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The Ed Show for Thursday, January 30, 2014

Read the transcript to the Thursday show

January 30, 2014

Guests: Elijah Cummings, Nina Turner, Karen Finney, Byron Dorgan, Steve


the minimum wage basically got the equivalent of a $200 pay cut because the
minimum wage stayed the same.

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN, (R) MINNESOTA: And they are believing .

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I`m just asking if you believe that there should
be ...

BACHMANN: . in Australia.

BLITZER: . an increase in the minimum wage?

BACHMANN: No, I don`t.

BLITZER: All right.

ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Fighting health care.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH) HOUSE SPEAKER: I want to repeal the law of the
land. Is that clear?

SCHULTZ: Concentrating in wealth.

OBAMA: Nobody who works full time should ever have to raise their family
in poverty.

TOM PERKINS: To demonize the rich who spend and buy things and stimulate
the economy is crazy.

SCHULTZ: That`s their world, that`s not the real America.


SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching. I
have always been a believer that there is a huge difference between a
venture capitalist and a vulture capitalist. You know, the vulture chart,
that thing we put up so much.

Undeniable numbers. I`m waiting for the RNC in any Republican candidate or
elected official to give me some numbers on the minimum wage and how it
hurts the economy. I`ll get to that in a moment.

But first, I want to talk tonight about this gentleman. We introduced you
to this billionaire venture capitalist named Tom Perkins. Perkins has so
much money. I think he`s removed from reality about what working folks are
all about in this country. He wrote a letter to the Wall Street Journal
saying this.

Writing from the epicenter of progressive thought, San Francisco, I would
call attention to the parallels, he wrote, of fascist Nazi Germany to its
war on its 1 percent, namely its Jews, to the progressive war on the 1
percent, namely the rich.

Perkins has since rightfully apologized for his comments. But that hasn`t
stopped him from defending the top 1 percent of Americans in this country.


PERKINS: I was not talking about the Nazis. I was talking about the
persecution of a minority by the majority.

To demonize the job creators is crazy and to demonize the rich who spend
and buy things and stimulate the economy is crazy.


SCHULTZ: That`s very interesting. To demonize the job creators. Now,
we`re getting the devil of the detail here. You see, because there`s a
difference between a venture capitalist and a vulture capitalist. Save
that, I`ll be right back to it.

The Wall Street Journal has also condemned Perkins` Nazi comparison, and
they should have. However, they also implied that Perkins, you know, this
guy really might be onto something here. The Wall Street Journal sided the
IRS scandal and of course Governor Andrew Cuomo`s remarks on extreme
conservatives having no place in New York as examples of attacks on the

Now, let me be clear. When we talk about income inequality here on the Ed
Show and we have for years, we`re not attacking the 1 percent. No. We`re
not doing that. We advocate for business. We advocate for wages. We love
investors. I love investors. I`m a capitalist. I`m a guy that has to
meet payroll. Now, we`re not waging class warfare and we`re not targeting
anybody. We`re talking about reality in our economy.

Now, I`m not upset with the guys at the very top who are doing very well.
Good for them. Only in America. That`s great. It`s not about these
people who are doing well at the top. It`s about the folks who are down
here that have been there since 82 to 85 to 88 to 91 to 94 to 97 in 2000,
2003, 2006, 2009. I think they quit making this short because they were
afraid of what it was really going to show. Fairness has left the building
since Ronald Reagan`s trickle down tax cuts took effect in the early 1980s.
You can`t deny it. Here are the numbers. Wages have flat line for workers
of this country.

It`s a problem for workers. Disposable income isn`t fair. It`s a problem
for our nation. It`s a problem for the economy. And this isn`t about
attacking people at the top.

When people talk about class warfare, here is what I think about. Class
warfare is letting unemployment expire for 1.6 Americans and counting.
That`s class warfare. Class warfare is cutting food stamps. Gosh. Aren`t
we all excited, we got a Farm Bill now that picks on the most vulnerable in
our society. Class warfare is attacking unions of people`s voices in the
workplace which seems to be exactly what the Republicans love to do. Class
warfare is keeping minimum wage low. Depressing the wages is best we
possibly can so we can see the profit go to the top.

Now, look, I don`t think asking these Americans right up here at the top to
pay a little bit more because the Treasury needs it where in some top
financial times when it comes to deficit. I think that`s the American
thing to do. Why should we ask them to pay a little bit more? Because
they can and we at the society need to make that determination.

Warfare. Let me show you what class warfare really is.


REP. PAUL RYAN, (R) WISCONSIN: To begin with, chasing ever-higher spending
with ever-higher tax rates will decrease the number of makers in society
and increase the number of takers. Able-bodied Americans will be
discouraged from working and lulled into lives of complacency and
dependency. That`s not who we are.


