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The Ed Show for Friday, November 8th, 2013

Read the transcript to the Friday show

November 8, 2013
Guest: Dr. Frederick Haynes, Dr. Otis Moss, John Fugelsang, James
Peterson, Karen Finney, Virg Bernero


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that`s probably one of the strongest reports
of this year.

Sometimes, listening to folks on TV.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s a 204,000 jobs added is -- sounds good,
doesn`t it? But I would take it with a grain of salt.

OBAMA: The deficits are going down. They`re not going up.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it as great as we need to have a really roaring
recovery. No, but it`s certainly better than where we were last month. So
it`s not bad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would`ve had more jobs in October were it not
for the shutdown and brinksmanship (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Part of the problem, ObamaCare continuing to hang
over our economy like a wet blanket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By bringing down the cost to healthcare, that
doesn`t just help our economy. It helps bring our deficit down.

OBAMA: There`s no question that the shutdown harmed our jobs market.
With the use of our economy, every time they are just about to take off,
suddenly, somebody taps the breaks. Somebody taps the breaks and says,
"Not so fast."


MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC HOST: Always glad to have that two 2Pac
when you need them. Haters going to hate. But President Obama and workers
across the country have something to celebrate. Despite all the Republican
resistance on a 16 day government shutdown, we`re still adding jobs.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just found out the US economy added 204, 000
jobs last month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that`s a pretty good number. Obviously,
you don`t like unemployment rate going up but that`s also so much a
function of how whether people like dropping out of the job market or going

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most exciting to us in this data, were that August
and September revised up. We`re now, it looks like we`re creating much
200,000 jobs a month and so going into the shutdown on the economy within a
stronger place than people thought.


DYSON: Usually, this is when we would John Boehner and his buddies
step up to the mic and twist the positive jobs report. But of course, they
are not in session, do these guys ever work?

The Right Wing`s smear machine is picking up the slack with a full
force attack on the president and ObamaCare.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Obama`s approval rating falling on the
ObamaCare disaster.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I fault not only the President but I fault the
people around the President for allowing him to mislead the American people
for so long.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The administration is not anyone else`s, this is
the Obama Administration.


DYSON: My goodness gracious, what the conservative crowd seems to
forget is Republican House Speaker John Boehner`s non action started the
government shutdown on the first place.

The White House released hard numbers about the price we paid for the
shutdown ahead of today`s job reports. The shutdown led to more than 6
million days of lost work and cost tax payers $2 billion in back pay for
government workers. Those numbers seems small on the context of the $16
trillion economy but my friends, they do add up to less effective
government service and at a higher cost.

The report didn`t even calculate the amount it takes for actually
shutting the government down and reopening it, but it described it as
significant even after all of this. A second shutdown is looming. Another
shutdown will happen unless Congress can pass a budget or provide more
stuff get financing for the government.

A bipartisan house in senate negotiating committee is working behind
closed doors on a budget agreement. But expectations for any kind of major
deal are extremely low. It`s no surprise that expectations are dwindling
after the kind of stunts and fake filibuster, Senator Ted Cruz and his Tea
Party conservative cronies were pulling last month.

It`s not out of the realm of possibility that Ted Cruz will do
something like that again. Still, President Obama remains focused on
moving ahead and making more improvements for the U.S. economy. Jobs
topped his agenda today.

He spoke to a crowd in New Orleans just a short time ago.


OBAMA: Our businesses are resilient. We`ve got great workers and so
as a consequence, we added about 200, 000 new jobs last month but there`s
no question that the shutdown harmed our jobs market.

The unemployment rate still ticked up. And we don`t yet know all the
data for this final quarter of the year but it could be down because of
what happened in Washington. That makes no sense.

These self inflicted wounds don`t have to happen. They should not
happen again. We should not be injuring ourselves every few months. We
should be investing in ourselves. We should be building, not tearing
things down.

Rather than re fighting the same old battles again and again and
again, we should be fighting to make sure everybody who works hard in
America and hard right here in New Orleans that they have a chance to get
ahead. That`s what we should be focused on.


DYSON: My fellow Americans, it`s clear. The conservative top tank is
running low on fuel and is blaming the wrong guy.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think tonight`s
question. Do conservatives care more about fixing the economy or
destroying President Obama? Text A for fixing the economy, text B for
destroying President Obama to 67622 or go to our blog at
I`ll bring you the results later in the show.

Joining me now is Dr. Frederick Haynes III, Senior Pastor at
Friendship West Baptist Church in Dallas Texas and Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III,
Senior Pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. Gentleman,
welcome back.


Dr. Dyson.

