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PoliticsNation, Wednesday, October 9, 2013

Read the transcript from the Wednesday show

October 9, 2013
Guest: Chaka Fattah


And thanks to you for tuning in. Tonight`s Lead, GOP in isolation.
Day nine of the shutdown and the Party is showing signs of serious Stress.
There are now deep divisions and sharp criticism of the Tea Party
Republicans from some of their biggest supporters. We`ll talk about that.

Also today, just moments ago, President Obama and House Democrats
wrapped up a meeting at the White House. Tomorrow, Republican leadership
will meet with President Obama. Earlier, a somber reminder of the pain of
the Republican shutdown and what it is causing.

Four fallen military service members arrived at Dover Air Force base.
Because of the GOP shutdown, their families were denied death benefits that
would have covered cost of travel. The National outrage sends Speaker
Boehner into damage control mode today, voting to allow death benefits be
paid during the shutdown in the United States of America. For this to
happens, our troops deserve better.

None of this had to happen. And now we are learning Boehner is really
feeling the heat. "The New York Times" reporting tonight the Republican
Party is quote, "increasingly isolated." Their biggest business supporters
are now demanding the immediate reopening of the government.

Today, the National Retail Federation sent a letter to Congress
warning of the damage to consumer confidence. They join the right wing
chamber of commerce in pressuring the GOP and the national association of
manufacturers. This demand to reopen the government comes as people across
the country are still being hurt.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The small business association stopped
processing loans during the government shutdown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we went to the bank that morning and, you
know, they said sorry, this is a no go, and they told me why. I mean, I
felt my heart hit the floor. I had an awesome job that I left to follow
the American dream and I can`t do anything about it now.

bank says 75 furloughed employees at the base will receive free food for
their families as the entire truckload to boast New Mexicans struggling as
the federal shutdowns effects of begin to creep into the day to day lives
of many.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Many are our own donors who give us food, for
example, and give us funds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The government shutdown has forced the North
Carolina department of health and human services to get a-hold on the
Women`s Infants and Children program, also known as WIC.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had a call this morning because I have
something to bring my grandson and be reserve at, so the lady had told me,
it is all right that (INAUDIBLE). But the thing is, we`re not going to get
WIC today. You know what? To tell you the truth. I don`t know. We`re
not starved, are we?


SHARPTON: Speaker Boehner could make this all go away right now but
he refuses to take a vote. That is why we are seeing this, a five percent
approval rate, it is an all-time low. Is there any wonder why they are
feeling isolated?

Joining me now are Congressmen Chaka Fattah, Democrat from
Pennsylvania and MSNBC` Abby Huntsman.

Thank you both for being here.


REP. CHAKA FATTAH (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Thank you for having me. I just
left a meeting with the president.

SHARPTON: Yes. I was going to ask you about that. You just came
from a White House meeting with the house Democrats. And let me ask you
about that meeting and about reports the GOP is getting isolated. What is
the sense from Democrats on where this is going?

FATTAH: Well, we think that the Republicans have went down the wrong
road and it is a dead end. And at some point, that rather than more
aggressively prosecuted in there was down their road to the dead end. They
need to turn around. And what the president said was that, you know, he is
not going to compromise, as I said two weeks ago when I was on your show,
on the issues at hand. That is that the government has to run in its
normal operation. And the government has to pay its bills.

Now, in terms of the fair negotiations with the other party on things
that we`re concerned about and things that they`re concerned about, we can
have those negotiations, but he`s not willing to have our nation held
hostage. He was very clear about that. But I think he`s got an
outstretched arm and hand to speaker Boehner that look, let`s get back to
regular order, let`s pay our bills, and then let`s sit down and talk
through whatever the concerns of the Republican party may be.

