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PoliticsNation, Tuesday, November 19th, 2013

Read the transcript from the Tuesday show

November 19, 2013
Guest: Faith Jenkins; Ken Padowitz; Barney Frank, Richard Wolffe, Michelle
Cottle, Ira Acree, Jeff Gardere

REVEREND AL SHARPTON: Good evening Ed and thanks to you for tuning
in. I`m live tonight from Chicago. Tonight`s Lead, out of jail.

Late this afternoon, George Zimmerman was released from a Florida jail
after posting $9,000. Earlier he was in a court room in handcuffs and a
prison jumpsuit. This time in connection with domestic charges that landed
him behind bars yesterday.

The judge ruled, he cannot have a firearm or leave the state of
Florida. In a frantic 911 call yesterday, Zimmerman`s girlfriend said, he
pointed a shotgun at her. Zimmerman denied that today as he faced the

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a question about any of these rights
Mr. Zimmerman.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: No, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand all those rights?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Zimmerman, do you understand that the reason
for your arrest is that it has been alleged that there was a domestic
violation related aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and a domestic
violence related battery and criminal mischief. Do you understand that?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.


SHARPTON: The judge set the bond this afternoon with conditions.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to set the bond in this case at $9,000
which is $8900 on the aggravated assault and $50 for each of the
misdemeanors for a total of $9,000 with numerous special conditions. You
cannot have any contact at all with Samantha Schiebe. Next, no possession
of any weapons or ammunition while you are out in bon. And that`s in part
for her safety and in part for your own safety. I am going to have the
impact monitoring device to keep you away from her and no traveling outside
the state of Florida while you are out on bond.


SHARPTON: The headline, no possessions of any weapons or ammunition.
His guns taken away. And today, a new revelation from the state attorney,
an allegation of violence which Zimmerman`s girlfriend says happened just
days before his arrest.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I could just put some other things On the
Record. The victim had indicated that there was a prior domestic violence
incident that occurred approximately a week and a half ago that involved a
choking that she did not report to the police.


SHARPTON: Zimmerman told his own version of events in his own 911
call yesterday.


UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. What`s going on there?

ZIMMERMAN: My girlfriend has, for lack of a better word, gone crazy
on me.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Your girlfriend?


UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK, where is she now?

ZIMMERMAN: Outside with the police.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. The police is -- is already there and
so why are you calling? What happened?

ZIMMERMAN: I just want everyone to know the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. The officers can speak with you on
the scene. Have you already spoken with them?

ZIMMERMAN: No. They are pretty upset, I think.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: The officers are upset?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, they are banging on the door and the window.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Are you going to be able to speak with

ZIMMERMAN: I don`t have anything to say.


SHARPTON: After that 911 call, police found Zimmerman in his
girlfriend`s house barricaded inside with furniture. And as this new
chapter for Zimmerman gets underway, another close today. While he was in
jail, he was officially served divorce papers by his estranged wife Shellie
Zimmerman. At this hour he`s out of jail.

Joining me now, NBC News legal analyst Lisa Bloom, former prosecutor
Faith Jenkins, and defense attorney Ken Padowitz. Thanks for being here.




SHARPTON: Lisa, he is out on bail. But his guns are taken away and
we have new allegations of choking. Do you have any question now that he`s

BLOOM: I have no question that he is dangerous. You know, either
George Zimmerman is constantly surrounded by people who are, quote,"
crazy," his word. You know, he said Trayvon Martin jumped out of the
bushes at him. Now he says that this woman went crazy. He said two months
ago that Shellie Zimmerman was the instigator and the one that was breaking
property and causing problems.

See, everybody around Zimmerman, by coincidence, just happens to go
crazy or here is lying or he provokes people. Either way, there`s no set
of facts under which he should be having guns in his possession. And thank
goodness, the guns are now out of his possession today in the state of

SHARPTON: Now, you know, Faith, it does seem like a pattern with
every case that we`ve now seen starting with Trayvon and then his wife and
now this, where he turns the case around that he has become the victim of
someone who has either approached him or was attempting to assault him or
went crazy on him. And I thought what was very interesting, Faith, is his
911 call. Why would you call 911 when the police are already there and you
say they`re banging on the door and they are banging on the window? Why
are you calling 911 to tell a story when you could talk to them? Just open
the door. I mean, that was kind of weird.