DYSON: Yeah, absolutely. Dr. Haynes, let me begin with you. Why
isn`t President Obama getting any credit for the things he`s doing right?
I mean, they beat up on this man as if he`s done the worst thing since the,
you know, the invention of the wrong machine that we can hit him. What`s
going on here? Why can`t he get any credit?

HAYNES: Well, the bottom line is that the president is making
progress in spite of, and so, as a consequence, you have 204,000 jobs
created in spite of -- and with that being the case. Please understand,
there was an underlying issue of a race that often times is not addressed.
This black man in the White House and then on the other hand, you also have
a determination on the right to do everything wrong to ensure that the
President does not have success. After all, this is the same right wing
that before the last election, you had some of their leaders saying that
their number one priority was to ensure that the President does not get a
second term.

You had -- who is it? Rush Limbaugh say when he was first elected
that he wanted him to fail. And so, that has been the agenda of those on
the right. Instead of creating jobs, they`ve been determined to sabotage
his job instead of looking out for it, everyday people in America. They`ve
been determined to ensure everyday that the President catches nothing but
hail. Again, there`s an under current (ph)of a race on top of that, it`s
the politricks (ph) of the right that is leading our country in many
instances wrong.

DYSON: Right. Well, in light of that, Dr. Moss, we know that in many
senses, the falls, the faults and flaws of the ObamaCare in terms of it`s
implementation are widespread the technical matters. But the substance of
it seems to be pretty much in place. But how important was the speech
today to pivot attention away from the negativity about ObamaCare?

MOSS: Well, I think it was pivotal. It was not about the websites
that are working or not working. In our congregation, we have wonderful
woman. I`ll call her Mary (ph). She was working poor. She was homeless
unbeknownst to us. We found out that she was homeless and we of course
wanted to support her. But here is a woman whose ministry was servicing
those with the most impoverished in Chicago. She was not a taker. She was
not a scammer. She was not ethically dubious in anyway shape or form. She
was deeply committed in the words of the gospel. What we do to the least
of this, we do also unto God. And what is beautiful about the affordable
health care act is it lifts up one of the oldest, most ancient ideas, the
idea that we are to lift up those who are hurting.

And so, what we are seeing is that no longer are the poor invisible.
And what I am so proud of in reference to the President is that the
President was able to stand before the nation, admit that we have
challenges, admit that there have been mistakes that have been made. I
want a leader that is willing to admit I`ve made a few mistakes because I
teach my own children that you are better when you admit your mistakes and
the words of the great coach Phil Jackson, admit your mistakes, make an
adjustment and we continue with the fight. We`ve admitted some mistakes
but we make an adjustment and we continue with the fight. No longer will
the poor be invisible and the words of 2pac as you quoted earlier, we`re
going to keep our heads up.

DYSON: Keep your head up. No doubt about that. And like he said,
when it -- it ain`t funny when it rains it pours, they got money for wars,
can`t feed the poor. Speaking about the poor Dr. Haynes that Dr. Moss
already spoke about, the President is supporting a bill that would raise
the minimum wage over $10 an hour, how likely do you think it is that given
all the division in the Congress that he`s going to be successful?

HAYNES: Well, unfortunately, you have an obstructionist Congress that
is determined to declare a war on the poor as well as fight the President
of the United States. And so, the likelihood of the Congress coming along
and recognizing that goes at the bottom need to have the floor raised as
opposed to ensuring that those who are in the penthouse are doing even
better with tax cuts. I don`t see that happening. But again, look at what
took place with the jobs reports. You`re talking about 204,000 jobs
created in spite of a government shut down, in spite of a Congress that is
basically do nothing, in spite of a Congress that says we`re not going to
pass the President`s jobs bill, we`re not going to fix a crumbling
infrastructure. And so, this has happened in spite of and so as a man of
faith. I believe that in spite of the Goliath of a Congress saying, we`re
not going to do anything for you, David still has some smooth stones and
hopefully, will raise the floors so that even those at the bottom can have
an opportunity to move forward.

So looking at Congress? No. Looking up to God? Yes.

DYSON: All right, well .

MOSS: What we would be able to do is to make sure that we are
injecting compassion, love and justice into the civic discourse. Because
when love and justice get married together, something powerful happens.
Love without justice is into mentality. Justice without love can become
naked brutality. But when you may go down the aisle and marry each other,
they produce twins, one by the name of transformation and the other by
liberation and so that becomes important that we begin .

DYSON: Sure. Sure.

MOSS: . to stick with compassion.

DYSON: No. No. That`s extremely important. So what do you say the
conservative critics would say raising the minimum wage could actually
slash the total of low income jobs and that these twins will be viscously

MOSS: I would say to those that are conservatives that we must make
sure that we are speaking to all Americans and no longer will the poor be
invisible. It does not hurt jobs every time we raise a minimum wage. We
now create a class of people who are not only able to purchase, but able to
make their way out of poverty.

