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PoliticsNation, Friday, November 15th, 2013

Read the transcript from the Friday show

November 15, 2013
Guest: Karen Bass, Angela Rye, Maria Teresa Kumar, Randall Hill, Leroy
AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Thank you Ed and thanks to you for tuning

Tonight`s lead, "A New GOP Attack from and Old Republican Hack."

Today, the Right Wing is trying to link one of the worst events in
American history, Hurricane Katrina, to President Obama trying to help
millions of people.

And as the President met with insurance executives to continue to fix
the healthcare rollout former Vice President Cheney was playing ugly.


DICK CHENEY, (FRM) U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: We`d look at the mess that
has been created out of ObamaCare by the President having said, "You can
keep your policy if you like it," you know, guaranteed period. That turns
out that was a lie and he`d repeated it over and over and over again.


SHARPTON: Is he kidding? Are we all getting punked? Yes. That is
Dick Cheney. That Dick Cheney. The man who led the charge too to war in
Iraq over weapons of mass destruction that they still haven`t found. It`s
like Rand Paul slamming someone for plagiarism. Or like, I don`t know,
Mitt Romney slamming the health care law he helped write and calling the
president dishonest.

Wait a minute, that actually happened today.


the president`s plan is not just the rollout. That`s implementation, and
then the glitches of various kinds. It should have been done better, but
it wasn`t. But the real problem that the president has is a broken
promise, is dishonesty.


SHARPTON: You can`t make this stuff up. But it`s all part of the
right-wing plan to do everything they can to make this Obamacare rollout
President Obama`s hurricane Katrina. Why? Because it was the event, along
with the Iraq fiasco, that doomed the Bush presidency.

Today, a former Bush official said, quote, "the echoes to the fall of
2005 are really eerie. Katrina matches to the rollout of the Web site."

Another said this --


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are moments in a presidency where
everything is different afterward. And I believe this is that moment. For
us, it was hurricane Katrina.


SHARPTON: They`re comparing an American disaster to Obamacare, a
disaster that took over 1900 lives, and displaced more than 400,000, to a
law designed to literally save lives. Yes, there are problems. And the
president is working to fix them.

But this law is already helping people, 396,000 new Medicaid
enrollees. More than six million seniors have been saved, $7 billion on
prescription drugs, and 71 million have gotten free, preventive care.

So, no, Dick Cheney, no, to Mitt Romney, and no to the Bushes, and no
Republicans trying to compare this to Katrina is wrong. But you`re doing a
heck of a bad job trying to distort this issue.

Joining me now, Congresswoman Karen Bass and MSNBC`s Melissa Harris-
Perry. Thank you both for being here.


REP. KAREN BASS (D), CALIFORNIA: Thanks for having us.

SHARPTON: Congresswoman, comparing Obamacare to Katrina? I mean, are
they joking?

BASS: Well, you know, I just think it`s really sad. I mean, you
mentioned just a second ago close to 1900 people died. I don`t know how
you can compare a disaster where people died to a rollout of health care.
And the other thing we have to remember now, this is the seventh time the
Republicans have looked at something that happened in the Obama
administration to compare it to Katrina.

So, it is becoming one of their rituals. Just like we voted 48-plus
time s against the repeal of health care reform now every other day they`re
going to be calling everything Katrina. This is their seventh time they`ve
called something Katrina.

SHARPTON: You know, Melissa, you live in New Orleans.


SHARPTON: You lived through Katrina. Your mom is in New Orleans. To
compare this, Katrina was about a president, when people were suffering on
live television, that didn`t come in. They`re comparing it to a president
that saw people suffering that tried to do something and is trying to do
something about it. It is absolutely outrageous.

HARRIS-PERRY: Yes, I mean, look, here is the comparison that works.
Hurricane Katrina is like GOP resistance to Obamacare. And here is how.
In the context of a Hurricane Katrina disaster there was a disaster, a
natural disaster caused by weather, and storms, and wind surges.

SHARPTON: And levees.

HARRIS-PERRY: Right. But the big issue were the federal levy
failure. Which was a failure brought on by a lack of investment in
particularly poor and black communities.


HARRIS-PERRY: And then even after that structural failure, a failure
on the part of the federal government to use the resources and capacity
that it had to save poor people, old people, and people of color. That`s
what the Katrina disaster is beyond the storm.

