The Ed Show for Saturday, July 13th, 2013

July 13, 2013
Guests: Sarah Slamen, Jim Moore, Karen Desoto, Kendall Coffey, Paul

JOY REID, GUEST HOST: Good evening, Americans. Welcome to THE ED SHOW,
live from New York. I`m Joy Reid, sitting in for Ed Schultz.

The jury deciding the fate of George Zimmerman is still in deliberation.
We`ll bring you the latest.

But, for now, this is THE ED SHOW. Let`s get to work.



SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Republican Party, although it has diversity
on this issue, home of the pro-life movement in American politics.

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: They took a bill that had been about motorcycle
safety and decided to turn it into a new abortion bill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The action never stops.

RUBIO: What we have on the one hand is a woman`s right to choose, whatever
they mean by that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is already a very difficult decision for me.
This will make it more traumatic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the goal.

the child? Can the father own the child?

JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW: Can the government totally own the mother?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is non-debatable. The clerk will call the roll.
You`re out of order.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re out of order.

GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: Never in the history of Texas have they seen
that type of mob rule come in and discombobulate a legislative session.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for finally working against this woman so
publicly. Not in the shadows like we`re used to.



REID: Now, I`m sure you`ve heard about the effort across this country to
restrict women`s access to health care. But did you know there`s a group
coordinating these efforts, targeting reproductive rights across the
country state by state, threatening to leave women without life saving
care? The group`s ultimate goal, roll back the 1973 Roe versus Wade
decision giving women the legal ride to an abortion.

And now, we have breaking news out of Texas, where last night Republicans
passed the controversial abortion law that sent thousands of women to the
capital over the last two weeks. That makes Texas the 13th state to pass
on abortion after 23 weeks.

Take a look at this map. We`re seeing this trend across the country. Now,
let`s get back, let`s back up to Tuesday where former Arkansas Governor
Mike Huckabee traveled to Austin to support the Texas bill. Speaking at a
stand for life rally, Huckabee employed a by now familiar message.


HUCKABEE: Nobody today who has an IQ above broccoli would ever advocate
that we should return to the days when somebody believed that one person
had the right to completely own another person. That`s repulsive to all of
us, isn`t it? If we all can agree that no person can own another person,
then how can we ever come to the conclusion that one person can take the
life of another person and deem that person of less importance?


REID: Now, this analogy is nothing new. Antiabortion activists have
equated abortion to slavery and likened themselves to modern day
abolitionists before. But in making this analogy, these groups seem to
miss the irony of their desire to control the reproduction of other people.

A quick history: slave owners possessed total authority over the
reproduction of the women and men bound to them. They decided how, when
and where female slaves gave birth.

Now, giving state governments the power to essentially force women to carry
unwanted pregnancies to term by either outlawing abortion or because all
other options have been closed off isn`t slavery. But it does rob modern
day women of their autonomy and therefore their liberty. You smell the
hypocrisy here?

Well, Governor Rick Perry is expected to sign the anti-abortion bill next
week, although Democrats like filibuster hero Wendy Davis are vowing to
keep up the fight.

Now, pro-choice activists in Texas are not giving up, but the response to
the protests, well, that`s just plain bizarre. Yesterday, before the party
line vote, troopers at the state capital search bags and confiscated --
wait for it -- tampons and pads for women going in to watch the debate.
This, despite the fact that those with a concealed handgun license were
still allowed to bring their guns into the gallery. True story.

This isn`t just happening in red states. It`s happening in almost every
purple state that Republicans won in 2010. In Ohio, where Republican
Governor John Kasich signed regulations into law that requires doctors to
perform transvaginal ultrasounds on women seeking abortions. The bill also
redefines a medical emergency from an emergency that, quote, "threatens a
woman`s health", to one that would, quote, "result in her death."

In the Wisconsin state senate, meanwhile, debate over a bill requiring
women to get an ultra sound before they could get an abortion erupted into


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, I move that the body vote immediately on
the current question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question before the House is non-debatable.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- before the House is non-debatable. The clerk will
call the roll.

CLERK: Senator Carpenter, Coles, Collins --


CLERK: Darling --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re out of order!