SHARPTON: Well, Congressman, as much as you can, take us inside the
White House meeting. What happened in the meeting that you can share with

FATTAH: Well, I can share this. The president says he`s always been
amazed that you have so many climate deniers. But then you have got
default deniers. You got people running around saying that if the
government doesn`t pay its bills, if the full faith and credit of the
United States, which has always been the gold standard in the world is just
pushed aside it won`t have any effect. This is the most radical, extremist
notion that we could be a deadbeat nation and somehow it`s not going to
affect our markets and our economy, it`s the most dangerous language we
have really heard from people promulgated from the other side, members of
who should know much better about this.

SHARPTON: You know, Abby, the fact of the matter is when you hear
that they are default deniers, and you hear it in the context of climate
control deniers, I mean, that`s pretty, pretty scary that we have people
that will make a decision on whether or not we deal with the debt limit
that really are in denial that default in this regard would have the impact
that it in fact will have.

HUNTSMAN: It`s incredibly scary, and that`s why we`re in this
position right now, I mean, you can throw out this anti-government
rhetoric. That`s all fine and well until you see what actually happens
when you can`t pay the bills. I mean, when you see you can`t pay the
families who have soldiers that lost their lives in Afghanistan. You can`t
pay for research at the CEP and track the flu that affects 24,000 people
every year. You can`t, you know, when it comes to doing research, for
example. I mean, all that`s been cut off.

These American lines are on the line. You have two million people
that aren`t getting paid. They`re not sure when they`re going to get paid
again. I mean, if they rely on this for daily expenses, whether it`s
mortgages, whether it is going to the store to buy food for their families.

SHARPTON: Many survive check to check.


SHARPTON: But you know, Congressman, Abby mentioned these military
families. I mean, we are talking about people that died protecting
Americans, died in the service of this country. Listen to what the
president said when he was asked about military families.


actually that`s got to solved today. I just said administratively. I`m
not going to wait for Congress. And I asked Chuck Hagel, secretary of
defense, to go ahead and fix it. And it`s going to get fixed today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: What do you say to those folks, sorry?

OBAMA: No, what I say to them is we should never have been there in
the first place. What happened was is that the theory that we should
shutdown the government as a negotiation tactic should never have been done
in the first place. And it does a disservice to all the men and women in
uniform and all those who sacrificed for our freedom.


SHARPTON: I mean, Congressman, we should never have been there in the
first place, the president says. Can you imagine your child, my child
dying in the service of this country, and we are told we cannot help you,
because we want to stop a law that was already passed? I mean, can you
imagine the pain and anguish that must cause people who did nothing but
what was right for this country?

FATTAH: Well, that shows you the recklessness of all this, and
there`s all this talk about who`s to blame. There are three legs that
installed, House, Senate, president. The House is the one leg that says we
won`t keep the government open. The Senate says they will pass a clean CR
or a government operating bill. The president says he will sign a
government operating bill. The House says no, unless you give us all of
our demand, we won`t allow the government to function.

And not only did this disgraceful thing happen today, but all the
inspections from plant catastrophes around the country, chemical safety
plant expected had to stop. Inspections of our airplanes at the
maintenance terminals that airports have had to stop. We have had research
going on and paid for the national science foundation which has to be put
on hold and will wipe out a year`s worth of work for some of the world`s
best scientists because of this nonsense, all to attempt to have us deny
affordable care, which never was going to happen.

This is a dead-end road. They were never going to get the president
to retreat or equivocate. And now they seem to, based on Paul Ryan today
seem to have admitted that, well, they need to get back to some more normal
discussions about what political parties want. Democrats want a lot of
things. We want immigration. We want background checks. You know, we
want more funding for universal child care and education. So let`s have a
discussion about that, but not at the threat of cutting and closing down
our government.

SHARPTON: Abby, there is this times article about the isolation of
the GOP. Now, some of their own business allies in the business community,
major players are calling on them to end this shutdown immediately. What
is your view of that, and will this bring them toward any level of rational
behavior here?

HUNTSMAN: That is a great question. I wish I could answer that. And
I wish the answer was yes. It`s really no surprise that the American
people seem dysfunction in Washington. As a bigger problem today in the
economy, I mean, that is where we are at.

