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'The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell' for Tuesday, July 30th, 2013

Read the transcript to the Tuesday show

July 30, 2013
Guests: Megan Fleming; Bradley Manning; Steve Clemons

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, HOST: Today was round two of Rand Paul versus
Chris Christie. Now guess which one used fact his in his argument? And
which one was able to keep his argument completely fact-free?


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Most Washington politicians only
care about bringing home the bacon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two big name Republicans locked in a nasty feud.

CHRISTIE: I have nothing personal against Senator Paul.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It all started with New Jersey Chris Christie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris Christie took a shot at Rand Paul.

CHRISTIE: His response seems that he has something personal against
me, but that`s OK.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: If he cared about protecting the
country, maybe he wouldn`t be in this gimme, gimme, gimme.

CHRISTIE: Having gimme, gimme, gimme attitude towards federal

PAUL: The way we defend our country is by being frugal.

CHRISTIE: Maybe he should start look in cutting the pork barrel
spending that he brings home to Kentucky.

MARTIN BASHIR, MSNBC ANCHOR: A Republican love story, not so much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A military judge has found Bradley Manning not

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bob Filner asked the city Monday to pay Filner`s
legal bills.

ideas. We`re just lacking action, and especially out of Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We lead off with the president.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president will be at an Amazon warehouse in
Chattanooga, Tennessee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hillary Clinton and Vice President Joe Biden just
finishing up a morning breakfast.

about this.

CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: If you thought we would do a whole show without
mentioning Anthony Weiner, think again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are things going for him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he has invalidated himself.

WEINER: I think I`ve pretty much said what I have to say about that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anthony Weiner is still running for mayor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not about, you know, rising yourself up,
and taking a picture of it and sending it to a few girls.

WEINER: Polls don`t stop the election.

There are a lot of people who are saying a lot of things about this

CONAN O`BRIEN, COMEDIAN: Anthony Weiner`s campaign manager quit.

WEINER: I think I have said pretty much everything I have to say
about that.

O`BRIEN: Weiner didn`t give him a severance, but he did offer him a



O`DONNELL: The feud between Republicans Rand Paul and Chris Christie
is getting hotter. Last night, Rand Paul brought his gimme, gimme, gimme
tirade against New Jersey Governor Chris Christie to FOX News.


PAUL: It`s really I think kind of sad and cheap that he would use the
cloak of 9/11 victims and say, oh, I`m the only one who cares about these
victims. Hogwash! If he really cared about protecting this country, maybe
he wouldn`t be doing this gimme, gimme, gimme, give me all the money you
have in Washington or don`t have, and he`s be a little more fiscally
responsible, and know the way we defend the country, the way we have enough
money for national defense is by being frugal, and not by saying, gimme,
gimme, gimme all the time.


O`DONNELL: After Rand Paul said that, I turn the gimme, gimme, gimme
argument around and aimed at Rand Paul last night.


O`DONNELL: For every dollar in tax revenue that New Jersey sends to
Washington, it gets back only 77 cents, where does 22 cents go? To Rand
Paul`s Kentucky and other states. Think of them as gimme states, if you
will, who take much more from the federal government than they ever pay for
in federal tax revenue.

For every dollar, Rand Paul`s Kentucky sends to Washington, Kentucky
gets back $1.57.

Chris Christie might be seeking the electoral votes of Rand Paul`s
gimme, gimme, gimme state some day. So, he will probably use a different
line of defense against Rand Paul`s gimme, gimme, gimme nonsense.


O`DONNELL: I was so wrong, not about the dollars and cents. But
about Chris Christie. He went there today.


CHRISTIE: Senator Paul wants to start looking at where he is going to
cut spending to afford defense? Maybe he should start and look at cutting
the pork barrel spending that he brings home to Kentucky, at $1.51 for
every dollars, and not look at New Jersey where we get 61 cents per dollar.

So, maybe Senator Paul could deal with that when he`s trying to deal
with the reduction of spending on the federal side, but I doubt he would,
because most Washington politicians only care about bringing home the bacon
so that they can get reelected.


O`DONNELL: And Rand Paul foolishly talked about bacon.


PAUL: This is the king of bacon talking about bacon. You know, we
have two military bases in Kentucky. And is Governor Chris Christie
recommending we shut down the military bases? He wants to be this great
champion of the national defense? What does he want to do, shut down the
military bases?

He is making a big mistake picking a fight with other Republicans,
because the Republican Party is shrinking in New England and in Northeast
part of our country. I`m the one trying to grow the party by talking about
libertarian ideas of privacy in the Internet and attacking me isn`t helping
the party. He`s hurting the party.


