THE ED SHOW
March 20, 2014
Guests: Kerry Walsch, Daniel Rose, Tom Bunn, Brian Schweitzer, Lee Fang
ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans and welcome to the Ed Show
live from New York. Let`s get to work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are following some breaking news out of coast of
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prime Minister Tony Abbott announced what could be a
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whitish object on or perhaps just under the surface
of the Indian Ocean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those parts could have moved any direction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An aircraft will find an object if it is findable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Retrieving those objects will not be easy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 17 days until the batteries on those underwater
locating pingers run out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the best possible lead they have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they can`t be certain that it`s part of this jet,
they can`t until they get down there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do they try to confirm that information?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The story is about the 239 souls onboard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have been following every single lead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Relatives are hanging on every word.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This time, I just hope that it is positive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight folks. Thanks for watching. We
begin the show tonight with the latest on the aircraft. There are new
developments in the search for the missing Malaysian airlines, flight
Australian officials say that they spotted two objects on satellite that
could be from the missing aircraft off the coast of Perth, Australia. At
this point, it`s still unknown if the objects are from the Boeing 777.
The search has been suspended overnight, but it`s expected to resume within
this hour. Now, one object is roughly 79 feet long, the other is 17 feet
long, picked up on satellite. Now, it`s really the best lead in the search
for the plane since it went missing 13 days ago.
Steve Handelsman of NBC news has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE HANDELSMAN, NBC NEWS: The theory of aviation investigators in
Washington seems to be validated. But they just revealed that four-day old
satellite images that appeared to show two big pieces of an airline are
floating on the Indian Ocean.
American experts calculated Malaysian Flight 370 took the southern route
after it turned. And the Boeing 777`s communications were purposely turned
The Malaysian government today called the photos a credible lead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It must be stressed that this sightings were credible
are still to be confirmed.
HANDELSMAN: And at first light, where it`s already Friday, Australian and
U.S. search teams head back out. The goal is to find floating pieces of
the airliner, calculate how far they drifted in the 12-day since Flight 370
disappeared and send probes to the ocean floor for the cockpit voice
recorder, the flight data recorder, and the main wreckage.
Investigator John Cox told me, "Recover them and the mystery will end."
JOHN COX, RETIRED AIRLINE CAPTAIN: I believe we`ll solve it. It will be
with the recorders. It will be with the wreckage, put it all together,
yes, I think we`ll solve it.
HANDELSMAN: The satellite images upset some Flight 370 family members.
But the mother of the American passenger Philip Wood says she`s clam.
SONDRA WOOD, MISSING PASSENGER`S MOTHER: Whatever it -- the end of this is
we have a deep faith in God and we`re -- we will be relieved to find out
HANDELSMAN: The first step could be locating the pieces of the plane, if
that`s what they are, floating in the vast Indian Ocean.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: You could just imagine the anguish the families are going to
through. Investigators were able to narrow satellite signals from the
plane creating two possible search paths. The new search area is roughly
1500 miles southwest of Perth, Australia. It`s out there.
Four military aircraft and Australian navy ship and a Norwegian car
carrying trader have been dispatched to the area. The aircraft consists of
two P-3 Orion surveillance planes, a United States P-8 Poseidon
intelligence plane, and a C-130 Hercules that will drop buoys down into the
water onto the ocean to track the currents of the water.
Now, the Norwegian vessel Hoegh St. Petersburg was the first ship to arrive
on the scene. The ship is currently searching for that debris. And of
course, this area of the Southern Indian Ocean is extremely dangerous.
It`s deep, rough water, the search area depth ranges from 9800 feet to
16,000 feet. Almost amazing to think that we could be able to recover
something if this is the plane.
Last night, there were 10-foot seas in the area. Seas are expected to
increase to over 10 to 20 feet over the next day. If there are any new
developments, obviously, in this hour we will bring them to you.
But how do you feel about this? Get your cellphones out. I want to know
how you feel about what this latest development is. Do you believe this is
the plane? Text A for Yes, text B for No to 67622. You can always go to
our blog at ed.msnbc.com. We`ll bring you the results later on in this
I want to bring in Kerry Walsch at Global Diving and Salvage. Kerry, good
to have you with us tonight. I appreciate your time.
KERRY WALSCH, GLOBAL DIVING AND SALVAGE: You bet.
SCHULTZ: Give us an -- give us from your expertise, give us an idea of how
hard it is to retrieve something from the bottom of the ocean if we`re
dealing with depths beyond 10,000 feet.
WALSCH: Well Ed, you know, the very start of this is going to be locating
the debris. Assuming that this floating debris that they`ve spotted is in
fact from the airplane, and some of my peers have speculated that it`s not,
just based on the fuzzy images that we`ve seen. Some people think that it
may be ISO containers lost over port from a ship.