JENKINS: Well, it was strange. But it`s a part of what George
Zimmerman does. This is a person who`s been involved in the system for a
very long time. He knows that in a case like this, all of the evidence is
going to be taken into account. And so he inserts his own piece of
evidence. He makes a 911 call for himself. He knows that his, I guess ex-
girlfriend now called 911. He was there listening to the call. So, he
calls to completely contradict what she`s saying.

SHARPTON: Creating his own defense.

JENKINS: Creating his own defense. Look how well it worked for him
in the trial. He gave so many statements, they were able to use those
statements unchallenged. Did not have to be subject to a cross
examination. He never had a take the witness stand. And he did that with
the 911 call. Someone who knows how to control, by the way, their anger
and emotions, they don`t get into situations like this. But this is a
person that does not know how to do that.

SHARPTON: Talking about his emotions, Ken, the state attorney
revealed that allegedly Zimmerman recently mentioned suicide. After the
hearing, his attorneys said they disagreed. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had indicated that they had been discussing
breaking up. He also has mentioned suicide in the recent past.

DANIEL MEGANO, PUBLIC ATTORNEY: My impression again after speaking to
Mr. Zimmerman, he didn`t appear to be a danger to himself or anybody else.
He`s very clear. He`s very coherent. He understand what is going on.


SHARPTON: So, Ken, what does the fact that now we have a choking
allegation, now the mention of suicide, what does this do to the future
proceedings that apparently may come out of this arrest and this case?

PADOWITZ: Well, the future proceedings are very serious for this
grandma manipulator. And that is the word for today, manipulation. I
mean, this man barricades himself in a house and then when the police are
there, they don`t` -- you know, he doesn`t move the barricades that police
have to push their way to the barricades. And all of us have common
experience where we know innocent people barricade themselves in their
homes. Of course, I`m kidding.

He has got a serious charge in Florida. He has a three year minimum
mandatory. So the prosecution has a lot of leverage in this case. And
this is a victim-driven crime. If this victim maintains that this gun was
pointed at her, Mr. Zimmerman`s going to be hit with an aggravated assault
with a three year minimum mandatory and it`s going to be almost certainly
be a trial unless the victim reseeds from her statement.

So, this is a very, very serious charge for Mr. Zimmerman. And he`s
not going to be able to manipulate the system, I don`t believe, as he had
gone in the past.

SHARPTON: Now Lisa, when you look at the fact he does not have the
legal team he had in the Trayvon Martin case. He does not have these high-
powered lawyers. In fact, late today, officials released Zimmerman`s
application seeking the appointment of a public defender. And he reveals
he has not -- he has a total amount of liabilities and debts in the amount
of $2.5 million. So he`s not going to have this crack legal team.

BLOOM: Well, that`s right. Although there are many outstanding
public defenders who work very hard representing people every day. So I`m
not going to pre-judge his team. You know, what he has this time around is
he doesn`t have the issue of racial profiling which I believe was part and
parcel of the Trayvon Martin case. And he has a victim, we hope, who is
going to testify because he did not kill victim this time around.

And so, one of the biggest issues in domestic violence is whether
women have the fortitude, as usually if you know victims, whether they have
to (INAUDIBLE) and the support to carry their charges through to trial.

One thing to make those charges, very difficult to go forward. I`m
sure this young woman is swamped by media requests today so far. We
haven`t heard from her. And she`s probably gets pressure on both sides.
But it`s important she gets the support that she needs so she can go
forward if she chooses to do that with her allegations because as Ken said,
these are very serious allegations.

SHARPTON: Now, Faith, talking about that young lady Samantha Scheibe
is her name. In her 911 call, she said Zimmerman, and I`m quoting her,
knows how to play this game. Listen to this.


stuff in my house.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Ma`am, ma`am. What`s going on?

SCHEIBE: He`s in my house breaking all my (bleep) because I asked him
to leave. He has his freaking gun breaking all of my stuff right now. No.
I`m doing this again? You just broke my glass table. You broke my
sunglasses and you put your gun in my freaking face and told me to get the
(bleep) out because this is not your house. Now, get out of here.


SHARPTON: So she`s describing what`s going on and she says later in
the tape that he knows how to do this, he knows how to play the game.

