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PoliticsNation, Monday, August 7, 2013

Read the transcript from the Monday

October 7, 2013

Guests: J. David Cox; Jan Schakowsky; Cynthia Tucker, Joan Walsh, Eric

REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good evening, Ed and thanks to you
for tuning in.

Tonight`s Lead, let`s have a vote. House Speaker John Boehner is the
one man in Washington who could stop the government shutdown today, right
now, immediately. But he claims, "The votes aren`t there."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I take it from the rest of the year, I`m not
prepared to schedule a clean vote on government funding right now?

BOEHNER: There are not the votes in the house that pay us a clean CR.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you sure that`s true?


SHARPTON: Yeah are you sure that`s true? 195 Democrats have called
for clean vote on a continuing resolution to fund the government. And NBC
news reports 22 Republicans would sign on. That would be enough to pass
it. But you don`t have to take my word for it. Just ask Republican
Congressman Peter King. He says, quote, "I`m positive that a clean bill
would pass. If it went on the floor tomorrow, I could see anywhere from 50
to 75 Republicans voting for it. And if it were a secret ballot, 150."

The votes are there. But John Boehner is afraid to stand up to the
tea party. And President Obama called him out on it today.


is there are enough Republican and Democratic votes in the House of
Representatives right now to end the shutdown immediately, just vote. Let
every member of Congress vote their conscience and they can determine
whether or not they want to shut the government down.

My strong suspicion is, my very strong suspicion is that there are
enough votes there. And the reason that Speaker Boehner hasn`t called a
vote on it is because he doesn`t apparently want to see the government
shutdown end at the moment. Hold the vote.

Call a vote right now and let`s see what happens.


SHARPTON: Boehner won`t hold a vote because he doesn`t want the
shutdown to end. We have told you how this crisis is closing head start
programs and taking food aid away from poor mothers and children. But it`s
also hurting the small business owners. That the Republicans invoke so


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: No lake means no business for (INAUDIBLE)
repost. A fishing tournament with hundreds of law enforcement officers
from San Antonio scheduled for this weekend canceled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is really bad. What would have happened this
week would have been about a month`s worth of salary for this hotel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: For tour companies who hike people into
the Canyon, this is devastating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All those tours coming in completely canceled.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The shutdown is hitting local
businesses hard like the national park market employees. Their say, they
recently open and rely on out of town visitors.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they can`t get into the park, then they`re
just -- I think they`ll just pass on by.


SHARPTON: The longer this shutdown goes, the more it hurts real
people across the country. So how much longer is John Boehner going to
pretend he can`t stop it?

Joining me now is Congressman Jan Schakowsky, Democrat of Illinois and
Jay David Cox, president of the American federation of government
employees. He represents hundreds of thousands who are worried they won`t
get their next paycheck.

Thank you both for being here tonight.

REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D), ILLINOIS: Thank you, Reverend Al.

Thank you very much.

SHARPTON: Congresswoman, couldn`t speaker Boehner end the shutdown
today if he just stood up to t tea party?

SCHAKOWSKY: He is the one man, as you said, who could simply call a
vote. It would pass, it wound end. And if he is afraid to call it because
he thinks he`s going to lose his speakership, he is going to lose his
speakership if he continues it for sure. We just had a poll in 24
Republican districts and found that if you say that this member or voter to
shutdown the government, the 20 of those are losing to Democrats. We only
need 17 seats to take back the house. So, he is jeopardizing not only his
speakership, but he is certainly jeopardizing it in two ways.

SHARPTON: Well, we are going to talk a lot about that ahead.

But let me ask you, a new poll, Congresswoman, says that people are
clear who to blame for the shutdown, 70 percent of Americans disapproves of
Republicans in Congress. That`s up seven percent in just one week.

Republicans have tried all kinds of piecemeal bills to fund the
government and avoid blame for the shutdown. But Congresswoman, do these
numbers show that is not working the way they are trying to shift the blame
in this discussion?

SCHAKOWSKY: You know, the funny thing is that they are discovering
the government really does do important things. I mean, the first thing
was, you mean when we shut down the government that the monuments like the
World War II monument aren`t going to be open?