O`DONNELL: Two military bases in Kentucky, wow, that will shut down
Chris Christie.

Rand Paul obviously doesn`t know that New Jersey has eight military
bases, six more than Kentucky. But even that`s not enough for New Jersey
to actually make a profit from the federal government the way Kentucky

Chris Christie thinks that Rand Paul`s thoroughly ignorant attacks on
him have turned personal. And that`s OK with Chris Christie.


CHRISTIE: I got nothing personal against Senator Paul. If we
disagree on certain issues, we disagree. His response seems that he has
something personal against me, but that`s OK, just get in line on that


O`DONNELL: Joining me now is former White House Press Secretary and
MSNBC contributor Robert Gibbs. And MSNBC analyst and McCain-Palin
presidential campaign senior adviser, Steve Schmidt.

So, Robert Gibbs, obviously, Chris Christie has got nothing personal
against Rand Paul here.

ROBERT GIBBS, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I feel like we just walked into the
cafeteria on "Animal House" and Bluto just yelled food fight. It seems to
be what we sort of stepped into the middle of it. I think you will see
with increasing frequency this happened as Republicans work through
personality issues and get towards picking a voice on who will lead their
party through 2014, 2015 and ultimately the nomination in 2016.

O`DONNELL: Steve Schmidt, Chris Christie cherry-picked his numbers a
little bit. He used the 2005 numbers instead of the 2010 numbers because
they look a little better in this argument for New Jersey. And that was
the difference between my numbers and Chris Christie`s numbers.

But I was very, very surprised, Steve, because as I said last night,
the profiteers states, the give me, give me, give me states as Rand Paul
would call them, happen to include Iowa, New Hampshire, Florida, South
Carolina, exactly where you got to start off your presidential campaign and
that line -- for Chris Christie is not going to work in those states.

STEVE SCHMIDT, MSNBC ANALYST: Well, who knows if it works or doesn`t
work in the states? I think that what works for Chris Christie, you saw it
play out, Lawrence, is the absolute fearlessness in talking about these
issues. You see him standing behind the podium. He is a major league
political talent and I think he manhandled Rand Paul over the last two days
in this debate.

It`s starting very, very early. I think both these men are going to
run for president. I don`t think Rand Paul looked to great in the last two
days, seemed a little mealy mouthed to me.

As you look at what happens between the libertarian party, the
establishment wing, the conservative wing of the party, we`re going to have
a monumental debate for the future of the party. And I think these two
will be at the center of it.

O`DONNELL: Robert, Steve makes a very good point about the character
of Chris Christie`s reply, is I`m going to stand here and fight, and maybe
the details in those numbers aren`t going to be what matters to the voters
in South Carolina.

And he does have an issue. I think that probably most Republicans out
there in those primary states believe that New Jersey is some kind of drain
on the federal treasury.

GIBBS: Right. Well, look, even if you -- earlier in that clip, you
know, he says this started because I was asked a question and I just --
when people ask me questions I just give plain, simple answers. I think
that is why Steve talks about him being such a major league talent.

He was also quick in that press conference to say I think several
times, I don`t represent Washington, I`m not in Washington. You know, he
has walked away from being Washington.

So Steve also said, this is the beginning of the -- the argument that
we`ll see that I think will play out for quite sometime, and that is
conservatives and libertarians, and where they clash on certain issues,
particularly around national security and privacy. And a lot of things I
think that will be interesting to watch play out over the next two years.

O`DONNELL: I want to play something that the last Paul presidential
candidate said in a Republican debate when asked about foreign aid and
specifically foreign aid to Israel. Let`s listen to that.


MODERATOR: Congressman Paul, would you cut aid to Israel?

aid, I would treat everybody equally and fairly.


O`DONNELL: So, Steve Schmidt, that is part of why Ron Paul ended up
with 8 percent, I think vote and delegates going into the Republican
convention. And as long -- and Rand Paul is saying for things like
hurricane aid, Sandy aid to New Jersey, they should have just taken it out
of foreign aid to pay for it. That is where the Paul family always goes
for the money.

But that`s also the kind of approach in Republican primary that leaves
you in the end with nothing really to trade on at a convention.

SCHMIDT: No, look, at the end of the someday, if you`re running to be
commander-in-chief in a difficult, dangerous complex world -- talking about
ending foreign aid for every country in the world just displays a stunning
naivete about America`s role in the world. And I think there is a
consensus in both parties that that is the idea that is pretty far field
from the main stream of American politics.

