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PoliticsNation, Thursday, August 29th, 2013

August 29, 2013

Guests: Patrick Murphy; Adam Schiff, Goldie Taylor, Joe Madison, Jamal Simmons, Angela Rye

AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Thank you there, Ed.

Thanks to you for tuning in. Tonight`s lead, Commander in Chief
President Obama and this country`s allies are nearing a decision on whether
to strike Syria over the regime`s alleged use of chemical weapons. At this
very hour, top administration officials are briefing members of Congress
about the situation there on the chemical attacks that left hundreds dead
and what our military options are.

But taking this country in the war should never be done with the rush
to judgment and the President made that clear.


that we have not yet made a decision, but the international norm against
the use of chemical weapons needs to be kept in place and we are consulting
with our allies. We are consulting with the international community. And,
you know, I have no interest in any kind of open-ended conflict in Syria.
But we do have to make sure that when countries break international
enormous on weapons like chemical weapons that could threaten us, that they
are held accountable.


SHARPTON: Yes. Someone needs to be held accountable. And the
rationale for a strike isn`t cut and dry. As the "Associated Press"
reports, the case against Syrian President Assad is no slam-dunk. And
there are questions remaining about who actually controls some Syria`s
chemical weapons stores. So is it any wonder that this president isn`t
rushing head-first into war? This is the same commander in chief who had
to lead us out of two wars. Who has witnessed the toll of these conflicts.
He is trying to make the best decision for this country. But that`s not
good enough for some.


of what you`re going to do for the enemy is mindless. I can`t imagine what
they`re thinking. Why they would want the Assad regime to have crystal
clarity with respect to what they have done.


SHARPTON: Mr. Rumsfeld broke the irony media with that one. What is
mindless is the architect of the Iraq war giving our president advice.
Here is a hint, Mr. Rumsfeld. President Obama is trying to avoid the
mistakes you and others made.


OBAMA: We can take limited, tailored approaches, not getting drawn
into a long conflict. Not a repetition of Iraq, which I know a lot of
people are worried about. But if we are saying in a clear and divisive but
very limited way, we send a shot across the bow saying stop doing this.
That can have a positive impact on our national security over the long


SHARPTON: Wars shouldn`t be taken lightly, and the president knows

Joining me now are Congressman Adam Schiff, Democrat from California,
and member of the house permanent select committee on intelligence, and
former Congressman Patrick Murphy, Democrat from Pennsylvania. He is the
first Iraq war veteran elected to Congress.

Thank you both for coming on the show tonight.



SHARPTON: Congressman Schiff, you`re on the intelligence committee.
What can you tell us about any intervention in Syria at this point?

SCHIFF: Well, I can tell you that there is substantial evidence that
Assad used chemical weapons. This is not the first time the regime has
used chemical weapons. You know, there are still some gaps that need to be
filled. And I for one want to see the clinical evidence that the United
Nations and our agencies are gathering. But there is very substantial
evidence. And I think the president is right that this is something that
the international community must hold the regime accountable for. It has
to be done in consultation with our allies.

And I can certainly understand the president wanting to get this
right, this Specter of Iraq hangs over all of our heads. We want to make
sure that the intelligence is solid, that we`re going on the basis of good
information if we go, and if there are military strikes.

I think he is also right that they need to be focused on the chemical
weapons threat and not become an effort to topple the regime. We don`t
want to get entangled in this civil war. The president is doing this in a
thoughtful, analytical way, and that`s exactly what he has to do.

SHARPTON: You know, former secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld said
that the president hasn`t justified action in Syria. Listen to this.


RUMSFELD: One thing that is very interesting, it seems to me, is that
there really hasn`t been any indication from the administration as to what
our national interest is with respect to this particular situation.


SHARPTON: How do you respond to that, Congressman Murphy?

