IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

PoliticsNation, Friday, October 18th, 2013

Read the transcript from the Friday show

October 18, 2013
Guest: Jim McDermott, Dana Milbank, Angela Rye, Michael Eric Dyson, Maria
Teresa Kumar

REV. AL SHARPTON, POLITICS NATION HOST: Thanks to you too. Thank you
Ed. Thanks to you for tuning in.

Tonight`s Lead, republicans refusing to accept the legitimacy of
President Obama. They now want to declare the 2012 election a quote,
"mistrial". That comment comes from this man. Former Senator Jim DeMint.
He is the Tea Partier who tried to use ObamaCare to quote "break the
president". And who was the driving force behind the government shutdown.

And now, in a new Wall Street Journal I`ve read out today, he says
quote "ObamaCare was not the central fight in 2012. The best thing is to
declare last year`s election a mistrial on ObamaCare". Declared the
election a mistrial? ObamaCare was not the central fight of 2012? Was he
watching the same campaign I was?


it was the right thing to do.

we`re going to get rid of Obamacare and return health care to t people.

Obamacare. And that`s exactly what we`re going to do.

ROMNEY: We get rid of Obamacare and replace it with real --

RYAN: Here is how you repeal Obamacare.

OBAMA: I said we`d pass health care reform. We passed it.


SHARPTON: Oh, you`re right, Mr. DeMint. Health care wasn`t an issue
at all in 2012. Let`s just declare it a mistrial. But he`s not the only
one. His buddy Ted Cruz, the senator who just shut down the government
over health care, is now saying this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: So you would do it again?

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: I would do anything and I will continue to
do anything I can to stop the train wreck that is Obamacare.


SHARPTON: They`ll do anything to stop this president. That`s the
GOP`s game plan going forward. Don`t like a policy? Declare a mistrial.
Don`t like a president? Try and declare mistrial on him too.

We`re learning that just this week, GOP Congressman Steve Stockman
sent a book on impeaching President Obama to all 435 members of the House,
a sitting member of Congress peddling impeachment. These Republicans just
can`t accept this president as legitimate. They`re acting like the
election meant nothing. Declare a mistrial? Sixty million Americans
delivered a verdict for President Obama and against the GOP.

Joining me now is Congressman Jim McDermott, Democrat from Washington
and Melissa Harris-Perry, host of "the Melissa Harris-Perry show."

Thank you both for coming on the show.


SHARPTON: Congressman, I want to put that DeMint comment up again.
Quote, "the best thing is to declare last year`s election as mistrial on
Obamacare." How do you respond to that?

MCDERMOTT: Well, you know, Rev., it`s kind of sad. They`ve run the
let`s run the country over the cliff strategy and that didn`t work. And so
now back at the second one of the Republican strategies. That is let`s
impeach the president.

That`s exactly what they did to Clinton and they are going to fail at
this. They simply believe that it`s an impeachable offense if they don`t
agree with it. The Supreme Court has looked at it and declared it to be
constitutional and yet they keep coming back. And right now, as you may
know, they`ve already started filing lawsuits all over the country. There
have been 20-some lawsuits filed in different states about different
aspects of the Affordable Care Act. They`re going to use every bit of mud
they can throw to get something to stick. And the president just keeps
shaking it off and keeps moving forward.

SHARPTON: But this is what they`ve taken out of this week, Melissa.
They`re trying to just in any way possible just act as though this is not a
legitimate president. And I think we`re seeing that it`s now become just
naked and raw to the American public. They just don`t want to accept this
president as president.

I think because what they recognize, the effectiveness of what they are
doing is they can, in fact, declare his second term a mistrial in the sense
of moving us to governing by crisis. Crisis to crisis every three, every
four months. And then the president never will have an opportunity to
actually enact a second policy agenda.

So what we want to remember is sort of what were those first -- that
first term if we divide it into those first two years when the president
had a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate. And we look at the policy
activism of those two years. And that president with that speaker of the
House, Nancy Pelosi, had had the most effective, efficient, and important
probably in post World War II history congressional session. That 2010
midterm happens and ever since, we have gone to governing by crisis with
the goal of whether they actually impeach the president or not, effectively
impeaching him by making it impossible for him to do anything more than
simply keep the lights on in Washington.