JENKINS: Right. It`s similar to what Shellie Zimmerman said in a
recent interview she gave about George Zimmerman and these are people in
his inner circle. Now, we`re outside observers. We`ve watched him and
we`ve examined his behavior and we watched the trial. But these are people
in his inner circle. And who knows him better than his girlfriend or his
wife, the people that he has spent a lot of time with? And it is certainly
not uncommon.

Today we heard the charges, the allegations of the prosecutors said in
court about a prior incident with Zimmerman strangling this young woman.
And that`s not uncommon in domestic violence cases. You have a 911 call
generally when it`s first reported by the alleged victim, that`s the floor,
not the ceiling in terms of the level of violence in the incidents that
have occurred between two individuals.

So, that was actually a positive sign she`s corroborating with
investigators and she is cooperating with the prosecutors because she`s
giving them more information about what has been going on. And I hope she
continues to cooperate with the investigation going forward.

SHARPTON: And the judge ordered, Ken, that he cannot be in touch with
Miss Scheibe which is usually how someone tries to talk someone out of
going forward as Lisa raised. That in many cases sometimes the victims of
domestic violence or alleged domestic violence don`t go forward. One of
the first ways of trying to unravel that is the actual alleged perpetrator
talks them out of it. And he`s going to have a difficult time doing that
if he cannot talk with her.

PADOWITZ: Absolutely. That order`s going to be stringently enforced.
In fact, if he even think about contacting her even through another person,
his head will spin off and shoulder so fast when they yank him back into
that jail cell. So, that is not going to happen here. And they`re going
to make sure that order has teeth and there will be no contact with the
victim in this case. So, he`s not going to be able to influence her in
that regard whatsoever.

SHARPTON: Lisa Bloom, Faith Jenkins, and Ken Padowitz, thank you for
your time tonight.

JENKINS: Thank you.

BLOOM: Thank you.

PADOWITZ: Thank you.

SHARPTON: Coming up, these Obamacare haters are using words like
radical and impeachment today. But we have news. The tea party George
Washington doesn`t want you to see.

And the right winger that once told President Obama to quote, "put
down the Koran or put the Koran down and come out with his hands up," he`s
at it again today.

Plus more evidence of record inequality in America. Yet Republicans
are still trying to cut from the poor.

And much more on George Zimmerman. Look at the transformation. Who
is he? A psychologist takes us inside the mind of George Zimmerman. Stay
with us.


SHARPTON: Tonight a huge victory by the Obama administration against
one of big banks behind the financial meltdown. Barney Franks is here on
that next.


SHARPTON: At a time when the GOP will stop at nothing to protect big
banks, today the Obama administration had a major victory. JPMorgan
reached a record $13 billion settlement with the justice department over
its role in selling toxic mortgages. Finally, a big bank is being forced
to take responsibility for the financial crisis.

This important. This is progress. And it`s in line with the
president who`s fighting for everyone, not just the top one percent.


corporate profits are soaring, but we`ve got to make sure that this remains
a country where everyone who works hard can get ahead.


SHARPTON: Everyone should be able to get ahead, but not everyone is.
Last year the top one percent made up more than 19 percent of all household
income in this country. Look at that statistic. That`s staggering. And
why does it exist? It is because we have a Republican party that protects
the rich all while top Republican pundits dismiss income inequality in this


equality as they are in Europe which you end up with this chronic


SHARPTON: Obsessed with quality? Is he serious? This is why you see
the GOP has failed the gender playing out. They`re against raising the
minimum wage, against extending long-term unemployment benefits, against
food stamps. Republicans consider themselves the grand ole party. But
tell me, what`s grand about these priorities?

Joining me now is former congressman Barney Frank.

Mr. Chairman, thank you for your time tonight.

you, Al.

SHARPTON: Now, you had to fight tooth and nail for Dodd-Frank, your
landmark financial reform law. But we still see the GOP continue to fight
against consumers.

FRANK: Well, they`re trying to slow the act down. You know,
something very important sadly happened just the other day. The
regulations that are done under the legislature that we passed can be
challenged and they go before the District of Columbia circuit court. This
is and (INAUDIBLE), very important fact. That court gets all of the
(INAUDIBLE) from any regulation that some bank or hedge fund doesn`t like.
The judges on that court are, unfortunately, in a conservative majority.