The biggest issue for Republicans is there is no authority, you know.
We know that speaker Boehner has not been able to really show, exert any
sort of leadership for a long time now. So they are in a position now
where the tea partiers as we know, they`re not likely to budge on this.
What it`s going to take is speaker Boehner to exert some of that

I don`t know that`s going to happen in the near future. I don`t see
it happening, but it`s going to have to happen. You see folks like Senator
McCain, rational voices who are trying to make some sense saying look, we
know how this is going to end. We see the writing on the wall here. It`s
time to throw-in the towel. Unless you`re affecting the outcome of the
election of these members in the House in 2014, they are not willing to
listen. They really don`t care what anyone has to say.

SHARPTON: No. Well, you can tell how bad it is when I`m saying John
McCain is rational. But at least in this point, he is.

Congressman Chaka Fattah and Abby Huntsman, thank you both for your
time tonight.

HUNTSMAN: Thanks, Rev.

FATTAH: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Be lure and catch Abby on "the Cycle," weekdays at 3:00
right here on MSNBC.

Still ahead, a big surrender from the billionaire boys club, funding
the shutdown, President Obama`s winning, and the Koch brothers are
beginning to crumble.

Plus, the GOP`s raging hypocrisy. They love to praise him except when
he`s on the same page as President Obama.

And the right wing`s offensive new attacks on health care and the
health care law, comparing the president`s signature achievement to the
most shameful period in American history.

Also, what`s on your mind, e-mail me. Friend or foe, I want to know.
"Reply Al" is ahead.


SHARPTON: You have joined the "Politics Nation" conversation on
facebook yet? We hope you will. Today, our fans were giving advice to
Congress, which, thanks to the Republicans is suffering from its lowest
approval rating ever.

Vickie says, my advice, start listening to the people and get on with
doing their jobs.

Mary says focus on what is important. The people who live here in
America and pay taxes to pay your high salaries.

All good advice. What would your advice be? We want to know. Please
head over to facebook and search "Politics Nation" and like us to join the
conversation that keeps going long after the show ends.


SHARPTON: We are on the verge of something never seen in America.
Eight days away from hitting the debt ceiling. The treasury department
warned credit markets could freeze. The dollar could plummet. Interest
rates will skyrocket. And we could see, quote, "a recession that could
echo the events of 2008 or worse." But Senator Toomey doesn`t buy it.
Here he is this morning.


SEN. PAT TOOMEY (R), PENNSYLVANIA: There`s zero chance that the U.S.
government is going to default even its debt. It`s unfortunate that people
have conflated this idea of not raising the debt ceiling immediately on
October 17th with somehow defaulting on our debt. I haven`t heard any of
my Republican colleagues suggest that it might be OK to default on our


SHARPTON: Oh, yes. No Republican is saying it`s OK to default except
Congressman Ted Yoho. He said it would quote "bring stability to the world
markets." And Congressman Mike (INAUDIBLE), called it one of the best
things that could happen for young people. Oh, and then there`s this star
team of debt deniers.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The debt ceiling has never not been raised. So
there is no debt ceiling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think the credit of the United States is
going to be collapsed. I think all this talk about a default has been a
lot of false demagoguery, a lot of falls demagoguery.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: If you don`t raise the debt ceiling
what that means is you would have a balance budget. It doesn`t mean you
wouldn`t pay your bills.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone who uses the word default is being horribly

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This talk about default by the U.S. treasury is


SHARPTON: No. No. It`s not nonsense. It`s fact. It`s time to come
back to reality before more damage is done to the country.

Joining me now is Jared Bernstein, former chief economist for vice
president and of course, thank you for coming on the show tonight.

Jared, I want to get right to it. What is your response to
Republicans saying that this is no big deal?

misstatements in normal times when we didn`t have already a fragile
underlying economy and we weren`t literally days away from what I view and
most economists view as a possibly cataclysmic mistake, it`s horrific. I
just don`t know the words for it.

Look, here`s the very simple economics. What they are trying to say
is that the treasury can pay off our creditors based on daily cash flow.
Revenues come in even after the debt ceiling is not raised.