SHARPTON: And see that`s the point, Congressman. All that we keep
hearing, as Melissa just pointed out about impeachment, blocks us from
getting to the legislation and the policies this president had wanted to
pursue in his second term. Watch this.


REP. STEVE STOCKMAN (R), TEXAS: We want all tools available including
that impeachment.

REP. BLAKE FARENTHOLD (R), TEXAS: If we are to impeach the president
tomorrow, you could possibly get the votes in the House of Representatives
to do it.

SEN. JIM INHOFE (R), OKLAHOMA: People may be starting to use the "I"
word before too long.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: OK. I were meaning impeachments.


REP. KERRY BENTIVOLIO (R), MICHIGAN: I have had lawyers come in. And
these are lawyers, PhD`s in history and I said tell me how I can impeach
the president of the United States.

CRUZ: To successfully impeach a president, you need the votes in the
U.S. Senate and with Harry Reid controlling the Senate you can`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to establish the criteria that would
qualify for proceedings against the president and that`s called


SHARPTON: Now, these are senators and your colleagues in the House of
Representatives, Congressman. With this continual talking about
impeachment, it does in many ways obstruct moving forward on an agenda that
the president wanted to lay out in his second term.

MCDERMOTT: There`s no question about it, Rev. They simply want to
keep the circus going and keep -- it`s like a magician who snaps his
fingers in one place so you won`t see what he`s doing with his other hand.
They are basically trying to keep the president from doing anything on jobs
or on immigration or on climate change or any other issue that the American
people are facing or pensions or anything.

As long as they can keep this impeachment circus going, nobody will
pay any attention. And what is happening right underneath them is that
Obamacare is being put in place.

SHARPTON: Melissa, you know, what makes this even more striking is
that former Senator Jim DeMint used to actually love Obamacare. But it was
back when it was called Romney care. Listen to this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: One thing that the former governor did up
in Massachusetts, senator, is he was able to without raising taxes make
sure that everybody in the commonwealth of Massachusetts wound up with
health insurance.

that I think we should do for the whole country. Probably over 20 states
now are trying to copy what he did. And that`s a good sign that people
think he`s on the right track.


HARRIS-PERRY: So here we are this week ending a crisis of a
government shutdown over the president passing exactly what DeMint said we
should do all over the country. Because Obamacare and Romney care are
basically t same principles and the same kind of policies.

DeMint now helps to encourage the shutdown of the government, 16 days,
billions of dollars, threatens the government in terms of debt limit over
what they believed in. This is all about Obama.

HARRIS-PERRY: And I think where you came to at the end is really the
point. If this were about policy, if this were about a fundamental core
belief that there was a set of policies that would deeply impact and harm
our country, as much as I disagree with this strategy, I might be able to
have some respect for it.

You know, it`s not the set of policies I would have anger about, but I
can imagine in the sort of possibility of governing that something could be
so awful that you would say you know what? We just -- we can`t even move
forward as a country. But that is not what this is. And we have evidence
of that from the close relationship between Romney care and Obamacare. And
the fact that so many of these people now screaming impeachment, screaming
shutdown willing to move towards the precipice of default were supporters
of Romney care.

SHARPTON: Congressman, when you look at the fact that the president
said the ultimate thing, if you want to change laws, he told the GOP, win
elections. Look at this.


OBAMA: You don`t like a particular policy or a particular president,
then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election. Push to
change it, but don`t break it. Don`t break what our predecessors spent
over two centuries building.


SHARPTON: Congressman, does this come down to 2014 next year`s
election after all we went through in the last 16 to 18 days, doesn`t come
down to where will the election go for a new Congress of next year?

MCDERMOTT: It really comes down, Rev., to this. Will the American
people remember how reckless and how uncaring the Republicans really were
in their willingness to run the country into the ground to take away health
care from people because they said that was it. If we would defund
Obamacare, they would be happy. And they let everything else go on. If we
would just do that. So this was all about hurting people. And they were
recklessly willing to trade the whole economy over this kind of reckless
behavior. If the American people forget it in 2014, they do it at their
own risk. They have to change some of these people.