SCHULTZ: Mr. Ryan, will you please produce some of this discouraged
Americans who just want to sit on the couch. Will you give us some
numbers, please? You`re the chairman of the House Budget Committee. You
ought to be able to produce numbers better than anybody else as to how the
minimum wage will hurt young people, hurt minorities, and slow the economy
and they`ll be fewer jobs. Show me the numbers. I mean, Ryan talks as if
-- if you`re on some kind of assistance, you`re a lesser American.

It`s also class warfare to bankroll politicians who support this kind of
policies that Ryan always talks about. I think the wealthy really, when
you look at our election system in this country, the wealthy are attempting
to buy elections all throughout this country. Citizens United. I wish
that have been in the State of the Union, again.

Let`s take for instance Michigan`s senate raise between Democratic
Congressman Gary Peters and Republican candidate Terri Land. Let me take
some folks. This is going to be one of the tightest raises in the country
and it is also going to be very well funded. There is already been a
million dollar ad buy against the congressman, and the accuracy of that ad
has been challenged.

Now, this is what blue liners are really up against in the election cycle.
The Super PAC funded Republican campaigns leading into state and local
elections. Now, I`m not talking about the federal elections, you see.
Let`s proportionally break it down.

The federal election, 57 percent of Barack Obama`s donations were under
$200. 24 percent of Mitt Romney`s donations were under $200. Now, let`s
pair that down to a local election. Let`s pair that down to a state
election. And you tell me if the Democrats are behind the eight ball (ph).
You better believe they are. Oh yeah.

So back to the vulture chart, we not only see wages that are being
depressed across America and we`re seeing the top 1 and 2 percent do well
over the last 30 years, basically, politically, these people, you could
make the case, are being closed out. How many grass rooters are out there
state by state that are going to be able to match the corporate money
that`s coming in and the advocacy money that`s coming in. The people that
don`t want unemployment insurance advanced. The people that don`t want
wages to go up. The folks that are against the health care law. You can
go right down the list.

You know, I was really impressed with the president on Tuesday night at the
State of the Union because he really boxed in the Republicans as I talked
about on this program last night. Boxed them in because he basically said,
you know, "Let`s get with the rest of the country." He basically turned
the Republicans and talked to them about how many people want minimum wage
to go up. How unemployment benefit should be extended. Those are the two
big things. He basically explained to the Congress, you know, "You guys
over here, you have to get with the country a little bit. You`re not with

So, the Republicans are going to have to make some serious policy changes.
They can`t live high on the hog and expect America to follow them. They
get some fundamental problems over there on the right. And if they want to
start talking about class warfare, that is a losing battle for them in a
big, big way.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think tonight`s question.
"Is asking the rich to pay their fair share class warfare?" Text A for
Yes, text B for No to 67622. You can always go to our blog at We`ll bring you the results later on in this show.

For more on this, let me bring in Maryland Congressman Elijah Cummings.
Congressman, good to have you with us tonight.

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS, (R) MARYLAND: Good to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: What is class warfare? What--from your perspective, what is it?

CUMMINGS: I`ll tell you Ed. Certainly, not one Mr. Perkins is talking
about. When you have a situation Ed where so many people in the middle
class are working harder and harder and making less and unable now to --
and find themselves slipping into the lower income brackets, and the poor
just suffering tremendously, and while the rich are getting richer, that`s
a major problem.

And as far as I`m concerned, Ed you -- I agree with you. That`s what a
warfare is. And a lot of people forget that you need a thriving middle
class. A thriving middle class is the engine of society. They are the
ones who are going to buy those cars. They are the ones who`s going to buy
household products and things of that nature to keep their economy going.
And so, we all got to be concerned about middle class and those in the
lower economic rank of the ladder.

Now, there`s one other thing, Ed.


CUMMINGS: Keep in mind that over a 20-year period, a person in poverty in
that lower rank and usually stay -- has a 50 percent chance of staying
there. So, the very points that you`ve been making while economy has done
tripled in output since 1963, folks in the lower economic stratum, they`re
not doing well. That`s not tripling down to them. And again, the middle
class is working harder and getting less.

SCHULTZ: Is there a persecution of the 1 percent taking place in this


SCHULTZ: I mean, if we`re asking the wealthiest Americans to pay a little
bit more or that suggestion being on the table or making sure that
corporations pay their fair share. Is that persecution?

CUMMINGS: Of course not. And I thought that Mr. Perkins` statements were
despicable, but the fact still remains that nobody condemns folks having
opportunity to be successful. As a matter of fact, we applaud success.

What we`re saying is that others need to have the opportunity to do the


CUMMINGS: We have an opportunity. Debt is in the air, Ed. And we`ve got
to do better.

SCHULTZ: How are you going, the Democrats, going to fight against this
massive ad buys that have already started, that are framing opponents and
obviously, going after progressives? How can that be done? I`d showed up
there about how President Obama was able to do it on the national level,
but we`re not talking about national elections. We`re talking about the
infiltration of big money coming into and I used the Michigan raise as an
example there.