But what they cannot say is the following -- can the treasury pay all
of its bills? Of course not. So if the treasury decides to pay one
creditor but not a Social Security beneficiary, not a soldier, not a
defense contractor. That is default by another name. So they are, they
couldn`t be more wrong.

SHARPTON: That is the point. Once it hits that ceiling on the 17th,
then it becomes a period of where some bills have to not be paid, and it
increases and increases.

I want to go back to "The New York Times" report on business groups
calling for the end of the shutdown. Here`s what they say. In a letter to
Congress, the president of the national retail federation said, quote, "we
strongly support passage of both a continuing resolution to provide for
funding of the federal government into the next fiscal year and a measure
to raise the nation`s debt ceiling."

Now these are people that are customarily supportive of conservative
or right-wing causes. Why would they write that, Jared?

BERNSTEIN: Look. Unfortunately, the extremist faction is not moved
at all by the contradiction business community pressure that you could
count on to the time like this to kind of the extremist to the side. And
really, the problem right now is less the Ted Cruz and the Bachman`s. It`s
all these alleged moderates who should know better but refuse to eschew the
extremists. Maybe because they are worried about their own primary.

Let me make one other point on the economics quickly. You can`t even
guarantee that you will be able to pay your creditors if we fail to raise
the debt ceiling. Because it`s very easy to imagine a day, and that`s all
it takes is one day, where the cash flow is too low to pay the interest
with the principle and its coming due. So, all of what you just heard is
phony from those guys, phony and dangerous.

SHARPTON: Well, let me raise to you a champion of those guys and what
he had to say in 1985 about the debt ceiling debate. Listen to this.


our history has the federal government failed to honor its financial
obligations. To fail to do so now would be an outrage and the Congress
must understand this and bear full responsibility.


SHARPTON: I have never heard a name more used by the right wing than
Ronald Reagan. And that is what Ronald Reagan said about debt ceiling.
How can they come as Reaganites and say the kinds of things that I played
to you that they said?

BERNSTEIN: Two things. First of all, you know, as well as I do, that
Ronald Reagan would be kicked out of the Republican Party today for being
too centrists. And second, remember, what they`re telling you is no, we
can meet our obligations with cash flow. That is patently wrong. We
cannot make our obligations with cash flow. We can maybe pay creditors,
maybe not. But that is not all of our obligations, not by half.

SHARPTON: Jared Bernstein, thank you for your time tonight.

BERNSTEIN: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, the right wing tend of using the language of
slavery to score political points just took an ugly new turn.

And they had secret meetings to take down President Obama, has been
hundreds of millions to defeat him, but today they blinked. That very big
news is ahead.


SHARPTON: President Obama has the billionaire boys club running
scared. Big news tonight about the Koch brothers waving the white flag on
the government shutdown. That`s next.



OBAMA: There aren`t a lot of functioning democracies around the world
that work this way, where you can basically have millionaires and
billionaires bank rolling whoever they want, however they want, in some
cases undisclosed. And what it means is, ordinaries are shut out of the


SHARPTON: President Obama taking on the billionaires that are
polluting our political process. And now signs that those billionaires are
running scared.

We told you about "the New Times" front page`s scoop which reveal the
government shutdown was moths in the plan, a plot hatched in secret by
coalition of conservative activists with the deep financial involvement of
the billionaire Koch brothers.

But today, the Koch brothers are backing away from the fight they
helped start. Koch industries sent this letter to lawmakers saying quote
"Koch has not taken a position on the legislative tactic of tying the
continuing resolution to defunding Obamacare, nor have we lobbied on
legislative provisions defunding Obamacare.

Haven`t taken a position? They finance the groups that planned the
shutdown. Just today, Politico reported the Koch brothers gave half a
million dollars to the group Heritage Action, which this summer even put on
a defund Obama tour with Ted Cruz.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: I also want to take a moment to welcome our
friends from heritage to the great state of Texas.


Now is the single best time we have to defund ObamaCare.