Now, there are three vacancies. President Obama is trying to fill
those vacancies, not create any new judges, not packing the court. He just
wants to appoint his share of judges so we wouldn`t have a conservative
bias on the court. And the Republicans are filibustering it. People
should understand why. It`s to protect financial institutions because
until President Obama can get his people confirmed, there will be a
majority there that will strike down regulations unfairly.

And just one more minute, I`m going to give you one quick example.
The commodity futures trading commission which has done a great job and the
(INAUDIBLE) with the authority we gave them in the war, put out a rule a
year or so ago saying no speculation in oil. If you don`t use a commodity,
please don`t buy it all up which is only time for price manipulation.

The judges in that circuit threw it out. They said well, that`s not
good economics. So, yes, they are unfortunately still fighting. And one
example of that is their refusal to let President Obama appoint the judges
he`s constitutionally entitled to appoint.

SHARPTON: We`re going to deal with the blocking of the president`s
judicial nominees, but let me go to this JPMorgan situation. Because right
wing pundits have been blasting the Obama administration for even taking
JPMorgan to task. Listen to this, Mr. Chairman.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s make no mistake about it. This is all about
being a victim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have no chance when you are up against this
type McCarthyism.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In my opinion, this is an attempt to pin all of
the blame for the crash on Wall Street and pin it on the banks as well.


SHARPTON: McCarthyism. I mean, like if they were doing something
wrong to go after banks that sold toxic mortgages to American citizens.

FRANK: Well, we have just heard an example from the Republicans of
McCarthyism. But you and I are old enough to remember Charlie McCarthyism.
He was the dummy who was used by Edgar Bergen. And what you have here is
Republicans are playing the role of Charlie McCarthy. They are the dummies
through which the banks are able to speak. The fact is that JPMorgan Chase
was fined for dealing with loans, making loans and then packaging and
selling loans that never should have been made in the first place.

And by the way, I want to make clear. We as Democrats, during the
early part of this century, tried to make those loans illegal. The "Wall
Street Journal" denounced me for interfering with the frequent. It says
you`re going to keep minorities from getting homes.

What the law does, by the way, is make the kind of loans that JPMorgan
Chase was penalized for it illegal going forward. But it is still
important to make them repay the abuses that have happened in the past.

SHARPTON: Now, I`m running out of time, but I want to show you this
because it really illustrates income inequality. The average minimum wage
worker just brings home a little over $15,000 a year. But the average CEO,
they bring home $9.7 million a year. Now, how can the GOP defend the rich
all while being against raising the minimum wage? I mean, this gap is

FRANK: The last time we raised the minimum wage under President
Clinton, employment went up, not down. By the way, 40 years ago they would
argue well, if you raise the minimum wage, the American jobs will go
overseas. But overwhelmingly today, the people who get the minimum wage
are people who work in service industries here, people who work in
restaurants, the people who do such wonderful work take care of the sick in
nursing homes and hospitals, people who work in grocery stores.

You know, you can`t go to India to buy your groceries. So this
argument that there`s an economic negative is just simply wrong and the
experience is now overwhelming that the minimum wage will help alleviate
the worst poverty.

SHARPTON: Well, it`s great that Dodd-Frank is still the law.

Former congressman Barney frank, thank you for your time tonight.

FRANK: Thank you, Al.

SHARPTON: The tea party`s hatred and disrespect towards President
Obama, it was on full display again today. It`s time for this to stop.
That`s next.


SHARPTON: America`s leading expert on plagiarism, GOP Senator Rand
Paul, is running into some trouble as he tries to cut and paste his way to
a presidential run. That trouble is called Chris Christie. Here`s the
governor last night talking about what led to the GOP`s disastrous
government shutdown.


GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Bad decision making, you know,
and a lack of courage. What we have unfortunately in Washington on both
sides of the aisle at times with absolutists.


SHARPTON: Ouch. Ripping the GOP and ripping Washington. That`s bad
news for a Republican in Washington who might want to run against Christie
for president. So Rand Paul is hitting back with some harsh words of his


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Is Chris Christie a conservative?

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: You know, it depends on how you define
that. If you have a loose definition, probably.


