IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

PoliticsNation, Wednesday, June 5th, 2013

Read the transcript from the Wednesday show

June 5, 2013

Guests: Marcia Fudge; Keith Ellison; Abby Schanfield, Cade Bernsen, Alton Scott, Lauren Ashburn, Joe Madison

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Thanks, Chris. And thanks to you
for tuning in.

Tonight`s lead, the president`s big move today. President Obama named
his next national security adviser, U.N. ambassador Susan Rice.

Just months ago, Republicans dragged her name through the mud over
Benghazi. They smeared her reputation, attacked her integrity. The
personal attacks triggered a sharp response from the president.


senator Graham and others want to go after somebody, they should go after
me. But for them to go after the U.N. ambassador, who had nothing to do
with Benghazi? And was simply making a presentation based on intelligence
that she had received and to besmirch her reputation is outrageous. When
they go after the U.N. ambassador, apparently because they think cease an
easy target, then they have got a problem with me.


SHARPTON: They`ve got a problem with me. Yes, they did. And today
the president showed just how little their garbage talk mattered.


OBAMA: Susan was a trusted adviser and led diplomacy at the United
Nations in my first term. She helped build my foreign policy team and lead
our diplomacy at the United Nations in my first term. I`m absolutely
thrilled that she`ll be back at my side leading my national security team
in my second term.


SHARPTON: Republicans, do you have any questions about who is really
in charge? At the height of their phony outrage, John McCain went on six
different TV shows in one weekend to make his point. And other right
wingers followed his nonsense.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We will do whatever is necessary to
block the nomination that`s within our power as far as Susan Rice is

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I don`t trust her. And the
reason I don`t trust her is because I think she knew better and if she
didn`t know better, she shouldn`t be the voice of America. I don`t think
she deserves to be promoted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How could we, where we are right now, be able to
place our trust in her?


SHARPTON: Guess what? None of that cheap talk mattered. As national
security adviser, Rice will play an even bigger role than she would have as
secretary of state. She will be in the president`s ear, as his chief
adviser on national security. She`ll help lead the president`s daily
briefing as she takes part in meetings of the national security council.


OBAMA: Whether background as a scholar, Susan understands that
there`s no substitute for American leadership. She is at once passionate
and pragmatic. I think everybody understands that Susan is a fierce
champion for human dignity but also that we have to be wise and


SHARPTON: Slander and tried to obstruct is what they tried to do to
Eric Holder. And, by the way, he`s not stepping down. And it is what they
tried to do to Susan Rice. How would that work out?

Joining me now, congresswoman Marcia Fudge, Democrat from Ohio, and
Karen Finney is also here with me as well.

Congresswoman, you`ve been a strong supporter of Susan Rice. I mean,
you`re out front when Republicans were attacking her months ago. What
message does this send to the right today?

REP. MARCIA FUDGE (D), OHIO: Well, the one thing it does is, Al,
first let me say thank you for having me on, Reverend.

What it says when you have a professional, someone who has for their
entire career worked in national security, whose academic background lint
itself uniquely to this position, I think that the president did today the
right thing, not only to serve the president but to serve the United

I think she is, in fact, uniquely qualified for this position and I
congratulate her and I applaud him for making this decision today.

SHARPTON: Now, you talked about her background. Her resume is
impressive by anybody`s standards. As U.N. ambassador to the U.N., senior
adviser for national security affairs of the Obama campaign, senior fellow,
Brookings institute, special assistant to president Bill Clinton, masters
and PhD world scholar in Oxford University.

You couldn`t get a more impression resume. Yet, with all of that,
Karen Finney, John McCain tweeted his displeasure. He sent out this tweet,
quote, "obviously, I disagree with Potus, president of United States,
appointment of Susan Rice, as national security adviser, but I`ll make
every effort to work with her on important issues.

message from the president is get over it. She`s going to be in this
administration. I`m going to promote her. I`m going to give her an
important position. And it`s great to see that Susan is going to be in
this position.