CLERK: Ellis, Erpenbach --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down, you`re not recognized. The question is non-
debatable. Call the roll.


REID: That man saying the question about woman`s health, non-debatable.

OK. It actually gets crazier. In North Carolina, without providing public
notice, House Republicans amended a bill on motorcycle safety standards to
include restrictions on abortion. According to report, some legislators
were only aware that it could not teenage abortion-related provisions three
minutes before the committee was set to meet. This shady process inspired
online outrage, including the Twitter #motorcyclevagina.

Though each state faces a unique fight, the basic premise is the same. And
listen closely. This rash of anti-abortion legislation sweeping the
country isn`t a coincidence. It can all be traced back to one group,
Americans United for Life.

AUL called itself the premier legal life, pro-life legal team. It`s a
legal team that has been involved in every abortion related case before the
U.S. Supreme Court since Roe v. Wade.

Now, what makes it so successful is that AUL provides lawmakers across the
country with prewritten bills that politicians can treat like legislative
mad libs. That it allows them to easily introduce bills without needing to
research and write the bills themselves. Did you hear that?

Republican lawmaker can take the credit but this isn`t home grown
legislation born of the demands of their constituents. This is legislation
prefabricated by an unelected group that`s using stealth legislation to
roll back abortion rights state by state.

You have to remember that if Roe v. Wade is overturn, it sends the issue of
abortion back to the states. And in these states, the rollback will
already be in place. Check and mate.

The opponents of a woman`s right to choose don`t mince words, by the way,
when it comes to using even anti-Obama hatred to rile up their followers.


SANDY RIOS: It is generally from my opinion the promiscuous white men who
are pushing abortion. I would say even the promiscuous black ones like our
president. Forgive me, I shouldn`t say that. But they`re the ones that
want sexual license. They do not want responsibility. Abortion has always
helped men more than it helps women.


REID: Now, this week, we witnessed a moment that captured the frustration
that many women across the country are feeling.


SARAH SLAMEN: It was destiny that you would discriminate against us and
try to force your way inside the body of Texas women. Thank you for
finally working against us women so publicly and not in the shadows like
you`re used to. Thank you for every single bad press conference with your
bad information. Thank you for every hateful statement degrading women and
girls to sex objects and broodmares and bald eagles and leather wallets,
like your eloquent pro-life supporters have done today.

Thank you for being you, Texas legislature. You have radicalized hundreds
of thousands of us. And no matter what you do for the next 22 days, women
and their allies are coming for you.

Let`s start down the line. Senator Campbell, you`re an ophthalmologist.
So I won`t be making you the expert on reproductive health. We can give
you all the children with Chlamydia and herpes in their eyes since we don`t
have sex ed in the state.

And Senator Hegar, you`re about as helpful --


SLAMEN: You`re about as -- excuse me. This is my government, ma`am. I
will judge you. I will judge you, ma`am. Is this counting against my


SLAMEN: The senator talking against me?


SLAMEN: OK. Well, I will just go ahead and talk over her. And this is
how big of a fraud I knew you were for being so proud of these proceedings
all night. It`s a low bar that you hold yourself to that you simply
allowed us to speak.

And I will speak against an ophthalmologist who says -- everyone on the
Internet can see what you`re doing right now. This is a farce. The Texas
legislature is a bunch of liars to make women --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our next witness is Gary Olden (ph).


REID: OK, folks, get your cell phones out. I got to know what you think.
Tonight`s question: are Republicans winning the war on women? Text A for
yes, text B for no, to 67622. Or you can go to our blog at
And I`ll bring you the results later in the show.

And joining me now is the woman you just saw, Sarah Slamen.

Ms. Slamen, thank you so much for being here.

SLAMEN: Hi, Joy. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to show you the new
lone star of Texas. We`ve replaced our old star and Governor Perry and
Lieutenant Governor David Dewhurst now insist that we use this as the new
star of Texas.

So thanks for giving me the opportunity to debut it today on your show.

REID: No, Sarah -- I mean, we`re going to get back to that, that lone star
Texas that you created there.

But I want to actually give you a chance to finish, because you had two
minutes that you were supposed to have anyway before that nice officer
gentleman carted you out of the legislature. Tell us what the rest of your
point would have been. I mean, I thought you`d made some powerful points
about treating women like broodmares. But what would you have said had you
had the rest of your time?