It`s interesting that the group that wants to speak about Jesus does
not want to preach what Jesus preach. And so I would encourage our
conservative brothers to go back to the Gospel and begin to look and see
who Christ focused on and that was the poor. And whether you are atheist
or whether you are an Anglican, I think that you should have compassion,
that you should operate with love and that we should interject that into
American discourse.

DYSON: Yes, Dr. Haynes, in light of what Dr. Moss has indicated then,
how do we talk about a nation that claims itself to be at least allegedly
Christian and yet displays such heartless disregard for the poor?
Veteran`s Day is coming up, we know there are many veteran`s out here who
are starving, who are homeless, who are without, you know, serious economic
or social support, what do we say to a nation that has turned its back on
so many of the homeless and those who are poor and those who are certainly
without resource?

HAYNES: Well, it`s a nation needs to repent. To continue what Dr.
Moss was saying, if you look at the Gospels, Jesus will judge nations by
how they treat the least of these -- his brothers and sisters. So if you
were saying -- I hear Jesus saying, "I was hungry and you cut food stamp
programs. I was thirsty for knowledge and you cut opportunities for a head
start and pale (ph) grants in a real sense." In as much as you do it to
the least of these, my brothers and sisters. He says, "You`re doing it all
so unto me."

And so we are editing out certain sections of scripture when we say
that we are not going to be a blessing to those who are poor. We`re not
concerned about justice. We`re not concerned about the least of these.
We`re not expressing our love for those who find themselves oftentimes left
behind and with that being the case, that is anti-Christ, that is anti
Christian and so this nation if anything that needs to repent, it needs to
change its mind because how can you say you love God whom you`ve never seen
but you mistreat your brothers and sisters who you see every single day.

And so regardless of your faith, background, every faith background
recognizes a responsibility for those who are left behind. And so this
nation is really running antithetical to what it claims to believe,
"Christina Nation", it`s really anti-Christ.

DYSON: All right, the Rev. Dr. Frederick Haynes III and the Rev. Dr.
Ottis Moss III, thank you so much for joining us tonight. If you all think
it`s a hot Friday you better join them on Sunday morning. Thank you
gentlemen and so much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. God Bless.

DYSON: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of
the screen and share your thoughts on Twitter at EdShow and on Facebook. I
really want to know what you think.

Coming up, the field of extremes. Sarah Palin builds a bridge to
Iowa. Plus, we haven`t seen the last of Kenny. Why Tea Party crazies
can`t get enough of the Cucc (ph).


DYSON: Time now for the Trenders. The Ed Show social media nation
has decided and we are reporting. Here are today`s top Trenders voted on
by you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey did you just win election?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you just win election?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three Trender, dropped call.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was writing (inaudible), congratulations you
son of a gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You talking to me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Vice President sorry you have the wrong Martin
Wallace (ph).


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Biden game of phone tag continues.

Congratulations. My name is Joe Biden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you? 867-5309, that`s it.

BIDEN: Anything I can do to help you from the White House in terms of
your need in Boston, Holler Man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any way that fault is. Damn you Tommyy two tone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two Trender, Kending (ph) spirit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For one I`m tired of the media picking our
candidate for us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to elect people, you don`t have to lobby,
your a launch and leave missiles politically speaking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conservatives are calling for Cucc (ph) to run for

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We said this race was a referendum on ObamaCare.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Loser, you`re a loser.

DYSON: Homophobic, anti choice, climate science denying birth
friendly, victory hating, Ken Cuccinelli.

ED SCHULTZ: Cuccinelli`s crowd as a bunch of typical Tea Party crazies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top Trender, Barracuda is back.

are good people.

Fried butter on the stick, fried cheese cake on stick.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sarah Palin sets her sight on the Hawkeye State.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wants to get involved once again in this
midterm races.

PALIN: Well, Ted Cruz and more those good guys need some
reinforcements in the midterm election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike Lee I am your father.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And potentially some of these big senate campaigns
that we we`re seeing.

PALIN: Someday I`m actually going to tell America what I really


DYSON: I`m joined now by liberal commentator and comedian John


DYSON: How you doing there my man?

FUGELSANG: Always a pleasure.

DYSON: So, Sarah Palin -- it`s always great to have you. Sarah
Palin is speaking of the Iowa faith and freedom conference this weekend in
Des Moines, what she hoping to accomplish there? Is this a warm up so to
speak for what`s coming next for her?

FUGELSANG: Well, there will be cameras there doctor. So, I think
you`re right about that, she`s also flagging a new book, she`s getting on
the war on Christmas bandwagon about five years after Bill O`Reilly made it
trendy and that`s going to work. I mean Sarah Palin`s job right now is to
keep folks like you and me talking about Sarah Palin. It`s easy to scoff
at her and say, "Oh, she`s irrelevant, she can see oblivion from her
house." And I get those arguments, I think Sarah Palin sort of like she
does for the GOP what Jar Jar Binks did for Star Wars Episode 1.

