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The Ed Show for Sunday, July 21st, 2013

Read the transcript to the Sunday show

July 21, 2013
Guests: Virg Bernero, Wendell Potter, Donna Gentile O`Donnell, Corey
Hebert, Larry Cohen

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. Welcome to THE ED SHOW live
from New York.

It`s 5:00 Eastern. Let`s get to work.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was a difficult and painful decision.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Motor city is running on fumes.

BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS: Great American city, once the engine of

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has been decades and decades in the making.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish there was more outrage over the past 10, 20

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I look at Michigan, I think it`s a good role model for
what D.C. needs to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not the joint --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have police cars that are broken down. Fire
trucks that don`t work. EMS runs that don`t come on time. Garbage that
doesn`t get picked up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do we get better service to citizens?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our citizens are our customer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rick, have you ever heard the expression, the customer
is always right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pension was always there. We always said, we have
plenty of money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know what my future will be now. But get ready
for new Detroit.



SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for watching.

The keyword tonight is surrender. In this broadcast, I want you to take
away that word tonight, because I`m going to show you how Republicans quit,
they give up, they don`t believe, they surrender.

And this man, right here, he is the former CEO of a compute are company.
And today he is the governor of Michigan with all kind ever excuses, lots
of misinformation surrounding the story. I`m setting the record straight
here tonight.

Unfortunately, Rick Snyder is running his state like a corporation. It`s
all about the bottom line, not the people. He thinks he can reinvent
Detroit by making it a better place and putting the city through bankruptcy
which of course is a legal challenge.

I`ll tell what you he is really doing -- he`s swindling public workers out
of their hard-earned pensions. And today, he came up with a grand idea for
the Motor City.


GOV. RICK SNYDER (R), MICHIGAN: One thing I`m proud of that we are
partnering with the federal government, city and state working together is
blight removal. We`re going to be starting to implement a $100 million
program to remove some of those 78,000 blighted structures in Detroit
hopefully within the next 30 days. That`s one of the positive steps.


SCHULTZ: Did he say a hundred million dollars to tear down the city?
That`s his idea of investment?

Rick Snyder will not invest a dime to help the people of Detroit. Instead,
he wants to spend money to destroy the city. This is the beginning of
privatization, my friend. You call in your local buddies when it comes to
construction and have local bulldozers, you know, knock all that stuff down
with federal money, I would imagine.

He wants to bring in bulldozers, or knock down parts of a great American
city, destroy tradition and kind of start over with privatization. Make no
mistake, Detroit, like no other city in this country, I believe exemplifies
just how great this country can be.

You see, when Henry Ford started the automobile industry, he made sure all
of us workers made enough money so they could afford what the heck they
were making. When we were attacked during World War II, what did Detroit
do? Well, they made a shift and make the arsenal of democracy.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Behind locked doors on almost 100 General Motors plant
throughout the countries, lie thousands of secrets, military secrets that
Hitler would give his best hands (INAUDIBLE) to know. Within these plants
is being design and build a large avalanche of weapons would break the back
of the axes. Training men to make, use and maintaining the tools of war is
a primary importance as General Motors makes victory its business.


SCHULTZ: The city, as a culture, of mobilization when called upon. The
people of Detroit, not only saved America from the axis of evil, but they
helped free millions of people across the world from the oppression of
Hitler and Mussolini.

Now, though -- I do believe that back then they were Americans. And I know
damn well today they are still Americans in Detroit. Well, you may say,
wait, Ed, that`s about war.

Hey, wait a minute. We have a jobs crisis in this country. If we care
about black youth, if we care about people of color, if we care about our
economy and growth, we need to care about Detroit and not bring in the

And just a refresher course, after the World War II, Detroit became the
economic engine for the middle class in this country. Cars rolled off the
assembly lines like never before. And you know what people had? They had
a good-paying, union, middle class jobs.

Wait a minute. That damn word in there again, union. Oh, that`s always
the problem, isn`t it?

This went on for decades until Republicans decided that the best policy for
the country was free trade and outsourcing of manufacturing -- outsourcing
of manufacturing.

Former Governor Jennifer Granholm this morning highlighted the consequences
of these policies today.


the most are child for the deindustrialization of America, David. Since
1950, which was the heyday of Detroit`s burgeoning auto industry, there
were almost 300,000 automotive or manufacturing jobs in the city, 300,000.
Today, it`s 27,000. That`s a 90 percent decline in good-paying
manufacturing jobs.