SLAMEN: Remember, Joy, I only had two minutes. What I had done was
compiled a quick list of facts about each Republican on the Senate Human
Health and Services Committee. I was going to get as far down line as I

So, for example, with Senator Bob Deuell, I was going to point out that he
didn`t represent a largely urban district. He didn`t understand the
complexities of a lot of low income residents. He is used to serving a lot
of residents who look like him.

Also, I was going to point out the fact that he wasn`t upholding the
Hippocratic Oath that he swore to uphold when he became an OB-GYN, and
instead that he was trying to act as woman`s god.

When I came to Senator Jane Nelson, I was going to respond to the talking
point that she kept throwing out pro-choice testimonies all night, bragging
about her $100 million that she had gotten for women`s health. And I was
going to point out about how that was like flicking a band-aid at a
hemorrhage. The kind of hemorrhage a woman might have after a back alley
abortion, because after the 2011 session, when they passed a mandatory
transvaginal ultrasound bill, and they cut all the funding to women`s
health clinics and Planned Parenthood, we lost dozens of clinics. That`s
why some places have zero clinics.

And like when I was in McAllen, Texas, yesterday, they have two clinics
that will now be shut down by this bill. There`s no need to brag about
what you tried to do in this session when session after session and
especially this bill, SB-1 destroys all of that work and name only that she
had done in the 83rd.

When it came to Charles Schwertner, I was going to tell him to stick to
orthopedic surgery and stopped talking about reproductive health. He was
not an expert in that. When it came to Senator Taylor, I was going on ask
why this was the first time in a decade we`d ever heard about him talk
about such a concern for the safety of women`s abortion procedures.

So it was going to go down line as long as I could get, mind you, in two

REID: Right. I mean, you only mentioned one female legislator in that
litany of people that you spoke about. How many women were on that dais?
Is part of what outrages you and other activists in the pro-choice movement
the fact that so many men are making these decisions and essentially ruling
women`s voices out of order?

SLAMEN: Yes. But legislature is 85 percent male, like our national
Congress, it`s not acceptable. You`re talking about the health care
decisions of 50 percent of the population, actually 51 percent. Abortion
is a medical part of our health care, 30 percent of women under the age of
40 will experience in their lifetime.

It is not a moral decision. It is not something for people to contemplate.
It is just a fact of life. Women have been having abortions, safe or not,
since we knew we could abort pregnancies, since we could plan families.

And so, when you ask about who was on the dais that day, there was Senator
Donna Campbell being totally disingenuous about her expertise on
reproductive health. There was Senator Jane Nelson, a former school
teacher and someone who is being very arbitrary. I believe she said last
night in her remarks on the Senate floor, she believes fetal pain starts at
the time that`s proposed in the bill. She doesn`t care that she has
substantial evidence.

I would like to point, on the dais, was Senator Sylvia Garcia from Houston,
who won a special election in the last cycle. She was not on the committee
but she made the effort to be there and weigh in and ask questions of all
those senators who did not have the evidence they needed to push this bill
down our throats. So I want to commend Senator Sylvia Garcia for being

REID: OK. Well, Sarah, I want to ask you, you know, from the point of
view of your critics. A lot of the critics are looking what you said,
Erick Erickson send out a tweet about you and linked it to a Web site in
which he essentially said, dear liberals, showing coat hangers. You held
up that coat hanger lone star of Texas.

So, your critics would say, well, you must be pro-abortion. Are you pro-

SLAMEN: Nobody is pro-abortion. I don`t know who that works on exempt for
people who have so few brain cells, or so much hate in their heart that
they can`t contemplate the fact that most women in Texas give birth. You
know, out of all the pregnancies that happened in Texas, I believe in 2009,
70 percent of those women gave birth, you know? If people are able to have
a family in support of family, we want to do that.

But in a state where 63 percent of all minimum wage workers are women, and
in a state where 25 percent of the people live in poverty and more poverty
and deeper poverty than the rest of the United States, and where 25 percent
of them don`t have health insurance -- planning a family gets a lot harder.