You know, she`s -- I worked with her in the Clinton administrations.
She is also a mom. She is a working mom. I mean, she`s a role model for
women as well. She also has done incredible things during her time at the
U.N. for on behalf of women and LGBT community. I mean, this is someone
who brings not just a depth of knowledge but, as you mentioned, someone who
really has the president`s trust. And I think that`s going to be critical
given the hot spots that we`ve got around the world and the national
security challenges that we`re facing right now. He`s got to have people
that he knows that he can trust. Their judgment that he knows he can trust
around him because he`s going to have tough decisions.

SHARPTON: Now, Congresswoman, one of your colleagues, Republican
congressman, Darrell Issa, he had to say this today about Susan Rice. I
want your reaction. Let me play it for you.


Susan Rice claims that she reads the classified dailies. Obviously, if she
read the classified daily, she couldn`t have been so wrong on Benghazi.
It`s unfortunate that the president is rewarding someone for talking points
that is simply not true.


SHARPTON: Congresswoman?

FUDGE: Well, you know, what I tell you, Reverend Al. I am just so
disappointed at the continued bashing of Susan Rice and other people in the
president`s administration and the president himself. I think Darrell Issa
does himself and his party a disservice by continuing to take the low road,
instead of looking at what we could do as a nation together. I am
certainly hopeful as John McCain has said that he`s going to work with her
on big issues, I hope that those of goodwill and those wanting to see the
country move forward will take the same advice and do what John McCain has
said that they will do.

Now, I think that we have to, at some point say to people like Darrell
Issa, (INAUDIBLE) some place and as Karen Finney says, get over it. Let us
do what is necessary to move this country in the right direction. And I
think Susan Rice is, in fact, the best positioned person for this
particular role that we have in the country today.

And so, you know, I`m just very saddened by his tone and by the
negativity that continues to come out not only him but other members of his

FINNEY: He`s also just wrong. I mean, as we now know, everything
that we`ve seen in the e-mails that have been released and the evidence
that we`ve looked at suggests that everything Susan has said from the
beginning was exactly what was known at that time. And in fact, as you and
I talked about it when this happen, she was protecting our national
security interests because we know that General Petraeus was very concerned
at that time about information getting out about the CIA installment. I
say that is a patriot. How dare they call her a liar. They should
apologize to her. They`ll never do it but that`s what she is owed from
these men.

SHARPTON: Yes. And I have been saying that for months, she said what
she was told and it appears that what she was told was what they knew at
that time.

FINNEY: And it was in the best interest of the United States of
America at that moment. That`s what should be guiding those decisions, not
whether or not some silly Republicans are going to attack her from the

FUDGE: Nobody likes a sore loser.

SHARPTON: Go ahead.

FUDGE: No, I will just say, nobody likes a sore loser. That`s what
Darrell Issa is.

FINNEY: That`s right.

SHARPTON: Yes, That`s true. But let me also say this. The president
also made another very bold appointment today by appointing Samantha Power
as his appointee to the -- nominee to be U.N. ambassador.

Now, when we look at her background, she`s a human rights journalist
and academic. She`s also author of "America from hell." It is about
America`s response to genocide in the 20th century. She`s a Pulitzer prize
recipient, worked on national security council staff since 2009.

I mean, to have someone who has written about genocide in the 20th
century and the United States response to it is a bold nomination.

FUDGE: There`s no question about it. I think she brings us a very
strong voice to the U.N. and to all of the people who will be working with
her at the U.N. And I just can`t imagine that anyone would question at
this stage of the game either of those two nominations because if they do,
they not only have a problem with qualified people, but with qualified
women in particular.

FINNEY: Absolutely.

SHARPTON: Karen, you said that this is the president`s way of sending
a message to the Republicans that he`s not going to bow and he`s not going
to bend and he`s moving forward with his agenda?

FINNEY: That`s exactly right. And I think both of these women and
their expertise and their talent represents, I think apart of where he
wants to go with this foreign policy agenda, the challenges that we are
facing on the foreign policy, national security spear. And as you said at
the beginning, it sends the message, you know what, I`m in-charge. I get
to decide who goes in what role. Not you.

SHARPTON: Two strong women and I`ve had two strong women start the
show tonight.

Congresswoman Marcia Fudge, thank you for your time tonight.

FUDGE: Thank you.

