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The Ed Show for Tuesday, May 13th, 2014

Read the transcript to the Tuesday show

May 13, 2014

Guest: Jane Kleeb; Richard Piatt; John Fugelsang; Mark Binelli


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pull out his pen and sign that. It`s time to build it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have a single Republican leaders did revise their
often times

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will destroy our economy.


ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC ANCHOR: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks
for watching.

What is your definition of a trap? Now, up north, there are people that
make a living by trapping and a lot of folks are against that. They just
don`t think it`s fair to the animals. But a trap, when you trap a bear
there`s no exit. When you trap that animal, there`s no exit. So, a trap
is pretty conclusive. A trap is there`s no other way out.

What is your definition of a political trap? Would that be a politician, a
lawmaker, and elected official, a representative who wants to be a public
servant who makes a decision and there`s no turning back? It is absolute
once you make that decision.

But we are into the trapping season right now when it comes to the keystone
XL pipeline and the Republicans are back at it again. They are trying to
trap some Democrats who have the facts but they, too, are somewhat in

You see this latest report, the national climate assessment, to me, is a
total game changer. It is undeniable. Rubio has done the keystone XL
pipeline, probably the biggest favor any politician could ever do because
there`s no wiggle room.

Now, on Monday, we saw the latest example of Republican obstructionism in
an attempt to trap others in the Senate. And this is all about the
keystone XL pipeline, which they claim is going to just create so many
jobs. I will debate anyone, anywhere, anytime, in the media who wants to
make the assessment that there will be massive jobs created because of the
keystone XL pipeline.

Ask me to go on any show, any network, I have the facts and beyond. I have
been on the ground and I know exactly how many jobs it`s going to create
and for how long, even the union jobs most of you don`t like.

Now, the Senate voted 55-36, you know, to kill a clean energy bill. It was
bipartisan. The bipartisan bill that would have improved energy efficiency
in blooming in America. You know how much energy we lose in this country
because we are not properly insulated? Because we have old buildings and
old technology and we just haven`t upgraded things? We could save billions
of dollars as a country, create hundreds of thousands of jobs if we
retrofit buildings in America. Well. of course, that would cost money and
Republicans don`t want to do that.

Now, the bill was expected to pass until Republicans attempted to attach an
amendment that would approve the keystone XL pipeline. The tried to trap
the Democrats. Immediately after the vote, Louisiana senator, Mary
Landrieu who clearly is worried about her own backyard took to the Senate
floor. She was upset that the keystone pipeline was not attached to the


MAYOR MARY LANDRIEU (D), LOUISIANA: It`s a shame that all the hard work
that has gone into this ended basically at a draw tonight. I thought it
was important to pair it with the keystone pipeline because while there`s
strong support for the efficiency bill on the democratic side and
significant support on the Republican side, the Republican leaders wanted
to build and many of us, including myself, the keystone pipeline.


SCHULTZ: That`s true, because there are probably a lot of people in that
part of the country that don`t have all the facts and are hired by the oil
industry and that`s a lot of votes. Easy to figure out.

But you know what? Marry Landrieu and the Republicans need to give up on
the pipeline. It isn`t going to happen. OK? The idea this pipeline will
help our economy and create jobs is literally a pipe dream. And everybody
just throws out the bullet, it`s a job creator. Really? How many? Tell
ne, how long? How many? Give me a number.

Only foreign countries would benefit from the XL pipeline, mostly the
Canadians and their mega energy company, TransCanada.

Now, I want to bring your attention to a story in Nanaimo Daily News out in
British Columbia, way out west there., you know. Right now, Canada`s hydro
electric program is in unquestionably deep financial trouble. Not only in
British Columbia, but in Manitoba. In fact, out there, in British
Columbia, they have a $8 billion dam project in northeastern British
Columbia. It`s been stalled by the government. They don`t have the money.
This means 450,000 homes in the area could see their energy costs go
through the roof unless they do something about it because somebody`s got
to pay for that hydro thing.

And in Manitoba, if you check it out, you will see that they are ridden
with debt with the Manitoba hydro program and they are thinking about
spending billions at it to put a pipeline down the west side of lake
Winnipeg. But wait a minute, that`s going to cost money, too. So how are
we going to balance this out?

This is a Canadian energy project. Good for them. They want to get that
oil out of the ground because they are tired of deficits. So, when it
comes down to it, the facts are very clear. This pipeline is great for
Canada, good for them. But it`s risky for the United States. It is risky
for our agriculture and it is unnecessary.

We take all the risk and they get all the reward. The cash on the barrel.
Now, look, it runs over farmland. We have done this story and we are going
to keep doing it because the polls are slowly turning. I get calls on the
talk show, well, you know Ed, 60 percent of the people want to pipeline.
Really? Not long ago, it was 70 percent. It is amazing when the
information gets out there and people start finding out exactly what the
risk is and how unnecessary it is. Now, it`s not going to create the jobs
they are talking about. It`s not going to be the energy security this
country needs. No.

