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PoliticsNation, Friday, November 8th, 2013

Read the transcript from the Friday show

November 8, 2013
Guest: David Brock, Randall Hill, LeRoy Butler, Kenneth Johnson, Benjamin
Crump, C.B. King

to you for tuning in. Tonight`s lead, worst socialist ever. Republicans
love to talk about how President Obama is a socialist -- monsters who
doesn`t understand capitalism. That`s funny. In reality, here`s what Wall
Street said about that today.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are finishing very strong. We will be in
record territory for the balance updates. We didn`t see that coming 15
minutes ago.


SHARPTON: That`s right. Yet another wrecked high on Wall Street.
Since President Obama came into office, key stocks have soared more than
7,000 points. They up 90 percent. And today we got another strong jobs
report. 200,000 jobs were created in October. That makes 44 consecutive
months of private sector job growth. A remarkable turnaround from the Bush
recession. And the president did it all with Republicans trying to block
him every step of the way, even shutting down the government.

Today, he went to the port of New Orleans and called out the GOP for
trying to put the brakes on the economy.


Washington tried to shut down the government and default on America`s
obligations for the first time in more than 200 years. And it`s like the
gears of our economy, every time they are just about to take off, suddenly
somebody taps the brakes saying not so fast.


SHARPTON: Republicans keep tapping the brakes and they`re doing their
best to hurt the very people who need help the most. Here`s how the latest
round of cuts to food stamps are affecting people all around the country.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: $11. And it makes a difference.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why take it from those that are really in need
of this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s scary. It is. Having three kids and five
of us in the house, neither one of us with jobs because he just got laid
off. So it`s scary.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the worst time of the year right now
with the holidays coming. You got kids to think about. You got families.
I was a nurse for 35 years. I`ve given everything and now I get nothing


SHARPTON: Real people having a hard time feeding their families right
before the holidays. And the GOP answer is to try and cut $40 billion more
from the food stamp program. And to be against the Democratic plan to
raise the minimum wage.

To put that in perspective, speaker John Boehner`s annual salary is
over $200,000. Compare that to the median salary in America, under
$28,000. The speaker makes that in about a month and a half.

And look at this. Based on next year`s calendar in congress, Speaker
Boehner will make about $250 per hour. But he`s against a plan to raise
the minimum wage to $10.10 per hour? It`s just awful.

Joining me now are Maria Teresa Kumar and Jared Bernstein. Thanks for
coming on the show.



SHARPTON: Jared, how can Republicans justify hurting the economy
while also hurting Americans who need the help the most?

BERNSTEIN: Well, it`s a great question. And I think that the
justification tends to be if we take away food stamps, SNAP, or any other
benefit that`s helping people get by in this tough economy, unemployment
insurance is another area they`ve been going after. We`re going to somehow
give these people the incentive they lack to get out there and work harder.
And it`s incredibly ironic when you consider that the economy while clearly
recovering, clearly getting better is still quite tough from the
perspective of folks saying the bottom half of the income scale.

And what we`ve seen time and time again, we particularly saw this is
the latter 1990s when job market was really tight, is if there are good
well (INAUDIBLE) jobs available to people, they will go into the job market
and they will get them. Food stamps, SNAP, $1.40 per, Rev.

So, don`t tell me that somebody is sit in home and kicking back not
trying to work so that they can stay on these programs. It just doesn`t
make any sense.

SHARPTON: Now, Maria, today we learned about the economic damage, let
me put it that way, that the government shutdown really caused the
government. It turns out it cost the federal government $2 billion in lost
productivity. That`s on top of the $24 billion in lost growth to the

So while they`re talking about deficit and debt and who is trying to
establish the country in the country, look at the damage the GOP shutdown
caused the country in productivity and in actual dollars.

KUMAR: That`s absolutely right. And they are doing exactly what they
set out to do. They want to basically drown government. And the way you
drown government is to make sure it doesn`t -- it`s not working.

Unfortunately, what Jared pointed out is absolutely true. Most people
in food subsidies of any kind are usually just there temporarily. They are
using government assistance until they can back on their feet. Very rarely
do you have a population that is basically -- that is permanently on food
stamps. They use it as a way to basically supplement their income until
they get back on their feet.