SHARPTON: And Karen Finney, your new show starts on MSNBC this
weekend, 4:00 p.m. Saturday. Congratulations.

FINNEY: Thanks, reverend.

SHARPTON: We will all be watching.

Ahead. The right wing scandal machine is about to be broken. Big
news on the president`s approval and agenda today.

And caught on camera, an explosive response to the story of police
brutality that we brought you last night. Tonight, a deeper look into the
long history of racial violence in Texas.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was scared. I thought they were going to kill
me. I mean, I thought I was going to lose my life. That was it.


SHARPTON: And the right wing`s ugly attack on first lady Michelle
Obama over heckling. It`s an ugly pattern.

And friend or foe, I want to know. E-mail me and I might just respond

Stay with us.


SHARPTON: Have you joined the "Politics Nation" conversation on
facebook yet?

Today, people loved this photo of President Obama and Medgar Evers`
widow, Myrlie Evers Williams, taking a moment to honor the civil rights

Richard says, we should honor her and her husband`s sacrifice to make
our country and the world a better place for all of us.

Gloria says, so proud of her courage and steadfastness in the face of
such great suffering and lost. A tremendous role model for us all.

Rod say, the man standing next to her is the direct result of her
husband`s sacrifice.

Coming up later, we`ll hear some of the powerful tributes to Meg Evers
from a ceremony today, marking 50 years since his murder. We`ll never
forget him.

But first, come share your thoughts. Please head over to facebook and
search "Politics Nation" and like us to join the conversation that keeps
going ends.


SHARPTON: All the hot air from the right on the scandals has me
thinking, what do they actually do? They are taking time away from the
scandal machine and the scandal mania to vote on defunding ACORN again.
One small problem. It doesn`t even exist anymore. We`ve got a party that
doesn`t actually work on anything real and America is on to their game.

In a brand-new NBC poll, the president`s approval rating is at 48
percent. That`s up one percent since GOP scandal mania. Why? Because the
president is focused on what really matters.

Today, we learned job creation is at five-year high. And what about
that job killing affordable care act? You know, the law they`ve spent
millions on to repeal 37 times. More news today that it`s working.
California says premiums will cost significantly less than expected.
Republicans in Arizona caved under the pressure from governor Jan Brewer to
schedule a vote on expanding Medicaid. And Democrats are now planning to
run on Obama ca in 2014. So while the GOP is making noise, the president
is actually working to make America better.

Joining me now is Congressman Keith Ellison, Democrat from Minnesota.
He`s co-chairman of the progressive caucus and Abby Schanfield, a 22-year-
old student who was born with the rare congenital and chronic disease.

Thank you both for coming on the show tonight.



SHARPTON: Congressman, the president`s approval is up and today we
learned he will head to California on Friday to tout Obama care and that it
is working. You are champion for health care, what are you doing to get
the word out?

ELLISON: Well, one of the things that we`re doing is using social
media. Just this morning I tweeted out a question to my constituents and
asked them, hey, guys, tell me about your direct experience with Obama
care. No pontificating what is your direct experience with the Obama care.
The affordable care act. And I got back really dozens and dozens of
responses. But I didn`t have to go far because Abby here has within a
friend of mine for a while. And I`ve known her for about a year now and
she`s a direct beneficiary of the affordable care act. So I could have
just walked out of my office and asked her how it was going because she has
an important story to tell.

SHARPTON: Abby, what -- how`s it going?

SCHANFIELD: Well, it is going well. Like you said, I`m a direct
recipient of the affordable care act. And I`m impacted by the fact that I
can stay on my parent`s plan now until I`m 26. And given that I have
several pre-existing conditions, I am no longer barred from getting access
to care that I need as well as the lifetime and annual limits no longer
impact me. So pretty much the law in many of its most critical aspects
affect my life directly. I`m very lucky.

SHARPTON: And you have some long-term health concerns that you`re
dealing with. Am I right, Abby?

SCHANFIELD: Yes. Yes, I do. I was born with a rare congenital
disease called (INAUDIBLE) and it primarily impacts my vision as well as my
several other impacts but most directly, I have a hydrocephalous so have a
shants (ph) and I have to have brain surgery rather regularly and without
notice ,so I have a lot of hospitalizations that are very expensive.

