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The Ed Show for Friday, July 11th, 2014

Read the transcript to the Friday show

July 11, 2014

Guest: Dr. Corey Hebert, John Fugelsang, Ben Cohen, Obery Hendricks,
Anthony Neil, Saul Williams

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC HOST: Good evening Americans, welcome the Ed
Show, live from New York. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Schultz. Let`s
get to work.


it`s just me they don`t like.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...sue right now by Mr. Boehner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: House Speaker John Boehner made official what he`s
threatened for weeks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Laying out his lawsuit against President Obama.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is some irony. Republicans have opposed the
employer mandate.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH), HOUSE SPEAKER: I`m going to repeal the law of
the land, is that clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, they`re suing.

DYSON: You won`t believe the level of obstructionism...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we have to see how acceptable the Speaker
strategy is.

OBAMA: Sue me for doing my job.

BOEHNER: Listen, I think this is a battle between the two branches of

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let`s repeal this failure.

BOEHNER: Others couldn`t make the determination about whether it`s
impeachable or not.

OBAMA: You don`t do your job.


DYSON: How is this for a metaphor? Capital Hills specifically the
Republican-led House is recovering from an industrial waste containment
issue. A so-called industrial spill shutdown the House chamber Thursday
morning, all staff members were told to clear the area. The building did
reopen later Thursday. Meantime Speaker John Boehner and House Republicans
had another waste containment issue of sorts.

They released the details of their lawsuit against President Obama.
Republicans have made an art of wasting time and not getting anything done.
You`ve think getting LeBron back to Ohio would put Boehner in a better

The lawsuit is focused on President Obama`s executive actions related to
the employer mandate of the Affordable Care Act.


BOEHNER: It`s not about the executive actions. Other president does
executive orders. What we`re talking about here are places where the
President is basically rewriting law to make it fit his own needs.


DYSON: They`re scared, because Obama care is working and working well.
Boehner is accusing President Obama of not implementing employer mandate in
Obamacare fast enough. Republicans are taking obstructions to a whole new
level with this one.

This is the same party that everything in its power to overturn and delay
the passage of Obamacare. Here`s a little reminder of what happened one
night back in September.


SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: I intend to speak in support of defunding
Obamacare until I am no longer able to stand.

We can eat them with the fox, great eggs and ham has some applicability as
curious as it might sound to the Obamacare debate.

What Americans tried and they discovered they did not like great eggs and
ham and they did not like Obamacare either.


DYSON: Ah the deconstruction of Theodor Geisel. The amount of time and
energy Republicans spent on trying to block Obamacare was a waste. The
millions of dollars spent in television ads criticizing the bill might have
actually backfired.

A new study published Wednesday by the Brookings Institution says those
negative ads may have led to increased enrollment under the healthcare
reform law. Who would have suspected that people wouldn`t respond well to
ads like this?

Ain`t nobody opting out but LeBron and Carmelo. The hypocrisy is apparent.
Republicans are trying to prevent President Obama from getting any credit
for doing something great for the American people. The President himself
addressed this in Austin, Texas on Thursday afternoon.


OBAMA: ... and you hear some of them, they`re like, suit him, impeach him.


OBAMA: Really? Really? For what? You`re going to sue me doing my job?


DYSON: Boehner`s lawsuit comes after the Obama administration delayed the
provision requiring employers with more than 50 employees to pay a fine if
they don`t offer affordable quality coverage. Firms claim they wouldn`t be
ready to meet its requirement by 2014.

At that time Republicans didn`t seem to have any issues with the delay.
Last summer Speaker Boehner sent a letter to President Obama admitting the
employer mandate cannot be implemented within the current timeframe.
Republicans also called on President Obama to delay the individual mandate.

They wanted to take another vote on the matter. It`s clear this lawsuit is
fabricated nonsense. Republicans were never concerned about delays in the
first place. Conservatives changed their strategy and started referring to
Obamacare as a jobs killer.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Obamacare was debated in Congress, we screamed
from the rooftops that it just wouldn`t work. That it would be a job

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obamacare is the biggest job killer in this country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let`s repeal this failure before it literally kills
women, kills children, kills senior citizens, let`s not do that, let`s love

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s only one escape hatch that will fully help
those trapped by this law. And that`s full repeal.

BOEHNER: In my opinion, Obamacare is the biggest job killer we have in
America today.


DYSON: Oh how wrong they are. The June jobs report shows the economy at a
288,000 jobs. It`s the longest job growth streak on record.

9.7 million Jobs have been added since early 2010. 1.4 million of those
jobs were added in the first half of this year. It`s the most in the first
half of the year since 1999.

Many of these jobs were added under Obamacare. All of the claims
Republicans have made about President Obama and the Affordable Care Act
have been baseless. They got nothing, now they`re filing suit.

