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The Ed Show for Thursday, October 10th, 2013

Read the transcript to the Thursday show

October 10, 2013
Guest: Bernard Sanders, Jim Moran, EJ Dionne, Katrina Vanden Heuvel,
Clarence Page, Harry Moorhouse


should take yes for an answer.

you can`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are really great and powerful. You keep
your promises.

BOEHNER: What we`re going to do is to offer the President today the
ability to move a temporary increase in the debt ceiling.

REP. ERIC CANTOR, (R) VIRGINIA: There is very little time left.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The magic man. Now, you see me? Now, you don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you reopen the government if the President
doesn`t agree with anything to change ObamaCare?

BOEHNER: If and`s and but`s were candy and nuts, everyday would be


ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Pay no attention to the man behind the
curtain. Oh, yes, that famous line from Wizard of Oz. You know what we
found out today? We found out today that this guy right here, the man
behind the curtain, he`s actually the scarecrow. He`s looking for a brain,
he can`t find one.

This was about the stupidest move that John Boehner could have made
today because what he did coming out with this compromise he is calling it
or proposal or chance for the President to move on something. What he did
is he came out and talked about what really Americans aren`t too concerned
about right now. What Americans are concerned about is getting to work,
ending the shutdown. But Boehner had nothing on the table because he
doesn`t care about federal workers, they`re nothing but bargaining chips on
the table. He doesn`t care about the middle class, he doesn`t care about
jobs, he only cares about power and satisfying these two wizards, the Koch

The big story at this hour, President Obama is currently meeting with
House Republicans. Should I say a selected number of them because the rest
of them must hate the guy terribly. And of course they are talking. I
think about the shutdown and the debt limit over at the White House right
now that of course the backdrop is a very lame offer by the Republicans
today. And this of course is a live shot of what`s happening over there,
the stake out camera. If anybody comes out and says anything we will
certainly bring it to you live here on the Ed Show.

Meanwhile, John Boehner making hay today or at least he`s trying to.
He has decided to put off the impending debt limit disaster. He is going
to ask his radical Republican caucus for a short term extension of the debt


BOEHNER: What we`re going to do is to offer the President today the
ability to move a temporary increase in the debt ceiling, an agreement to
go to conference on a budget for his willingness to sit down and discuss
with us a way for it to reopen the government and to start the deal with
America`s pressing problem.


SCHULTZ: So Boehner is trying to show the American people that if
Boehner makes a move at all that Obama is really the bad guy. The
President certainly is not willing to sit down and talk about anything
unless he gets it his way.

Here is the read. There is no deal here. There is no compromise.
There is no meeting anybody halfway. Today`s move from Boehner does not
address the shutdown. That`s the bottom line Boehner`s current offer kicks
the can down the road and asking for a six-week extension on the debt

Look, they created this shutdown, they created the problem, they now
have to fix problem number one before we go to problem number two. Stay
strong Democrats.

It`s important to note that during the House Republican six-minute
press conference today, the word ObamaCare was never mentioned. I thought
the shutdown was all about defunding ObamaCare? Well, they`ve kind of
shift it again. And they shifted because they got this letter. A letter
that was titled "Dear Senator". "Dear Senator" senator from where? All of
you son of a guns better pay attention on what the heck we`re saying, we`re
the Koch Brothers.

Yes, the letter to Senate Republicans from the Koch Brothers is why
we`ve seen a little movement. You see on Wednesday, Koch Industry said
that they were not involved in any plot to shut down the government in an
attempt to defund ObamaCare. And according to one Republican consultant,
Koch officials warned lawmakers default over ObamaCare would end quote a
"disaster for the economy".

Well, ironically Boehner just happen to come out today and throw this
bone out there. He wants to move on an extension. It`s pretty clear who`s
running the Republican Party at least today Charles and David Koch are
running it. It could be the drugster, it could be the Tea Partiers, it
could be Paul Ryan, it`s never Boehner.

But yesterday, the letter got somebody`s attention so Boehner move on
it today. The Koch Brothers know that ObamaCare is popular and they are
losing in the arena of public opinion so let`s move to something else.
According to the latest Gallup poll Republican favor ability is at an all
time low at 28 percent, lower than whale manure on the bottom of the ocean.
Democrats are setting at 43 percent. And I think it`s pretty clear that
the Democrats are in a real position of strength here. They just have to
realize it.