SHARPTON: Congressman McDermott, Melissa Harris-Perry, thank you both
for your time tonight.

And be sure to watch Melissa Harris-Perry weekends at 10:00 a.m.
eastern right here on MSNBC.

Coming up, brand new numbers show just how bad the shutdown was for
the GOP. What`s their answer? More Sarah Palin? Really?

Plus, a "Politics Nation" field trip tonight inside the right wing
media`s fact-free universe. We expose the lies against President Obama.

And friend or foe, I want to know. "Reply Al" is ahead.


SHARPTON: Have you joined the "Politics Nation" conversation on
facebook yet? We hope you will. Today many in our facebook community had
something to say about this image. It says if you fly the confederate flag
instead of the American flag you are not a patriot. One of our fans shared
it with us earlier this week, and it generated a huge response.

Today a lot of you agree with the message. We posted it on our page.
If you want to like and share it too, please head over to facebook and
search "Politics Nation" and like us to join the conversation that keeps
going long after the show ends.


SHARPTON: Senator Ted Cruz and the other tea partiers thought they`d
break President Obama. But instead he broke them. Republicans know it,
and it started a civil war. "Politico" reports a GOP Senator Ted Cruz at a
closed door meeting that, quote, "President Obama gets up every day and
reads the newspaper and thanks God that Ted Cruz is in the United States

Ouch. Republicans are cracking up all over the place. The GOP`s big
money donors are said to be frustrated with the tea party`s losing agenda.
A strategist for the conservative chamber of commerce said they`re going to
elect people who understand the free market and not silliness. And a top
corporate lobbyist said, quote, "I don`t know of anybody in the business
community who takes the side of the Taliban minority. Tough words. But as
usual, the tea party thinks they`re winning.

Today, the head of a top tea party group predicted they take over the


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They still want to control things from the top
down and if they do that, there will absolutely be a split. But my
prediction would be that we take over the Republican party and they go the
way of the witch.


SHARPTON: Joining me now is E.J. Dionne of "the Washington Post."

Thanks for coming on the show.


SHARPTON: E.J., you wrote recently about how GOP moderates are
grappling with the quote, "lunatic fringe," you called it in the party.
Does the GOP fight have implications for the president`s agenda.

DIONNE: Well, I think this opens up some space for the president. I
mean, it`s important to realize that the whole Republican party is more
conservative than it was 20 or 30 years ago. Jeff Shesol, a former speech
writer for President Clinton has a piece in "the New Yorker" pointing out a
lot of policy questions, the distance between these two sides isn`t all
that great. But the tea party shows a kind of paranoid style as well as an
extremist approach to tactics that just blew up in the Republican party`s

And I think the Republicans use the energy of the tea party to take
over the House in 2010 and win a big victory. But now, the tea party`s
popularity is really dropping with the country as a whole. The country is
seeing this really is extreme politics. And so now a lot of Republicans
want to run away as fast as possible. And it`s a lot of the civil war
about worries whether they can hold out in 2014.

SHARPTON: Well, you know, in the past three years, the tea party`s
disapproval rating has shot up, 49 percent. That`s really half of the
American people. Now, has an unfavorable opinion of the tea party.
They`re even less popular than ever before, and they`re fighting key
allies. A right wing talk show host, radio host Mark Levin is calling for
tea partiers to stage a boycott against the GOP`s big business interest.


MARK LEVIN, RIGHT WING TALK SHOW HOST: The business community now is
out to get the tea party candidates. Maybe we should make sure that we
don`t support the businesses that are members of the U.S. chamber of


SHARPTON: I mean, we`re looking, E.J., at the far right now going to
turn off one of the GOP`s biggest supporters? Business. How do they
survive this?

DIONNE: Well, they do have a pretty big pot of money from a certain
number of very wealthy right wing folks. They have some capacity also to
raise money at the grassroots. But when you have the -- one of the
principle elements of the Republican party, the tea party, going after the
other principle element of the Republican coalition other than the
religious conservatives, business groups, you`ve got a party with a huge
problem. And I think this whole willingness to risk going over the cliff
by not raising the debt ceiling, a lot of business folks said wait a
minute. This is something we would never consider. This could really
wreck our companies, wreck our economy.