SHARPTON: The Koch brothers helped pay for events like this. And
then claimed not to have a position? On the defund movement? The truth is
they provided a lot of start up money for Americans for Prosperity. The so
called Astroturf group behind the Tea Party. And they helped fund this
creepy anti-Obama care ad, telling young people not to get insurance.

Pretty scary. But you know what`s scarier? The Koch Brothers` pledge
to personally spend $60 million to defeat beat President Obama. And the
Koch operative run a secret that donated $236 million to conservative
groups last year. Their money funds are a huge part of the conservative
world and paved the way for this shutdown. Charles Koch wanted the fight
declaring war before the 2012 election.


CHARLES KOCH, BUSINESSMAN: We`ve been talking about we have Saddam
Hussein, this is mother of all wars we`ve got in the next 18 months. For
the life or death of this country.


SHARPTON: The mother of all wars. Well, guess what? President Obama
won that war. Now he`s standing tough against the dead-end movement to
shutdown the government. And the Koch Brothers are waving the white flag.

Joining me now is Michael Isikoff, national investigative
correspondent for NBC News and MSNBC`s Karen Finney, thank you both for
being here.


with you.

SHARPTON: Michael, you reported on this letter the Koch brothers sent
to Congress. What`s behind it?

ISIKOFF: Well, first of all, it`s a pretty remarkable letter because
the Koch Brothers have been historically so quiet and secretive about
everything they do politically. And to have a public letter like this is
pretty extraordinary. But look, you`ve had, as you`ve pointed out, a lot
of attention in recent days about all the money that they have helped fund
to conservative groups that have been pressuring House Republicans to link
defunding ObamaCare to the continuing resolution, to shutdown the

And Harry Reid on the Senate floor the other day denounced the Koch
Brothers said they were responsible to how we got to where we are. And
it`s very clear they`re getting concerned, probably not so much about a
government shutdown but definitely about the idea of a government default.
They run a huge, multibillion dollar business. They`ve got huge
investments, not just in energy and oil pipelines, but in consumer

SHARPTON: So, Michael, are they concerned about their business
because the prospect over default over health care law is really scary.
And you wrote today, let me read what you said. "Privately Koch officials
have expressed concern to lawmakers that the prospect of a government
default over the ObamaCare issue would be a disaster for the economy. Are
they afraid for their businesses, Michael?

ISIKOFF: Well, look, they are on the economy. You know, they need
credit markets to be smooth for their businesses to function. So whether
it`s for them personally or the economy in general for which they are
inextricably intertwined, I think it would be hard to separate out. But
clearly they are concerned like a lot of other traditional backers of
Republican`s business groups, the Chamber of Commerce, National Association
of Manufacturers. They all joined a letter today making essentially the
same point, that they don`t want the economy to go over the cliff on this,
and they don`t want us to go into a default.

SHARPTON: Karen, does this show the Republican crackup?

FINNEY: It sure does. But it also shows that the Republicans, I
mean, we talked about this before. This is their own problem that they
have created coming home to roost. I mean, think about this. The Koch
Brothers are now trying to get help from others in Congress against those
Tea Party crazies that they funded, as you pointed out in your opening.


FINNEY: I mean, that`s how ridiculous this is. They maybe should pay
a little bit closer attention to where the money that they`re spending
actually goes. I mean, for them to now sort of say, we weren`t saying, you
know, we weren`t for, you know, ObamaCare, I mean, they also spent what was
it, $5 million in direct advertising against ObamaCare? So, you know,
Reverend, I have to say, this goes to something that I hold responsible
folks like the Koch Brothers, like any of the large donors to the
Republican Party, any of the rational people in the Republican Party. This
summer, when Ted Cruz was out there with Heritage doing these rallies,
trying to whip up the base and whip up the frenzy around defunding
ObamaCare and tying that to the cr, shame on them for not putting a stop to
it then. Because that`s why we`re at this point.