SHARPTON: Now, Congressman, when you hear Abby, who you`ve known for
a year, tell what this plan and what this means to her, some of the
responses that I`ve read that was tweeted back to you after you had tweeted
the question you raised.

Deborah tweeted, I was able to get health care when I was recently
employed for a year and I have a pre-existing condition. Thanks, Mr.

Robert says, our 19-year-old college student son had a knee operation
covered by our health insurance saving us $15,000. Thank you, AHCA.

Maxi told you, my mom`s insurance had to continue covering me and
saved me $5,000 in medical bills this year. Thanks, Obama care.

I mean, you`re hearing firsthand from Abby, from tweeters, that send
you personal stories. This is beyond the beltway, how this really means to
the average American person. This is not political spin.

ELLISON: That`s right. That`s right, reverend.

The reality is, before we pass the affordable care act, I heard health
care nightmares on a daily basis, when I was out in the community, knocking
on doors, talking to folks, just walking around the grocery store, people
would stop and tell me literally heartbreaking stories that the affordable
care act came to address.

As a matter of fact, I believe that there are improvements that could
be made on the affordable care act. This should be a public option. There
are other things that we can look at to make the bill better but it is a
giant step beyond what we had before. And we`ve even seen medical
inflation begin to trend in a more downward direction than before. And so
costs, quality, coverage, it`s working and we need to support it.

SHARPTON: Now, while we`re hearing from Abby, while we`re reading the
tweets and hearing things from people firsthand and I agree it could be
better but certainly it`s a giant step, let me show you what the
Republicans are talking about, Congressman.


repeal and replace Obama care.

law of the land. Is that clear?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, the only answer to this is to repeal Obama

administration to be more forthcoming about the details of this scandal
because so far they have been anything but.

BOEHNER: My question isn`t who is going to resign. My question is,
who is going to jail over this scandal?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Somebody said, this is as bad as
Watergate. Well, nobody died in Watergate.


SHARPTON: Scandals, repeal Obama care. Let me ask you, Abby. with
you dealing as you have with your own health challenges and with this act
what he it means to you, how do you feel when you hear these responses from
people in the Senate and the Congress talking about these other matters and
kind of marginalizing what you and a lot of Americans have to deal with?

SCHANFIELD: Well, obviously I take it very personally. It`s my life
and millions of peoples` lives that they are talking about. There are
lives at stake. I mean, millions of Americans are now insured and have
access to extend its coverage, stability for you adults who are facing
having to pay for their own insurance, people with preexisting condition
who are facing, frankly, like myself, my owned mortality if I was not

I mean, it`s very upsetting, especially since this is a very personal
issue. Like you said, it`s not political at all. It`s an incredibly
important issue for the health of our nation and the future of our nation.

SHARPTON: Congressman, as you hear -- Yes, go ahead.

ELLISON: I was just going to say, you know, the famous Republican
pollster Frank Luntz wrote in a memorandum that if the Democrats got health
care passed, that it could marginalize Republicans for a long time. I
think that explains why there is so (INAUDIBLE) fighting against it. For
them, it is politics, for Abby, it`s life or death.

SHARPTON: Well, I think also when you ignore life and death or for
those who may not have life and death situations but children who need to
stay insured and other things and you ignore that and play partisan
politics, I think you marginalize yourself, Congressman.

ELLISON: I think you`re right, Reverend. The fact is, this year
we`re going to roll people into these state-based exchanges. That is going
to get people who haven`t had insurance a chance to get insurance,
something they haven`t had. Their only option The being the emergency

And so now, you know, we`re already going into full blast trying to
help people understand what the exchanges are, how they can sign up, how
it`s going to benefit them, what it`s going to cost them, the subsidy that
they will be eligible for will be and people really have to know that.

We have several districts setting up in my district right now n
Minneapolis and, you know, we are getting plenty of response and people are
looking forward to it including small business people who have a lot of
questions. Small business people are telling me that, you know, we`ve
heard all of the spin, we heard Limbaugh, but now that it`s the law, we`ve
got to deal with it. And they say Congressman Ellison, you know, what do
we need to know? And I`m telling them, it`s going to be good.