And one by one, they are figuring it out. That government is doing
things that are not only important to the employees that President Cox
represents, but to the American people who just want to go about their
daily lives with the functions of government in place.

SHARPTON: Now, let me go to you, J. David Cox.

The president today spoke at FEMA headquarters after furloughed
workers were called back to work to prepare for the storms this weekend.
Here`s what he said.


OBAMA: Here you are somebody who is a FEMA professional dedicated to
doing your job. In a moments now, as you are willing to show up here in
case people got in trouble and respond to them even though you are not
getting paid, even though you don`t have certainty. And now you`re being
put back on furlough because the government is shut down. That`s no way of
doing business.


SHARPTON: J. David, you represent hundreds of thousands of these
workers who are either working without pay or aren`t allowed to go to work.
Are many of these people that you represent living from paycheck to
paycheck? Give me some kind of sense of what a lot of these workers are
going through because I had one congressman that came on the show saying
this would be like a paid vacation, they will get their money later. They
can just kind of take a paid vacation now.

COX: Reverend Al, these folks most of them make an average of $500 a
week take home. They are living paycheck to paycheck. And federal
employees want to go to work. They want to go to work, process Social
Security claims, process Veterans claims, inspect the food, make this
country safe, protect us from criminals. We want to go to work, and these
people are going to feel pain, those that are furloughed and those that are
being required to go to work but will not be paid on payday.

SHARPTON: So when you hear people talking about the 800,000 federal
workers and you talking about many of whom are members that you represent
your union, people around the ought to know these are not people making six
figures or big five figures. These are people working every day and
struggling to make ends meet.

COX: They are truly struggling every day. These are the screeners at
the airport, the TSA employees, correctional officers in the bureau of
prisons, border patrol agents. Many of them are clerical individuals doing
many, many important things. They are the housekeepers at the national
institute of health. They are the nursing assistants set up at Bethesda
Hospital. They are out there making a very little money but they take
great pride in what they do for the American people and we want to go to

SHARPTON: And Congresswoman, John Boehner can have them go to work.
Can get them back to work if he just called a vote, even if he wants to
vote against it. Call the vote, he won`t do it. And then you hear
nonsense like over the weekend we had a Republican congressman on this
show, this station talking with Craig Melvin of MSNBC about why he`s
fighting the health care law.

Listen to this, Congresswoman.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me people choose for a year. If it`s as great
as -- no, the people didn`t choose. It passed by one vote when the
Democrats had had the majority in the house.

CRAIG MELVIN, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: The house represent the people at
last check. The house voted for it, the president signed it, the Supreme
Court --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t vote for it.

MELVIN: The Supreme Court signed off on it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was questionable.

MELVIN: The Supreme Court signs off on it. The president wins an
election that was largely seen as an referendum only Obamacare. At what
point do you stop this little silly game?


SHARPTON: I mean, the denial, the nonsense they are running,
Congresswoman. Close vote of the Supreme Court 5-4, one vote -- I mean,
they lost. And they seem to not be able to deal with this.

SCHAKOWSKY: You know, they don`t even know what the demand is
anymore. Is it really to repeal? Is it to delay it for a year? What do
they want? They talk about concessions. They talk about compromise. But
at this point, I don`t think they know exactly why they want to shut down
the government. Why they are threatening to not pay the debts of the
United States of America.

I mean, it is just chaos over there and for no reason. But the pain
that they are causing for so many people, I talked to one of your workers,
President Cox, who said my husband and I are both furloughed. When our
mortgage payment comes due, we are not going to be able to pay it. Because
even if the ended the day they will get paid, the cash flow means that they
are going to be late on many of their bills. So, this is going to hurt
their credit rating. It`s a mess. And John Boehner in 15 minutes, this
could be done tonight.

SHARPTON: Tonight, 15 minutes.

And J. David, your members frisk not being able to pay their bills,
credit rating effected. Hard working people. Of all parties, you
represent Republican and democratic members.

COX: Yes, sir. We do represent everyone. We have got Republicans
members, Democratic members, independents members. These folks want to
service the American people. They want to go to work. That`s the message
I hear from them every day. They are worried about the work that they are
not on the job doing for the American citizens and we beg the speaker, we
beg him with all of our heart, put forth a clean CR and allow the vote up
or down for the American people so that we can go to work and service them.