She distracts the easily amused from a total lack of narrative. But
in this case, it`s more about her just keeping herself in the spotlight and
the fact is and you know this, Dr., no major candidate will ever criticize
her on the GOP side. No politician outside of Dick Cheney has ever
criticized her once because for all the laughable aspects of her, she`s
still a king maker and everybody wants her endorsement.

DYSON: Well, it seems after Ronald Reagan, she is the most Teflon
like of Republican in a long while. But in the band of Republican
ideology, she`s playing second fiddle Utah Senator Mike Lee at the
conference this year. Do you think she still has the juice this year of
the same influence in the GOP that she had even a couple of years ago?

FUGELSANG: Oh good Lord, no. I do think she`ll be the first ever
major party ticket candidate who one day host a cosmetics infomercial. You
know it`s going to happen in the next 10 years, she`ll be marveling over
this lip liner, ladies.

But in the meantime, her job is to keep herself in the media eye.
She`s very good at doing that and she`s now going to go out and talk about
the war on Christmas and make that her new pet issue with the new book that
somebody else wrote. And that should be pretty effective. Telling people
who the religious majority that they`re an abused minority will never make
you go broke.

DYSON: Yes, no doubt about that. Well, but she`s been side stepping
questions about another run for office. Do you think she`s testing the
waters on Iowa right now kind of dipping her toe in figuring out if it`s
going to work, if it`s going to be successful on that?

FUGELSANG: Absolutely, and she should have done it last year. She
wouldn`t have won but she would`ve, you know, hit the snooze alarm on our
career and kept it going a bit more. As it is now, she`s a hero to
gullible conservatives, smart liberals and all comedians. So I hope she
runs. I think we`re finally ready for a second President who thinks Rwanda
was JJ`s sister on Good Times. That`s a good thing.

DYSON: Don`t doubt that. Apologies to Thelma. Look, Palin`s not the
only Republican that`s passed through Iowa lately. Rick Perry is there,
Ted Cruz stopped by to hunt pheasant with Congressman Steve King last

You know, are Republicans really already jacking for position in 2016?

FUGELSANG: Well, absolutely, this is Tea Party Idol and you`re going
to Iowa dawg. You`re going to see more and more of this. These guys have
to start fund raising early, you know the obscene amounts of money these
men and women will have to raise to run for office. So we`re going to be
seeing a lot of it and keep in mind it`s going to be a very entertaining
2016 field. It`s not going to be like the clown card 2012 was for the GOP.
You`ll see what passes for heavy intellectual hitters in that campaign,
Mike Lee, you`ll see Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, Rand
Paul is going to be like the anti Avengers in a bizarro universe, everyone
evil fighting each other.

So I think it`s going to be a lot of fun to watch. It`ll be mana (ph)
for comics and I would love to see Sarah Palin use that primary process as
an excuse to keep her career going a little while longer.

DYSON: Well, if we draw back a bit and look at the broader field of
Republicans, Chris Christie with his recent reelection in New Jersey, all
goes well for people who believe -- look, we need a sensible Republican
who`s not on the extremes, who`s able to run a national campaign. Do you
think he has a chance here to really seize leadership and be the front
runner for 2016 for the Republicans?

FUGELSANG: He would if it weren`t for the Republicans themselves. I
think that Chris Christie is perceived as a moderate and a lot of the media
like to call him a moderate. Let`s point out, this is a moderate who
thinks that row versus wage should be repealed and women who terminate
pregnancies should go to jail. That`s what this moderate is fighting for.
This is a moderate who`s finally stood up against the bigots having this
gay reparative therapy going on in the state. And after months and months,
finally he said he thought it was wrong and was held as a moderate for
sticking up for the gays. But this guy still thinks those gay tax paying
citizens don`t have the right to marry who they love.

So I don`t know where are all this moderate talk comes from, maybe
compared to Ted Cruz`s puppy as a moderate. But according to the
dictionary, he ain`t.

DYSON: Well, but given you analysis there then, what hope does anyone
have who`s like not on the far right wing who`s a Republican and wants to
hold his head up high and say, "Look, we believe in science, we have our
religious beliefs here but we`re common sensical kind of human beings."
Where is the hope for the Republican Party in the next, I don`t know,
couple of years to find a candidate who can run, who can win over the right
wing and who can actually win?

FUGELSANG: Well, I ask myself this question all the time. I think
Governor Huckabee was a guy who could`ve done quite well last year if he
had decided to run. I think Chris Christie could do it. He is by far the
best public speaker of all these candidates. And he`s a much better public
speaker than Mrs. Clinton to his credit. Very charismatic, he`s likable,
people who hate him like him.