But, should approve to be true, of course, we`ll have to do a back track
and do the set and drift calculations to figure out where the debris
originated. Go back to that location. And probably, the basic tools that
will be used to locate it would be a side-scan sonar code from a ship. The
ship mend to operate 24 hours a day that would tow a distance off the
bottom with the search pattern, similar to the mowing a lawn going to back
and forth with the side scan.
Probably, taking swats (ph) a little bit less than one-kilometer wide
looking for the debris in real time. If they spot something on the bottom,
they would turnaround and go back and get a closer look at it. Once that
debris is identified, then they would have to come up with the plan for
recovery, based on what they found.
SCHULTZ: And that of course in 10 to 20 foot seas would be awfully tough
to do. Give us an idea of how hard it is operating on those conditions.
WALSCH: Well, the side-scan sonar wouldn`t be very hard at all. It will
just be a matter of hanging on and putting up with the sea sec (ph) crew, I
guess. But the side scan would be deep underwater and under code array, so
it would be stable underwater. The crew would be watching the monitors
looking for things.
Now, once it was located and you saw the debris field and the spread of the
debris and the pieces and sizes that have to be recovered, you would go
back to the drawing board and come up with a plan and assemble the
resources that you would need to do that correctly and expeditiously.
SCHULTZ: Well, 1500 miles offshore, if this is the aircraft, what do you
think the chances of recovering the black box would be? Would a camera go
down there to give you an idea what you`re dealing with?
WALSCH: Yeah. I think once you`ve located the debris field, the next step
would be to send out a remote operative vehicle, ROV, with the capability
with high resolution cameras, low-light cameras, lots of lights,
manipulators and be able to go in and move things around. Depending again
on entirely on what they found and what the sizes of the debris would be.
You could probably go in and dissect that thing with ROV and recover the
SCHULTZ: So you feel -- and I don`t want to put words in your mouth, but
how confident do you feel that if the debris field is found on the bottom
of the ocean that the black box would be recovered?
WALSCH: I think that if they find the debris field that the box will be
recovered for sure. With the tools that we have available on our toolkits
in salvage (ph), we`re pretty confident that you are going to be able to go
down and recover the black box and the airplane itself.
SCHULTZ: I know it`s hard to speculate, so much of this is speculation in
trying to figure out exactly what happened and that`s the fascination of it
all. Do you think this is the plane? And I know it`s hard to come to
render any kind of judgment of a couple of satellite images.
WALSCH: I really don`t know. I think that it`s interesting that it tracks
with the projected NTSB flight paths. But it also -- these images were
taken days ago, so you`d have to do a set and drift calculation to see
where they actually would have impacted and begun their drift pattern based
on the timing.
So, I think it`s really speculative at this point. I don`t -- I really
don`t know, I hope it is.
SCHULTZ: The other thing about this drift patterns that you`re talking
about, can you get it down into a narrow area and how precise can that be
when you get information on the drift patterns?
WALSCH: Well, I think that with the tools we have, the satellite images
and the data buoys that are out there, and I`m not really that familiar
with the Roaring Forties, but the set and drift information should be
backward traceable to put it into a pretty close area, I would assume.
SCHULTZ: OK. Kerry Walsch, I appreciate your time tonight. Thanks for
joining us on the Ed Show.
WALSCH: You bet.
SCHULTZ: Now, let`s turn to Military Trained Pilot and Aviation Attorney,
Daniel Rose, and also Retired Airline Captain Tom Bunn, author of "Soar:
The Breakthrough Treatment for Fear of Flying." Gentlemen, great to have
you with us tonight.
Mr. Rose, your assessment of today`s developments?
DANIEL ROSE, MILITARY TRAINED PILOT: Well, you know, unfortunately, I
think it still leaves us in pretty much the same place we were yesterday.
And that is, you know, even assuming that you have located parts of the
plane, that`s not a dispositive fact of anything. Ultimately, what we want
to know is what caused this crash -- where is the plane, what caused the
crash. And it certainly be great if it turned out to be part of the plane
first and foremost to the family.
I think they start to have some kind of closure. I mean, this is, as you
pointed out, just a terrible, horrific, and anguishing event, but it will
lead, you know, certainly eliminate the hijacking, the plane is located
somewhere in a secret base, someone can be used again, that would be out of
the picture, and it would help us locate the plane and get to the bottom of
what happened. But, the part itself, I don`t think -- assuming it is part
of the aircraft is really going to help us understand whether it`s
deliberate or mechanical.
SCHULTZ: Captain Bunn, let`s assume that this is the aircraft, it would
lead me to believe that the pilot were incapacitated, that is aircraft
would fly so long or it would be a highly unusual suicide mission.