Even if Boehner wins this legal challenge, it is unlikely the Supreme Court
will reach a final decision on the case until June 2016, which is months
after the employer mandate is supposed to go into effect anyway. Just
enjoy LeBron.

Get your cellphones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, do Republicans have a waste containment issue?

Text A for Yes, text B for No to 67622 or go to our blog at
I`ll bring you the results later in the show.

Dr. Corey Hebert, professor at LSU Health Sciences Center and John
Fugelsang, political commentator and TV host join me now.

Dr. Hebert, a new survey about the commonwealth fund show this, 9.5 million
people gained health coverage in the first marketplace enrollment period.
Why are therefore the Republicans still trying to make this a barren (ph)

what? I think John Boehner would do better just by trying to sue the
President for having a pretty wife or having two children because the
outcome is going to be the same. We know that in history there`s really
been not president, for Congress to sue the president for not executing the

He`ll lose in the first round of federal court, that`s over. But we know
that. The uninsured rate right now for age 19 to 34 is down from 28
percent to 18 percent. I see new patients coming in to my office everyday
saying that they had not been to the doctor for 10 years, and now they`re
actually getting healthcare.

You know what that means? That`s good for everybody because that`s means
they`re not going to be in the emergency room, that means they`re going to
get preventive healthcare, that means they`re not going to be on the rolls
trying to get, you know, these exorbitant surgeries because of not taking
of themselves.

So, it`s all a political ploy that we`ve seen once again, over and over and
over. They will not win and Obamacare will reign supreme.

DYSON: Well, John the border crisis dominate the headlines this week. So,
are they trying to bait and switch here?

impeachment light. But I do have to say a little bit poll that you two
brilliant gentleman both of whom I worked with, they`re tying to use logic
when discussing John Boehner. These are the people who say Obama is
Neville Chamberlain and Hitler which means he`s trying to appease himself.

But, I got to point out, there`s one thing that is being missed here. This
is all about John Boehner trying to desperately and cravenly to make the
Tea Party like him.

DYSON: Yeah.

FUGELSANG: That is all of this about. Let`s not forget, after the 2012
election, Louie Gohmert himself voted for Allen West...

DYSON: Right.

FUGELSANG: be speaker of the House, after he left Congress. And
Allen West to crazy (inaudible) itself, John Boehner knows how deeply the
Tea Party despises him. He does about as much work of the day as the human
appendix. He`s sort of like Frank Underwood from House of Cards if Frank
Underwood did nothing.

And this is all just him trying to make these people like him. It will
never work, if John Boehner led, the Tea Party still wouldn`t like him, but
they would respect him. This is like theater except the actual theater
creates jobs.

DYSON: Right. So, Dr. Hebert, the lawsuit is likely to draw into the fall
closer to midterm elections. Can Democrats use this to their advantage,
the theater aside?

HEBERT: Oh absolutely because, the commonwealth report that you mentioned
earlier, remember I just bring the facts. It showed 74 percent of all
newly insured Republicans, Republicans are happy with Obamacare, the
Affordable Care Act. So, it`s going to play right into the Democratic

So, all we have to do is keep our (ph) noses clean so we don`t put our foot
(ph) in our mouth to do something that we will regret. Because we know
that, really -- we just need the Medicaid expansion, we need the States to
accept it, because in this country where 37 percent of all minority -- of
the country is minority...

DYSON: Right.

HEBERT: ...37 percent and 77 percent of all preventable death is that same
minority population. So, we got to something because that Medicaid
expansion is the key for this Obamacare thing to work...

DYSON: Well...

HEBERT:`s a key.

DYSON: ...absolutely. You`re the town prior but you (inaudible).

FUGELSANG: Well yeah. I did, and I agree with agree with Dr. Corey and
just about everything. Especially the Medicaid expansion, how you`re going
to say you`re a Christian and you`re going to deny healthcare, free care to
the people in your State who need.

But, what I do think is, this is going to not necessarily going to be
enough to help the Democrats in the midterm elections. There`s a lot of
capital to be gaining from this, but so far the President is only one I see
whose really fighting. I want to know why Democrats in the Senate aren`t
coming out and calling the GOP socialist.

DYSON: Yeah.

FUGELSANG: Because, let`s be frank about this. This is not single payer.
This is the Republican plan, conceived by Republican think tank,
implemented by Republican Governor in Massachusetts, upheld by a Republican
Supreme Court. And they`re terrified now. It`s going to start saving
Republicans lives.

Their alternative is to do nothing, which means local tax payers still pick
up the tab when uninsured folks show up the E.R. That`s socialism that
what our GOP friends are fighting for. And I`d like us a few Democrats
call them out on it.