SCHULTZ: So the math doesn`t add up. There is no way that you can lose
300,000 manufacturing jobs and have a sustainable tax base for the city of

Now, ask yourself the question. Could your city survive losing 300,000
jobs over a period of time? And maintain the same tax base? Absolutely
not. Because you see, in the manufacturing factor sector, just like the ag
dollar turning 11 times on main street, in the ag sector, it does, in the
manufacturing sector it does. It affects sales, marketing, it affects
supply line. It affects schools. It affects everything.

The deterioration of the city will take place as the tax base erodes. So
if you are going to have a national policy that outsourcing jobs to foreign
countries because you don`t want to pay people a living wage, this is what
you`re going to get, America. This is just the tipping point if we keep
going in the direction we`re going.

Now, of course, Rick Snyder, CEO governor. You know what he`s dog? He`s
punishing public employees who work their entire life to get the pension
and new they may not get it.

I guarantee you -- a lot of people will be hurting over this. The city
government of Detroit did not outsource these jobs overseas.


SNYDER: This is 60 years of decline. This has been kicking the can down
the road for 60 years. In my perspective on it, enough is enough. I think
there needs to be more accountability in government. Part of the issue
here is -- let`s stand up and deal with this tragic situation and take care
of the citizens.


SCHULTZ: So, he has no responsibility whatsoever in any of this. It`s the
last 60 years. Well, Mr. Snyder, why in the hell did you run for governor?
Why did you tell people before the election that you were going to do
something about Detroit?

Let me bring it to you this way, folks. When you don`t have a plan, that
means you don`t have any guts. Snyder has had no plan for the last three
years for the city of Detroit and now he is blaming everything? Oh, this
has been 60 years in the making. I didn`t hear that on the campaign trail.

Now, I am showing you this chart a lot on THE ED SHOW. When union
membership goes down, so do middle class wages over time. That`s the 60
years I`m talking about, Governor.

Republicans attacking unions, middle class workers going with the policy of
free trade, and course, leaving a great American city, which was the
pentacle of manufacturing in America, oh, just shove them down the toilet
and don`t worry. They are just a bunch of black folks anyway.

This is your America.

Meanwhile, instead of saving Detroit, Snyder wants to bulldoze. He wants
to bulldoze it. He is shredding the people of Detroit Michigan like they
are just numbers on a balance sheet. This guy thinks that demolishing a
city is reinventing it. And he is dead wrong.

So tonight, OK, enough bitching. I`m going to gift governor of Michigan
the Ed plan. I`m going to save Detroit here in the next few minutes.

And you know how I`m going to do it? I`m going to do it with federal
dollars. You know why? Because we did it to Baghdad. We did it in
Kandahar. We did some nation building.

We got to do some nation building right here. And the first city on the
map is going to be Detroit. First no city will survive unless citizens
feel safe.

I`m in charge. I`m Ed Schultz. Instead of slashing public services,
Detroit is going to get thousands more police officers and firefighters.
You know who`s going to pay for it? The American taxpayers because we are
going to reinvigorate the spirit in America this we can get it done.

Second thing, ruler Schultz is going to do, Detroit needs to make a major
investment in education. Every child needs an opportunity to advance. And
the only way to do this is to have total commitment to education.

Don`t shut down schools. Open them back up. Is it going to take money?
Yes, it is.

Third, I have a Republican idea here. This is kind of my bipartisan thing
here. Should Detroit do this? Should they give any company who relocates
to the city a tax-exempt status for the next 10 years? Yes.

The city knows how to make things. It is in the culture. Manufacturing`s
in its DNA. The people of Detroit will be able to reinvent manufacturing
for the 21st century.

Now it is going to take billions to do this, to make this happen. The
federal government needs to help. We`ve done it before. We can do it
again. When did we do it, Ed?

Well, I`ll tell you, since you`re asking at home. We bailed out Wall
Street after criminal unethical and deregulated practices trashed our
economy. We saved the automobile industry when they needed help. But it
was a loan. They are paying it back.

And American`s automobile industry is where, it`s better than ever. You
mean we can actually do this? Detroit built this country.

And I think Congress needs to step up and cut this city and this state a
check and make it a model so every American knows that it can be done. But
instead, what the Republicans are giving us is nothing but surrender.
That`s their policy.

Every politician who puts their hand on the Bible and takes the oath of
office has a duty to this city and the manufacturing in this country. That
means you, Republicans. You love to run around and wave the flag and tell
us how you support the troops.