SHARPTON: Let them go to work, Speaker Boehner. Just let the people
go back to work and serve the American people as you continue whatever
discussions you want.

Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky, J. David Cox, thank you both for your
time tonight.

SCHAKOWSKY: Thank you.

COX: Thank you so much, Reverend Al.

SHARPTON: Ahead, the secret right wing plot to destroy Obamacare
revealed. We go inside the billionaire boys club to expose their talking
points and their plan.

Plus, the right`s dazed and confused about the government shutdown.
It`s got so bad that they even falling for a fake story linking the
president to a Muslim museum.

And congratulations, speaker Boehner, here`s how the butt of "Saturday
Night Live" mockery. But in reality, news today shows serious danger in

And friend or foe, I want to know. E-mail me at "Reply Al." It`s


SHARPTON: Have you joined the "Politics Nation" conversation on
facebook yet? We hope you will. The government shutdown is still
dominating the conversation, and people are encouraging President Obama to
stand up to Republicans.

Linda says Republicans aren`t doing their jobs. Stand strong,
President Obama, and don`t cave in.

Jeffrey says they are not doing their jobs. The house Republicans
have never done their jobs and they never will. This is what happens every
time the Republicans take the House.

Coming up, the poll that shows why Republicans could be in big
political trouble over all this.

But first, we want to hear what you think. Head over to facebook and
search "Politics Nation" and like us to join the conversation that keeps
going long after the show ends.


SHARPTON: The GOP`s bizarre, incoherent defense of a government
shutdown has made them a national punch line. This weekend, "Saturday
Night Live" spoofed the Republican shutdown with a skit featuring Miley
Cyrus as Michele Bachmann and jewelry sporting leotard wearing John


SHARPTON: Hilarious. But the truth hurts.

The Republican Party has become a joke because of their failure to
govern. But some of the right aren`t laughing. Republicans are now in
danger of losing the House in 2014. In a new poll, 17 incumbent
Republicans trailed a generic Democrat in their districts. Those 17 seats
could be enough to swing the House to the Democrats ending John Boehner`s
tenure as speaker. And if that happens, I don`t think we will see a lot of
laughing over in the GOP.

Joining me now is Cynthia Tucker. Thanks for being here tonight.


SHARPTON: Cynthia, is this poll a wakeup call for the GOP? I mean,
can`t they see they are heading for disaster in next year`s elections.

TUCKER: There have been many wakeup calls along the way, Reverend Al,
and they don`t seem to have awakened yet. They were warned for months that
a government shutdown would not work out well for them. There are
veterans, veteran Republicans who remember how badly the shutdown went for
Republicans in the `90s.

When they, you know, tried to force Bill Clinton to do things their
way. It worked out very poorly for them. So they were warned. The same
thing is happening this time around. It`s effecting not only Republicans
in the swing districts, it`s also effecting the Virginia governors` race.
Ken Cuccinelli is now very afraid that his chances are even worse than they
were because Virginians are sick of this Republican shutdown.

And so, yes, it`s damaging the Republican brand. It is damaging their
chances for holding onto the House. But Reverend, the simple truth is that
the House Republican caucus has locked itself into a very small room and
handed the key to the tea party and they don`t know how to get out.

SHARPTON: Well, let me say, you mentioned Ken Cuccinelli in Virginia.
Let me show you that Cuccinelli wants nothing to do with Senator Cruz, for
example, who has become one of the symbols of the shutdown. Quote,
"Republican Ken Cuccinelli avoided being photographed with Ted Cruz at a
gala they headlined here Saturday night. Even leaving before the Texas
senator rose to speak. Cruz even praised Cuccinelli in his speech saying,
quote, "Ken is smart." He`s principled and he`s fearless."

But I think we found something that he is afraid of. That`s he`s
afraid of being associated with Senator Cruz.

TUCKER: Exactly. I mean, Ted Cruz is the Republican that many other
Republicans are running away from. He is the face of this disastrous
shutdown. They are bickering, openly pointing fingers at him for leading
them in this mess. Of course, they shouldn`t have had sense to follow him,
they did and yes, it is telling.