DYSON: Yeah. Dr. Hebert, given that kind of socialist reinterpretation of
the documents of the Republicans, do you think Republicans, think trying to
get bring attention back to the healthcare law will pay off for them at
least this time around?

HEBERT: Yeah, I think they do because, you know, we`re going to have a
second rollout. And let`s be very clear, the second rollout is going to be
a lot more difficult than the first rollout because, you know, fear of the
known is much less than fear of the unknown, you know, what I mean?

DYSON: I do.

HEBERT: So, you know, it`s going to be a hard second rollout because
they`re going to be able to nitpick. Every little thing that didn`t go
right with the initial rollout, but just to -- we got to remember that 60
percent of all of new coverage has -- the people that gotten their
coverage, 60 percent of them have been to the doctor.

So, that means everything to me, they didn`t go before and 60 percent of
them have gone to the doctor already. So, that means it`s better for us,
you know...

DYSON: Right.

HEBERT: ...but they`re going to try to nitpick the whole thing.

DYSON: All right. John, is it really fundamentally, the fact that they`re
addicted to obstruction. Maybe that`s the psychotherapy that they need on
the cough to lay down and get psychoanalyzed, the mix metaphor is there, to
figure out what`s going on with the Republican psych.

Why is it they`re against something that can before (ph) so many people
especially their own constituents?

FUGELSANG: Well, exactly. I mean, you think, you know, if you really care
about capitalism...

DYSON: Right.

FUGELSANG: ...if you really care about -- if you`re afraid of a public
auction and competition then stop calling yourself capitalist. If you
don`t want to help the sick, stop calling yourself Christian. And if you
don`t want to save American lives stop calling yourself patriots.

DYSON: Yeah.

FUGELSANG: I think what the president`s up against right now is a party
that at war with itself and I do think there`s a great chance here for the
President to step in and remind the American people especially socially
conservative Republican voters. These guys shutdown the government and
cost you billions.

DYSON: Yeah.

FUGELSANG: These guys had over 50 attempts to repeal this. And now a
lawsuit we all know is not going anywhere. If you`re not a millionaire,
why are you still supporting the GOP? And I don`t call it Obamacare, I
think if you`re going to call it Obamacare, we should call Social Security
FDR care, call Medicare LBJ care, and tax cuts for guys who don`t need tax
cuts W care. I like to see them shift the language quite a bit on this.

DYSON: Yeah, but I think the President doesn`t mind because he wants to
reinforce the fact that he does care. I do care for you, I do love you, I
do embrace. So, I don`t think Obama is opposed to that at all.

FUGELSANG: Oh, he`s classier than I am.

DYSON: But you`re still class, so you got tuition to pay. But look, the
reality is, Dr. Hebert, you`re on the ground, you`re a doctor, you`re a
physician besides of being a professor. What do you see in terms of the
impact of Obamacare`s law on those who are most vulnerable and those who
need healthcare the most?

HEBERT: Well, you see, this is the bigger problem because, you know,
doctors have to be altruistic for a long time now to make sure that the
people who don`t have care get it. And the people that are poor get the
care that they need. And so, what we found is that, once we, you know,
opened up the rolls and let people, you know, enroll so they can actually
get healthcare, they are ecstatic.

Because, they understand that they can prevent healthcare -- I mean,
prevent the illnesses that are really causing problems not just in their
health but actually causing problems in their lives. You have to remember,
if you`re unhealthy you can`t go to work. If you`re unhealthy you can`t
earn money for your family.

If you have a toothache, you can`t go to work and you have to go the
dentist, you can`t afford it. All these things play into the issue of us
having a -- or great country and being able to thrive. And so, all these
things, you know, people that are not on the ground don`t sometimes
understand the ramifications of you not feeling well.

DYSON: Right.

HEBERT: When you get a cancer and not being able to pay for your
healthcare and then happens then you bankrupt? You know, people that
aren`t on the ground, they don`t understand that. And that`s what I`m
trying to get through to our Senate and our Congress right now.

You know, all the way through United States and in our local areas.

DYSON: All right, the head of the class John Fugelsang and Dr. Corey
Hebert, thank you so much for your time and insight tonight.

HEBERT: Thank you.

DYSON: Have a great weekend.

HEBERT: Nice to see you guys.

DYSON: Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the
screen and share your thoughts on Twitter@edshow. And on Facebook, we
really want to know what you think.

Coming up, King James reclaims his throne in Cleveland despite Dan Gilbert
not because of Dan Gilbert. Rapid response will weight in.

But first, Ben Collins is a person, Jerry Greenfield is a person. They
want you to know they`re corporation Ben and Jerry is not a person.
Hopefully you brought some ice-cream.

Trenders is next.