How about supporting American workers? The GOP loves to talk about
patriotism and just how much they love America. I think it is time
Republicans step up and prove to us that they don`t have their head in the
sand and they do love this country and they care about all people.

Now, at the beginning of this, I said that there`s a lot of misinformation.
Let me just say this about cronyism. If you want it get detailed, you can
find cronyism in any city government in this country. And this idea that,
well it`s been under rule and city leaders for years, that`s true. That is
very true.

That`s why there were good wages, there were good pensions, there were good
healthcare programs. There were things that people had earned. In city,
fathers knew that they earned it. But the outside external pressures of
outsourcing and free trade brought on by Republicans and some Democrats
that put Detroit at the pentacle of this problem in America.

It is n the local city government as the fault of what is happening in
Detroit. It is an American policy that stopped believing in workers. It
is an American policy that said, well, manufacturing is really not that
important. And Detroit is the first city to pay the price.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question -- are Republicans happy to see Detroit go bankrupt?

Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622. You can always go to our blog at We`re bringing the result later on in the show.

Let me just say this: Detroit is the result of Republican policy when you
don`t believe in workers, when you don`t want to invest in communities and
when you start picking and choosing neighborhoods like Rahm Emmanuel is
doing in Chicago.

I offer to you tonight that this is, God dang it, it can`t be the
beginning! But I`m afraid it is.

For more, let`s turn to the mayor of Lansing, Michigan, Virg Bernero, who
ran against Rick Snyder and lost in that election.

Also with us is MSNBC political analyst, Dr. Michael Eric Dyson.
Gentlemen, great to have you with us tonight.



SCHULTZ: Virg, you ran against Snyder for governor. Did you guys talk
about Detroit?

BERNERO: It came up quite a bit.

Ed, let me say -- your opening practically brought a tear to my eye. You
are a national treasure and workers through the state of Michigan owe you a
debt of gratitude for talking sense. This is the most sensible approach
I`ve seen so far, to the problem of Detroit.

But, yes, the problem of Detroit came up, we both agreed over and over
again that Detroit was Michigan`s first leading city. Failure was not an
option. That we had to make Detroit work, that Detroit was the face of
Michigan. And we would be job one to wring back jobs to the state and in
particular to Detroit.

I got to tell you, with all due respect to the governor, this is not sour
grapes. Until this bankruptcy, we haven`t seen any action in Detroit.
There has not been a focus on Detroit.

The governor who over and over again said everything he did would be seen
through the prism of how many jobs, it created for the state, I don`t know
of one job he brought to Detroit. In fact, the first thing he did is
destroy the movie credit which was bringing movies and businesses, studios
were being built in the Detroit area. And he wiped that out as job one.

SCHULTZ: He has no plan for Detroit. He has no plan and now he is blaming
it on the last 60 years. I think that`s very profound.

BERNERO: Exactly.

SCHULTZ: Michael, what about -- we did something for Wall Street. Why
can`t -- isn`t there a Main Street in Detroit that we can help? What about
this? Is race an issue in this?

DYSON: Absolutely, right, Ed. I want to first say I join in with the
Mayor Virg there, because your opening sermon was so powerful and
appropriate here on this Sunday when we are dealing with such serious and
somber issues.

I am a native of Detroit. I spent the first 21 years of my life in
Detroit. I love Detroit. I just received from Dr. Wendell Anthony and
NAACP who`s doing extraordinary work there and talked to Mayor Dave Bing.
This is a city worth saving and we`ve got to do it.

Of course, as 85 percent black city. It`s been perceived as a colony of
black people who are ringed by suburban white areas now going into the city
to plunder it. The perception is that there is a massive take over of
resources and materials and properties and basically being occupied. So we
have to acknowledge that part of this has to be the racial animus that has
characterized that city the last 50-some-odd years.

And, look, the shift from manufacturing to service industries hemorrhages
jobs in the city, depleted that city of its economic infrastructure and
left it to its own fate. The government should be investing that hundred
million dollars into the city and your plan that -- he wants to use to
destroy it and your plan --

SCHULTZ: We can do this.

DYSON: Of course. It`s doable. You have to have a will.

SCHULTZ: We know how to write checks. Whatever happened to believing in
American workers?

And, Virg, was this Snyder`s plan all along?

BERNERO: Well, I hope not. But there was neglect. I`m telling you, after
saying it was going to be job one, from a guy who is supposedly from the
corporate sector, who knows business, I`ve done more economic development
in my city than I`ve seen the governor do it. Other governors are in the
trenches. Bringing in jobs.