And what we seem to forget is that the recreation of the middle class
was a big dedicated government program back in the 1940s when basically
when the GI bill and people coming back in and said, you know what, we have
to make sure we`re giving folks on education and that we give them enough
money so they can buy their first home. And that`s how we created the
middle class.

When the president went in and started talking about the need for
structure for development, it was the America people that we create in this
blue print that the rest of the world now understands. That`s how you
actually to kick start the economy and make sure you have good jobs. Not
just jobs, but good jobs, middle class jobs where they are building the
infrastructure and ensuring that we are reinvesting in our country.

SHARPTON: You know, Jared, the thing that is striking to me is how
the Republicans have stretched the truth. In every which way to attack the
president`s economic policies from saying Obamacare is a job killer to
saying the president is a socialist. Listen to this, Jared.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Obamacare is the number one job killer in

we will have a debt crisis.

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: Since day one of Barack Obama`s
presidency, I have led the fight in Washington against his liberal
socialist policies.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: Liberals have no idea of how capitalism


SHARPTON: I mean, it`s amazing. They can`t just argue different
economic policies or opposition economic proposals. He has to be a
socialist. His plan is job killer. It is all his name calling and gutter

BERNSTEIN: Yes. You know, I was observing this twitter IPO
yesterday, and everyone was very elated. It went off without a hitch. And
they raised billions of dollars of capital and their stock rise shot up 70

I actually spent a fair bit of time looking at and trying to analyze
financial markets. And your introduction is exactly right. If he`s a
socialist, he`s the worst socialist ever because financial markets are, in
fact, the one sector of the economy in many ways has done the best. If you
look at median compensation, it`s been flat. If you look at income at the
very topless scale, if you look at corporate profitability, that stuff is
off the charts.

And I ask you and I thought of this looking at the graph you showed
earlier of the jobs. You know, e actually been doing OK. Maybe a little
better than OK given the kinds of head winds, dysfunctional policy that
this Congress has been throwing at the economy. Imagine how we could
actually be doing if they were good economic policy.

SHARPTON: But, if you look at that graph -- hold it there a minute.
If you look at that graph and see where we were and you see what he`s been
able to do against the head wind of the worst kind of obstructionism that
I`ve seen in my life time. And when you look at the fact, Maria, that some
of the people that helped Bush when you look at the Bush side of the graph
are the ones that are giving the worst problems to Obama. So you`re not
even dealing with a total new cast of characters. Some of these guys in
the Congress and some of them in the Senate. What it`s saying is they are
guys that were cosigning with Bush did.

KUMAR: That`s actually right. And work here -- I mean, the fact that
we have an economic recovery is despite the Republican party helping out.
And let`s not forget that the reason we were in this economic turmoil was
because the president inherited from President Bush. So, he is basically
trying to (INAUDIBLE) our economy. And not only that they are doing well,
it`s become steady in growth.

But Jared is absolutely right. It`s not trickling down enough to the
middle class. And it is unfortunately, it`s not trickling enough to the
poor. When people say they`re against health care and it`s job loss, come
on, guys. It hasn`t even kicked in yet. So one, that`s a lie.

Number two, the main reason that we need health care was because the
number one reason people were going into bankruptcy in the first place was
because they were trying to simply get health care coverage.

So, we were actually addressing an incredible need across the country.
And it`s one of t areas where we know it`s going to help fix and continue
our economic engine because now people in the middle class don`t have to
worry about whether they can feed their family or buy prescription pills.

SHARPTON: And when you look, Jared, at the Republicans` economic
agenda, their polls raising the minimum wage. They want to cut $40 billion
from the food stamp program. And they support the sequester cuts to
program that head start and meals on wheels. No wonder they are not doing
very well in opinion polls when their polls with most of the American
people even if they don`t need it, they support as having the values of
saying this is a country that helps its own.