Ken Cuccinelli is a very conservative Republican. But he knows that
Virginians who depend on federal funding for jobs in Virginia hate this

SHARPTON: Well, many of them are Republicans, conservative
Republicans, that are being directly impacted and furloughed by this

And when you look at this, Cynthia. 1995, the showdown was a
disaster. But back in `95, 56 percent said the shutdown was a crisis and
had major problems. Now it`s 67 percent said the shutdown is a crisis or
it has caused major problems. And the results from the `95 shutdown was
Clinton won reelection in `96. Democrats gained seats in the House in both
`96 and `98. And finally, Newt Gingrich resigned as speaker after the
Republican losses.

I mean, it was not that long ago. Boehner and some of them were
there, yet they seem to not get this could be worse for them.

TUCKER: You know, they are paralyzed.

Again, they want -- John Boehner would love Obama to come and rescue
him from his own mess. He can`t figure out how to get out of the mess. He
allowed the tea party to lead them into it. He thinks he can only save his
speakership by following after this pea party crowd, but as you just
pointed out, if the Republicans lose the house, he won`t be speaker

SHARPTON: Cynthia Tucker, thanks for your time this evening.

TUCKER: Good to be here, Rev.

SHARPTON: Ahead, shutdown confusion. Who is to blame for this mess?
Over at FOX, they are doing anything to pin it on the president even using
fake news. You want to see this.


SHARPTON: Coming up, how right wing billionaires secretly planned
this Obamacare shutdown months ago. But first, how desperate is the
propaganda wing of the GOP to blame President Obama? Wait until you see
what they did. That`s next.


SHARPTON: The right just doesn`t know what to make of this government
shutdown. One day it`s a good thing. It`s really just a slim down. The
next, it`s very bad, blame the president. And sometimes, they`re just
confused, very confused.

Just listen to what the folks over at FOX said this weekend about the
shutdown and the closure of the World War II memorial.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government is acting as your enemy. Has this
happened before? I have never seen anything like this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Republican national committee is offering to
pay for it to keep it open so that the veterans from honor flight are going
to be able to go and see this because who did it honor? It honored them.
It just -- it really doesn`t seem fair especially we are going to talk a
little bit later in the show, too, about some things that are continuing to
be funded. And President Obama has offered to pay out of his own pocket
for the museum of Muslim culture, out of his own pocket. Yet it`s the
Republican national committee who`s paying for this.


SHARPTON: Of course. So they expose our Kenyan Muslim president is
paying to keep the museum of Muslim culture open. But why does that sound
like a fake headline? Well, because it is a fake headline. It turns out
that FOX News hosts fell for a satirical article. The host later tweeted
an apology, but how about all those other times they tried to paint the
president as the other?


SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: And he went to a Muslim school and he
did talk about all this, and he studied the Koran and prayers at sunset
where some of those beautiful things you saw and likes, so it was
(INAUDIBLE) in Indonesia.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Show the birth certificate.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: The Obama administration through all these
appeasement and apologizing answers to the Koran first and to the
constitution second.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Why is it he`s more sensitive to radical Islamists
who are killing Americans than he is to the Catholic Church?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Here`s President Obama`s schedule for today.
Fourteen million people are out of work, but here`s the schedule. It`s
blank all the way until his Ramadan dinner tonight.

DONALD TRUMP, ENTREPRENEUR: He doesn`t have a birth certificate.
Now, he may have one, but there`s something on that maybe religion, maybe
he says he`s a Muslim. I don`t know.

HANNITY: Now, I remember I direct comment. He is a Muslim, ever.


SHARPTON: Yes. Sure. No one at FOX would ever call the president a

Joining me now, Joan Walsh,`s editor at large and Eric
Boehlert, from -- he`s a senior fellow at Media Matters for America. Thank
you both for coming on the show tonight.


SHARPTON: Joan, let me start with you. Doesn`t this latest flub say
something about the right`s constant effort to paint the president as the

WALSH: Well, yes, it does. It says a lot about it, Rev. It also --
you just have to wonder, that poor woman, what kind of a mind-set does it
take to believe something like that? And what happens that her two co-
hosts don`t say immediately and Tucker Carlson who was her guest don`t say
immediately that isn`t true or that can`t be true. How do you not check
that delectable little fact before you go on the air? It`s because you
spent all these years creating this idea that he is a Kenyan Muslim. He`s
got the Kenyan anti-colonial mind-set as Newt Gingrich said, it`s really --

SHARPTON: And Eric, I think there can be flubs on the air.