TOM BUNN, FMR. BOEING 767 CAPTAIN: It strikes me very hard to believe that
if someone was going to suicide, they would have that joy ride like that.
In the times, I think, what two times we`ve had, pilot suicides, that was
not the case, it happened pretty quickly.
SCHULTZ: Do you have any reservation about whether the aircraft could have
flown that far with the fuel that it had to your knowledge?
BUNN: Well, yeah. The plane could fly that far. That`s not a problem.
What the question is, is of course, did we come up with the right place to
look? And that still is not completely clear.
SCHULTZ: If this is not the plane, where is that leave us, you think?
Back to square one?
BUNN: Yeah. Just that -- they now just said, we`re back to square one.
SCHULTZ: Daniel, your thoughts if this is not part of the debris field.
ROSE: Yeah, clearly. I mean, you know, I think there`s a reason we`re
looking down south. It seems to make more sense. You have the turn back
towards the south, you know, assuming it`s some kind of incapacitation
whether mechanically or deliberately induced, you have to assume the plane
in all likelihood continued on that path, combined with the fact that
nobody seen it up north, no radars apparently have tracked it up north, you
know, you got to look in that area, but that`s a big part of the world.
There`s a lot of water there.
SCHULTZ: What about the durability and longevity of the black box?
There`s been a lot of speculation about exactly what would be collected on
this black box and its survivability and what you could actually get out of
it? Is there a life expectancy to what we can get out of the black box?
ROSE: Well, first and foremost, there`s a life expectancy as to the
pingers onboard. It`s going to help us find it. That`s about 30 days.
But, the next life expectancy or the timeline you got to deal with this,
the fact that the cockpit voice recorder is only going to record, you know,
half an hour back which is probably not going to give us a whole lot of
insight into what happened, you know, four or five hours earlier. And the
DFDR, the flight data recorder, that`s the other black box, is also limited
in what it`s going to record time wise.
So, you know, I think -- I don`t suspect that must to take years and years
to find it that you`re going to have the actual data compromised, but the
real question is, once you pull that data up, how useful is it going to be
and actually figuring it out what happened. It will be the best evidence
we have but maybe limited.
SCHULTZ: Tom, what about the ELT?
DUNN: Yeah. Well, we haven`t heard anything from the ELT. If the ELT
gets dropped to the water, it`s supposed to start up, but if it`s not ...
SCHULTZ: That`s an electronic ...
SCHULTZ: ... locating transmitter.
SCHULTZ: So, when there`s an impact to the aircraft, the ELT engages and
sends off for signal.
DUNN: But we didn`t get it and that`s the other thing that`s why this
thing is such a mystery.
SCHULTZ: Well, this is something that hasn`t been discussed. The ELT,
this is in every aircraft and when there is an abrupt stoppage of the
fuselage by FAA requirement, every plane has to have an ELT. How
sophisticated it is the ELT on this aircraft and what does it tell you if
we never got an ELT signal?
DUNN: I don`t know. It seems to me that if you -- if the plane hit the
water and the ELT was free enough that it could activate and the
transmitter antenna would get the signal out there, it should work. But,
why it -- once again, this is now the thing, we don`t know why the ELT is
not giving up that signal that other airplanes could pick up.
SCHULTZ: And to my knowledge, the ELT cannot be disarmed or disabled by
BUNN: That`s a separate -- it`s a separate self-contained unit.
SCHULTZ: That is the mystery, I think, of a lot of this. Daniel, what do
ROSE: No. I agree. Again you have to remember, I mean, it`s like any
other device, it has a limited range. You cant -- you`re not going to hear
it everywhere. And we`re in a pretty remote part of the world.
SCHULTZ: But if you`ve got a Poseidon over there an intelligence aircraft
and it`s in the area and that ELT, would it still be going after two weeks?
ROSE: Right. Well maybe, I mean the other point is maybe the impact with
the water was not that abrupt.
ROSE: And maybe it, you know, it was a glide in the main control, but even
if it wasn`t, even if it was just somewhat of a glide in, it may not have
SCHULTZ: OK, Daniel Rose and Tom Bunn, great to have you gentlemen with us
tonight. Thank so much.
Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen.
Share your thoughts with us on Twitter @EdShow and on Facebook. We want to
know what you think.
Coming up, in American cities where manufacturing provides the economy`s
backbone, bad trade deals can have huge consequences. In Lorain, Ohio when
the steel industry suffers, the entire community braces for the impact.
More from our series, "Fighting Chance: American Steel," still ahead.
But first, John Boehner rejects the Senate`s plan for extending
unemployment insurance. Brian Schweitzer joins me next, stay with us.