In this case, the GOP resistance to health care reform is similarly
creating a faulty levee system in our health care creating a circumstance
where our underinvestment makes everyone vulnerable. And in the midst of a
disaster that is brewing, a refusal of the federal government to go in and
help, once again, poor people, the elderly and people of color. So on
that, they`re right, it is --

SHARPTON: So, they`re right about the analogy, Congresswoman, they`re
just wrong about who`s the one that is doing the damage in the analogy, and
that would be them, not the president.

BASS: Absolutely. And I think that that was a brilliant analysis.
And one thing that I`d like to add to that is the fact that you have the
outside organizations that have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to
completely confuse people.


BASS: So it`s adding to exactly what Melissa was saying.

SHARPTON: And are continuing to raise money.

BASS: Absolutely.

SHARPTON: And then let me go back to what I was raising earlier, when
we opened the show, Congresswoman, former vice president Dick Cheney, now
he`s talked about the present president, and he`s attacking him on Obama
care. But let`s watch how he reflects about mistakes in his own past.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: What do you consider your main fault?

CHENEY: My main fault. Well, I don`t spend a lot of time thinking
about my faults, I guess would be the answer.


SHARPTON: He doesn`t think a lot about his own faults.

What`s amazing to me about this answer, and about this Dick Cheney and
this Katrina talking point it appears that`s being used by Republicans, is
that, one, Cheney doesn`t admit to doing anything wrong, but he can attack
this president. And, two, they`re comparing it to Katrina, when until this
morning they were denying Katrina was a mistake of the Bush administration.

BASS: Well, exactly. And I think that this is an effort to try to
rewrite history. I mean, now that Cheney is back on the scene, he wants to
cover up from some of the absolute manmade disasters that he led in his

But you know, you`re really talking about a disaster that waits in
terms of health care reform. The fact that my Republican colleagues are so
obsessed about denying health care to Americans, so that here we are, the
richest country on the planet, in the history of the world, and we have
finally achieved a level of development that we are prepared to provide
health care, and they want to stop that from happening? And they are
wishing for the demise of the Obama administration so that every other day
they have something else to call Katrina. You know, it is also minimizing
what happened in Katrina.

SHARPTON: Absolutely.

BASS: So you are going to talk about a missed comparison. You`re
going to use it seven different times, you are minimizing the death of
close to 1900 people.

SHARPTON: But you also have this, Melissa, when you look at a guy
like Cheney, talking about he doesn`t think about his mistakes, you
contrast that to a President, Barack Obama, coming in front of the American
public yesterday and admitting mistakes, and asking to be forgiven and
saying, now let`s really not lose sight of the goal, and let`s make this
goal achievable, shows you a difference in presidencies, and/or vice

HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. I mean, you know, you and I talked about this
before, one of the things I respect so much about this president and the
way that he is conducting himself and the presidency is the willingness to
actually govern, even when folks are trying to get him on something. So
the great example is the Syria red line. And he says, OK, maybe I said
that. But the real question here is whether it is in our interests. And
even in the interests of the Syrian people for us to intervene. So
whatever I said you`re going to have to live with that. We`re going to
actually assess here.

But I will say that there is still a part of me at this moment who,
I`m deeply concerned with the number of Democrats who do seem to be
abandoning the president, and any extent to which the administration gives
on this. And it`s only to this, part of the reason the necessity of the
shutdown was the recognition that the Republican opposition is not there
because it wants to fix Obamacare.

BASS: Right.

HARRIS-PERRY: It`s not there because it wants the ACA rollout to be
better and smoother. It`s not there because they want the Web site to
work. It is there because they want to destroy the affordable care act.
And so there`s a part of me that thinks, you know, I`m with you. That`s
one of the things I greatly respect about this president. But on the other
hand I also just sort of feel like you have to say to these people as you
said in your intro, no, no, no. No.

SHARPTON: And I think that the point becomes that, because I think to
give anything on this is to act as though we`re wrong about ensuring the


SHARPTON: The goal, the end goal, is where you`re trying to go. Not
those distractions, and/or flaws or bumps on the road.

And to bring that point home, Congresswoman, you`ve got right wingers
rushing to say that Obamacare is the death knell. Not only of Obama, but
of liberals.