No, no, no, this is a bad deal. It`s a huge risk to our water supply.
There is no question about it.

Now for Canada, I don`t know if I would go so far to call it a blank check,
but let`s say there`s a lot of space left on that check. It`s estimated
that the pipeline would add $617.4 billion to Canada`s gross domestic
product. Now, if President Obama could get -- wait a minute. If the
Republicans could get something that would put $617 billion to the
country`s GDP, think they would be for it? Oh, yes. There is no wonder
the Canadian government is pushing so hard for the pipeline. This is back
in February. We had Canadian ambassador, Gary Doer, who is a class act, a
great guy, I have great respect for him, but he`s on the wrong side of the
issue. He came on this program and made a hard push for the pipeline.


SCHULTZ: What if the president says no to this? What does it do to
diplomatic relations with Canada?

AMB. GARY DOER, CANADIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: Well first of all, if the
president says no, he`s saying yes to higher greenhouse gases because the
oil is coming down whether anybody likes it or not on rail. It does not
require his presidential permit.

So, the choice for John Kerry and the president is do you want the oil
coming through United States and through Canada on rail or do you want it
on pipelines. Lower costs, lower risk and lower GHGs on pipelines. Other
than that, it`s not that complicated.


SCHULTZ: Aside from Canada, the publicly traded corporations TransCanada
will no doubt make big money on the pipeline. It`s estimated TransCanada
could make $2 billion a year in revenue from the pipeline. Would you take
that deal? It would be good news for shareholders and bad news for
Americans. And there`s another dynamic that is playing out here when it
comes to hydro.

The Canadians sell hydro power to the United States. Numerous states are
purchasers. Guess what? Those states are using more and more natural gas,
we are fracking the hell out of everything we possibly can in our own
ground and we are getting more natural gas and we are buying less
hydropower from the folks up north who made their big investments. So now,
they need this pipeline.

If President Obama says yes to this keystone XL pipeline, he may go down as
one of the biggest disappointments for the progressive movement ever. He`s
done so many good things. But, there`s so much information even as of late
that would guide him on the correct path to the future, to make a statement
collectively that, you know, we are going to put an end to this stuff.
This is not a job creator. It`s not a secure energy situation and it
certainly hurts it climate.

Say no Mr. President. You are going to hear a lot from "the Ed Show" on
this because I want everybody in this country to keep thinking what the
Republicans are saying. But then listen to the facts. And that will guide
you on this.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, who would benefit more from the keystone XL pipeline, the United
States or Canada? Text A for the United States, text B for Canada to
67222. You can always go to our blog and leave a comment
We`ll bring you the results later on in the show.

For more, let me bring in Jane Kleeb of Bold, Nebraska. She is here with
us tonight in New York.

Jane, will the pipeline benefit Canada more than the United States? I`m
asking you to answer the text question first.

is essentially a Canadian bail out. They need their oil to get to the
export market. Without the tar sands on the expo markets, they are just
simply not going to make as much money. And that`s why they need this
pipeline so much. And this is a massive pipeline. It is a 36-inch
pipeline. It`s not a small 12-inch pipeline we see in our communities.

SCHULTZ: Well, when you look at this pipeline and what it will do for
Canada, it`s understandably so why they would push it so hard. Energy
security is the first right wing bullet point I want to talk about here.
Will it provide energy security for America because it`s in our hemisphere?

KLEEB: No. It is one of the stupidest argument, actually, that the
Republicans indicating government. First of all, it`s not our oil. A
small percentage of American oil could potentially get on. That`s not even
a guarantee. And then it goes straight to the export market. The
refineries that are capable of handling tar sands, they are all export
refineries. And one of them owned by Saudi Arabia.

And so, it really gets under my skin when you see Republicans talking about
how this is an American pipeline. It is going to help American energy
security and get us off Middle Eastern oil. You are handing oil to a
Middle Eastern refinery that is going to sell it on the export market. How
does that make sense?

SCHULTZ: Are there elected officials in the Midwest actually telling
people their gas prices will go down if the pipeline is built? Have you
heard that?

KLEEB: Representative Terry sent an e-mail to his constituents saying that
their monthly energy bill would go down if the keystone XL pipeline was
built. And then it would -- and that is outrageous. And they tied to back
pedal thing. We didn`t un-fail (ph) electricity. When you tell somebody
that their monthly energy bill is going to go up, that means utility bills.

SCHULTZ: OK. Let`s -- well, monthly energy bill could be gases. I mean,
everybody buys a tank of gas. And I mean, that`s a monthly energy bill to
a family. So, there`s nowhere in this equation where people`s energy
prices would go down if the pipeline goes through the middle of the
country. That`s the question. I mean, will it be less energy cause to
Americans? And if it`s going on to the open market and if it is speculated
on Wall Street, what does that have to do with Nebraska?