SHARPTON: Well, let me say that I`m really glad that we spent this
time with you, Abby Schanfield. It was a pleasure to have you on tonight.
We are going to have you on again.

And it is all right, you brought Congressman Ellison along with you.

SCHANFIELD: Thank you.

SHARPTON: We will have at too. Thank you both, though, for your time

ELLISON: Thanks, Rev.

SCHANFIELD: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Ahead, Rush and the gang have a new ridiculous attack on
the first lady. You`ll want to hear this one.

Plus, new developments in that awful police video out of Texas. I`ll
tell you what happened to that woman after she appeared on this show last

And of questions asked and answered. E-mail me at

Stay with us.


SHARPTON: The right wing is shamelessly attacking first lady Michelle
Obama again. They are outraged at the way she handled a confrontation with
a heckler at a fund-raiser.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Who do you think you are asking
me that? Don`t you know who I am? I am mucho Michelle Obama. And you`re
here to be listened to me. You are here to be dazzled by me. You`re here
to be impressed by me. You`re here to wish you were me and you dare to ask
me -- you either shut up or I`m out of here. And that`s who they are.


SHARPTON: Classy, Rush. It wrecks of fear and desperation. I have
some more to say on this coming up.


SHARPTON: New details tonight about that disturbing police video
that`s reopened old wounds in a town with a horrific history of racial
violence. Last night we showed you this video of a Jasper, Texas officer
slamming Shea Diggles` head into a counter at the police station. After
she was brought in to settle a $100 unpaid traffic ticket. The same
officer drags her along the floor by her ankles pulling her into a jail
cell. Last night Shea Diggles told me how terrified she was.


thought they were going to kill me. I mean, I thought I was going to lose
my life. That was it.

SHARPTON: We all remember Shea, the horrific murder of James Byrd,
Jr. back in 1998. How are race relations in Jasper today compared today as
compared to then?

DIGGLES: Nothing. Hasn`t anything changed. Everything is still the


SHARPTON: Both officers shown on the tape have been fired. Today,
Miss Diggle`s attorney filed for a federal injunction, ordering the Jasper
police to preserve any videos and documents connected with the incident.
All of this happening in a town with a notorious past. In 1998, three
white men chained James Byrd, Jr., a black man, to the back of a pickup
truck, dragging him until he was decapitated. Fifteen years later, the
town of Jasper still struggles with the deep divide.

Joining me now is Shea Diggle`s attorney, Cade Bernsen, and joining us
on the phone is Jasper City Councilman Alton Scott. He voted to fire the
two officers Monday. Thank you both for being here tonight.

CADE BERNSEN, SHEA DIGGLES` ATTORNEY: Thank you very much, Reverend.
It`s an honor to be on your show again.


SHARPTON: Now, Mr. Bernsen, let me go to you first. You filed for
federal injunction today, why?

BERNSEN: Reverend, we filed for -- we applied for a federal
injunction to make sure that the Jasper Police Department does not tamper,
destroy, or alter any evidence. We have reason to believe that we have not
received the full videos. The video we have received does not have audio.
We understand that there is audio available. We need that audio. We are
very much concerned that the evidence will not be preserved as it should
and we want to ask a federal court to make sure that that evidence is
preserved so we can get to the bottom of this.

SHARPTON: So there was audio because we didn`t hear it on the tape.
Why didn`t we hear it on the tape? Where is this audio?

BERNSEN: Reverend, we don`t know where the audio is. We`ve been
informed by other law enforcement people that we know that audio should be
on that tape. It absolutely makes sense why it would be on that tape. It
is much for the safety is the police as it is for anybody else. We need to
get to the bottom of that and we hope that the court will make sure that
they preserve all of that necessary evidence.

SHARPTON: Now, your client was on the show last night and I
understand she got some harassing calls or something after appearing on
this show?

BERNSEN: Yes, Reverend. After the show and today, numerous people
have called, they will breathe into the phone and then hang up on her and,
quite frankly, she, her grandmother and mother and children are terrified.
They live in a small town, live by themselves, and we are very much
concerned for their safety. We have contacted the district attorney there.
We have contacted the FBI and put them on notice and begged them to provide
protection for these people if necessary and so that hopefully nothing
happens that escalates this matter into something worse.