I mean, Rand Paul`s top strategic challenge is to the degree to have
he is able to distance himself from his father. But if he is going to run
as a Diet Coke version of the old man he is going to have a very, very
difficult time in a Republican primary. He is trying to mainstream
himself. He had a very difficult month with the wacko who was on his
staff, the Southern Avenger, and if you`re running for president you can`t
carry people like that with you in close proximity. It`s simply

So, I think he`s had a very, very rough month. I don`t think he look
particularly sharp in the exchanges with Christie. It will be interesting
to see if he has the talent to play at the level that he is seeking to go
to next.

O`DONNELL: Well, you know, Robert, I have to say I thought Ron Paul
in the primary debates when you got into the foreign policy stuff he was
very well-grounded. It was within the American political orthodoxy, rather
radical position that he would advance. But he did really know what he was
talking about.

I don`t get that feeling when Rand Paul ventures into the territories,
he feels like he is a much shakier public speaker than his father was.

GIBBS: Well, I think, you know, it`s going to be interesting to watch
this evolution, because maybe partly what goes through his mind when he
gets these questions is understanding exactly what Steve says.

O`DONNELL: Yes, he is trying to do the calculations like his father
never to do.

GIBBS: Yes, he is trying to just run into the breach, it is clear
when you watch Rand Paul understanding if he gets way too far out on this,
his father on national security, he is never going to broaden his base,
he`s never going to be a serious competitor. He`s going to have an
extremely hard time raising money in the Republican primary, and he won`t,
in the end, be a major factor.

O`DONNELL: Don`t mess with Jersey is the lesson for Senator Rand

Steve Schmidt and Robert Gibbs, thank you both very much for joining
me tonight.

GIBBS: Thank you.

SCHMIDT: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, the president offers a new challenge to the
Republicans today. You will hear that challenge in the president`s own

And in the rewrite tonight, what would happen if McDonald`s didn`t
just raise wages? What would happen if they doubled the wages of all the
workers at McDonald`s? All those workers who create those profits, how
much would a Big Mac cost? The answer to that is in tonight`s rewrite.
And, yes, you could still afford one.

And we will have the latest on the Anthony Weiner`s campaign with Ari
Melber. And tonight, we will get a little help tonight from a



O`BRIEN: Former President Bill Clinton is upset that Anthony Weiner
is comparing his sexting scandal to Clinton`s affair with Monica Lewinsky.
Bill Clinton is upset, yes. Today, Bill Clinton said, real men cheat in



O`DONNELL: Coming up: you will hear the president`s challenge to
Republicans in his own words. Joy Reid and Eugene Robinson will give us
their analysis to the president`s speech. That`s next.



OBAMA: We`re not lacking for ideas, we`re just -- we`re just lacking
action, especially out of Washington. If folks in Washington really want a
grand bargain, how about a grand bargain for middle class jobs?


How about a grand bargain for middle class jobs?

I don`t -- I don`t want to go through the same arguments where I
propose an idea and the Republicans just say no because it`s my idea. I`m
willing to work with Republicans on reforming our tax code as long as we
use the money from transitioning to a simpler tax system for a significant
investment in creating middle class jobs. That`s the deal.



O`DONNELL: With 1,270 days left in his presidency, President Obama
went today to an Amazon shipping facility in Tennessee to offer a new deal
to congressional Republicans.


OBAMA: The good news is, there are a growing number of Republican
senators who are trying to work with Democrats to get some stuff done.
That`s good news.

The bad news is, that rather than keep our focus on what should be our
priority, which is growing our economy and creating good middle class jobs,
we`ve seen a certain faction of Republicans in Congress, hurt a fragile
recovery by saying that they wouldn`t pay the very bills that Congress
racked up in the first place, threatening to shut down the people`s
government if they can`t get rid of Obamacare.


O`DONNELL: Joining me now, Joy Reid, managing editor of "The Grio";
and "The Washington Post`s" Eugene Robinson.

Joy, another week, another president on the road. You can feel that
he is very mindful of that 1,270 days, he mentioned the number of days he
has left last week. He`s mentioned the number of days he has left this
week. He is counting every one.

JOY REID, THE GRIO: Yes. And you got to love sort of his sense of
enthusiasm. But I think this is a president who understands that he`s not
going to get anything through the House of Representatives.

So, you notice he said there are some senators who are trying to work
with him and trying to pass legislation. The House is doing absolutely
nothing and he is really now leaning on his executive authority,
understanding that he probably can`t get another big thing done with this
Congress. And he said in one of the interviews, look, they think I usurped
my authority just by winning the election.

So, this is a guy who understands the playing field.