KLEEB: No, that is exactly right. They want to cut through the heartland
because it`s the easiest path for them. And that is not good for America.
It`s simply good for Canadians bottom line.

SCHULTZ: OK. Where is the momentum on this? I mean, clearly, you see
them trying to do anything they possibly can to get it done in the senate.
They don`t have the votes.


SCHULTZ: What does that mean?

KLEEB: So, it essentially means that it is politically dead in the Senate.
And so, there`s no way and it wasn`t legally possible anyway, it was going
to be a ceremonial vote. So there`s no way politically for them to get
momentum out of the Senate right now.

SCHULTZ: So, does this embolden the president to say hey, you can`t get it
passed in the Senate, why should I say yes to this?

KLEEB: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: I mean, I think this is politically backfired. On one hand, it`s
given some Democrats who have a hard time politically in their own backyard
with this with an election coming up but it also has, I think, embolden the
president saying you can`t pass it, why should I say yes to it?

KLEEB: No question. So the president has a stiffer backbone and the crime
assessment (ph) that came out certainly gave him enough ammunition to make
sure that this pipeline was rejected. And then the Democrats who say they
support the pipeline, I think I want to tell them to read Senator
Wellstone`s book. Like get a backbone. Stand on the facts. Stand with
farmers and ranchers. Talk about imminent domain. There`s space for
Democrats to make sure that they don`t continue fooling Americans on this

SCHULTZ: But these senators who are on the democratic side, who are
supporting the pipeline, are they buying into the right wing bullet points?
I mean, I have heard them talk about energy security for America. I have
heard them talk about jobs. I mean aren`t they just buying into what the
oil companies are saying?

KLEEB: Yes. They might as well be reading out of the TransCanada books or
coming into our communities. TransCanada dies this fake community meetings
where they try to sell us on the pipeline merit. They are saying the exact
same thing TransCanada mislead folks on.

SCHULTZ: All right, now the national climate assessment which came out, I
want to play a clip from Senator Marco Rubio from Sunday. Here it is.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: How big a threat is climate change.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Yes. I don`t agree with the notion that
some are putting out there, including scientists, that somehow there are
actions we can take today that would actually have an impact on what`s
happening in our climate. Our climate is always changing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: But let me get this straight. You do not
think that human activity the production of CO2 caused global warming to
our planet.

RUBIO: I don`t believe that human activity is causing the dramatic changes
to our climate the way these scientists are portraying it. And I do not
believe the laws they propose to pass will do anything about it except it
will destroy our economy.


SCHULTZ: He says our climate has always been changing. He says it will
destroy our economy. He doesn`t believe the scientists, over 300 of them
that worked three years on this. And we should point out that in the
national climate assessment, there`s a warning about the city of Miami.
That is the city that stands to lose the most, the earliest in all of this
and here is a Republican senator across the board in total denial. Does
that strengthen your argument?

KLEEB: Absolutely. I mean, Senator Rubio is our there denying science.
He`s essentially saying that the climate scientists who spend their entire
career studying climate change, that they are wrong. And somehow his GOP
rhetoric is right. And folks in Florida should stand up and recognize,
Florida, that`s where I was born. And so, I`m pretty protective of that
state. You know, there`s a good chance that parts of Florida will be under
water if we don`t stop essentially creating all these new forms of fossil
fuel and tar sand is the worst. Ed, you know it creates three times the
amount of green house gas emissions and that is on a very conservative

SCHULTZ: Is that in the state department report?

KLEEB: It was. And that is actually misleading when the Republicans say,
the state department said everything was fine and dandy with this pipeline,
they gave various climate scenarios.

SCHULTZ: OK. I want to play this clip in exchange that I have with
Nebraska congressman Lee Terry. Here it is.


SCHULTZ: Congressman, they cannot build this pipeline until this is can
cleared up by the Nebraska state Supreme Court, correct?

REP. LEE TERRY (R), NEBRASKA: No. Right now, it`s under a stay. They can
start building it right now other than they may have to go into eminent


SCHULTZ: What about that?

KLEEB: Lee Terry is wrong. There`s no stay on the decision. And so, the
governor Heineman and attorney general Bruning are trying to overturn the
decision, the landowner victory. Essentially, that said, TransCanada has
no legal route. So not only do they not have a legal route in Nebraska,
Ed, and so Representative Terry was absolutely 100 percent wrong. They are
going to lose their route in South Dakota at the end of June. So out of
three states that they need state permits, they are going to be without

SCHULTZ: So, we are about a month away from South Dakota losing its
permit. The time will run out and they will have to re-permit it. Will
the re-permitting process be harder this time around?