Where are the jobs? Where was the plant?

During the campaign, I talked about the exact thing you are talking about -
- providing incentive, giving companies a reason to relocate in Detroit.
Make it in Detroit for things. We know how to make things.

We made the things that make America great. Instead, we allow Detroit to
be the hole of the donut instead of the hub of the wheel. Most of our
cities in Michigan are hallowed out. They are dying on the vine. It is
few exceptions that are surviving and there is no urban agenda in this


BERNERO: There is no plan. And when your cities are going down, the state
is going to down.

SCHULTZ: This needs federal help and it needs congressional action and we
need to pick and choose sides on this, because I know where the Republicans
will be. The Republicans are going to say, no, we`re not going to do that.
We`re for privatization and this is where we have to go.

Virg, we`re going to visit again on this. I appreciate you being with us.

Michael Eric Dyson, stay with us.

Next up, as Republicans vote for 39th time to repeal Obamacare, the House
speaker says there is more to come. That is going to be next with our
rapid response panel. They`re going to weigh in.

Stay with us. We`re right back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black on black crime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black on black violence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back on black crime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black on black murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black on black crime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black on black crime.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Black on black crime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black on black crime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should the African-American community focus on that,
the black on black crime, carnage in our inner cities and not on George


SCHULTZ: Now, was there something going on at FOX where they all happen it
say black on black crime? This very same conservatives complaining that
President Obama injected race into the discussion over the death of Trayvon
Martin are now making the claim that we in the media ignore the issue of
black on black crime.

I refuse to ignore black on black crime or any crime, because conservatives
aren`t telling the whole story. Majority of murders are between people of
the same race. That`s right, 94 percent of black victims were killed by
black offenders.

But wait a minute -- 86 percent of white victims were killed by white
offenders. What is going on here?

My friends, there`s a distortion of facts going on that breeds the same
kind of fear-based profiling which led George Zimmerman to follow Trayvon
Martin in 2012. It`s the same rhetoric that had FOX News hosts
anticipating riots instead of protests in the wake of the Zimmerman

This is exactly the kind of rhetoric President Obama was asking us, as a
nation, to examine. What really gets me though is conservatives aren`t
bringing up black on black crime calling for justice. There is no outrage
over racial disparity and incarceration rates in this country. A black
male born in 2001 has 32 percent chance of spending more, some forcing of
his time, and life in prison. White male born the same year has just 6
percent chance.

Now conservatives aren`t exactly rolling up their sleeves and addressing
the lack of economic opportunity in black communities in America, are they?
They aren`t outrages when the Republicans bought President Obama`s job act
or when House Republicans voted to cut food assistance programs. They are
not talking about schools being closed in Chicago or communities that node
them the most.

They are not addressing Republicans refusal it pass gun safety legislation
supported by the majority of people in this country. No. Conservatives--
if conservatives are going to act outraged by figures on black on black
crime they need to be outraged by factors contributing to the problem.

And I think they are part of the problem, the way they tell it to the
American people.

Michael Eric Dyson back with us it note for the discussion. Also joining
us, Joy Reid.

Always great to have you both.


SCHULTZ: Joy, in your opinion is rampant black on black crime just a myth?

REID: Well, you know, all of this discussion from the right -- and, you
know, Ed, first of all, black people are not disabused of this notion that
these conservatives on FOX or elsewhere care at all on black on black crime
or victims of the same. So, they are saying this to deflect from the
fundamental issue because the reality is, is that killers, criminals,
murderers, tend to operate within their own geographic space.

So that a spree killer like an Adam Lanza will operate within the community
where he lives. So, he wouldn`t go into a black community and kill
children in a preschool there. He stays local and does it in his own
community. We don`t talk about white on white crime when we talk about
white people killing other white people, always talk about it with African-

SCHULTZ: Michael, your response to that narrative tape, it seems like they
are on a mission.

DYSON: Well, of course. And I mean, they are ignoring what you put out
and ignoring what Joy Reid so eloquently articulated, and that is the fact
that people kill where they live. If you want integrated killing, you have
integrated communities. If you want us to cross lines and engaged in
nefarious activities of stealing and robbing and other mayhem, then you
have those communities that are integrated. People are limited.

Thieves, murderers and others don`t have big budgets, they usually go for
local work, which means they kill people they know. People harm people
they have met, for the most part. And people within their circumnavigated

So, the reality is, is that FOX News tried to pump up the volume on black
on black crime. They aren`t worried about it, because they don`t want to
talk about the source of it.