And so, I also think you`re going to have some people in business
looking the other way away from the Republican party altogether. And say
for the time being this party isn`t safe even if they do want to cut our

SHARPTON: Now, when you say there`s space for Obama, how would that
space that you say is there for the president effect him driving through
his policies in the middle of this fight in the Republican party, can he
drive through the middle some of the things that he really cares about and
Americans care about.

DIONNE: Yes. Well, take immigration reform. At the moment the same
kind of right wing part of the House republican caucus that tied Boehner`s
hands such that he wasn`t willing to just come up with a clean early
solution to this last crisis, those folks are now looked at by the party
very differently.

And I think Republican leaders are going to be much less differential
to them. That a lot of rank and file Republicans are going to say, look,
if we follow your strategy we won`t be here the next time. The moderates
in the party are really their conservatives but they`re more moderate
conservatives. We`re very timid during this fight. I think at the end of
this looking at their numbers in their districts, they`re going to go to
these tea party folks and say we`re not going to let you do this the next
time. And if they do, do that that creates some room for some of the
things that President Obama wants to get through.

SHARPTON: All right. E.J., I`m going to have to leave it there.

E.J. Dionne, thanks for your time tonight. Have a great weekend.

DIONNE: Good to be with you.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, Sarah Palin is some Republicans` answer to the
shutdown failure. We`ll show you how she and some others on the right
haven`t learned a thing.

But first, the man who gave us blah people is back and blaming others
for his owned prejudice. Rick Santorum is due for an I got you. That`s


SHARPTON: Tonight Rick Santorum is back in our spotlight of shame.
He was the GOP runner up last year`s presidential primary. A circus that
gave us this little pearl of wisdom about black people or was it blah


make black people`s lives better by giving them somebody else`s money.


SHARPTON: Yes. He`s the guy who tried to explain away that comment
by claiming he wasn`t talking about black people. It was blah people.
Right. Well, Mr. Santorum is still throwing red meat to his extremist
supporters. This video just surfaced of him talking about same-sex
marriage last month.


SANTORUM: When it came to the issue of marriage and changing the
definition of marriage, there was no change. None. Zero for 30 years.
And then a television show came on the air called "Will & Grace." And look
at it from that point on, because it wasn`t just "Will & Grace." Once that
happened, others and others and others, and then the needle started moving.


SHARPTON: "Will & Grace" is the problem. Santorum is trying to blame
pop culture for the failures of his party`s agenda. They`ve done this
before. Remember Dan Quayle and "Murphy Brown"?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Primetime TV has "Murphy Brown," a character who
supposedly epitomizes today`s intelligent, highly paid, professional woman.
Mocking the importance of fathers by bearing a child alone and calling it
just another lifestyle choice.


SHARPTON: Republicans love to blame TV for their own sinking ratings.
But here`s the truth they can`t face. America is changing. Today a New
Jersey court ruled same-sex marriages can begin on Monday. And senator-
elect Cory Booker will be officiating weddings 12:01 a.m.

So the problem isn`t "Murphy Brown" and it isn`t "Will & Grace." The
problem is Rick Santorum and all the close minded people like him. Did
Santorum think we wouldn`t notice, his ideas won`t cut it in primetime?

Nice try but we`re turning the channel because we got you.


SHARPTON: This shutdown has been a disaster for Republicans. But
don`t worry. Sarah Palin has a plan.


SARAH PALIN, FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: Those who can`t stand strong to
defend our republic, to defend our constitution, heck yes. They`ve got to
be primaried otherwise we`re going down.


SHARPTON: Oh, yes. Nothing says subtle strategy adjustment like
Sarah Palin. Maybe she should head to Virginia where today we`re seeing
more political fallout. In the spring, the GOP candidate for Governor Ken
Cuccinelli was leading by three points. In September with Republican
shutdown fever running high, he fell behind by five points. And now after
the shutdown, he`s a full eight points behind. Something tells me Sarah
Palin is not the solution in Virginia. Just like Ted Cruz saying he`d
shutdown the government again might not be the answer for Republicans in
Congress. Remarkably, they haven`t learned anything from the shutdown or
from last year`s election. Remember that big GOP autopsy.


REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: The report knows that the way we
communicate our principles isn`t resonating wildly enough. Focus groups
described our party as narrow-minded, out of touch, and, quote, "stuffy old


SHARPTON: Yes. Open the tent and to do that, they shutdown the
government, furlough 800,000 workers, and blow $24 billion. It would
almost be funny if it wasn`t so sad.

Joining me now are Dana Milbank and Angela Rye. Thank you for being



SHARPTON: Dana, some Republicans do admit the shutdown was horrible
for the party. But with Sarah Palin getting involved in Tea Partiers ready
for round two, have they learned anything?

MILBANK: Well, here`s the problem, Reverend, is when you say "they"
it`s not at all clear who it is we`re talking about in the Republican Party
now. It`s got, you know, become some sort of sea monster with the various
heads it has. And yes what`s left of the establishment of this party is
very clear that things have to change. But if you look at, you know, Sarah
Palin, you know at Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz is thrilled with this outcome.
Because it was very good for him in his bank roll and his popularity within
the Tea Party. So, the question here is, are the financial interests that
have been bank rolling the Tea Party finally realizing that these people
are not aligned with their interests and are going to push back and launch
primaries against Sarah Palin`s candidates in these Republican primaries.

SHARPTON: Yes. You know, Angela, another sign the shutdown has been
very bad for the Republicans, today was the cook political report is
shifting 14 House seats into the democratic column. But it says point
blank, it`s mostly because of the damage Republicans sustained as a result
of the shutdown. Talk about the politics. How much will this cost the
Republicans in congress, Angela?

RYE: Well, Rev, I think the one challenge that we have is that
voters` memories tend to be short and we`re more than a year out from the
midterm elections. The one positive sign is that in 2006 during midterms,
the Democrats only needed to pick up a small number of seats and ended up
picking up 31 seats. So needing 17 to reclaim the House majority doesn`t
sound that troubling. The only other problem though of course is the 2010
census which was the basis for the very gerrymandered districts that we
have now that lean extremely Republican. So, even with this, there could
very well be consequences for their actions. Sarah Palin talked about
primary folks that have been staples to the Senate and to the House for
years. Folks fight that Cochran who they have now said they need primary
by a Republican state senator in Mississippi.

SHARPTON: Now, Dana, Angela mentioned Sarah Palin. Let me show you
what Sarah Palin said about President Obama a month after last year`s
presidential election. Listen.


PALIN: Barack Obama is a socialist. He believes in socialism in
redistributing wealth, in confiscating hard-earned dollars of our small
businessmen and women.


SHARPTON: And Dana, this is what Sarah Palin said about President
Obama last night.


PALIN: What emboldened our enemies and what empowered competitors was
his promise to fundamentally transform America. The enemy of America`s
economic freedom is this fundamental transformation of America.


SHARPTON: So will this same old talk, this same old stuff from Sarah
Palin even as Republicans lose elections and get hit in the polls, I mean,
maybe it works for the right wing media, but doesn`t this stuff hold the
GOP back, Dana?

MILBANK: Well, first of all, the Republican Party is going to have to
decide which message it`s going with. Now Sarah`s back to the old
socialist theme. But during the shutdown debate and ObamaCare, they said
Obama`s being too friendly to business. So a socialist who is too friendly
to business is going to be a difficult concept for most Americans to wrap
their brains around. The party establishment and the -- certainly the
business community desperately wants something other than Sarah Palin to be
the mouthpiece there.

But it`s hard to be a louder mouthpiece than she is. I think Ted Cruz
has managed to do that, but they`re largely interchangeable in saying the
same thing. So they may be the minority in the party. Maybe it`s only a
quarter of the party who really are these kinds of true believers, but
they`re really loud. And it`s going to be very hard to tamper them down.

SHARPTON: You know, Angela, it`s hard for me to deal with though
whether they`ve learned anything. Because let`s take, for example,
Republicans talk a big game about widening the tent including bringing in
more Latino voters. Just this summer the head of the RNC said the GOP had
to do something on immigration. Quote, "We need comprehensive immigration
reform." But this week one of the leading Republican Tea Partiers,
Congressman Raul Labrador said, there`s no way he`ll work with President
Obama on immigration. Watch.