MURPHY: Well, Reverend Al, I tell you, you know, this is a solemn
moment right now in our country. We are trying to do the right thing. We
are trying to figure this out, our military leaders, our commander in
chief. See, we think in this time during its defining moment that Rummy
(ph) would have the decency to keep his mouth shut, but he just can`t help
himself. And I think it`s a real disservice to our country when we should
be coming together right now and not trying to point fingers here and

SHARPTON: Let me ask you, Congressman Schiff, the parliament just
voted in England not to go into an intervention perceived as a defeat for
Prime Minister Cameron there. Do you have any sense if your colleagues
were called back into session where the Congress would go on this, or are
we too early in these kinds over considerations?

SCHIFF: Well, that`s a really good question. I think the speaker
should call us back into session. I think we ought to be --

SHARPTON: You do think the speaker should call you all back in?

SCHIFF: I do, I do. I think we should come back into session. We
should be in thorough consultation with the executive. I have had access
to the intelligence, but members that are not on the intelligence committee
have not. And I think by and large, they should come back into town. They
should review the intelligence, and we should have a full discussion about

And I think that call should have gone out already where the Congress
would be ultimately probably depends on the quality of that intelligence
and whether it is confirmed that chemical weapons have been used.

The president`s decision, I have to say, just got much more difficult
given what happened in the British parliament. I think it`s
extraordinarily important that this be done in combination with other
nations, because it has to be an international taboo on the use of chemical
weapons. It can`t just be the United States saying this violates the norm.
This violates the laws of war. The international community has to decide
to hold this regime accountable. And I think that just got more difficult
with the vote in the British parliament.

SHARPTON: Because the reason that I asked you twice about you do
think the speaker should call the session, call Congress back in session.
Speaker Boehner sent a note to the president. He sent a letter saying that
the president should make the case to the American people in Congress for
how potential military action will secure American national security

But even after sending that letter, as of right now, you have no
indication that Boehner, Speaker Boehner is in fact calling people back to
session. At this point, it`s just a letter that really has no action
attached to it by Speaker Boehner.

SCHIFF: I think that`s right. I see no indication that the speaker
is prepared to call us back into session. And perhaps that letter is his
way of avoiding calling us back into session and placing the burden on the
president to communicate to call of us during this recess.

But I think given the gravity of the situation, given the stakes that
are involved, members should be called back from their districts. This is
something we should be debating, just as the British parliament has. There
is a difficult constitutional question about whether we need a vote of
approval here.


SCHIFF: But whether we have a vote or we have consultation, either
way, I think the members ought to be back at their guests.

SHARPTON: Now, Congressman Murphy, you talked about this is the time
Americans should be coming together. But some on the right, like Senator
Ted Cruz have tried already to use Syria as a political football. Listen
to this.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Fundamentally, actually, these two issues.
You look at Syria, you look at Obama care and they`re tied together. They
are tied together by an arrogance of this administration that they don`t
believe they`re accountable to the American people. And they are going to
jam their agenda down the throats of the American people.


SHARPTON: That`s Senator Ted Cruz already raising this while talking
on the radio show of the head of the Republican Party, Rush Limbaugh.

Congressman, your response to Ted Cruz.

MURPHY: Yes, Reverend, when Ted Cruz talks about accountability and
shoving things down, it get my iris up because Congress wants to punt the
ball. You hear Congressman Adam Schiff, who is a great member of congress.
Him and I served on the intelligence committee together. He is being
thoughtful. He is saying let`s get back together. Let`s figure out the
evidence, let`s see where it takes us before we act. The Republicans, John
Boehner, Ted Cruz, they just want to keep throwing grenades over at Barack
Obama and pointing fingers. Why don`t they call. Why don`t they come back
to Washington. Why don`t we come together? Because right now President
Obama has three audiences. He does have the American people.

But secondly, he has the Congress of the United States, where in that
constitution that Ted Cruz and the tea party folks want to keep citing,
Congress has the authority to declare war or these acts of war. Not the
president. So why isn`t Congress getting back in and figuring that out?

And thirdly, the United Nations Security Council. Rev, we should call
for an emergency national security meeting to get the record Russia and
China where they`re going to stand when these were crimes, when these
weapons are used against women and children and they are being slaughtered,
where are they when it comes down to the Assad regime.