SCHULTZ: Time now for the Trenders social media action. This is where you
can keep up with us and thanks for doing it. Facebook.com/edshow,
twitter.com/edshow and ed.msnbc.com. On the radio, Monday through Friday,
noon to 3 PM on Channel 127 Sirius XM. You can get my radio podcast at
The Ed Show social media nation has decided. We`re reporting. Here are
today`s top Trenders voted on by you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That mad man is headed straight for the black hole.
What do we do?
SCHULTZ: The number three trender, the whole story.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: What if it was something fully that we don`t really
HOMER SIMPSON, "THE SIMPSON" CHARACTER: I don`t get it.
LEMON: Noha says, "What else can you think about black hole? Bermuda
ANN WEHRLE, OBSERVATIONAL ASTRONOMER: A black hole is a region in space
where matters infinitely condensed.
SCHULTZ: The latest Malaysia airplane theory is full of holes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know it`s preposterous.
JACKIE CHILES, "SEINFELD" CHARACTER: It`s outrageous, egregious,
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it`s preposterous.
MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION: A small black hole will suck in our entire universe, so we
know it`s not that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got a better idea?
SCHIAVO: I think it`s wonderful that the whole world is trying to help
with their theories.
SCHULTZ: The number two trender, pick perfect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: March madness, an American distraction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bracket is a bunch of lines that all kind of come
together in the middle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking the lines is up in the edge this year with the
Quicken Loans` Billion Dollar Bracket Challenge. Warren Buffett is backing
SCHULTZ: Warren Buffett offers a big reward for the perfect March madness
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn`t have to make a calculations to probability
and there`s no right answer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think he`s gotten his position in life by
making foolish risks and this isn`t one of them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The billion dollars for the perfect bracket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, if they won, what would happen?
BARACK OBAMA, 44TH AND CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:
I`m sure somebody would ask me to pay them more to federal bet.
WARREN BUFFETT, AMERICAN BUSINESS MAGNATE, INVESTOR, AND PHILANTHROPIST:
Nobody really knows the odds but it could be done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing but net.
SCHULTZ: And today`s top trender, unimpressed.
AHMED SHIHAB-ELDIN, HUFFPOST LIVE HOST: House Republicans have undermined
unemployment benefit yet again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the House Republicans have painted themselves
into the far extreme.
SHIHAB-ELDIN: House Speaker John Boehner turned down Senate legislation to
extend unemployment benefits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obstruction trumps sound economic policy.
SCHULTZ: John Boehner says the Senate unemployment compromise will not
pass in the House.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Each week, 70,000 more lose their benefits.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Failing to extend unemployment insurance is hurting
families, it`s hurting businesses, it`s hurting our communities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Before the end of the year, it will be millions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s getting to the point of almost scandalous,
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight, Brian Schweitzer, former governor of Montana
and an MSNBC contributor. Governor, good to have you with us tonight.
It just seems to me that the Republicans have made the calculation that
there`s a certain amount of Americans that they can leave behind and not
even worry about losing the House. What else is it?
FMR. GOV. BRIAN SCHWEITZER, (D) MONTANA: Well, they assume they`re not
going to go to the polls or they assumed that they have so successfully
gerrymandered America, so that they are in safe districts.
What they want to do is they want to give tax breaks to the largest
corporations in America, the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance
companies, let them outsource all of their income, not pay taxes. But if
you put money in the pocket of somebody who`s lost their jobs that`s
looking for a new job, that money makes to Main Street that same day. So,
I don`t think they`re making good business decisions right now.
SCHULTZ: But, are they making decisions that are going to comeback and
politically hurt them? They act so brazen about it. It`s like they made
the calculation. We don`t have to, you know, raise a minimum wage. We
don`t have to help about the long term unemployed in this country. We`re
going to be OK. I mean, this is -- it`s really historical how brazen
they`re being on the unemployed in this country.
SCHWEITZER: 90 percent of these House members will get reelected because
the Republican or Democrat in their own district or unless somebody runs
against them in the primary, 90 percent.
And so, all they`ve got to do is to go out and shake the trees from the
pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies. Get more money than
their opponent and they will get reelected and they could give a damn about
SCHULTZ: So what is Boehner thinking then?
SCHWEITZER: He`s thinking he gets to be Speaker of the House if he can
hold on to the numbers so that he keeps enough Congressman who are
Republicans to revote for him to be speaker and that`s all he cares about,
is his job. He doesn`t give a damn about America`s jobs.
SCHULTZ: So, it`s not about the budget?
SCHWEITZER: No. If it was about the budget, they would look at ways of
cutting defense spending. They would challenge the pharmaceutical
companies and buy a medicine at a market rate. It`s not about the budget,
it`s about getting enough money to get reelected.