SHARPTON: Burn. Where`d you steal that zinger from, Senator? Of
course Rand Paul has a much better idea about who should be the nominee for
GOP in 2016.


I think they want someone outside of, you know, what`s been going on.
So, for example, someone like myself who`s been promoting term limits.


SHARPTON: Excuse me? Rand Paul is a Washington outsider? He is a
United States senator. His dad was in Congress for 23 years. His dad ran
for president times.

Senator Paul, you`re not outside of anything. Nice try, but we got
you. Chris Christie got you. And as a special treat today on the 150th
anniversary of the Gettysburg address, this guy has something to say to you


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice try, but we got you.




LARRY KLAYMAN, FREEDOM WATCH: We demand that this president leave
town, to get out, to put the Koran down, to get up off his knees, and to
figuratively come out with his hands up.


SHARPTON: That was right wing activist Larry Klayman last month
making one of ugliest attacks we`ve ever heard about the president. Today,
Klayman and his Tea Party cronies were back outside the White House just
steps away from the home of the first family. And the website right wing
watch caught what they said.


KLAYMAN: We don`t want to return to the days of 1776 when we had to
rise up, when we had King George III who was far less worse than Barack
Hussein Obama.

JOSEPH FARAH, WORLD NET DAILY: We`ve heard that the litany of high
crimes and misdemeanors perpetrated by the occupant in the White House.

RICHARD MACK, FORMER ARIZONA SHERIFF: The birth certificate released
by Mr. Obama in the White house is a fake, a fraud, and a lie.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Our socialist president or a president who favors
Muslim interests over American interests in the Middle East.


SHARPTON: But it wasn`t just Klayman and his buddies cracking birther
jokes and calling the president a socialist. They even rolled out a George
Washington impersonator to call for removing President Obama from office.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Mr. Obama has engaged through his dysplastic tenure
as president in rule my ethics and executive decree, we therefore demand
that this criminal, treasonous individual be removed from office without
delay and held accountable. All his acts as president be considered of no
effect or validity.


SHARPTON: Wow. If George Washington says it, I guess it must be
true. Folks, we shouldn`t have to take this stuff seriously. But it`s not
that different from what senator shutdown Ted Cruz has been saying about
the president.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: We have never seen a president behave like
President Obama who believes he can just pick and choose. He`ll enforce
this law, not enforce another law. I mean, that is --


CRUZ: -- deeply dangerous. That`s a question for the house,


SHARPTON: Impeachment is a question for the house? Way to dodge the
question. Here`s the follow-up.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Would you urge them to consider it?

CRUZ: Any impeachment would have to be tried in the United States
Senate. Since my responsibility would be to render judgment, I would not
want to urge the house to do anything other than exercise its best judgment
and then I would endeavor to do the same.


SHARPTON: We`re supposed to trust the good judgment of Ted Cruz and
the House Republicans. I don`t think so. And when Republicans are using
the same talking points as a guy wearing a tri-corner hat, they`re just as
lame as that George Washington impersonator.

Joining me now are Richard Wolffe and Michelle Cottle.



SHARPTON: Richard, would Senator Cruz be more at home at that Tea
Party rally with George Washington than in the U.S. Senate

WOLFFE: Well, let me just say I think your Abe Lincoln impersonator
was better than the George Washington guy. Ted Cruz has flirted with these
fringe elements all the way through. And the fact that he cannot rule out
what would be an egregious overreach by the United States Congress is
exactly why his Republican colleagues dislike what he`s doing so much.
It`s not thought through. It`s just pandering to the fringe elements of
the Republican Party. Maybe he thinks that`s going to fuel some part of a
Tea Party driven candidacy for president.

But he`s not going to get much support in terms of the broader party.
And if he wants to break out on Iowa on his, you know, path to the
nomination, then he`s going to find it very very hard, indeed. So, I do
think he is encouraging, enflaming and yes, flirting with those elements of
the Republican Party. They are very ugly and let`s face it, also racist.
That`s not the majority of the Republican Party, but it is the fringe.

SHARPTON: Right. Now, Michelle, you know, in that interview I showed
of Ted Cruz, he wasn`t just dancing around the impeachment threats. He
said -- let me show you something else he said.


CRUZ: One of the most troubling aspects of the Obama administration
is aside from their radical policy, the way they`ve implemented it has
sadly been lawless. Over and over again, this president has said I don`t
care what the law is. I`m going to refuse to enforce it.