SHARPTON: But I think it is that it`s so constant, so more of the
same that it only shows us a narrative that has been built up so unfairly
against the president.

BOEHLERT: And specifically in terms of the Obamacare and the
shutdown, I mean, it`s been a monumental propaganda effort about ObamaCare.
Go back to debt panels. Go back to the largest tax increase in U.S.
history, government takeover of healthcare. This is just another in a long
line, it just happens to be one of the more comical lies that they`ve told.
And Joan is right. How do you tap into that culture where you don`t
understand satire from reality? Because it`s the culture within the FOX
newsroom. And it`s not just Hannity. It`s not just their quote "opinion
talkers." It`s the news anchors.


BOEHLERT: This culture of how do you make Obama look like a monster
today. That`s not exaggeration.

SHARPTON: And the opinion talkers -- I`m an opinion talker.

WALSH: Right.

SHARPTON: But I mean, when you look at something that sounds a little
ridiculous --


SHARPTON: You kind of say this doesn`t sound right unless you`re so
used to this kind of stuff that it doesn`t appear to you unusual.

WALSH: Right. I mean, you take responsibility for getting your facts
right. I do too. When we get them wrong, we correct them. I mean, and
the amazing thing is she did tweet an apology, and that`s great of her --

SHARPTON: Yes, she did.

WALSH: But FOX has still not --

SHARPTON: And they`re going to AP`s reporting. FOX is going to do it
on air.

WALSH: But not until next Saturday. They can`t correct it on the air
on one of their other news shows, I mean, they`re going to let this sit
until next Saturday. You know, it`s what makes them a laughing stock. But
I have to say, the only reason that this is tolerated and goes on again and
again is because mainstream Republicans tolerate it.


WALSH: It goes back to John Boehner saying when he took over as House
Speaker, it`s not my job to tell people what to think about his caucus
members who were birthers.


WALSH: This is what they`ve tolerated and, you know, to go to what
Eric said, this is how we got there.

SHARPTON: And tolerating it empowers them.

WALSH: Right.

SHARPTON: You know, Eric, the folks over at FOX can`t even accept
positive news about the president or anything that he`s done. I mean, take
a listen.


BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Give me one damn program he said he`d
cut. One.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: He has cut entitlements.

O`REILLY: Not entitlements. One program.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Why do you want to yell?

O`REILLY: Because you are lying.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I`m not lying.

O`REILLY: You are lying.

HANNITY: You`re getting special perks and special breaks for
yourself. Cut the crap and stop lying to the audience.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: You stop the crap. You don`t know what you`re
talking about.

O`REILLY: What the problem is now is that you have a law that`s been
passed, and legitimately passed and upheld by the Supreme Court that`s
falling apart.


O`REILLY: It`s falling apart.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: That`s not clear though. That`s not clear.

O`REILLY: It`s clear to me. If you hang around in the next segment,
I`ll prove it to you.


SHARPTON: I mean, it`s just all overkill. And facts, you know, don`t
even get near them. Let`s just boom, boom, boom keep trying to castigate
and denigrate this president.

BOEHLERT: Right. And as you`re talking about, they`re very confused.
You know, Media Matters pointed out, Sean Hannity has been cheerleading for
this shutdown for weeks. Laura Ingraham said it would be a dream for


BOEHLERT: And about two weeks into it, they`re demanding why hasn`t
Obama stopped it? Why hasn`t he stopped all the suffering from the
shutdown? So, the GOP messaging is completely befuddled. Which means the
FOX News messaging is completely befuddled because they`re the same thing.
And so, I think that that leads to a certain amount of anger and a certain
amount of desperation. So, you know, they`re adopting a terrible article.
In fact, they`re kind of boxed in and they`re kind of desperate they don`t
have a way out of this.