DYSON: Time now for the Trenders. Keep in touch with us on twitter@edshow
and on Facebook. And you can find me on twitter@michaeledyson.

The Ed Show Social Media Nation is decided and we`re reporting.

Here today`s top Trenders voted on by you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number three Trender, Texas takeout.

OBAMA: I love Austin, I love the people, I love barbecue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president made a post-speech stop at Franklin`s

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to get inline.

OBAMA: I love you (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Obama picks up the tab at an Austin barbecue

OBAMA: (Inaudible) we`re glad to have it and make the (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Owner Stacy Franklin says the barbecue legend got about
half hour notice they would soon be serving the President.

He walked out with about $300 worth of barbecue.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number two Trender, Berney`s story.

MATT MORENO, AMERICAN PERSONALITY: Remember when president Obama made that
hilarious appearance on Funny or Die Between Two Ferns?

OBAMA: Have you heard of


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let`s get this out away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That the (inaudible) plugging of may
have helped the government program search for it`s seven million enrollees

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But wait, there`s more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obama`s appearance earned between two ferns and Emmy

OBAMA: When I heard that -- like people actually watch the show I was
actually pretty surprise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While only the executive producers were nominated, if
the President were it could have been his third entertainment award.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a nominator.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And today`s top Trender, people power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 14th amendments left out the word natural before
the word person. Corporations use that vaguely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Corporations are people my friend?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re now a super person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Hobby Lobby case renews the fight against corporate

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They ruled that like the rest of us, corporations have
a right to exercise their religion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most famous use of corporate personhood was Citizens
United it which open the door to corporate people, spending a lot of money
to sway elections.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyday corporations are and also when it goes to

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not to be used for bribing politicians.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Corporate personhood is no longer a laughing matter.


DYSON: Joining me now is Ben Cohen, Co-founder of Ben & Jerry`s. So,
Brother Ben, was the Hobby Lobby decision a sign that the Court is moving
in the wrong direction when it comes to corporate personhood?

BEN COHEN, CO-FOUNDER, BEN & JERRY`S: Well, you know, Michael a lot of us
have been wanting corporations to get religion for a long time but, this
isn`t exactly what we had in mind.

Yeah, I think this is a horrible President that the Court has set. And,
you know, I mean when the founding fathers talked about endowed by our
creator was certain unalienable rights. Believe me that it did not have
corporations in mind.

DYSON: Yeah. I agree with you on that. So, you`re the owner of a
corporation. Do you think it should be treated as a human being?

COHEN: Absolutely not.


COHEN: Corporation is a legal construct. It has no resemblance to a human

DYSON: Yeah. So, you know, what do you think is behind the kind if
intense push to humanize corporations? We want them to be humanized in
terms of their treatment of their constituents and their clients and their
employees but what is do you think the real pushed to kind to make them
human beings?

COHEN: Well, I think corporations would like to have all those rights that
are in the Bill of Rights. They would like to have all the freedoms that
people have but, you know, what we need to remember is that a corporation
being -- being a corporation is not a right. Being a corporation is a

DYSON: Right.

COHEN: And corporations are chartered by the state. And they`re chartered
to exist for the public good. And, you know, there -- but the reality is
that corporations are just interested in maximizing how much money they
get, their profits and that`s not the type of animal that you would want to
give all those rights to.

DYSON: Absolutely right. It`s a fine philosophical argument for those who
are not versed on such distinctions.

What is that thing in front of you right there? What do you have that
contraption right in front of you?

COHEN: Well, you know, I ran the Stamp Stampede. This is a project, stamp
money out of politics and this is how it works. We use paper currency to
essentially send the message and a protest. And this stamp says,
"Corporations are not people."

DYSON: Right, right.

COHEN: And, you know, since this Hobby Lobby ruling we`ve kind of been
swamped with people wanting to get these stamps to make their voice heard
on currency. You know, I mean, is if the Supreme Court has ruled money as
free speech, let`s use our free speech rights to decorate our dollars.

And this is actually a petition on steroids, you know, when you stamp the
dollar bill, every dollar bill is seen by 875 people. So, it`s an amazing
way to make your voice heard.

DYSON: Yeah, it`s a free advertisement at the same time so to speak. So,
what can average citizens do to get corporate money out of politics?

COHEN: Well, I think what we need is a constitutional amendment that makes
it very clear that corporations are not people, and money is free speech.
And by having that amendment, that`s the way that we can get money out of
politics and we can, you know, and once and for all, this idea that
corporations have all the same rights as people.

DYSON: All right. Ben Cohen.

COHEN: I mean, it`s interesting when you talk to a lawyer about
corporations being people, they call it a legal fiction and that`s exactly
what it is.

DYSON: Yeah, excellent use of the legal theory against those who have
deployed for -- in the fairy`s hands.