SCHULTZ: All right. Let`s talk about the Democrats possibly getting the
House. There seems to be a narrative out there that it`s impossible,
there`s no way you can have it. Do you think the Democrats can win the
SCHWEITZER: Well, they can. But, you know, they have to message
healthcare. The Republicans are in a situation where they`re saying, "We
ain`t going to do a damn thing. We`re not going to change anything". So
that`s means they`re for status quo.
Ask big business and small business in America, if they can compete in
manufacturing when the rest of the world is paying half as much for
healthcare. We pay 18 percent of our GDP, the rest of the world is paying
around 11 percent. So we have a disadvantage. So when the Republican say,
"We`re not going to change anything, we`re not going to take some money
from the insurance companies. We`re not going to challenge the
pharmaceutical companies to sell medicine at a world price."
And further more, let`s just ask him, you mean, you thought it was OK to
charge women a higher premium like we do in more than 40 states for their
health insurance than you do men? And those old white guys in Congress,
they had just looked at each other and say, "Damn right. We`re going to
charge women more." But this law says you can`t charge a woman more
because she can be a mother.
SCHULTZ: So, have the Democrats not figured out how to package this into a
communication narrative that will deliver them the votes that they`re going
to need? Look, I mean the good outweighs the bad, clearly.
SCHWEITZER: Absolutely. Look, you say, you have a sister, you have an
aunt, you have a mother, and they all paid higher premiums under the
Republican plan. Do you want to go back to that one? Just because the
Republicans say yes, but those women, they could be mothers. And if
they`re mothers, well, it`s going to cost more for their healthcare. So
that means they are against motherhood and for insurance companies, I like
SCHULTZ: OK. The Democrats seem to be fixated on this platform that,
"Well, I`m going to go to Washington and fix it." They keep talking about
the fix, which I think emboldens all the votes that Boehner has taken in
the House to get rid of Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act.
What about -- should a candidate say on the road, "I`m going to help fix
it." There`s a million things out there that you could fix. Why? Because
this is such a generational move and positive for American families, why
get hoodwinked into talking about the fix?
SCHWEITZER: Elections are always about the future. So it doesn`t matter
whether it`s the war in Afghanistan or whether it`s healthcare. If you`re
running for office, you need to look the people in the face and say, "I`m
going to fix some of these problems."
The healthcare law that we just passed, it`s not perfect and I`m going to
help make it better. I don`t think that`s talking about the fix, I think
that`s saying we`re going to improve it, just like we`re going to improve
the number of jobs that we have in America, just like we`re going to
improve the safety net if we get rid of the Republicans and we can take
care of people who lose their jobs.
SCHULTZ: All right. Let`s talk about who`s going to be the nominee in
2016. Let`s just assume that Hillary Clinton is going to run. What kind
of campaign or what kind of challenge would have to be mounted to defeat
her for the nomination? And I think it would have to somewhat of an
unconventional campaign, throw the calendar away and get after it early on,
that probably your best shot. Your thoughts on the Clinton Machine?
SCHWEITZER: Well, it looks to me like the Republican Party is a circus
with no elephants, no giraffes, not even anybody who can juggle, they`re
all clowns. So, you know, you`ve got to beat somebody with somebody and so
far we haven`t seen nobody.
SCHULTZ: OK. So, how would you attack the Clinton brand to be the
SCHWEITZER: Well, look, I think the question that we have is what does a
nominee bring for the future? Anybody who comes to an election talking
about the past is going to lose. And so, when American people are looking
to future, they`re looking for your ideas about what`s coming next, what --
not what was in the rearview mirror.
SCHULTZ: And this is the void that the Republicans have right now, they
can`t talk about the future.
SCHWEITZER: Well, they don`t want to talk about the future because the
people that have invested in them like the past.
SCHULTZ: OK. Brian Schweitzer, great to have you with us tonight, thanks
Coming up, bad trade deals don`t only impact workers in manufacturing in
the industry. Entire communities suffer when those jobs are shipped
overseas. More on this ripple effect in our series, "Fighting Chance:
And later, Chris Christie`s pension reform isn`t helping state workers at
all and retirees, but his head swan buddies, they seem to be profiting
Next, I`m taking your questions on Ask Ed Live on the Ed Show. Stay with
us. We`re right back.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We love hearing from our viewers.
Thanks so much for the questions in Ask Ed Live.
Our first question tonight comes from Tracy, "How about the House trying to
vote the national parks out next week?"
Yeah. Yeah, no more monuments, no more state parks, no more national parks
at all. The House is very concerned about President Obama developing
certain parks across the country.
So that`s what they want to take a vote on next week. We don`t have a jobs
bill, they have no plan for healthcare. Well you know the story. This is
an absolute 100 percent rip-off, they`re ripping your tax dollars off to do
garbage like this. And that`s exactly what this is, and I think it is
seeded in hate for the president.
