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'The Rachel Maddow Show' for Thursday, August 22nd, 2013

Read the transcript to the Thursday show

August 22, 2013

Guests: Jon Hawley, G.K. Butterfield, Montravias King

RACHEL MADDOW, HOST: Good evening, Chris. It`s a beautiful night
here. Thank you, my friend. I really appreciate it.

Thanks to you at home for staying with us the next hour.

Where we are, bringing you this show this hour, from not our usual
home base, with way more mosquitoes than are usually ever on my face.

Here`s why we`re on the road: The day before the `08 presidential
election, the morning of the day before the election, presidential
candidate Barack Obama that day got a phone call in the morning, telling
him that his grandmother had just died. She had died at the apartment in
Hawaii where he had lived with her for a time when he was a boy.

He had been raised partially by his grandparents, by his mother`s
parents. He was very close to his grandparents. Very close to his
grandmother. This was the day before the presidential election in 2008
that she died.

President Obama took time that day to grieve on his own, then that
night, he came to North Carolina. Just hours before the polls were due to
open across the country, President Obama did one last rally, a huge one,
25,000 people in the rain at the University of North Carolina in Charlotte.

He talked about his grandmother that night. He said, "She`s gone
home. She died peacefully in her sleep with my sister at her side." He
said, "I`m not going to talk about her too long, because it is hard for me
to talk about."

And so, with just hours to go until Election Day, presidential
candidate Barack Obama, that night before the election in 2008, he stood in
the rain in Charlotte and he cried during his speech. And he gave his
closing argument for why he should be president of the United States.

And it was a very powerful moment because of that raw, human emotion,
but it was also a powerful political moment because here it was the night
before a presidential election and it is a big deal that the Democratic
presidential candidate is making his closing argument to the nation from
the South. And he could afford to do that because some of the South was
within reach for him, and for Democrats on Election Day.


politics in Washington, after eight years of failed policies from George W.
Bush, you don`t need to boo, you just need -- you just need to vote.


After 21 months of a campaign that has taken us from the rocky coasts
of Maine, to the sunshine of California, we are one day away from changing
America. One day.


MADDOW: The next day, Barack Obama went on to win Florida. He went
on to win Virginia. And he went on to win North Carolina. A Democrat won
in North Carolina.

Bill Clinton did not win North Carolina either time. But Barack Obama
did. He did, just barely. He won by a little more than 14,000 votes.

That was the first time a Democrat had carried North Carolina in a
presidential election since Jimmy Carter.

The Obama campaign thought the state of North Carolina was within
reach. They pumped $15 million into the state to try to win it and they
won it.

They won on the strength of some key voting groups in the state. For
example, voters 29 and younger voted for Barack Obama 74 percent to 26
percent. Look at the African-American vote in North Carolina. Black
voters in the state went for Barack Obama 95 percent to 5 percent.

Turnout in the `08 presidential election was up across the country.
That, of course, was a big historic election. It drew lots and lots of
attention. But turnout in North Carolina was way up. It was the largest
increase in turnout anywhere in the country between the `04 election and
`08 election was in North Carolina.

And it was not just a flash in the pan for that one election. North
Carolina had been on its way up for years at that point. It had been on
its way up from the very, very bottom, because back in the early 1990s,
North Carolina was at the very bottom. The state ranked 47th in voter
participation, 47th out of 50.

But the state started making an effort to turn that around and by the
2000 presidential election, North Carolina had risen from 47th in the
nation to 34th in the nation in terms of turnout. And then by 2008, they`d
gone from 34th in the nation, up to 21st in the nation. And then in the
last election by 2012, North Carolina had risen all the way up to 11th in
the country in terms of voter turnout, from 47th to 11th.

North Carolina cracked the code when it came to voting. North
Carolina went from third worst in the nation to knocking on the door of the
top 10. And they did it by making voting easier to do. They implemented
early voting in 2000. They implemented same-day voter registration in

North Carolina was a voting success story, until it wasn`t. All of
those measures to improve voter participation in North Carolina were signed
into law by Democratic governors.

But in 2010, Republicans had a plan to turn all that around. In the
2010 midterm elections, the elections that took place two years into
President Obama`s first term, Republicans basically ran the table, right?
I mean, they painted the country red.

And the opposition party, the party that`s not in the White House
always does well in the midterms. That`s always the case.

But in 2010, the opposition did spectacularly. Republicans took back
control of the House of Representatives in Washington. They picked up an
astonishing 63 seats in the House. Republicans that year also picked up
six seats in the United States Senate.

Whether Republicans really cleaned up in 2010 was in the states. That
year, Republicans won 680 seats in state legislatures across the country.
They took control of more legislative seats in the states than at any point
since 1928.