I think that the Koch Brothers are basically saying drop this
ObamaCare thing because the big picture is the big three. This is what
we`ve always wanted to go after the entitlement so they earned benefit

Republicans think that having a six-week delay, that they can swing
public opinion against the President. It ain`t about the President. It`s
about people who are seating home and not working.

This leaves them plenty of time to go after the targets that they`ve
always wanted, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. That`s what they
want. That`s what this is all about.

Now, if Republicans attack the big three, it will just be another
unpopular position that they`ve taken. This is why Democrats have got to
stand strong and not cave for a second to any demands or proposals that
Boehnar has brought to the table.

Bottom line, this guy has the divided caucus. Harry Reid doesn`t have
a divided caucus. Nancy Pelosi doesn`t have a divided caucus. This is a
moment where the Democrats are severely in a position of strength. It`s
about the shutdown and until this guy addresses the shutdown. We don`t
move. That should be the Democratic position.

Get your vote on the CR and let`s move on with business. Issue number
two for the Democrats. It`s a one year debt limit extension nothing less.

You have the cards on your side of the table Democrats. You got the
people behind you. And you got to push hard on this and make them
understand that they lost the election.

Bottom line here is, it`s a very smart move by President Obama and the
Democrats to say, we want a debt limit extension for one year. What`s the
date today? We`re almost in the middle of October. One year from now,
what are we going to be talking about? Well, it`s going to be the success
of ObamaCare but I think there`s some election coming up in November of
next year.

You really think that the Republicans want to be sitting here a year
from now, talking about whether the country is going to pay its bills or
not? Do you think that`s going to be popular for them to go home and say,
"Hey in this Town Hall about your wonderful constituents by the way I think
we got a problem with the debt limit not against Obama and we`re not going
to pay your bills." That ain`t going to fly.

This is why the Democrats have all the strength right now. What he
did to the Democrats today is about the best thing that could have ever

Again, he`s trying to hoodwink people out there across America that
President Obama has the problem. They created the shutdown because they
hate what we all decided on ObamaCare. He`s got to vote for the CR. His
own caucus is saying that. He won`t bring it to the table. Now, he throws
out this phony what he calls proposal and comprise or will extend the debt
limit. It will extend debt limit for six weeks. That`s hogwash. That`s
bull manure is what that is. Stand strong Democrats.

The country is with the progressives. Get your cellphones out. I
want to know what you think. Tonight`s question, should Democrat take
Boehner`s short-term offer? Text A for yes, text B for no to 67622 you can
always go to our blog at We`ll bring you the results later
on in the show.

Now, keep in mind this whole thing is framing the bigger argument to
get the President in a position six weeks down the road to go for a grand
bargain so they can chip away at the entitlement, chip away at the earned
benefit programs that you and millions of Americans have been satisfied
within paid in to for years.

For more on all of this, let`s turn to our favorite Senator Bernie
Sanders Independent out of Vermont, my favorite because this man is always
for the workers. Senator good to have you with us tonight.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Good to be with you.

SCHULTZ: Your thoughts on what Boehner did today.

SANDERS: Well, I think you are absolutely right. He`s attempting to
hoodwink the American people with the short-term solution which is totally

The position of the Democrats has got to be and the government
shutdown. Mr. Boehner have a vote, and if you have a vote the government
will reopen. Number two, we need a one-year extension of the debt limit.

The other point that you made which is very, very important, Ed is to
understand that ObamaCare is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what
these guys really want. It`s not just repealing ObamaCare. They have an
agenda put together by the Koch Brothers who are worth some $70 billion and
other billionaires and this is what their agenda is. Their agenda is over
a period of time end Social Security, privatized Social Security,
voucheralized (ph) Medicare, give seniors an $8,000 check and when they
have cancer that will last for at least two days. Make savage cuts in

Ed what part of their agenda is, is not simply not raising the minimum
wage. They want to eliminate the minimum wage. Get government out of that
area, no flaw on wages that are paid in this country.


SANDERS: People will work for $3 bucks an hour, eliminate the
environmental protection agency, the Department of Energy, the Department
of Education. People think I am kidding. I am not. That is the agenda
and there are hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars behind that

SCHULTZ: Senator, Republican Party exposed. The influence of the
Koch Brothers goes much farther than what I think average Americans were
consuming on the subject.