Charles Krauthammer wrote today, Obamacare is unraveling with
catastrophically undermine their underlying ideology of ever expansive
central government providing cradle to grave care for an ever grateful

They`re trying to turn back the whole movement of government being
accountable and responsible to help its citizens. So any Democrat that
cosigns this is suspect, to me.

BASS: Well, and I think that`s wishful thinking on his part which
really gets at what this whole thing is about. So, for example, the bill
that was on the floor today, the Upton bill, really talking about you can
keep your own insurance, actually what is a complete undermining of the
affordable care act.

SHARPTON: Exactly.

BASS: Because it allows the insurance industry to write new policies,
and those policies essentially take the clock backwards, and say you can
deny pre-existing conditions, you can bring back the cap, all of the things
that the affordable care act is accomplishing the Upton bill would send it

SHARPTON: But making Melissa`s point and I`ll let you quickly make
another one, 39 Democrats voted for that bill today, and we should not get
political amnesia.

HARRIS-PERRY: Yes. And I just want to remind folks that even if you
are hungry and you`re thirsty and you really, really want to boy spoiled
milk, we do not allow you in this country to buy spoiled milk. We have an
FDA that says once this milk is spoiled it is bad for you. That is what is
what is going on with these health care plans. It`s like saying OK, fine.
People are thirsty, let them drink the spoiled milk. No. We have to say
no to that.

SHARPTON: Congresswoman Karen Bass, Melissa Harris-Perry, I`m going
to have to hold it there. Thank you for your time. Both of you have a
great weekend.

And one way to have a great weekend is catch Melissa Harris-Perry
weekends at 10:00 a.m. eastern right here on MSNBC.

Coming up, the right wing billionaire boys club caught red handed --
Ted Cruz, the Koch brothers, and their big money scheme. And we`ll get to
know the crew trying to impeach power attorney general. It`s a nice try,
but w going to get them tonight.

And the NFL player allegedly bullied is speaking out for the first
time. We`ll hear from him and get reaction from two former NFL players.

Plus, major developments in the shooting of the Detroit teenager
that`s drawn comparisons to the Trayvon Martin case. Stay with us.


SHARPTON: Up next, Ted Cruz joins forces with the billionaire boys
club, his connection to the right wing Koch brothers, and their big money
scheme. That`s next.


SHARPTON: Does the middle guy have a chance now in our big money
system? That`s a big question for our politics these days. And it`s a big
reason we talk so much about billionaires and their influence, over right
wing politics and elections in this country. People like the Koch
brothers, and groups like Karl Rove`s, that use big money to overwhelm
voters and push their right wing ideas.

Today, we have news about those secret connections between
ultraconservative billionaires, and a rising star in the GOP. We now know
that Senator Ted Cruz was a beneficiary of the cash flowing through Koch
brother organizations. In 2010, after Cruz wrote a paper on how to defund
the affordable care act, a Koch-backed group provided his think tank with
more than $65,000. And on issue after issue, Ted Cruz sings from the big
money playbook.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: We should abolish the IRS.

I believe passionately in the second amendment right to keep and bear

I`ll do my best to keep fighting to rein in government.

Under no circumstances will I support a continuing resolution that
funds even one penny of Obamacare.


SHARPTON: We`re also learning more about how much secret money came
from conservative groups in the last election cycle. Karl Rove`s group,
Crossroads, GPS, and American crossroads raked in a total of $325 million
in 2012 alone. Amazing. The Koch brothers-backed group Americans for
prosperity, topped out about $190 million for the year. That money is used
to back far right politicians who, in turn, fought far right legislation
they push, including such genius ideas as cutting taxes for corporations,
blocking any increase in minimum wages. This is what they do. They sign
the paychecks. But they might as well be writing their own laws.

Joining me now is E.J. Dionne of "the Washington Post." Thanks for
coming on the show.


SHARPTON: E.J., Republicans are adamantly opposing an increase in the
minimum wage while taking big money.

DIONNE: In fact, when you think about the balance of forces in the
Congress, minimum wage workers do not have a lot of people out there giving
big money on their behalf. And I think it`s important to realize that
while the labor movement, the union movement, does a lot with the money it
has, its influence is now being dwarfed by this big money, this dark money,
on the right.