That was what happened that year and it happened everywhere. But
where it really, really happened was in North Carolina.

The Republican plan was to take over North Carolina state legislature
basically by brute political force. What they added to the national mix in
North Carolina was flooding the state with outside money.

North Carolina saw an unprecedented flood of money into state
legislated races in 2010. Not money going directly to candidates. It was
money going to the supposedly independent groups that were, in fact, very
obviously partisan groups.

For the first time in anybody`s memory, local Democratic legislators
who had held their seats forever basically were suddenly facing an
onslaught of cash from outside groups with all sorts of generic sounding
names like real Jobs N.C. and Civitas Action -- those groups were helping
the Republican side.

The truly fascinating thing was that almost all of the outside morning
going to fund all of those anodyninely (ph) named different groups. Almost
all of money was coming from one guy. His name is Art. Art Pope. He`s a
multimillionaire conservative activist who inherited an empire of discount
stores from his dad.

Art Pope and his family have given so much money to Republican causes
in state of North Carolina over the years that the party`s state
headquarters building is named after them. Seriously.

And in 2010, Art Pope and his family foundation and his business, they
zeroed in specifically on the North Carolina state legislature. Three
quarters of all the outside money that flooded into North Carolina races
that year came from accounts linked to this one guy, this one zillion their
businessman. Millions and millions and millions of dollars directed by
this one guy, and it worked.

Of the 22 legislative races that were targeted by Art Pope that year,
Republicans took 18 of them, enough to turn the statehouse not just red,
but completely red for the first time since just after the civil war.

Before the 2010 elections, the North Carolina state legislature looked
like this. Democrats controlled both houses by pretty good margins. After
election night 2010, it looked like this. Boink.

North Carolina turned bright red. I mean, the whole country went red
in 2010, but North Carolina`s red tide was like no other state.

And in this most recent election, in 2012, Republicans increased their
margins. They gained a supermajority in both chambers of the legislature.
And just for good measure, a Republican got the governor`s mansion as well.

For the first time since 1870, Republicans had total control in North
Carolina. They controlled both houses of the legislature, and the
governor`s mansion.

And they saw that as sufficient occasion to go absolutely hog wild.
All of this pent-up stuff, they`d always wanted to do. And who knew they
wanted to do it. It turns out North Carolina Republicans wanted to
establish a state religion. That one came up right away.

There was also the bill to ban Sharia law in the state because
apparently that was right around the corner here.

They passed some of the most extreme abortion measures anywhere in the

North Carolina Republicans passed a law allowing you to hunt with a
silencer on your gun, because venison tastes better when the deer is not
surprised -- or something. I don`t know.

When it came to the state`s budget, North Carolina Republicans forced
through deep enough cuts to public education, to scare everybody else in
the country. They passed a tax reform bill that slashes the corporate tax
rate, that eliminates the e state tax for the very richest people in the
state, that shifts more of the tax burden in the state on to the poor and
on to the middle class.

The guy who`s now in charge of those sorts of things in North
Carolina, the state`s budget director, is our friend, Art. None other than
the multimillionaire Republican benefactor who helped make all of this
possible. Art Pope after essentially buying the government that he wanted,
Art Pope now is the government.

Now, in terms of insulating themselves from the political costs of
doing stuff like this and going this fast, there were things that could be
done about that, too. As I said, the 2010 midterm elections were great for
Republicans in North Carolina because that was a census year. Their
victories that year gave Republicans a chance to redraw the congressional
districts in the state to their advantage.

So, in the 2012 election this past November, get this. Most North
Carolina voters when they voted, November 2012, 51 percent of North
Carolina voters voted that they wanted a Democrat to represent them in
Congress. Democratic candidates got 81,000 more votes than Republican
candidates did for Congress in North Carolina in 2012. Of the 13
congressional seats in the state, Republicans took nine of them.

What? Thank you, redistricting.

So gerrymandering districts like that, you know, it works for a while.
That can take you pretty far. We only have a census year every ten years,

But the bigger problem is the pesky problem of turnout. I mean, voter
turnout that`s getting this much better, this faster, that`s not good for
the Republican Party. They count on low turnout elections to lock up their
gains. Voter turnout getting that good that fast, that is not good.

And the most potent part is the minority vote in the state. I mean,
the problem is young people, too. Really, really the most potent part of
that problem is the minority vote for Republicans.

So, the last two days of the legislative session in North Carolina
this year were devoted to a complete overhaul of voting rights in the

And that is why we are here. That is why we are here in beautiful
Elizabeth City, North Carolina, right now -- the gateway to the outer
banks, tucked up into the northeastern corner of the state, because here it
is clear as day, here it is starting in some ways, and here it is a tale of
two schools.