SHARPTON: And let me say this, Michael. You`ve talked about how
private they are, but they have sent a letter before. Last fall, Koch
industries sent thousands of employees a letter telling them to vote, and a
handy list of the candidates they endorsed, including Mitt Romney and Paul
Ryan. I mean, this is like blatant pressure from your employer.

ISIKOFF: Right. I mean, that`s, that`s something, part of get out to
vote efforts on the Republican side. There are plenty of comparable get
out to vote efforts on Democratic sides. But I think what I was referring
to is to be public about the lobbying process which is what they did here.


ISIKOFF: This was a letter to Congress stating their position, urging
and telling members of Congress where they stand. And usually they do that
in private, not in public.

SHARPTON: Now, you know, the guest list at their Koch events where
they have these retreats, it reads like a who`s who in the Republican
Party, reported attendees include Chris Christie, Paul Ryan, Jim DeMint,
Eric Cantor, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Judge Anthony Scalia, Judge
Clarence Thomas. I mean, how big is the influence to the Republican Party,

FINNEY: It`s huge, I mean, they give to -- and remember, we don`t
actually know the full breadth and depth because the way they raise money
is through these organizations that then give money to other


FINNEY: I mean, the money is flowing all throughout, from whether
it`s Freedom Works, Americans for Prosperity. I mean, you name it. They
are a huge influence. But, again, you know, I sort of feel like the Kochs
and some of the other conservatives, you can`t have it both ways, right.
Now they`re saying they don`t want to see us hit the debt limit and the
debt ceiling and have that crisis, but, again, they were fine with whipping
up the base and letting them get whipped up and push this for months and
months and months as long as maybe they thought there was going to be a
different outcome. And now it appears, ah-oh, this isn`t the outcome we
wanted. Now, they want to distance themselves.


FINNEY: I mean, you can`t have it both ways.

SHARPTON: Michael Isikoff and Karen Finney, I will have to leave it
there. Thanks for your time tonight.

ISIKOFF: Thank you. Good to be with you.

SHARPTON: Be sure to watch "DISRUPT" with Karen Finney weekends at
4:00 p.m. Eastern right here on MSNBC.

And one note, I invited the Koch Brothers to come on the show tonight,
they passed and declined further comment.

Ahead, comparing the health care law to slavery isn`t just for the
usual right-wing hate mongers. It just got bigger. That`s next.


SHARPTON: We`ve heard a lot of offensive right wing talking points
when it comes to the Affordable Care Act. But this one maybe the worst.
For some on the right, the president health care law is slavery.
Conservative columnist George Will is the latest to offer up this pearl of


Affordable Care Act is the law, as though we`re supposed to genuflect that
sunburst of insight and move on. Well, the fugitive slave act was the law.
Separate was equal was the law. Lots of things are the law and then we
changed them.


SHARPTON: The fugitive slave act. He`s comparing health care to a
law that allowed slave owners to get their escaped slaves back, even from
free states in the north. But George will isn`t the only pundit comparing
the law to slavery.


SARAH PALIN, FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: What Barack Obama seem does want
to do is go back to before those days when we were in different classes
based on income, based on color of skin.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: When the government forces hospitals and physicians
to provide free health care to those who can`t or won`t pay for it
themselves, that`s not charity, that`s slavery.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The Republicans, well, we can`t
do anything about it. That`s the law of the land. Well, so was slavery
one time the law of the land.


SHARPTON: Now you`d expect that kind of talk from Rush Limbaugh and
the FOX News crowd, but elected officials? Members of Congress? Yes.
They`re using it too.


REP. PAUL BROUN (R), GEORGIA: That free insurance card in people`s
pockets is going to be as worthless as a confederate dollar after the War
Between the States. The Great War of Yankee Aggression.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: With regards to the idea of whether or not you have
a right to a health care, you have to realize what that implies. It`s not
an obstruction. I`m physician. That means you have the right to come to
my house and conscript me. Means you believe in slavery.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: What is ObamaCare? It is as a lie, as destructive
to personal and individual liberty as the fugitive slave act of 1850 that
allowed slave owners to come to New Hampshire and seize African-Americans.