That`s a senate seat the conservatives want. There`s going to be a bunch
of money that`s going to be dumped into South Dakota because it`s a low
media market. It`s a cheap seat to buy. What`s the game plan here?

CUMMINGS: I`ve been -- basically, it`s going to messaging, Ed, and we`ve
got to do pretty much what the president did the other day.


CUMMINGS: Making people realize that most of the people watching the
president, the vast majority, are not doing well. They`re not doing as
well as they should be. And they`ve got -- and I think when once we will
begin to realize that hey -- that he`s talking about us, we should be doing
better and that we want to make sure that our children knew better than
what we did, I think, we`ll have a force coming together, but, it`s got to
be messaging.


CUMMINGS: And we`ve got -- and that message is got to be very, very clear.
And I put the president did a great job the other night citing various
examples of the success that we`ve had already.


CUMMINGS: . but again, we`ve got -- people got to realize that they`re not
talking about somebody else. They`re talking about me.

SCHULTZ: Well, he`s definitely working the room. There`s no question
about it.

CUMMINGS: Oh, yeah.

SCHULTZ: Earlier today, President Obama said he`s taking action without
congress to help the long-term unemployed. Here`s what he had to say.


OBAMA: What we`ve done is to gather together 300 companies, just to start
with, including some of the top 50 companies in the country, companies like
Walmart, and Apple, and Ford and others, to say, "Let`s establish best
practices." Do not screen people out of the hiring process just because
they`ve been out of work for a long time.

We just went through the worst recession since the Great Depression. And
so, I`ll be convening a meeting where a number of these top companies will
be coming in, agreeing to these best practices. And we`ll have an
opportunity to, you know, encourage more people to come in.


SCHULTZ: I`ll tell you what, I think, this is one of the best things the
president has done. I mean.

CUMMINGS: Ed, I agree.

SCHULTZ: . there`s a stigma that goes on with somebody who, in a label,
that goes to somebody who`s been out of work for a long time.


SCHULTZ: . and asking this company. Do you think this will have an

CUMMINGS: I think it will have an impact. As a matter of fact, on
Tuesday, I`ll be meeting with the president of Walgreens. And I`m going to
say, give him that same message as reiterating what the president is
saying. I like the idea that the president is going directly to these


CUMMINGS: And say, "We can do better." And it`s in your best interest for
all of our workers to do better.

SCHULTZ: And finally, House Leader Nancy Pelosi announced this afternoon
that she is running again. What`s your reaction to that?

CUMMINGS: I`m a big fan of Nancy and I was a bit of -- and I push very
hard to have her that. I think she did an outstanding job. I was also --
but, at the same time, very sad to hear about my mentor leaving, Henry


CUMMINGS: . I just found that out and I was very sorry because Henry has
been really a giant with regards to so many issues and we will definitely
miss him.

SCHULTZ: Well, I got to ask you. I`m going to extend this for just a


SCHULTZ: There`s a story out there that big donors for the Democrats are
conceding the House. That they`re not -- that they don`t think that they
can win the House. So the money is going to go to the senate raises. Do
you think that this could`ve been a motivation saying that Waxman might be
thinking, "Well, I`m never going to get my chairmanship again?" George
Miller has also announced that he`s going to step out. He`s a long time
progressive. What do you make of this?

CUMMINGS: Well, I don`t know. I don`t know what it is. I do know that --
in fact to George, he said that he had deserved as long as he thought he
should. And now, it`s time for him to do something else in his life. I
think that there comes a time, Ed, in these jobs, where you just come to a
point where you feel like you need to move on.


CUMMINGS: I don`t know what the motivation is.


CUMMINGS: And so -- but I can tell you one thing. Both of them will be
tremendously missed.


CUMMINGS: . because they would -- they are giant and giant voices in the

SCHULTZ: OK. Congressman Elijah Cummings, great to have you with us on
the Ed Show. Thanks.

CUMMINGS: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: . so much. Thank you, sir.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen.
Share your thoughts with us on Twitter @EdShow and on Facebook. We
appreciate it when you do that.

Coming up, in Trenders, game day gets rough. The Puppy Bowl player`s line-
up is announced. Plus, protecting the right to vote is a long ongoing
fight. We`ll talk about it with Ohio State Senator Nina Turner, right
here. At 30 Rock after this.


SCHULTZ: Time now for the Trenders, social media action`s out there. We
appreciate you being a part of it.,, and On the radio, Monday through Friday,
SiriusXM, Channel 127. You can get my podcast of the website at on noon to 3:00 Monday through Friday.

The Ed Show`s Social Media has decided. We`re reporting. You`ll going to
love this one. Here are today`s top Trenders voted on by you.


JUSTIN BIEBER, SINGER: Because I`m 19, I`m going to make mistakes. It`s

SCHULTZ: The number three trender, Bieber busted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justin Bieber is becoming very familiar with the
booking process of police stations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justin Bieber is in some trouble once again. This
time, from an incident in Toronto.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charged with assaulting a local limo driver about a
month ago.