Those New Jersey voters disagree with him on the issues and they still
picked him. However, the fact that he has shown insufficient disgust for
Muslims, the fact that he shown some movement on gun control that he hasn`t
been completely offended by medical marijuana. The fact that he has tilted
towards moderacy a little bit is not going to be rewarded by the Tea Party
basin. At this point, they`re the ones who are calling the shots in the
primary season. You will see Chris Christie come out in favor of marriage
equality before the 2016 election, but not before the primaries.

DYSON: My friend, you`re a funny man but your insight is really
serious. John Fugelsand, thank you so much for joining us today.

FUGELSANG: Hey, Merry Warren (ph) Christmas to you, Doc.

DYSON: All right. Still ahead. President Obama`s relationship with
the Black community. Let`s just say, it`s complicated. Plus the baby face
birther (ph) lands in tonight`s Pretenders.

But next, I`m taking your questions. Ask MED Live is just ahead.
Stay tuned.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

We love hearing from our viewers. Tonight in Ask Ed live, our
question is from Allen Vollbrecht. What`s wrong with this world when you
can`t go looking for help without getting shot?

And of course, Mr. Vollbrecht is referring most recently to the sad,
tragic case in the Detroit, Michigan, really outside of the Detroit in
Dearborn Heights where a young black woman, Renisha McBride who got caught
in an automobile accident, was involved in an automobile accident, was a
bit disoriented, went to a home trying to seek help and predictably, sadly,
and tragically so, shot in the back of her head, clearly not a threat, to
whoever was behind those doors.

This is yet another index that African-American identity seems to be a
scourge to so many in this country, that the anatomy of Black identity
seems to post a threat to those who feel that somehow, all these jumble of
stereotypes about the threat of Black existence somehow comes to bare upon
interactions between Black people who are victims of this heinous kind of
crime and others, whatever their color who feel that somehow this person is
a threat.

We know what happened in North Carolina, a young man, again in an
accident, seeking help and being murdered. This is akin to what some have
suggested to Trayvon Martin, that is to say that you are being profiled,
African-American people being retailed profiled in stores, being racially
profiled by the police, and of course, the vicious jumble of racial
stereotypes that prevail when African- American people who are ordinary
citizens are simply seeking to exercise their right to exist and seeking
help not as vicious but vulnerable people.

My brothers and sisters, this is why those stereotypes must be
repudiated, this is why racial profiling must be rejected. This is why the
crest and crude reductionistic approach to seeing the other person.

A stereotype after all is a lazy person`s way of dealing with the
other must be cast aside. Only when we do this, will we not perceive an
unarmed, young black woman who is simply seeking to get help after an
accident as a threat to somebody`s existence. When we do that, then the
true beauty of America will be revealed and we will get closer to the
belief that all human beings have trust and civility, and have the
possibility of being acknowledged as full-fledged citizens of this great
nation of ours. Stick around. The rapid response panel is next.

SEEMA MODY: I`m Seema Mody with your CNBC Market Wrap. The DOW
hitting a record high scoring 167 points. The S&P 500 climbing 23, and the
NASDAQ adding 61.

The jobs support topping expectations as employers added 204,000 jobs
on October, bu the unemployment rate ticks up to 7.3 percent in September.

Consumer sentiment though fell unexpectedly to a near two year low in
November following the government shutdown. Tweeter stock down 7 percent
and of second day of training is now just under $42 a share.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. President Obama once said, "I am
not the President of black America. I am the President of all America."
His relationship with the black community has always been a complicated
one. And revelations from Mark Halperin and John Heilemann latest book
about the 2012 election probably won`t help.

A passage in Double Down, the duos follow up to their 2008 campaign
book game change puts it simply. Obama have little patience for the
professional left, and vanishingly close to zero from one of his senior
African-American aides, Michael Strautmanis referred to as professional
blacks as opposed to black professionals.

A part from Georgia Congressman John Lewis and Jim Clyburn of South
Carolina. Obama had nearly as much contempt for the CBC as he did for Tea
Party caucus.

New York Charlie Rangel, he derided as a hack. Jesse Jackson Sr. was
effectively banned from the White House. Obama remembered all too well a
conservation with Cornel West in 2009 and which the professor used the
precious time to complain about his seating at the inauguration.

Joining me now is our rapid response panel, MSNBC contributor James
Peterson, Director of Africana Studies and the Associate Professor of
English at Lehigh University and Karen Finney the host of disrupt.