BERNSTEIN: That`s right. And that`s all the things they oppose. If
you actually look at what they`re for, tax cuts for wealthy people and
deregulating financial markets and industries. So really, this is robin
hood in reverse on steroids. It`s basically saying let`s take from the
poor and give to the wealthy. It`s called trickle down supply side

And as Maria was referencing a second ago, not only has it not worked.
It`s not worked every time we`ve tried it. We have theoretical, but we
also have great empirical evidence that this is a failed process. So,
really it is remarkable how well we`ve done even in the face of this

SHARPTON: Maria Teresa Kumar and Jared Bernstein, thank you both for
your time tonight. Have a great weekend.

BERNSTEIN: Thank you.

KUMAR: Thank you, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up, Republicans were overjoyed to find a 60-minute
report that played into their Benghazi obsession. The only problem, it was
based on a lie.

Plus, new surveillance video and the new question in the mysterious
death of Georgia teen Kendrick Johnson. His parents think it`s suspicious.
They join me tonight.

And we`re learning more about the ugly racially charged bully that
allegedly went on an NFL locker room including new disturbing revelations
about the man at the center of the controversy. Two former NFL players are
here live.

And Joe Biden and Whoopi Goldberg take a ride. That`s next.


SHARPTON: It`s been an eventful week for Joe Biden. He called
Boston`s mayor elect Marty Walsh to congratulate him, but wound up dialing
up the wrong Marty Walsh. Then President Obama revealed picking Biden for
vice president was, quote, one of the best decisions he ever made.

And then today this happened. Yes, that`s Joe Biden and Whoopi
Goldberg on Amtrak. They ran into each other on the way home. It was a
total coincidence. But they sat together. We`ve all had that talker next
to us on the train. Oh, to be a fly on the wall on that train car.


SHARPTON: Republicans have spent the last year obsessed with trying
to gin up a scandal from the attack on the U.S. consulate in Libya. The
attack in Benghazi left four Americans dead. No doubt it was a tragedy.
But it wasn`t President Obama`s fault. There was no cover-up and the
American people knew it. The Republicans` bogus scandal had completely
fizzled, so they were overjoyed when "60 minutes" aired a new report late
last month with a supposed eyewitness to the attack.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Morgan Jones scaled the 12-foot high
wall of the cam pound that was still overrun with Al Qaeda fighters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One guy saw me. He just shouted. I couldn`t
believe he had seen me because it was so dark. He started walking towards

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And as he was coming closer?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As I got closer, I just hit him with the butt of
the rifle in the face.


SHARPTON: Dramatic stuff. All of a sudden Republicans had an excuse
to revive their forgotten talking points.

Senator Lindsey Graham and his buddies couldn`t stop talking about "60


SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: After the "60 minutes" show
Sunday, that just falls completely apart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the "60 minutes" report recently that came
out --

GRAHAM: We`ve got "60 minutes" now validating. What did the "60
minutes" show tell us?


SHARPTON: They couldn`t get enough. The only problem, the story was
based on a lie. Turns out the start witness wasn`t actually on the scene
the night of the attack. He never was. And CBS has retracted the story.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In this case we were wrong. We made a mistake.
We no longer had confidence in our source and that we were wrong to put him
on air. And we apologize to our viewers.


SHARPTON: "60 minutes" has apologized. But we`re still waiting for
the apology from Republicans and the right wing media for their smear
campaign against the president.

Joining me now is David Brock, founder of media matters. His new e-
book, "the Benghazi Hoax" debunks the biggest right-wing myths about

David, thanks for being here.


SHARPTON: Republicans used the "60 Minute" report to revive their
Benghazi attacks. What are they saying now that have been discredited?

BROCK: Well, first, FOX aired 13 segments the day after this
discredited "60 minutes" story ran. As you noted in your piece, Senator
Graham has used this as an excuse to block Obama administration appointees
to open up investigation. Senator Cruz has said the state department
should offer $5 million for more information on Benghazi.

And why was "60 Minutes" important to the right? It was validation
for their view that we still don`t know the truth here and this is some
kind of Watergate level scandal when in fact it`s a hoax. Now, the problem
is "60 minutes" aided and abetted the right wing hoax. And in the
interview that Lara Logan did today, she said they did this knowingly.
They knew this source was a liar. They put the liar on the air. And the
big story here, of course, is not that the source was a liar. Because I
imagine people come into "60 minutes" all the time with false reports. We
rely on them to get the truth. They didn`t do that. in this case, they
believe in the story, They wanted to believe it and why? They wanted to
use Benghazi to damage President Obama, to damage secretary Clinton.