I mean when they write a letter it says, "Dear Senator" that is an
open letter to those who make decisions that this is the way the world is
going to turn. I mean are they running the Republican Party and ironically
Boehner just steps out the next day and says, "OK, we`ll extend the debt
limit for six weeks?"

SANDERS: Ed, because of this disaster Supreme Court decision called
Citizens United, people like the Koch Brothers have already and will in the
future, unless we change that, be able to spend hundreds and hundreds of
millions of dollars on campaigns.

They are setting up. They established. They are funding -- help
establish the Tea Party in the first place. So, when they speak people
obviously listen, because they can determine .


SANDERS: . the future of the Republican Party.

SCHULTZ: Paul Ryan wrote in an op-ed recently, yesterday, in fact he
says, "To break the deadlock both sides should agree the common-sense
reforms of the country`s entitlement programs".

Now, when I read that it`s like the election didn`t take place.

SANDERS: Ed that is .

SCHULTZ: It`s like you better take the reforms that we are pushing
even though the other guy won.

SANDERS: And he`s the irony Paul Ryan himself ran for vice president.
He lost by 5 million votes. And now, he says do what I wanted to do during
the campaign.

And here is, you know, here is the point to understand what these guys
will want to do now is to continue to keep the government shutdown unless
Obama negotiates cuts in Social Security, this so-called Chained CPI, cuts
in Medicare, savage cuts in Medicaid.


SANDERS: That is what their plan is. And you know what? They lost
the election for good reasons. That is not what the America people want.

SCHULTZ: If the Democrats give them this six-week extension on the
debt limit without reopening the government. All it`s going to do is play
into the narrative that they want to blame President Obama for not being a

They want to say that the Democrats have spent way too much. Well,
forget about the wars and the tax cuts. And rope Americans in a six-week
period of believing that it`s all Obama`s fault and he is the problem.

Now, moving from that how do you think, Senator should the liberals
and the progressives in this country move forward against this wall of
really knew obstruction that`s out there?

SANDERS: Well, two things. I think we got to be absolutely strong
and I think Harry Reid deserves a lot of credit for being strong and for
being tough.

The second thing that we need to do, Ed is we need to come forward
with an agenda that makes sense to the American people. It is clear the
American people do not want cuts Social Security and Medicaid. You want to
deal with Social Security, you know what to do? You left the cut.


SANDERS: So the people who are making millions of dollars will stop
paying their fair share into the Social Security trust fund, then it last
for another 75 years.

SCHULTZ: And that pencils out the solvency big time in years to come.

SANDERS: Absolutely. So they want to discuss entitlements. Let`s
discuss lifting the cut.

Second thing, we need to do is bring forward an agenda which talks
about creating millions of jobs, rebuilding our infrastructure, dealing
with the crisis of global warming, raising the minimum wage, dealing with
pay equity, making college affordable.

Right now, the America people are sitting there and they`re saying,
"These people are crazy. They`re talking about whether we`re going to pay
our bills or not." You know what, I don`t have a job, so we`ve got to
rally the American people around an agenda that`s fixed to their needs.

SCHULTZ: I mean I think John Boehner tonight proved that he doesn`t
give a damn about workers .

SANDERS: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: . that federal workers are nothing but bargaining chips in a
big ideological fight, he has no concern from the middle class, has no
concern for the hardship on what people are going through right now.

SANDERS: Ed it`s not only the federal workers who are not getting a
paycheck. And think about what`s that doing to their lives it`s tens of
billions of people. It`s veterans, it`s head start kids. It`s senior
citizens who are knees on wheels.

We`ve got to stand with them and if we do I think the American people
will be behind us and we can defeat these guys.

SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders good to have you with us, sir. Thank
you so much.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen. We love it when you share your thoughts with us on Twitter at Ed
Show and on Facebook Like us there, we appreciate it, we always want to
know what you think.

Still to come, this is a very important political story that you won`t
hear or see anywhere else, you know, it`s implied (ph) over country, but
it`s how a natural disaster in the Upper Midwest could bring down Tea
Partiers across the country. But, first dancing on the debt ceiling GOP
denial hits all time I, we`ll bust more Republican lies after the break.
Stay with us we`re coming right back.