I spent most of the day today at Elizabeth City State University where
they have 2,500 students, give or take. Elizabeth City state is a
historically black college. It`s still mostly African-American. The
university named after Elizabeth City is a big part of this relatively
small town.

But Elizabeth City does have another four-year school here. The other
one is called Mid-Atlantic Christian University, used to be called Roanoke
Bible. It`s a much smaller school. It`s private, religious, mostly a
white school.

Like the historically black school across town, Mid-Atlantic Christian
is a civic-minded place. Every year, they hold a voter registration drive
so students can register to vote from school and the school shuttles them
downtown to polling places. It`s a priority for the school. They take it


KEN GREENE, MACU VP FOR STUDENT SERVICES: I think it`s important for
us to be involved with our local community, as well as national issues when
we have presidential elections. So, we`re responsible as citizens to be a
part of what`s going on in the world around us.


MADDOW: In his seven years at Mid-Atlantic Christian, Vice President
Ken Greene says he`s never known a student having a problem in registering
to vote or voting for the school. It`s not a problem in Atlantic

But over across town, at Elizabeth City State, students who try to
vote from that school, they have been running into problems and kind of big
ones. In 2007, a local Republican challenged the voting rights of 18
students at Elizabeth City State, at the historically black college. He
said they didn`t really live at the school. All of those challenges

Then, in November 2012, four students who voted in that election got
their votes challenged, too. Then a few months later, in April 2013, there
were so many challenges to Elizabeth City State voters that the hearing
lasted for hours. They challenged 60 voters that day, almost all of them
students, at this mostly black college. Fifty-six students had their names
struck from the voting rolls in that round.

And, you know, you might say, why is this one school getting all these
challenges while the other school in town says no problem? We`re voting,
we`re never getting challenged and it`s all OK.

Is it because one school is mostly black and the other one is mostly
white? Is it because one school is bigger? Because one school is more
conservative? Or is it just because of this guy?

All those challenges to the student voters at the local historically
black college were brought by one guy. His name is Pete Gilbert. He`s the
one who`s on the right. There you go, sitting at the table. He`s going
through students` names, student name after student name. If you have been
registered to vote as an Elizabeth City State University student in recent
years, then an encounter with Pete Gilbert has been a very real possibility
for you.

Mr. Gilbert is the chairman of the local county Republican Party. He
lives in the same city ward that includes this historically black, mostly
African-American school. He says he challenges voters from that school
specifically because that is his home precinct. Elizabeth City State is on
his turf.

In North Carolina, as that local Republican has been trying to kick
students off the rolls, he`s relied on part of the law that lets you
challenge people who vote in the same precinct as yours. The law also
would have allowed him to challenge the student voters at the other school
at the mostly white school across town, just not during an election. If
he`d wanted to make a big deal out of questioning the Christian school
student voters, too, he very easily could have done that, but he just
didn`t. That county Republican chairman has stayed focused on his own turf
and on the black school in town.

But whatever choices Pete Gilbert made as he went along for whatever
reasons he made them, his turf now has just gotten much, much bigger. He`s
now challenging the right of this Elizabeth City State student to run for
city council. He says because Montravias King is a student, he can`t
really live in Elizabeth City so he can`t run for office here.

This new challenge happened this month here at the county board of
elections. Actually it happened right here in this exact room.


MADDOW: White people sat on one side, black people sat on the other?


Mr. Gilbert does have some black supporters in the community, but this
is still an issue that`s been triggering a lot of racial tension in the
community. If I could, just, the way it played out over the better part of
six or seven hours is Mr. King and his attorney were here. Mr. Gilbert was
there with his supporters, including Mrs. Myrick, who was a silent observer
during the hearing.

MADDOW: Who`s Mrs. Myrick?

HAWLEY: With the Civitas Institute.

MADDOW: Which is a conservative think tank.

HAWLEY: Yes. They said her present was for her personal edification,
I have nothing to refute that one way or the other.

MADDOW: But she sat with Mr. Gilbert, the Republican Party chairman
when he was issuing the challenge, essentially?

HAWLEY: Yes, he`s had a lot of practice at this. The challenges were
basically the same sort of arguments that he`s been using over the last
couple of years. So, he certainly didn`t need her assistance for this.


MADDOW: This is a really interesting detail. The woman from Art
Pope`s think tank, the Civitas Institute, was in town that day here in
Elizabeth City as a silent observer to the challenge of this student to be
able to run for office here.

What was she there to see? She was not there to help. The local
Republican Party chairman knows how to make these challenges. He`s been
doing it for years. He doesn`t need any help from anybody.

She`s not there to help. She`s there to learn? She there to see how
this is done? How this might be done in the rest of the state?