And I think one way to look at what`s happening to our political
system, and the great journalist Elizabeth Drew wrote about this awhile
back, is you really have got to kind of pincher movement here because the
people have always been able, through their numbers, to outvote big money.
And, in fact, American Crossroads lost a lot of those races. They put
money in in 2012.

But if you`ve got the money on the one side, and then efforts to
disenfranchise people on the other side, the people they are
disenfranchising tend to be less well off people, they tend to be African-
Americans and Latinos. So that if you`ve got this pressure from both sides
then populist movements and people`s movements that want things like the
minimum wage are facing a bigger challenge than they`ve ever faced before.

SHARPTON: As you mentioned, the minimum wage, they do not want to
raise the minimum wage. And take a look at this E.J., nine states have
lower minimum wage than the federal level or have no minimum wage at all.

But polls show raising the minimum wage is hugely popular. Gallup
found that 71 percent of Americans support it. The American people
overwhelmingly support raising the minimum wage. Do you think Republicans
will change their mind on this as we get closer to elections?

DIONNE: Well, I think they might change their mind on this if
Democrats and others make a big issue of it. I mean, there has been, in
states that have referendum or initiative processes, the minimum wage is so
popular that once you put it on the ballot, no matter how much money the
other side spends against it, most Americans think that people who work for
a living have a right to something close to a living wage, certainly
something better than a poverty wage.

So, on a state by state level, you can win if you can go directly to
the ballot box. But I think this is one of those issues that President
Obama signaled he`s going to talk about it, but I hope he talks about it a
lot more because it they make it a public issue only then can you really
start putting pressure on people to vote for it.

SHARPTON: I`m going to have to leave it. E.J. Dionne, thank you for
your time tonight, have a great weekend.

DIONNE: And great to be with you. Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, they say no to everything President Obama wants.
So what exactly are the Republicans for? And just who are the Republicans
now trying to impeach attorney general Holder? Wait until you see the
esteemed resumes. We know what it is all about and we`ve got them, next.


SHARPTON: What is the Republican obsession with attorney general Eric
Holder? We`ve seen the smears, the ugly attacks, and the disrespect and
now they`re trying to impeach him. With tired, old, debunk back doodle
conspiracy theories like fast and furious and the IRS.

So why are these 20 right wingers doing this? Why now? Why Eric
Holder? And just who is this esteemed list of representatives?

Let`s start with Ted Yoho of Florida. He`s the guy who once said he
would, quote, "check in to President Obama`s birth certificate" and called
Obama care, quote, "racist for taxing tanning beds."

But then the voice of reason himself, Louie Gohmert OF Texas. He said
Obamacare will quote, "absolutely kill senior citizens." And said the
Muslim brotherhood was advising the Obama administration.

Then, of course, Steve Stockman of Texas. He famously invited the
offensive rodeo clown in a President Obama mask to his state.

And brought Ted Nugent to the state of the union. Stay classy, Steve.

But the list wouldn`t be complete without Michele Bachmann. Who once
called President Obama anti-American, and claimed Obamacare was, quote,
"the crown jewel of socialism."

So let`s recap. We have birthers and impeachers. But enough of me
talking. Let`s hear from them. Shall we?


REP. STEVE STOCKMAN (R), TEXAS: We want all tools available to use,
including that impeachment.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not going to comment on that.

REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R), TEXAS: This administration has so many Muslim
brotherhood members that have influence, that they just are making wrong
decisions for America.

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: Let`s repeal this failure
before it literally kills women, kills children, kills senior citizens.


SHARPTON: Pathetic. Pathetic. Did they think we would notice
they`re the all-star team of conspiracy theorists that would make Glenn
Beck proud?

Do they think we don`t know what this really is about? This isn`t
even close to a nice try, but impeach this one. We got you.


SHARPTON: Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news tonight. We know
Republicans hate President Obama`s health care law. But tonight, they
actually have a new plan.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Well, I think you know what our view is. We think
the thing ought to be repealed and replaced entirely.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: We need to repeal it altogether because
it`s not working.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), OHIO: Scrap this law once and for all.


SHARPTON: Oh, oh, wait, that must be an old tape. Let`s get to the
new plan. Here it is. There`s the plan, America. Nothing. It`s the
Seinfeld party. A party about absolutely nothing. No health plan. But
let`s repeal it. It`s the right wing playback. Block anything and
everything President Obama proposes, and it`s not just health care. What`s
the latest on immigration reform?