Out next question is from Eve, she wants to know, "What do you think will
happen to the Affordable Care Act if we get a Republican Senate and House
Well, God forbid, but if it does happen I`m sure that they will vote to
repeal Obamacare. I would imagine that the Democrats would filibuster it.
But if it passes the House and the Senate, comes to the president, he`ll
veto it, I assume they won`t have enough votes for veto overwrite. And if
that all happens, healthcare again becomes the big issue in 2016.
Part four our series "Fighting Chance: American Steel" up next. Stay with
MORGAN BRENNAN, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Morgan Brennan with your CNBC
Optimism about the economy boosts stocks. The Dow jumps 108 points, the S
and P is up 11, and the NASDQ also adds 11 points.
The number of American filling for first time jobless benefits rose less
than expected last week, claims remain near a three month low.
The Philadelphia Fed has factory activity in the mid-Atlantic region
bounced back strongly after a tough winter.
And existing home sales fell slightly last month that`s according to the
National Association of Realtors.
That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed show.
When elected officials talk about the middle class, you have to wonder if
they really know what the heck they`re talking about. If you spend time in
a community like Lorain, Ohio you get a sense they have no clue what
they`re talking about.
You know, behind all the political rhetoric there are real people that had
real lives. Do they know about that in Washington? You`ll meet them
tonight in part four of our series "Fighting Chance: American Steel".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE TRINIDAD, USAW 6787: In Indiana, my brother and sisters on a
particular plan that I work at but around the state that have been losing
their jobs and that are laid off also.
SCHULTZ: When the manufacturing sector like the steel industry suffers the
fallout of bad trade deals, it has far reaching effects.
TRINIDAD: Something as simple as going to get your haircut. You hear the
lady that the hairdresser says, "I hear there`s layout coming." And then
she hasn`t prepared because her business is going to go down. At the
restaurants, at the gas stations, it`s a decent paying living wages job
affects three to four people in the community, automatically, right away.
SCHULTZ: For the workers of Lorain, Ohio the unfair trade practices taking
place over 6,000 miles away in South Korea are being felt deep in the heart
STATE REP. MATT LUNDY, (D) OHIO: There no question. I think anytime that
there is a hiccup in the auto industry, anytime there`s a hiccup in the
steel industry, people get anxious. And when people get anxious and
there`s the anxiety about the future of their paycheck, they`re reluctant
to go out there and make those big purchases that are important for the
SCHULTZ: It`s all about the ripple effect. You can throw around numbers
like Lorain County`s 9.3 percent unemployment rate but these people are
much more than a statistic. Layoffs at the steel mill can jeopardize the
livelihood of the restaurant owner, the fire department or the local food
Mark, what`s the mill mean to your business?
MARK DISO, OWNER, DISO BISTRO: Well, being born and raised in this town it
means a lot. I`ve noticed the increase and the decrease in business when
the mill`s up or down. So it does me lot for my business.
SCHULTZ: What`s the mood of the people right now of all these global
economic pressures on the steel industry?
DISO: Little doubt, to be honest with you. (inaudible) like the little
shot of light back into that, if you will. Overall, it`s OK, but the mode
is little bit on the downside.
SCHULTZ: Even with the big investment that U.S. steel has made?
DISO: Well it`s -- now I`m starting to see a little surge coming back the
other direction. But that`s just all new on the table. So -- but right
now it`s starting to pick up a little bit. It`s a resilient town, that`s
for sure. We`re just trying to get by what we have anymore. And the steel
mills is one of the biggest industry this town it has and we need it.
SCHULTZ: And have the people change over the years?
DISO: Yes. Yeah. Yes.
SCHULTZ: How so?
DISO: A lot of the people that lived in Lorain have left Lorain. A lot of
the big churches in the area are no longer. We`re down to one high school
in the area. So the county has changed a lot since I`ve grown up.
SCHULTZ: What`s this mill mean to you and your family?
NICHOLAS TOURNAS, THREE START RESTAURANT: It`s meant the world to me and
my family. We`ve been there for over 40 years. So, I mean, you know, it`s
the lifeblood of the economy or was more or so back in the day than it is
today but we owe lots to the mill, you know, the entire city especially our
little restaurant right across the street there.
Today is not what it was back in the 80s, you know, you had a lot more
people working. There was a lot more money in the town, you know, there`s
been a lot of lay offs, you know, it`s not what it used be but we`re
hanging on. We`re one of the few. There`s a lot of the places that have
just shutdown and go on their way, you know, we get a lot of community
supports too thank god.
SCHULTZ: What do the workers say about the trade agreements and the
pressures that are on the global economy?