Because this is what she saw that day -- across North Carolina,
Republicans, have just gained control of all the boards of elections for
the first time in 20 years. Big state elections board, all the county
boards, Republican control all them because there`s a Republican who holds
the governorship.

The new Republican majority in the local board here in this case
didn`t question whether Montravias King has lived at school for four years.
That was not the issue. What they questioned was whether living at school
is enough to make you a resident and they said it is not.

And in making that decision, they accepted a legal framework for
disqualifying students from voting in local elections. That`s how reporter
John Hawley put it. He`s talking there about students at the black school
in Elizabeth City. This development could very well affect every student
voter, every college, in the state.


MADDOW: If that precedent was set, if what happened here in this room
stands at the state level, the precedent is set that any full-time student
in North Carolina can`t vote at school?

HAWLEY: It would certainly seem that way.


MADDOW: If Montravias King thought it would be hard enough running
for local office, imagine what the pressure is like now -- now that he has
to win this case or beat the precedent.


MADDOW: If the residency challenges are successful against you,
there`s no reason why the exact same residency challenge wouldn`t be
successful against every on-campus student at every college in North


MADDOW: If you lose this case, it`s going to be a big deal.

KING: It really is.

MADDOW: No pressure.


KING: It really is. Yes.


MADDOW: No pressure. Also merging while we`re having this

The pressure is on in North Carolina for real. We spoke with Pete
Gilbert this week, the Republican county chairman here, asked him to sit
down with us for an interview. He did not want to talk about us.

But what we wanted to know is whether he still intends to take this
show on the road as he has said, about challenging student voting rights
across North Carolina now that his plans are receiving so much national
attention. Does he still want to take this show on the road and do this
all across the state?

He tells us he`s waiting for Montravias King`s appeal to the state
board of election. At the state board of elections the new Republican
chair there is urging the newly Republican local boards to cool it. Try to
get along with everybody. He also says they`re independent and they`re
appointed by the governor and then left to fly.

And if the county Republican chairman, if the Pete Gilberts of the
state decide to go for it, North Carolina Republicans have made that much,
much easier. Under North Carolina`s old elections law, you could only
challenge a voter`s eligibility to vote, you could only challenge
somebody`s residency, registration if that person lived in the same county.
Under the law signed by Governor McCrory this month, any voter, anywhere in
the state can go anywhere in the state and challenge the registration of
any other voter.

You want to block all the students from voting at your local
historically black college? Or the college where maybe they just vote too
liberal? Give it a go. The field is now wide open. Give it a try.
Worked here. At least it`s worked here so far.

Supporters of voting rights are now suing I federal court over that
part of the new law. But the other defense of voting rights is just
beginning to happen right here in Elizabeth City and that is what we came
here today to see.


LESLIE NORTMAN, ECSU STUDENT: I`ve learned one thing, but the bravery
and the foolishness of the youth is not something to be toyed with.




MADDOW: So the auditorium is used by the elections board, but it`s
kind of next door?

HAWLEY: Yes. Traditionally, when the challenge hearings are held,
there`s just not enough room in the board of elections office. So they
borrow the space that the American Red Cross generally offers to them.

MADDOW: Can we go in?

HAWLEY: Yes, please.

Over the better part of six or seven hours, this is where the hearing
was held.

MADDOW: This is where the hearing was held where they challenged
Montravias` residency whether he could run?

HAWLEY: Yes, this is also where the April challenges against ECSU
students were held. One of the first things you notice about the room was
that it was divided along black and white lines. Part of that is local
personalities, of course, people just not getting along with each other.
But it was a very stark thing that people noticed.

MADDOW: Just people sat -- white people sat on one side, black people
sat on the other?

HAWLEY: Yes. Mr. Gilbert does have black supporters in the
community, but this is an issue triggering racial tension in the community.
Usually they`re humdrum, boring meetings as you might expect. But, of
course, they`ve been garnering a lot more interest as of late.

I`m going to try to make sure to go to all of them from now on.

MADDOW: Please do. Please do.


MADDOW: We`re counting on it.

The grounds on which this seems like an important national story, and
not just a fascinating local drama, is the extent to which this could be a
precedent. I mean, if at the board of elections level, here in Elizabeth
City, they`re saying, you know what, if you live on campus, you don`t live
here, you don`t live in this town. You may be at Elizabeth City State
University, but you are not in Elizabeth City for the purpose of voting.

If that is not just alleged, but confirmed by the board of elections,
and, indeed, if that is confirmed by the state board of elections which
they`re appealing to, that has the effect, that would have the effect, if
it`s precedent, of saying that no full-time student living on campus
anywhere in North Carolina has the right to vote there. Wouldn`t it?