So I`m pro-life. I`m just pro, you know, an actual life after you come out
of the womb. I`m pro having sexual education in your schools. I`m pro
children not going to bed hungry and sick at night in Texas.

REID: Yes. Well, Sarah, you seem very young to me and I`m sorry that
women your age, that young women are having to learn about the idea of coat
hangers, which was the option for so many women before Roe v. Wade passes
and abortion was made legal in this country. But I definitely want to
thank you for your advocacy, and thank you for being here tonight.

SLAMEN: Joy, can I mention one more thing?

REID: Sure. Quickly.

SLAMEN: People are asking how they can help us. If you can donate to
NARAL Texas, they only have three staff members statewide. If you can
donate to the little (ph) fund Texas, we are going to need abortion funds,
we are going to need transportation costs for the women west of 35.

So thank you.

REID: OK. So, thank you so much, Sarah Slamen, for your time.

All right. I want you all to remember tonight`s question there at the
bottom of the screen and share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow and
Facebook. We want to know what you think.

And we`re still awaiting a decision from a jury in a George Zimmerman
trial. We`ll bring you the latest on that as well. So, please stick


REID: Time now for the trenders. Here at THE ED SHOW, we listen to you.

Every week before the show, we check out Facebook, Twitter and our blog.
So, now, you decided, we`re reporting. Here are this week`s top trenders
as voted on by you.



REID (voice-over): Our number three trender, the Schultz shuffle.


REID: Ed wowed the crowd with his moves at last weeks Essence Festival.

CUPID: We just put you on television dancing.


REID: The number two trender, Senator Sarah?


REID: The half-term Alaska governor thinks she can see Congress from her


SEAN HANNITY: There`s been talk you might run for senator in Alaska. Have
you considered that at all?


TINA FEY, COMEDIAN: What would a maverick do in this situation?


PALIN: I`ve considered it because people have requested me considering it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, God, please, no.

REID: And this week`s top trender, Rick rollout.

GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: I will not seek reelection as governor of

Adios, Mofo.

REID: But the Texas governor could push his policies in 2016.

PERRY: We have better protected the right to life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The governor said this week the bill blocked this
week will pass in the next special session. Would it ban abortions after
20 week and effectively close most abortion clinics here in Texas.

PERRY: Encourage economic growth.

You know what I mean, like 9 percent.

ED SCHULTZ, "THE ED SHOW" HOST: Here we have a Republican governor from
the, quote, "great" state of Texas vetoing a by American bill.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: There are three good reasons he could be
president. You know, Texas is a big successful state. He is a long term
governor. I can`t remember the third one.

PERRY: I can`t. The third one, I can`t, sorry. Oops!



REID: And joining me now is Jim Moore. He may not be able to dance like
Big Eddy but he is the author of a great new book, "Adios, Mofo."

How are you doing?

JIM MOORE, AUTHOR, "ADIOS, MOFO": I`m well, Joy. How are you?

REID: Doing great.

So, Rick Perry -- let`s talk about the governor of Texas. He`s till got
some time left on his tenure. Do you think he can do more damage on the
way out the door?

MOORE: Well, he could. I think what he is going to do is spend his time
trying to rebrand himself and make himself look presidential, or at least
more presidential than he looked the first go-around. He`s probably going
to associate with some think tanks. And that we heard the other day that
he`s got a trip planned to Israel, which is exactly what George W. Bush did
before he decided to run.

So Perry is trying to reconfigure things and look -- make himself look not
quite as lame as he did the first go-around.

REID: Well, you know, Jim, you mentioned George W. Bush. And I`ve had
this conspiracy theory, George W. Bush, who is from Maine, he and his from
Kennebunkport, Maine, he is so similar to Rick Perry that I figured he had
to have been imitated Rick Perry when he was in Texas.

Is there any truth to my conspiracy theory?

MOORE: No. I don`t think so. Perry is a completely separate animal
although they were both tutored by Karl Rove. Perry and Rove split the
sheets some time ago.

But they do come across. They have this look. This kind of persona in a
way of carrying themselves that is a sort of false bravera (ph) that they
both project. And they are not what one would call intellectual
heavyweights. That`s for sure.