SHARPTON: And it`s interesting, Congressman Schiff, when you have
Cruz saying trying to tie Obama care and Syria together and making some
political point like the president is stepping over the bounds. Last time
I looked, you`re a member of congress, Obamacare was the law and available
by the Supreme Court. What is he talking about?

SCHIFF: Well, it is exactly and it is pretty amazing when you can
bring Obamacare or health care and tie it in with Syria. I wouldn`t have
thought that was even rhetorically possible. But it makes so transparent
the fact that it`s simply a political attack. And they`ll go after this
president on anything if the president does too much in Syria, they`ll go
after him. If he does too little in Syria, even if he gets it just in
Syria, they`ll go after him. But I think it couldn`t be more obvious when
they`re trying to bring Obamacare into the Syria debate.

SHARPTON: Congressman Adam Schiff and former congressman Patrick
Murphy, thank you both for your time this evening.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

MURPHY: Thanks, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up can, Republican leaders did not attend the march
on Washington. But wait until you hear where they were instead. It`s
amazing. And it really shows their priorities.

Plus, the expert on race is back at it again. Bill O`Reilly`s failed
argument on the march.

Plus, look out, right wingers. It`s Bill Clinton versus Sarah Palin
on Obamacare. Wonder how this political title fight might end.

And friend or foe, I want to know. E-mail me what`s on your mind.
"Reply Al" is ahead.


SHARPTON: We have been asking our MSNBC family to tell us what they
are doing in their communities to advance Dr. King`s dream and we`ve
received some great responses.

The quality of life center in Florida tweets we are advancing the
dream by instilling academic, artistic, and internal self-confidence within
our children.

Love that picture.

Joe tells us he is advancing the dream by teaching our youth Dr.
King`s impact can be felt today.

Right on, Joe.

Black light said, I have a dream, and today I start making it a
reality. Excited for first day back to school.

Way to go and good luck.

We want to hear how you`re getting involved. Please head to advancing
the and use #advancingthedream and tweet us a picture
showing how you`re helping us move forward.



OBAMA: The measure of progress for those who marched 50 years ago was
not merely how many blacks could join the ranks of millionaires. It was
whether this country would admit all people who were willing to work hard,
regardless of race, into the ranks of a middle class life.


SHARPTON: Fighting to expand the middle class in the face of massive
inequality. Today fast food workers are out striking in 50 cities across
the country. They Are people working full-time, struggling to make ends
meet. And as these workingmen and women fight for livable wage, we get
this news today, that U.S. banks made record profits in the last quarter.
Instead of trying to level the playing field, Republicans attack the poor.

Here is new video of Congressman Steve King, comparing unemployed
people to children.


REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: Now, what kind of a family if you had six
kids and a third of your kids would say I`m not doing the chores, mom. If
any of them say I refuse, I`m not going to participate. I`m not going
contribute to the American GDP, pretty soon those kids would be on the you
get to eat after you do the work. Not just in hopes that you might one day
actually do the work.


SHARPTON: People struggling to find work are like kids who don`t do
chores? It`s just the latest attack in the right. Republican congressman
Dave Joyce was caught on tape saying this.


REP. DAVE JOYCE (R), OHIO: There`s three million jobs every month in
this country that go unfilled. And the trouble is it`s because they either
can`t find people to come and work sober daily, drug-free, and want to
learn the necessary skills going forward to be able to do those kind of


SHARPTON: This ugliness doesn`t address the real problems facing the
unemployed. But it`s not surprising when the leader of the right wing says


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, at poverty in this country. Everybody out
of work is eating. They have got a big screen TV, probably have a car,
probably have a cell phone that they`re using. And they got a place to
live. Being out of work is not poverty.


SHARPTON: Everybody out of work has a place to live. Does he think
they should be homeless? These guys aren`t serious about the real
inequalities we face in this country, but President Obama is.

Joining me now is Jared Bernstein, former chief economist for vice
president Biden.

Thanks for being here, Jared.


SHARPTON: Now, workers are fighting for the minimum wage, and banks
are making record profits. What should Congress be doing to fight the
inequality we see in this country, Jared?