SHARPTON: Yes. What was the response from the FBI? Have you gotten
any without, you know, of course, revealing something that would compromise
their security but are you confident that there is some independent
response to look out for them?

BERNSEN: I`m fairly confident. I believe -- I believe we have good
people in our area. We`ve made note of it. And they won`t exactly tell us
what they are doing but I`m very prayerful we`re making a record, we`re
making a paper trail, so that if something does happen, people will know
that we did our due diligence and we`ve done everything that we can to
protect our clients.

SHARPTON: Alton Scott, let me ask you, what was your reaction and
what was it when you saw this tape?

SCOTT: Well, Reverend Sharpton, when I saw this tape, I was very
angry and very upset that this could still happen in 2013, something like
this was still happening inside the police department. And it was almost
covered up. And I must say, (INAUDIBLE) I`ve checked into the part of the
audio and there is no audio on that system. It`s such an old system, that
there`s no audio on it. It`s just a video surveillance cameras.


SCOTT: And it doesn`t have audio on it.

SHARPTON: Now, let me ask you this, then. In light of that, should a
larger investigation to the Police Department there in Jasper be launched?

SCOTT: Oh, most definitely. Most definitely.

SHARPTON: You know, you`re --


Go ahead.

SCOTT: At the council meeting the other day, Monday, we voted also to
have the district attorney to investigate it for criminal charges and by
the FBI.

SHARPTON: So you voted to have the district attorney and the FBI look
into these officers for possible criminal prosecution?


SHARPTON: Now, your town has had its share race a trouble over the
years. Nineteen-ninety eight, I talked about the Byrd case, I was there
for that. Do you think things have gotten any better?

SCOTT: Let me say, the more things change, the more they remain the

SHARPTON: Well, I think that says a lot. Let me go back to you for a
minute, Mr. Bernsen. Would you like to see the whole investigation of this
incident be handled by the Texas rangers or the FBI? I mean, how do you
want to see this handled?

BERNSEN: Let me just say, Reverend, we absolutely want an outside
independent group not related to the Jasper PD to come in and investigate
this. We believe that there was a cover-up. There is a clear timeline
that is emerging. This brutal beating occurred on May 5th, six days before
the mayor`s election. And I believe that this information was publicly
withheld, purposefully withheld from the public and basically but for the
courageous acts of basically a whistleblower releasing this video, those
policemen would still be on the street and my client would be charged with
a crime.

And so absolutely we need the FBI or the rangers and if it is a Texas
ranger, we want a ranger not from East Texas but from some other part of
the state and come in and investigate because charges need to be brought
against these law enforcement officers and their superiors need to be
reprimanded at the least.

SHARPTON: All right. We will stay on this story. Cade Bernsen and
Councilman Alton Scott, thank you both for your time tonight.

SCOTT: Thank you.

BERNSEN: Thank you very much.

SHARPTON: Ahead, the right wing piles on the first lady again.
They`ve got a brand-new attack, it is a doozy.


SHARPTON: The right wing has used every reason under the sun to
attack the first lady and today they are going after her again, this time
for defending herself. It all stems from an incident last night when Mrs.
Obama responded to a heckler doing a private fund-raiser.


MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: Right now, today, we have an obligation
to stand up for those kids. And I don`t care what you believe in, we don`t
(INTERRUPTION) wait, wait, wait. One of the things I -- one of the things
that I don`t do well is this.



SHARPTON: The heckler was an LGBT rights activist pushing for an
executive order on gay rights. According to the pool report, the first
lady then moved over to the protester saying, quote, "Listen to me or you
can take the mic but I`m leaving. You all decide. You have one choice."
The crowd cheered and the protester was escorted out. But it hasn`t
stopped there for the right. The editor of the right wing Drudge report
tweeted, "Audio of the first lady versus heckler is concerning, tight and
wound up like ready to explode even before interruption." And Rush
Limbaugh had this to say.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: In typical totalitarian
authoritarian -- look, I`m not very good at this. She`s not good at having
conversations with people and she`s not good at listening to what other
people say. Who do you think you are asking me that? Don`t you know who I
am? I am mucho Michelle Obama and you`re here to listen to me, you`re here
to be dazzled by me, you`re here to be impressed by me, you`re here to wish
you were me. And you dare to ask, you either shut up or I`m out of here.