REID: But policy-wise, give me what the differences would be. The idea
that Rick Perry would be president, it says George W. Bush third term. Are
there any differences policy-wise?

MOORE: I`m not a fan of either. At I would say is that George W. Bush was
considerably important moderate than Rick Perry. Bush wasn`t a big fan of
abortion, but he was not out there promoting and using it as a divisive
issue. And Bush did use gay marriage as a way to get elected.

But on a personal basis, Bush was completely did not care. These are
things that Perry is much more politically craven than George W. Bush ever
was. Perry will say and do whatever it is necessary for him to say or do
to get some sort of excited political support out of the base that can get
him through primary process.

REID: You just talked about the excitement of the base. Right now, the
Republican base seems to be high on two people. That`s Rand Paul and Ted
Cruz. What would Perry have to do to claw his way in to the mix when the
base really is looking more at those two men?

MOORE: I`m not really sure that it`s going to be possible. I think what
Perry will run into with Ted Cruz, what Kay Hutchinson ran into with Rick
Perry when she ran, and that is that the Tea Party has chosen their person.
And Rick is working very hard on promoting this anti-abortion bill and
fighting gay rights and all of those sort of base issues that excite the
Tea Party. And he is hoping to get the back in his tent.

But Ted Cruz is more articulate. Ted Cruz is a guy who seemingly has more
charisma. And he also, unfortunately, seems to be even crazier than Rick

REID: Well, yes, I`m going to let you have that come.

There is one issue on which Rick Perry has seemed to be somewhat like
George W. Bush and somewhat similarly, given the Republican Party, where
they are, somewhat moderate for them. That is on immigration. He ran into
some trouble on the immigration issue about allowing young people to go to
college, et cetera, and get instate tuition.

Is he still there on immigration, or do you think he will run away from it
the way Marco Rubio has?

MOORE: I think he is trying to avoid it. Remember that many of the people
who supported Rick Perry, their business relied on undocumented workers --
the biggest builder in the state of Texas who is the biggest donor to Rick
Perry, the late Bob Perry, not related, by the way, gave a lot of money to
Rick Perry. And his business relied on undocumented workers.

Big business in Texas, agribusiness, home building, restaurants, you name
it, is very dependent on these people that come into this country to do the

So, Rick has to be very careful with this issue.

REID: OK, very quick exit question. Rick Perry stepping aside. Wendy
Davis, who has become a big star over the abortion issue and her
filibuster, does she have a shot at that governor`s mansion?

MOORE: Well, she`s only eight points behind Greg Abbott, who is the heir
apparent of the Republicans. I think if she announced she was going to
run, she could raise $50 million in a month. I think the question is
whether she is up for that kind of tough, dirty fight that it would be to
run for governor in Texas.

REID: All right. Well, she`s certainly a national star.

Thank you so much, Jim Moore, knowledgeable about all things. We really
appreciate you being here.

MOORE: My pleasure.

REID: All right. The jury continues on deliberate the George Zimmerman
trial and we will have analysis coming up.\

And making a buck off minimum wage workers. John Nichols joins us with the

But next, I`m taking your questions. Stay tuned, you`re watching the issue


REID: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

We love hearing from our viewers.

And tonight in "Ask Ed Live," the first questions comes from James McBride.
"Why is reforming the filibuster so -- why do so many people vote against
their own interests?" Sorry. Reading the wrong question.

I think a lot of people, Jim, don`t really vote based on issues. A lot of
people are busy. They have lives. They don`t have time to read up and
study up on all the issues. They pretty much vote based out of habit.
They vote based on party.

So, if dad is a Republican, son is a Republican. If mom is a Democrat,
they`re a Democrat.

So, I think most people don`t read that much into it. And unfortunately,
ideology and politics are so tied together that red state people feel
culturally, they`re supposed to vote Republican.

All right. Our next question.

OK. We`ll be right back. There`s no next question. We`ll be right back.


REID: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

In roughly six hours of emotional argument on Thursday and Friday, the
defense and the prosecution in the George Zimmerman second-degree murder
trial gave jurors their closing arguments. The prosecutor Bernie de la
Rionda on Thursday said Zimmerman who has claimed self-defense in the
shooting death of the unarmed 17-year-old made wrong assumptions about
Trayvon Martin on the night of the shooting.


BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, PROSECUTOR: A teenager is dead. He is dead through
no fault of his own. He is dead because another man made assumptions.
That man assumed certain things. He is dead not just because the man made
those assumptions, because he acted upon those assumptions. And
unfortunately, unfortunately, because his assumptions were wrong, Trayvon
Benjamin Martin no longer walks on this earth.


REID: Prosecutor de la Rionda went on to ask why George Zimmerman would
follow Trayvon Martin if he thought he was a threat.


DE LA RIONDA: Recall how he says at one point, that Trayvon Martin is
circling his car? And my point in saying that is, number one, you have to
determine whether that`s true. Let`s presume that part is true. And he
says he has got something in his hands.

Why does this defendant get out of his car if he thinks Trayvon Martin is a
threat to him? Why? Why? Because he`s got a gun. He`s got the
equalizer. He`s going to take care of it. He is a wannabe cop.


REID: And for the defense, on Friday, attorney Mark O`Mara used visual
aids to explain the standard of reasonable doubt to the jury, insisting
prosecutors had not proved Zimmerman`s guilt.


MARK O`MARA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is what really matters for today. And
that is self-defense. It`s interesting, because I have another poster I`ll
show you in a little bit -- trying to figure out how to make self-defense
make sense to you, because it`s sort of like disproving a negative.

The state carries a burden without question of proving to you beyond a
reasonable doubt that George Zimmerman did not properly act in self-
defense. And if I misspeak, let Mr. Guy fix it. George Zimmerman is not
guilty if you have just a reasonable doubt that he acted in self-defense.


REID: O`Mara went on to say jurors cannot use emotions and sympathy in
place of Florida law to render their verdict.


O`MARA: It is a tragedy, truly. But you can`t allow sympathy to feed into
it, when I say that to you, you should sit back. Raise your hand and go,
are you nuts? How dare you tell me to leave sympathy out of my life? How
dare you tell me to leave my emotions besides? How dare you? I don`t do
that ever in my life.

Welcome to a criminal courtroom.


REID: After that, prosecutor John Guy gave the state`s rebuttal focusing
on what he calls Zimmerman`s lies and using emotional language to ask
jurors to use their common sense to look into the hearts of George
Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin in rendering their verdict.


GUY: What do we owe Trayvon Martin? Sixteen years and 21 days. Forever.
He was a son. He was a brother. He was a friend. And the last thing did
he on this earth was try to get home.


REID: And joining me now for our rapid response panel is defense attorney
and former prosecutor Karen Desoto, former U.S. attorney Kendall Coffey,
and veteran prosecutor, Paul Henderson.

I want to start with you, Karen.

Defense attorney O`Mara used a slab of concrete. This was his attempt to
try and prove that Trayvon Martin had means on inflicting bodily harm on
George Zimmerman.

Let`s take a look at that.


O`MARA: How many times was it said that Trayvon Martin was unarmed?
That`s cement. That is a sidewalk. And that is not an unarmed teenager
with nothing but Skittles trying to get home. That was somebody who used
the availability of dangerous items, from his fist to the concrete, to
cause great bodily injury. Not that it is self-defense, but great bodily
injury against George Zimmerman.


REID: Now, Karen, given the fact that Trayvon Martin was not in fact
carrying a giant jagged slab of concrete around with his Skittles and
Arizona juice drink, do you think that was an effective tactic?

KAREN DESOTO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it was effective only because,
Joy, in this case, what you want to do as a defense attorney is turn the
defendant into the victim. That`s very difficult to do in a case where the
victim, Trayvon Martin, in this case, is a 17-year-old teenager.

So, how are you going to do that? You`re going to have to use more
theatrics. You`re going to have to use that kind of big slab of cement to
drive your point home. How are you going to compensate for not being able
to attack the victim?

This is how you do it.

REID: Right.

And on that point, to your point of Trayvon Martin being a 17-year-old
teenager. And I want to direct this question to Paul, because what the
prosecution tried to do, in order for the giant slab of concrete to work,
you have to believe that Trayvon Martin was not a scared teenager. He was
a sort of felon in waiting, a fiend who was ready to kill George Zimmerman.

