian
separatists hijacked a New York to Chicago flight. During the hijacking,
they said, and if you don`t believe we have a bomb, look in a storage
locker at grand central and you will see a pressure cooker bomb. New York
PD found it, took it out, tried to render it safe. The thing exploded and
killed a bomb tech.

So these can be very deadly. And, Al, these things have been used for
30, 40 years in Afghanistan, Pakistan and other places like this.

SHARPTON: Now, does this suggest, then, I`m going to ask you -- I
asked an earlier guest, does this suggest a certain type of group or
certain type of -- of ideological thinking body uses this type of weapon or
type of bombs, or is this just used by different types in different places
and occasions that you`ve already named for us?

VAN ZANDT: Well, Al, a similar -- once again, a similar type twice
was contained inside the vehicle in 2010 that a former Pakistani national
set in Times Square, tried to detonate to blow up in Times Square.

So, here we have one used by Croatian terrorists and one used by
Pakistanis and one used in India. All of these by definition have one
thing in common. They have more of an international aspect to them than
they do a domestic. So, that`s just part of the investigation.

Part of the consideration, the FBI and the joint terrorism task force
has to have as they try to understand the origin of this device and whose
hands put this monstrous device together.

SHARPTON: Now, does that, then, suggest that the bomber or bombers
had ties to some overseas group?

VAN ZANDT: Well, you know, it used to be, Al, you had to get on a
plane and go to some terrorist training camp and learn how to build these
things. Now, you go on the Internet. You go into certain websites and it
has all of the plans, all of the making, everything you want to. So, there
are terrorist training camps right now being conducted on the Internet
that`s in front of every American.

So, while that may have one time had a purely international
connotation, now we could still get a hybrid, Al. You could get an
American, for example, who was somehow radicalized who got on those
websites, learned how to build that device, and set it off for a to be
determined political, religious or personal reason to commit the mayhem
that he did.

SHARPTON: Clint Van Zandt, thank you for your time.

VAN ZANDT: Thank you, Al.

SHARPTON: How Americans come together in the face of unspeakable
tragedy. That`s next.


SHARPTON: As I was traveling today coming through the airport, a lady
said to me, Reverend Al, what do I say to my grandchildren about how
heinous and heinous sensitive and hateful someone or some group could be?

I said to her say to them how loving, how caring, how heroic others
were, how people who ran the race didn`t turn around for shelter when they
heard the bomb. They ran in danger`s way to stand up for other citizens.
Say to them how people ran into the smoke, not knowing if another bomb
would go off. How people interrupted their own lives and safety to try and
shield others.

What makes this country great are not cowards with pressure cooker
bombs, but people that forget themselves into heroic acts. That`s the real
story we should take to our children. That for every despicable hater,
there are 10, there are 20 Americans that will say I forgot danger. I`ve
conquered my fear. And I did what we should do as one American for

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "Hardball" starts right now.


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