REP. RAUL LABRADOR (R), IDAHO: Absolutely not. I think it would be
crazy for the House Republican leadership to enter into negotiations with
them on immigration.


SHARPTON: How do you bring in more Latino voters but you become the
ones that openly obstruct moving forward on immigration reform.

RYE: You don`t, Rev. You talked about the GOP autopsy report at the
beginning of the program. And I would like to push the back and just tell
them, the autopsy report didn`t mean anything. It was a talking point for
the summer. We all laughed about it on this network and meanwhile they
continued to push that they wanted to really reach out to people that were
less and underserved, people of color. Perhaps instead of the report, Rev,
they should pick up "The Rejected Stone."

SHARPTON: Bye Al Sharpton. Let`s be specific.


Let me ask you Dana, I mentioned the far right Attorney General in
Virginia, for example. Now, he`s running for governor and he`s one of the
most extreme political candidates in the country. He introduced a
personhood bill. He filed lawsuit against ObamaCare. He defended an anti-
sodomy law. Today we learned he`ll be delivering the weekly Republican
address, the national party`s weekly statement. This is how the GOP is
going to turn things around? By making its radical even more high profile?

MILBANK: Well, in fairness, if he`s going to lose the election in two
weeks he`s only got a couple weeks left to give this address. So, I guess,
he might as well do it now. The party -- look. The Virginia gubernatorial
race as well as New Jersey which is not really a contest this year are
typically seen as bellwethers. And it`s very telling that Cuccinelli is in
such trouble there and it gets, beyond Cuccinelli, it gets to the problem
of the Republican Party generally. If they can`t win Virginia in a
presidential election, it`s going to be very hard for them ever to win the
presidency. And so I think perhaps inadvertently by featuring Cuccinelli
there, they are featuring exactly what the problem for their party now.

SHARPTON: Dana Milbank and Angela Rye, thank you both for your time

MILBANK: Thanks, Reverend.

RYE: Thanks, Rev.

SHARPTON: Have a good weekend.

Ahead, we`re going inside the right wing media`s fact-free universe.
It all leads back to one thing. Attacking this president. That`s next.


SHARPTON: We`ve said many times in this show you can have your own
opinions, but you cannot have your own facts. Even with the GOP facing a
national embarrassment this week, the right wing talkers stayed in their
fact-free universe.


BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: He wants to convince you that if the
economic state of the union gets worse, it`s because of the government
shutdown. Not true. The reason the economy remains stagnant is ObamaCare.


SHARPTON: Actually, it is true. The economy did get worse because of
the shutdown. The shutdown cost $24 billion, money taken right out of our
economy. But how about some straight talk on the health care law.


SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Average Americans, their families were
also feeling the pain thanks to the health care overhaul train wreck. And
six of them, they`re here with us tonight.


SHARPTON: Let`s see how much pain they`re feeling. Salon revealed
their investigation ended that segment today. They talked to the people
supposedly getting gouged by ObamaCare. It turned out none of them had
even visited the insurance exchange. This is why President Obama called on
the American people to tune out the right wing media complex.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: All of us need to stop
focusing on the lobbyists and the bloggers and the talking heads on radio
and the professional activists who profit from conflict and focus on what
the majority of Americans sent us here to do. And that`s grow this


SHARPTON: All the right wing noise comes back to trying to make this
president look bad. But we all know what`s happening in reality.

Joining me now are Michael Eric Dyson and Maria Teresa Kumar. Thank
you both for being here.



SHARPTON: Dr. Dyson, the right wing could find policies to disagree
with, but they just want to make up their own facts, why?

DYSON: Reverend Sharpton, you`re so absolutely right. Because
they`re living in a parallel universe. The real world in which we live,
the world of facts as you`ve indicated, suggests that this government
shutdown hurt the very people that supposedly they want to take care of.