SHARPTON: He`s accusing the president of being lawless because he`s
implementing the health care law? I mean, Michelle, this is incredible.

COTTLE: Look, Ted Cruz is very much trying for the same goal as Larry
Klayman and a lot of these Tea Party guys. He`s not trying to shoot for
good government. He`s not trying to actually get anything done. He`s not
trying to appeal to a large chunk even of his own party. He wants
attention. He wants to cut through the noise. And these days in the toxic
political climate that we have you have to say increasingly outrageous
things. And he`s the guy who`s willing to say the most outrageous things
in the Senate.

SHARPTON: But it appears that a year after they`ve lost the election,
they are trying to stop this president. They`re trying to nullify the fact
that he won. Yet we continue to see breakthroughs. When you look at
today`s Los Angeles Times, good news for ObamaCare. They`re reporting in
the L.A. Times today, Richard, that enrolling is surging in several states.

WOLFFE: Yes. Look, Reverend. ObamaCare is bigger than a website.
It`s the patient protection in the Affordable Care Act. And that does mean
that when you look at how the states which are empowered to deal with
health care delivery and insurance, when you look at the states, the
numbers and the pictures are very different. Where they have tried to
cooperate, where they tried to engaged with this to help their citizens
gain health care. So this is going to be a very mixed picture for a long
time. That`s not to take away from the mess of this federal website
rollout at all.


WOLFFE: But health care delivery when it comes to programs like
Medicaid, health care regulation when it comes to insurance has been done
at the state level and where those states have engaged with it, it`s going
way better than anyone expected. That`s not a small thing. It`s a big
thing for tens of thousands of people.

SHARPTON: It is a big thing. But Michelle, they are trying to block
this president at every stop. Obstructionism is all they`re focused on.
For example, they are blocking his judicial nominations. They`ve just
blocked Robert Wilkins from a seat on the D.C. Circuit Court. The third
straight nominee this month. Only 76 percent of President Obama`s judicial
nominees have been confirmed compared to 91 percent for President Bush.
And President Obama`s judicial nominees have waited an average -- listen to
this -- of 228 days from their nomination until their confirmation.
Compared to only 148 days for President Bush. Why don`t Senate Democrats
change the rules to stop this obstruction, Michelle?

COTTLE: Look, playing politics with judicial nominees and other
appointees is becoming an increasingly popular game. You know, but inside
the Senate, they are very careful about doing anything that could come back
to bite them later when they`re in the minority. The Senate protects its
privileges to some degree. And so, you know, when we talk about the
nuclear option with kind of changing the filibuster rules, it`s the same
thing. While it might seem like a good idea at the time, everybody in the
Senate is very careful about kind of the long-term implications.

SHARPTON: But, Richard, I understand the long terms implications, I
understand the Senate privileges. But we`ve never seen anything like this
where you are just nullifying the power of a president to nominate people
to the courts, people to the administration. This is unprecedented. Why
not change the rules because you`re dealing with something that we`ve never
seen in terms of this level of obstructionism no matter what.

WOLFFE: Well, sadly, Reverend, this is tit for tat, right? What
started with Reagan stacking the court has moved into, you know, Bush
trying to stack the court. And Democrats stopping that. It has
intensified. There is a precedent for it, but it gets worse every cycle.
And we`re at the point where the courts cannot do their business. And you
know, you have a real debate about whether the D.C. District can actually
do its job. And that`s not in anyone`s interests.

SHARPTON: Richard Wolffe and Michelle Cottle, thank you both for your
time tonight.

WOLFFE: Thank you.

COTTLE: Thanks, Reverend.

SHARPTON: Coming up, new accusations that George Zimmerman choked his
girlfriend and talked about suicide. I`ll talk to a psychologist about
today`s bombshell revelations in court.

Plus, the reason I`m here in Chicago tonight looking for solutions to
a problem that affects all of us. That`s next.


SHARPTON: Tonight, I`m back in Chicago, the heart of the fight
against gun violence. Over the last year, this great city has endured an
unacceptable level of tragedy. Today we held a summit to address the
crisis. With more than 80 elected officials, faith leaders, civil rights
activist, and even gang members. All gathered to talk about the stories
that have become tragically frequent.