SHARPTON: Well, and not only am I looking at that, I`m looking at
those that took this report, went all the way -- let me give you a good
example. The morning after the "60 minutes" piece aired, Senator Lindsey
Graham said until the Senate interviewed Benghazi witnesses, he would block
every single person President Obama nominates to any post. Listen to this.


GRAHAM: Fourteen months later, Steve, the survivors, the people who
survived the attack in Benghazi have not been made available to the U.S.
Congress for oversight pumps. So I`m going to block every appointment in
the Senate until the survivors are being made available to the Congress.


SHARPTON: Now again, that was the morning aft the "60 minutes" piece
aired. But nothing from Senator Lindsey Graham today. And David, how does
he justify blocking every post that the president proposes? I`m talking
about the head of federal reserve, all of these things that have absolutely
nothing to do with Benghazi.

BROCK: Sure. Well, you`re right. They`ve been quiet today. At
least as far as we knew by mid-afternoon, FOX has not covered this story at
all. What`s going to happen here rather than what should happen is they`re
going to have some closed door hearings next week in front of a partisan
committee. This source didn`t work out for them. But they`re going to
keep looking and looking until somebody says what they want them to say.

What should happen here is the Republicans, "60 Minutes" should
apologize to the American people. They should apologize to the Obama
administration. And really, the real thing here is this was -- they
politicized this tragedy. And that real apology is owed to the families of
the brave men and women who actually were there, some of whom died.

SHARPTON: David Brock, I`m going to have to leave it there. Thanks
for your time tonight.

BROCK: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Still ahead, a surprising twist in the NFL`s racially
charged bullying controversy. We`ll hear from two former player players.

Plus, new video raises more questions than answers about the
mysterious death of a high school athlete. We`ll talk to his parents live.

But first a new insult against the attorney general coming from a
birther Republican. Stay with us.


SHARPTON: Republicans love to throw around the word impeachment
especially when it comes to President Obama. Win re-election, he`s got to
be impeached. Pass a historic health care law, impeached. Pardon a
thanksgiving turkey, impeach, impeach.

Republicans have made a mockery of a serious part of our constitution.
But now they`re digging into their impeachment bag of tricks for the
attorney general Eric Holder, saying his removal is one of their top
priorities. Florida GOP congressman Ted Yoho said, quote, "it`s to get him
out of office. Impeachment. It will probably be when we get back in
Washington. It will be before the end of the year."

Impeach the attorney general. For what? For so-called scandals like
fast and furious and Solyndra? Nope. The real reason Republicans oppose
holder is because he`s doing his job.

But this isn`t surprising coming from Congressman Yoho. He once said
he would support a birther bill from fellow tea party Republican Steve


REP. TED YOHO (R), FLORIDA: I called Steve up, I says, when I got
back he says yes we`re doing it. Would you want to get on that. I said
yes. (INAUDIBLE). Then I asked and I`ll ask you guys. Is that really
where we should be spending our time? But I`m going to check into that.


SHARPTON: But don`t worry. He`s just going to check into that.
Congressman Yoho even refused to answer when directly asked if President
Obama was born in America.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: So you accept the fact he was a born

YOHO: I`m not -- no comment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Are you a birther then?

YOHO: I`m not going to comment on it.


SHARPTON: Oh, no, Yoho. Did he think we wouldn`t notice that another
birther has jumped into the impeachment bandwagon? Nice try, but check
into this, we got you.


SHARPTON: Now to that racially charged NFL bullying controversy that
has everyone talking. We`re learning more about what went on inside the
Miami Dolphins locker room. Former rookie player Jonathan Martin`s lawyer
paints an ugly picture of an out of control situation. He reveals new
details of the horrific treatment leading Martin to abruptly leave the
team. He claims Martin endured a malicious physical attack by an unnamed
teammate. And an unidentified player made vicious sexual threats against
his sister. Comments too vulgar to even repeat on the air.