BERNSTEIN: Very simply, they should raise the minimum wage. You
know, by the way, there were lots of Republicans, over 60 who supported
minimum wage increase when George Bush proposed it the last time we raised
it back in 2007. So this is not an issue that is that foreign to
Republicans, in no small part but it just polls through the roof.

People recognize that a wage floor of $7.25 not a very low wage floor
in our economy, but very low by measures of other advanced economies is
something that is popular because, a, it doesn`t have any budgetary
implications. And b, it helps working people get reconnected to a growing
economy that has largely left them behind.

SHARPTON: You know, you`re right. Because when you look at the
polling, polls show raising minimum wage is really hugely popular. Gallup
poll found 71 percent of Americans support it, including 75 percent of
moderates, and even 54 percent of conservatives. And the fight for higher
minimum wage goes all the way back to the first march on Washington.

Did you know, Jared, the organizers wanted a national minimum wage to,
quote, "give all Americans a decent standard of living." This is in the
`63 march. They wanted it to be $2 an hour then. I mean, why is the
minimum wage such a crucial part in the fight for equality, Jared?

BERNSTEIN: Well first of all that, would be $10 an hour in today`s
dollars, adjusting for inflation. Because it adjusts the wage floor for so
many of the working poor. You know, who has the least amount of bargaining
power in this country? Minorities, people with less than a college
education, folks who are stuck in low-wage jobs.

Now, maybe there was a time years ago, particularly when we`re talking
about non-minorities when folks passed through those minimum wage jobs on
the way to better jobs. But we now know many people, disproportionately
minorities, but whites as well have been stuck in those jobs. And if you
just ask the average guy or gal on the street what makes more sense to you,
banks that just posted a 23 percent profit over last year, $42 billion in
one quarter, that`s a record.

The last record by the way was the previous quarter. It was about 40
billion or doing something that would help steer a little bit more of the
growth to workers who are helping, frankly, to bake a larger economic pie,
but ending up with smaller slices.

SHARPTON: You know, but top Republicans aren`t completely opposed to.
This listen to. This.


with the minimum wage issue for the last 28 years that I have been in
elected office. And when you raise the price of employment, guess what
happens? You get less of it.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: A minimum wage law, as good as it may
sound at the outset, is not the way to do it.

minimum wage, and history is very clear about this, doesn`t actually
accomplish those goals.


SHARPTON: You know, Jared, the American people overwhelmingly want to
see it done. They support the minimum wage being raised. Do you think
Republicans will change their minds as they get closer to the midterm

BERNSTEIN: Perhaps because of its popularity.

But let me just say, what Paul Ryan just said history is very clear on this
point that minimum wage hurts low-wage workers is exactly opposite.
History is very railroad clear on the point that moderate increases in the
minimum wage, which is what the president has proposed and what Congress
ought to be considering right now have actually done exactly what it`s
intended to do, to lift the earnings prospects of low wage work areas bit
without hurting their employment prospects.

We have lots of economic research, quite high quality because we`ve
been able to measure the differences over time and between states, kind of
a pseudo experimental approach so we can see how the minimum wage actually
affects people`s jobs.

As I said, the benefits to low wage workers far outweigh the costs.
If history is what Paul Ryan said it was, ask yourself why are all those
low-wage workers out there on the streets, lobbying for a higher minimum
wage? Because they want to lose their jobs? They understand their
economics way better than anybody in Congress.

SHARPTON: Well, and the contrast is striking. When you look at the
contrast between the rich and the poor, Jared, it`s staggering. Since
1978, workers compensation has only risen five percent, while CEOs
compensation is up 875 percent. I mean, this is staggering.

BERNSTEIN: Exactly. And, again, people understand this. They
recognize even if you`re solidly ensconced in the middle class and you`re
doing OK, and let`s face it, a lot of middle class people are struggling as


BERNSTEIN: You recognize that the growth in this economy has really
done an end run around middle and lower income folks. I mean, for far too
long, growth has been a spectator sport. You read about it in the
newspaper, productivity growth, bank profits. And there, if you follow
these fast food workers, these are folks telling you I have been working
for two, three, five years at a job that started out at $7.25 and has now
moved me up to $8 bucks an hour. There is no one who can survive, no
grownup with a family who can survive at that level.