KLEEB: There`s no question. You not only have tribal groups.

SCHULTZ: So this is going to rope in John Thune, a Republican.

KLEEB: It is.

SCHULTZ: And he is going to step out and say that, you know, where he is
on all of this. I`m sure he`s a yes vote on the pipeline. But the dynamic
has changed. Are landowners more attune to what`s going on here?

KLEEB: I think farmers and ranchers shifted the debate, to be honest. And
I hope that politicians in South Dakota start listening to the constituents
that they put in their political ads and they put in their campaign
material. Start listening to them. They have major concerns about the
risks to their livelihoods.

SCHULTZ: So the political trap didn`t work. They couldn`t get it through,
so we will see how it all turns out. You are doing great work. And the
more people that find out about this, the more attitudes are changing on


SCHULTZ: What if President Obama says yes?

KLEEB: I mean not only will he be a disappointment to Democrats and
progressives like you and I, he`ll be a disappointment to his girls. He
openly talks about how much he talk to his girls on climate change and how
it is an issue that he wants to tackle personally. And so, I just don`t
see how he would approve this risky project.

SCHULTZ: OK, Jane Kleeb, good to have you with us tonight, Thanks so much
for joining us.

Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen.
Share your thoughts with us on twitter @edshow and on facebook. We want to
know what you think.

Coming up, Karl Rove`s desperate attempt to knock Hillary Clinton`s
credibility. Rapid response panel weighs in on that.

But first, a rare look inside the anti-government movement as Bundy`s
message spreads to Utah. Trenders is next. Stick around. We are right


SCHULTZ: What`s hot, what`s not. Time for what`s trending on social
media. Check us out, Join us on twitter at at On the radio, you are going to find us
on Sirius XM channel 127, the progress channel, Monday through Friday, noon
to 3:00. You can get the radio podcast at we got "Ed show" social
media nation has decided we are reporting. Here are the top trenders voted
on by you.



SCHULTZ: The number three trender, ships ahoy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue. And in
2014, we might be getting a glimpse of his historic journey.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And underwater research team may have just found one
of the most famous ships in history.

SCHULTZ: Explorers say they found Christopher Columbus` famous ship.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than 500 years ago, the ship wrecked up the
coast of Haiti.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you sure you didn`t take a wrong turn, Chris?

BARRY CLIFFORD, UNDERWATER EXPLORER: It`s 40 feet long and 20 feet wide,
which would be the fingerprint of the Santa Maria.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If it is confirmed, it is the most significant
underwater find in history.

SCHULTZ: The number two trender, jersey guy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Johnny Manziel as the quarterback has the highest
selling jersey in the league. Michael Sam is number two in this list.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Sam and Johnny Manziel, the images and the
emotion really kind of defining what happened over the three-day draft.

SCHULTZ: The seventh room pick is second in NFL jersey sales.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His jersey went on sale Saturday night at 9:00. He
sold more jersey than Clowney.

SCHULTZ: People are showing support with their wallets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of it is about what Michael Sam represents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are invested in this. And now they have a role
model, to have somebody who they can look up to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Rams become a team that a lot of people are going
to want to see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will be exciting for a couple days, then get down to
football business here.

SCHULTZ: In today`s the top trender, the Bundy bunch.

The seed of hate against the federal government is growing out west.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we are here to make a stand, then by heaven`s sake
let`s make a stand.

SCHULTZ: The Bundy movement blossomed into a weed that really no herbicide
can kill. Anti-government sentiments continue rise high in south western

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole point of it was kind to get this into the
public`s eye.

SCHULTZ: These folks, I think, want something to happen.

SCHULTZ: There`s a problem and the government is doing nothing to solve

SCHULTZ: I think they identify the re-capture protest with this larger
movement to defy federal authority.


SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight, Richard Piatt, reporter for KSL television in
Salt Lake City, Utah, who was at this weekend`s protest and covered it in
recapture Kenya.

Good to have you with us, Richard. You were there, what were the people
looking to accomplish with the ATV protest?

RICHARD PIATT, REPORTER, KSL TELEVISION: Obviously, you have two different
groups, Ed. You have the people there to send the message to the BOM that
the road through recapture canyon belongs to the people of San Juan County,
the area where the canyon is.

And then you have people interested in that larger movement, the Bundy
group, the militia types who wanted to spread that anti-federal government
message, you know, is in totality, you know, as wide as possible. So there
were two different groups. Some of those people chose to broke the law,
break the law by going through the prohibited parts of the canyon, some of
whom decided that they would be legal and make their stand without doing
the illegal thing.

SCHULTZ: So these folks, Bundy followers, Bundy disciples, whatever. I
don`t know how you want to, you know, label them, but they seem to be
traveling to protest to protest as if trying to gain some movement and
blame everything on the federal government. Is that your assessment?