BOEHNER: Frankly, I`ll make clear we have no intention of ever going
in to conference on the Senate bill.


SHARPTON: No intention of working on it. Even though it`s something
good for the country. Why? Because President Obama wants it passed. What
about employment nondiscrimination act? The bill that would make it
illegal to fire workers just because they`re gay. Seems like a no brainer,
right? President Obama says Congress needs to pass it, Speaker Boehner,
how`s that looking?


BOEHNER: People are already protected in the workplace. I am -- I`m
opposed to continuing this.


SHARPTON: Not only is it wrong factually, it`s just plain wrong. So
why do they oppose it? Because President Obama is for it. That`s why
Republicans block gun safety measures. That 90 percent of Americans
supported. And it`s why 20 House members want to impeach Attorney General
Eric Holder. Republicans can disagree with the president, that`s how
democracy works. But blocking everything he proposes, just to score
political points, that`s not democratic, that`s a joke.

Joining me now are Angela Rye and Maria Teresa Kumar. Thank you both
for being here.



SHARPTON: Maria, there`s no question there are problems with the
health care law. And the president`s working on them. But how can they
point fingers when they have no plan of their own, Maria?

KUMAR: Well, it`s not only that they don`t have any alternatives.
They`re also basically not reading their own playbook. They came out in
marks say that they need to expand the Republican Party. And now are they
going about that? They promised that they were going to reach out to
Latinos, that they`re going to reach out to gays, and reach out to women
and in the last 30 days, they basically said, no to immigration, no to
equal protection under the law at the workplace and reintroduced a 20-week
abortion ban. So, come on, I think that not only is the party disarrayed
but they just realized they`re completely disconnected with the American
people. Not only do they not have any alternatives, they want to be a sun
setting party.

SHARPTON: You know, Angela, Rush Limbaugh, the real leader of the
Republican Party, outlined the GOP strategy on health care. Listen to


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The Republicans need to be
pushing for total repeal, and they should settle for nothing that helps fix
this. They do not, they should not, I can`t understand even why they would
want to be seen as being part of the fix.


SHARPTON: So they shouldn`t be part of doing anything to help fix a
law that would help millions of Americans, Angela.

RYE: Unfortunately, that`s not why they were elected. They are
elected to legislate. And legislate means that you write a measure to help
solve America`s woes, not make them worse.


RYE: And for whatever reason, the way in which these districts were
drawn, with the 2010 census where we know we`re very very gerrymandered,
very Republican leaning and very problematic, so what`s resulted from this
district is this hell no we won`t go strategy. We know that --


RYE: And for some reason they think that they are called to protest
politics and not be legislators.

SHARPTON: You know, Maria, Oprah Winfrey, she was asked if race ever
factors into how the president is treated. Take a listen to what Oprah


OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: Just the level of disrespect when the
senator yelled out, you`re a liar. Remember that? Yes, I think that
there`s a level of disrespect for the office that occurs. And that occurs
in some cases, and maybe even many cases, because these African-American.


SHARPTON: Now let`s listen to some of the disrespect that Oprah was
talking about.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: The reforms I`m proposing
would not apply to those who are here illegally.


CRUZ: President Obama is the most radical president we`ve ever seen.

REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: He has been one of the most
corrupt presidents in modern times.


SHARPTON: I mean, Maria, have we ever seen this level of disrespect
toward any president?

KUMAR: Not only have we never seen this level of disrespect, but what
the Republican Party is doing every time they go after attacking Obama the
president, they`re also basically underpinning -- they`re going after the
underpinnings of our democracy and that`s the respect for the Oval Office.
And that`s very difficult to change, and to build upon for the next
president. And I think that this is a moment in history where we need the
American people to come together, and we need leaders within the Republican
Party to come together and say, this is not acceptable. There`s one thing
when you`re doing politics and making sure that you`re fighting for a good
cause. Whether you`re on the right side or not. But there`s a different
thing when you`re actually starting to undress the person, and the office.
And that`s something that`s a lot harder for the country to recover from.

SHARPTON: Angela, the right is also really after Attorney General
Eric Holder, it`s an obsession and he addressed it a few years ago. He
told "The New York Times," quote, "This is a way to get at the president
because of the way I can be identified with him, he said. Both due to the
nature of our relationship, and, you know, the fact that we`re both
African-American." A lot of these attacks about race, Angela?