HAWLEY: That would certainly set up the argument. To be clear with
Mr. King`s case, his candidacy was the only issue explicitly debated to

MADDOW: But the criteria for being allowed to get your name on the
ballot to run and the criteria to vote are the same criteria.

HAWLEY: Yes, so it could set up the precedent -- it just seems
logical if you accept that, well, dormitory is inherently temporary for
candidacy purposes, they would also be inherently temporary for voting

MADDOW: The Republican activists and local officials here, Mr.
Gilbert, in particular, against Montravias running for office, they`ve been
pretty explicitly having said that they plan to use the same tactic to
challenge not just people`s right to run for office, but people`s right to
vote -- students` right to vote?

HAWLEY: Mr. Gilbert has been somewhat reluctant to detail what he
wants to do going forward. He did, of course, tell "The Associated Press",
I want to take my show on the road.

In subsequent interviews, I asked, does that mean seminars? Do you
coach other county boards? What happens from here?

And he hasn`t really gotten into that question, and the level of
scrutiny this is drawing is something that I think would be fair to say is
surprising to him. But there -- it`s only logical that this precedent
would spread if it is upheld.

MADDOW: If -- that`s what makes it a big deal. That`s what makes
this a big deal story. If that precedent was set, if what happened here in
this room stands at the state level, the precedent is set that any full-
time student in North Carolina can`t vote at school.

HAWLEY: It would certainly seem that way. It`s my understanding that
the state board has not yet set a hearing date for Mr. King`s case.


HAWLEY: They -- they don`t have to set a firm date as best I
understand it according to state law, but they, of course, are strongly
encouraged to expedite the matter. That`s according to one of his
attorneys with the Southern Coalition.

MADDOW: Well, tick, tick, tick. I mean, it`s not too long before the
elections are going to happen.

HAWLEY: Yes, our elections board of director has said he`ll hold off
printing the ballot as long as he can --


HAWLEY: -- to make sure there`s some sort of resolution for this.
But obviously it`s kind of hard for Mr. King to run for office and defend
this at the same time. So, bringing finality to this soon would be an
important thing.

MADDOW: Absolutely. John Hawley with "The Daily Advance" -- thank
you. I appreciate this chance to talk to you about this.

HAWLEY: Thank you, ma`am.

MADDOW: Your reporting really has been indispensable.

I`ll say, wherever you are anywhere in the country, you have a local
newspaper. You`ve been annoyed going to their Web site and realizing
everything is behind a pay wall now. It`s because you need their money and
you should subscribe for them. Seriously.

For me, for Northampton, Massachusetts, "The Daily Hampshire Gazette,", I pay to get behind the pay wall. You should pay for your
local paper, so guys like Jon can report on important stuff that happens in
board rooms like this. Seriously. Do it.



MADDOW: We`re live at Elizabeth City, North Carolina, tonight.

And North Carolina is a big place. About 350 miles west of here is
Boone, North Carolina, and Watauga County, which is the home of Appalachian
State University. More than 17,000 students, more than 2,000 employees.

In the 2012 election, Watauga County overall voted for Mitt Romney for
president, just barely, by about 800 votes in the whole county. But the
three Boone precincts where Appalachian State is, those precincts voted
heavily for President Obama, 60 percent to 35 percent.

The districts that include lots of students and faculty there, they
are a very blue part of that county and very blue part of this state.

Last Monday, the newly Republican-controlled Watauga County Board of
Elections held an unexpectedly heated special meeting at which they said
they were going to eliminate two of the three voting precincts serving
Boone. That means there were no longer be a place to vote on campus at
Appalachian State, and that is a huge change for thousands of people there
who, you know, may someday want to vote.


convenient. Vote in between classes. Vote whenever you want to. It`s
just easy, and it`s simple. Not only is it simple for us, but it`s simple
for faculty and staff that work on campus as well.

resident of the county and as someone who I work on campus, I usually early
vote. Part of it is a question of convenience, clearly. I think I`ve
pretty much always early voted.

RUSSELL: Appalachian State University ranks as the number one
employer in Watauga County. It makes sense to vote on campus and it makes
sense to be a polling place on campus.


MADDOW: Right. Voting is supposed to be easy, so more people can
exercise their right to do it. So where did the local board of elections
decide to reroute all those thousands of voters in Boone, North Carolina,
to do their voting?

They rerouted them down this long road that doesn`t have a sidewalk,
which is nowhere near a bus stop. But which does exist in vague proximity
to a bus route which uses the smallest buses they have in the local transit
system. It`s called the gold line. Check it out.