One further question, can you hook a brother up with some ice cream so when
I going to the Ben & Jerry`s, you know, Michael Eric Dyson`s lobby is right
there, that`ll be good.

COHEN: You know, I`ll tell you what. Not just for you but for your
viewers. The next hundred viewers that go to the site
and get themselves a stamp money out of politics stamp.

I`m going to throw in a free pint coupon good at your local supermarket and
I`m going to flow in, too for you Michael.

DYSON: Thank you Ben. It sounds good men. You may not be a corporation
but you`re a hell of a human being.

Thank you so much for joining us here tonight.

All right.

Still ahead, the President enlisted new allies, tempers flare over the
border crisis. The Rapid Response Panel weighs in.

Plus Saul Williams joins me to discuss the intersection of art and reality
in the Broadway show, Holler If Ya Hear Me.

But next, I`m taking your questions Ask MED Live is just ahead. Stay tune.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. We love hearing from our viewers.

Tonight in Ask MED Live, our question is from Thomas. "Can US citizens sue
John Boehner for not doing his job?" Don`t I wish.

I think one of the ways we can sue John Boehner for not doing his job is
not voting for him. I think one of the most effective ways we can express
and articulate our outrage, our disgruntlement, and our dissatisfaction
with the poor job that I think John Boehner is doing, is not to elect him
next time around.

Look at what happened to Eric Cantor. You know, he even taking the staff
for granted that hey you`re riding high one day but the next day not so
high. One day you can be in Miami, the next day you can be in Ohio.

There is change of foot and you can register your opinion by voting him
out. That`s close as close to I think to a suit as we can get.

Our next question is from Chris. Speaking of which, "What do you think
about Labron returning to the Cleveland Cavaliers?" You know what? I
think it`s a remarkable turn around.

Now, let me get this out first. Dan Gilbert is shameful. The letter he
had posted on his website until a couple of days ago shows that he is not
sincere, it has changed affection toward Labron. It`s merely utilitarian.
I got to get Labron back here, I`ve got to show that I`ve change my mind.
I`d love to see Dan Gilbert apologize.

Now, having said that Labron is proven to be the bigger man. Here is a man
who overcame the nastiness and the fussiness of this boss of his that is
Dan Gilbert, the owner of the team. But he said to Cleveland, I understand
that if I were in your position and I was a fan of an athlete and he
changed my life and he left, I`d be disappointed too.

So, Labron has proved to be the bigger man. He`s a Christian. He talks
about forgiveness, he talks about faith, he talks about loyalty, he talks
about his family, he talks about being a better man, he talks about being a
better parent, he is an extraordinary figure.

So not only he is an athletic genius on the court, he proves to be a
superior human being off the court as well. And I say to the Cleveland
Cavaliers, go get it. Labron I hope you get a championship and to get your
chip after Kobe Bryant retires.

Stick around, the Rapid Response Panel is next.

Market Wrap. A stock finish higher after trading in and out of negative
territory from months to day. The Dow ending the day of 28 point, the S&P
at nearly 3 points, the Nasdaq gains 19 points.

Wells Fargo the biggest and largest mortgage lender in the U.S. reported
earnings that made estimates. Revenue came in slightly better than
expected. And economists lower their growth forecasts for the second
quarter to 3 percent for 3.5 but they don`t expect the U.S. to fall into
recession this year or next.

That`s it from CNBC, first in business, worldwide.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. As more children reach border patrol
stations, resources and patience are dwindling. Communities by the border
are divided on how to respond. Some residential working with the church,
looking for ways to provide material and spiritual care for the families
being processed. Others are putting their faith in newly form civilian
militias, who`s leader say, they`re prepared to provide the manpower to
secure the border.

The interim sheriff Hidalgo County, Texas, explained why he believes
militias are heading to the area.


EDDIE GUERRA: This whole influx of unaccompanied miners and the family
units, you know, has drawn so much media attention. I think the message
that is getting out there is that we`re having this invasion of people
coming into this country. And, you know, it`s absolutely not -- that`s not


DYSON: Well it might have something to do with media attention like this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This border peak of special inter salience, which are
other Mexican aliens to have links and ties or that country has links and
ties territorialization (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In this new entity of the Islamic state is a great
concern in using the border to penetrate in here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the President, it`s not a problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, this is not a problem. He`s OK with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once Houston Texas suburb, League City putting it`s
foot down, they passed a law that would ban any facility from processing
illegals, including children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open the stall up of them, really? Is that right? Do
anybody thin that right? It`s not right. Now billions of dollars want to
be borrow from the White House to help feed and house them. What about the
(inaudible) kids here in our neighborhood, in our country? Not just in
this neighborhood but in our country.