RYE: There`s no question about it. And a lot of them would say that
they are not racist. But racist intent doesn`t mean that there`s not
racist impact.


RYE: So you have the first African-American president. You have the
first African-American attorney general. Which means that the civil rights
division has been the most robust it`s ever been. They`re working hard to
protect our voting rights with you, Reverend, so many others. And as a
result, they say that he`s corrupt, and Fast and Furious, he never gave us
answers. There was a walkout when they held the contempt vote led by the
Congressional Black Caucus while I was still on staff. And their contempt
vote died in the house. The Senate didn`t take action because there`s no
merit to it. So we need to be for real about what`s really going on here
and race is absolutely at the center of this.

SHARPTON: And talking about that, Maria, this constant using of
analogies with slavery. And slavery in the context of American history is
all about race. That was what you -- that`s what made you a slave was your
race. You can`t say I`m going to talk about slavery but don`t bring up
race, because that was the basis of slavery. And they keep comparing
everything slavery, slavery, slavery. I mean, all of these connotations
are all kind of race based, and referencing race, Maria.

KUMAR: Not only is it race baiting but more importantly when you call
them out on it and they basically say that it`s the other side that has the
problem. They can`t have an honest, open dialogue, but what they do is
they basically blow the dog whistle and make people more alarmed than they
should be. And unfortunately they go after a constituency that`s very
uncomfortable with the changing demographics of America. Until we can
basically call a spade a spade and say, hey, let`s have an honest, frank
discussion, we can`t move forward as a country.


KUMAR: And, also, let`s look at Eric Holder. The reason they`re
going after him, Angela is absolutely right, because he has actually been
going around the states and trying to rectify the gutting of the voting
rights act which basically now prohibits people of color, and young people,
to participate in full. This is not by accident. So the more that they go
after him, the more that we as a country have to recognize that these are
the basic principles that hold us together, and the fact that we do have
the right to vote.

SHARPTON: And that`s the obsession. And when we talk about it, we`re
pulling the race card. If you get --

RYE: That`s right.

SHARPTON: If you give me a race deck, any card I pull is a race card.
The deck is stacked with it. But the talk is also pushing this like Rush
Limbaugh that we show the talkers in a party that is split, that has no
unity, the talkers drive the party.

RYE: There`s no question --

KUMAR: And the conversation is so -- and the way that they drive the
conversation is so cowardly because they hide behind connotation and they
can`t speak explicitly and the moment you call them out they cower and say
that wasn`t what they meant.

RYE: Well, Maria, I don`t know if this is similar in your community
but with ours Rev, we can certainly attesting, we have to be twice as good,
there`s no way that there could be Rev that acted just like Rush Limbaugh,
you would be snatched from the air immediately.

KUMAR: That`s right.

RYE: So, we have to deal with racism in America. It`s alive and well
in 2013.

SHARPTON: Angela Rye and Maria Teresa Kumar, thank you both for your
time. Have a great weekend.

KUMAR: Thanks for the discussion, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up, the NFL player at the center of the racially
charged bullying scandal. Just broke his silence. We`re live with two
former players. And more on my interview with Oprah. It got personal.
Stay with us.


SHARPTON: For the first time, we are hearing from the player at the
center of the football bullying controversy. As he left a meeting with the
NFL independent investigator today, the player who was allegedly bullied,
Jonathan Martin, broke his silence.


JONATHAN MARTIN, MIAMI DOLPHINS: Today`s meeting is consistent with
my commitment to cooperate with the NFL to investigation into my experience
as a player on the Miami Dolphins. Although I went into great detail with
Mr. Ted Wells and his team, I do not intend to discuss this matter publicly
at this time. I do, however, look forward to speaking directly with
Stephen Ross, Tom Garfinkel and the Dolphins organization at the
appropriate time. This is the right way to handle the matter. Beyond that
I look forward to working through the process and resuming my career in the
National Football League.


SHARPTON: Martin`s Attorney has paying the Dolphins` locker room as
an out-of-control animal house, with malicious physical attacks and vulgar
sexual threats to Martin`s family members. To teammate Richie Incognito
has become the face of this bullying, after admitting to leaving Martin a
threatening voicemail with the "n" word on it.