SCHULTZ: Time now for the Trenders. The Ed Show social media nation
has decided and we are reporting. This is where you can connect with us
and we appreciate it. Here are today`s top Trenders voted on by you.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not afraid either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three Trender, high strung.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 12 people suspended in midair for three hours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A real glitch gets at amusement park.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A glitch calls the computers to go to safety mode
which then lock the ride in midair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A glitch is when in a pull down menu you can`t
specify male or female.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is got to be one of the scariest things for
somebody to go through while they`re on a roller coaster.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s still no end of this computer glitches
that are slowing everyone down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two Trender, count on me.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Less than 10 Americans have signed up for

REP. HOWARD BUCK MCKEON, (R) CALIFORNIA: It`s a very small number.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A congressman has number trouble.

MCKEON: And so far they have people in the single digits that have
signed up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What the heck come after 6?

BLITZER: So single .

MCKEON: A single digit would be less than 10.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did you learn to count?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top trender, red flag.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to convince me why we do this rate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At a failure did increase the borrowing limit and
the selective US default could seriously damage the global economy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Republicans spread debt limit denial.

SEN. RAND PAUL, (R) KENTUCKY: The Democrats are scaring people saying
we might not pay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Default is when you can`t service you debt we have
enough money coming in.

PAUL: If you don`t raise the debt ceiling what that means is you have
a balance budget.

chaos, these are some of the more polite words.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Getting to debt ceiling doesn`t call craze or


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight Congressman Jim Moran of Virginia.
Congressman good to have you with us.

Do these Tea Party members of Congress believe we will actually avoid
default or are they intentionally misleading the public?

REP. JIM MORAN, (D) VIRGINIA: Ed, they don`t know enough to know what
they don`t know. But the landscape is shifting. It`s shifting away from
these knuckle heads who don`t understand the way our international
financial system works, the fact that the millions of checks that the
government has to send out are all computerized. You just can`t stop that.

But when I say the landscape is shifting I suspect we`re going to have
a deal tomorrow or at least one that the House Republican leadership wants
that where they may bring a clean, debt ceiling increase to the House
floor, but it would be decoupled from the government shutdown. So the
government will continue .

SCHULTZ: Would you support that?

MORAN: No. I don`t. And the reason I don`t, Ed is that I think they
have heard from Wall Street and they don`t want to incur a Wall Street`s

Now, there are tens of millions of people who also would be hurt by a
debt ceiling default. I suspect that`s not their motivation though. I
think they heard from some of the bond holders and they get, you know, the
big hedge fund managers and the like and Wall Street said, "Don`t do this."

So, they`re not going to -- they`re going to try not to do. The
problem is if you don`t open up the government we know that there are
millions of people being hurt by the government shutdown. (inaudible)

SCHULTZ: So, at this hour .

MORAN: The whole American public is being hurt and really needs to be
coupled with opening up the government. If they`ll open up the government,
if they raise the debt ceiling then we can talk and we can start to move
forward finally.

SCHULTZ: OK. And that is the key point. Will the Democrats hold the
line that we`re not going to do anything until you open up the government
and then we`ll talk debt ceiling, is that where the caucus is right now?

MORAN: I hope that`s where the -- this, as I say this is just
happening as we`re talking.


MORAN: I think that`s where the caucus will be. And I think in the
Senate Harry Reid is going to say, "No" and even the Republican Senators
are going to say "No. We can`t decouple this. We got to do both things
that at the same time."

The Senate obviously is there, you know, its original purpose was to
keep the House in line and finally it`s going back to its original purpose


MORAN: . of showing some common sense.

And so, I think there`s going to be bipartisan resistance on the
Senate side. But I do think the House leadership wants to increase the
debt ceiling along and I would hope that that would be resisted enough.
You better keep it off the floor or to be defeated in the rule vote.

SCHULTZ: It just appears to me that the Republicans are so wrong
headed on this with the public attacking in the polls that Boehner had to
come out with something today, the changes, give him a new fresh set of
talking points and try to reverse the blame, get the mojo back and say,
"See it`s really President Obama. We`ve moved on something and try to
convince the American people, well, you know, we`ve compromised."
Compromise on what?

Bottom line is he has the power to do something about it. All of you
have been saying that. I think the country understands it. But what it
comes down to is that really the ball is in the Democrats` court right now.
You have all these momentum, and you have the people behind you.

If there is a crack in the Democratic caucus this is going to going to
create new problems. Wouldn`t you think?

MORAN: Oh, absolutely, Ed. Yeah, you`re absolutely right. And
basically what they would do is just bring us back to the starting point.

We still have a government shutdown. And -- But, you know, I`m not
sure that Speaker Boehner is not influenced by public polls.