And it comes as we`re learning more about the man at the center of
this controversy. The alleged ring leader Richie Incognito. A newly
obtained police report alleges Incognito molested a female worker at a team
golf outing by touching her with a golf club and emptying a bottle of water
in her face. No charges were filed. And while many dolphins are coming to
his defense, at least one former teammate of Incognito`s is calling him,
quote, "locker room cancer today."


wrong with him or what it is. I was always curious why a guy like that
should be on a football program.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: So is this activity that you`re hearing about
surprise you?

CLEELAND: No, not at all. Not at all. And you can see it just keeps
getting worse the longer this drags out.


SHARPTON: Late today we learned Martin will meet with NFL special
investigator late next week. It`s a story of a lot of twists and turns.
But we`re just beginning to find out what really happened.

Joining me now is former Miami Dolphin Randall Hill and former Green
Bay Packers LeRoy Butler. He`s the founder of the "Be a Buddy Not a Bully"
campaign. Thank you both for coming on the show tonight.



SHARPTON: LeRoy, we`re learning more horrific details. In your 12-
year NFL career, have you ever seen anything like this?

BUTLER: This would be the first. Especially when it`s a veteran
who`s a white guy attacks an African-American. And then the racial slurs
and stuff like that, that doesn`t necessarily go on in the locker room.
What I will say as being a leader of the locker room myself, the leaders on
that team should have took care of that long before the coaches knew about
it and long before the media knew about it. But it seems to me that it was
more guys that believed in what Richie Incognito was doing to Martin than
trying to help Martin out. And I think that`s where the bullying comes in.
We`re supposed to be able to love each other and work together. Especially
when you`re playing football. And that doesn`t seem like it occurred.

SHARPTON: Randall, have you ever experienced or witnessed anything
like this?

HILL: No, sir, I haven`t. But, you know, we still got to see what
the investigation is going to come out to. And, you know, a lot of people
are jumping to conclusions. And, you know, if there are, you know, I`ve
heard, you know, some of the comments that he made on the phone and/or, you
know, text messaging. But, you know, for some reason members of the
Dolphins organization and the team are actually supporting him. So, you
know, I like to say exactly, you know, how it comes out.

SHARPTON: Let me stop you right there Randall because that`s curious
to me because a lot of them have come out much more support of him than
Martin. Do you think they`re coming out to protect the Dolphins and to
protect their careers there or that they`re genuinely coming out because
they support Incognito?

HILL: Well, you know, I think that they`re actually supporting him
because, you know, look at him as a team member. Mr. Butler, he knows that
to be true. You know, that`s just how it is in that particular atmosphere.
You know, with that being said, you know, if there`s something that is done
wrong or something that he said that`s wrong, it needs to be addressed and
addressed out quickly.

SHARPTON: Now, let me go back to you on this, LeRoy. Dolphin coaches
have been accused of asking Incognito to quote, "Toughen up Martin." And
at least one former player says the same. You can`t talk about bullying
with coaches. Quote, "What happens if you go to your coach and say this
guy is bothering me? He is going to look at you and go, are you crazy, you
wuss, you`re not tough, get out of my office." Do you think that that`s
true? Are complaints like this too often dismissed in your opinion, LeRoy?

BUTLER: I think it`s just like the movie "A Few Good Men." The
colonel told the guy to give the guy a code red. The guy died. So it
doesn`t make it right. I think the only person that`s supposed to toughen
a guy up is the coaches. Again, there`s no leadership. I think maybe if
Martin had come in the locker room with a gun and killed Incognito, now
we`re supposed to hands up. But when the guy asks for help and doesn`t get
it, then there`s no leadership.

HILL: Well, he`s absolutely right. But you know, at this particular
point, you know, when did he actually go and ask for help? You know, a lot
is being said --

SHARPTON: Let him finish, LeRoy. Go ahead.

HILL: You know, I go into that locker room sometimes. And you know,
I have yet to hear, you know, of a player saying that, well, he came to me
and asked me for help. You know, something else is being made about his
background. You know, I got to tell you. You know, my mom and dad, they
gave me everything. And they laid it out for me. And I`m blessed by that.
And you know, but it didn`t make me necessarily soft. And whenever I had
an issue, my mom and dad always told me, listen, you know, speak up and
address the issue, you know, when it needs to be addressed.