SHARPTON: And Joan, you know, on the other hand they may be confused
on how they are sending mixed messages on the president. But they`re real
clear on when it comes to the right wing stuff. For example, they sugar
coat things. Like last week FOX News posted articles from Associated Press
on its website. Replacing the word -- actually, we replacing the word
"shutdown" with "slim down." I mean, here are the ones they wanted the
shutdown, and to soften it they actually change words from shutdown to slim
down over at FOX.

WALSH: No, it`s a propaganda arm of the Republican Party. It`s not a
news station. I`m sitting here laughing Reverend all this clip because I
don`t watch it. I can`t watch it. So to see these things and to know that
they`re still doing it, I mean, I had Bill O`Reilly tell me stop talking,
Miss Walsh. That`s what they do when they don`t agree with you and when
you`re bringing them facts. So, but this slip, so to speak, is really
going to go down in history.

SHARPTON: And I think, again, we do opinion on this show. But it`s
clearly our opinion on issues. And I`ll disagree with Democrats or
Republicans when it comes to those issues. Because there are Democrats
that are on further to situations than I might agree. We`ll debate it out.
And what Republicans as well. But when you get people that are totally in
denial and totally dealing with facts that have no association at all with
the truth, I think that that`s where you got to scratch your head and say
wait a minute, are you a little off or do you think I`m stupid?

BOEHLERT: Right. It`s the bubble. I mean, it`s Mitt Romney`s going
to win in a landslide. Right? And it just continues.

SHARPTON: Not only going to win, I`ve got my numbers from Ohio. You
don`t know what you`re talking about.

BOEHLERT: Right. So, it`s part of that propaganda effort. And it`s
having your own set of facts. I mean, this has been the problem really
since FOX News started broadcasting. It gets increasingly disturbing and
sort of untethered from reality year after year. They have their own set
of facts. And so, how do you have a debate? You don`t. They just sort of
live in their bubble and push out this propaganda about a slim down, not a

SHARPTON: Well, Joan Walsh and Eric Boehlert. Oh, where`s my
manners? Did I say happy anniversary to FOX? Thank you guys for your time

WALSH: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, the right wing`s secret plot to take down
ObamaCare revealed. It started days after the president`s second
inauguration. We`ll tell you who`s behind it.

Plus, Antonin Scalia talking about the sopranos, duck dynasty,
Seinfeld and his own horrible record on rights. Stay with us.


SHARPTON: Think this government shutdown came out of nowhere? Think
again. "The New York Times" reveals this crisis was months in the
planning. The result of a sick conservative scheme. Hatched up behind
closed doors by right wing millionaires and their operatives. It happened
just weeks after President Obama`s second inauguration while the president
was gearing up for his second term. A group of far right activists were
platting against ObamaCare "The Times" reports. A coalition of
conservative activists gathered in the capital to plot their strategy.

One group fueling this, the notorious Tea Party billionaires, the Koch
Brothers who dumped hundreds of millions of dollars into Tea Party causes.
To this day, those who attended the February meeting insist their location
be kept secret. The first thing that came from the session was this. A
document called blueprint to defunding ObamaCare. This blueprint has now
been signed by dozens of right wing groups and then early last month a Tea
Party group gave GOP lawmakers another document. A tool kit for defunding
ObamaCare. This tool kit gave Republicans talking points and it advised
them on selling them the shutdown plan. Telling them to say things like
quote, "we are simply calling to fund the entire government except for the
Affordable Care Act/ObamaCare." And remarkably, the republican lawmakers
followed the script.


REP. JIMMY DUNCAN (R), TENNESSEE: The Republicans have compromised
and have voted to fund the entire government except for only one bill,

REP. JIM BRIDENSTINE (R), OKLAHOMA: We absolutely want to fund the
entire government and we want to not fund that one element of ObamaCare.

REP. RAUL LABRADOR (R), IDAHO: We get to fund the government at the
appropriate levels by only delaying ObamaCare. We`re not asking for a

SEN. MIKE LEE (R), UTAH: Keep government funded. Keep everything in
government funding while defunding ObamaCare.


SHARPTON: This is the GOP leadership at work. Taking a cue from the
billionaires behind closed doors. Amazing.

Joining me now is Patricia Murphy and Angela Rye. Thank you both for
being here.