MOLLIE CLAWSON, ASU DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT: The bus will pick up from the
library circle every 30 minutes, and it`s about halfway down the route.
So, from the route to the library circle, and from the library circle, is
about 15 minutes each. If there`s too many people on the bus and they
can`t accommodate the students, they`ll leave the students behind. And,
you know, depending on my school schedule, depending on when I can catch
the bus, it can make it really difficult for me even to get on the bus, you
know, let alone other students as well.


MADDOW: Good luck getting a seat. You want to see the bus schedule
for the route that takes you to the voting place? Ta-da! It`s down there
in the corner. Welcome to the small print part of step one of the new
dangerous million-step process we have newly instituted for you to exercise
the right that used to be really easy.

Let me emphasize, though, even if you do get on that bus, the bus stop
closest to the new mega precinct for 9,000-something people is not at the
mega precinct exactly. Oh, whoops, there it is, that`s it, bye, hey, stop
the bus.

So, wear some sturdy shoes, intrepid voters. You`re going to need


CLAWSON: Got to be careful. This right here, this median or
shoulder, actually, I`m sorry, is the sidewalk. There is no other place to
walk, so it`s either this median -- or this shoulder or the tall grass.
This is not a sidewalk at all.

You see here we actually have to step on the road. In my shoes I`m
wearing would not work with this at all.

It`s really not in good condition. It puts me very close to the road.
And it`s pretty much just not a good place to walk at all. I can currently
put my feet forward and that`s it. And it`s getting smaller as we go.

Yes, this is Agricultural Conference Center right here.


CLAWSON: And do note that if you look, how small the parking lot is.




MADDOW: Yes, parking.

Be advised the ag center where you`ll have to vote, you 9,000-plus
voters, your new voting locale has roughly 30 parking spaces. And because
it`s going to be the only place in Boone to vote, about 20 of those 30
parking places will be taken up by the election workers. So, maybe be
ready to hover for a while I guess while you`re missing class and/or work?

This is how it works. If you don`t want to go through the Elizabeth
City-style hassle of just overtly disqualifying voters, just make it so
difficult for them to vote you can be pretty darn sure they won`t.


SCHERLEN: Students also tend to work in addition to taking classes.
How much time they have available on a Tuesday for voting?

RUSSELL: It`s a nonpartisan issue. I`ve seen friends from both sides
of the political sphere come together and say, hey, I`m concerned about
what`s happening, I want to vote on campus, it`s convenient. I don`t have
time to walk to the Agricultural Conference Center.

SCHERLEN: Our students make a large part of what Boone and Watauga
County are, and to deny them the right to participate in politics here is
unconscionable. I just -- I think it kind of completely denies the very
vital role that they play.


MADDOW: Unconscionable, the assessment of the local political science
professor. As for the nonpartisan part, for the record, we tried to
contact the Appalachian State student Republican leadership. But they did
not get back to us.

They did however offer this statement on a subject to a reporter.
"The Appalachian State College Republicans view the Board of Elections`
decision regarding voting locations as a simple change. We will easily
adapt. Given the new polling place`s close proximity to campus, this
change will in no way keep students from voting."

Close proximity to campus, plenty of parking, too, right? All very
nonpartisan. I got it.


MADDOW: We are here today reporting live from the great state of
North Carolina, but you know how it is. Whenever you go out on the road,
the whole world goes nuts.

In San Diego today, Mayor Bob Filner will reportedly finally step down
as mayor tomorrow, as part of a deal to settle a sexual harassment lawsuit
and massive scandal. That has been a long time coming.

In Egypt, former President Hosni Mubarak was freed from prison in
Cairo today. He was flown by helicopter to a military hospital in Cairo
where he`ll remain under house arrest.

And the Department of Justice today announced they will sue the state
of Texas in order to stop Texas` voter ID law. The Justice Department says
it plans its challenge under the part of the voting rights act that was not
gutted by the Supreme Court earlier this summer. In a statement, Attorney
General Eric Holder said this represents the department`s latest action to
protect voting rights but will not be our last.

The federal government is going to wade into Texas to stop what Texas
is going on voter suppression. If the administration says Texas won`t be
the last place that happens, what will be the next place that happens?

North Carolina`s new moves against voting rights are called the most
radical state-wide changes in voting rights since the Voting Rights Act was
passed in 1965. Does North Carolina need federal intervention in order to
protect its citizens` right to vote?

Joining us now is Congressman G.K. Butterfield. He represents
Elizabeth City, where we`ve been reporting from today and where we are
tonight. He`s a former voting rights attorney, himself, a former North
Carolina Supreme Court justice.

Congressman Butterfield, thank you so much for being here tonight.

REP. G.K. BUTTERFIELD (D), NORTH CAROLINA: Thank you. Thank you for
having me.

MADDOW: How do you explain what`s happening in your state? North
Carolina is a southern state with a pretty progressive history especially
on these issues. What`s happening?