O`DONNELL: Gene Robinson, he also understands that he is in one of
those jobs where not only can you not give up, you can never appear to even
consider giving up. And that is what you see out there today with that

And at minimum, he is identifying for voters where he believes the
problem is going forward. And it`s not in the White House.

EUGENE ROBINSON, WASHINGTON POST: Right, this is -- I think you read
today`s speech as part of a process. He will continue to give the economic
speeches, laying out his vision, his ideas, his proposed policies. He`s
going to point out that many of them were Republican proposed policies at
one point.

But, you know, corporate tax reform, which he proposed today, is going
to be like everything else.

You know, the Republicans for years say you know, we got to do this,
got to do this, got to do this. And then Obama says let`s do it. And they
say no way we`re doing this. So it is clearly -- Joy is right, it doesn`t
look like anything is going to actually happen.

O`DONNELL: And Max Baucus, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee,
which is where one of the last, great tax reform was done in 1986, has
worked previously -- been able to work previously with the ranking
Republican member there, Orrin Hatch, on exactly this kind of thing. And
they would of course, not be terribly controversial to allow some of the
revenue to go to purposes other than just reducing rates.

But now, it`s very difficult for Senator Hatch who was there back in
the day when Republicans were willing to do that, to go along with that

REID: And he was going back further than that. You know, Bob Dole.
This is Eisenhower Republican policy -- the idea of reducing the corporate
tax rate to 28 percent, which was 3 percent over what Paul Ryan was asking
for in the last election.

It was also the rolling, the spending if you want to call it into
Republicans going back to the `50s, always championed -- roads and bridges,
infrastructure, direct employment through hard labor, good work that
Americans could do, good, honest work.

And even this idea of funneling money into community colleges.
Republicans are always saying, oh, these Democratic elitists, they just
want to pour money into the colleges -- well, Obama is saying, no, let`s
put it into community colleges.

These are sort of moderate Republican/moderate Democratic policies
that have also been uncontroversial until Barack Obama was attached to
them. You know, Lawrence, I`ll be honest. The speech I wish Barack Obama
would give, is tell the American people, send me a Congress in 2014 that
will build a road or a bridge. Send me a Congress that will spend money on
your kids.

I didn`t run my last campaign, in next campaign, my last campaign is
in 2014.

O`DONNELL: Well, Gene, isn`t that exactly where this speech is going
and he really is just looking at the calendar right now and feeling that it
will feel premature to the voters and to phrase it that way.

ROBINSON: I think that`s exactly right. I think he is -- like a good
lawyer, I think he is laying the foundation for the eventual call to send
him a very different looking Congress in 2014 and we`re going to have the
series of economic speeches. We may have speeches on other topics down the

But I think ultimately that`s where it leads.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to the president today talking about what he
calls the Republicans jobs plan.


OBAMA: I`ve got to tell you, just gutting our environmental
protection, that`s not a jobs plan. Gutting investments in education,
that`s not a jobs plan. Yes, they keep on talking about this -- an oil
pipeline coming down from Canada, that is estimated to create about 50
permanent jobs. That`s not a jobs plan.

Wasting the country`s time by taking something like that 40
meaningless votes to repeal Obamacare is not a jobs plan. That is not a
jobs plan.



O`DONNELL: Joy Reid, there is a campaign sound to that part of the

REID: There`s a campaign sound. I like jaded Obama. I think a jaded
Obama is the Obama that I am rooting for at this point, because jaded Obama
doesn`t say things like, you know, I believe if we just put our nose to the
wheel that we can get this job done with Congress. He says, no, Congress
is trying to repeal Obamacare 40 times.

He recognizes what`s happening and he is recognizing that we recognize
it. And I think Eugene is right. As these bills going forward, what he
then needs to say is, we need 17 seats in the House of Representatives to
get things through, let`s have that in 2014.

O`DONNELL: Joy Reid and Eugene Robinson, thank you both very much for
joining me tonight.

REID: Thank you.

ROBINSON: Thanks, Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: Coming up in the rewrite, what raising the minimum wage
would do for workers and the price of Big Macs?

But first, is Anthony Weiner`s campaign for mayor really a cry for
help? That`s next.



WEINER: Now what I would like to talk about is housing in the Bronx.
Any questions about that?

REPORTER: Do you have a sexual disorder that you may have been

REPORTER: So you made your campaign about the middle class --


O`DONNELL: In the spotlight tonight, Anthony Weiner, once again.