SCHULTZ: There is more trouble for the Pop Superstar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justin Bieber now has three criminal investigations
going on, starting from California to Florida, and now Canada.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You should find yourself a safe house or a relative
close by. Lay low for a while.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than 166,000 people have signed the petition demanding the Canadian-born crooner be deported.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are out of here.

SCHULTZ: The number two trender, super Sunday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Puppy Bowl 10. The cutest event of the year. And
don`t miss an epic kitty half-time performance by Keyboard Cat.

SCHULTZ: The Puppy Bowl line-up is set.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 66 puppies participated this year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose Happy Scrappy Hero pup is named for another
famous Rudy (ph)?

Her name is August. And even in the cold of February, she brings the late
summer heat this cute pup always has its heart set on joining the Puppy

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All these puppies are from rescue shelters around the
country. They`re all available for adoption.

SCHULTZ: And if they`re looking for a host, I think, my dogs, Buck and
Ducky, have a keen eye for talent.

And today`s top trender, up for a vote.

OBAMA: Last year, part of the Voting Rights Act was weakened.

REP. MARCIA FUDGE, (D) OHIO: Our goal should always be to make it easier
to vote, not more difficult.

OBAMA: But conservative Republicans and liberal Democrats are working
together to strengthen it.

SCHULTZ: Voting rights are still an issue leading up to the midterms.

FUDGE: They are trying to, once again, roll back our opportunity to vote
by cutting weekends, cutting evening hours.

OBAMA: It should be the power of our vote, not the size of our bank
accounts that drives our democracy.


SCHULTZ: Joining us tonight, Ohio State Senator Nina Turner, who is a
candidate for Ohio Secretary of State. Senator, great to have you with us


SCHULTZ: The president briefly mentioned a voting in the State of the
Union. Did he get the message across? Was it strong enough?

TURNER: Yeah. I think he was. I mean, he was very firm on why it is
important that every citizen has access to the ballot box. And the point
that he made Ed, it should not be about the size of our wallet, but the
power of our vote to expand this democracy that every citizen should have
the right, and third, access to the ballot box.

SCHULTZ: While this bipartisan legislation at Congress right now that
they`re trying to strengthen the Voting Rights Act and amending this
section that was struck down by the Supreme Court, do you think that this
is genuine, that this is going to work?

TURNER: I think it is genuine now that the will of the Congress though is
what is going to be in question. I mean, certainly, they did not
necessarily do a voter I.D. which for some of us, that is problematic.
However, I think, both congressmen wanted to put something on the table
that hopefully, it can get some bipartisan support. And I hope, as the
process goes on, we can continue to build.

SCHULTZ: Well, voter I.D. is a big part of the whole thing. I mean,
you`ve got a number of states around the country.

TURNER: Including Ohio.

SCHULTZ: . that simply do not have, you know, people registered the way
the conservatives want them register.

TURNER: Right.

SCHULTZ: . the voter I.D., you know, and getting it, that really
disparages low income in minorities, is that right?

TURNER: Oh yeah, absolutely. Elderly folks, as well. I mean, we have, in
Ohio for example, 900,000 people. If there were strict voter I.D. in the
state of Ohio, do not have those records of IDs, they are in extension of a
poll tax in a way. If people have to pay for birth certificates and other
proof to even try to get those IDs, again, we should be expanding and
protecting the right to vote. But across this country, they are elected
officials. And their GOP -- let`s be honest, people talk about bipartisan.
No, we`re not being a partisan. It is the Republican Party from the
Congress to states across this country. They are trying to suppress the
right to vote. And it is undemocratic. It is un-American to do it. And
so all of us have to stand up and fight against this.

So yes, I would have like to have seen some voter I.D. fixed. But when a
bill has introduces the beginning of a process and not the end, and that is
why I`m still going to keep hope alive.

SCHULTZ: When the president got reelected, he mentioned on the night when
he came out on election night.


SCHULTZ: . we got to do something about these voting lines.

TURNER: Yes, he did.

SCHULTZ: What do you make of that? Where are we now?

TURNER: I think it`s strong -- his lines. Commission that put out the
report talked about have no one should have to wait in line to vote for
more than 30 minutes. We`re going to need the Congress also to put more
money. We need national money to make sure the states have what they need,
make sure that we have the right machines in the right places, make sure
that we have early voting available. Early voting does a lot to curve long
lines on election.

SCHULTZ: That`s not what your Secretary Of State thinks in Ohio.

TURNER: Oh no.

SCHULTZ: I mean, Husted has cut early voting, correct?

TURNER: Yes. Yes, he has.

SCHULTZ: And the voter I.D., correct, is also been.

TURNER: Well, the legislature.


TURNER: . is pushing strict voter I.D. Yes.

SCHULTZ: OK. But in regards to voting rights in your state, Secretary
State Jon Husted has defended his record.