Professor Peterson, what`s going on here, distinction between
professional blacks and black professionals and we should make that clear,
black professionals lawyers, doctors, and other kind of people that`s not
who is mad at. He`s mad at people who claim as a profession to talk about
in defying blackness. Is that a fair distinction to be made and what do
you think the President was getting at here if this is true?

ENGLISH, LEHIGH UNIVERSITY: I think it`s an interesting distinction to be
made, you know, my interpretation of it is, that the President it means by
professional blacks is as those folk who are, I think exploding ideas about
race and about blackness for personal gain rather than communal progress,
you know, the critique could be applied to some of the folk who`s been
critiquing the President but certainly not to all of them and I think we
have to also caution the President here.

I mean I don`t know how substance of these leagues I mean, John and
Mark are great journalist but still to me a little bit of hearsay and all
of this. So I would love to here if and when the President will respond to
it but I think the President has to understand there are maybe some
progressive blacks and some blacks that have voted for him that have that
kind of feeling about him in a sense that there`s been so much symbolism
around his Presidency that in many ways, people are still looking for some
of the substance in the policies that adjust the specific needs of the
black community.

And so I think there`s enough for everyone to learn out of this kind
of gossip, hearsay stuff and I think, I hope that the President sort of --
can reflect on them the same ways that any of his critiques will.

DYSON: Karen Finney, you know, surprises are some of those names and
he parallels, the CBC, the Congressional black caucus is on Tea Party maybe
that`s a bit blown up here, maybe it`s a bit exaggerated.

Jim Clyburn and John Lewis exempted from that but Charlie Rangel who`s
been one of the longest serving Congressman ever within the African-
American ranks and Emanuel Cleaver and (inaudible) and the likes.

So, in other words, is there a bit of nay saying going on here is this
a bit of exaggeration or is this frustration of the President, not feeling
the entire black Congressional -- Congressional black caucus is supporting

KAREN FINNEY,HOST OF DISRUPT: Well, I mean as, you know, as James
have alluded to, I mean this is the -- the President had a complicated
relationship with the African-American community throughout well, right,
and that`s kind of -- I feel like that`s kind of family conservation and
I`m sorry to see that conversation spilled out onto the pages of a book
that is -- the reason I don`t like this kinds of books as that you have to
remember that there are lots of blind clip quotes, and lots of people who
are off the records in some places, and on the record and other places.

And so it makes it very hard to really -- I say, it`s like 50 percent
diction, 50 percent potential fact because we don`t know what the
origination of this conversation was.

I do, you know, I certainly remember that period in time and
(inaudible) person was uncomfortable with, you know, this idea of
challenging the Presidents blackness because as a mixed race person myself,
I don`t think that we should be judging each other that way but again I
feel like that`s kind of family conversations that we ought to be having
and I do think there`s been some tension with the CBC and between the CBC
and the White House, but also remember that was a period of time when the
President was still really trying to, you know, take Republicans at their
word and work with them and he had since learned his lesson and, you know,
what? You can trust those guys.

DYSON: Yeah. But James Peterson in light of what Karen Finney just
said about family conservations, a lot of people say well the Presidents of
the first one to break that rule. Why are you setting before the nation
talking about black on black business before a white audience that can
easily misinterpret what you say and take it and run and show, Aha he
believes on black pathology as well.

So given what Karen Finney has said, has the President himself
offended that very rule?

PETERSON: I mean when you look at his speech for the celebration on
the march on Washington, the way he characterized the rights and armed and
non-violent resistance of the 60s, when you look at pieces of his speech
and more house speeches that he`s given her own father`s day, it does seem
as if the President does not heed the rule of a family and community
conversation. You know, doc, here`s the -- for me what it boils down to.
You know, there are -- what this President has done with his ascendancy is
that he`s created an opportunity for I think for the Black community to
realize it`s diversity particularly along the political spectrum.

There are a lot of Black folks who voted for this President who are
unhappy with how things have unfolded and that goes from everything, from
education to drawing policy. And so, I think it`s an opportunity for us to
have a conversation. Sadly, and what I hope is that we don`t get caught up
in some of the rumor mill and some of the.

FINNEY: Right.

PETERSON: . name calling and add home and attacks. To me that stuff
-- let`s talk about the policies. Let`s talk about what we want this
President to do in the last portion of his second term. To me those things
are more important than figuring out.

FINNEY: Right.

PETERSON: . who said what in all the name.

DYSON: But let me ask you, Karen. Let me as you this though. On the
other hand, is this is a thin-skinned President who`s incapable of taking
legitimate Black criticism? Let`s put the haters aside. We know who we`re
talking about.

FINNEY: Right.

DYSON: We know who the haters are.

FINNEY: Right.

DYSON: So we`re not even dealing with them but we`re talking about
legitimate disagreement with you expressed publicly, articulated against
your particular beliefs and can we have enough room to do that?