SHARPTON: Now, as you come in on this, LeRoy, when we`re talking
about something over and over again and we`re talking about racial slurs
used and we`re talking about people making vicious sexual references to
your sister, that`s not just toughen up talk in a locker room.

BUTLER: Yes. I think the thing about it, Richie Incognito when he
was a kid it was reported that he was bullied and this was his chance to
get back. But let`s take this further. And Randall you know this. When
we take guys out, we don`t spend $30,000 or $15,000 on food or for trips.

HILL: You`re absolutely right.

BUTLER: I mean, everybody does it -- yes, we do that to fit in with
the veterans. And they ask us to sing our fight song, which I didn`t know,
by the way.


BUTLER: But it was just fun. But the most important thing is how
much we get out of it. You know, we used to play against, you know, the
University of Miami, I noticed most of you guys was together. It was a
team, it was a family. The same thing at Florida State. We loved our
teammates. And that didn`t go on in Miami. I think I`m right about that.

SHARPTON: Well, let me say this. And I think you`re right to keep
saying that, Randall, that it`s under investigation and we don`t know what
all is going to pass through the investigation. But the fact is that
clearly this is something that has raised a lot of attention and a lot of
concern. Where should the line be drawn? Whether these allegations are
true or not, where should the line be drawn is the real question, Randall.

HILL: No, and you`re absolutely right. But you know, I think a line
should be drawn where, you know, each individual is accountable for
themselves. You know we should be accountable for ourselves and look in
the mirror and be super critical of ourselves. For example, if someone is
bothering me, you know, I know that, you know, most parents teach their
kids, listen. Speak up, go tell a teacher, go tell a coach, go tell
someone. If not, you know, it could escalate. You definitely don`t want
to it to get to the point of where you`re going to get into, you know,
physical violence and, you know, that sort of thing. But definitely you
have to speak up. And if you don`t speak up, you know, maybe this type of
situation will occur as it is right now unfolding.

SHARPTON: Where should the line be drawn in your opinion, LeRoy?

BUTLER: Well, really to me, there really shouldn`t be a line. You`re
supposed to be one person. You`re supposed to be together. You don`t
toughen a guy up by degrading him. I mean, that`s the thing about toughen
up a guy, to talk about his mom, I mean, back where I`m from in the inner
city, you talk about my mom, don`t fighting words just like Randall said.
We keep it all the way 100. That`s the way we do it. It`s just, to me, if
I had a problem I would go to Reggie White. And Reggie White would bring
Brett Favre in and we say, we have a problem on the team. We would deal
with it.


BUTLER: It just seems that they didn`t do that. And the problem is
this though, real quick, there`s more guys in the locker room that think
the same more like Richie Incognito. Now, if Mike Sherman and Joe Philbin
need to find out who those guys are and get them on the same page.

SHARPTON: All right. I`m going to have to leave it there. I think,
quickly, go ahead, Randall.

HILL: No, you know what? You know, if I have a problem, the first
people I`m going to is my mom and my dad. And his parents are very, very
intelligent. And they probably got him to what his next steps should be
instead of just walking out.

SHARPTON: All right. Well, one thing we can look at this all
different ways but one thing all three of us agreed on is don`t talk about
my momma.

HILL: Yes, sir. Don`t talk about my momma.

SHARPTON: Randall Hill and LeRoy Butler, thank you for your time this

HILL: Thank you.

BUTLER: Thank you, sir.

SHARPTON: Ahead, more on that mysterious death of a high school
student Kendrick Johnson. Today new surveillance video raises more
questions than it does answers. We`ll talk with Kendrick`s parents, next.


SHARPTON: New surveillance video released in mysterious death of
Kendrick Johnson is raising more questions. In January the 17-year-old`s
body was found in a rolled up wrestling mat in his high school gym. And
the death was ruled an accident. New surveillance video includes a never-
before-seen shot of Kendrick walking into the gym as well as 1900 hours of
tape from 36 cameras. The video shows multiple angles of the gym. And it
appears to be missing time stamps.