MORAN: I think the real poll that matters his contributor based.
It`s the contributor based to the Republicans Party.

SCHULTZ: What do you make of .

MORAN: And they`re getting nervous I suspect.

SCHULTZ: And Congressman what do you make in the involvement of the
Koch Brothers? I mean they send a letter and after this gets through the
next day Boehner comes out with this.

I mean it`s very clear that they have got insurmountable power with
the Republican caucus.

MORAN: Ed, I was told by somebody that was one of the original
founders of the hedge fund industry. He`s to told me the Koch Brothers
have 500 daily traders manipulating stocks, buying and selling all the

They have an enormous interest and it`s almost a controlling interest
particularly if they can control the Republican leadership. So you know, a
lot of stuff goes on behind the scenes, much of it we have to speculate
about, but I think that the public`s interest is not necessarily what`s
motivating what the Republican leadership has in mind now.

I -- They -- It was a good thing that they would raise the debt
ceiling. And I want to applaud them for agreeing to do that but I don`t
think the debt ceiling should be raised without coupling it with a similar
bill that would open up the government so government .


MORAN: . force can go back to work.

SCHULTZ: And finally, Congressman Jim Moran of Virginia with us here
tonight. Finally, would you vote if they open up the government in the
shutdown, would you go along with the six-week extension of the debt limit?

MORAN: Yes. I would. Yeah. I don`t want to do that.


MORAN: I think it should be at least a year.


MORAN: But, you know, you have to compromise. Let`s just at least
keep moving forward. If we stop in our tracks, you know, there`s going to
be chaos and we can`t allow that to happen.

SCHULTZ: All right.

MORAN: There are just too many people that would be hurt by a debt
ceiling default.

SCHULTZ: Direct question, direct answer. Thanks, Congressman I
appreciate it so much. Jim Moran with us here tonight at the Ed Show.

Up next, cattle prod? We`ll explain how a perfect storm of politics
in nature are making the bread basket of the Tea Partiers regret their
political pride.

Plus in pretenders, CNN`s Blitzer, the captain of the so-called best
political news team around goes to war against ObamaCare. But next, I`m
taking your questions, Ask Ed Live here on MSNBC. We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We love hearing from you, love
the questions. Thanks for interacting with us. Ask Ed Live tonight.

Our first question comes from Wayne. He wants to know, wouldn`t a
short-term deal just have us in this same position again in a few weeks?
Absolutely, but it would buy Boehner time to convince the American people
the independence, or whoever he thinks is going to be following the
Republican party, it would give them more time to position them better
against the President, make the President the villain, run his numbers down
even further, and maybe win over a few people. The big thing is that
they`re going after the big three. They`re going to need time to do that.

Our next question is from Aria. Are the Republicans in Congress going
to act this stupid every time we have a black president? Stupid? I think
the word would be spiteful. I don`t know. They are a party right now that
doesn`t have a whole heck of lot of diversity. And they really don`t seem
to be too concerned about that. They`re more concerned with suppressing
votes, and attacking women`s rights, and voter rights, and all of those
kinds of things, and gerrymandering.

So I really don`t think they`re too concerned about having another
black president. They think in the big long-term game plan, they can
prevent that.

Stick around. Rapid Response Panel is next.


SCHULTZ: Thanks for watching tonight. Now, this is a story that is a
little bit off the beat in path. The Tea Party in this country thrives in
rural America, Middle America. You know, where folks tend to vote for the
shrink the government Republicans who will take a hatch with any budget
they can get their hands on.

So, we`ve gone all this dysfunction going on in Washington, nobody can
decide on anything and now we`ve got this devastating early fall blizzard
in the middle of the country. Well, what is that done? It has created the
perfect storm in the plains of Middle America. It shines a light on the
dangers of voting against your own self interest.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s like a war crime thing almost, I mean you
never see piles like that and death everywhere of that magnitude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a disaster. And the government`s hands are
tied since the old farm bill expired at the beginning of the month there is
no current livestock disaster program available and some individuals might
be on their own.


SCHULTZ: What? You mean the folks of Middle America who vote for the
Tea Partiers are being hung out to dry, their cattle are dead because of a
disaster? Ranchers you see they have no federal help right now. Remember
even before the government shutdown Republican extremist injected their
ideology in the places that it really didn`t belong, case in point the farm

You know, on the past come on the farm bill was something that
everybody could agree on both sides of the aisle they knew where they were
going to get it they might had a few mistaken points here and there but
then we always had a farm bill.