PIATT: I think they are looking for any opportunity to further Bundy`s
message. Clearly, these folks saw the opportunity in San Juan county and
they wanted to seize on it. They wanted to rally the local people to go
with them.

Interestingly enough, the organizers saw all this coming and he knew how it
would play in the media. And that`s why he backed off and told the people
we are going to engage on the aTV ride. I don`t want you to go on that
illegal area for these reasons. And it is because he know that the wider
message that he was trying to get across would potentially be overshadowed
by all the drama that would ensue if they did what the Bundy folks, if you
will, were advocating.

SCHULTZ: OK. So the good commissioner, I think, you are talking about is
Phil Lineman. He was taking part in this protest, but for maybe different
motives than what the Bundy people were all about. So, they are obviously
trying to capture the camera in the attention. But what is their mission,
objectively speaking as reporter, what would you say their mission is?

PIATT: Well, I think they are trying to gather support from the wider
public. That people who live in the populated areas up here in Salt Lake
City, for example, you know, people in the city can`t relate to the issues
going on down there. They want wider support for the effort to reclaim the
land, if you will.

So, here`s where they are coming from. Recapture canyon is a beautiful
place. There`s tons of archaeological treasures down there. I saw them
myself. It`s very interesting. It is fascinating. The BLM doesn`t want
motorized vehicles going through there and bringing people who don`t know
what they are doing, gaining access to the stuff and kind of stumbling
through treasures. That`s the whole idea.

But by the BLM coming in and telling San Juan County they can`t have
motorized vehicles there, it makes San Juan county mad because they don`t
think the BLM has jurisdiction on that land to begin with. And so, you got
this difference of opinion fundamentally about who has jurisdiction over
the land as the starting point here. And so, the wider message is, you
know, take the BLM out of our land. We have the power to, you know, decide
for ourselves what`s best here.

SCHULTZ: And Mr. Piatt, where does the Navajo nation fit in all of this?
They have got some major concerns about some culturally sensitive lands, I

PIATT: Well, they are sort of caught in this, too. They don`t want their
antiques destroyed either. But they got some concerns with the federal
government as well that they want voice, too. So there, you know,
individuals within the Navajo nation have their own views, very strong
views on this standpoint on this whole issue, but they don`t want to really
be too closely aligned with the Bundy group, either.

SCHULTZ: OK. It looks to me like the Bundy group is on the hunt for some
type of confrontation. And they were armed, were they not? And were they
banishing firearms in a sense. How would you characterize their behavior

PIATT: Yes. Well, I didn`t see that Ryan Bundy or any members of his
family who I interviewed when I was down there, I didn`t see them armed
with firearms. But I did see members of the militia. They clearly had AK-
47s slung over their shoulder. They were riding aTVs and they wearing the
military fatigue, the whole thing, and they don`t want to talk to the

You know, those people are much different breed than the people that are
from San Juan County, who are there to make the stand about the canyon.

SCHULTZ: All right. Richard Piatt, reporter for KSL television in Salt
Lake City. I appreciate your time tonight. Thanks so much.

Up next, Karl Rove`s brain games. The architect revs up the smear machine
and the rapid response panel weighs.

And later, the Senate derby in Kentucky. This one race tells us everything
we need to know about the Republican agenda.

But next, I`m taking your questions, asked Ed live coming up next on "the
Ed Show" on MSNBC. We are right back.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to "the Ed Show."

Love the questions from you wonderful viewers out there tonight in our ask
Ed live segment.

Out first question is from Cordell. Do you believe the Republicans will
impeach President Obama if they take the Senate this fall?

Let`s just say on a slow news day, that`s the only thing they are going to
be talking about. But wait a minute, let`s not have them take the Senate.
No, look, I think they want to see President Obama out of office any way
they can get it done.

Our next question is from Jac. He wants t know or makes the observation
here. Tom Brady was drafted in the sixth round. In the end, does it
matter when Sam, Michael Sam, was drafted?

Well, I mean, yes, it does. Teams that pick you in the first or second
round have quite an investment. You are supposed to be an impact player, a
right away kind of guy right now, instant impact and a starter. But I find
it very interesting that Michael Sam was the defensive player of the year
and arguably the toughest college conference in the country, the
southeastern conference. The defensive player of the year. Means he was
better than anybody on Alabama`s defense or Auburn`s defense or LSU`s
defense or Tennessee`s defense. I mean, he was the best in the league.
And all the other players over the last seven years all went on the first
round who were the top defensive players in the league, but he went in the
last round. I don`t think the NFL is as accepting as they claim they are.

By the way, the local team is going to draft Michael Sam, right, so the
league doesn`t take any crap? Stick around. Rapid response panel is next.

BERTHA COOMBS, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I`m Bertha Coombs with your CNBC wrap.