SCHULTZ: I think their narrative of black on black crime is connective of
letting Detroit go bankrupt. It is just a bunch of black kids doing it to
one another. And we really -- it`s really slowing down society. I think
it all ties in together. I believe that.

Joy, your son asked a tough question in an op-ed this weekend. Tell us it.

REID: Well, you know, my son, Jamar, who is 16 years old, walks a verdict
with his dad, brother and sister like a lot of people did, the Zimmerman
verdict. And his reaction to it was, wow, because he was surprised. He
actually thought Zimmerman would be convicted. In his mind following and
shooting a black kid should mean you go to jail.

And he felt afterwards that it devalued his own life, life of people like
him. My son doesn`t operate in an all black context. His best friend is
white. He goes around at community and lives in and goes to school with
kids of all races.

But now, he sort of feels singled out, like me, as a young black man, this
is him, saying that I`m less valuable. That the law won`t treat someone
who shots and kills someone like the way they would someone else.

SCHULTZ: And if we invest in Detroit, it changes the focus of how we care
about the youth of this country. That`s why I think these stories are very
much connected.

President Obama took a lot of heat from Tavis Smiley this morning. Your
thoughts on that, Dr. Dyson. Has President Obama done enough on the race
issue? Has he addressed it enough?

DYSON: Well, look, obviously we always want more. You know what we want
to hear from President Obama because he is a smart guy on race. He wrote
one of the greatest books on racial identity in America called "Dreams from
My Father."

So, you don`t want Michael Jordan in the White House and not talk about
basketball. You don`t want Barack Obama in the White House and not talk
about race.

The reality is however, the consequences of his discourse, have been from
the far right wing assault and look, Tavis Smiley is a friend of mine, I
love him. But I think that Tavis and his buddy, Dr. West, have ventured in
to hateration.

Even the legitimate comments of criticism that they might offer have been
filtered through the prism of such personal animus and they can`t see the
larger landscape and they never acknowledge the good that might be done.
And I think that reality is, Tavis is wonderful. I think he`s right in
giving us more, but the president has offered some, now we`ve got to ask
for more because he is such a powerful source of insight about race in

SCHULTZ: Michael Eric Dyson, Joy Reid, thanks so much for being on THED
SHOW on this Sunday. I appreciate it.

The Big Apple get`s a break on insurance premiums. The rapid response
panel on how Obamacare is working and how Republicans are trying to stop

Plus, McConnell and Corker, a love story.


SCHULTZ: But next, I`m taking your questions. "Ask Ed Live," just ahead,
stay with us.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. We love hearing from our viewers.
That`s why this is my favorite segment.

Tonight in the "Ask Ed Segment", our first question comes from Kathy
Schertz. "Why is the GOP so against the poor and middle class?"

Well this is just my opinion and I do believe it in a big way. This is
about the concentration of money and the concentration of political power
in this country. And if the middle class becomes a viable political force,
it is going to be really tough for the wealthy in this country to drive the

This is why the Koch brothers are so advanced in going after workers. This
is why ALEC is a part of writing legislation that attacks institutions that
made this country great because those very institutions will have political
prowess and they will be able to fight back against the wealthy and
concentration of wealth in this country.

So that is why the GOP is so against the poor and middle class. Not to
mention, they love to privatize everything. They think privatization is
the key to the success of this country. And as a Democrat, as a liberal, I
simply cannot good along with that.

Our next question comes from some guy who calls himself peek-a-boo. All
right, peek-a-boo. "How can you blame GOP policies in Detroit when Dems
had control for 50 years?"

You know what, there isn`t a city in this country that could lose 300,000
manufacturing jobs and stay the same with the same tax base. We covered
this in the first segment of the program.

The bottom line is, these Democrats in control of Detroit, they believed in
fair wages. They believed in healthcare. They believed in pensions, and
they made shower a living wage was important because that`s the culture of
the city. That`s what Henry Ford was all about.

Henry ford was a leader. He was an icon. He was a manufacturer. He was a
financier. He believed that American workers were important. That`s why
he paid them.

So the culture of the city moves forward. So does the culture of the
country with outsourcing and Republican policies and the free markets.
Detroit was just the first city to pay the price. No, this is all because
of Republican policy.

You see, the Democrats in Detroit, they care about you after you`re born.