DYSON: Joining me now as our Rapid Response Panel, Professor Mark Anthony
Neal of Duke University, Monica Miller of Lehigh University and Dr. Obery
Hendricks of Columbia University.

Professor Neal, what is the long-term effect of this kind of ramp up
rhetoric going? You know, what is impact on immigration policy? How can
we combat the misinformation, especially the tension between blacks and

important here Michael is that, you know, the conditions of children,
regardless of their origins can not bee seen as some sort of National
Security, Homeland Security issue. I give the Obama administration credit
for giving -- putting the face of American humanity for their bringing the
catholic church to kind of tap down the rhetoric that we`re hearing about
what`s going on. If for me, you know, the larger questions is always, what
kind of policy? What kind of U.S., hemispheric policies are destabilizing
some of these nations that really create the condition where kids have no
other choice to risk life and limb and everything else ...

DYSON: Right.

NEAL: ... in order to come across these borders?

DYSON: All right. Professor Hendricks, how can politicians who often
profess their faith and not see this is a humanitarian or spiritual crisis,
what`s the biblical consequence or at least the biblical ethical position

Dr. OBERY HENDRICKS, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Well this is terrible, they are
so far off, I mean it`s so anti-biblical, anti-Christian. You know, and he
who by who want a basic ethics is to give hospitality to the stranger, to
the immigrant stranger. They overlook that, they overlook the good
Samaritan probably, overlook "love your neighbors as yourself" and that`s
because this is libertarian right. Has it all confuse, thinking that the
biblical ethic is about freedom and the liberty when it`s really more about
responsibility for your neighbors.

So they are the -- and what kills me, these militias calling themselves
Christians and then -- what kind of Christians spit at children and yell at
children and threaten children and they call themselves some kind of
Christian? It`s terrible, it`s horrendous.

DYSON: Right. Dr. Miller, picking up on what Dr. Hendricks talk about
there, dealing within the kind of faith consequences of this activity, what
do you make of the militia activity taking place on the border there? And
what kind of Christian or at least religious implications is out there?

Dr. MONICA MILLER LEHIGH UNIVERSITY: It`s extremely scary. You know, one
of the things for me, religion and the space of the church, it can cut in a
variety of ways. I mean, I think, you know, what Obrey just said is
exactly right. What we have to keep in mind and I think what we have to
keep at the forefront of the conversation is the long history that religion
and theology and religious rhetoric has even played into what we`re
experiencing now.

So precisely the turn to the church, right, this turn to the catholic
church is a space for help, I think we have to recognize that tradition, we
have to recognize that history but we also have to recognize the large
dangers that have come with, you know, leaning on religion and theology.
And I think it can cut in two ways, it`s a little bit scary. I mean help
is good but as long as the church doesn`t start proselytizing (ph), I think

DYSON: Yeah. Right.

MILLER: ... we`ll be OK.

DYSON: OK, I want you to take and listen to what Karl Rove had to say
about the issue.


difference between Bush and Obama is President Bush went to New Orleans
within several days after the crisis begin, President Obama has yet to go
to this -- to the border. The power of the President of the United States
standing in the Rio Grande River and saying to the people of Central
America, "Do not send your children here. Do not send them on this
dangerous and expensive journey because if they`re able to live through
this journey, we will catch them and we will return them and all will be
for nothing. So don`t even try."

That be a powerful message.


DYSON: Goodness, gracious. 10 second of peace of round robin. Starting
with you Professor Neal.

NEAL: It`s pure theater. Right, George Bush was down there in Katrina
(ph) after basically neglecting the folks down there for days and it was
pure theater. And I think the President has invest, you know, he`s not
going to play into those kind of politics.

DYSON: All right, Professor Hendricks.

HENDRICKS: Yeah, I mean I agree, it`s just -- these ideological Christians
are keep pushing on, the create Christianity with their own interest, so
they can make any excuse for anything that they want to do. And Karl Rove
should be ashamed of himself.

DYSON: Right.

HENDRICKS: You don`t just send children like that about. You don`t talk
about sending children back like they`re some kind of package or some of

DYSON: Right, right. Dr. Miller.

MILLER: Absolutely insane, I mean, so I think one of the things that we
have to keep in mind is that we as a nation, you know, as a culture, we
have really yet to fully embrace Obama as fully documented, right? So the
way that you know, phobia and religious fundamentalism and this religious
rhetoric, I think that we have to really keep intersectionality and gender
and class and capitalism and advance capitalism.


MILLER: We have to keep all of these things while also recognizing, we
have groups and demographics of people right here in the United States,
South side of Chicago that we have yet to even recognize ...

DYSON: Right.

MILLER: ... they`re eligible, right? So I think that we have to be really
cautious with the conversation and also keep in mind just how multi facet
it, how intersectional, how complex these questions are. But the religious
fundamentalist and ...