TOURNAS: A lot of the workers aren`t so happy, you know, with a lot of the
things. I mean, they`ve got steel coming in from outside the country, you
know. It`s not the quality steel that we`re making here in America but
they`re purchasing it lower and it`s costing, you know, a lot of jobs here,
you know, so.
SCHULTZ: So the guy that runs the caf, knows a lot about what the workers
are going through.
SCHULTZ: That how tight this community is.
TOURNAS: That`s right. That`s right. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody knows
everybody here. Yeah. Yeah. Small community.
JOHN YOUNGBERG, PLUMBERS AND STEELWORKERS, LOCAL 47: If there aren`t
people working in the mill, you know, the guy that you talked to over there
at Three Star, they aren`t constructional workers in the mills, people
going there for breakfast, for lunch, that`s going to hid (ph) into.
SCHULTZ: What`s that do to the closeness of the community?
YOUNGBERG: It tears us up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
YOUNGBERG: I mean, you can see even, you know, Lorain county as a whole
everything that we`ve lost, all the jobs in the steel mill, the auto plants
we`ve lost. It`s, you know, it just hurts everybody that lives here and
SCHULTZ: Yeah. And of course with services that you guys provide.
YOUNGBERG: Well ...
SCHULTZ: I mean, that`s your lifeblood too in the fire department.
MARK HORTON, PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTERS: But not only our members
lifeblood, it`s the community`s lifeblood. We have to provide those
services to the police, the fire, the central services, the snow plows that
are out there on the streets everyday. If these guys aren`t here, if those
U.S. steel isn`t making that commitment to the community, the community
suffers. The basic resources that we have are gone. Then you lay off fire
fighters, you lay off police officers, you lay off city workers, and the
quality of life for everyone in this county goes down. You give us a
dollar, we`re going to give that dollar back to the community.
I`m not going to put it in a offshore account or by a -- condone the
Bahamas. I`m not doing that. I`m going to dinner. I`m going to buy a
car. I`m going to do something. If you give that money to me, I`m going
to spend it here.
RALPH HUFFMAN, RETIRED STEELWORKER: And that`s why we still have efforts
that we`re making in Lorain, you know, and a lot of it is being voluntary
HUFFMAN: ... and are trying to get some funds. We`ve got the Bauer home
opening up to help veterans that had fallen to the cracks and trying to get
ahead in life.
SCHULTZ: The people of Lorain, Ohio are all in this together. It`s a
proud community tied to the successes and failures of the steel industry.
When we fail to support the American steelworkers, as a country, we`re
failing communities like Lorain, Ohio.
CHRIS MILLSAPS, LAID OFF STEELWORKER: This country is built on the
backbone of the middle class and the income that they`re looking forward to
having is not going to be there.
So eventually, as a country, we`re going to collapse because the amount of
money that we need to do the state programs and the state funding and the
local programs and the local funding and the by assault (ph) just to keep
our roads open isn`t going to be there because our employees aren`t working
to pay those taxes and you can`t tax people on what they don`t make.
PATRICK GALLAGHER, USW: The thing about our union is we stick together and
support each other when times are tough, when times are bad. We always
give contributions, we do gate collections things like that that support
members when we have a lot of lay offs and it`s been a tough time for us
here in Lorain with the shrinking of the industrial base but I`m very proud
of what they do here in the city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: So when you have a bad trade agreement and you allow countries to
cheat, it hurts those Americans.
So the big question is do politicians in Washington, elected officials,
really understand what they`re doing to American cities like Lorain, Ohio?
Does John Boehner really care? Does he care? I don`t think he does.
Ironically, he`s from Ohio. I don`t if he knows where Lorain is.
I want to tell you folks, there`s a lot of Lorain, Ohioans all across
America. And our manufacturing sector is taking a beating right now
because politicians in Washington are being cash whipped and they`re being
hoodwinked into trade deals and it`s a race to the bottom. So I don`t want
to hear any politician talk about how they`re for the middle class unless
they`re against every trade deal we have done. There has to be a level of
protectionism and that protectionism is just fair trade.
Tomorrow night I`ll show you what the people of Lorain really think of
Washington politicians and the way they`ve been sold out and kicked under
Coming up, what Domino`s Pizza and the Republican Party having common
according to Rand Paul.
Pretenders is next. Stick around.
SCHULTZ: And in Pretenders tonight, the pizza guy Rand Paul.
Now, a year ago, Reince Priebus announced a GOP overhaul that they had an
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: Focus groups described their party as
narrow-minded, out of touch, and "stuffy old men". The perception that
we`re the party of the rich unfortunately continues to grow. We know that
we have problems, we`ve identify them and we`re implementing the solutions
to fix them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Well, here`s whether Republicans are today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN.RAND PAUL, (R) KENTUCKY: Remember, Domino`s finally admitted they have
bad crust. Think Republican Party admit it, OK? Bad crust we need -- we
need a different kind of party. May then people would say, "You know what?