FINNEY: I don`t think -- I think the President has created plenty of
space to do that.

DYSON: Right.

FINNEY: And let me just be clear, when I say it`s a family
conversation, I mean I don`t like to see that in a book that is two thirds

DYSON: Right.

FINNEY: . that I feel like if the President wants to put it out there
like he did in the most glorious way after the Trayvon Martin verdict where
I thought he spoke to every American and put a lot of very real stuff on
the table.

DYSON: Right. Right.

FINNEY: . that`s appropriate. And I think there is space to have
that disagreement and I do think to your point, doc, you got to separate
out the haters from what is legitimate serious criticism and questions.

DYSON: Great. James Peterson, when we talk about the President and
we talk about dealing with blackness and, you know, some of the things he
said can do which have been pretty extraordinary, when the book suggests a
kind of parallel between the extremes, the Black left on the one hand and
not just the Black left -- he was just, you know, mad at the left and more
broadly because he had been broad sided by them -- and on the other hand,
the Tea Party, is this a kind of a moral equivalence that really works or
can we say that the President is just frustrated because he`s getting
attacked, you know, by all sides and as a result it feels the same to him?

PETTERSON: Well, that`s why I -- as I -- again I -- that`s why I, you
know, respect to Mark and John but difficult to trust the validity of that
particular comment. You know, I hate false equivalencies. I hate when
people try to say, "The left does this just the way the right does this."
We can be.

FINNEY: Right.

PETERSON: We can be much more sophisticated than that to suggest that
the Congressional Black Caucus is in any way like the Tea Party. Look at
the history of the CBC. By the way, the CBC.


PETERSON: . paved the way for President Obama in many, many ways but
also, let`s be clear here. Everyone is in the CBC is not a member of the
Black left. There are some progressives within the CBC itself. And so we
just have to be more nuance and complicated about so many things but
there`s no way to equate the Congressional Black Caucus with the Tea Party.
If you look at legislation versus obstruction, it`s crystal clear.

FINNEY: Right. Absolutely.

DYSON: Great. James Peterson and Karen Finney, thank you so very

FINNEY: Thanks.

PETERSON: Thanks, doc.

DYSON: Still ahead, rebuilding Detroit, a critical crossroad for my
home town.


DYSON: In Pretenders tonight, a baby faced Colorado Republican still
isn`t aware President Obama was born in Hawaii. Colorado State senator,
Owen Hill recently visited Kenya on a charity mission. When he got back to
Colorado, Hill told Denver County Republicans what he really wanted to tell
the children of Kenya.


SEN. OWEN HILL, (R) COLORADO: You spend time out there and the little
kids running around barefoot in these kinds of streets. And you ask them
what you want to be, they want to be an astronaut, they want to be a
physicist, a marine biologist. One kid even told me more -- President of
United States. And I held back my snarky comment and said, "Well, you know
what, we already have someone from Kenya as President of United States."


DYSON: I`m so glad Denver county Republicans think Hill`s joke is
hilarious. But here`s what`s really funny, Owen Hill is running for
Colorado Senator Mark Udall`s state senate seat. Owen Hill is just another
French Tea Party Republican out to rile up his base by saying crazy things.
If Owen Hill thinks he`s qualified to be a U.S. senator after making a joke
like that, he can keep on pretending.


DYSON: Look I want everybody to hear me, but let me speak to
progressives here for a minute. Progressives let`s get back to work.
America needs to pay attention and stay vocal. So, here`s a look at the
top three stories ahead next week in Fast Forward.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming in at number three, honoring heroes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United
States of America.

OBAMA: Long after our heroes come home, we stay by their side, and so
we are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We owe our very existence as a nation to veterans,
living, and dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On Monday we salute our veterans.

OBAMA: Their sacrifice will never be forgotten.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fast Forward to number two, ObamaCare check out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The White House still will not say exactly how
many people have enrolled to this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will come Ray (ph). People will most
definitely come.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The White House will release enrollment numbers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will get the full enrollment numbered for all
of October bill next week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve got his number, I got his number.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can`t stop what`s coming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And our number one story to watch, Detroit debt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bankruptcy is a good thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t have a better bad idea than this

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Public safety unions ask for specifics and cuts,
and their benefits, and pensions, but on July the 18th bankruptcy was filed
without getting any specific details from the city.

SCHULTZ: He swindling public workers out of their hard earned

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s the bad idea?

SCHULTZ: He thinks that he can reinvent Detroit by making it a better
place by putting the city through bankruptcy which of course is illegal

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On Wednesday a judge could rule on the city`s

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was Detroit`s bankruptcy planned all along?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t have a plan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you do, you`re on the non-plan, plan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d be happy to listen to any other plan someone
and come up with.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And was emergency manager, Kevyn Orr the pilot
working with the governor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bankruptcy is a tool in our toolbox to get at the
goals that we want to achieve.