SCHULTZ: I mean, he says it`s a balance between making it easy to vote and
hard to cheat. What`s your reaction to that?

TURNER: See, that`s a dog whistle, OK, because his so called notion of
hard to cheat, this whole notion of in person voter fraud. Again, Brennan
-- senator -- more likelihood to be struck by lighting than anybody to come
into a poll in place to impersonate somebody.

Less than 1 percent of 1 percent in the State of Ohio, incidences of voter
fraud. Again, he is trying to change his record. This is the same man
that fired board of election members in Hamilton County for the crime of
trying to increase early voting opportunities, the same man that appealed
all the way to United States Supreme Court to take away the last three days
of early voting, and the same man, Ed, when he sat on the portion at Board,
he had the very opportunity decide with the people, but in a vote that
rigged the system, he sided with his party.

So he`s trying to recreate himself because it`s an election.

SCHULTZ: And John Kasich, has he injected himself for this process with
commentary or a position on where he is?

TURNER: I mean, the governor has been silent on this which is.

SCHULTZ: And silent on the number of machines that are going to be placed
on counties around the state?

TURNER: Well, he signed that bill that allows.

SCHULTZ: He did sign.

TURNER: .. certain boards of the last.

SCHULTZ: I knew the last time we talked we were talking about.

TURNER: Right. It had not been.

SCHULTZ: So there`s going to be fewer machines in certain.

TURNER: In certain counties.


TURNER: Absolutely. Which could be a repeat. As you remember, in 2004,
we had lots of long lines. People waiting 11 hours in some counties to be
able to get the right to vote and we are going backwards. And again, there
is a correlation between the ballot box and the bread box. I know you`ve
been talking a lot about income inequality and whether or not people have
fair wages, minimum wage being increased.


TURNER: We have got to get people out to vote for the types of people who
are going to make sure that women have equal pay. The types of people who
are going to fight to make sure that women have access to high quality of
health care. The types of people who are going to make sure that we
educate our children so that where their zip code is doesn`t determined
their type of education that they have. And also, the types of elected
official who understand that the greatest equalizer that we have is the
ballot box. How can we argue about that?

SCHULTZ: All right. State Senator Nina Turner, great to have you with us
tonight. Thanks so much.

Coming up, early polling shows Hillary Clinton has a commending lead to
become the Democratic candidate for commander-in-chief if she wants it.
Still ahead, actions speak louder than words when implementing the
Affordable Care Act. President Obama praised Kentucky Governor Steve
Beshear for leading the charge. I`ll speak with the governor coming up.

But next, it`s your questions. Ask Ed Live on the Ed Show here on MSNBC.
We`ll be right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Love hearing from our viewers.
Love the questions in our Ask Ed Live segment.

Our first question comes from Sarah. She wants to know, "Do you think
Harry Reid will stick to his guns on TPP?"

Yes, I do. I do not think Harry is going to change his opinion on fast
track and TPP at all.

Our next question comes from Richard, he wants to know "If athletes can
form a union, why not music students, law students, or med students? Do
they not make money for the college?"

Let`s cut right to the chase. They don`t make as much money as the
athletes do and believe me it`s all about the money. But it`s not about
just forming a union as it is about protections.

I don`t know if the law students or the med students or even the music
students get injured in class. I don`t think that they walk out with bad
knees and shoulders and maybe concussions at the end of their career. And
their funding is a lot different from an athlete`s funding. They get a
one-year deal. Some of these students get four-year scholarships. OK?

So the bottom line is these type of students simply are so terribly
important for the university that a lot of what is generated on the
athletic field goes to fund medical research, goes to fund all of these
programs that simply are not revenue producers. Don`t mean to sound harsh,
but that is the stark reality of it all.

Stick around, Rapid Response Panel coming up next.

Market Wrap.

Stocks staged a rally thanks to strong economic growth. The Dow surges 109
points, the S and P up 20, the NASDAQ jumped 71.

Robust consumer spending helped GDP grow at a 3.2 percent annual rate in
the fourth quarter spending less up more than 3 percent during that period.

Meanwhile, jobless claims rose more than expected last week and Amazon
shares are falling hard after hours. Earnings, revenue, and future
guidance disappointed.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show.

Anyone on the left who`s resistant to a Clinton coronation needs to take a
real serious look at the numbers early on. Because it looks like the
Democrats could be heading that way.

Now, according to the latest Washington Post ABC News poll, Hillary Clinton
holds a commanding advantage that would be commanding. The polls call it
the largest lead recorded in an early primary match up in at least 30 years
of post ABC polling. Wow. That`s a mouthful.

Clinton has a 58 percent favorability rating. This is almost unheard of,
of a scenario with a non incumbent. And I mean of course she has the
resume and she has the name recognition, the connections, the experience,
and according to the latest numbers she has a 61 point lead among

If the 2016 Democratic primary were held today, Clinton would have 73
percent of Democrats on her side. Clinton has a six to one lead over, you
know, a really good guy, Vice President Joe Biden. Biden stands at 12

It`s not just Clintons to lose among Democrats. If the 2016 general
election were held today, 53 percent of Americans say that they would vote
for Hillary. Giving her a 12-point lead over and battle Republican
Governor Chris Christie.