UNIDENTIFIED MAN: It happened right across the street from a school.
A shooting that landed a 7-year-old boy in the hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: A lot of shots, man. Like boom, boom, boom,
boom, boom. A kid got hit in the face.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Five year old Jaden Donald is still on a
respirator after being shot while playing on a South Side Park on July 4th.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: It`s hard. I never thought I`d lose a child.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: He shot my baby in the face.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Why would you do something like this? Why? All
these innocent people out here and kids. Why would you do something like


SHARPTON: So many victims. So many of them children. Like Deonta
Howard. A 3-year-old who was shot in the head on September 19th. Jaden
Donald, a 5-year-old who was shot in the stomach on Fourth of July. Seven-
year-old Christian Lyles shot in the neck that same weekend. And Jonylah
Watkins, six months old, a baby who died after being shot five times. We
must all come together to fight back against the violence that has plagued
this city and this country for far too long.

Joining me now is the Reverend Ira Acree who`s one of the city leaders
that convened the summit with me on gun violence held today here in
Chicago. Reverend, thank you for being here.

Reverend Sharpton, for having me.

SHARPTON: Now, you know, when we talked about what was going on here
in May and you challenged me and others to help out nationally and we took
the apartment, you said there are people on the ground that are fighting
back that are not running. And a lot of them were in the meeting today and
talking about doing some things. And escalating and putting attention on
it. But earlier this month, I visited a magnet school with you where I
spoke the student about the violence they face every day. Watch what one
of them told me.


SHARPTON: When you leave school, how afraid are you all with that gun

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: It`s always on my mind like --

SHARPTON: Gun violence?

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yes. Like what if this happens, what if that

SHARPTON: What would you say, any of you that you would like to see
done to make this --

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I`d put like more law enforcement in high schools.
Like, whenever you`re getting on the bus, there`d be a big crowd of them.


SHARPTON: I mean, what do you say to a child whose reality includes
being worried about getting shot every time he leaves school?

ACREE: Actually, I was there with you when the young man spoken. I
was overwhelmed. My eyes really welled up with tears because we failed
this young man. All I could tell him is, do your very best to stay out of
harm`s way. Don`t go out by yourself. And this is something that you`ve
got to tell young people, something like that in such a time as this. It`s
really terrible. We just need to make a commitment. All hands on deck.
All of these activists we had in the room, civil rights leaders, elected
officials, faith leaders. We`ve got to put all hands on deck and turn this
all the way around.

SHARPTON: Now, one of the solutions that we said today is we`re going
to have town hall meetings and we`re going to break down these barriers of
just one side of town as opposed to another and make Chicago a national
model. Because it`s not just a Chicago problem. It`s a national problem,
and you`re fighting back on the ground. And you`ve done things with your
church and programs getting young people ready for school building hope and
determination in them.

ACREE: Absolutely. Yes. We`re fired up about that. And even after
you left, we had people from Gato Bradley (ph) to -- to Mark Allen and the
Wall Street project and other various ministries.

SHARPTON: These are grassroots people.

ACREE: These are grassroots people ready to make a difference. And
it was really a very powerful momentum builder. And we`re looking forward
to have a town hall meetings on both sides of town because we got in this
violence and we need an urban policy, we need urban renewal to deal with
stuff like the equitable funding in schools. We`ve got to deal with stuff
like lack of opportunity in jobs. Because desperate people resort to
desperate measures. Whether it`s right or wrong, that`s not the question.
But when people are getting killed because they`re trying to solve an
economic problem, we must do something about it.

SHARPTON: You know, both the president and the first lady have been
here and spoke about violence affecting their hometown. But it`s got to
come from the bottom up, not the top down. But the president and first
lady addressed is right here. Listen to this.


PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: Last year, there were 443
murders with a firearm on the streets of this city. And 65 of those
victims were 18 and under. So that`s the equivalent of a Newtown every
four months.

MICHELLE OBAMA, U.S. FIRST LADY: I`m not talking about something
that`s happening in a war zone halfway around the world. I am talking
about what`s happening in the city that we call home.


SHARPTON: So we need help from government. We need help, state and
city. But we also have to from the bottom up build a movement to change
the mentality, to change the thuggism that a lot of our young people in
desperation have just embraced. That`s got to come from us on the ground.