SCHULTZ: This bottom line here is an unelected official who begin
selling off public assets and slashing public services.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is why we have judges Devin (ph).


DYSON: But more on Detroit`s bankruptcy status, let`s turn to the
Mayor of Lansing, Michigan Virg Bernero. Mr. Mayor more critiques are
saying that the Emergency Manager, Kevyn Orr planned on bankruptcy from the
very beginning that there was no deliberation or calculation. Give us your
take on that.

VIRG BERNERO, MAYOR, LANSING MICHIGAN: Well, Michael, there has not
been enough deliberation. Certainly, the pensioners have not been treated
fairly. I mean when you look at 16 cents on the dollar, it`s just
positively abysmal and unacceptable. You`re talking about people that have
worked all their lives that have counted on the pension that ought to be
able to count on the pension. It is unfair, it is wrong, it is unjust what
is being offered. And there is no question that they were given an unfair
timeline even to deal wit this.

I don`t believe that the administration has dealt in good faith with
those pensioners. And I`m hoping that the judge will order a period of
time some type of structured mediation so that those workers could be
fairly represented and can be at the table and come up with some thing that
is fair because what is being offered is not fair. It is not right. And
it didn`t have to be this way.

You know, I`m upset that we`re dealing with high finance here. A lot
of the focus has been on Wall Street. And what about Main Street? What
about the people on Main Street who are still dealing with the problems in
the City of Detroit? What`s bankrupt is the quality of life in Detroit and
that has not been dealt with by this emergency manager in eight months.

DYSON: Well, you`re absolutely right. And do you feel -- I find it
ironic or perhaps even tragic that an unelected official is making critical
judgments about the distribution of important resources to vulnerable
populations -- the job of a politician -- a duly elected politician. Isn`t
there something.


DYSON: . antidemocratic about that?

BERNERO: Well, no question. No question, there is, Michael. And the
-- you know, what led us here -- when we -- it`s funny. I ran for governor
and when we ran, Governor Snyder and I both said that fixing Detroit was
going to be among the top, you know, the top priority once we took office.
And yet, it took him three years to get around to it while things festered
and got worse. You know, cities in Michigan have not been supported much
by state government over the years not just by this governor. Our cities
had been allowed to die on the vine. And I have seen in this time with
this governor -- I have not seen a proactive preventative plan.

What I`ve seen is a lot of emergency managers coming in after the
fact, you know, coming in afterwards to make, to slash and burn essentially
but I still don`t see an urban agenda. There is no urban agenda. We have
no plan to build up our cities. We allow the problems to fester and to
grow worse and then we come and in and say -- and then we come in with high
priced folks like Kevin Orr -- high priced Wall Street consultants, turn
around experts who come in and rip off millions of dollars and still on the

On the ground, we don`t have the street lights turned on. That would
have been part.


BERNERO: . you know, as a mayor, I`m a little biased, you know.
Eight years, I was just reelected to a third term in Lansing. But, you
know, you got to take care of people on the ground level. You got to have
public safety. You have to have security in the neighborhoods. And they
haven`t even done that. And if I was governor -- I mean -- and I`m not
running but that is priority one. For all.

DYSON: What about.

BERNERO: . time, they haven`t fixed this -- the conditions on the

DYSON: And what`s your response to Dugan? I mean -- so when you
think about everything that you`ve been talking about, what is some of the
other players besides Kevin Orr that you think in terms of their roles of
what`s going on in Detroit?

BERNERO: Well, Michael, they have a new governor. And, you know, you
are a native of Detroit. And they have a new mayor. And I believe.

DYSON: Right.

BERNERO: . believe any new mayor certainly has an opportunity. He
was elected. It wasn`t -- you know, he won a handed victory and he

DYSON: Right.

BERNERO: . an opportunity to govern. He deserves our best efforts.
I can tell you that Mike Dugan has my support as a fellow mayor. He was
elected -- duly elected and he should be given the reigns of power. He
should be given the support. And if the state is going to be there --
again, what if they take it over? There`s a state take over -- you haven`t
made the people safe, you haven`t secured the neighborhood, you haven`t
turned on the lights. And so, I think that Mike Dugan should be given
every opportunity.

DYSON: Right.

BERNERO: He should be essentially operations director. When he is --
when he becomes mayor officially, when he sworn in, I believe he should
essentially be the operations director for the city.


BERNERO: . and he should be given the support necessary.

DYSON: All right then. Mayor Virg Bernero, thank you so much for
your time tonight.

BERNERO: Great to talk to you, Michael.

DYSON: That`s the Ed Show. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz.
Politics Nation with the Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now.


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