The 2008 farm bill when did it expire? Not long ago, October 1st.
After Republicans of course spent months holding the bill hostage demanding
that we slash billions of dollars from food stamp programs across America.

Now, under the farm bill when it was active ranches affected by
disasters like this could apply for relief under livestock indemnity
program and get paid a portion of the animal`s market value. But of course
we don`t have a farm bill, we don`t have people that can get along, we`re
spending too much money.

Now, at this point even if we had a farm bill the government shutdown
means that they couldn`t have done anything anyway, totally paralyzed
across the board.

So, rural America let me ask you tonight how do you really feel about
the Tea Party? How does it feel to have those cattle out in the field dead
and now starting to disease and you have to remove them? And, oh by the
way the local FSA offices close, what`s that? That`s the Farm Service
Agency office that takes care of all of this stuff when it comes to
recording disaster. Well, they`ve been furloughed. So, what does that
mean for folks in Americas breadbasket?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mcintyre says, unless anything gets done soon with
the federal government, FEMA, and assistance, he expects a lot of producers
are going to be out of business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Short of insurance? You know, producers are
pretty much on their own, the state`s trying to do what they can, but
realistically the state can`t banker all these type of a loss. Our reports
are saying anywhere from 5 to 20 percent of all cattle in Western and South
Dakota may have been lost with this.


SCHULTZ: Did he say out of business? Wow, I thought the Republicans
were all about small business, all about the guys out on the prairie who
vote them in to cut them federal budgets.

Some estimates say that as many as 75,000 had a cattle are going to be
lost. The US Department of Agriculture`s website where farmers affected by
the storm could find information looks like this.

The Farm Service Agency which files the paper, who are dealing with
losses as I said, well they`ve got lost in their own, their offices are
furloughed so the employees are in resources, well they`re simply not
there. You see FEMA one of the Republican Party`s favorite targets could
be crucial to the recovery for this region instead these ranchers who
provide food across America and food security well, you know, what they`re
just on their own, they`ve lost their herd, they`ve lost their livelihood,
and possibly as that reporter said they could be going out of business.

Johnny lost the farm in fourth generation and the Tea Partiers they
just keep voting on those psychos that just want to get rid of government
across the board, you know what this is? This is Red America, this is in a
Red State where many ranchers vote for these reckless, budget-slashing
Republicans. These Tea Partiers are the ones who complain about welfare
queens and pork programs.

Now, I would venture to say that they`d like to have that storm back.
I venture to say that they could probably use a little federal support
right now. But of course today John Boehner didn`t address the shutdown.
He addressed the debt ceiling. Now what do you think in Middle America?
Is this the way you want your country to look?

Now this is an obscure story. Here I am in New York City, I bet
nobody in New York City is thinking about this. It`s one of this middle of
the country fly over places. Well, you know what? You want to go down to
your local steakhouse here in New York City, you know where all the prime
beef comes from, where all those cattle are laying dead in America.

Joining me now our Rapid Response Panel Clarence Page in the Chicago
Tribune, also EJ Dionne of the Washington Post, and Katrina Vanden Heuvel
of The Nation.

Katrina, you first. I suppose we could go write down the list and
find story after story after story about what the shutdown has done to the
American system and the American people.

to step back. I mean we`ve seen in many decades long campaign to demonize
government. And this government can do no good as if government can`t lift
up people.

We`re now living at a time when 95 percent of the economic gains for
the last few years we`ve gone to 1 percent. No boats have been lifted by
cutting taxes, smaller government deregulation. In fact, we`re losing the
social mobility that made the American dream.

So you got -- a part of this country, Ed that needs to remember that
the great civilizing reforms of the 20th Century are embedded in their
lives, their family`s lives. I mean you talk about the farm bill, think of
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the agencies that keep our children`s
water and food clean.

So I think we`ve got to remember that and tell the Tea Party, "You
know, we`re in this together. And stop tackling good government workers.
Tackle those overpaid, under taxed CEOs in Wall Street. Focus your eye on
not denouncing and renouncing government, but recapturing and restoring it
for the common good and share posterity.


VANDEN HEUVEL: We can speak that way. And in New York City, Ed, we
lived it when this city was ravaged as with New Jersey, parts of Vermont by
Hurricane Sandy.