There`s a lot more coming up in THE ED SHOW. Stick around.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obamacare. Tornado. Obamacarenado. Just when you
thought it was safe to go to the doctor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nearly 7 million Americans could lose their employer-
based plans.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rising tide of healthcare costs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Many people have seen higher premiums.


SCHULTZ: Well, it is helping the advertising market, that`s for sure.

Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

Republicans are running out of time to destroy Obamacare. So, now, they
are hoping that new lies and lame commercials will do the trick.

This week, House Republicans tried to pick apart Obamacare so they could
delay health coverage for millions of Americans. Once again, the
Republicans failed to stop the Affordable Health Care. The Republicans
have now tried or either repealed to dismember Obamacare 39 times. House
Speaker John Boehner said this morning he plans to go for number 40.


REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We should not be judged on
how many new laws we create. We ought to be judged on how many laws that
we repeal.


SCHULTZ: Yes. We shouldn`t be judged by how many people we let fall by
the way side and get sick and die or get sick and good bankrupt trying to
stay healthy. We don`t care about them. We don`t want to be judge on

Republicans have been promising to repeal or replace Obamacare for the last
three years and they still can`t get it done. Maybe because people want

Let`s get reaction from our rapid response panel, Donna Gentile O`Donnell,
and Dr. Corey Hebert and Wendell Potter.

Wendell, why do they keep doing this? I mean, is this just an effort to
keep people from signing up for Obamacare when it comes on October 1st?

political. They want to do this for political purposes. They want to
spread fear, uncertainty and doubt and get people to vote for more

That`s exactly what the end game here. It`s not that they care so much
about repealing a law as it is about trying to get people to agree with
them and to elect their colleagues come 2014.

SCHULTZ: So they think that this is all about keeping the House, getting
the Senate, that they can convince the American people that this is just a
big boondoggle and it`s not going to help them with the way facts are
bearing out right now. That is it the political play here.

POTTER: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: Donna, will Obamacare kill jobs?

help jobs. But I think, Ed, you made an awfully important point in the
early part of the show, the demonization of unions has contributed mightily
to so many people don`t have healthcare. That that used to be the
foundation for making sure that you had covered lives. And now, we have
jobs that don`t sustain families and benefits that don`t take care of

So, you know, there is a moral obligation to participate in a meaningful
way, whether it`s creating jobs or taking care of the healthcare needs of
people that are -- our next door neighbors, I just don`t -- I don`t get it.

SCHULTZ: The moral component, no question is missing on the Republican
side. Dr. Hebert, Karl Rove has an ad out and he claims Obamacare is going
to will create a bunch of paperwork. You, as a doctor, is this true? I
mean, is this going to mire the entire medical community in paperwork,
where it was just so overloaded that services would be worse?

DR. COREY HEBERT, CEO, BLACKHEALTHY.COM: What the Republicans want people
to think is, Obama don`t care. But the reality is that they have Obamacare
and they`re going to take it and they`re going to like it.

And this is the problem. I mean, in New York right now, we know that you
know that a lot of people have gotten a lot of cheaper lot cheaper
healthcare in the last couple of days. And think about this, the woman who
actually now can afford healthcare, can now actually have healthcare and
not be denied because she was a victim of domestic violence.

That is what Obamacare means. You know, we can`t go back and forth and
make people think they are scared to have Obamacare. This is not
protecting poor people or rich people. This is protecting people out there
that work everyday, like you out there listening.

So you need to make sure that you protect your middle class concept of what
reality is and not just go on and on thinking that Obamacare is scary. It
will save your life.

SCHULTZ: It is. And you brought up a very interesting point, which is
rapid response panel here. Republicans, they just seem to be struggling
with the math again. The New York announced health exchange premiums will
drop about 50 percent for the average consumer. Republicans launched an
immediate attack ad and said the cuts were false.

Democratic-led California is celebrating more affordable healthcare
premiums while Republicans in Ohio are complaining that we are still
waiting for Chris Christie to release the Obamacare premiums for his state.

Wendell, will premiums go down? Is this a fact of life for consumers at
that their premiums will go down?

POTTER: For most Americans who buy coverage for the individual market,
yes, they will go down in New York and almost every other state. And for
people who get their coverage to the workplace, they won`t be affected in
any way. They will continue to get their coverage the way they have in the

But for those many millions who can`t get coverage at all because of being
blackballed by insurance companies and being charged far too much in the
past, they can finally get coverage they can afford.