The woman who most recently revealed new body images sent to her by
Anthony Weiner, Sidney Leathers said this today on Howard Stern`s show
about her sexting relationship with Anthony Weiner.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think he may actually think this is not

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think he really gives a (EXPLETIVE
DELETED) to be honest. I think he`s look, I`m Anthony Weiner. I`m going
to do -- I`m Carlos Danger. I`m going to do whatever I want.

Started to fizzle out, and I just kind of stopped answering my phone
calls, and he would get really mad at me and just be kind of a jerk when I
didn`t answer my phone every single time he called. It was just like a
teenage boy, just this needy little (EXPLETIVE DELETED) basically.


O`DONNELL: She so hates the attention about this.

"New York Times" coverage of Anthony Weiner relied today entirely, and
I mean entirely, on psychiatrists.

Dr. Richard C. Friedman, a professor of clinical psychiatry at Weill
Cornell Medical College in New York City told "The Times", "It`s almost as
if a little child were playing at being a politician and trying to hide
something. Mr. Weiner`s habit of sending women graphic photographs of his
body," Dr. Freidman said, "suggested someone with a deep insecurity around
his body image and his masculinity." Dr. Friedman also said, "The
superhero-like alter ego that Mr. Weiner chose for one of his online
relationships, Carlos Danger, also hinted that any feelings of being
inadequate could be long-standing. It is as if you are exposed to the
mental processes of a 9-year-old boy."

And when Dennis Hamill of the "The New York Daily News" asked Anthony
Weiner, is there another woman`s shoe about to drop in this campaign, that
was his question, Anthony Weiner responded, quote, "I have no idea, these
are people who I thought were friends. People I trusted when I
communicated with them, but who knows what they may do now? But none of it
is new, it is all old stuff, so I`ll be in this race for the next 44 days
and I think I can win."

The Weiner campaign countered all of this stuff today with this new
web ad.


WEINER: You know, sometimes people say to me, you know, this campaign
is pretty rough, you may want to quit. I know that there are newspaper
editors and other politicians saying, boy, I wish that Weiner would quit.
They don`t know New York. Certainly, they don`t know me, quit isn`t the
way we roll in New York City.


O`DONNELL: Joining me now are MSNBC, Ari Melber and Doctor Megan
Fleming, the psychologist specializing in sex and relationships and a
clinical instructor at Weill Cornell Medical College.

Doctor, if you have -- we are not talking about anyone in particular.
If you had a patient who was involved in a lot of -- kind of wild,
uncontrollable texting, sexting, this sort of thing, kind of what you heard
about in this Anthony Weiner case, and that patient was running for mayor
of New York and there were 44 days left in the campaign and all of this was
happening, what would you recommend that patient would do for his own
mental health?

Well, I think it is a great question --

O`DONNELL: Thank you, I worked on it all day.

FLEMING: But I also think he is not necessarily thinking about it in
the way of mental health. That I think from the way he is sort of speaking
to the media, he is acting as if this is something that is quote unquote
behind him. And I don`t think he is taking accountability or
responsibility for his choices in his behavior. The fact that he in any
way engaged, which was publicly acknowledged, although it was not brought
out into now in the media, really, I think helps us to recognize, he is not
aware of the real consequences to his behavior. I mean, he is really -- he
doesn`t have good reality testing or somehow he thinks he is above any
consequence. And I think that what is really a concern here is he just
expects the constituents to act as if this haven`t happened or that his has
got it under control. And to me, it represents it is either obsessive
behavior, that he doesn`t have control over or this is getting certain
needs on that, whether it is for the validation or whether it is for
pleasure seeking or attention relief, it is unclear. But to engage in the
problematic behavior despite clear harm is something that really raises red
flags for me.

O`DONNELL: OK. Now, this goes to something Ari and I have been
talking about for awhile which we are trying to see if there is a
connection between this and someone`s function as mayor looking at city
budget documents and considering what to do in terms of police pay raises
or deal with the various issues that would come across. It is asking in
your experience, have you seen people with this kind of situation going on
who also function perfectly OK in their jobs as lawyers or whatever it is
they are.