Did the prosecution do a good job of turning him back into a scared
teenager? Let me play a clip of John Guy and get a response.


GUY: Was that child not in fear? When he was running from that defendant?
Isn`t that every child`s worst nightmare? To be followed on the way home
in the dark by a stranger? Isn`t that every child`s worst fear? That was
Trayvon Martin`s last emotion.


REID: Paul, what do you think? Did that work?

PAUL HENDERSON, VETERAN PROSECUTOR: I thought that was very effective. I
followed it completely. I was involved. I was emotionally evoked by his
words and his comment.

I would have liked to have seen even more. I think it would have been
great had he been able to allude to him as not just a child but as a son.
And talked about how the mother was expecting for him to come back. How
the son was expecting him to come back on that evening.

And, you know, one of the things that I thought was really power. Here and
what they used when the defense got up and showing those images of Trayvon
Martin. They tried to show him with his grill on the couch. And they
tried to show the big grainy picture which they fought so hard for in their
closing of him in the 7-Eleven.

I would have liked to have seen some rebuttal comments about those images
to say, like look, he is trying to show you these stereotypical images and
allude to Trayvon Martin in not a truthful fashion, because the reality of
it is, no matter what kinds of pictures he`s showing you right now, Trayvon
Martin was a teenager going for some Skittles. That`s the truth, and he
was unarmed.

And now, he is dead. So I think both lawyers did a really good job in my
opinion of laying out the fact that they had, you know, I`m an emotional
person and I get excited. And so I look for that in other lawyers as well.

But I think they did a really good job of laying out the issues in this
case. So, we`ll wait and see what the jury does it with it.

REID: And, Kendall, you`re also a former prosecutor, as is Paul. So, I
want to get your take on a tactic not used by the defense, that explicitly
-- I mean, by the prosecution -- and that is explicitly making the case
about race. This was a young black male that, you know, a lot of African-
Americans are invested because of that. They decided not to use it.

I want play a clip of John Guy and get your response to that.


GUY: This case is not about race. This is about right and wrong. It`s
that simple.

And let me suggest to you how you know that for sure. Ask yourselves. All
things being equal, if the roles were reversed, and it was 28-year-old
George Zimmerman walking home in the rain with a hoodie on to protect
himself from the rain, walking through the neighborhood, and a 17-year-old
driving around in a car who called the police, who had hate in their heart,
hate in their mouth, hate in their actions. And if it was Trayvon Martin
who had shot and killed George Zimmerman, what would your verdict be?
That`s how you know it`s not about race.


REID: Now, Kendall, you`ve prosecuted cases in Florida. Had you been
prosecuting this case, would you have made race a more explicit factor in
the case? Because in a way, John Guy actually did make it about race when
he reversed the positions of George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin, just at
the end of his presentation.

KENDALL COFFEY, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: That`s what I thought was
fascinating. He is saying take race out of it which is the high road. Of
course, you want the appeal to the jury just on the evidence.

But at the same time, the way he kind of flip it was very vivid. I could
see a lot of honest jurors absorbing the reality of what he said, making an
instant connection.

So, I thought it was the perfect way to take race out of issue and yet
bring it home if the races, if the people had been reversed, how would the
jury be feeling about this case?

REID: All right. Well, thank you very much to Karen Desoto, Kendall
Coffey, Paul Henderson, great insights from all three of you. Thanks all.

HENDERSON: Thanks for having us.

COFFEY: Thanks.

REID: All right. Well, tonight in our survey, I asked you, are
Republicans winning the war on women? Thirty-four percent of you say yes,
66 percent say no.

And coming up, minimum wage workers fight back against corporate greed.

This is THE ED SHOW, on MSNBC.


REID: In "Pretenders" tonight, the island reject. Elisabeth Hasselbeck,
after a stint on the show "Survivor" decided to sit back, take it easy,
kick back and enjoy "The View". Unfortunately, her co-hosts didn`t always
see it her way.


BARBARA WALTERS, "THE VIEW": Every single day, you never, ever say maybe
there`s another point.


REID: Hasselbeck announced she has voted herself off the talk show in
favor of a curvier seating arrangement at "FOX & FRIENDS" where we`re
confident she`ll fit right in.