SCHULTZ: Exactly. Exactly. And Clarence Page, do you think that
events like this can change people how they think politically?

CLARENCE PAGE, CHICAGO TRIBUNE: Well, especially if people put into
context, you know, the farm bill is misnamed because most of the money goes
to food stamps which the Right Wing views as a giveaway. But it`s actually
-- it actually helps people, to aid working people as well as folks who are
in poverty. It also helps the farm industry the cost, it and helps more of
their products to be sold, it helps the grocers out there. Everybody wins.

I remember engineer (ph) members the late Bill Gray when he was
Democratic Whip he used to call it daycare for cows because it was a kind
of a bill that covered urban people, suburban and rural people, everybody
benefited. And what now the new Right Wing rhetoric breaks it apart and
acts like this is some terrible subversive giveaway. And you see the
results. This is one example here as far as farm disaster relief.


PAGE: There are some places where government is necessary.

SCHULTZ: Republican Senator John Thune at South Dakota is asking for
FSA agency employees to be deemed as essential so that they can go back to
work and it`s just another piecemeal approach. But EJ Dionne, this is the
Tea Party America at work, isn`t it?

EJ DIONNE, WASHINGTON POST: Well, you know, when I heard that you
were doing this story, what came to mind is an interview I did some years
ago with Senator Bill Cowen, the moderate Republican from Maine, and what
he told me keeps coming back. It was after a terrible airplane crash and
people who sometimes condemned regulation, we`re asking where the safety
regulators were and what Bill Cowen said is, "Government is the enemy until
you need a friend."

And I think that`s exactly what we`re talking about here. It`s quite
possible that some -- that folks in some of those towns had then opposed to
government in general and voted along those lines. And yet they assume
that when they fell on hard times that were no fault to theirs, they didn`t
cause this blizzard, the government would be there to help them out .


DIONNE: . not bail them out, but just put them back on their feet.
And I think we have to stop thinking that every form of government help
form .

SCHULTZ: Yes, every form is bad.

DIONNE: . as a hand out or dependency.

SCHULTZ: They brought you everything to get rid of it. I want all of
you on your quick take today on what has unfolded with Boehner`s move.
Katrina, what do you think?

VANDEN HEUVEL: I think it`s cynical and I think this government can`t
be running this jump-start way. They just want more time so they can go
back, continuing to demonize the role of government. So I think we need a
better answer.

And the danger is, Ed, they`re going to cut the very programs I was
just talking about. Those that have made this a more civilized country
instead of cutting Social Security we should be expanding it, we should be
building out ObamaCare, a program that they are terrified will be so
successful that they`ve just spent the last year defunding, degrading and
now trying to repeal, end it democratically.

SCHULTZ: Clarence, what you think?

PAGE: I`m so happy to see Boehner and the rest take some move in the
direction of common sense, but I am hesitant to criticize this as cynical
but there are cynical elements that they are focused on the debt ceiling
and not on this shutdown need to restore everything.

SCHULTZ: EJ, is this the time for the Democrats to be strong? Are
they in a position of strength?

DIONNE: I think they are. I think this is a sign that John Boehner
knows this has been a terrible strategy. The Republicans are going down in
the polls and he`s got to change the story line. He keeps laying track in
front of the train .


DIONNE: . as it goes down the tracks. And I think that Obama`s
desperate to get that debt ceiling raised, but to keep the government shut
at the same time seems a very strange idea.

SCHULTZ: EJ Dionne, Clarence Page, Katrina Vanden Heuvel, great to
have you with us on the Ed Show. Thank you so much.

HEUVEL: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Still ahead, a new fast-food joint gets with the times, gets
contemporary. This business is taking on the big change, showing them how
to treat employees the right way. Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And Pretenders tonight one of the most trusted names in news
our old buddy Wolf Blitzer been around long time. When Wolf is in Boston
to move he usually does some very straightforward reporting.

On Wednesday Wolf was talking with CNN Correspondent Brian Todd about
the Republican effort to delay ObamaCare. Todd was reporting on the
glitches on the ObamaCare website when Blitzer turned the situation room
into the opinion room.


BLITZER: If they had three years to get this ready, if they did -- if
they didn`t -- if they weren`t fully ready they should accept the advice
that a lot of Republicans are giving them, delaying another year, get it
ready, and make sure it works.