The Johnson family is calling the video suspicious. Last week a
federal prosecutor opened an investigation, and Johnson`s parents believe
he was murdered. I was with the family in May as part of their attempt to
get this case fully examined. They deserve to know what happened to their

Joining me now are Kendrick`s parents Jacqueline and Kenneth Johnson
and their attorneys Benjamin Crump and C.B. King. Thank you all for being



SHARPTON: Attorney Crump, let me go to you first. All of this new
video was released, but what are your concerns?

Attorney King and I pointed out some very troubling things because we had
got discovered before. And there was a time stamp on the freeze frame
photos we got. And then when we get the surveillance video, there`s no
time tracks on the bottom of the video. And the most troubling thing is
out of the 36 cameras, there`s 36 angles, all of them are vivid and clear
except the one that is pointing to the wrestling mats, that corner where
Kendrick was found dead. That is the only one that is blurry. That`s the
only one that is distorted.

SHARPTON: Let me hold you right there, Attorney Crump. Because I
think that what you`re raising, I want to go and I want put that up.
You`re saying that this is the only tape that is blurred out of all of the
tapes, the tape that actually shows the scene where he was actually found.

CRUMP: Yes, sir.

SHARPTON: And we`re talking 1900 hours of tapes?

CRUMP: Nineteen hundred hours of tape, the only one that`s distorted
is the one that`s the crux of the matter here. Everything else is just

SHARPTON: And you`re also saying that the time at the bottom that you
saw on the original tape is now not on the security tapes that have been
handed over as a result of the court decision.

CRUMP: Yes, sir. We find that very mysterious. The suspicion is as
Attorney King really pointed out when we showed the press the still frames,
you see the time clearly. And now when they give the surveillance to us
like the judge ordered, the time isn`t noted there.

SHARPTON: Let me go to you, Jacqueline Johnson and Kenneth Johnson.
One other thing that`s getting a lot of attention today is that the
coroner`s report. And the coroner`s report said this. I`m quoting. The
investigative climate was very poor to worse when I arrived on the scene.
The body had been noticeably moved. I do not approve of the manner this
case was handled. Not only was the scene compromised, the body was moved.
The integrity was breached by opening a sealed body bag, information
necessary for my lawful investigation was withheld.

As a parent, when you hear the coroner say they interfered with the
integrity of his investigation, that he was in many ways not pleased with
how the scene was handled, how do you feel when you hear that and as people
now understand even the coroner had raised some serious questions. Mr.
Johnson or Ms. Johnson?

troubling and just goes to show the more disrespect to my family with the
sheriff department have done to us. It just doesn`t make any sense at all.
You know, they treated Kendrick like he wasn`t even human.

SHARPTON: Now, Attorney King, the initial autopsies, you had the
autopsies. The initial one showed no signs of blunt force trauma on
Johnson`s face or body. It`s stated he died of accidental asphyxia but the
second independent autopsy shows Kendrick suffered blunt force from trauma
to the right neck and soft tissues which were consistent with an inflicted
injury. And it stated that he died of unexplained apparent non-accidental
blunt force trauma. I mean, how do you deal with the difference in terms
of the outcome opinions of the two different autopsies?

it`s fairly safe to say that this is nothing more than another piece to the
puzzle. You described Kendrick`s passing or his death as a mysterious one.
And the sheriff`s department has described it as being a freak death or
freak accident. We think, of course, it can`t be any more freak than the
investigation that followed. This investigation showed that he had died as
a result of blunt force trauma that Dr. Anderson, the pathologist who they
had hired had said to us that it didn`t appear to be an accidental blow
that he suffered.

SHARPTON: Now, Attorney Crump, the federal government is now stepped
in and announced an investigation. We`ll be watching it. What under
federal law are you hoping they proceed to really look at thoroughly?

CRUMP: Well, we hope that they look at not only the murder mystery
that claimed this young man`s life, Jac and Ken`s child but we want them to
look at the governmental agents` actions into this investigation. Because
as his mother and father have asked, Reverend Al, they want to hold whoever
killed their child responsible and whoever covered up for the persons who
killed their child accountable.