SHARPTON: Really? A hundred and fifty years ago, the Republican
Party was founded on one issue, to abolish slavery. Now the modern day GOP
has one issue as well. To oppose everything done by the nation`s first
black president.

Joining me now are Joe Madison and Ryan Grim, thank you both for
coming on the show tonight.

JOE MADISON, SIRIUS XM PATRIOT HOST: Thank you very much, Reverend

SHARPTON: Joe, what are Republicans trying to achieve when they
invoke slavery to attack the health care law?

MADISON: Trying to appeal to those who probably didn`t study the
fugitive slave act and probably only are search engine deep in the issue of
slavery. Look, common sense tells you, you`ve got eight million plus
people who are signing up to find out about the Affordable Care Act, right?
People signing up. Now you tell me, one person, one person who signed up
during the 400 years of slavery to get on a slave ship. Tell me one person
who says I want to find out this thing about slavery and Lord knows, I`m
ready to sign up. This is just how stupid this argument is. But, they`re
again, playing off this whole and abstract, racial discussion because it`s
President Obama.

SHARPTON: It`s insulting for others but --

MADISON: Insulting for most of us.

SHARPTON: Ryan, politically, tell me how this plays politically. I
mean, who are they trying to play to?

RYAN GRIM, THE HUFFINGTON POST: Well, I mean, anytime that they`re
mentioning slavery or they`re talking about the quote-un-quote war of
Yankee aggression, you know exactly who they`re playing to, their far, far
right wing base and the very regional base at that. And you know, what
George Will doesn`t seem to understand here is that the reason that
Democrats are so upset about the way that Republicans characterize this is
that they`re not saying that they`re going to, you know, repeal ObamaCare
by passing it through the House, passing a new law through the Senate,
having the president sign it. That`s how the legislative process works.


GRIM: Instead, what they`re saying is no, we`re going to blow up the
global economy if you don`t just delay this or defund it. You know, so if
you want to compare it to the, you know, other odious laws in the past,
those laws were repealed. You know, they went, they went through the
legislative process.

SHARPTON: They were not defunded.

GRIM: Right. They weren`t defunded. They weren`t delayed. And you
didn`t threaten, not just threaten to shutdown the government but actually
shutting down the government and then threaten to blow up the global

SHARPTON: You know, Joe, health care isn`t the only thing the right
wing is equated to slavery. Listen to this.


GLENN BECK, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Progressive policies are keeping
these people in slavery. Slavery to government, welfare, affirmative
action, regulation, control.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Slavery and abortion, the two most horrendous
things this country has done.

BECK: The legal immigration is modern day slavery.

REP. ALLEN WEST (R), FLORIDA: Now they`re looking toward going Social
Security disability which to me is a form of modern 21st century slavery.

BECK: It`s slavery. It is slavery.


SHARPTON: Now Justice Clarence Thomas evokes slavery in his opinion
on affirmative action. In arguing that affirmative action should be
abolished. He said, quote, "Slave holders argued that slavery was a
positive good, that civilized blacks and elevated them in every dimension
of life." Republicans even named an anti-abortion bill after abolitionist
Frederick Douglass, Joe. So, they use this slavery line and this
comparison to slavery, no matter how insulting and offensive to some of us.
They use it all the time through several issues.

MADISON: And they did it even decades ago when it came to Social
Security. They did it decades ago when it came to Medicare. The reality
is that, as you know, I know, and every thinking, compassionate human being
knows that slavery was human bondage.


MADISON: Slavery was an immoral act. And everyone knows that.
There`s nothing immoral about trying to feed children. There`s nothing
immoral about giving people an upper hand. What we understood about
slavery was the immorality of it, the inhumanness of it. The fact that it
literally killed millions of people. And, by the way, we fought a civil
war over it. This is what --

SHARPTON: And lost a lot of lives. And it was around people being

MADISON: That`s right.

SHARPTON: But Ryan, when you hear these comparisons to slavery and
these trying to connect these kinds of dots with ugliness, how does this
play to mainstream voters in this country?