DYSON: Sure.

MILLER: ... they`re extremely scary.

DYSON: All right let`s take a slight turn here, still want to talk about
the social implication of a monumental event. But this event is Labron
James`s decamping from Miami and heading back home to Cleveland. Beyond
the majestic and magnificent athletic consequences, there are more social
and cultural consequences.

Professor Neal, tell us about, you know, the implications for parenting
that Labron`s decision made today.

NEAL: Well let me just drop in there first, I`m happy because he`s point
guard now is Dukee (ph) and Kyrie Irving, you know, so we`re happy down
here in doing ...

DYSON: I can`t hear you, I can`t hear you.

NEAL: ... and Kyrie Irving connecting together. And I kind of wish, you
know, the Cavalries have drafter Jabari Parker instead of Wiggins, but, you
know, that`s for another day.

DYSON: Right, your time is up.

NEAL: But, you know, the thing about Labron James is brand. You know,
when you go back to those Samsung commercials, he`s always made clear that
his family was part of his brand. And there`s no way to replace what it
means to be on the roll all the time, as a professional basketball player
but to be able to get up in the morning when you`re home and be able to
drive you`re children to school.

DYSON: All right, that`s a big deal.

NEAL: That`s a kind of moment that, you know, you can`t replace that, no
matter how much money you make, how much prestige you make ...

DYSON: All right.

NEAL: ... and how much prestige you have. So Labron, you know, he weighed
on family in this regard, to be able to have extended family, to be able to
have this mother around, to be able to have close friends, not just folks
who are hanging on. You know, Helping him raise his family and bring them

DYSON: Brilliant point. Let`s get Professor Hendricks in right quick.
What do you think about the kind of faith consequences, this document was
religious in many ways that he posted on Tell us
what you think.

HENDRICKS: Well, you know, he took a high road, he spoke of forgiveness,
he spoke about the importance of community, you know, he spoke about his
responsibility to community. In that sense, it was fully consistent with
biblical ethics, which is about responsibility to community, responsibility
for family and also love and forgiveness. I think he sees -- he`s a
(inaudible) of figure here and he use to be really applauded for taking
this high road do publicly.

DYSON: Dr. Miller, what, you know, you`re a well-known, you know,
theological interpreter of the culture and religious sensibilities. What
stands out to you here?

MILLER: So many things. I mean, first of, I just think that, you know,
his letter was incredibly courageous, right, he`s not just concerned with
the craft and with the sport and with winning. But as it`s already been
articulating, he`s got family on his mind, he`s got children right on his
mind. And he also has this imagination, he`s interested in sort of being a
social entrepreneur, right? He`s got so many things, maybe even a little
more politicize but all of it took place underneath this sort of strategic
use of theology and religion, he talks a lot about home, and his right.

It`s interesting that we`re even having this conversation about
immigration, I mean the concept of home, those that are here, those that
want to be here, undocumented, right? Really knowing where to go and
having yet no where to go, right? So he, you know, in the midst of this
sort of national crisis that we find ourselves in ...

DYSON: Right.

MILLER: ... you know, he`s going to back home, he`s talking like his the
prodigal son, coming out of exile, having, you know, sort of learn
something. And so I think, you know, beyond sports and beyond the craft,
he`s got something much bigger in mind and it will be very interesting to
really watch it all unfold.

DYSON: The man just pass the hat. Let`s pass the hat after that sermon.
Let`s pass the hat. We`ll talk hooping (ph) up in here.

Professor Mark Anthony Neal, Professor Monica Miller and Professor Obery
Hendricks, thank you so much for your time.

MILLER: Thank you.

DYSON: Coming up, a clueless role model inspires the next generation of
conservatives. Pretenders is next. Stick around.


DYSON: In Pretenders tonight, Fox News`s clueless contributor Stacey Dash.
On Wednesday the actress turn conservative commentator joined the folks on
the second string Curvy Couch over it out numbered. The panel worries that
America`s youth is doomed to the next generation of dependent liberals.

Dash was here to reassure them otherwise.


STACEY DASH: My son is going to be 24 on Friday, happy birthday. And he
is now a conservative and he says to me, "Mom, most of my friends are
conservative, we`re capitalist, we want to keep our money."


DYSON: But Dash didn`t stop there. As if. Dash went on to reveal she`s
already teaching her 11 year old Republican, a debate staple. When you
have nothing else to stand on, you can always resort to Ad Hominem attacks
on the President like the Republicans do.


DASH: And my 11 year old is a conservative as well, because she has
traditions. You know, there are things that she believes in that I hopes
I`ve had some input on. And you know, she has referred to the President as
Gollum. And I think that`s very clever for an 11 year old.