Joining me now is former Miami Dolphin Randall Hill, and former Green
Bay Packer Leroy Butler. He`s the founder of the "To be a Buddy, not a
Bully Campaign." Thank you both for coming on the show tonight.

LEROY BUTLER, FORMER GREEN BAY PACKER: Thank you for having me, sir.


SHARPTON: Randall, let me start with you. What`s your reaction to
Martin`s statement?

HILL: Well, again, you know, I like to see, you know, what evidence,
you know, has come up. You know, in reference to, you know, what was going
on in that locker room. You know, Mr. Butler there you knows what we have
a lot of fun in those locker rooms but did it cross the line? To date, I
haven`t yet to see any evidence that has showed that it actually crossed
the line.

SHARPTON: Leroy, your reaction?

BUTLER: Well, the one thing that I was a little taken back by in
talking to some people that was close to the situation, they said that some
of the guys in the locker room looked at Incognito as a -- a residential
"n" word. Huh? Are you -- what? I`m confused by that.

HILL: I heard that, too. Yes.

BUTLER: We thought he was one of us. I`m like what do you mean by
that? I don`t understand that. So, it seemed like to me Richie Incognito
filed a grievance on Thursday is basically saying, you all need to pay me
while you all investigating and to some degree kind of agree with him. I
mean, I don`t think his family should be punished for this. But I think in
looking at Martin`s statement, I wish -- I wish it would have been a little
bit more substance.


BUTLER: Before he take, you know, what the lawyers have told him.

SHARPTON: But Martin basically, well, let`s go to Incognito.
Incognito saying this is part of locker room culture. But, is this kind of
behavior ever justified? You know, I was talking to a friend of mine
today. At a workplace, and let`s remember a locker room is in the
workplace. Owned by stadiums.

HILL: Yes.

SHARPTON: Many of whom get subsidies from taxpayers and their
municipalities. So it`s not the players` locker room. You`re there
working at a workplace that is owned by owners, who deal with, in some
cases, public funds. Do you have the right to determine that you`re going
to say things that are racist, homophobic and all, in the name of, that`s
how we are. Like you`re any different from any other worker going to a
workplace in America?

HILL: Well, you know, sometimes you have to be, you know, definitely
cognizant of what you say in the workplace. But like, for example, you
know, and I talked about this one before, the generational gap. You hear a
lot of people talking about, you know, referring to a lot of athletes as
being, you know, hey that guy, you know, he`s a beast. He`s a beast. He`s
so good he`s a beast. You know, even on my radio show, you know the radio
show that I do, I never refer to any athlete as being a beast.

Because you and I both know historically, you know, when you`re
talking about calling someone a beast, you know, it`s not correct.
Especially with someone, you know, who`s of African-American descent.
Even, you know, even, beyond that, you know, when you sit up here and you
listen to some of these young guys referring to each other as the "n" word,
the "n" word, and you know, they may not even be black, so you know, what
is the intent? You know, who are these guys? How are they talking to each
other? Are they friends? Do they talk to each other like this all the

SHARPTON: But, my point is Leroy, they wouldn`t tolerate this at any
other work site. The question I think that a larger question here, are
athletes being put to a -- on a pedestal, treated differently. You
couldn`t, in this studio, in MSNBC, say that`s how we talk in the cubicle.
I mean what are you talking about? Nobody determines at the workplace how
they behave. That is determined by those that own or run the workplace.

BUTLER: Well, the difference with football, Reverend Al, we are our
own supervisors. And ultimately --

SHARPTON: But you`re not your own payers. You don`t pay yourself.
And I`m saying that the public has a right to say to the -- to those that
are in charge, who do get subsidies and all kind of favors, wait a minute,
we`re subsidizing and you allow this kind of behavior?

BUTLER: You know --

HILL: If I could, you know --

BUTLER: People don`t get -- go ahead, go ahead Randal.

HILL: If I could jump in. You know, if you really look at, you know,
the players actually run the locker rooms because there`s no one outside
who subsidized the locker rooms actually come in there to join in and try
to critique what goes on in the locker room.


HILL: Even, you know, with that being said, people always say, well,
the coach should have known what was going on in the locker room. You
know, Mr. Butler knows the coach very rarely even comes in the locker room.
You know, he may walk through as he`s going out to practice but it`s the
players who need to get, you know, be accountable for themselves if there`s
something that --

SHARPTON: That may change now. That may change now, Reverend.