SCHULTZ: Oh, Blitzer must have known he really stepped in at big
time. The long time television news expert ran to Twitter after the show.
Wolf tweeted out, "Context matters. Earlier I said the government
shouldn`t have launched the website before it works. I did not express a
view about the individual mandate. Well, Wolf is right, context does

Let`s take a look at what he said again.


BLITZER: If they had three years to get this ready, if they did -- if
they didn`t -- if they weren`t fully ready they should accept the advice
that a lot of Republicans are giving him.


SCHULTZ: Wolf, any straight newscaster worth their weight knows
Republicans don`t want to delay ObamaCare to fix our freaking website. If
Wolf Blitzer thinks he is part of the best political team in television and
can spit out Republican garbage like that, he can keep on Pretending.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This is the story for the
folks who take a shower after work. Fast-food workers started striking and
calling for higher wages in New York last fall with the support from the
Service Employees International Union.

Since then demonstrations have been held in Detroit, Chicago, St.
Louis, and dozens of other cities. Now, a new burger and chicken joint in
Dearborn Heights Michigan is breaking the mold and setting a new tone.

Moo Cluck Moo is paying its workers $15 an hour. Owners say that they
want to keep and attract good workers, it`s not a response to the pressure
from activist nor was it a ploy to generate free publicity, but I sure love
the story.

Harry Moorhouse is the co-founder of Moo Cluck Moo and he joins me
tonight. Harry, congratulations. What`s the philosophy here? You`re
actually paying a living wage. You`re people are going to make $31,200 a
year on 40-hours a week for 52 weeks. What`s the philosophy? Why are you
doing this?

thing to do, Ed. That`s what we thought from the beginning. And when we
opened in April, we were paying $12 an hour right out of the gate and then
when we saw people demonstrating for $15, we wanted to get in and step with
that. We didn`t think it was a big leap for us to pay $15 an hour. But it
is the right thing to do.

SCHULTZ: What kind of response are you getting from -- what kind of
response you getting from the community?

MOORHOUSE: Well, the community loves us. We get a lot of people to
come in and shake our hand. And of course there`s naysayers that think
we`re going to ruin the industry by somehow contributing to inflation. But
I`m here to tell you, my partner and I Bryan are using better ingredients,
paying our employees $15 an hour, our prices are very reasonable, we have a
$3-hamburger and we don`t know why everyone else doesn`t do it because we
can certainly make money using this model.

SCHULTZ: OK. So you`re sending a message to the big chains out
there. You got to be right by the workers.

MOORHOUSE: Well, I don`t know if we`re sending a message to the big
chains. But we`re certainly sending a message to the workers that they
deserve to have a living wage however its defined because most of our
workers are raising families, they have kids, and they want to contribute
to this country just as much as anybody else. They don`t want .

SCHULTZ: Well you .

MOORHOUSE: . mistake from the country.

SCHULTZ: You are contributing. What kind of employees are you

MOORHOUSE: Well, we`ve started everybody from scratch. We`ve had
people with no experience, people with some experience that started with us
and we`ve cross trained everybody so that they could do everything in the
store. They can run the line, they can do the prep, they can run the
counter, they can answer the phone, they can do everything in the store and
that way they`re more valuable to us, they`re more valuable to the
business. And quite frankly, we`re not seeing the turnover that everyone
told us to expect in this business.

SCHULTZ: Lots of tough economic news out of the state of Michigan
especially around Detroit. If Governor Snyder came in to your place, would
you serve him a burger?

MOORHOUSE: Oh, absolutely. He can -- He is well as anyone else can
give us $3 for a hamburger. We`re happy to do it.

SCHULTZ: And there`s no pushback that you`re prices are too high,
you`re very competitive, and how big do you want to get, Harry? How many
stores do you want to have?

MOORHOUSE: Well, we hoped to have three more stores in the Detroit
area next summer. And quite frankly, we`ve been surprised at how -- that
we`ve had a lot of people reach out to us from around the country and say,
"Please come to our community."

SCHULTZ: There you go.

MOORHOUSE: So we look forward to that.

SCHULTZ: Harry Moorhouse, congratulations. You are doing a great
thing for workers. I admire what you`re doing. Moo Cluck Moo, when I get
to Dearborn Heights Michigan I`m ordering, probably a double order I`ve
been known for that. Good to have you on, Harry.

Thank you. That`s the Ed Show, I`m Ed Schultz.

Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good
evening, Rev.


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