I always hated those Republicans and their crust sucks." But maybe there`s
some new Republicans, maybe there`ll be a new GOP.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Well, I believe it when I see it. There will never be a new GOP.
It`s not the crust the problem isn`t just at the edges. The party is
getting worse not better.
The Kentucky Senator may want to be the new Republican dough boy, but if
Rand Paul thinks he`s delivering a new fresh pizza party with a new party,
he can keep on pretending.
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed show this is the story for the folks who
take a shower after work. New Jersey governor Chris Christie campaign
donors are the one`s benefiting from his promise of pension reform.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Welcome back to the Ed Show. This is the story for the folks who
take a shower after work.
New Jersey Governor Chris Christie`s campaign donors are the ones
benefiting from his promise of pension reform.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY: We continue to fund what matters most
to New Jerseyans. The budget proposed is making the largest pension
payment ever in state history at $2.25 billion. This is an increase of
almost $670 million from last year. So this budget is faithful to the
bipartisan pension legislation that we enacted together. By any measure,
we have kept faith with our pensioners and our promise to them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: OK. So let`s take this apart. The Governor increased the
retirement age for some workers. He also cut benefits and made adjustments
to how much state employees pay into the plan. Those savings aren`t going
to the workers. Instead, retiree money is ending up in the hands of
outside managers like private equity firms and Hedge Funds, the very same
fund managers who were the biggest donors to Chris Christie`s political
Lee Fang, co-founder of RepublicReport.org joins me tonight who`s done some
reporting on this. Lee, good to have you with us tonight.
You have just written a piece about Christie`s pension reform promises.
What did you find?
LEE FANG, REPUBLICANREPORT.ORG CO-FOUNDER: Hi, Ed. Thank you so much for
having me. As you`ve mentioned, Chris Christie has created big changes for
the New Jersey State Pension Fund and he likes to talk about getting tough
on workers, cutting benefits, longer retirement age that type of thing.
But the flipside of the New Jersey Pension story is that under his
administration, his appointees voted to double the amount in the so-called
alternative investment, that`s real estate, private equity, hedge funds.
And some of these contracts went to hedge fund managers that turn around
and help fund the Republican governor`s association, this group that was
pivotal to electing Chris Christie to re-electing him last year and it`s
now the organization that Chris Christie shares as he prepares to possibly
run for the president.
SCHULTZ: How shady is this?
FANG: Well, look, in the past years, both Democrats and Republicans have
used the pension as a -- at the state pension as a honey pot to reward
their cronies. That`s well known.
But New Jersey actually has one of the strongest ethics laws to prevent
these pension managers, hedge fund private equity or whatever from giving
gifts to state politicians from contributing to their campaign. But the
RGA which operates much like a super PAC provides a loophole.
So Paul Singer, one of the hedge fund managers that won a very lucrative
contract to manage New Jersey pension money, he`s collecting millions of
dollars in fees. He is not allowed to give to Christie but he`s given over
$1 million to this political group that has benefited Christie. So it`s a
loophole that he`s exploiting.
SCHULTZ: And do you think this was orchestrated? Do you think that this
was all planned out? Or was this just a coincidence?
FANG: Well, Bob Grady, the chief Christie`s strategist, he was a buddy for
-- with Christie ever since childhood, they went to Livingston High School
together, he had planned the re-election last year. He`s the guy that
Christie appointed to run the New Jersey Pension Fund. He`s the one
responsible for pushing up the new allocation into hedge funds and private
He says he`s never heard of the Paul Singer donations and some of these
other hedge fund donations to the RGA but take that as you will it seems a
little bit surprising for Christie`s top strategist not to know about these
SCHULTZ: So the basics of it is that Christie gets state employees to put
more money into this fund which of course is going to shower the managers
of the funds with better commissions.
FANG: That`s right. You know, if you look at academic studies, pension
funds actually perform better on the long haul with more traditional
investments, you know, the S and P 500 treasuries, even, you know, a simple
index fund but, hedge funds have huge fees attached to them. So whether
they do well or do poorly, the state pension pays hundreds of millions of
dollars and fees. I had an expert look at the New Jersey State pension
plan under Chris Christie and for last year alone, that`s over $1 billion
in fees to these hedge fund managers.
SCHULTZ: All right. Lee Fang, excellent reporting, thanks for your time
tonight. He is the co-founder of RepublicReport.org.
That`s the Ed Show. I`m Ed Schultz.
Politics Nation with Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Good evening,
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