Slight gains for stock today. The Dow adding 19 points to close at a new
high. The S&P just edging over the goal post, also ending at a new record.
The Nasdaq slips 13.

Shoppers kept a lid on spending last month. Retail sales rose one tenth a
percent in April. Reading was weaker than expected.

And shares of current Green Mountain surged more than seven percent after
Coca-Cola said it was increasing their stake in the company, becoming its
biggest shareholder.

That`s it for CNBC. We are first in business worldwide.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to "the Ed Show."

The brains behind George W. Bush is making baseless claims about Hillary
Clinton`s mental health. Karl Rove who told an audience last week in a
fundraiser that he was skeptical about the former secretary state`s
recovery after she fell in December, 2012. Rove doubled down on his
comments earlier today.


KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I didn`t say she has brain damage. She
had a serious health episode. This will be an issue in the 2016 race
whether she likes it or not. Every presidential candidate is asked for all
of their health records by "The New York Times." They turn them over --
and vice president candidates. They turn them over to a battery of doctors
and they examine them in detail.


SCHULTZ: Whether she likes it or not. Have you heard Hillary Clinton as
of late really complain about the health coverage that she`s getting across
the media front? No, it`s you Karl.

The former Bush adviser has used age and health as a tactic against other
political opponents in the past. Here we go. He`s going for a repeat
performance against Hillary Clinton.


ROVE: Look, she`ll be 69 by the time the 2016 election. She`ll be 77, if
she serves two terms. And this ends up being an issue. I would remind
you, John McCain, here is the headline from U.S. news and world report,
McCain`s age and past health problems could be an issue to the presidential


SCHULTZ: Well, his temper had something to do with that, too, I`d say
Karl. Karl Rove is clearly trying to create good old fashion smear
campaign. Hillary Clinton`s congressional testimony about Benghazi was
delayed while she was recovering. Well, this is an obvious and desperate
attempt by the Republican party to derail Clinton and keep the focus on
Benghazi and certainly out there in the conversation.

Joining me tonight on a rapid response panel, John Fugelsang, political
commentator and TV host along with Bob Shrum, Democratic strategist and
columnist for "the Daily Beast."

Great to have you with us tonight.

John, you first. This is just the fish bowl that the Clinton`s have always
had to swim in. There`s a bunch of sharks out there always after him and
Rove is just in the water today for a different chapter. What do you think
of this?

JOHN FUGELSANG, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it is beautiful to have 90s
nostalgia come back. Remember in the 90s, the Republicans told us to
despise Hillary Clinton. They said she was a lesbian who had an affair
with Vince Foster, you know. Now, we have the odds where they were saying
well, she`s OK, she`s a very, you know, rather conservative democratic
senator. But now that Hillary hate machine is back. It`s like drinking
zima while listening to faith no more and Color Me Bad. It is all 90s
nostalgia. And it is going to backfire. They are trying to smear a woman
for having a blood clot? They are trying to smear a woman for her age?

Ronald Reagan was 69 when he was elected to office. And the average FOX
viewer age is 66. That`s going to backfire on Mr. Rove.

SCHULTZ: OK. Was she in the hospital for a month?

FUGELSANG: No, Karl Rove lied. He said she was hospitalized for 30 day.
but she was hospitalized for four days. But look, they are blaming her for
what terrorists did. They are blaming her for her husband`s infidelity.
They are blaming her from blood clot? They got nothing. And even if she`s
69, she will be younger than the 90-year-old Herbert Hoover ideas.

SCHULTZ: All right, Bob Shrum, your thoughts on all of this, Rove`s
smearing that is going on right now. It`s just crudes (ph) and skids right
now, is there a lot more to come?

BOB SHRUM, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Sure. Look, first of all, he lied about
the lie. It`s a lie she had brain cancer. And then he claimed he didn`t
say when he clearly he did. And it has been reported. But all of the --
what else do you expect, by the way from a guy who flogged the fiction of
weapons of mass destruction, helped steal Florida the presidency for Bush
in 2000. He will be winning and didn`t say anything.

Then I think the Republicans will consistently do this to Hillary from
Benghazi, to Boko Haram, the terrorist group in Nigeria because they are
afraid, very afraid of her. They want to deter her from running or they
want damage her, if they can.

Look. She leads every national poll against any Republican possibility.
She leads Jeb Bush in the most recent poll by eight or ten points in
Florida. I actually think this is going to have the opposite of their
intended effect. I think it will strengthen her resolve, make it more
likely she`ll run. I believe she will run. I believe she will win and
then the Republicans can live for eight years with president Hillary

SCHULTZ: There is such, Bob, a stigma about mental health in America. And
I think that this is a double down dirty dig by Karl Rove to say that she
has a -- it was reported she had a massive brain injury.

SHRUM: Right.