SHARPTON: Jared Bernstein, thank you for your time tonight.

BERNSTEIN: Thank you, sir.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, it`s shaping up to be a political prize fight,
Bill Clinton against Sarah Palin on Obamacare.

Plus, Bill O`Reilly offers up an excuse for why Republican leaders
didn`t show up to the march on Washington. You to hear it to believe it.
Stay with us.


SHARPTON: No Republican leaders attended yesterday`s anniversary of
the march on Washington. Too busy? That`s one way to describe it. GOP
lost, found, and still lost. That`s next.


SHARPTON: We`re back with the right wing reaction to the celebration
of the march on Washington. Let`s hear from the experts, shall we?


BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Grievance mongering does the cause of
civil rights no good whatsoever, period.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: All we heard was here are the problems. Stop and
frisk. Here are the problems, Trayvon Martin.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Multiple references made to Trayvon

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: It`s a near crime what is being
done here to take the occasion of this man`s great address and what he
stood for and basically hijack it for President Barack Obama. If I were
President Obama, I would be a little embarrassed I can`t stand on my own.


SHARPTON: This is the kind of talk dragging down the Republican
Party. The real embarrassment is the GOP minority outreach plan. After
their 2012 shellacking, the GOP announced a big rebranding effort. They
were going to widen the tent. Earlier this week, the Republican National
Committee held its own event commemorating the march on Washington. But
yesterday, as the nation celebrated Dr. King`s legacy, leading Republicans
did not show up, even though they were invited to speak. Clearly it wasn`t
a priority. They missed an opportunity to show they were at least trying
to reach out. But Bill O`Reilly refuses to believe it. "The Huffington
Post" calls it O`Reilly`s major mistake.


O`REILLY: Today`s event excluded black the Republicans and
conservatives. All the speakers were Democrats. That was a glaring error
and does not indicate a desire for inclusion. Wasn`t it a little strange
we didn`t have one black conservative or one black republican? I mean, did
invitations get lost in the mail or what?

JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: You know, the former president
speaking I think was appropriate.

O`REILLY: Is that George W. Bush being the former president?

CARVILLE: I do know that he wasn`t invited.

O`REILLY: He wasn`t.

CARVILLE: OK, I have no idea why he wasn`t invited.

O`REILLY: No Republicans and no conservatives were invited.


SHARPTON: Actually, that`s not true. He is wrong. Both former
President Bushes were invited to speak. Speaker Boehner and Majority
Leader Cantor were invited to speak. Former Governor Jeb Bush and Senator
John McCain were also invited. So if they`re serious about outreach, oh, I
don`t know, maybe attending the march on Washington would have helped.

Joining me now are Goldie Taylor and Joe Madison. Thank you both for
being here.


GOLDIE TAYLOR, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks for having us, Reverend

SHARPTON: You know, Bill O`Reilly, Goldie, is complaining that
Republicans weren`t invited. But we know he is wrong. How can a party
claiming to reach out to minority voters not show up for a commemoration
like this? I`m not talking about the march Saturday? I`m talking about the
commemoration with three presidents of the United States.

TAYLOR: You know, and they really were two different events. The
march on Saturday was about bringing the youth together and advancing the
cause by, you know, getting a critical mass of people on the mall. And the
second day was the actual memorial, where it would have been an opportune
time for members of both parties to come together united to commemorate
this transformative speech. It is a missed moment. And to have some of
these talk radio hosts. I saw Herman Cain on twitter last night
complaining that Senator Tim Scott from South Carolina, you know, was not
invited, was not invited to speak. Neither of those things is true.

And so this really is a missed moment. If this GOP is going to remain
a national party, it will have to broaden its tent. It will have to reach
out to African-Americans, to Hispanics, to LGBT community in meaningful
ways and speak to the issues that are most pressing to them in ways that
will resonate.


TAYLOR: They have failed to do that. And, you know, yesterday`s
march was just one more missed opportunity.