SHARPTON: Angela, what a report this is. I mean, blew my mind when I
read it Saturday. The lawmakers are following the billionaires. What does
this tell you about where this party is?

RYE: Well, it tells us one thing that we already knew. Just like in
court, you get the best defense you can pay for. You have the same
situation here where they are paying for an advocacy strategy that
absolutely hurts the American people. And honestly Rev, it`s really not
that good. It`s actually a wash.


RYE: Money has already been spent on ObamaCare. And ObamaCare has
already been funded. So they`re wasting a whole lot of time. The
Congressional research service which as you know is not a part -- has
already talked about the fact that the defunding ObamaCare strategies don`t
work because so much of this act has already been funded put into place and
has already been funded.

SHARPTON: Patricia Murphy, "The New York Times" reports that this
shutdown didn`t happen by accident. Quote, "It was the outgrowth of a
long-running effort to undo the law, waged by a galaxy of conservative
groups with more money, organized tactics, and interconnections than is
commonly known."

Now, I mentioned they wrote a blueprint to defund ObamaCare, and they
gave GOP lawmakers talking points like quote, our nation simply cannot
afford ObamaCare. It`s driving up health insurance costs. Bureaucrats and
other unelected officials will have power over regulations. And it creates
exemptions for big business and big labor. I mean, this was a laid out

MURPHY: This was absolutely a laid out plan. If you go back to
Senator Ted Cruz`s first speech in the Senate in March, it was about
ObamaCare and it was about defunding ObamaCare. And he was somebody who
was absolutely the darling, really a favorite candidate of this entire
group of people who were meeting Heritage Action, the Koch Brothers, sort
of this entire panel plea, a very interconnected Washington insiders who he
was one of their very chosen candidates among a group of candidates that
they were trying to bring up from outside the Senate to bring inside the
Senate and start to move this process forward.

And I think it`s very important to note that there are really two
things going on here. There are the grassroots energy and activism and
anger. And then there is a group of D.C. insiders who are trying to
profit, I believe, off of that anger. And these are people who have been
around D.C. a long time. Ed Meese was the attorney general for Ronald
Reagan. A number of people running these groups -- this is not an outside
the beltway effort. This is inside the beltway office. Using energy from
outside the beltway, highly coordinated, very expensive, very targeted.
And it`s not about ObamaCare. It`s about power and influence. And that I
think is what we`re seeing play out right now.

SHARPTON: And Angela, they`re following it out. Because if you
listen to Speaker Boehner`s single interview this weekend, he stuck to
those talking points. Listen to this.


American people do not want and cannot afford.

ObamaCare is a law that`s going to raise the cost of health insurance
premiums. ObamaCare, all these regulations coming out of the
administration are threatening the future for our kids and our grand kids.

They give big businesses a waiver. They give all these unions a


SHARPTON: So, this is why we can`t get a clean vote here. He is
actually following a strategy run by these billionaires and these
Washington insiders like Meese who have laid this out.

RYE: And here`s the thing, Rev. The most ironic portion, I think, of
the talking points is the one where they call this particular bill, this
act ObamaCare a train wreck. Everything that the Koch Brothers touches is
a train wreck. You know from your work, your advocacy work with Alec, you
know, the Koch Brothers are right there with Alec. You`re talking about
whether it`s the stand your ground laws, the voter I.D. laws, all of these
things are train wrecks. So, they mis-labeled here. The train wreck is
not ObamaCare. The train wreck is actually everything the Koch Brothers
touch with their money. Dollars cannot make this make common sense.

SHARPTON: Well, Patricia, talking about the Koch Brothers, we learn
more and more about the infamous billionaire Koch Brothers. They pledge to
personally spend $60 million to defeat the president in 2012. They`re
behind a group that distributed $236 million to conservative groups last
year. One result of their efforts is the so-called creepy Uncle Sam ad.
Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I see you chose to sign up for ObamaCare.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yes. It`s my first time here.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Well, here we are then. Change into a gown and
the doctor will see you soon.


SHARPTON: So these are the people involved in this secret meeting in
a location we still can`t disclose that planned all of this including a
shutdown all in the name of we have to defund ObamaCare, according to "The
New York Times."