Obviously, we`re still two years out and the Republicans are still looking
for serious contender that can hang in there but Democrats seem to be
getting a head start no question about it. Hillary Clinton hasn`t declared
whether she`s running. And she`s already putting up big numbers and has
the support of the top Democratic super PACS. But what does it all mean?

Joining me now for our Rapid Response Panel Karen Finney Host of Disrupt
here on MSNBC on the weekends and also Former Senator Byron Dorgan of North
Dakota. Great to have both of you with us.

Karen, let me ask you first, what do you make of these numbers? How can
she not run? It`s almost a calling with these kind of numbers?

KAREN FINNEY, DISRUPT SHOW HOST: Because I think she`s -- if she -- when
she decides. I think she`s not going to pay attention necessarily to these
numbers because she knows as well and I`m sure the senator will agree with
this. The day she announces, it`s a totally new game, right?

Now, if people like the idea but they don`t have to deal with the reality
of what that -- of what her candidacy would actually be. And then you
start to have to talk about issues and that`s when -- and plus, we also
know that they`re going to throw everything in the book at her. I think
for a lot of voters they`ve already made up their minds on that. But how
she builds a campaign that deal with all of that. I mean if there`s going
to be a campaign.

SCHULTZ: All right, about the number. Senator Dorgan, in your career, you
always polled very well. It was always an uphill battle to try to defeat
you for your house seat and then many years in the Senate. You know what
it`s like to run a campaign with a big lead well into the double digits
ahead of your opponent. I may say in some words of 25 percentage points
ahead of your opponent. What would be your advice to Hillary Clinton?

FMR. SEN. BYRON DORGAN, (D) NORTH DAKOTA: Well first of all, you know,
it`s a long ways to the elections. But these are very positive numbers. I
mean really very positive numbers.

And, you know, Hillary understands politics. I`ve known her for a long
time. I worked with her eight years in the US Senate, you know, watched
her carefully and worked with her closely as a Secretary of State. You
know, she`s very talented. And I hope she runs. And when she runs, she`ll
be our nominee on the Democratic side. And I think she is going to be the
first woman to win the presidency of the United States which is a big, big
deal for our country.

SCHULTZ: Senator, do you think there`s anybody in the Democratic camp that
could mount the charge against the infrastructure that they have?

DORGAN: No I don`t, you know, the important question at this point is,
what`s the basis on which Hillary will make a decision and when will she
make the decision.

In all the -- and everything out there suggest that kind of this is the way
it`s heading. But we won`t know for sure, until she announces. And my
hope is that she will do that, I would love to campaign with her and
support her. And again I think she`s someone of vast talents and I --
these numbers, it`s early but they are very positive numbers. And I think
for a good reason, the American people see her as someone that`s a very,
very talented potential president.

SCHULTZ: And, Karen, what about the money? I mean .


SCHULTZ: . this super PAC coming out this early. Yeah, we`re a long way
from but that`s a heck of a commitment, they`re raising money on her

FINNEY: Yeah, absolutely. Look, I think raising money is not going to be
an issue for Former Secretary of State Clinton. I think she`s going to --
she`s already raising money, they`re ready for Hillary. I mean people are
looking for ways to give that she`s actually not officially even associated

Here`s what concerns me though, Ed, and, you know, I worked for Mrs.
Clinton in the White House and also did her first Senate campaign here in
New York.

One of the things that was so important in that first campaign in New York
in her Senate race. It was not a foregone conclusion that she would win.
She worked so hard and part of what people we`re impressed by was how hard
she was working. I don`t like these numbers and I don`t like this
narrative of inevitability because I believe she will work very hard, but I
don`t want that sort of inevitability mantra to overwhelm the fact that
this is a woman who will work incredibly hard on the campaign and doesn`t
take anything for granted.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Well, Senator Dorgan, do you think that there could be an
absence of debate? There`s some pretty tough Progressives out there,
organizations that could arguably say they`re easily left of Hillary and
they want their issues out there, will there be a vetting of those if
there`s a coronation?

DORGAN: Well, you know, Hillary Clinton`s very experienced, you know,
she`s been through Senate races and she`s been through a presidential race,
you know, at least a nomination side of it. And I don`t think she`s going
to take anything for granted. You know, there will be in our party as --
is always the case Democrats will want to have this conversation. We want
to vet any candidate including Hillary Clinton.


DORGAN: But she`s very experienced and, you know, she`ll do fine.

SCHULTZ: Well in 2008 was the last time she ran. Now, I guess and I have
to say, I`d like to reintroduced to Hillary Clinton where does she stand on
immigration? Is she going to go around too on healthcare? Is she for
Universal Healthcare? Where does she stand on worker`s rights? The
employee free choice act, I mean there`s a lot of important stuff. And
it`s a lot tougher today on the middle class than it was back in 2008. So
would this be somewhat of a different campaign in your opinion, Senator?