SCHULTZ: He has no boundaries.

SHRUM: I agree.

SCHULTZ: He has no boundaries.

SHRUM: Well, we know that. I mean, we know, for example, he crassly
exploited anti-gay prejudice in 2004 to turn out base Republican votes. So
there are no boundaries.

But you are absolutely right about something else. And I haven`t heard it
said in any places. This is outrageous because it`s a smear against
Hillary Clinton. But it`s also outrageous because there are lots of people
out there struggling with brain cancer, struggle with severe mental
problems and this shouldn`t be turned into a political football. But they
are willing to do it. They are more than willing to do it. They are happy
to do it.

John, your thoughts on this? SCHULTZ:

FUGELSANG: You know, I think Bob is exactly right. I mean, this is going
to help smearing Hillary Clinton from a medical issue is going to help them
and for her angel help them exactly much as Mitt Romney talking about self-
deportation made Latino voters call it essay. It`s not going to help them.
And again, it shows that they have nothing but their 90-year-old ideas.

SCHULTZ: What is this? Is this a political tag team wrestling match going
on? I mean, last week, Lynne Cheney appeared on FOX talking about the
Clinton strategy. And here is what she said.


really wonder if this isn`t an effort on the Clinton`s part to get that
story out of the way. Would vanity fair publish anything about Monica
Lewinsky that Hillary Clinton didn`t want in "Vanity Fair?" Get it out of
the way so it`s can say one more time, it is old news. Seems to me like a
strategy or tactic perhaps.


SCHULTZ: So John, it is a cheap shot every week?

FUGELSANG: They are trying to save print. They will run anything with
Monica Lewinsky to help them. Yes, that they are the gang that couldn`t
smear straight. The argument they are making is that Hillary Clinton is
dragging up the past so she can say they are dragging up the past. It
doesn`t make any sense. And again, Rand Paul has already tried to use this
against her. The Lewinsky article did say when this Lewinsky took
responsibility for the affair, it took away the Rand Paul`s hope predator


And Bob, you wrote an article earlier this week saying that it`s going to
be a non-race for the 2016 democratic presidential nomination. Can
anything derail Hillary Clinton?

SHRUM: Well, I think, you know, obviously if she did have a health
problem, which she doesn`t, or if she made the decision not to run, which I
think she won`t. That could derail her.

But, what I meant by that is there`s not going to be a serious sustained
opposition. She leads by twice as much right now, at this point in the
cycle as she did in 2007. She`s 64 or 70 percent of Democrats want to
nominate her. She is 40 to 50 points ahead of anybody else. So I think
she is going to be the nominee.

And I think that goes back to the point John was just making. Republicans
are going to smear and smear and smear. I don`t think it`s going to work.
But, I think they are going to do it because they don`t have anything else.
They didn`t learn in the `90s, smearing Bill Clinton wouldn`t work. So, I
guess they are not going to learn this time, smearing her won`t work.

SCHULTZ: Bob Shrum, John Fugelsang, great to have you with us tonight.
Thanks so much.

Coming up, "Rolling Stone" calls it a Kentucky death match. We call it
must see TV.

Stay tuned and watch out.


SCHULTZ: And in pretenders tonight, dropping the ball, Donald Sterling.
Sterling sure knows how to get a crowd on his side, doesn`t he? Donald
Sterling`s desperate plea for forgiveness included slam basting a
basketball legend.


DONALD STERLING, L.A. CLIPPERS OWNER: What has he done? Can you tell me?
Big magic Johnson, what has he done?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, AC360: He`s a business person.

STERLING: He`s got aids. Did he do any business? Did he help anybody in
south L.A.?

COOPER: I think he has HIV. It doesn`t actually like a full-on AIDS.

STERLING: But what kind of a guys goes to every city, has sex with every
girl and he catches HIV. And is that someone we want to respect and tell
our kids about? I think he should be ashamed of himself. I think he
should go into the background. But what does he do for the black people?
He doesn`t do anything.


SCHULTZ: Wow! I mean, this guy is passing moral judgment as if he has the
perfect personal life? OK.

Magic Johnson`s HIV diagnosis prompted a fight against a stigma in this
country and energized community outreach. Johnson`s foundation raise
millions for scholarships and medical treatment. Magic Johnson is an icon
on and off the court.

Donald Sterling isn`t even allowed on the sidelines. If Donald sterling
believes attacking Magic Johnson`s record clears his own, he can keep on



SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: If I had my way about it, we
would repeal Obamacare and start all over and get it right.

There`s only one escape hatch that will fully help those trapped by this
law and that`s full repeal. So, it`s time for Democrats to stop trying to
defend the indefensible and you want Republicans wiping this colossal
legislative mistake clear off the books.


SCHULTZ: Welcome back to "the Ed Show."