SHARPTON: Totalitarian, authoritarian? That`s laughable, even for

Joining me now are Lauren Ashburn and Joe Madison. Thank you both for
coming on the show tonight.



SHARPTON: So Joe, now it`s totalitarian to respond to a heckler. I
mean, don`t Rush and the gang have any shame?

MADISON: No. The answer to that question is no. And Rush doesn`t
know the difference between authoritarian and righteous indignation.
That`s what you heard. I mean, you know, it`s funny, my wife said, what
that heckler should have been concerned about is if Michelle Obama would
have kicked off her shoes and put her hands on her hip, then she would have
really saw the south side of Chicago come out on her.

First of all, the reality is that the first lady can`t issue an
executive order. Secondly, the people paid $500 and not to hear a heckler
but to hear the first lady. The right wing knows this. I mean, this goes
back to even before she was for this. This goes back to the image remember
on the cover of the magazine and she had gun and she had an afro and she
was the angry black woman. So, they`ve gone from the angry black woman to
just this resentment that they have of this entire family. This entire


SHARPTON: Lauren, I mean, let me show you what the right has always
found a reason to attack the first lady, from her playful fist bump with
the president to her healthy eating initiatives. I mean, listen to this,


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: A fist bump. A pound. A terrorist fist jab.
The gesture everyone seems to interpret differently.

LIMBAUGH: If we`re supposed to go out and eat nothing, if we`re
supposed to eat roots and berries and tree bark, show us how. And dare I
say this, it doesn`t look like Michelle Obama follows her own nutritionary,
dietary advice.

GLENN BECK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The most Marie Antoinette I`ve ever
seen of anything with Michelle Obama, did you see the dress she was wearing
while she went down and toured the oil spill?

LIMBAUGH: We don`t like paying millions of dollars for Mrs. Obama`s
vacations. That`s a little bit of a waste. They understand it`s a little
bit of an uppity-ism.


SHARPTON: This is offensive stuff. This is really, really some bad
stuff, Lauren.

ASHBURN: It makes my blood boil. You know, good for her for sticking
up for herself. And I think that the way she did it was classy and it was
very instructive. Maybe the president could take a little bit from what
she did here. The last time there was a heckler with him, it went on and
on and on. And it was a little bit uncomfortable. Here she made it very
clear what she was going to do. Either you`re going to speak or I`m going
to speak at this private event where people have paid money.

Now, as a woman, I`m the only woman on this panel right here, I have
to tell you that walking that line, that very fine line between being
aggressive and overbearing and saying your mind and standing up for
yourself is very thin. You know, you step off at a millimeter and you`re
vilified in the press for being exactly what they said, this person who
thinks I am the most important one here and I have to have the attention on
me to being, why didn`t she stand up for herself?

WILLIAMS: I would say for you to -- you know, you keep walking the
way you walk and do what you want to do. We come from a long line of
strong, black women. The Barbara Jordans, the Maxine Waters, the Rosa
Parks, the people that speak up, the Fannie Lou Hamers, these are the
people that speak up see the lowest tuckers.

SHARPTON: But it is and there`s no doubt about that, Joe. But it`s
hard dealing with hecklers and, you know, I remember in 2004 when I was
running for president, I handled some hecklers for my colleagues that was
running against me and myself at a debate. Let me show you this.


If we have a democratic president who will go back to the kind of
fiscal responsibility -- come on.


Come on!

SHARPTON: I think that, listen, if people -- if people have got
something to do, they should do it now and let us have this debate. We
don`t appreciate it. I don`t care who is not on this stage. You`re going
to respect us on this stage because we`ve got something to say. Now, if
you`ve got some problems, say it now.



SHARPTON: I probably was a little more student of the school of
diplomacy that the first lady was. But go ahead, Joe.

MADISON: No, but I mean, we have all handled this issue. Those of us
who have spoken, I`ve done the same thing. I`ve spoken, some people have
been drunk, some folk just want to get attention. And the sad thing about
this heckler is, we`re not really talking about what her issue is as much
as people are saying don`t mess with the first lady.