SHARPTON: Yes. And see, Joe, and Senator Scott was invited to
attend, not speak yesterday. And, again, this was a commemoration for the
nation. Three presidents, including the sitting president, the leaders of
the party invited to come and speak. The two former republican presidents
invited to speak. This clearly wasn`t something they could have done.
Fine. Saturday we had -- we wanted to take positions, issues they may not
have agreed with. Yesterday was not that but let me show you something.

Eric Cantor, where was he? This is amazing. We learned he chose to
meet with oil industry lobbyists in North Dakota instead of speaking at the
march. He was invited to speak. The Grand Forks Herald reports that he
talked about his farm bill, among other things, and has got a picture of
him at a podium right next to a fellow republican congressman. So he was
speaking with the oil industry lobbyists rather than commemorating one of
the greatest days in American history.

MADISON: Well, and of course it was the little people who walked out
today at the fast food places that were there. You did a magnificent job
pulling everybody together the Saturday before. But, you know, let me say
something about this outreach effort that came about because they did an
autopsy after the election of President Barack Obama. You know, I think we
forget. Autopsies are done on dead people. This is a dead party.


MADISON: You can`t -- you don`t do autopsies on living things. And
so the reality is, you know, like you sit there and think, you didn`t know
that the 50th anniversary was going to happen? I change my schedule. You
changed your schedule. Over 200,000 people changed their schedule. They
knew this was going to happen. And for people out there in the middle part
of the country, understand. Every last leader on the Republican Party knew
darn well that they were going to get an invitation, because that`s how
things are done in Washington, D.C.

SHARPTON: Well, let me say this too, Goldie.


SHARPTON: Let us not forget there were leading Republicans, Jackie
Robinson one of them.

MADISON: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Who helped lead the march in `63.

TAYLOR: Absolutely. Absolutely.

SHARPTON: The first black elected to a U.S. senator in 1968 was a
republican named Ed Brook. And so while we`re talking about this march,
we`re talking about 50 years of celebrating what black Republicans and
white Republicans helped to do 50 years ago. But, no, rather than do that,
we have Bill O`Reilly taking the moment to attack the unemployed. Listen
to this.


O`REILLY: Even if jobs become more plentiful, you have to be able to
do them. You have to speak proper English, be able to do basic math, and
conduct yourself responsibly. America remains a land of opportunity, but
only for those who are honest and responsible. If you are irresponsible,
lazy, and/or corrupt, this country can be a tough place.


SHARPTON: If you are irresponsible, lazy, or corrupt, this country
can be a tough place. Unable to speak proper English. I mean, is this
somebody we ought to be taking seriously?

TAYLOR: You know, unfortunately, too many people do. This kind of
wholesale maligning of an entire race and class of people is simply
unconscionable. If he were truly about the business of the legacy of Dr.
King, then he would know that to address not only personal responsibility,
but those very structural issues that keep people, that create the kinds of
barriers that people can`t survive, cope, and make it on. You know, if we
were to take a look, for instance, at the minimum wage and adjust for
inflation, it would be at least $10 today. People need meaningful jobs at
meaningful wages. That will help break the cycle investing in meaningful
education, that will help break the cycle.

SHARPTON: But even if you don`t agree with the ways that some of us
may on another party or in civil rights.


SHARPTON: Or in labor have, at least propose your method of how to
deal with unemployment. Don`t mock them. Don`t try and scorn them. Joe
Madison, it is the kind of language in these times.

MADISON: Absolutely.

SHARPTON: .that reminds us of the abrasive language of 50 years ago.
Let me play you where two southern senators told NBC News about minority
rights directly after Dr. King`s speech in `63.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: What about the people that are not here today? The
Congress is going to be weak. It will run from any group or pass
legislation in one particular group fort.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I`m opposed to this kind of thing of trying to
acquire additional rights for one group by taking them away from others.


SHARPTON: So this mocking kind of thing, we see it updated now by the
irresponsible, corrupt. I mean, why can`t we talk policy if you have a
different view, or it is that you just really have no position that will
help people get jobs?