BUTTERFIELD: First of all, Rachel, let me thank you very much for
coming to the region to report on this very sad story. Everything that you
have said over the last 30 or 40 minutes is absolutely correct. It`s an
embarrassment for our state.

We`re not that kind of state. Down through the years we have been a
progressive state. The Republicans have been locked out of state
government in North Carolina for many years. This is their power grab.
This is their opportunity to seize power.

There were three things standing in their way up until recently.
First of all, they didn`t control the legislature. They didn`t have
governor`s mansion. They had Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act standing
in their way.

President Obama had an unexpected victory here in North Carolina in
2008. We were so proud of that. But after President Obama`s victory, they
were determined to seize power. 2010, they won the state legislature, you
reported. 2012, Governor McCrory was elected. And on June 25th, as we all
know, the U.S. Supreme Court declared that Section 5 could not be enforced
because of the coverage formula.

And now, with those three obstacles out of the way, the Republicans
are now going full throttle, they`re doing everything within their power to
seize control of this state.

They recognize, as you reported, that the only way they`re going to be
able to maintain power in this state, is to diminish and to dilute African-
American votes in North Carolina. The African-American vote has been the
margin of victory for the Democratic Party, and this is all about
suppressing the black vote. We see right through it. We know exactly
what`s happening.

That`s why I called on Attorney General Eric Holder to not only
consider suing the state of Texas, which he did today, but to bring a
Section 2 lawsuit in North Carolina. There is intentional discrimination
ongoing and it certainly has a discriminatory effect.

MADDOW: As a longtime legislator and somebody with the judicial
background that you have, do you think the Justice Department will do that?
Do you expect they will?

BUTTERFIELD: Well, I certainly hope so. I spoke briefly with the
attorney general before I left Washington the other day about that. He is
well aware of what`s happening in North Carolina. I encouraged Eric Holder
to move some of the attorneys from the Section 5 unit over to the Section 2
unit, so that we can litigate more of these cases.

North Carolina is right for this type of case. There is no question
that we could successfully prove in North Carolina intentional
discrimination as well as discriminatory impact. We`ve got to move in
North Carolina. We`ve got to show the Republicans you just don`t reverse
30 years of progress with the stroke of a pen.

MADDOW: When these county election boards are making the kind of
decisions they are, closing the Appalachian state voting precinct and
combining those precincts, here at Elizabeth City challenging the right of
a student to run for office, which is the same right he would need to be
able to vote here. Do you think the counties are freelancing or do you
think this is a larger plan?

BUTTERFIELD: Well, it`s disgusting to say the least. I don`t believe
it`s a local plan of the Pasquotank Republican Party. I think this is
connected to the state and to National Republican Committee. This is a
national plan to disenfranchise voters for political advantage.

I know it. The people of Alomar (ph) Region know it. We`re going to
do everything we can to stop this overreach from the Republican Party.

MADDOW: Congressman G.K. Butterfield, representing Elizabeth City,
North Carolina, which has been so hospitable to us today -- thank you so
much, sir. A pleasure to have you here. Thank you.

All right. There is a place nearby here called the Great Dismal
Swamp, best place name in the country as far as I`m concerned. It turns
out it is as wicked important as it is intimidatingly named. And that
story is coming up.


MADDOW: This is THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW live from very near the Great
Dismal Swamp. Hold on. We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: This is almost a best new thing in the world today. To get
to Elizabeth City, North Carolina, today, I flew into Virginia and I got a
ride with Montravias King and I drove south with him. And just before we
crossed over the Virginia/North Carolina border, I had a "you`re not from
around here" moment -- very embarrassing.


MADDOW: The voter suppression bill as I`ve been calling it. Wow,
that plane came in -- oh, it`s crop dusting.

KING: Yes. Welcome to the countryside, in Virginia.

MADDOW: I was like OK, and then we filmed a plane crash on the
highway. No, no, crop dusting, very nice.


MADDOW: Welcome to the countryside, New York City. Not an attack.
We`re just being crop dusted.

More from Elizabeth City in just a moment.



MADDOW: So you`re from North Carolina, originally?

KING: Yes, I`m born and raised in eastern North Carolina. Small
town, you know where Greenville is, right?


KING: East Carolina, you know, Sandra Bullock, she studied there for
a while.

MADDOW: So growing up in eastern North Carolina, is that part of why
you decided to go to Elizabeth City?

KING: Well, part of the reason I decided to go to Elizabeth City is
because of my godmother, she is a retired educator, she went to Elizabeth
City back in the `70s. And she took me on a tour of Elizabeth City. As a
matter of fact, she pulled out the red carpet. She brought me and about
three of my friends up there in a stretch limousine.