DORGAN: Well, you know, she will have to take positions on all of those
issues. I mean no one holds up the platter and says, "Here`s you


DORGAN: Hillary knows that. But the fact is, she will go out and campaign
hard and she`ll take positions on all of these issues. So, that the
Democrats who come to convention and decide to nominate will have the
capability of understanding exactly .


DORGAN: . who they`re nominating.

SCHULTZ: The Washington Post ABC News poll has Paul Ryan leading among
Republicans. Could he be the one to chip away at Hillary`s lead? I mean
you`ve Paul Ryan at 20 percent, Jeb Bush at 18, he says he won`t say
anything about the race until later on in the year obviously. Chris
Christie has fallen at 13 percent. Does this, you know, Karen, what do you
make of this?

FINNEY: I would love to see a debate between Hillary Clinton and anyone
of those men because I think I know who would win. I mean I don`t know, do
I think Paul Ryan takes away from Hillary Clinton? I don`t and I think,
you know, again once it becomes a reality, who the candidates really are
and you have the opportunity to do exactly what you`re saying. You get
reintroduced, you see where they are in positions. How is Paul Ryan going
to make an argument for the middle class in this country given the budget
that he`s proposed .


FINNEY: . time and time again.

SCHULTZ: Well let`s go back, Senator, to 2008 everybody thought it was
going to be Hillary back then. And then this guy Barack Obama showed up,
and he got a lot of grassroot support. Does this -- this early numbers,
this early sup PAC coming out in Hillary`s favor does this discourage other
Democrats from jumping in the ring?

DORGAN: Well, I suspect the others would be discouraged but I -- my guess
is that if Hillary decides, "I`m in this and I`m going to run in this
campaign." I don`t think there will be a serious challenge. But again,
you know, look, you talk about the middle class, middle class Americans
want answers, I mean .


DORGAN: . they`ve got some difficult times that they`ve been living
through. And they want answers from candidates and that includes answers
from the candidate Clinton. But I think that she will, you know, she`s
learned a lot that last campaign I`m certain. And I think she`s ready to
be president and will be a terrific president for this country.

SCHULTZ: All right, Karen, who would you like to see Hillary go against if
that`s the one of the list of the Republicans you saw up there?

FINNEY: Ted Cruz, that would just be too much .

SCHULTZ: You`re just looking for entertainment .

FINNEY: Of course. That`s what we do.

DORGAN: Ed, I have the ticket.

SCHULTZ: OK, you have the ticket.

DORGAN: Yeah. Republicans, they need to -- they need to run this ticket.
Trump and Palin.

SCHULTZ: Trump and Palin.

DORGAN: That`s my pick for the Republican side.

SCHULTZ: You don`t even want it to be fair, Senator Dorgan.


SCHULTZ: I`ll take it though. That`ll be good for cable no question about

Karen Finney, Byron Dorgan great to have you with us tonight. I appreciate

DORGAN: Thanks, Ed. Good to be with you.

Coming up, Kentucky Governor Steve Beshear joins us live with more
Obamacare success stories. How about that? Stay with us.


SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, we`re going to the dogs.

You know, in this partisan world, there really is one thing we can agree
on, they are so cute. They Puppy Ball Live Camera broadcasting on Animal
Planet`s website is highly addictive. This weekend, the fur`s going to


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know who`s going to win. Who cares? This is
one of those things in sports within in our business that you look forward
to all year long.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is unbelievable. Right in tacos (ph). An
incredible run.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: They`re fans are feeling it as much as the team right

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He could go. He`s got one man to beat. Touch down,
his third touchdown on the day.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: And we got an offensive foul on Ferguson.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Every year, somebody hits the shot that brings some
tremendous emotion into your living room.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: Another touchdown pass for 56 yards out.


SCHULTZ: Well, I guess, he could say my old time play by play has just
gone to the dogs, but it was fun while it lasted.

Yup, that`s right. This is your second dose of Puppy Bowl for this show.
But don`t get hot under the collar. If you believe you can get a Puppy
Bowl, you can keep on pretending.


SCHULTZ: Welcome to the Ed Show. This is a story for the folks who take a
shower after work who now have insurance.

The tides have changed and the negative waves about Obamacare really have
never reached our shores as predicted by the right.

At the end of the summer, it was hard to avoid all the doom and gloom
stories about people losing their doctor, not seeing their doctor, or
wanting to keep their junk plans.

Here on the Ed Show, we cut it right through to this information aligns
about Obamacare and clearly explained why this law is good for the country.

On Tuesday night, President Obama listed the unquestionable benefits of the
law and scolded Republican efforts to repeal it. He praised Kentucky
Governor Steve Beshear for implementing the health care law in his state.