GRIM: Well, I think it just makes them look totally off their rocker.
I mean, you know, let`s be clear about what we`re talking about here. You
know, what is ObamaCare? It is a, you know, small amount of subsidies for
private health care insurance.


GRIM: I mean, this is what`s going to destroy the country? I mean,
is our grasp on freedom in this country so fragile that a few subsidies for
private insurance are going to destroy that? Subsidies, by the way, which
they`re saying won`t even make insurance rates affordable enough for a lot
of low and middle income people. So, you know, are these insurance rates
too high and therefore ObamaCare is a failure? Or are they too low in
which case it is somehow comparable to slavery. I mean, they just don`t
make any sense whatsoever. And I think that, you know, the 80 percent of
the country watching this is going to agree with that and say, what are
they talking about, wait, a subsidy for health care is slavery? OK. I`m
not going to listen to anything else that these people have to say.

SHARPTON: Joe Madison, Ryan Grim, I`m going to have to leave there.
Thank you both for your time this evening.

MADISON: Thank you.

GRIM: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Last week, a GOP lawmaker told me, we don`t live in a
democracy. Now another Republican is getting some basic facts about
America wrong. It`s time for a civics lesson from Professor Al. That`s


SHARPTON: The shutdown has left me wondering just what Republicans
are thinking. But yesterday, Republican Congressman Markwayne Mullin from
Oklahoma tried selling his idea for cooperation in Washington, and it only
left me with more questions.


REP. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R), OKLAHOMA: This country isn`t ran by just
one individual. It`s ran by four branches, but three branches that are
controlled. As long as three branches control it, then we all have to
figure out how to negotiate.


SHARPTON: Wait a minute. Hold on. This is breaking news. How did I
miss this?


MULLIN: This country isn`t ran by just one individual. It`s ran by
four branches.


SHARPTON: When did they add another branch? Now maybe he thought the
House and Senate were separate branches, but, you know what? I`m not here
to criticize. We all make mistakes. So I`m here to help. How about a
little GOP civics lesson, shall we? Schools in session.

Call me Professor Sharpton. Let`s head over to the board, shall we?
Here are the three branches of government. The legislative, made up of the
Senate and the House. The executive. The president makes laws official.
And the judicial. The Supreme Court overseeing court system. So that
makes one, two, three. But hey, he probably took the right wing civics
class. That`s where they teach those other branches. The Koch brothers.
Sure, they may be rich enough to buy Congress.

And then the fifth branch. FOX News. Yes. They make their talking
points through that wing of the party, of the government. And sixth, the
Rush branch. He oversees the entire system. I can see how the congressman
got confused. So class is dismissed for the day, but Congressman, did you
think we`d ignore your failing grades? Nice try, but here`s your homework.
We got you.


SHARPTON: Finally tonight, President Obama leading on the shutdown
fight. He`s standing firm and refusing to breach a principle that would
weaken the presidency. In my new book, "The Rejected Stone," I write about
not being afraid of what you want and getting things done.


SHARPTON: Don`t be afraid to ask what you want, because many times I
find my own -- and the people I`ve observed that we beat around the point
rather than making the point. You`ve got to develop the courage to say
this is what I`m after, this is what I`m in it for. This is what I want.
And start from there and go back. As long as you avoid the point, you`re
really insecure about making the point.


SHARPTON: You know, I`m really excited for my new book. If you`d
like to read an excerpt, please go to our Facebook page, and find details about my next book signing in
Philadelphia tomorrow. I`ll be at the free library of Philadelphia on Vine
Street at 12:00 noon tomorrow. That`s 1901 Vine Street, Philadelphia. I
hope to see you all there.

As I talk about the book, it`s not just politics. In your personal
life, on the job. Don`t be afraid to say what you want and stand up for
it. That is how you go from being rejected to being who you want to be.
Life is about learning lessons. And one lesson I learned in reporting that
book is say what you want, don`t be afraid. Claim what you want, see what
you want, then you can be what you want. That`s how rejected stone becomes

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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