MADISON: Oh, they`ve got a position. Look, what you just saw,
America, is the face of Jim Crow. Now, you put O`Reilly up, you put
Limbaugh up, and it`s Jim Crow`s grandson, James Crow Esquire, as simply as
that we ought to quit playing games with these people. They talk in the
abstract. We know what they`re saying. We all know what they`re saying.


MADISON: And the reality is if Tea Party or somebody else had a rally
like that you had and we had on Saturday and they had on yesterday, I bet
you it wouldn`t look like America. And they know that. And so the only
thing that they can do is try to disrespect us. But the reality is what
you see in those photographs, that`s America. And they know it. And they
know that if they don`t wake up, they`re going to be a party out of power
very soon.

SHARPTON: Goldie Taylor and Joe Madison, I`m going to leave it right
there. Thanks for your time.

MADISON: Thank you.

TAYLOR: Thanks for having us.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, the secretary of explaining stuff is back.
And he is about to explain a lot to Sarah Palin. This is about to get to
be fun.


SHARPTON: The right wingers are out yelling to defund Obamacare.
They`re threatening a government shutdown. But guess who is coming to


FMR. PRES. BILL CLINTON (D), UNITED STATES: Let`s take a look at what
has actually happened so far. First, individuals and businesses have
already gotten more than a billion dollars in refunds from insurance
companies. Millions of seniors are receiving preventative care. More than
three million young people between 19 and 25 are insured for the first time
because their parents` policies can cover them.


Let me ask you something. Are we better off because President Obama
fought for health care reform? You bet we are.


SHARPTON: Yes, the secretary of explaining stuff will make the case
for Obamacare. Next week in speech at his presidential library in
Arkansas. But I`m sure the Republicans have someone of equal stature in
their corner, right?




SHARPTON: Yes, former half Governor Sarah Palin is back too. "This
beast must be stopped by not funding it today, Todd and I joined with many
of our fellow citizens to urge those in the U.S. Senate not to fund
Obamacare." So it`s Bill Clinton versus Sarah Palin. I wonder how this
will end.

Joining me now is Jamal Simmons and Angela Rye. Thanks for being here



SHARPTON: Jamal, this is going to be fun. What do you expect Bill
Clinton to do next week?

SIMMONS: Well, as you said, he is the secretary of explaining stuff.
For the last 20 years of American life, we`ve had the joy of watching Bill
Clinton really talking about these issues that he finds to be important,
that all of us find important like health care. And when you think about
Sarah Palin, though, you know, she said, famously said she could see Russia
from Alaska. She ought to be uninsured from Alaska too. There are 139,400
uninsured people in the state of Alaska. She wants to un-fund this effort
to get them insurance. I don`t understand why the Republicans take upon
themselves this idea that we ought to not be insuring people who need
health care. They have no alternative to give us another way to get these
people covered.

SHARPTON: Angela, Sarah Palin loves to attack Obamacare. Watch this.


PALIN: It`s in black and white in the law that there will be
rationing of health care. Death panels are a part of this atrocity. Not
only does it strip away our freedoms as Americans, but Obamacare will
bankrupt so many businesses. It`s very important for conservatives, fiscal
conservatives and independents to stand up. And if you`re going to go
down, at least go down screaming.


SHARPTON: If you`re going to go down, go down screaming. I mean,
even she admits they`re going to lose. They`re going to go down. And just
about everything she stated was patently untrue.

RYE: Right. And they continue with this foolishness. Like there is
just no explanation for this. It`s clear that Sarah Palin and her imps did
not read this bill. This bill not only provides opportunities for
underinsured and uninsured people to have premiums go down lower, decrease.
Students will be able to stay on their parents` plans for much longer. I
have no idea why they continue with this. The only explanation is
insanity. They continue to do the same thing over and over again. Not
only have there been 40 votes in the House of Representatives to defund and
repeal Obamacare, it has also been several other amendments, Rev.

Those are the things that are underreported thousands of times. So
there is just no explanation for this. And to make matters worse and to
add insult to injury, they missed the commemoration and tweeted all day
about Obamacare and what is wrong with it. And again to your point, all
lies. All lies.