DYSON: Working class people. Though they don`t mention them. Middle
class people. Government workers. Eight hundred thousand some strong.
The reality is poor people were disadvantaged during the shutdown. People
lost, you know, access to health care and on top of that, some people even
lost their lives as a result of some of the extreme measures taken in
observation of the shutdown. So, the reality is ObamaCare was not the
supposed victim of this shutdown. It was the American people. And even
though they said they wanted to get to ObamaCare, that wasn`t even on the
table. So, all they did was get out there and show their right wing base
that they can be rebellious, but they did nothing to further their agenda.

SHARPTON: Maria, I want to get back to that segment on ObamaCare on
FOX. Here`s what the guest small business owners said.


UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: We`ve also cut back on hiring full-time employees
because of the health care cost involved even though we`d love to do that.

HANNITY: You`d like to hire full-time employees.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: We would love too.

HANNITY: But you have to keep them below 30 hours.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: We have to keep them below 30 hours.


SHARPTON: The Salon investigation points out that ObamaCare has no
effect on businesses without 49 employees or less. And Salon said, it
spoke to the husband who said he only has four employees.

KUMAR: Right.

SHARPTON: The author asked why the cutback on his workforce. He
said, I have to deal with increased costs. What costs? And how I asked
him is any of it due to ObamaCare. There was a long pause after which he
said he`d call me back. He never did. This man`s business wouldn`t be
affected by the health care law, but FOX was more than happy to have them
on to complain about it. How big a problem is misinformation, Maria?

KUMAR: Well, it`s a huge misinformation. Because if you start
looking into that article itself, what they found is that people would save
literally thousands of dollars by going into ObamaCare. And by going to
the exchanges and participating in the Affordable Care Act. And
unfortunately this mechanism of misinformation not only misinforms the
American public, but at the same time I take issue with O`Reilly when he`s
saying, you know, that the American people were not affected because of the
shutdown but it was because of the ObamaCare. The American people are not

There is a reason why Congressional numbers are at its lowest five
percent approval rating because the American people could not be fooled.
They recognize where their bread and butter is coming from and who`s
cutting it and who is basically making sure that they can`t get food on the
table. The fact that you can lay off 800,000 federal workers overnight in
one fall swoop. Of course, that`s going to be felt immediately in the
economy, that`s not ObamaCare, that`s the federal government not being able
to function, and people who can`t support a paycheck. That doesn`t make
any sense.

SHARPTON: Dr. Dyson, we know that there has been problems on the
websites and signing up for ObamaCare. But there`s a big difference in
websites messing up and needing to be corrected.

DYSON: Right.

SHARPTON: And in giving out blatant misinformation and twisting facts
to where you just say things that are blatantly untrue.

DYSON: That`s so true. Let me correct myself. I said loss of health
care, I meant a healthy salary. But you`re absolutely right, Reverend
Sharpton. A technical glitch does not mean that there`s a problem with the
program itself. It means that there are some computer problems. As
President Obama himself pointed out, look, when you try to get the new
operating system for Apple and there was some glitches there, you didn`t
say, let`s throw the baby out with the bath water.


DYSON: You said let`s fix the glitches. So, the reality is they
don`t want to confront the fact that what`s wrong here is that ObamaCare,
GOP don`t care. And that`s the reality. So that President Obama has put
forth an argument about the American public and balancing the budget. And
let`s not hold the American people hostage according to our narrow,
parochial, ideological viewpoints. And what we saw here and I think the
American people as Maria said here are not dumb. What they understand is
that this Congress, especially the right wing of it, held us not
accountable but held us hostage while they failed to be accountable

SHARPTON: Sixteen days. You know, Maria, we`ve seen what happens
when someone tries to pop the right wing bubble. They can`t handle the
truth. Take a listen.


O`REILLY: Give me one damn program he said he`d cut.

ALAN COLMES, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: He has cut entitlements.

O`REILLY: Not entitlements. One program.

COLMES: What do you want to yell for?

O`REILLY: Because you`re lying.

COLMES: I`m not lying.

O`REILLY: You are lying.

HANNITY: You`re getting special perks and special things for
yourself. So cut the crap and stop lying to the audience.

REP. BILL PASCRELL (D), NEW JERSEY: You stop the crap.

HANNITY: Stop lying to the audience.

PASCRELL: You don`t know what you`re talking about.