SHARPTON: As well as, Lauren, she`s not an elected official. She
couldn`t give the executive order and this president has around issues that
we`re talking about here taking a lot of grief and it`s gone further than
any sitting president that I could think off on the issue of gay rights.

ASHBURN: Well, imagine four years ago, Michelle Obama or three years
ago or two years ago coming out and doing something like this right before
an election. You know, she`s now starting, just now starting, I think, to
say this is who I am, this is what I am going to be, these are the opinions
that I have, take them or leave them, she couldn`t necessarily do that
before this election.

Now I think we`re going to see her getting into a little bit more
policy-oriented talk, and as a result we may see her approval ratings take
a hit for that. But what you get on the other side of it is someone who is
going to stand up for those issues that her husband does support and be a
good voice for him.

SHARPTON: Well, I think, Joe, also that it is time that people stand
up to guys like Rush. You know, some of the reasons that I play -- what I
play is that it`s downright offensive, it`s repulsive, calling people that
are the president and first lady of the United States uppity. I mean, you
may take some hits in terms of your approval rating but at some point,
you`ve got to draw the line, what you are going to tolerate from these
people that constantly disparage and disrespect what you`ve achieved for
yourself and for this country.

MADISON: You are 100 percent right. And when you see the president
speak out and address it, when you see the first lady do what she does, I
guarantee, she`s not going to take a hit and as far as her speaking out on
policy and speaking her mind, you know, I think folks ought to listen to
your show and my show a little bit more. Because when I interview the
first lady, she`s very direct about issues and she does the same thing when
she`s on your show. So I guess it`s who you`re listening to but I can tell
you when she`s on my show she does not -- she`s straightforward.

SHARPTON: Very straightforward.

MADISON: Absolutely.

SHARPTON: Lauren Ashburn, Joe Madison, I`m going to have to leave it
there. Thanks for your time this evening.

MADISON: Thank you.

ASHBURN: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, Attorney General Eric Holder just responded to
his critics and he made some news. You`ll want to hear them next.


SHARPTON: It`s time to answer your e-mail questions. Remember,
friend or foe, I want to know.

Ralph asks, "Which of the following do you feel has a better chance of
eventually defining the president`s legacy? The killing of Bin Laden or
his health care plan, assuming it`s a success?"

Well, I think it will be the health care plan. I think what Mr. Obama
did as president is certainly something that is going to be remembered and
written in history for a long time, securing the country, killing the man
that it was clearly responsible for killing 3,000 Americans but I think
changing the health care system and opening it up and democratizing
insuring Americans is a long lasting legacy of a positive nature.

Dale wants to know, "If Republicans are so unpopular, why do a lot of
TV political pundits give Democrats a rather dim chance of winning control
of the U.S. House of Representatives in 2014 elections?"

I think that it`s because of how they re-cut the lines. The
Republicans put these very safe districts together that they, because of
how they set the districts, are going to make it very difficult to take
some out. Which means if we had a huge turnout like we did last year, in
the districts that are there, we can take it but we need a big turnout. It
will not happen without real passionate voting.

Finally tonight, in an exclusive interview with NBC Pete Williams,
Attorney General Eric Holder says, he is not stepping down.


PETE WILLIAMS, NBC ANCHOR: Is it your intention to serve this term

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: No, that`s not my intention.
Behind me is a portrait of Janet Reno who served eight years under Bill
Clinton. I was her deputy attorney general for four of those years.
There`s some things that I want to do, some things I want to get done that
I`ve discussed with the president, once I`ve finished that, I`ll sit down
with him and we`ll determine when it`s time to make a transition to a new
attorney general.

WILLIAMS: But to be clear, you are not stepping down now?

HOLDER: No, I have no intention doing so now.


SHARPTON: He has no intention to stepping down and I don`t see why he

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


Transcription Copyright 2013 ASC LLC ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No license is
granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not
reproduce or redistribute the material except for user`s personal or
internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall
user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may
infringe upon MSNBC and ASC LLC`s copyright or other proprietary rights or
interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of