DYSON: The saying goes, children are great imitators, so give them
something great to imitate. If Stacey Dash thinks name calling is clever
conservatism, she keep on pretending.


DYSON: Welcome back to the Ed Show. Over the fourth of July weekend, 82
people were shot in Chicago, during an 84 stretch of time, 16 of them died.
The appalling numbers climb throughout the week. On Monday night, at least
nine more people fell victim to gun violence in the city.

For one 19 year old woman, the shooting was fatal. On Tuesday a man was
shot and killed in Chicago subside, just days before his college
graduation. A pregnant mother of five was shot to death Wednesday morning
on a Chicago express way.

As national attention focuses on the President`s $3.7 billion request from
congress to aid immigrant children detained at the border.

Critics have ask why congress isn`t pushed to act similarly to help the
American youth and crisis as well. And Chicago`s communities seek answers
and solutions to the heinous wave of violence, I want to look at one of the
most notable figures to address the widespread struggles with street
violence, Tupac Shakur.

A new musical Holler If YA Hear Me, infuses Tupac to music and poetry into
a powerful message about the roots and possible solutions to home grown
warfare. The musical takes the struggle of the street to the stage. The
key in Tupac`s examination is its breath.

Community violence is not the soul struggle of a few blacks, we need to
take ownership of the struggle as a nation. Here with us now is a
remarkable musician, poet and star of Holler If YA Hear Me, Saul Williams.
Brother Williams thank you so much for joining us.

SAUL WILLIAMS, ACTOR. HOLLER IF YA HEAR ME: It such an honor to be here
with you today.

DYSON: Listen here man, I came to se that performance and it was

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

DYSON: You know, you`ve worked as an activist, you supported to occupy
movement, you spoke out against the war on terror. So give us your
thoughts on, you know, the state of youth now and the extraordinary
violence that our young people are faced with on a daily basis.

WILLIAMS: Well, I mean I think it has a lot to do with just, you know, the
disfranchise youth of this nation and the home grown sense of abandonment
that, you know, kids feel they have no choices and in Holler If Ya Hear Me
for example, it`s a play where we`re addressing this questions of how do we
stop it, how do we stop the cycles of violence, because it`s been going on
for a long time.

It`s not only in the urban areas, it`s in the suburbs as well. It takes a
different, you know, face in the suburbs. It`s the same thing. And our
relationship to guns, our relationship to violence, our relationship to
ourselves and to finance.

DYSON: Yes, yes.

WILLIAMS: And, you know, and that, you know, hand to mouth reality brings
about certain circumstances that we have to find a solution for. And if
schools are not there for that, if the police are only there and, you know,
are there instead of the schools ...

DYSON: Right, right. That`s a huge obstacle. Because when you think
about it, especially in urban America, Niger resources declining
participation in the employment sector there, a lot of young people have
never work, will never work for a while. When you think about the
extraordinary density of violence in this neighborhoods and how people have
stacked up on one another. What, you know, what`s the role of art and at
least highlighting and underscoring the vicious character of that
(inaudible) situation for young people?

WILLIAMS: Well I think art is there often times to spark the imagination
to offer solutions that perhaps, you know, kids short on solution may not
be able to find in the urgency at the moment, but when they sit back and
watch something or listen to something, they can imagine the different
possibility and alternative and that`s what we`re doing in our play. For
example, we`re offering an alternative. It`s the same thing in Slam.

You know, in my first film Slam ...


WILLIAMS: ... where, you know, I`m in a prison and people are gathering
about to attack and I recite a poet and it stops the violence. Then the
other a kid outside who was selling his CD outside of Time Square, stop me
and said, "Yo, I want in (inaudible). And I was about to get a tag and
remembered Slam and I started rapping and it didn`t happen, I want to thank

And it`s the same sort of thing. It`s the same sort of thing that we get,
you know, in -- through all the arts, is that we offer alternatives or we
can. Not every artist takes advantage of that, you know, ...

DYSON: Exactly.

WILLIAMS: ... potential of the stage that art offers. Some feed to it,
some conform to, you know, what`s out there. But Tupac was someone, I
think who really was exploring the role of art, the role of empowerment.
He realized that, you know, art was a vehicle for him to say things that,
you know, counter, you know, the injustices that we face, that he saw his
family face.

DYSON: Right.

WILLIAMS: And he spoke up through art and, you know, ...

DYSON: That`s right.

WILLIAMS: ... I mean it`s good, it`s a legacy.

DYSON: And so does this man right here. Genius is an overuse word. This
brother right here, Saul Williams, is a genius. Thank you so much sir for
joining us, (inaudible).

That`s the Ed Show. I`m Michael Eric Dyson in for Ed Shultz. Politics
Nation with the Reverend Al Sharpton, starts right now.

Good evening Rev.


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