SHARPTON: So, you know, it`s Bill Clinton, Jamal versus Sarah Palin.
Let`s go to the tape. Let`s go to the approval ratings. President Clinton
sat 71 percent. Sarah Palin is at 35 percent. How worried are Republicans
about Palin getting back into the spotlight on health care, Jamal?

SIMMONS: They ought to be really worried. You know, Sarah Palin is a
great entertainer. A lot of people find her enjoyable to kind of listen to
her, you know, pipe off on FOX News. But that is not really a lot of
substance there, as you called her the half governor. She couldn`t even
finish out an entire term as governor of Alaska. Let alone the disastrous
turn as a vice presidential nominee. The last thing I think most
reasonable Republicans, a few of them who are left want is to see Sarah
Palin be the banner carrier for their party.

SHARPTON: Now, Angela, the Clinton is not only more popular with
approval ratings, he`s got the facts on his side. Here is their real
problem. Affordable health care is popular because 61 percent favored
allowing young adults to stay on their parents` insurance plan until age
26. Seventy two percent want to require companies with more than 50
workers to provide health insurance for their employees. Eighty two
percent want to ban insurance companies from denying coverage to people
with preexisting conditions.

I mean, the affordable care act will actually save money for people
working for smaller businesses. Employees would have to -- employees would
have paid over $6,000 without Obamacare in 2016. With Obamacare, they will
only pay 5800. That`s $355 in saving. If that sounds like the fears over
the costs are overblown, I don`t know what does.

RYE: Well, not just overblown, just patently false. You have
companies that are blaming Obamacare for the reason for the rise in
premiums when premiums have been rising for well over ten years. You have
the Republicans saying to, you know, we don`t support an individual mandate
when it`s the republican idea literally that came from yes, Jim DeMint`s
Heritage Foundation. Yes, Steve Forbes who is a trustee on the Heritage
Foundation board. This is a republican ideal that it was originally a
bipartisan thing that we could all support. And in fact, Democrats were
trying to get employers to have to cover health care. This should not be a
privilege. Health care access should be something that is a right, that is
deserved for all American people.

SHARPTON: What the President having Clinton turning, the Clinton
making the speech next week, Jamal, will that be an important development
in your opinion?

SIMMONS: Well, I think so. Listen, we were all around in 2007-2008
during that massive primary between Hillary Clinton and then also Bill
Clinton and Barack Obama. We saw some of the acrimony that took place. To
see these two halves of the Democratic Party coming together, uniting
around something that is so important after having Secretary Clinton in the
administration, I think what we`re seeing is the Democratic Party has not
split. The Democratic Party is united. The Republicans, however are,
still at war with each other, trying to figure out how they move forward
after the disastrous two election losses they`ve had in the last couple of

SHARPTON: All right. Jamal Simmons and Angela Rye. Let me say to
both of you, if I had the memo, I would have worn my glasses too. Thank
you for being on the show tonight.


RYE: Thanks, Rev.

SIMMONS: Good to see you.

SHARPTON: Friend or foe, I want to know. "Reply Al" is next. And
we`re celebrating.


SHARPTON: It`s time for "Reply Al." Remember, friend or foe, I want
to know.

Vivian writes, "What would you say to people who support voter ID laws
and believe voter suppression is a liberal lie?"

Well, they should check the data. Numbers don`t lie. When we looked
at government data on how many people had committed a fraud by voting with
ID, false ID, we came with .0003. That`s data out of a Bush administration
study at Justice Department. So where is the fraud? We always had ID.
Why do we need new ID now, different ID, when we had no problem with fraud
with the traditional ID people have always used?

And finally tonight, a very happy anniversary to POLITICS NATION. Two
years ago tonight, we started this show here on MSNBC. It`s been a great
two years and a privilege to bring this show to you every night. I want to
thank everyone in POLITICS NATION for watching, even my foes, because it
has been a great two years, and we expect to go for years to come. I want
to thank a young, vigorous staff. I want to thank all of those that make
this show happen every night. And I`m serious. I want to thank my
critics. They make me sharper. They keep me in shape. You know you can`t
have a champion if you don`t have good sparring partners.

Thank you, guys. Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL"
starts right now.


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