O`REILLY: The problem now is that you have a law that`s been passed
that`s legitimately passed and upheld by the Supreme Court that`s falling


O`REILLY: It`s falling apart.

ROSEN: That`s not clear, Bill, that`s not clear.

O`REILLY: It`s clear to me Rosen. And if you use hanging around for
the next segment, I`ll prove it to you.


SHARPTON: I mean, they just shut you down, scream all kind of things.
You try to say anything possible about the president. I mean, again, they
will not deal with facts.

KUMAR: Well, just because you scream loudest doesn`t mean you`re
right. Right, Reverend. And I think what the American people are starting
to realize, the reason that there was such technical glitches the very
first day of the exchange because of the 15 million Americans desperately
wanting access to health care basically went into a system that wasn`t
expecting such high traffic. But it doesn`t translate into what a large
demand there is for health care. And how can we actually be productive
when it comes to -- and provide people with the information that they need.

So they can make their own decision. But this idea of making, they
want ObamaCare to fail so badly that they actually prefer their audience
not to take advantage of a system that many of them desperately need
instead of actually giving them the freedom and actually giving them the
choice which is what, you know, the rhetoric which we hear from that side
of the aisle, the choice and the freedom to make their own decision.

SHARPTON: Dr. Dyson, I`ve got to go, but will the American people
remember these 16 days of hostage taking as you say?

DYSON: Absolutely they will. They will remember that the president
stood firm. He stood on behalf of the American people. He made sure that
their interests were put front and center and he said, I refuse to
negotiate. We know that this man is inclined to be bipartisan and to
negotiate more than most others.


DYSON: But he held firm at the line there because he understood
what`s at stake here is not his reputation but the fate of the American

SHARPTON: Michael Eric Dyson and Maria Teresa Kumar, thank you both
for your time.

DYSON: Thank you.

KUMAR: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, Ted Cruz coming to a punch line near you. He
got the Stephen Colbert treatment last night. You`ll want to see this


SHARPTON: There`s an old saying history repeats itself first as
tragedy second as farce. You never want to be a punch line, but the
Republican Party is giving comedians all kinds of material. First it was
this hilarious "SNL" music video mocking John Boehner and Michele Bachmann
for the shutdown. And now it`s Stephen Colbert`s turn. Here he is at the
Al Smith dinner last night.


STEPHEN COLBERT, COMEDIAN: As a journalist Theodore White put it, the
Al Smith dinner is a ritual of the American politics, so for those keeping
tracks, the American political rituals are this dinner and the Republicans
sacrificing 2014 to Ted Cruz`s ego.




SHARPTON: It`s time for Reply Al. Remember, friend or foe I want to

Don writes, "With the shutdown, will there be any winners in the long

Well, the American people lost 800,000 federal workers furloughed.
Though they will get their money back, we will never get in our heads and
shouldn`t get in our heads a comfort level we`re doing government by
crisis. In the long run, we all win if we say this is enough. We will not
tolerate this kind of circus again. If we don`t, if we forget, then we all

Finally tonight, the far right tried to push to delegitimatize the
president. They`ve tried to tamp down, tried to make him the other. But
through it all, he stays focused on the American people. In my new book
"The Rejected Stone," I talked about digging deep to find strength. I`m
excited about my new book. If you`d like to read an excerpt, please go
over to our Facebook page. and find details
about my next book signing.

I`ll be in the great city of Chicago on Monday at Books a Million at
12 noon. That`s at 144 South Clark Street in Chicago. I`ll be at the
Dusable Museum 7:30 that night in Chicago. Hope to see you all there.
Remember, dig deep. You`ll find the real strength to overcome society
barriers and personal barriers. The book is two dimensional. I talk about
my personal rejections and my society rejections. "The Rejected Stone."

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


Transcription Copyright 2013 ASC LLC ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. No license is
granted to the user of this material other than for research. User may not
reproduce or redistribute the material except for user`s personal or
internal use and, in such case, only one copy may be printed, nor shall
user use any material for commercial purposes or in any fashion that may
infringe upon MSNBC and ASC LLC`s copyright or other proprietary rights or
interests in the material. This is not a legal transcript for purposes of