OBAMA: I do not expect to convince my Republican friends on the merits of
this law. But, I know that the American people are not interested in
refighting old battles.

We all owe it to the American people to say what we`re for, not just what
we`re against. And if you want to know the real impact this law is having,
just talk to Governor Steve Beshear of Kentucky, who`s here tonight. He`s
like a man possessed when it comes to covering his commonwealth`s families.
Steve`s right. That`s why, tonight, I ask every American who knows someone
without health insurance to help them get covered by March 31st.


SCHULTZ: The power of positivity prevails. Kentucky Governor Steve
Beshear joins me tonight here on the Ed Show.

Governor, good to have you with us. Congratulations on doing what you did.
You have been very aggressive from the start on this.

You`ve been a believer in Obamacare since day one. The senator from your
state, Mitch McConnell, has been trying to obstruct it all along. Here`s
what he said before the president`s State of the Union address on Tuesday.
Here it is.


million Kentuckians lost their plans they had and presumably wanted to keep
-- despite the President`s promises to the contrary.


SCHULTZ: Governor, what`s your reaction to that?

GOV. STEVE BESHEAR, (D) KENTUCKY: Well, Ed, you know, it`s the same old,
same old. They act like a broken record. They just repeating -- they keep
repeating, "It doesn`t work. It doesn`t work."

And, you know, the answer is pretty simple in Kentucky. Look at the
numbers. We got 188,000 people that have signed up for Affordable Health
Care in just four months. They started out signing up, Ed, at a rate of
about $1,000 -- 1,000 people a day. And that amazed us. We said, "You
know, that can`t last." Well, it didn`t last. Now, they`re signing up at
the rate of 1,500 people a day.

I mean, this thing is skyrocketing in Kentucky. There is a pinup demand
for affordable health coverage in Kentucky. Forty percent of the folks
that have signed up so far are under the age of 35. So this thing`s
working all the way around and it`s going to work all across America.

SCHULTZ: How do you avoid the negative noise from both Mitch McConnell and
Rand Paul in your home state on health care?

BESHEAR: Well, you know just have to ignore it because it`s like they`re
in an echo chamber they -- and so that they can keep listening to
themselves say over and over, "It`s not working. It`s not working." And,
you know, for the last 28 years or so, Senator McConnell has been up there
in the Senate, and he has yet to offer any kind of comprehensive plan that
would provide affordable health coverage for every Kentuckian.

The president finally did. He came out. He got one passed. It may not be
perfect but it has given me a tool to grab a hold of and go after 640,000
uninsured Kentuckians. And we`re going to make sure that for the first
time in history, every single Kentuckian is going to have affordable health
insurance. That`s going to be amazing for this state over the next

SCHULTZ: Governor, have you seen a reduction in the negative stories that
have been in the national news? What`s your perspective? I mean, you and
I had a visit about this several months ago. I believe it was back in
November and look where you are today and it just seems to me that all the
negative stories have pretty much evaporated.

BESHEAR: And I think that`s what you seen, Ed. And you know I said back
then when our system worked, our exchange worked, we`re the model for the
nation and everything else was kind of fumbling around. I said, "Folks,
everybody just take a deep breathe because this is going to work." You
know, we`ll get all this stuff ironed out. I`m proving that it works in
Kentucky. It`s going to work just like this every place sooner or later.

And look, this is too good to pass up. I mean when you can finally say
that in the United States of America, most Americans will be able to have
affordable health coverage. That`s a huge leap forward for our people and
it`s going to make such a huge difference long term.

So you`ve seen the stories now starting to decline and they`re moving on to
other things because, you know, if it`s not some crisis and some thing`s
not going wrong and you and I both know the news media is going to find
something else to talk about.

SCHULTZ: Well, is the story coming back to you? Those who lost their
insurance because their plan didn`t measure up to the federal standard that
they`re now back into the market.

BESHEAR: Sure. You know, these folks -- we had a number of people who had
these substandard policies.


BESHEAR: And, you know, they didn`t lose their insurance.

SCHULTZ: And that`s what McConnell`s talking about right there. He`s
talking about .

BESHEAR: That`s all he .

SCHULTZ: . people with substandard plans.

BESHEAR: That`s all he`s talking about and the plans didn`t meet the ten
essential benefits that the law requires.

And so, our insurance companies redid plans so that they do meet those
benefits. Those folks went on our exchange and looked at all of the
different plans that we had to offer. They`re all getting their own
insurance. So there -- it`s just a fallacy to say that everybody has lost
their insurance and .


BESHEAR: . you can`t get it back.

SCHULTZ: All right. Governor Steve Beshear, this is a great TV moment.
We`re being reminded by the grandfather clock in your living room that it`s
time to go. Great to .

BESHEAR: All right.

SCHULTZ: Great to you have you with us, Steve.

BESHEAR: Thanks for having us.

SCHULTZ: You bet. Thank you.

BESHEAR: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: And congratulations at Kentucky for what you`re doing.


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