FLEMING: Well, I think that we all have the capacity to function at a
certain level. But is he at -- sort of his optimal level? I am not sure
how that is possible. Because so much energy is going into either engaging
in this behavior or trying to restrict this behavior or cover up this
behavior. And so, the ability to think clearly and rationally, when so
much energy is sort of being channeled in these other -- for these other
purposes, to me, really doesn`t leave him with the resources to do this

O`DONNELL: Ari, it seems to me like there may be 30 good campaign
days here that are possible for Weiner. Meaning this -- Sidney, what is
her name, Leathers, eventually she is going to have done every show that
she wants to go on and talk about, you know, about him. And then she is
going to eventually go away. And she he is going to keep going out there.
I think he is going to go out there for the next 44 days. He is going to
trying to keep talking about issues and at some point, he actually will be
talking about issues and he may get this race to calm down to the point
where he won`t come in first, but he will have completed what now seems to
be his mission which is just to complete this thing all the way to election

ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST, THE CYCLE: Yes, I think there is the politics
of this and there is the question of the criteria by which he should judge.
We have been talking about both. On the politics, there are plenty of
people who had scandals. David Vitter had a prostitution scandals, for
some people, Louisiana was a big deal. Others decided to reelected him by
19 points. He is a Republican who never went through the resigning that
Weiner and Eliot Spitzer went through. You know, Eliot Spitzer in a tight
race and we will see. He has not had the same oxygen, you know, used up.
Weiner`s problem politically to your point is obviously this is taking a
while, does it take so much that he falls out of the top two in a race
where we have a primary between two people.

As for the medical piece, I assume you are speaking as an analyst. I
assumed you have not diagnosed him. And I think one concern here is that
we separate, view it at a distance from the diagnosis. "The New York
Times" also and ironically you mentioned, had someone talking about whether
he might be bipolar. That struck as odd, probably irresponsible journalism
when that a very serious diagnosis type for related a suicidal tendency.


O`DONNELL: We all noted that they haven`t seen the patients, and all
that. But they are left with this body of what is now public behavior and
public evidence and they are doing their best. And we are asking the
psychiatrist for their help on this political story, which needs definite
psychiatric input.

Can you help us with the New York voter and the public? And why
people see this so differently from actual sex scandals that involved
actual touching a human being, like as in the Bill Clinton case, Ari and I
have been having trouble, seeing why this outrages people. It seems,
especially liberals and Democrats who defend it, the Bill Clintons of the
world and others. They are completely horrified by this conduct for some

FLEMING: Well, it is striking to me --

O`DONNELL: What is wrong with them?

FLEMING: You know, what I am most struck by is the fact that-- again,
it is a sexual behavior, acting out. It certainly is a behavior that we
don`t expect from a politician or somebody in public office.

O`DONNELL: Ari and I do, we know politicians. We are so un-

FLEMING: The thing that really strikes me here the most, clinically,
the fact that this is a repetition. The facts that he had resigned from
office, had all of that public attention. And, you know, knew in his
mind`s eye that he would be running this race and still a year ago, engaged
in this behavior. To me, that is the part that make it (INAUDIBLE).

O`DONNELL: When you pay a massive public and humiliating price, for
any kind of behavior, even though you think the behavior is OK but you have
paid that price and you want to get back into the public arena where they
will make you pay that price again, that is what is so peculiar here.

FLEMING: And it is potentially, it is diagnostic. Look, I haven`t
evaluated him. So I can`t, you know, give a clinical diagnosis. But, you
know, it is almost what I am saying, the reality testing. How is it that
he thinks he is above that accountability, that somehow in his magical
thinking that this wouldn`t come home to roost. And somehow, he is above
and beyond the accountability for that behavior.

O`DONNELL: Ari Melber, and Dr. Megan Fleming, thank you both for
joining us.

Coming up, what the Bradley Manning verdict tells us about the next
steps on the Ed Snowden case.

And on the rewrite tonight, rewriting the minimum wage and the price
of Big Macs.


KATHRYN WALLACH, LAST WORD INTERN: Former governor Sarah Palin is
Alaska Republican`s top choice to challenge Democratic senator Mark Beggett
in 2014, even though polls indicate she couldn`t beat him in the general
election. A public poll shows she has 36 percent of Republican primary
voters. But in a match with Mark Begett, the senator wins by 12 points, 58
percent of Alaska voters view Sarah Palin unfavorably.

Coming up, how much were a Big Mac cost took the minimum wage
increase. That`s in the rewrite.

O`DONNELL: What were you afraid of? That was so good. I was not
watching you. I was watching the monitor over there. That was completely

WALLACH: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Kathryn Wallach, as we continue intern week, this is your
last week.

WALLACH: Yes, sadly.

O`DONNELL: Now, Josie Ortegon, who did it last night, she actually
had, I discovered the fact had had on-camera experience. In her college,
she does the local -- but you don`t want to ever be on camera. This is the
most terrifying thing you have done?

WALLACH: Awful. But no, I like it now that I`m here.

O`DONNELL: It looked like you have done this a thousand times.

WALLACH: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: So much for your stage fright.

WALLACH: I know, I`m getting over it.