SCHULTZ: Well, it`s going to be interesting. After October 1st, all the
way to the midterms to see how this battle continues on. Donna, will
Republican governors be forced to sign on because of all of the positives?

I mean, when you get health insurance to someone through Obamacare, how in
the world could you ever take it away from them? How could a politician
governor go out on the stump and say, you know what, you have healthcare
and I`m taking it away from me and that`s better?

O`DONNELL: I think Republican governors are going to be very hard pressed
to make that argument. They are facing resistance within their states.
Covertly, I think there are some governors that are trying to figure out
how to get the benefit of being against Obamacare and yet engage Obamacare.

So, there is cognitive dissonance among Republican governors recognizing
that there`s real financial value for states. But feeling compelled to
hold up this ideological approach which is just inconsistent with the
benefits for their constituents.

SCHULTZ: Dr. Hebert, how will people in Republican states suffer if their
governors do not sign on to Obamacare?

HEBERT: Well, it happens. The individuals are going to suffer, because
they will have to get their own healthcare and pay lots and lots of money
for it. But even the hospitals will suffer, because the hospital is taking
care of an uninsured patient, they have to suck all of that expense up and
they have to pass that on to someone. And that someone is going to be the
middle class.

So you have to understand that when governors don`t give the money to
states for Obamacare, they`re going to cause a lot of problems for a lot of
people and lot of institutions in the United States. That`s really not

As a doctor, my job is to make shower that people are taken care of. A lot
of doctors don`t like Obamacare because it may decrease a small amount of
the salary. But reality is that I am in this because I`m an altruistic
person that wants to take care of my fellow man. And I`ve got to do it.

I will break this stuff down, man. I make it ridiculously simple so people
can understand Obama care. You got to make it that way so people aren`t

SCHULTZ: Well, I`ve read that. It`s very interesting. You do it in two
sections. We`re going to spend more time on that on another show.

Dr. Hebert, thanks so much. Donna Gentile O`Donnell and Wendell Potter,
great to have you with us on THE ED SHOW.

Tonight in our survey I ask you, are Republicans happy to see Detroit go
bankrupt? Eighty-eight percent of you say yes, 12 percent of you say no.

Up next, Keystone State Republicans celebrate their voter suppression
tactics. Stay tuned.


SCHULTZ: And in our pretenders tonight. Chairman of the Pennsylvania
Republican Party Rob Gleason.

Remember 2012 back then when the Republican Party tried its darndest to
steal the election? Pennsylvania led the charge by undercutting minority,
elderly and low income voters with strict new voter ID laws? Even though
there was exactly zero documented cases of voter fraud in the state of
Pennsylvania, these proposed laws had one purpose and it wasn`t to protect
any votes.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to
win the state of Pennsylvania -- done.



SCHULTZ: Pennsylvania House leader Mike Turzai could not have put it any
better. Republicans tried to walk back the statement but couldn`t keep
their mouths shout for long. Meet Rob Gleason, also known as Captain


ROB GLEASON, PENNSYLVANIA GOP: We probably had a better election. Think
about this. We cut Obama by 5 percent, which was big. You know, a lot of
people cited that. He won. He beat McCain by 10 percent. He only beat
Romney by 5 percent. I think probably that voter ID had helped a bit in


SCHULTZ: Oh. So, in their mind, they are making progress. Gleason says
dirty tricks cut votes not Romney`s superb campaign. Tell us something we
don`t know.

Now, Gleason is telling the truth. But if he thinks that gives him or his
party any credibility, he can just keep on pretending.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

This is a story for the folks who take a shower after work.

Harry Reid`s threat to employ the nuclear option in the Senate made
Republican basically attacked each other behind closed doors. When Mitch
McConnell was begging the caucus not to give the National Labor Relations
Board, it had members of his own party swearing up a storm. According to
"Roll Call," Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee got so frustrated with
McConnell`s interpretation of events, that he called B.S. loud enough for
the entire room to hear. McConnell lost his argument, and President Obama
finally got some of his nominees, people he wanted to work for him for a
long time.

But as Senator Bernie Sanders said on my radio show this week, it`s not


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: I think the issue is how do we deal with
the overall dysfunctionality of the United States Senate, where the
enormous problems in our country, the high unemployment, the growing gap
between the wealthy and every else issue a climate change, the fact that
many kids can`t afford to go to college right now, crumbling
infrastructure, all the issues that you and I talked about, we`re not
getting real resolutions to these issues, because to pass anything in the
United States Senate right now requires 60 votes and the Republicans are
abusing the filibuster privilege and they are demanding 60 votes on
virtually every issue, and I think we have to rethink that process.