Let me raise this quickly, we find that Jonathan Martin`s mother is a
prominent attorney. Martin`s mother was one of the first cases at Harvard
law school involved workplace racial discrimination. She went on to handle
employment discrimination cases for nearly two years. She even wrote a
"USA Today" op-ed entitled "Stop Workplace Harassment in your Company." So
this may get to some of the larger issues that I`m raising. If his mother
has influence on this.

Randal, Leroy?

HILL: Well, I think for the most part --

BUTLER: Well, she`s a --

SHARPTON: Go ahead, Leroy.

BUTLER: Yes, she`s a leader in the community, of course. And if she
raised her kid properly, I think definitely that`s why he`s handing it this
way. Because I think a lot of people you look at some of the blogs and
some of the people and there`s some NFL players even wonder why me and
Randal even talking about it. They don`t really want a light shined on it.
But I think she taught him to be a leader not a follower. And putting this
out in the forefront under the light makes him a leader in my eye.

SHARPTON: Randal Hill, Leroy Butler, I`m going to have to leave it
there. Thank you both for your time this evening. We`ll be right back.

BUTLER: Thank you, sir.

HILL: Thank you very much.


SHARPTON: There are major developments to report in the shooting of
the Detroit teenager that`s drawn comparisons to the Trayvon Martin case.
As we reported nearly two weeks ago, 19-year-old Renisha McBride was shot
in the face, and killed, on the front porch of her home in Dearborn
Heights, Michigan. She had gotten into a car accident nearby and her
family says she was knocking on doors looking for help. Today the Wayne
County prosecutor charged Theodore Paul Wafer with second degree murder for
shooting her. The prosecutor revealed evidence showed he opened his front
door, on his own, and shot Renisha through his locked screen door. And
there was no sign of forced entry. A toxicology report reveals she was
drunk, and possibly had marijuana in her system. But, the prosecutor said
that had no bearing on her decision to charge Wafer.


understatement to state that there`s an interest in this case, but we do
not make our decisions on any case that we evaluate based on public

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is it relevant at all that she was inebriated?

WORTHY: We don`t feel it`s relevant to our charges at all in this
case. We do not believe he acted in lawful self-defense.


SHARPTON: Michigan`s self-defense act says a person can use deadly
force if they honestly and reasonably believe the use of deadly force is
necessary to prevent imminent death or imminent great bodily harm. In the
case, the prosecutor says that standard was not met. It`s a welcome
example that stand your ground and castle laws need to be monitored
carefully. And challenged when they are used to shield and hide potential


SHARPTON: Finally tonight. More on the interview that Oprah with me
that will air this weekend. She interviewed me about my book "The Rejected
Stone" and my life experiences. And evolution as a person. And she did
what she does best. Made me open up about the most personal times in my


OPRAH: So were you for a very long time at angry black men?

SHARPTON: Oh, I was very angry. And I was angry not only at society.
I was angry at my father. I was angry at some of my mentors. I felt, you
know, if I had lived a middle-class life and then went to the hood I might
not have been as angry. But I felt robbed. I felt that I had the right
life and you all took it from me for no reason. And then, humiliated my
mother. My mother went from having a new Cadillac every rear to scrubbing
floors, so that I`d have a suit to wear to church on Sunday. I was mad
about that. I was mad about that.

OPRAH: And some of that anger is what we saw in your protests.

SHARPTON: A lot of that anger was exercising protests.


SHARPTON: And exorcised a lot of things in life because I never
stopped and really analyzed and admit to myself, where is all this anger?
I mean when you wake up mad -- I mean, nothing even happened yet, you`re
just mad. When you wake up, and you look at the pillow mad, and I mean, at
some point you got to stop and say, what am I so angry about?


SHARPTON: Because you never really dealt with this pain.


SHARPTON: The full interview airs on the OWN Network this Sunday at
9:00 p.m. and I learned, you`ve got to deal with what moves you. I`m very
angry now, but I`m angry about issues that I see. And that I want
resolved. Not angry because of issues in me. That I never confronted and
never resolved. That`s where we`ve got to go if we`re going to make
progress in this country. Deal with our own contradictions, and then help
straighten out the contradictions in society.

Thanks for watching. I`m Al Sharpton, have a great weekend.
"HARDBALL" starts right now.


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