O`DONNELL: All right, we got to go do some commercials, come back and
do some more TV show. You finish the show, you do it. I will leave now.
I`m done.



that in the wealthiest nation on earth, no one who works full-time should
have to live in poverty. And raise the federal minimum wage to $9 an hour.


O`DONNELL: That was President Obama in his last state of the union
address in February. And here is what the president had to say about the
minimum wage today.


OBAMA: Because nobody who works full-time in America should have to
live in poverty, I`m going to keep on making the case and fighting for the
fact that we need to raise our minimum wage because right now, it has not
happened since Ronald Reagan took office.


O`DONNELL: Yesterday, thousands of fast food workers walked off their
jobs in cities across the country. In New York city, WNBC estimated a
thousand fast food workers converged on Union Square after walking off
their jobs earlier this month, at the McDonald`s at 131st and Broadway in
the middle of one of New York`s worse heat wave. The air conditioning
broke down and at least one worker fainted, while others walked off the

Around that same time, McDonald`s was widely criticized for providing
its workers with a sample monthly budget to help guide them in pinching the
pennies, McDonald`s pays them. There many ridiculous aspects of the budget
including no entries whatsoever for food or clothing, and only $20 a month
for health insurance. When the health insurance plan McDonald`s offers its
full-time workers is almost triple that amount.

But what the most attention is the second line of the McDonald`s
suggested budget for McDonald`s worker. The second line is income from a
second job, which means that McDonald`s was blatantly, officially admitting
that it is impossible to survive on a McDonald`s job alone.

WNBC`s Rod Schmidt found one McDonald`s worker yesterday in Union
Square who is following the McDonald`s suggestion of carrying a second job.


KAREEM STARKS, MCDONALD`S WORKER: I have two boys, six and 12, I
couldn`t afford to buy anything for their graduation.

ROD SCHMIDT, WNBC CORRESPONDENT: Kareem Starks says he works about 30
hours a week for a McDonald`s in Brooklyn, and makes 800 a month. His rent
for him and his two boys is 1050. His second job pays the rest of his rent
and for food. He says he barely gets buy.

STARKS: Let`s talk about the wage and what it is in the city.

SCHMIDT: It just doesn`t add up.


O`DONNELL: The president knows what raising the minimum wage would
mean to these workers.


OBAMA: This would raise the income for millions of working families.
It could mean the difference between groceries or the food bank, rent or
vacation, scraping by or finally getting ahead.


O`DONNELL: McDonald`s refused to comment on yesterday`s demonstration
around the country and instead relied on their Washington lobbyists to
respond for the company. The heartless lobbyist said, restaurants operate
on very thin profit margins, significant additional labor costs can
negatively impact a restaurant`s ability to hire or maintain jobs.

But running the numbers of labor costs at McDonald`s tells us another
story. And the university of Kansas research assistant, Arborio Morelicks
(ph) has done just that. Morelicks (ph) found that McDonald`s total
payroll is about 17.1 percent of its revenue. So he found that if you
double, if you double every salary of every worker at McDonald`s including
CEO Donald Thompson, who makes almost $9 million a year. If you double all
that, including that big $9 million salary, and assuming that McDonald`s
then decided to pass on every penny of that cost to the consumer, which
they wouldn`t have to do. But let`s just assume that is the way McDonald`s
would do that kind of thing. The price of a Big Mac, and remember you
shouldn`t be eating Big Macs, they`re not good for you, but the price of a
Big Mac would increase just 68 cents from $3.99 cents to $4.67 cents and
that is if you double every salary.

Now, if you left out the CEO`s $9 million salary. If you left it
exactly where it is and you raised all the salaries of all the people who
were just actually working in the restaurants by saying, you know, 50
percent, you would probably add just about 25 cents to the cost of a Big
Mac. Because labor cost`s don`t affect McDonald`s prices very much.

In most states, the minimum is the same as in most, $7.25. In Albany,
New York, where the minimum is that $7.25, a Big Mac costs 3.99. In
Riverside, California, a Big Mac also costs $3.99, but the California
minimum wage is a full 75 cents higher. It has no effect on the price

Nothing affects McDonald`s prices more than the value of commercial
real estate where the store is located. So of course, some of the most
expensive Big Macs in the country are here in New York city, right around
the corner from this building where they cost $4.69 which is also what a
Big Mac will cost you on Fillmore street in San Francisco where, get this,
the local minimum wage is a full $3.30 higher than the minimum wage here in
New York city. Where the Big Mac is the same price, because you see San
Francisco has its own minimum wage on top of the federal -- minimum wage,
and on top of state of California`s minimum wage, which I said is higher
than most states. San Francisco`s minimum wage is $10.55 and McDonald`s
still wants to do business there and still makes barrels and barreling
barrels of money there.