SCHULTZ: Senator Sanders, spot on, no doubt. This is not real filibuster
taxpayer reform, President Obama may have gotten the employees he wanted,
but we are far from moving the agenda forward, you know, the agenda the
American people voted for twice.

For more, I`m joined by Larry Cohen, who is the president of the
Communications Workers of America.

Larry, this is progress, is it not? I mean, the National Labor Relations
Board is filled out. it is now legally functioning, correct?

will happen. We need Senate action Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday before
they adjourn. We expect that, I think it is a step forward as you said.

But as Bernie Sanders said, we still don`t have a Senate that can`t adjourn
without 60 votes. It can`t name a conference committee without 60 votes.
It can`t talk about anything at all without 60 votes. That`s not

SCHULTZ: Did Harry Reid do the right thing by threatening all of this?
Should he have done more or is there round two of this?

COHEN: I think round two will come. Harry Reid`s problem is having 51
votes, or 50 votes plus the vice president. And he has members of that
caucus that don`t want to change anything. And our democracy initiative,
our broad coalition of 80 groups, with 15 million members, will stay on
them, because we need change, regardless of which party is in there.

This is not what kids learn in fifth grade civics, and we deserve to have a
democracy in this country for the 21st century.

SCHULTZ: What do you says of Democrats like Mark Pryor of Arkansas, also,
surprisingly, Carl Levin of Michigan, who is described as a traditionalist
in the Senate, that doesn`t want to dink around with the rules.

COHEN: Well, I think Senator Levin is not running again. Senator Pryor is
and I actually believe Senator Pryor was prepared to vote for the small
procedural motion that would have allowed the president`s nominees as
Article 2 of the Constitution provides to get an up or down vote based on
the majorities.

Article 2 provides 2/3, super majorities for treaties, and for overriding
the president`s veto, but a majority to confirm a president who spent two
years campaigning to confirm his nominees. And I think that that`s the
question in this case, why do four of the five Democrats to that caucus get
shaky needs over a simple procedural motion that would have allowed this
president to have his nominees confirmed, just like the 43 before him?

SCHULTZ: Do you think this sent a message to the Democrats, you better
wake up before the mid-term?

COHEN: I think labor, business, Democrats from groups like Common Cause,
small D, democrats and many more, people fighting for closures, financial
reformers, we`re all banded together here in the democracy initiative. We
will continue to be.

We join together because of Cordray and McCarthy and Perez as well as the
NLRB nominees. But that coalition will continue on, somewhat inspired,
gaining some momentum, but as you said and Bernie Sanders said, it`s time
the Senate is able to debate the issues of the day and not hide from them.

SCHULTZ: Well, there is a number of issues where the Democrats have had
the majority, the majority of votes in the Senate. And I`m talking about
jobs. And how frustrating is that for you and how much has it hurt the
economy? I mean, the jobs filibuster that has repeatedly filibustered by
the Republicans. How much of an effect do you think that that has one the
economy, despite the fact we have had 40 months of private sector job

COHEN: Disastrous effect on the economy and we are talking jobs bill, a
much stronger health care bill, that would have had every employer
providing health care, paying a substantial penalty when they dump health
care. We`re talking about the Disclose Act, that would have shown us where
does the money in politics come from?

We`re talking about the DREAM Act, for kids who grow up in this country
without much hope. It`s on and on. All of these, the Employee Free Choice
Act, the provided a substantially higher floor on workers rights.

They all had majority support in the 111th congress, and none of them ever
got discussed. And it goes on and on today, as you said, in terms of the

SCHULTZ: Yet the Democrats could get so much done if they were to change
the rules but they`re afraid of the future. That`s the bottom ne. They`re
afraid if the power ever shifts it would be the wrath of the conservative
movement which would really hurt the country, is that the right move?

COHEN: It`s not the right move, because Republicans will do it on day one,
in January of any year, where they`re in the majority. They said it this
week that they`re going to do it. The question is, why Democrats don`t
lead? That`s what we need.

SCHULTZ: So, fight for the country. Whose side are you on to fight for
the country? The workers, the corporations, the Republicans clearly are
going to go for the jugular, if they ever get the chance.

Harry Reid, this is your time. Democrats we need to have you with us
tonight. Thanks so much.

That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. We`ll see you back here next
Saturday, 5:00 Eastern. Have a great one.



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