WALTERS: Tell us why you think that Sarah Palin would make a very good

ELISABETH HASSELBECK, "THE VIEW": Since I`ve been studying for this pop
quiz, I -- tell me why Barack Obama is qualified.

HASSELBECK: Write the rules and write the rules on (INAUDIBLE).

You cannot ignore the fact, there are abortions done for superficial

Everybody speculating whether Trump is actually going to run. We could be
focusing on the fact that he may be responsible for creating more jobs than
our president has.

In the pop culture, when they`re -- this is upsetting to me.

WALTERS: OK, just take a breath and let someone else talk.

HASSELBECK: Because it`s a conversation that is hard.


REID: Breath, Elisabeth. Her new friends assured viewers, that the hits
will keep on coming.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today is going to be her last day over there at the
Barbara Walters yakfest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you imagine she will have a chance to be on a show
where they actually let her talk?


REID: Elisabeth Hasselbeck is the move that`s the most natural for her,
one to the far-right world of FOX. But if she thinks the step in the right
direction of news, she can keep on pretending.

We`ll be right back.


REID: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

We understand that media may be going back into the courtroom in the George
Zimmerman trial. We have been following the developments in the case. The
attorneys are seated. We see them back in to there. There are the

You`re looking at the defense table. That`s Don West. You can see Mark
O`Mara sitting on the other side there. This could be a development, the
jury wanting more questions read back.

It could be, you know, anything up to a verdict. We don`t really know
what`s going on. We don`t have actual intelligence on what`s happening.
But we are going to keep monitoring what`s happening in that courtroom.
This is obviously the story playing out or the weekend.

George Zimmerman charged with second degree murder in the death of Trayvon
Martin, 17-year-old. This happening last February 26, 2012.

We don`t see the judge, Judge Debra Nelson, is not yet in the courtroom.
But there is obviously something developing down in Sanford.

Just a little background on the case, we just had closing arguments in the
case. Bernie de la Rionda for the prosecution, Mark O`Mara then giving the
defense summation, followed by a very emotional presentation by John Guy,
who also give the opening, the F-bomb memorable opening for the

So we are awaiting the six women in this jury, five of whom are white, one
of whom has been described as Hispanic or black or perhaps black Hispanic,
a lot of controversy. This case is very important to residents of Sanford,

Sanford, a town, majority white, about 12 percent African-American. A
population that`s been tense and on edge for over a year since Trayvon
Martin, who was visiting from Miami, was shot by George Zimmerman last

We do have Paul Henderson, former prosecutor, still with us.

Paul, do we have you?

HENDERSON: Yes, I`m here, I`m live, I`m watching.

REID: OK. Paul, do we have any idea what`s going on inside of that
courtroom in Seminole County?

HENDERSON: Well, they`ve come back so quickly. They`ve only been
deliberating for a day since they`ve had the evidence they`re reviewing.
You know, at this point, it`s hard to tell what the decision is or if they
may have a new question for the judge. So, I`m curious to see. It`s
interesting that it`s only been one day.

But keep in mind it`s a weekend and I know there`s a lot of pressure on
this jury to make the decision and move this case along.

REID: We now see George Zimmerman entering the courtroom and going to sit
with his defense team.

And, Paul, in your experience, in terms of prosecuting case, do juries come
back quicker when they`re sequestered, the human nature of wanting it get
on with it and go home?

HENDERSON: There is what pressure. As a prosecutor, you want them to come
back quickly because you got the burden, you presented your case. It`s
usually more helpful than not when the jury comes back quickly. But in a
case like this, there`s so much evidence and there`s so much ambiguity in
terms of the testimony that`s been presented them, it`s a hard guess as to
what`s going to happen and what decision they`re going to make.

But I`m cautiously optimistic based on the job that the prosecution put on
in this case and we`ll see what they have. It may just be a question.
They may not have a decision right now.

REID: All right. Paul Henderson, thank you very much.

And we are watching, of course, the George Zimmerman second degree murder
trial. I want to toss it over to Chris Jansing for more on this breaking




Copyright 2013 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by
United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed,
transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written
permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark,
copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>