This is the story for the folks who take a shower after work. Haven`t we
just got a massive archive of Mitch McConnell saying all kinds of bad stuff
about Obamacare? I mean, Mitch McConnell has been banging the drum against
Obamacare from day one. And as we get closer to the midterms elections, he
might want to rethink his strategy.

You see Kentucky has become an Obamacare success story, count on. Over 413
Kentuckians have enrolled for health coverage through Kynect which, of
course, is the state`s rebranded version of Obamacare.

In a new poll, Democratic governor Steve Beshear`s approval rating is going
through the roof. He`s at 63 percent with the success of this health care
effort. Now, Beshear was also the only southern governor who did not
reject the Obamacare Medicaid expansion. Instead, less than six months out
of the election, the majority of Kentuckians disapprove of the job the
senator from Kentucky is doing, Mitch McConnell. And the polls have his
Democratic challenger Alison Grimes trailing by just one percentage point.
So what`s going on here in Kentucky? I think it speaks to a much larger

Back in November, you may recall I toured the Kynect call center with
Governor Beshear. I saw people in a consistently red states realizing the
benefits of blue policies. And this is a blue policy, remember?
Republicans have been against it all along and the numbers don`t lie.

People want health care and it could spell trouble for Republicans like
McConnell come November. I mean, how many more people are going to get
covered between now and November? How many more success stories are going
to be out there? I think the worm is turning to the point where the
Republicans, hey, let`s not talk about this health care anything anymore.

Joining me now is Mark Binelli. He is a contributing editor for "Rolling
Stone" magazine. has written about this and just back from Kentucky. Good
to have you with us.

Mark, what did you find on the ground in Kentucky?

confirmed what you said. I mean, I sat down with Governor Beshear and he
said he very quietly made the decision to take federal money and really
build up the Kynect Web site. You know, they made it very simple and
tested it and tested it so they don`t have any problem that the federal Web
site was having.

The other really key thing they did was rebrand it. Obamacare still polls
very badly in the state, if you ask people about Obamacare. But if you ask
people about Kynect -- I mean, he told a very funny story about a guy who
came up the head of booth set up at the state fair. This guy came up and
said, you know, I just signed up for your health care site. I just want to
say it is really great. I`m so glad you turned down that awful Obamacare.
So the governor basically said, you know, whatever works.

SCHULTZ: Whatever works. Isn`t that rather interesting that President
Obama connected to health care is rejected by people, but it`s the same
thing. I just find that really amazing. Is that a product of the sell job
that McConnell has been able to do?

BINELLI: Yes. It`s just a steady disinformation campaign. I mean, you
could see the same thing with other, you know, issues like the so-called
more on coal, you know? Parts of Kentucky, like a Appalachian where I
spent a couple of days where, you know, it`s usually very democratic,
Howard (ph) county, USA, you know, the United Mine workers. But they`re
pushing this war on coal narrative that is making things very complicated
for Democrats in the state.

SCHULTZ: Is health care going to be a problem for Mitch McConnell? Has it
been so successful in Kentucky that it`s undeniable and it`s going to be a
political problem for him?

BINELLI: It could turn around. I mean, he is very -- you know, the funny
thing is Obama`s popularity, according to a poll by one of the local papers
is something like 34 percent in Kentucky. McConnell`s is 32 percent. So
he`s not a loved man.

SCHULTZ: Is Grimes being helped by this health care success?

BINELLI: I think so, yes. I mean, she is, you know, she is being helped
in general by the fact that she`s not Mitch McConnell. She is everything
about her is just sort of very stark contrast to McConnell.

SCHULTZ: Do you think that what`s happening in Kentucky speaks to a larger
issue for the Republican party? I mean, how can it be so different. I
mean, if they`re having success in other states, similar to what Kentucky
is experiencing.

BINELLI: The problem, I guess, would be in southern states, you know,
they`ve actually rejected the Medicaid expansion, so some of those states
don`t have the same success stories to prove it. But I think you`re
completely right. Once the narrative gets out there, you know, people --
it will be hard to deny.

SCHULTZ: Does Governor Beshear attribute his approval rating at 63 percent
which is one of the best in the country? Does he connect it to Kynect and
the health care bill?

BINELLI: He does, not exclusively, but yes, he points to that as a big

SCHULTZ: And what about -- and do the people like it? Do the people of
Kentucky like it?

BINELLI: That`s the sense I get. I mean, some -- I think one out of 12
Kentuckians has signed up by the time the first enrollment period ended,
which is pretty huge. Yes, you know, it`s working.

SCHULTZ: OK. Mark Binelli of "Rolling Stone," good to have you with us
tonight. Thanks so much.

BINELLI: Tanks for having me.

That`s "the Ed Show." I`m Ed Schultz. "Politics Nation" with Reverend Al
Sharpton starts right now.


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