SHARPTON: All right. I`m going to leave it there. And we will
certainly be following this story. Kenneth and Jacqueline Johnson,
Benjamin Crump, and C.B. King, thank you for your time tonight. And our
thoughts and prayers are with you. We`ll be right back.


SHARPTON: Basketball legend Isaiah Thomas joins the fight to stop gun
violence in our cities. My interview with him is next.


SHARPTON: We`re back with the fight to end gun violence. Last night
I spent my first night in Chicago in the west side apartment I`ve rented as
part of a campaign to highlight the crisis in our cities. I met with local
ministers discussing ways to keep our streets safe. In just the first week
of this month, gun violence in Chicago has left six people dead and 17
wounded. Including a six-year-old boy. Yesterday I spoke to the students
there about the issue.


SHARPTON: When you leave school, how afraid are you all about gun

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: It`s always on my mind.

SHARPTON: Gun violence is always on your mind?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yes. Like what if this happens, what if that

SHARPTON: What would you say, any of you, that you`d like to see done
to make the city safer?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Like more law enforcement in high schools. Like
maybe getting on the bus would be a big old crowd of them.


SHARPTON: Later, basketball legend Isiah Thomas and Reverend Marshall
Hatch joined me to talk about how we can keep our communities safe.


SHARPTON: So this is Londale, Isiah?


SHARPTON: Tell me about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Right now there is a resurgence in terms of
thought. There is a resurgence in terms of belief and education. Getting
back to the fundamentals of the ABs and Cs in terms of what makes the
community works. Reconnecting with the church, reconnecting with families.
So, you know, it`s a community that, you know, for a period of time was
strong in this country, had lost its way, but now it`s coming back.

SHARPTON: How did we end up Reverend Hatch going from this strong,
stable community with civil rights roots, upward mentality that you just
heard him talking about and he became a hall of famer. How do we go from
there to random gun violence, kids being shot, and now we`re trying to work
our way back?

in point. This is the community Dr. King lived in 1966, just west of here
when he moved here. And of course then, we were talking about open
housing. And now fast forward, the new civil rights issue of our time is
education. Londale was a great place to have a conversation. Because this
community in fact lost 70 percent of its jobs between 1970 and 1980 right
after advent of a lot of the drug traffic.

SHARPTON: A lot of it is jobs?

HATCH: A lot is jobs.

SHARPTON: You heard this young man tell me in the classroom that he
does great in school and he doesn`t feel safe. He knows anything can
happen here. How`s that make you feel? You pass one of the largest
churches inside the town?


SHARPTON: How`s that make you feel?

HATCH: That`s the heart breaking part. Because the kid that spoke,
he absolutely represents the kind of fear that the kids have to deal with
every day. And I found that them over and over again. And so, it`s almost
like a combat zone, you know, when kids have to feel that sense of fear
just going to and from school. Of course, all the people that study the
brain know it really is difficult to concentrate on school work when you`re
fearing, you know, for your personal safety.

SHARPTON: You said your mother actually marched with Dr. King when he
was still --

THOMAS: Yes. My mother marched with Dr. King and also my mother
worked for Fred Hampton.

SHARPTON: One of the Chicago Black Panthers.

THOMAS: Yes. When they initiated the free lunch program. And again,
it was about education. When you say that I am a hall of fame basketball
player, but really I believe what most people are proudest of me of in this
community is having my masters and getting my masters degree from Berkeley.
This is where we really preach education. So, when we talk about poverty
in those times, it was how do you get out of poverty? And we believe that
education was the best way.


SHARPTON: As we sat in the apartment in the late hours talking about
this Marine Forte (ph), one of the community organizers said that the story
should not just be the violence. The story should be those that continue
to fight and show that we`re not going to run. We`re going to turn it
around. And that`s what we must do. One note before we go.

This weekend I`ll be in Dallas signing copies of my new book, "The
Rejected Stone." Sunday morning I`ll be at the friendship West Baptist
Church in Dallas. And then at 4:00 Sunday afternoon, I`ll be at the dock
bookstore in Fort Worth signing copies of "The Rejected Stone." Please
stop by if you`re in the area.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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