MADDOW: You`re kidding.


KING: Yes, she told me, she said you are going here. Now, I wanted
to go to Morehouse, but she said, this is where you`re going at.


KING: And sure enough, I ended up going to Elizabeth City State
University. And I`m really glad I made that decision.

MADDOW: How about your friends in the limo, did they all end up
there, too?

KING: They went to other places.

MADDOW: She had the most leverage with you?

KING: Yes, she did.

MADDOW: Elizabeth City started as a teacher`s college, didn`t it?

KING: It started in 1881 as a state normal school. This guy Hugh
Cale who was the first black legislator, first black county commissioner of
Pasquotank County, he went on to found the school.

MADDOW: And now, it is -- as a historically black school, it is
mostly African-American, but it is diverse, right?

KING: That`s right. It is mostly African-American, but it is every
year, it gets more and more diverse.


MADDOW: When you drive to Elizabeth City from the nearest airport in
Norfolk, Virginia, you drive past the place I would put up against any
other place I know for the most foreboding place name in all of our county.
Forget badlands, forget devils anything, forget cheese quake, or belcher
town. When you drive from Norfolk and you cross the state line from
Virginia into North Carolina down toward Elizabeth City, you go through
Dismal Swamp, the great Dismal Swamp.

Dismal Swamp is a state park. The Dismal Swamp canal was dug by
slaves. It took 12 years to (AUDIO GAP) terrible conditions. But they
finished it. It was opened by 1805.

By the time the civil war rolled around 18 years later, that canal was
the life blood for the Confederacy. The Union forces blockaded the whole
southern coastline to stop the transportation and the supplying troops from
the sea during the Civil War. Well, that just made the south inland
waterways like the dismal swamp canal absolutely priceless to the South.

And in 1861 at the start of the civil war, Elizabeth City did great,
using those canals to supply the Confederate Army, which, of course, the
Union forces did not like, and so, they put a stop to it.

In 1862, the Union forces invaded and took over. They panicked locals
in Elizabeth City so much that they set fire to much of the most valuable
real estate in this town to stop it from coming under northern control.
Although, ultimately, the town put up a monument to the man who they say
saved the town from total destruction by surrendering on behalf to the city
to the Union forces.

And Elizabeth City, North Carolina, stayed under the occupying control
of the Union forces for the duration of the war. Thanks to the great
Dismal Swamp canal and its strategic location, it was too valuable for the
union to think they could give it up. So, they stayed.

After the Civil War was over, the semi-official history of the town
notes dryly that Elizabeth City saw the arrival of ambitious Northerners,
who assumed leading roles in the post-war development here. And that
reconstruction gets us to North Carolina having African-American
legislators, black legislators like the aforementioned Hugh Cale, who in
1891 sponsored state legislation to create a normal school here, to train
black educators to teach black students in this state. That was 1891.

And Elizabeth City State University has been through a few name
changes since then, but it is still here. It survived.

In the `60s, Elizabeth City integrated its public schools. The
whites-only high school became the junior high school. The blacks-only
high school became an elementary school because they eventually tore it

Now, Elizabeth City is known for its huge Coast Guard presence. The
naval air station here that used blimps to monitor the shipping canal
looking for German U-boats during World War II has evolved to make this
place a center, a hub in the world of high tech blimps, because there are
high tech blimps.

And now, the great Dismal Swamp is a park, and anybody arriving here
in this downtown by boat gets 48 hours free docking if space is available
and it is a beautiful place, lovely. And the people are nice.

But this place is on its way to nowhere. It is out of the way. You
have to try to be here if you want to be here. You are not going to
stumble upon it.

And the fight being waged here in this out of the way beautiful place
is actually a fight in some ways over lost ground. These are fights that
were already supposed to have been won.

Students in the South, specifically black students in the South fought
for and won the right to vote in past generations. But there has been
slippage, and now in 2013, Montravias King is not able to campaign for the
local office he is running for, instead has to campaign to be considered
eligible to run for office, to be considered eligible to even vote.

So far, they say he is not eligible. And if that stands it is a
precedent for taking the vote away from his student at his historically
black college in this town, that has been here since 1981. Every college
student in the state could be disenfranchised if this stands. While at the
same time, they are taking the vote away from everyone in the state who
doesn`t have ID, that black people and brown people and poor people
disproportionately do not have in the state.

If they rolled him, they rolled the state. And if they roll the
state, do you think they stop with this state?

This is an out of the way place. But just like 150 years ago, it is
one of immense strategic importance, not just symbolic importance, but
strategic importance.

And that does it for us tonight. Big thank you to Elizabeth City for
hosting us today. Everybody has been so nice.



Have a great night.


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