ACREE: Absolutely. You know, we`re going to continue to fight for
opportunities. We`re going to continue to fight for equitable funding in
school. But let me tell you, the funding wasn`t so great when I was coming
along. So it wasn`t equitable funding that kept me out of jail, kept me
from selling drugs, it was man in the church, it was community leaders who
are role models and mentors to me. So, it takes all of us, it takes a
community coming together for renewal.

SHARPTON: That`s what we`re trying to do. Reverend Ira Acree, thank
you so much for your time and your leadership.

One program note. I spent the last year working on a documentary
about the epidemic of gun violence in this country. Fifty years after
President Kennedy was killed by a sniper`s bullet, 50 years of guns airs
this Friday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on MSNBC. We`ll be right back.


SHARPTON: Who is George Zimmerman? A psychologist takes us inside
the mind of George Zimmerman. Next.


SHARPTON: Who is George Zimmerman? Now charged with felony
aggravated assault after allegedly pointing a shotgun at his girlfriend.
You can see the transformation here? So, who is he? We`re going to try
and get some answers.

Joining me now Jeff Gardere, a clinical psychologist and MSNBC News
contributor. Thanks for being here, Jeff.

JEFF GARDERE, MSNBC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Always a pleasure, Reverend.

SHARPTON: You know, he always seems to find himself and brushes with
the law. What does that tell you about him, Jeff? I know you`ve never
examined him, but what does what you know from this pattern tell you about

GARDERE: Well, from looking at his behaviors and being able to do
that through the eye of the media, this is an individual who certainly has
what we call a personality disorder. A little bit of antisocial
personality, a little bit of narcissistic personality, a little bit of
schizoid personality, and that is an individual who sees the world only on
his terms. Everyone must March to his own beat. He doesn`t want to
compromise. And it`s all about the planet being his and everyone else just
living on it.

SHARPTON: Now, I was listening earlier to the conversation that
Zimmerman had placed a call to police after his girlfriend had called
police and the police were at the house. He then called the police.
Listen to this conversation with the dispatcher and Zimmerman as the police
are downstairs knocking on the door.


DISPATCHER: OK. The police is already there and so why are you
calling? What happened?

know the truth.

DISPATCHER: OK. The officers can speak with you on scene. Have you
spoken with them?

ZIMMERMAN: No. They`re pretty upset, I think.

DISPATCHER: The officers are upset?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes. They`re banging on the door and the window.

DISPATCHER: You`re not going to go speak with them?

ZIMMERMAN: I don`t have anything to say.


SHARPTON: Now, aside from the thoughts of maybe he was building a
legal case or legal defense, listen -- he was just involved in an
altercation, listen how calm he seems while he`s talking in the middle of
all of this. Does that say anything to you, Jeff?

GARDERE: Absolutely. Here we`re looking at a person who is in such a
state earlier, allegedly breaking things, threatening another individual.
Now all of a sudden he`s so calm. We call that flat affect. And it`s very
inappropriate for the situation that he`s in. Part of that is because he`s
manipulating the situation. The other part of it is he`s just not
connecting with the world in a socially appropriate way. Everything
happens from inside for him. Within his mind. That`s the reality. And he
does not accept the reality of the world which is why he continues to find
himself in these brushes with the law acting out with his anger and so on.

I saw this coming a mile away. We saw it with O.J. Simpson who just
couldn`t stay out of trouble because he also had some sort of personality
disorder. He`s slowly unraveling. And I think we`re going to see much
more of it because of the stress that he`s already under. Just think of it
as a boiling pot and the flame just keeps getting higher and now we see
that the water starts boiling over even quicker because that water is
actually part of this sociopathic personality, the flame being the stress
that he`s under.

SHARPTON: And we see him appear differently. One time clean shaven,
very heavy. Now a beard. I mean, are the physical changes, does that tell
us anything

GARDERE: Absolutely. This is someone who is like a chameleon.


GARDERE: A changing personality because he does not have any essence
inside of himself. Nothing real.

SHARPTON: I`m going to have to leave it there. Jeff Gardere, thank
you for your time.


SHARPTON: Thank you for being with us. And thank you for watching.
I`m Al Sharpton. "HARDBALL" starts right now.


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