MURPHY: Yes, that ad was from a group called generation opportunity.
It`s run by a 29-year-old former republican Capitol Hill aide. And again,
this really just goes to demonstrate this was a coordinated effort, very
well financed, very highly directed. This is no accident. This has been
coming for a long time. And again, this is not about ObamaCare. This is
about a group of conservatives who want power and they want to take it away
not only from Democrats but from other sitting Republicans.

So a lot of the money that they are raising is not being spent against
Democrats. It`s being spent against fellow Republicans trying now to push
a much more conservative agenda on to the Republican Party and then use
that again to win back the Senate, win back the White House. The energy
that we saw in 2009/2010 against ObamaCare, that was polling so well for
the right that they knew they needed to go back and sort of whip it back up
again. So that was the only thing that really gave them a whole bunch of
energy when President Obama came into office. They knew that that was the
way to fuel their move to power. And so, again, it`s no coincidence.

SHARPTON: That was what they`re tempting, but it doesn`t seem like
it`s going to work. And the thing that really, really, really bothers me
is you have all these billionaires, all these well financed plans and
little people, federal employees are suffering and people that need those
head start programs and those food aid programs, they are the ones that
have to suffer while these billionaires play their little political chess
games. Patricia Murphy and Angela Rye, thank you both for your time.

MURPHY: Thank you, Rev.

RYE: Thank you so much.

SHARPTON: Straight ahead, Justice Scalia`s talking Seinfeld. But
that`s where the laugh ends. His civil rights views, next.


SHARPTON: It`s the first Monday in October, and that means a new
Supreme Court session is here. To mark the occasion, Justice Antonin
Scalia gave a remarkable interview in New York magazine. It was really
Justice Scalia like we`d never heard them before. He talked about watching
the reality show "Duck Dynasty" saying he`s a hunter and he uses duck
calls. Who knew? It also revealed that he watched "The Sopranos." And
even saw a couple of episodes of "Mad Men." Feel free to insert your own
joke here. But his favorite was "Seinfeld" saying quote, "I loved
Seinfeld." In fact, I got some CDs of Seinfeld. Seinfeld was hilarious.
Oh, boy. The Nazi soup kitchen. No soup for you.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I think you forgot my bread.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Bread $2 extra.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Two dollars. The one in front of me got free

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: You want bread?


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Three dollars.



UNIDENTIFIED MAN: No soup for you.


SHARPTON: Who can forget that guy? But that`s where the fun ends.
Because unlike the show, this interview wasn`t about nothing. It was about
something. Something very serious. His view on homosexuality. He said he
had friends suspected to be homosexual, but none had come out to him. And
then he said quote, "I`m not a hater of homosexuals at all." But let`s
look at his record on the bench. A Supreme Court cases he`s compared
homosexuals to murder, polygamy, cruelty to animals, incest, adultery,
child pornography, prostitution, heroin use, and bestiality. You sure,
justice? That`s a consistent antagonism of gay people. Did Justice Scalia
really think we`d ignore his lifetime of ugly civil rights call? Nice try,
but no soup for you because we got you.


SHARPTON: Finally tonight, we are in serious need of GOP leadership.
And as I talked about tonight, Speaker Boehner could end this shutdown
right now with a vote. In my new book "The Rejected Stone," I write about
leading with direction and knowing your final destination.


SHARPTON: If you want to lead, you must decide where you`re going.
In that chapter I talked about how you`ve got to decide earlier and firmly
what it is you are trying to do, where are you trying to be a leader?
Where is your direction? You can`t arrive without a destination. And most
people go through the ride in life without a destination. And then upset
that they never got anywhere.


SHARPTON: You know, I`m really excited about the book, and it comes
out tomorrow. If you`d like to read an excerpt, please go to our Facebook
page. And find details about my book signing
in New York City tomorrow. I`ll be at Barnes and Noble on Fifth Avenue at
12 noon tomorrow. That`s 45th street in Fifth Avenue. I hope to see all
of you there. And tomorrow night, the one and only Connie Chung will
interview me live on the show about my book. The book is not about me.
It`s about lessons I`ve learned to help you with your journey. My journey
is only used as a antidote to say we all have been rejected. Now, we can
rise from that rejection and be who we want to be and make the nation what
it needs to be.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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