OBAMA: For businesses across the country it would mean customers with
more money in their pockets. And a whole lot of folks out there would
probably need less help from government. In fact, working folks shouldn`t
have to wait year after year for the minimum wage to go up while CEO pay
has never been higher.


O`DONNELL: That is right. Increasing the minimum wage is good for
business and it always has been. It puts more money in consumer`s pockets.
So what will really happen to McDonald`s the next time the minimum wage
goes up? The very same thing that has happened McDonald`s every time the
minimum wage has gone up. McDonald`s will make more money a lot more


OBAMA: A family with two kids that earning the minimum wage still
lives below the poverty line. That is wrong.


O`DONNELL: A new report shows publicly funding family planning
services saved the government $10.5 billion in 2010, and prevented 760,000
abortions. For every dollar, the government spends to fund contraceptive
service, the taxpayers save $5.68.

Coming up, the Bradley Manning verdict and what it means for the
Edward Snowden case.


O`DONNELL: Tomorrow begins the sentencing phase in the court martial
of private first class Bradley Manning who now faces up to 136 years in
prison, for leaking some 700,000 documents on the wars in Iraq and
Afghanistan to Wikileaks. Today, the judge acquitted Manning, of the most
serious charge he faced, aiding the enemy, but found him guilty on 20
charges such as espionage, computer fraud and theft.

Wikileaks founder, Julian Assange, had this reaction to the verdict
from Ecuador`s London embassy tonight.


JULIAN ASSANGE, FOUNDER, WIKILEAKS: It is a serious -- it is a
serious abuse and it will mean the end of national security journals in the
United States, as we know it. Wikileaks and Bradley Manning`s support team
will not rest until he is free. There was only ever one just outcome from
this trial, and that was an acquittal.


O`DONNELL: Joining me now, Steve Clemons, Washington editor at-large
for "the Atlantic."

And Steve, Julian Assange doesn`t seem to know that even if Bradley
Manning had been acquitted of every one of these charges, he had already
pled guilty to charge that is would have put him in prison for a maximum of
20 years. So, freedom was not an option in the outcome today.

don`t think freedom was an option. But I do think that the notion about
you know, both in the case of Bradley Manning and I would also say Edward
Snowden, you know, two men are saying, you know, they saw things that a
national security state were doing that need a response and so they took

I think in the case of manning, who was deprived of his clothes, in
hard-core solitary confinement for a very long time with lots of questions
about what the military was doing with just outrageous treatment. I think
that while he has accepted the fact that he is going to be in jail for some
time, I think that he still, you know, has you know, some redemption here
for having been acquitted of the much more serious crime of aiding and
abetting the enemy.

O`DONNELL: And on that part of the case, what is your sense of what
that means in terms of news gathers, who will continue over time to try to
work sources like this.

CLEMONS: Well, I think across the board we had a real problem and
that is, you know, you had Jim Risen of "The New York Times" who had been
compelled to testify against his source after his book, "state of war,"
which told fascinating and important stories about our interaction with
Iran. We had the subpoenaing of grand jury materials. And we just don`t
know the limit.

You know, one of the things that we are not thinking about, you and I
talked about this a lot. We don`t know what else is out there. What other
orders on grand jury investigations had been done. But when you add up
each one of these cases, It is pretty lousy that during the Obama
administration, we have seen the largest encroachment and rollbacks of
national security journalist latitude to do their job. And I think that is
a very, very serious and disconcerts problem.

You know, Wikileaks was in a way, Wikileaks broadly and Bradley
Manning`s role, was in market response, in my view, to the expansion of
official secrecy which the Obama administration is not curtail and we have
to deal with that. We have the second of those with Snowden. There will
be a third and a fourth and a fifth if we don`t see a change in the way the
government tries to keep itself from being accountable in the secret
business particularly in the national security arena.

O`DONNELL: I mean, Steve. Are what we seeing here is that one of the
problems with the size of intelligence gathering that requires this many
people is it is going to be impossible to screen them, to keep your secrets
at the NSA. It is just about you`re going to get the Ed Snowden and others
eventually overtime coming in to the systems.

CLEMONS: Well, truly interesting that as all of us have digital foot
print that are recordable and those digital footprints are able to be kept
for life, in a way, it also makes the government vulnerable because its
digital activities are also releasable.

O`DONNELL: Steve Clemons gets tonight`s "Last Word."

Thank you, Steve.

CLEMONS: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Chris Hayes is up next.


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